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Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails

07 Nov 99 - 08:43 AM (#132818)
Subject: The Big Ship Sails
From: Paul

Can any one help me find the words for a childrens song that goes,The Big Ship Sails On The Alley Alley Oh


07 Nov 99 - 08:46 AM (#132820)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Penny S.

...on the last day of September.

The captain said she would never, never die...

Sorry, no more, I was kicked out of the game before they taught me the rest.


07 Nov 99 - 08:52 AM (#132822)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: poet

Poet's mate Phil, yet again!

I think that the song comes from Liverpool. I know that my mother and my grandmother used to sing it and that it was a song that went with playground games, although, without calling my mother to find out, I don't know which ones. I've also heard Cilla Black sing it on the telly!!!

Oh well, you can't win them all. Phil


07 Nov 99 - 10:54 AM (#132837)
Subject: Lyr Add: THERE'S A BIG SHIP SAILING^^
From: Liam's Brother

THERE'S A BIG SHIP SAILING

There's a big ship sailing on the ooley-ooley-ull, the ooley-ooley-ull.
There's a big ship sailing on the ooley-ooley-ull, on the last day of November.

The Captain says, "It'll never-never-do, never-never-never-do, never-never-do."
The Captain says, "It'll never-never-do on the last day of November.

So we all stuck our heads in the deep blue sea, the deep blue sea, the deep blue sea.
We all stuck our heads in the deep blue sea on the last day of November.

All the best,
Dan Milner ^^


07 Nov 99 - 10:57 AM (#132839)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Liam's Brother

Well, there are 3 "ooley-ooley-ulls" in the first line and I didn't close the quote at the end of the second verse but that's just about it as I recall. Remember, this is a folk song, so this is not an Official Version.

All the best,
Dan


07 Nov 99 - 11:21 AM (#132847)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Peter T.

Anyone know the origins of this song? I have sung this song since I was a kid and knew nothing about it -- me mam was from Newcastle. What is the Alley-Alley-all? yours, Peter T.


07 Nov 99 - 11:45 AM (#132854)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Stewie

The Clancy Brothers sang a version that went like this:

There's a big ship sailin' on the illy ally o, the illy ally o, the illy ally o
There's a big ship sailin' on the illy ally o
Hi ho the illy ally o

There's a big ship sailin' rockin' on the sea, rockin' on the sea, rockin' on the sea
There's a big ship sailin, rockin' on the sea
Hi ho rockin' on the sea

There's a big ship sailin' back again, back again, back again
There's a big ship sailin' back again
Hi ho back again
Hi ho back again

They suggest 'illy ally o' was simply the children's nonsense expression for the sea in the way that they called the snails 'shellacky shellacky bookies' (if that's how you spell it).

Cheers, Stewie.


07 Nov 99 - 11:46 AM (#132855)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: wildlone

I have asked Mother about this song,
The "Alley" is the Manchester ship Canal.
The date used was the day the canal was opened.

The big ship sails on the Alley Alley Oh,Alley Alley Oh,Alley Alley Oh, Rpt.
On the last day of September.

The Captain said this will never never do.ect

The big ship sinks in the Alley Alley Oh.----

We all drown in the Alley Alley Oh.----

We all jump up in the Alley Alley Oh.----
This is what she can remember of the Chester version of this song.


07 Nov 99 - 12:43 PM (#132871)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Liam's Brother

Very interesting, wildlone. Thanks.

All the best,
Dan


07 Nov 99 - 01:09 PM (#132878)
Subject: add: The Big Ship Sails ^^
From: Margaret\W

Paul

The version I learned as a child (and which children in my school still use) goes as follows:

The big ship sails through the alley-alley-o
The alley-alley-o, the alley-alley-o;
The big ship sails through the alley-alley-o
On the last day of September.

Mother, father, may I go
May I go, may I go?
Oh mother, father, may I go
On the last day of September?

The captain says that'll never never do
Never never do, never never do.
The captain says that'll never never do
On the last day of September.

The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
The bottom of the sea, the bottom of the sea;
The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
On the last day of September.

Children thread through an arch for the first three verses so they all end up joined in a line with crossed arms, then make a circle for the last verse and fall to the floor at the end! It's good to see that this is one playground game which is still the same in North Northumberland as it was when I played it thirty years ago

Margaret^^


07 Nov 99 - 02:03 PM (#132892)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Peter T.

Margaret, just exactly how do they move through the arch, and how do the arms get crossed? I would like to teach this to some small North American kids of my acquaintance.....yours, Peter T.


07 Nov 99 - 02:51 PM (#132900)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Penny S.

In Folkestone, we made a line with the end person having their hand against a wall. The line threaded the needle through that arch. Then the bully ran through, breaking up the line (not part of the game). This was repeated several times, I was blamed and that's why I know no more. I think that the needle threading happened with the between child arches. And we sang "alley-alley-ooo"

Penny


08 Nov 99 - 02:28 AM (#133119)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails ^^
From: roopoo

I can remember as a small child at school in Buxton, we all held hands in a line. The person on the end of the line put their right arm on the wall and then the others went under, the kid by the wall letting their left arm follow through to cross the arms. The line the went under the arch made by the first kid's left arm and the next kid's right and so on, until all had their arms crossed in front. They then made a circle, still with arms crossed, and sort of twisted left and right as they chanted the follow-on rhyme so that their arms (in front of their bodies at waist height) sort of slid up and down each other. I think the Big Ship song was finished off before the follow-on chant started:

Ip dip dip, my blue ship, Sailing on the water like a cup and saucer ip dip dip, my blue ship, O-U-T spells out!

