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26 Apr 13 - 07:20 AM (#3509082) Subject: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw As an utterly biased Liverpool supporter I am naturally disgusted by the extremely harsh treatment of the sublime Luis Suarez. A ten-match ban? Why, players who have broken other players' legs with cynical high tackles have got away with much less. Players who have head-butted other players have got away with less. Yeah, he's an immature twat for biting Ivanovic (I support Chelsea as well as it happens - an extended family thang), but Ivanovic is virtually unmarked and was back in training the next day. And, of course, we had the much bigger twat Cameron wading in with his two and bloody fourpence! Now that I have the tirade of intemperate contumely out of the way, down to the serious business. What the hell is all this "role model" stuff? The phrase is brainlessly trotted out all the time without so much as a single neurone applied to its usage. Everyone's a bloody "role model". Your teacher's a role model. Your dad's a role model. The boy scout bloke's a role model. Pop singers are role models. Footballers are role models. The vicar's a role model. Jesus was a role model. I'll tell you what, with all these role models it's hardly surprising that kids get all confused. We don't need role models. We need to tell children how to sort out good from bad, that's what we need. We need the lad watching the Liverpool-Chelsea game to admire Suarez for his stunning goal yet condemn him for the bite. You can do both. I think it's a very bad idea for your kids to go around being influenced by "role models" instead of thinking for themselves. The world is not black and white. A well brought up kid can judge actions for him or herself, not rely on the influence of "role models". Suarez is a footballer. The only thing about him that should influence your lad is his technical and tactical skills, and you should be telling your lad that. Suarez's life skills are not what puts him in the public eye. Putting people on pedestals as role models is one more pressure for those people that they don't need (in any case, like Suarez, they're far too immature to live up to it). John Terry didn't get banned for shagging his best mate's wife, and what kind of role model is that? Cameron left his eight-year-old kid in a pub by accident. Great role model there, bollocking a footballer for being a bad role model! Next time you find yourself tempted to declare that so-and-so is a great role model, stop first to ask yourself whether you're actually using your brain. Sheesh and discuss! |
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26 Apr 13 - 07:35 AM (#3509085) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Keith A of Hertford He grabbed someone's arm and bit it! Normal people do not do that. Ok, so it did little damage, but he bit someone! |
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26 Apr 13 - 07:44 AM (#3509088) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Expert Fiddler Oh..... I thought you were going to talk about Rolf. |
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26 Apr 13 - 07:49 AM (#3509090) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome I agree, Steve. It's all part of the 'blame culture'. "Oh look - Our lovely little Chardonnay has bitten Billy's ear off. Must have got that from watching Liverpool. Nothing to do with my perfect parenting skills..." Maybe when parents accept that their little darlings occasionally do things wrong and need to be chastised they may not need to place the responsibility with someone else. Fat chance, sadly. Cheers DtG |
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26 Apr 13 - 07:50 AM (#3509091) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Thanks to the man with a degree in Plain As The Nose On Your Face obtained at the University Of The Bleedin' Obvious in Hertford. |
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26 Apr 13 - 07:54 AM (#3509092) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor Rolf 'arris. Now that is funny. Put a ball in 'is mouth mate He'll be a role model then Just like Willis in Pulp (fiction) Put a gag in his mouth. Ball Gag |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:09 AM (#3509097) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Richard Bridge I am getting very worried. I ahve recently agreed with MtheGM and Mither, and here I am agreeing with Keith! |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:34 AM (#3509105) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Keith A of Hertford Don't fight it Richard. |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:41 AM (#3509106) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Musket In terms of my street credibility and my ability to look myself in the mirror, don't keep publicising the fact Bridge.... |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:48 AM (#3509110) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor I don't find it surprising that many of us disagree in principle with a highly paid professional biting another man on the arm. |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:50 AM (#3509111) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Pete Jennings Suarez is a jerk, but ten matches is a knee-jerk. |
