Why are morris dancers under threat from

18 Jun 13 - 11:57 AM (#3527547)
Subject: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: GUEST,Jim Martin

Why are morris dancers under threat from a shortage of irons?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/shortcuts/2013/jun/16/morris-dancers-threat-shortage-irons

---

18 Jun 13 - 12:42 PM (#3527563)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Chris Partington

They're not, but the Guardian may be under threat from piss-poor inaccurate under-researched journalism.

---

18 Jun 13 - 12:47 PM (#3527566)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Richard Bridge

Stupid ignorant twunts.

---

18 Jun 13 - 06:16 PM (#3527674)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Vic Smith

Chris Partington

They're not, but the Guardian may be under threat from piss-poor inaccurate under-researched journalism. - 

---

18 Jun 13 - 10:21 PM (#3527755)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Kampervan

Gosh, fancy finding poor, under-researched, inaccurate comment on Mudcat!!

K/van

---

18 Jun 13 - 11:24 PM (#3527763)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: JohnInKansas

Or comment that criticizes without saying what's wrong with someone else's comment?? ...

Is the report wrong because there is no shortage of irons?

Is the report wrong because Morris Dancers don't actually need irons?

What the f**k does an iron look like?

Interested people who know less about the art (or whatever it is??) would perhaps really care to know.

And some of us who don't really give a sh*t might even be mildly curious.

John

---

19 Jun 13 - 12:50 AM (#3527775)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Gurney

Like a human-sized horse-shoe, John. In the days when boots were repairable, they were often iron-shod on sole and heel, even (or especially) children's boots.

Morrismen are traditionalists.

---

19 Jun 13 - 01:58 AM (#3527785)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: SteveMansfield

Amongst the things wrong with the article ...

The statement that 'Morris is dying out' was a press release by The Morris Ring a couple of years ago. What it actually meant was 'we are failing to attract any new members to our particular narrow 1930s Peter Kennedy and Ralf Gardiner approved/dictated vision of the Morris, and because we don't recognise any other form as true and pure Morris, therefore Morris is dying out'. Members of Open Morris, the Morris Federation, and all the unaffilated border, north-west, cotswold, molly etc sides see things rather differently. Or, to simplify, Morris Ring != all Morris.

The majority of sides do not even dance in irons. Those sides that do (mainly mens North-West sides) will be severely affected by a shortage of irons, and I certainly do not mean to demean the effect a shortage will have on them - but saying that 'all Morris is in crisis because of a shortage of irons' is like saying 'all music is in crisis because Beyonce has lost her voice'.

There are no doubt many other flaws and lazy stereotypes in the piece, but I think those are the two main issues ...

---

19 Jun 13 - 01:59 AM (#3527786)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: MGM·Lion

Isn't it funny how the rest of the world unquestioningly believes that the locution "Hey nonny no" occurs ubiquitously thruout folklore, when the only actual instance that I can think of occurs in a song wrote by Will in As You Like It. An unshakeable near-universal misapprehension.

Very strange!

~M~

---

19 Jun 13 - 02:39 AM (#3527787)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: JohnInKansas

So Morris Dancers (in the north) mug little kids who tap dance and swipe their shoes?

Of course here even the kids usually give up that particular style of dancing by the time they're about 6 y.o., so maybe they'd have to mug a dozen little buggers to get an iron for each toe? (Assuming 5 toes per foot.)

"Heel taps" (the name in the comic book ads) were fairly common here, for kids, up to about the mid '50s, to avoid "run down heels," but toe taps for general wear were rare a long time before then.

Since making a horse shoe was always a "beginners lesson" for any blacksmith, it would seem like even a rank amateur with a propane torch (or maybe a MAPP?) and something to beat on should be able to make something pretty authentic in short order.

Of course it would be more fun to re-create a 500 year old smithy forge and all the trimmin's, but I don't have a good photo of how those were set up.

John

---

19 Jun 13 - 05:19 AM (#3527825)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Mo the caller

It's alright. Someone told them.

"• The picture caption was amended on 18 June to clarify that morris dancers in the north-west traditionally wear irons. In the south dancers more commonly wear bells."

---

19 Jun 13 - 05:49 AM (#3527834)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Jack Campin

If a paper can get it that wrong about a cultural phenomenon that happens a few miles from their office and which we can check up on, why should we believe a word of what they say about the Shiites of Syria, the Christian fundamentalists of the US, the Vatican or the G8 politicians?

---

19 Jun 13 - 05:58 AM (#3527838)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Uncle Tone

Its 'ironic' isn't it?

Tone

---

19 Jun 13 - 06:03 AM (#3527840)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Dave the Gnome

Just lazy journalism and a reflection of the Media's view of English traditions. If newspapers and the TV can take the piss out of English traditions is it any wonder that they do not get the support they deserve. I urge you all to write to the Guardian and let them know it is a stupid thing to do.