At this point the memory is getting a bit unreliable (it was nearly 40 years ago) but at some point I think the arms were "bounced" up and down, maybe on the O-U-T spells out. Although it is a bit like a selection chant, I think it was merely the next down the line who started off again.

mouldy^^


08 Nov 99 - 06:16 AM (#133141)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: AndyG

Just to add my bit to this, being born in, and spending the first 30-something years of my life in the Manchester/Stockport area I too remember this rhyme.

I've not previously heard of a connection between the Ship Canal and the song, and sadly I find that the Canal was officially opened on 21 May 1894.

The rhyme I remember accompanied a dance-game as described above, usually a girls game. I remember a chorus as well, though after all this time it could just be my mind playing tricks :)

The big ship sails through the alley-alley-o
The alley-alley-o, the alley-alley-o;
The big ship sails through the alley-alley-o
On the last day of September.

Ch:
Alley-alley-o, alley-alley-o;
The big ship sails away
OH!
The big ship sails through the alley-alley-o
On the last day of September.

AndyG


08 Nov 99 - 07:17 AM (#133147)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Penny. S

Can anyone try the Opies?

Penny


08 Nov 99 - 02:20 PM (#133266)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails ^^
From: Peter T.

Yes, the Opies on the trail..... In "The Singing Game" (Iona and Peter Opie, OUP, 1985) they call it the only survivor of the ancient "Thread The Needle" game, of which visual record goes back to the Lorenzetti frescos in Siena in 1350! Variations are found in Appalachian dance ("Killiecrankie, Winding Up the Maple Leaf, etc.) and in England under "Dan, Dan, Thread the Needle."
They note that the problem with the Manchester Ship Canal origin is that there is an 1870 recollection from New Zealand; and that it has some obscure connection to the Christmas ships sailing, and various "through and throught the salley go" threading the needle songs. They give an extensive description of how to play the game, as well as a picture, which I am puzzling out. Boy, I can hardly wait to try this one out.....

One version:
1) Long line of people holding hands.
2) The two people at one end, hold up their hands to form an arch.
3) The player at the other end of the line, everyone still holding hands, runs through the arch, pulling everyone along through as well. (Thus twisting the original arch makers)
4) The new two leading people form an arch, and the last person in the line (one of those who had formed the original arch) goes through, and the process continues until everyone is twisted around.
5) They then form a circle of their twisted arms, and fall down at the end!!!!!

Up against the wall version:

1) Long line with last person making an arch with her hand high up on a wall.
2) Person at other end leads whole line through the arch, and last person's arms are thus crossed over
3) The orginal line leader now moves the line through the arch (alley) between the player at the wall and her nearest neighbour, who is likewise "stitched". The line then goes through the arch between the second and the third player.
4) And so on. After the last stich is made, all players go into a circle. Dancing in a circle, or falling down ensuues!!!!
yours, Peter T. ^^


08 Nov 99 - 02:24 PM (#133267)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Peter T.

Oops, should have said that mouldy's version is the one cited by the Opie's (up against the wall variant)! Nice to hear from a trained expert!!!!!!!yours, Peter T.


08 Nov 99 - 04:11 PM (#133312)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Margaret\W

Peter T

The instructions you quote are exactly what I would have sent you. Have fun trying the game with children, but give them a soft surface to fall onto!

Margaret W


08 Nov 99 - 04:23 PM (#133321)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Peter T.

Margaret, I am now thinking of trying it with adults. There is a fine debauched Rubens painting of the scene, which is part of a discussion of what villagers did in the days before television. I think they get all crossed up with each other, and have lots of soft things to fall down on. yours, Peter T.


09 Nov 99 - 02:30 AM (#133570)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: roopoo

Thanks for the compliment! Blaster Bates defines an expert thus: "ex" is something that has been... "spert" is a drip under pressure.

mouldy


09 Nov 99 - 02:51 AM (#133571)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: alison

we used to sing and play this one too... it was very similar to "In and out go the dusty bluebells"..., but in the bluebells one the line stopped behind someone standing in the circle and did a "tipper-ripper-rapper on her shoulder" verse... then that person joined the line and they went under the arches of everyones arms...

slainte

alison


09 Nov 99 - 02:52 AM (#133572)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: roopoo

By the way, I wasn't being sarcastic, Peter T, it does somewhat describe me! We definitely didn't fall over in our version of the game. Not on purpose, anyway. I'm desperately trying to relive my playground days now. Must be a sign of encroaching senility.

mouldy


09 Nov 99 - 02:56 AM (#133573)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: roopoo

Do you know, Alison, I couldn't get "In and out the Dusty Bluebells" out of my mind with this.Thanks for the mental jog. I think we used to do a similar sort of thing as before, but not by a wall. I think it was done at a half-run in the middle of the playground. What happened when we all had our arms crossed completely escapes me!