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26 Apr 13 - 08:56 AM (#3509114) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Les from Hull A ten match ban is over the top, but we have seen these extended bans increase to no real effect. Perhaps it should be a standard clause in a footballer's contract that the club don't pay him for the period of the ban. Cameron has no right sounding off though. He's no role model. Greed and selfishness are just plain evil. |
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26 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM (#3509132) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22304322 LOL LOL Doesn't Cameron have something better to do than abusing his influence by speaking "as a dad watching the game? If he were a good role model wouldn't he at least speak officially as Prime Minister or better yet, DO HIS OWN JOB and keep his nose out of regulating football? "I made my own views clear, just as a dad watching the game," LOL LOL |
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26 Apr 13 - 10:20 AM (#3509145) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Musket, what shall I do? I am in extremely severe danger of agreeing with Jack on a point... |
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26 Apr 13 - 10:31 AM (#3509147) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor I have to say Steve, I thought that you were being over the top before I looked it up on the BBC. Your point about Cameron was well ranted and proportional. Cameron seems like a tool of W. Bush proportions. Though I do somewhat disagree on your other point. I can't complain about the suspension. I think that there is no place for biting the opponent in any sport. What was Luis thinking? Was he bit by a rage-infested monkey? |
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26 Apr 13 - 10:47 AM (#3509160) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw I make no excuses for the man. He has a sublime talent, one of the few world-class players in England, but he does idiotic things quite frequently. Basically, do not go around biting people, yeah? But the ban is out of all proportion. Others footballers have ended other players' careers with terrible fouls and suffered far lesser consequences. Biting someone, no matter how gently, is egregiously awful. But the bloke is, it seems, being given an overly severe punishment, not so much for what he did but for who is and because a couple of brainless politicians have waded in quite improperly. The FA is stupid enough with their help. |
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26 Apr 13 - 10:50 AM (#3509162) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw who he is |
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26 Apr 13 - 11:06 AM (#3509175) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Kenny B (inactive) Oh how times have changed! The limelight has been replaced by the media Spotlight , they make players and break players as their "concience" or bank balance goes up or down. Willie Woodburn Glasgow Rangers 1938 - 1954 "In 1947 he received a 14-day ban for a "violent exchange" with Motherwell's Dave Mathie, then in 1953 he punched the Clyde striker Billy McPhail, which earned a 21-day ban. Later that year, Woodburn was sent off for retaliation in a match with Stirling Albion. The clubs met again, the following season, in a League Cup tie at Ibrox on 28 August 1954. Playing with a knee injury, Woodburn took exception to a bad foul and retaliated by headbutting a Stirling player. The SFA convened a disciplinary hearing the following month, which lasted just four minutes, and Woodburn was suspended sine die. The England international Tom Finney, one of many well-known forwards Woodburn had encountered in his international career, described the ban as "a grave injustice". The SFA revoked their punishment three years later, but by then Woodburn was 37 and his playing career was over. |
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26 Apr 13 - 11:13 AM (#3509182) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor I think you can aggressively tackle and credibly claim that the injury was an accident. Teethmarks are clear evidence of intent and immaturity IMHO. |
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26 Apr 13 - 01:45 PM (#3509263) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Dunno how much footie you watch, Jack, but you'll see players deliberately stamping on other players when they're down, cynical "professional" fouls to stop direct scoring chances, elbows thrust into faces and double-footed studs-up tackles that are absolutely not accidental. In the old days and in lower leagues you get away with it. With 25 video cameras all the field in a big game you're going to get seen, even if the ref misses it. Ah, did someone just mention the sublime Tom Finney, still going strong in his 90s...the Preston Plumber... Was he the greatest of all time, or was that my boyhood hero Jimmy McIlroy of Burnley? Now there's a man who could have been a role model, had there been such a thing! |
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26 Apr 13 - 01:50 PM (#3509265) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Often wonder how long Norman Hunter would last with today's referees. Of course, it was on our hallowed turf that Di Canio, wearing a Wednesday shirt pushed the referee to the ground. I supported him and made excuses so not easy being judgemental in this case. |
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26 Apr 13 - 02:00 PM (#3509271) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Did Norman ever actually bite anyone's leg? I could always write to Notes & Queries in the Grauniad... |