Cheers

DtG

---

19 Jun 13 - 06:05 AM (#3527842)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Green Man

Morris men are under threat from themselves.

As long as they run the Morris like a big boys club it will decline.

If it was not for women maintaining the tradition over wartime periods it probably would be in a much worse state.

The Morris Ring have their ideas and the rest don't.

I much prefer Border or Cotswold to the c loggers but they do have their place and they dress up in strange outfits (even for Morris people)

I think we are dying out in a demographic sense as we as a group are failing to attract young people to continue the tradition.

---

19 Jun 13 - 06:16 AM (#3527846)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Vic Smith

Jack Campin wrote:-
" why should we believe a word of what they say about the Shiites of Syria, the Christian fundamentalists of the US, the Vatican or the G8 politicians?"
Hmm! I could not call myself an expert on any of the subjects that Jack mentions, but a do know a great deal about The Gambia and I know that the article on the politics of that country that appeared in the same edition as the morris article was full of inaccuracies.

One small point in favour of the morris article; it is in their Shortcuts series which regular Guardianistas will know are piss-takes in an attempt to be what they would call "funny".

Not read the morris article in full? Then click here

---

19 Jun 13 - 07:13 AM (#3527861)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: GUEST,Grishka

Playing on clichés, in spite of better knowledge, is a holy tradition of English humour, under threat from various directions but still going strong. I enjoyed the text.

---

19 Jun 13 - 10:05 AM (#3527909)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: GUEST,Eliza

I'm completely obsessive about any kind of Morris dancing. I've been to a Morris Ring large event in Wells, Somerset, and nearly cried with emotion watching the dancing in front of Wells Cathedral. I've been to the Straw Bear in Whittlesea and nearly died of cold, but stayed to the last minute to see all the varieties of Morris, Molly, NW Clog, Sword Rappers Border Morris and Mummers' plays etc. I go each year to Sheringham's Potty Festival and get all choked up again. I can't for the life of me understand why people take the weewee. There's nothing intrinsically daft or weedy about it at all; it requires great strength and vigour to dance like that, not to mention concentration and practice . Morris folk are fantastically kind and friendly, with a lovely spirit of inclusiveness.If some people don't like it, well, fine. But many of us adore it, it gives us enormous pleasure and fun, and I will personally poke anyone's eyes out if they deride it to me!!

---

19 Jun 13 - 10:40 AM (#3527917)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Uncle Tone

"Morris folk are fantastically kind and friendly."

Are they always?

When the new Cottonmill Morris (mixed NW from St Albans) once danced for a wedding in Loughborough, two 'heavies' from the local morris ring threatened to prevent their Squire from letting his side dance on their territory, without their permission, and with (horror of horrors) women dancing!

As it happened they could not muster their threatened reinforcements so we won the day, to the delight of the locals. To be fair to any Leicestershire Morris Ring members now, this was back in 1979, when the Open Ring was but a babe.

You do your thing. We'll do ours, but we're on common ground, was the answer to them.

The Morris Ring is not the Mafia or the Gestapo, as those idiots seemed to think. Nor do they own morris dancing!

Back on topic. Yes, we did dance in irons.

Tone (First Cottonmill Clog Morris Squire)

---

19 Jun 13 - 04:59 PM (#3528056)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Noreen

Green Man says I think we are dying out in a demographic sense as we as a group are failing to attract young people to continue the tradition.

If you'd have been at Chippenham Festival a few weeks ago you'd think differently- while there were lots of us oldies (who have more time to do such things once family responsibilities have passed) there were countless young dancers who impressed greatly with their energy and enthusiasm.
Just for example, look up National Youth Folklore Troupe of England who danced in and out and alongside and around the rest of us on the parade through the town :)

There's plenty of youth involved, if you go out and look for it instead of believing Morris Ring propaganda.

---

19 Jun 13 - 05:56 PM (#3528071)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: GUEST,Peter

I think we are dying out in a demographic sense as we as a group are failing to attract young people to continue the tradition.

Just old farts like these?

---

20 Jun 13 - 09:25 AM (#3528268)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Vic Smith

One of the best of the dance sides in our area is Plumpton Black Brook and, no, you can't join unless you happen to be a member of that village's junior school.

---

20 Jun 13 - 09:29 AM (#3528269)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Vic Smith

Plumpton Black Brook Morris

---

20 Jun 13 - 10:30 AM (#3528288)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: The Sandman

vic , that is great news.

---

20 Jun 13 - 10:35 AM (#3528290)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: The Sandman

well done all involved in plumpton black brook morris.
WHERE are the EFDSS? are they doing anything like this on a national scale, I understand they may be doing isolated projects, which must be good but in my opinion this should be happening on a national basis.

---

22 Jun 13 - 10:06 AM (#3529016)
Subject: RE: Why are morris dancers under threat from
From: Vic Smith

See Paul Davenport from Yorkshire and his contribution to the idea that there are no young ritual dancers.

---