mouldy


09 Nov 99 - 03:36 AM (#133579)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: roopoo

Ps - didn't the "dusty Bluebells" go to the tune of Bobby Shafto? I have just dug out an ancient copy of the Opie book which someone gave me years ago. Interesting. It was first published in the year I can first remember doing these rhymes. I can't find the Big Ship in it. Where do I look? I have found some variations of a skipping game we had to "Manchester Guardian,Evening News; Our back door goes Flip-Flap-Flooze". And on Flooze, the skipper bobs down and stays down while the twiners carry on at head height. The rhyme is repeated, and on Flooze the rope is swung down and the (stationary and crouching) skipper has to bob up and carry on. Going now before I get carried away.

mouldy


09 Nov 99 - 07:51 AM (#133624)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: alison

Yep... like a cross between Bobby Shaftoe and London Bridge is falling down .. (I think the last line of each verse was "My fair lady")...

the one with the crossed arms.... you're not thinking of "Red Rover, Red Rover we call....... over"? then someone had to charge and try to break through the arms?... I'm sure we had a thread on this before.... can't remember the name..

slainte

alison


09 Nov 99 - 10:27 AM (#133667)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Peter T.

the Opies have different books -- this one is called "The Singing Game". yours, Peter T.


09 Nov 99 - 10:39 AM (#133672)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Roger the skiffler

For what it's worth, AndyG's version is what I remember from about 50 years ago in Birmingham (UK).The falling down at the end seemed to be the whole point!


09 Nov 99 - 01:33 PM (#133735)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: roopoo

Could be it. I was looking in "The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren" originally published 1959. I have the really up to date 1973 reprint!

mouldy


28 Nov 01 - 02:16 PM (#599522)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,MAG at work

Hmmm, I learned this as:

O the big ship sails along the alley alley o, etc.

I use the leaf version for the Maypole at Spring Fling (Earth Day + Arbor Day + May 1.) I love teaching kids these play-party games which are their heritage but they never heard of. They love 'em.


28 Nov 01 - 06:44 PM (#599737)
Subject: Lyr Add: IN AND OUT THE DUSTY BLUE BELLS
From: running.hare

IN AND OUT THE DUSTY BLUE BELLS

(children form a circle, hold hands & raise arms to form arches.. except for 1 child who 'skips' in & out of the arches)

"In and out the dusty blue bells,
In and out the dusty blue bells,
In and out the dusty blue bells,
who will be my partner?

(child stops behind nearest person in the circle)

pitter patter pitter patter on her (/his) shoulders
pitter patter pitter patter on her (/his) shoulders
pitter patter pitter patter on her (/his) shoulders
You shall be my partner."

(the child who has been patted on shoulders lets go from the circle, & joins 1st child weaving in & out. song starts again & so it goes on.


29 Nov 01 - 01:28 PM (#600334)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST

And for what it`s worth, in the North of Ireland 60 years ago, we also sailed through the Aily illy o, and Dusty Bluebells was around as well. Strange how these childrens games transferred across to Ireland. Can any Dublin or Cork catters confirm. Game boy


29 Nov 01 - 05:46 PM (#600537)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: running.hare

My Guides had a great time doing both bigship, & bluebells tonight, & even whent on to oranges and lemons. Thx guys for the insperation :)

Now I just need to find a local caller / mucians who whouldn't mind volentearing their time for 1 evening ;)


11 Aug 02 - 06:29 PM (#763528)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Jim Dixon

"A Big Ship Sailing," performed by the Clancy Children, appears on "So Early in the Morning: Irish Children's Songs, Rhymes & Games," Tradition CD #1053, 1997 (originally issued 1962). Click here for a description of the album at AMG.


11 Aug 02 - 09:04 PM (#763599)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Nigel Parsons

Don't I remember this being sung in the background of a hit song (not Lowry's cats and dogs, but something similar) ?

Nigel


12 Aug 02 - 02:35 PM (#763960)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: EBarnacle1

There was a movie back in the 1950's (I believe) that had children singing this as the main musical theme. That's all I remember of it.


13 Aug 02 - 08:15 AM (#764326)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joe in the'pool

Hi there, My thoughts on the 'alley O' was that ships where built 'at the bottom of the streets near the docks' and when you looked down the street it resembled an alley! areas in the UK that spring to mind are. Liverpool, Sunderland, Newcastle, Glasgow, etc. etc. So 'the big ships sailed down the alley alley O' was probably made by kids somewhere in these regions? Just a slightly educated guess but as valid as any I think!

Peace and Love Joe.


24 Oct 03 - 06:52 PM (#1041297)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,tommy liverpool

In Liverpool this song is regarded as being of Liverpool origin. This may or may not be true. The manchester Shp canal starts from the Mersey, but alley was always viewed as being the alleys down to the mersey.

The 50's film was a taste of honey featuring Rita Tushingham. The song was sung by Liverpool School Children


24 Oct 03 - 07:19 PM (#1041316)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joybell

I understood the Clancy's word for snails as "shell-a-kie (?spelling)Boogies" I wondered if this name related to the type of mischievous, sometimes dangerous, supernatural beings called variously bogies, boogles, bug-a-boos, bogeys. - snails being a shelled variety - but I've never been able to confirm this. My Irish frieds just said they called them snails.