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26 Apr 13 - 02:07 PM (#3509278) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Heheh. Just found this on wiki about Norman Hunter. His nickname "Bites yer legs" stemmed from his strength in the tackle. When Hunter himself suffered a broken leg, club trainer Les Cocker was informed that "Hunter had broken a leg" and responded with "whose is it?" |
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26 Apr 13 - 02:12 PM (#3509282) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor "cynical "professional" fouls to stop direct scoring chances, elbows thrust into faces and double-footed studs-up tackles that are absolutely not accidental. " I said that they could claim that the INJURIES were accidental. "I hit him to keep him from scoring but I didn't mean to injure him." Teeth marks are proof of the intent to injure. You can't credibly say "I grabbed his arm and bit him to keep him from scoring." |
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26 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM (#3509286) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: gnu I got as far as the first line of the second post and thought "Only a ten match ban? Not a this and next season ban with NO pay?" for a START? NO jail time for assault? WTF? Role models apparently are not found in the the league's executives or team's owners or in police uniform. Rather appalling. |
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26 Apr 13 - 03:07 PM (#3509306) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: John MacKenzie What a fuss about nothing. Football (soccer) is played by overpaid, immature non UK nationals, in the main. How can anyone get excited about, or support a team that has a British name, and up to 100% non British players. It beggars belief, that they're not done, under the trades descriptions act, for deception. They are overpaid, over excitable, and underwhelming! I should expect anyone who is paid that amount of money, to behave themselves, as a quid pro quo for the staggeringly large pay packet. |
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26 Apr 13 - 03:36 PM (#3509324) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Lavengro If I got a bit upset in work and sank my teeth into someone (not for the first time either) I could expect two things. The sack, and a court appearance possibly leading to a custodial term. If he was in the real world and not surrounded by team lawyers and semi-professional apologists he clearly wouldn't cope or keep his employment or freedom. In fact if he did that in his local local pub he might find himself beaten to a pulp without the intervention of a referee. |
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27 Apr 13 - 06:00 AM (#3509519) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: John MacKenzie "Suarez was was banned for seven games in November 2010 while playing for Dutch side Ajax for a similar incident in which he bit PSV Eindhoven midfielder Otman Bakkal's shoulder during a match. During his time at Liverpool, the Uruguayan has received bans of eight matches for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra and one match for making an an abusive gesture at Fulham fans." |
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27 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM (#3509529) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Pete Jennings Blooming 'eck, I'm no great follower of footie so I didn't know he'd got previous. And for the same offence, only 3 years ago?!!! Ten matches is starting to sound a bit lame... |
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27 Apr 13 - 07:01 AM (#3509537) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza What did his victim (The Bitten) have to say? Did he wish to press charges? If so, I'd imagine it would be a matter for the Police, as it's technically ABH. If on the other hand, he didn't mind a bit (sorry!) then why is everyone else getting so exercised about it? I saw an article in the paper in which it seems a boy had bitten another child 'because he'd seen Suarez do it.' His mother was actually daft enough to complain that her little darling had been unduly influenced by the scenes on TV. Instead of giving him a jolly good smacked bottom, she was actually moaning about the FA and the media. Beggars belief. |
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27 Apr 13 - 07:34 AM (#3509546) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Mr Mackenzie may have a view on biting but his disparaging withering dismissal of the game that entertains adults and is played by children all over the world isn't exactly useful. I notice the American game they call football includes the players wearing muzzles. |
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27 Apr 13 - 08:51 AM (#3509560) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,MikeL2 Hi Much has been said on this topic here and elsewhere. What does not appear to have been said here is that Suarez has "form" he has bitten before and received a 7 match ban. He hasn't learned s IMHO 10 is a suitable punishment. I agree that Luis is a fine player with immense skills and of course is more than important to Liverpool. I have seen him play several times and though I admired his skill I did not like his petty and deceitful behaviour in each of the games I watched. He watches for the referee to be unsighted and uses elbows knees studs and anything else he can to upset and niggle the opposition. He falls over and dives every time anyone goes near him. It is a pity because his talent is obvious but his behaviour is a slight on Liverpool and a blemish on their high reputation in Football. Role models???.....you only have to look across the field at Steven Gerrard to see one of the best around. Cheers MikeL2 |