24 Oct 03 - 07:53 PM (#1041339)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joybell

The movie which has this song at the begining and end is: "A Taste of Honey" (and a very brief taste it is too!)


24 Oct 03 - 08:03 PM (#1041345)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Charley Noble

"A Taste of Honey." Yes, more bitter than sweet.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


24 Oct 03 - 09:10 PM (#1041373)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joybell

Lizabee, I spent many years as leader of a girls' group. I taught them lots of Play-party dance-games and the great thing is - You don't need musicians - you do the singing and handclapping yourselves and the moves are easy. (American Play-party games evolved partly because of a parental ban on dances and on musicians - whose influence was percieved as being corrupting). The kids pick them right up and teach you if necessary. Once I even taught them to several deaf children who translated the words into signs and taught the rest of the group how to sign. A very quiet night we had with lots of fun.
I am currently teaching them to elderly people because being self-paced these dances are perfect for people with limited mobility. We do versions of the Virginia reel as well as the more simple dances - all to our own accompanyment.
Be brave you can all learn together.


24 Oct 03 - 09:30 PM (#1041385)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Brakn

"A Taste of Honey."

Wasn't that set in Salford?


24 Oct 03 - 10:07 PM (#1041400)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Who will be my partner?" - in the Dusty Bluebells. My wife reacalls it as "Who will be my leader?". That's from London, probably a slightly different game.


25 Oct 03 - 05:27 PM (#1041734)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Alec in Donegal

Ringo Starr obviously knew it, scouse-wise, it came out as 'We all live in a Yellow Submarine...'


25 Oct 03 - 05:58 PM (#1041741)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joybell

Salford was the location for "Taste of Honey" alright.


26 Oct 03 - 02:02 PM (#1042077)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Joybell

I don't know how to spell it either - but could say it clearly to you!The second word probably relates to the "pooka" (anglicised spelling) rather than "boogey", a mischievous spirit. I'l see if I can check the origin.

Regards


27 Oct 03 - 06:42 AM (#1042418)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: MartinRyan

OK. Nothing to do with spirits at all!
"Seilide búrca" (various spellings but pronounced roughly: shell-id-eh boork-ah)is an Irish (Gaelic)word for a snail. Because it was used in a children's game at one stage, it still turns up among children bilingually, so to speak.

Regards


27 Oct 03 - 06:48 AM (#1042421)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: McGrath of Harlow

Aren't "pooka" and "bogey" cognate anyway?


27 Oct 03 - 07:10 AM (#1042433)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Hamish

I have been known to steal songs from the Scottish children's act The Singing Kettle. (Don't tell the adults I use 'em on: I don't think they suspect a thing!) and they do a version which includes:

"The big ship sails too high..." (sung falsetto)
"...too low..." (sung basso)
"...too fast..." (um, allegretto)
"...too slow..." (um, slowly)

which is kinda fun with the right sort of attitudes all round


27 Oct 03 - 07:12 AM (#1042436)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: McGrath of Harlow

What about "too flat" and too sharp" as well?


27 Oct 03 - 07:31 AM (#1042444)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Joybell

Oh Martin what a disapointment. How boring. Thanks though it's as well to know before we start a silly rumour. I've wondered for about 40 years about them.

McGrath, Haven't you watched "Harvey"? I love Harvey! He is a giant rabbit and he calls himself a Pooka. He's not what my Fairies book calls a Pooka, but how can you not believe Jimmy Stewart. My Faerie book says a Phooka/Phouka is a nastier being than a Boogle or Boogie, but it doesn't mention rabbits at all. It is an Irish form of Puck, aparently, and a sort of shaggy ponyish or bovinesque animal.
My Dear one says that in Irish the "h" would not be there and it should be Pooka. Take a look at "Harvey" anyway it's a wonderful film.
                                                    Regards Joy


27 Oct 03 - 12:25 PM (#1042646)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: TheBigPinkLad

In ancient times, a pook was believed a bad spirit. When things went wrong, however, you could save yourself from further exposure to such bad luck by the naming the spirit aloud. Unfortunately, as soon as you opened your mouth to name it, you ran the risk of the spirit entering your body and giving you permanent ill fortune. This could be countered by placing the fingers in the mouth prior to saying the name. Of course, our ancestors were'nt as keen on the anti-bacterial soap as we are, so stuffing filthy fingers in the mouth brought on more bad luck in the form of illness--clever folks they were though, they devised a way to pronounce the word 'pook' and make it sound as though the fingers were in the mouth when in fact they were not.


27 Oct 03 - 07:16 PM (#1042882)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: MartinRyan

McGrath

Yes, very probably! I was just speculating that if there were an Irish connection it would be likely to be with "púca", rather than "bogey/boogey".

regards


30 Sep 06 - 03:22 AM (#1846612)
Subject: Childrens' song or rhym from WW2
From: GUEST,Joy

I was evacuated from London during the War to the Isle of Man and there the children were always singing something like "We don't want to bomb all the bombardies, bomb all the bomardies...etc. We are the King's Navee". As far as I remember it was an endless song and we went through all the Forces.
Anybody remember it ??