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27 Apr 13 - 09:03 AM (#3509564) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jack the Sailor I agree with Musket. Activities with millions upon millions of participants should not be dismissed or disparaged. |
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27 Apr 13 - 10:18 AM (#3509593) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: John MacKenzie It's my opinion, and I have as much right to state such. Same as you do to state tho opposite. Nobody's going to change anybody's mind, and if we ever meet, we'll know what not to talk about ;) |
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27 Apr 13 - 10:40 AM (#3509603) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish He should have been banned for life, as should all who demonstrate violence in football. To physically bite someone is odd. He has done it before... This is NOT normal behaviour, other than in those who have some problems. I'm old enough to remember when Liverpool Football players came from Liverpool, and their supporters wore scarves knitted by their Grannies, so maybe, just maybe, Corporate Football has invented a whole new breed of Monsters So Rich that they don't give a damn what they do, for they will always be able to afford lawyers to fight for them.. Football has become utterly stupid these days..ruled by money, conning the fans, who half the time don't know which way is up, as they stand their in their £60 T shirts yelling for their 'heroes' Sooner it get dumped into Room 101, the better.... |
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27 Apr 13 - 10:48 AM (#3509609) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish Oh..and just to say, my friend's son used to bite a lot when he was little. He was later diagnosed with Aspergers. And I disagree about the role model bit. Children WILL copy what they see on TV, especially footballers, because our society has made men who kick a football around into Gods. It has always puzzled me, especially as most of them seem to be obssessed with themselves and nowadays, with having everything money can buy, and thensome. It's become an Industry..Corporatized by The Sociopaths, to breaking point.... |
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27 Apr 13 - 10:56 AM (#3509615) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie It has been banished to room 101. In your head. One good thing about being at the match (on my way now actually) is not having to be surrounded by GROLIES such as Ms Cornish. |
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27 Apr 13 - 01:12 PM (#3509660) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza 'Children WILL copy what they see on TV if you let them.' The way forward is NOT to let them. It always amazes me that many of today's parents seem to be totally unable to control their own offspring, who indeed appear to hold sway over their hapless families. This is not the way to bring up a child to know right from wrong. By the way my niece is an Aspergers young lady and she's never bitten anyone in her life. |
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27 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM (#3509663) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: John MacKenzie @ Musket****Lizzie said nothing that others haven't already said on this thread. So why pick her out for a special insult? |
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27 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM (#3509664) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Agree entirely, Eliza. Just my point earlier about how parents seem to be unable to take responsibility nowadays. But then again, I suppose nostalgia ain't what it used to be either! :D tG |
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27 Apr 13 - 01:28 PM (#3509667) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza DtG, it's true that fings ain't wot they used ter be, but children don't change, it's the parenting (or lack of it) that's changed. If I'd bitten anybody, even as a young child, I'd have been unable to sit down for a week. That's why I don't go around biting people now. (Although I have to say sometimes I'm tempted!) Regarding biting, it can impart infections into the wound of the 'bitee'. I visited a prisoner who was a Hep B and C carrier; he regularly tried to bite Prison staff and had in fact bitten a security guard when on a burglary job. It's not pleasant to wait for the results of blood tests to see if you've contracted something horrid from an animal like that. I was lucky that he didn't see me as munchable, I suppose! |
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27 Apr 13 - 01:57 PM (#3509672) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check Mr Mackenzie. I didn't. I started by being disappointed in your feeble contribution. In fact, Ms Cornish was on form. Unfortunately her form orbits a different planet to mine. The pair of you. This thread isn't about knocking football it is about the behaviour of one player the other week. If you don't like or understand the glorious game, I'm not sure your contribution pointing out the fact is relevant. I picked on the pair of you because although I am sure there are others saying the same, I have a life so haven't read them all. Just the op and a few recent. In fact the reason I am bored enough to be posting is that it is half time, my son has gone to get the bovril and rat's coffins and rather than watch the unnecessary cheerleader display (chuffing yanks spreading their "culture" again,) I am checking posts and waiting for the next wonderful 90 mins. Up the Owls! |