30 Sep 06 - 08:51 AM (#1846775)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Observer

"The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea"
Seems to rule out a canal(unless it was after the end of the canal)
My nan (who's family were all either dock workers or in the Merch) always led me to believe it was the Atlantic that was being refered to, I have no proof of this only hearsay of course.
This would also rule out the theory that it is a nonsense song. There seems often to be a rush to assume children's songs are nonsense. However, as we know quite a few are based in fact although using words that MAY not quite make sense.

OB


30 Sep 06 - 09:03 AM (#1846780)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Nigel Parsons

Beautiful timing, thread refreshed "On the last day of September"!

Nigel


26 Dec 06 - 04:04 AM (#1919017)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Martin

I always thought that the ally O referred to the Atlantic Ocean


28 Feb 07 - 06:41 PM (#1982260)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Malcolm on the Wirral

I am sure there is a tie up between the River Mersey and The Manchester Ship Canal and I have heard that the Ally Ally O is where the two join.
It was sung by a childrens' choir as a backing to The 1978 hit by Brian and Michael about L S Lowrie entitled 'Matchstick Mem and Matchstick Cats and Dogs'.


19 May 07 - 07:32 PM (#2056674)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Bill,Newfoundland, Canada

In the 1940s,when I was a child, we played a circle game while singing "The big ship sails through the ILLY ALLIE O. One person would start to weave under the arms of the two people next to him and all other players would follow. When all had weaved through, the leader would reverse the movement and eventually (after a lot of confusion and laughing) the original circle would be reformed.


19 Jul 07 - 04:56 PM (#2107128)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Anne

Evacuated to Penarth we played the alley, alley-o in the playground of
Victoria Girls' School (1940 - 1945) Happy memories! Remember me anyone?
I used to play the hymns in Assembly.


12 Dec 07 - 11:19 AM (#2213862)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Mr Happy

Interestingly, the version round my way as a kid had a different date:

'........on the fourth day of September'


10 Jan 08 - 12:51 AM (#2232734)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,David

It was the song that introduced the wonderful Tony Richardson film "A Taste of Honey". I had never heard of it until that film and it has been sailing happily around my head on odd occasions ever since


10 Jan 08 - 04:09 AM (#2232776)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Schantieman

I sort of learned this song from my mum back in the sixties. We were in London, and I think the only link is that the last day of September is my birthday!    As a now longtime resident of Liverpool I'd be interested to know if it is from here!


All the best

Steve


07 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM (#2256039)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Sandra

Does anyone have the chords for this song?

Thanks!


28 Jun 08 - 03:01 AM (#2376046)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Fred

In the dentist's today a (very) young mum had had brought her (I guess) 12 or 18 month old daughter, The little one (not olde enough to talk properly) was happy as larry in the play area pushing a plasic bus round and singing at the top of her voice "big shi ally alley o as ay ast ay ao ep ember"

Mum looked young enough to be my grandaughter and I was fascinated to see our culture so demonstrably being passed through the gerenerations. I learned the song as a child from my mother (a native of Liverpool, and graduate of the university of life) more than sixty years ago.

Looking for the origins of the song I ended up here.

From what I can see it has connections with shipping, and ties in to Liverpool especially, possibly tyneside too. Some associate it with the Manchester ship canal that linkes the cotton industry in Manchester with the sea, and that could be so, regarding the canal as a new form of "alley"

I was interested by the suggestion from martin above that the alleo might be shorthand for the Atlantic Ocean, and for my own contribution, I could easily see it as a shanty used to mark time by sailors working the ropes on rigged ships. Given the connection with Liverpool and the Atlantic, and the references to sinking and drowning, I suspect it pre-dates the ship canal.


28 Jun 08 - 03:18 AM (#2376050)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Fred

Extra bit:
The Atlantic crossing can be rough, especially in winter, and I've just read a suggestion that the last day of September is about the turn of the weather, so any ship's captain delaying sailing across the Atlantic Ocean until then would be at risk of bad weather, and thus his crew would be more at risk on the crossing.

Gut instinct says it was a sea shanty used to mark time by sailors on rigged trading ships crossing the Atlantic, and taught by old salts to their grandchildren and turned it into a game that may or may not have origins in the rope moving through ship fittings, as a line of children move under the arns of another, echoing the movement of the rope.

And generations later, a child in a dentist unwittingly recalls her genetic origins in song. Nice.


04 Aug 08 - 11:32 PM (#2405449)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Skate

Wow - nice to see a thread going for so long. I was at home in Ireland with my young kids, and we were trying to recall the words of this song - so googled it and got this page. Now I can continue the 'bealoideas' with my kids, despite the Liverpool connection.


29 Mar 09 - 04:32 PM (#2600009)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,karrie

My Great Great Great Grandmother had another 2 verses in her journal of the Big ship song.
they were;
The crew got sick on the alley alley o
The alley alley o, the alley alley o,
The crew got sick on the alley alley o,
On the last day of September.

The captain said paint a cross upon the sail,
A cross upon the sail, A cross upon the sail,
The captain said paint a cross upon the sail,
On the last day of September.


Then the it says the next verse as the never never do one!!