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27 Apr 13 - 06:25 PM (#3509745) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Steve Shaw Well of course, Musket will be anticipating this post of mine with dread. Yes, Liverpool have just beaten Newcastle United six nil. At Newcastle. Fer chrissake. Inflicted the heaviest home defeat on Newcastle for over 80 years. Without Suarez. I'm very calm, of course. Very very calm. *Sheeeeeee-it!!!! Yeah! Go Reds!!!!* Ahem. Yes. Very very very calm... |
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28 Apr 13 - 02:36 AM (#3509820) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian Enjoyed watching it on Match of the Day. Should have been 7 towards the end. |
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28 Apr 13 - 03:47 AM (#3509832) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza And not a bite in sight! |
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28 Apr 13 - 03:51 AM (#3509834) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Smell my finger Biting? That's nuffin! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hopoate During a 2001 clash with the Cowboys, Hopoate, in an attempt to unsettle several of his opponents, inserted his finger in three players' anuses, the first occurring during the seventh minute of play. At the conclusion of the match the matter was immediately referred to the rugby league judiciary where a case was put forward from both sides on 28 March. Hopoate claimed in front of the panel of judges that he was simply attempting to give all three players "a wedgie" with his fingers, denying he had done anything wrong and that he was "a great believer in what happens on the field should stay there". The three victims in the case, Cowboys players Glenn Morrison, Peter Jones and Paul Bowman all disagreed with the reasoning put forward by Hopoate and his team. Jones stated, "It wasn't a wedgie. That's when your pants are pulled up your arse. I think I know the difference between a wedgie and someone sticking their finger up my bum", while Bowman stated that he was "disgusted" and "couldn't believe it." |
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28 Apr 13 - 06:40 AM (#3509865) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza Good heavens, how disgusting! The dirty pig! Yuk!! And have the judges yet come to a decision? Interesting to learn later what the ruling will be! |
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28 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM (#3509866) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza Gracious, I've just thought... I do hope silly parents will be able to stop their wayward offspring from copying THAT role model. If not, there'll be fingers poked up bums in playgrounds all over Britain! |
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28 Apr 13 - 08:28 AM (#3509887) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish I think you mean The Glorious Corporate Game... As to biting...my friend was and is a wonderful parent, but at that time in his life, it made no difference, such was his distress over things happening to him at school, which he was not able to put into words easily... And,for the record, a woman I got to know a while back, told me of her son, also diagnosed with Aspergers. She had been terrified of him when he was younger, before she finally got help and a diagnosis. He tried to stab her many times over with a bread knife or other implements he could find. She ended up on medication...in a terrible state, but she stood beside him and eventually help WAS given to them both. She arranged for me to meet him....I asked him what had caused the pain..and he told me had developed this terrible anger towards his mother, because she made him go to school each day, where he was terrified out of his wits...That anger grew and grew, for he loved her dearly, as she did him...and he felt torn apart that the very person who was supposed to protect him the most, was the very one who was causing him so much pain. Now, he winces at what he did..feels terrible. He still struggles and can still get very angry, but he has learnt to control it..and for the most part he is kind, gentle and quiet, working with others who have learning/emotional/mental difficulties and being very happy with his work, for he relates so well to their problems. It is NOT normal to bite people and I'm sorry to disagree on this one, Eliza, as I normally agree with much that you say, but in this instance, I think you are wrong. |
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28 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM (#3509967) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza I'm sorry Lizzie if I sounded in any way arrogant about my Aspergers niece; it wasn't intended I assure you. I can see that the condition manifests itself in many ways and to many different degrees. Actually, my niece sometimes self-harms by cutting her arms and punching herself. This could I expect be a parallel action to biting. It's sheer frustration and a stress/alarm response. She has recently had a change in her medication which has helped, and my sister is slightly less worried about her. It's a very difficult condition, but luckily more publicised and better understood than formerly. |
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29 Apr 13 - 03:20 AM (#3510132) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Very good article here that brings up a few points. A lot of is by a sports psychologist from the university of Salford so I would give it more credence than some of the psychobabble that is being spouted. It seems that while biting is rare in adults it is more common in sport than in 'real life'. It would appear that it is often the result of frustration and close proximity with your 'opponent'. I would also point out that a 10 match ban is not the harshest penalty for biting either. Back in 1994 South African Johan le Roux received an 18 month ban for biting the ear of an opponent. Of course that was rugby where players are not likely to go stage theatrical dives at the drop of a hat... Cheers DtG |
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29 Apr 13 - 03:28 AM (#3510133) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Sorry - should have said more common in contact sports as teh article does. Also just spotted that Ivanovic is not reporting any physical injury and does not want police to progress the issue. Unless I am mistaken an assault such as this one would need the victim to press charges. So even if this was not on the football field, it would not have resulted in prosecution. DtG |
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29 Apr 13 - 03:54 AM (#3510137) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Rolf Wot? |
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29 Apr 13 - 04:02 AM (#3510141) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Will Fly Football - what a waste of space it is these days - in my view. I couldn't care less if it does being pleasure to millions - it should be played under the sea. When I was being taught how to play it in school sports, 50+ years ago, we were shown the differences between correct and incorrect tackling. We didn't fall down in mock pain. If we pulled someone's shirt or did anything that constituted a deliberate foul, we were often sent off. We were taught the concept of sport and sportsmanship. Sad, eh? Fast forward 50 years - immature louts being paid ridiculous sums of cash kicking a bit of plastic around to bring in money for greedy corporate businesses. The sport, like many others has been ruined by money. I can't bear to watch the game now as I'm stuck in a time warp with boyhood heroes like Tom Finney, Nat Lofthouse and Stanley Matthews. Nat could be a bit rough at times, but probably took his false teeth out before a game... Matthews - one of the greatest players of his day - never got a booking in his life. |
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29 Apr 13 - 05:17 AM (#3510153) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza I actually think that biting is triggered in the amygdala part of the brain, the primitive, instinctive section. Add to that male testosterone produced during 'fight' (ie a physical sport) and I suppose men have to try hard to control their basic urges. But it CAN be controlled, as the vast majority of players do NOT bite anybody! I agree with Will Fly, attitudes generally were far different in 'our' day. I also think modern football triggers violence and aggression in speactators which spills over into street life. |
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29 Apr 13 - 05:25 AM (#3510156) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Once again great sense from Eliza! |
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29 Apr 13 - 07:08 AM (#3510174) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST "I also think modern football triggers violence and aggression in speactators which spills over into street life." Not convinced by this. From what I remember soccer related violence was far worst in the past - particularly the 70s. Also, you have to admit that whatever you think of the corporate takeover of football - and it has clearly happened - you can't get away from the sheer skill of some of the players, far from all of whom are badly behaved cheats. Three words - Robin, Van and Persie. |
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29 Apr 13 - 02:45 PM (#3510271) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check Of course, there are millions who would rather be entertained by watching a decent match than hear you sing. ... Once again into the breach. If you don't like or understand football then either start or reply to a thread on that subject. This was started by a football fan (of sorts) about an incident during a match. Not about the match itself. More people follow football than Jesus and Justin Bieber combined. |
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29 Apr 13 - 03:15 PM (#3510281) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza Ah, GUEST, but I wasn't looking back to the seventies. I'm old enough to remember the fifties, and things were very different then. Musket, I thought this thread was about role models among football players, and whether their behaviour on the pitch has an adverse effect on the young, with particular reference to a recent biting incident. One doesn't need to know too much about the actual game of football to be able to comment, surely? |