29 Mar 09 - 05:57 PM (#2600053)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Mo the caller

I don't know why you are all claiming it for Liverpool. We certainly sang it (hand against the wall) in London in the 40s.


30 Mar 09 - 10:21 PM (#2600914)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOLLY, HOLLY, HO
From: Jim Dixon

From First Year Music: Rote Songs for Kindergarten and First Year by Hollis Dann (New York: American Book Company, 1914)—where there is a musical score for voice and piano:


THE HOLLY, HOLLY, HO

The big ship sails thro' the Holly, Holly, Ho!
Holly, Holly, Ho! Holly, Holly, Ho!
The big ship sails thro' the Holly, Holly, Ho!
On the last day of December!

Children form a circle, joining hands and singing. One child, representing a ship, runs in and out, stopping at the end, in front of another child. The one chosen now represents the ship. The game may be continued in this way until all have been chosen.


23 Apr 09 - 08:07 AM (#2616874)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,MargaretS

In the 1950's at school in Bolton, Lancashire we sang:
"The big ship sails through the alley alley Oh ,
The alley alley Oh,
The alley alley Oh.
The big ship sails through the alley alley Oh on the last day of September."
We all held hands in a line with the first child holding his hand against a wall to form an arch. As we sang the line of children moved under the arch as others on here have described. The child nearest the wall would turn around as the line had threaded through so that his arms were crossed in front of him. The line would then go under his arm furthest from the wall and the arm of the child next to him and so on until the whole line had arms crossed in front of them. Then the first and last would join hands and the whole circle would move their folded, joined arms from side to side chanting : "Queen Queen Caroline dipped her hair in turpentine. turpentine to make it shine. Queen Queen Caroline. She went to the river to have a swim and their she met her Uncle Jim. "How do you do! How do you do! and how do you do again!"


03 Feb 10 - 08:36 PM (#2829439)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Bridget

I am writing a book of my life's experiences and am currently writing about my early days at school in Berkshire. We used to sing this song The big ship sails..... in the plaground with the actions but our manner of the departure of the ship wasn't dated but rather 'The big ship sails through the alley alley oh on a cold and frosty morning.I wanted to check on the rest of the verses so googled the song and was quite taken aback by all the comments.
I suppose by the time the song got down to the south of England it's hardly surprising that the words might have changed slightly. I have been fascinated by everybody's comments. Thankyou so much. By the way I am now living in Australia!!


14 Feb 10 - 09:44 AM (#2838895)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Rescue Shrek

So back to the quesion... Does anyone have the chords for this song? I've been searching every where to no joy


25 Feb 10 - 01:07 AM (#2849533)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Sue

I thnk the dusty bluebells were in fact dusky bluebells which makes more se3nse to an adult although children would be more familiar with the word dusty and probably adopted that as the proper word.
I have taught both this and "the big ship sails through the illy ally oh" to kids in school in Jordan and in Qatar, so its alive and well internationally.


19 Mar 10 - 06:39 AM (#2867498)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Guest Max

I was just planning my civil ceremony and can't have the date in September I would like, but wanted a memorable one and thought of this song and 'the last day of September' so looked this song up as it sparked some memories.   My wonderful mum taught this to me in the 1960's - 1970's and she was from The Mumbles in Swansea, South Wales. She was born in 1938 and I'm guessing learnt it at school herself in Wales. I'm sure our version went 'the good ship' not the big ship. I can't ask her as sadly she is no longer with us. I think we sang it at school too.


20 Mar 10 - 11:20 PM (#2868419)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,me

the film was a taste of honey
B


16 May 10 - 10:33 PM (#2908318)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,ursula

I am in the USA was born in the uk and am actually a resident of AUS I was looking for the lyrcs of this song as it came to me while I was rocking my baby to sleep. I will definitely teach it to her and the game and who knows where she will take it. I remember playing it in the playground when I was little


06 Jun 10 - 04:05 PM (#2921930)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Angela

We used to play this game and sing the song when I was in primary school in Canada. Far away from the sea, we always played it on the first day of the school year in September.


08 Oct 10 - 01:57 AM (#3002260)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Sylv

We also sang the big ship sailed through the alley alley oh.....

This was in Glasgow, Scotland in the early 1960´s.

I am now trying to translate the words into Spanish for a children´s spanish/english class.


29 Jul 11 - 03:54 PM (#3198085)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Janne

I saw the movie "A taste of honey" on Swedish television almost 40 years ago. I don't remember the movie, but "the alley alley oh" song has been stuck in my head ever since. Tonight I got the idea to look it up on the net and found this site.

Wonderful to see this thread stretching out into a third decade!


29 Jul 11 - 04:12 PM (#3198099)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Anne Neilson

My mother (born in Glasgow in 1911) sang this as "The big ship sailed through the eely ally oh etc." -- and told me it meant the Kiel Canal, which might tie up with another verse she had which was "The Germans sank the Lusitania etc."
Needless to say that verse had disappeared by the time of my playground days in the 1950s!