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29 Apr 13 - 05:48 PM (#3510305) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Fully agree Eliza. But that is different to those starting with saying they dismiss football then go on to talk about the incident and role models. If they are not capable of saying anything positive about the game it would be odd if they had an objective stance on an incident in the game. |
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29 Apr 13 - 06:27 PM (#3510308) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome If they are not capable of saying anything positive about the game it would be odd if they had an objective stance on an incident in the game. So, by the same token, if you have nothing positive to say about the Nazi party you cannot have an objective stance about Kristallnacht? Or if you have nothing positive to say about Fred West you cannot comment on mass murder? I find that philosophy somewhat alien I'm afraid. Maybe you could educate me? Cheers DtG |
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30 Apr 13 - 01:52 AM (#3510364) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Of course. Assuming you can be educated. If you start a thread on cookery, it would be tedious and irrelevant if people felt it important to say they don't give a damn about cooking. I doubt anybody is interested in the nuances of Nazi ideology. Ot at least from a defensive point of view. I have no interest in pocket watches but be buggered if I would be crass enough to post on that thread to say I don't see the fascination. If I had a view regarding French versus Swiss I might but to just display my ignorance and dismissal to those interested in the subject isn't good manners. Having a Godwin complex isn't either. ... |
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30 Apr 13 - 04:29 AM (#3510381) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome OK Musket. Assuming that your opening comment was not meant just to annoy. Yes, I can and have often been educated people who know more than me on some topics. Just as I have educated people that know less than me about others. I do not particularly follow any football team. I do believe that at top level there is a surfeit of overpaid spoiled brats and that the value placed on the game by some people is far in excess of what is deserved. However I do enjoy the odd game and can appreciate the skill involved. I also believe that people who do not like football have every right to comment on incidents that have nothing whatsoever to do with the game itself. Like the biting of other players. On the subject of good manners I do not find it particularly courteous to open a response with an implied doubt of someones intelligence. So I find the castigation of those who have dismissed the subject by yourself somewhat hypocritical. Then again, I suppose your opinion of my views will probably be on par with the value I place on yours. Cheers DtG |
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30 Apr 13 - 05:22 AM (#3510395) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check I never questioned your intelligence. I questioned the intelligence of your observation as related to the thread subject. I agree that on the remuneration these lads get we should expect as high a degree of behaviour as we expect sporting skill. Those gifted with both are few and far between and we watch them for the latter. ...... I don't put any value on your contributions and would be surprised if anybody put any weight on mine. I don't know you. You don't know me and if we have any mental image of each other it wouldn't represent the reality if we followed each other on at a folk club. Lighten up you daft bugger. |
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30 Apr 13 - 07:33 AM (#3510419) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Well, Assuming you can be educated. does look rather like a question about me rather than an observation on the thread. Maybe our interpretation of the language is a bit different? But I agree with the rest your post - Especially the last bit :-) Apart from the fact that everything I post on here is, in my mind, trivial to the extreme and usually lighter than a light thing that is very light! We'll just put any differences down to the choice of language again. Mine being good and everyone else's being crap of course... :D tG |
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30 Apr 13 - 09:47 AM (#3510425) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Keith A of Hertford More people follow football than Jesus and Justin Bieber combined. More than 1.7 million attend Church of England services in the average month. This figure could be larger, but it is still enormous, far more than the number who attend football matches, often assumed to be Britain's favourite weekend activity. But church people tend not to be as newsworthy as footballers. Their Christian values stand at an angle to the brash, thrill-seeking, instant consumer culture that has become dominant in Britain over the last half-century. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8970031/The-return-to-religion.html |
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30 Apr 13 - 09:55 AM (#3510428) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Keith A of Hertford 'Much of BBC One's programming is accounted for by three major strands, Songs of Praise, which reached 3.4 million viewers each week in 2009, and Big Questions and Sunday Morning Live, discussion and debate formats broadcast on Sunday mornings.' |