29 Jul 11 - 05:17 PM (#3198133)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST, topsie

We played 'The big ship sails through the alley alley oh' in Somerset in the 1950s, but no dusty bluebells - our version was 'In and out the windows' but the game was much the same, a ring of children holding up their arms to make arches and one going round, in and out of the arches, but I can't remembered what happened next.
There was also 'The Farmer's in his Den' with one child being the farmer, surrounded by a ring of children singing, followed by 'the farmer wants a wife' (a wife would be chosen from the ring of children, then 'the wife wants a dog' (a 'dog' would be chosen), then 'the dog wants a bone' (a 'bone' would be chosen), and 'we all pat the bone' (the circle breaks up and everyone attempts to pat the child chosen to be the 'bone'.


01 Jan 13 - 04:02 AM (#3459883)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Maureen Jaeche

I live in Australia, was born in Liverpool UK and stayed there until I was nearly sixteen, am now closer to eighty than seventy, and googled the big ship, to try to find its origins. I'm sure it is an historical reference to the sinking of a sailing ship, but no luck on the origins. The last verse we sang when I was a small child was, We all jump down to the bottom of the sea. Whichever vessel it was, the Atlantic, the alley between the Americas and Britain, would seem to be correct, the date we sang was the 19th of September.


01 Jan 13 - 06:37 AM (#3459914)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,mayomick

I heard or read somewhere that it was French in origin - "Illy" was Ile and "o" "eau" .


01 Jan 13 - 01:03 PM (#3460032)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Rumncoke

When this was played in the playground in Barnsley now in South Yorkshire, at the end the leader closed the circle by taking the hand of the girl at the wall so that everyone was facing outwards with arms crossed in front of them, and then whirled the circle around - clockwise, faster and faster until someone lost their grip and that usually resulted in tripping and falling, lots of scraped knees and bruised heads.

I suspect that it might not have been the traditional way of ending the game and that the circling should have been done differently.

In 'the farmer in the dell' the farmer chooses a wife, who then chooses a child, who chooses a dog, who chooses a bone, and then everyone tries to pat the bone. That could get pretty rough too with the poor bone being battered rather than patted.

I think the verses had the big ship sails, rocks, flounders (should be founders I think) on the allie allie oh, then the Captain says this will never never do, then the big ship sinks to the bottom of the sea.

The movements were three steps and a swinging up and lowering of the joined hands

the big ship sails (three steps, turn towards centre of loop)
on the allie allie oh (raise and lower hands, turn to face in direction of travel)
on the allie allie oh (three steps, turn)
the allie allie oh (raise and lower hands, turn)

and so on.


01 Jan 13 - 03:10 PM (#3460119)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Trish

I alway knew the Dusty Bluebells as children's game and went as follows:

Also known as In and out of the Scottish bluebells or Dusky bluebells.

Everyone stands in a circle, holding hands and raising their arms to make a series of arches. One person is IT and skips in and out of the arches. At the same time, the circle sings:

In and out of the dusty bluebells,
In and out of the dusty bluebells,
In and out of the dusty bluebells,
I am your master

Then, the person who is IT stops behind a member of the circle and the circle sings:

Give a little pit-a-pat on her shoulder,
Give a little pit-a-pat on her shoulder,
Give a little pit-a-pat on her shoulder,
I am your master

Whoever has been patted on the shoulder stands behind IT and holds onto their waist.

They then skip in and out of the arches together while the circle sings, with the person behind holding on to the leader's waist.

The chain gets longer and longer until there are not enough people to form the circle.


01 Jan 13 - 03:15 PM (#3460121)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Trish

Just did a quick search and got the below, don't know if it's true or not:

Rhyme & History

THE BIG SHIP SAILS ON THE ALLY-ALLY-OH

The big ship sails on the ally-ally-oh
The ally-ally-oh, the ally-ally-oh
Oh, the big ship sails on the ally-ally-oh
On the last day of September.

The captain said it will never, never do
Never, never do, never, never do
The captain said it will never, never do
On the last day of September.

The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
The bottom of the sea, the bottom of the sea
The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
On the last day of September.

We all dip our heads in the deep blue sea
The deep blue sea, the deep blue sea
We all dip our heads in the deep blue sea
On the last day of September.

The words of the Nursery Rhyme and children's song, 'The big ship sails... ' have been suggested by Kevin Dinnin. Little is known about the origins of the song, but we have speculated on possible origins

The big ship sails
Nursery Rhyme lyrics, origins and history

Nursery Rhyme Origins

The rhyme and song was often sang by children playing skipping games, the lyrics suited the ritual chants for children 'jumping in' the skipping ropes. Perhaps the term 'big ships' provide a clue to the origins.  The Manchester Ship canal was opened in 1894 and is the eighth-longest ship canal in the world, being only slightly shorter than the Panama Canal in Central America. The MSC was built for ocean-going ships - there were only six ships in the world too big to use the Ship Canal. These big ships started their journeys on the canal which led to the sea.  The Manchester Ship Canal connected Manchester, W England, with the Mersey estuary at Eastham, Birkenhead. Perhaps this is the origin of the song...