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30 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM (#3510448) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check More people in China watch our Premier League than there are people in The UK. I'll not bother carrying on. But even keeping in The Uk, most small towns have over 10000 turn up at the match and a couple of hundred between the churches. Sky Sports subscription rates, a few million watching international matches on BBC etc. Football offers faith, mass worship and a sense of belonging. Churches offer weak tea and disappointment. The glorious game. But there again, claiming more support for something than there really is... How's the canvassing going Keith? Disowned many candidates lately? |
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30 Apr 13 - 02:48 PM (#3510492) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza I hesitate to generalise, but MY church does not offer 'weak tea and disappointment'! Although not very knowledgeable, I do like football and enjoy watching it with my husband, who is mad on it. He helps me understand the Beautiful Game in all its glory and his enthusiasm is catching. But on the subject of role models, one can surely opinionate on any celebrity the young idolise, with regard to their public behaviour. |
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30 Apr 13 - 06:19 PM (#3510555) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans sin Ah Eliza. Read it again. My point was that many people take their interest in football seriously so might have problems being told it is trivial. My comparisons with religion were based on similar mindset of faith regardless of comparison with reality. Read it again, the tongue in cheek part isn't too hidden. |
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01 May 13 - 03:39 AM (#3510606) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome ...many people take their interest in religion seriously so might have problems being told it is just weak tea and disappointment! :-) I do not count myself in that number btw but I find it is becoming more common on Mudcat for posters to state that their posts are ironic while treating other peoples posts as serious. I guess it is the need to pretend to be more intelligent than others. Of course there is no real way of knowing if I really believe that or not ;-) Cheers DtG |
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01 May 13 - 03:52 AM (#3510611) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Eliza I'm truly sorry Musket sans sin if I misunderstood the tone of your post. It is rather difficult (or else I'm thicker than I thought) to determine irony online. I'm very glad you are indeed 'sans sin'! (smiling) I'm afraid I'm rather sinful myself, but I keep working on it! (smiling again) |
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01 May 13 - 08:36 AM (#3510661) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian I do keep saying. Whilst people may take these posts at face value there is a market here for shooting from the hip in a way you might not face to face. The sincerity of your comments may be consistent but the delivery may be more straight forward and telling it like it is, even pushing further than you normally would in order to encourage debate. Im certainly guilty of that. I am also guilty of not worrying over the tact or lack of when it comes to some replies. That said, it can be cathartic. Hey Eliza. Sin is relative. Im free from it by my reckoning but my lack of religious belief knocks the built in sin into touch. On balance I am fairly sure I have ignored my own moral code far more than you have (!) |
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01 May 13 - 09:17 AM (#3510667) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jeri I just wish you'd learn what "sans" means, because some versions of your handle are pretty distractingly (and I'm sure, unintentionally) funny. Comes off more like "Musket sans clue". (The "sans reality check" was close to that,though.) No, it's not enough for me to bitch about English, American or otherwise, but now I'm bringing French into it... |
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01 May 13 - 09:31 AM (#3510672) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans body I started using it to say without my cookie but as someone had accused someone else of being pretentious on a thread I used sans instead of without to wind him up. It sadly stuck. It means basically I am using my phone. I can't store cookies due to corporate restrictions and can't be arsed to sign in each time. When I type m in the box the full list of past names is offered. Hence lazily I can use them. According to my pet dog, French is French to both British and American English. Mais vous le saviez déjà.... |
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01 May 13 - 09:45 AM (#3510677) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Jeri OK. I'll give up, but you have to admit the list of things and people you're "without" is pretty weird. |
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01 May 13 - 10:03 AM (#3510681) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: Dave the Gnome Maybe sans should be changed to Sams? As in Sam's Musket? No? Ah well... I'll pick up thy coat :-) Cheers DtG |
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01 May 13 - 10:15 AM (#3510687) Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris! From: GUEST,Musket sans Marriot Edgar Aye, thy should. Being weird normally denotes being with. As in with an aardvark on a lead. Being without could be a sign of underprivileged past you know.... |