Info supplied by Kevin Dinnin
 


09 Mar 13 - 08:45 AM (#3488348)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST

When I was a kid in Newfoundland, we would "thread, thread, the grandmother's needle" - everyone holding hands, with the leader going under the arch of a person next to the wall. As we continued singing the leader would go under the second set of hands, then third, etc, until everyone was turned backward with their arms crossed. Then the two open people joined to make a circle, where everyone is holding hands arms crossed. We jumped up and down singing the "Big ship sails on the alley-alley-oh, the alley-alley oh-"


10 Nov 15 - 04:42 PM (#3749906)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: Steve Gardham

If Karrie is still around (March 09) your reference to the old journal version would have been extremely helpful here had you given us at least a rough date when it was written.

Going by other postings it would appear to predate the opening of the Ship Canal and the sinking of the Lusitania (1912), although a Lusitania version did definitely exist.

The tune is also used for a much older children's singing game 'Old Roger is Dead' and then of course it was adopted in WWI for the words of 'The Old Barbed Wire'.


20 Aug 17 - 04:00 PM (#3872816)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Jeremy

A suggestion I have come across is that it is a reference to the loss of the Steam Ship Arctic on 27th September 1854, en route from Liverpool to New York - accounts indicate that this had the same public impact as the loss of the Titanic half a century later: see https://poll.pollcode.com/93816625_result and https://www.thoughtco.com/the-sinking-of-the-steamship-arctic-1774002 .

And then a case I think of memory fading fast, but the song going on forever.

Progress provides for greater and worse disasters...


30 Aug 17 - 07:09 AM (#3874286)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Fran

I sang this song in the playground at primary school in Stockport in the early 60s.
We would gather anyone whovwanted to play by walking around the playground chanting "all join on if you want to play 'The Big Ship Sails'.
We all got in a line holding hands. The person at the end put their hand against the wall. The person at the other end led the line under the arm of the person at the wall. They would then go round again leading the line under each persons arm in turn in the line. This resulted in each person having to turn around and their arms would be crossed. Once all arms were crossed the two ends would join to make a circle as we all faced inwards (a bit of a difficult manoeuvre). We continued to sing thd first verse. We would still be holding hands with our arms crossed as we would then shake them up and down. We would sing the second verse and shake our heads the third verse we'd shake our arms up and down. For the last verse we would dip our heads.
The big ship sails on the alley alley o
The alley alley o (×2)
The big ship sails on the alley alley o
on the last day of September.

The captain said this will never never do
Never never do (×2)
The captain said this will never never do
on the last day of September.

The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
Bottom of the sea (×2)
The big ship sank to the bottom of the sea
on the last day of September.

We all dip our heads in the deep blue sea
Deep blue sea(×2)
We all dip our heads in the deep blue sea
on the last day of September.


28 Sep 17 - 10:38 PM (#3879217)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Lorraine

We sang this song in the playground in Melbourne, Australia in the early 60s.
No English links that I know of at that time but it had to start somewhere.
It often pops into my head as I walk on the beach near Port Phillip Bay heads and see the ships and pilot boats pass through.
Kinda appropriate today.
Thanks for all the details and rememberances.
No to pass it on to the grandchildren....


27 Mar 20 - 08:38 PM (#4042520)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GeoffLawes

I watched the 1960's British film " A Taste of Honey " on TV the other night and it featured a lot of children's street songs and this was one of them. Here is a link to a piece of film in the British Library of children singing the song and performing the dance in London 1957.

https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/the-big-ship-sailed-1957


12 Jun 21 - 09:34 AM (#4109822)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST

“Illee.. Allee…oh” was the lyric I learned in Glasgow tenements 60 years ago -
I am fully resonating with the French theory .. at first when I looked this old children’s thread the needle game song up and saw references to “Alley Alley oh” I thought I’d misremembered. This surprised me as sounds and music are obsessively remembered by me.

I also lived and worked in France and “there in the water” (il y a l’eau) OF COURSE is what we sung as kids. I have pas du doubt


26 Jul 22 - 05:27 AM (#4148408)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST,Dom

I grew up in New Zealand 1950s. I remember the words "cold and frosty morning" as part of The Big Ship sails... song. I do not recall any game attached to it.


15 Aug 23 - 09:25 PM (#4179288)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: GerryM

This song was sung at the Mudcat Worldwide Zoom singaround of 15/16 August 2023, but, unlike all the versions in this thread, the date of all the events was given as "the 19th of September".


08 Oct 24 - 05:25 AM (#4209423)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: Thompson

It was always illy-alley-o in Ireland too, and the last day of September; I don't remember any other verses, though.
Maybe the tune would be a candidate for the haunting melody section?


08 Oct 24 - 05:55 AM (#4209425)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: Georgiansilver

This is a link to the song as I learnt it when young    the song with lyrics added, https://youtu.be/ZIqoPO2wU34?si=enxV7cnuJJ6wnh6e


08 Oct 24 - 10:03 AM (#4209435)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: Thompson

Interesting, Georgiansilver; when we sang it, the rhythm was much more pronounced, and it was a fast skipping song:
The bigship sails onthe illyally-o…


09 Oct 24 - 01:09 PM (#4209519)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: GUEST

The captain was drunk and so were the crew...

The ship sprang a leak and they all got damp...


10 Oct 24 - 10:43 AM (#4209566)
Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Big Ship Sails
From: John MacKenzie

It's the opening tune on this film, and features later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdpXTFy3zlw