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BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama

16 Mar 14 - 11:58 PM (#3610153)
Subject: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

MOSCOW, March 16 (Reuters) - A Kremlin-backed journalist issued a stark warning to the United States about Moscow's nuclear capabilities on Sunday as the White House threatened sanctions over Crimea's referendum on union with Russia.

"Russia is the only country in the world that is realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," television presenter Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly current affairs show.

Behind him was a backdrop of a mushroom cloud following a nuclear blast.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/ukraine-crisis-russia-kiselyov-idUSL6N0MD0P920140316

The Crimea just voted by a 90+% majority to rejoin Russia, but what do they know? The American-backed fascists in the Ukraine know better. And Obama knows best of all. Thank you for forcing World War 3, Mr. Obama. We support your eugenics and genocide programs, but they're just not enough to save the planet, are they? We need some SERIOUS population reduction. A cloud of nuclear waste settling over Mother Earth will be just what the doctor ordered. I hope you and yours make it to the bunker in time, and I just wanted you to know before you push the Love Button that we worship you. You've taught us about the important things in life, like to always focus on a person's skin color first, while you killed us off for our own good. Thank you.


17 Mar 14 - 12:33 AM (#3610161)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Jack the Sailor

Lol

Russ Limbaugh?


17 Mar 14 - 05:29 AM (#3610195)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,CS

The US is not going to simply give up that 5 billion they invested in destabalising the region for the sake of securing it as a future NATO base.

Good grounded piece here on the situation from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/opinion/getting-ukraine-wrong.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


17 Mar 14 - 07:08 AM (#3610215)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,Troubadour

I'd like to know how SW makes the leap from a stupid comment by a TV presenter, to World War 3.

Does he really believe there is any chance of that, in the face of the knowledge that there would certainly be two, or more, piles of radioactive ash, and that the USA would have missiles to spare at the end?

NOBODY is going to push THAT button matey!

National suicide is NOT an option.

I duuno! .....Freakin' paranoiacs are everywhere in the US!


17 Mar 14 - 09:55 AM (#3610248)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

ShitWringer strikes again. Whoopee.


17 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM (#3610281)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Rapparee

North Korea fired 25 missiles into the Eastern Sea/Sea of Japan yesterday. They always take advantage of things like this.


17 Mar 14 - 11:27 AM (#3610289)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Kim Jong Un doesn't need any pretexts or things to take advantage of.


17 Mar 14 - 12:33 PM (#3610310)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Jack the Sailor

25 fewer missiles to drop on Seoul.


17 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM (#3610345)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Amos

Dear Songwronger:

Your thinkerator is bolloxed up, twisted, dehydrated and also fooked. This series of internal catastrophes has left you no better than an eejit.

Get help.

A


18 Mar 14 - 12:40 AM (#3610488)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek

Half a league, half a league, half a league onward....

History, folks. Russia wants warm water ports for trade & their navy. The only way to get them is to take them... if they can... cause they ain't got none in Russia. The Empire is striking back... or the way they see it, regaining their lost glory...

Warm port means the Black Sea... first Crimea and then onward to Odessa. Just like they did 200 plus years ago.


18 Mar 14 - 10:14 AM (#3610560)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Yup. Just like the U.S. did with the Panama Canal & etc.

Oh, them evil Rooshuns..................


18 Mar 14 - 10:39 AM (#3610569)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek

as they say in selling real estate... location location location.

Russian doesn't give a hoot about ethnic Russians in the Ukraine... they have quite the impressive record of killing off their own people at a politcal whim. But they do care about acquiring territory... especially territory that brings them gains in other areas.

England fought the Crimean War to prevent Russia from gaining access to ports on the Black Sea... ports that are navigable year round and could be used to reach the Mediterranean Sea & then the Atlantic.

So it doesn't matter to them what world opinion is... they are looking for that first "slice of baloney" to start them on their path to "retoring" the Russian Empire. More "dreams of grandeur" from yet another would be "czar"... just the title has changed, not the ambition.


18 Mar 14 - 11:52 AM (#3610587)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

This Obama guy is very powerful and effective - being alone responsible for every ill in the world - in the past, now and into the future. He must have good genes? No wonder he got a vote into a second term.


18 Mar 14 - 12:07 PM (#3610599)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Stilly River Sage

Bush put the U.S. in the weak position it holds now, by the nonsense of invading Iraq. It was bad enough to invade Afghanistan, but at least he had the sympathy vote there. Now with the Iraq mess on our hands there is no moral high ground from which to scold Russia.

There is moral high ground to scold Songwronger for all of his sour puss postings. Why not just start one Songwronger Hates Obama and Liberal thinking people threads and be done with it.

SRS


18 Mar 14 - 01:32 PM (#3610636)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

War? Hooray!

Get rid of surplus populations of humans.

We Ants will take over.


18 Mar 14 - 06:15 PM (#3610708)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: akenaton

Excellent link and summary CS.....Thank you.


18 Mar 14 - 09:43 PM (#3610744)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

Internal catastrophes, Amos? Please. The western powers have always meddled in the Ukraine. Obama racked up Tunisia, Egypt and Libya as fairly easy wins (Twitter Revolutions), but he's in the big league now. Some people say he's shrewd, some say crazy, and I tend to go with crazy like a fuck. If I had the time I'd hunt up the youtube clip of him describing his coked-out youth in Hawaii. He actually describes (in his own voice) his drug use for the audiobook version of his Big Lie autobiography. He's just a fucking cokehead who thinks he can outmaneuver a country of chess masters. The other day someone said he makes Jimmy Carter look like Churchill.


18 Mar 14 - 09:56 PM (#3610747)
Subject: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Songwronger

Brought this up in a thread that just got zapped, but how DO you people listen to National Public Radio?

The way I understand the history of radio, the UK decided to go with a state sponsored system, and the US went with a commercial system. The same later applied to television. Radio and "telly" in the UK are paid for by the government through licensing fees, but commercial sponsorship pays the bills in the US.

And then there's National Public Radio, in the US. It receives government subsidies, grants from big, shady "philanthropist" organizations, and money from public donations. Supposedly this makes it "non-partisan," but it is anything but.

It is basically a running ad for the Democratic Party in America. Not that there's much difference between Democrat and Republican fascism, but the Democrats generate their power from divisiveness. They constantly pit white against black, male against female, rich against poor. Polarization sells.

Today I listened to NPR for an hour or so, and half of the stories had a racial component. Plus there was lots of man hating, rich vs poor and so on. Pukey, divisive stories. Made me feel really glum, so I do wonder, how do you people who listen to that stuff all the time stomach it?


18 Mar 14 - 10:08 PM (#3610751)
Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Jack the Sailor

I have my car radio set to 101.3

My favorite shows are science and comedy.


18 Mar 14 - 10:26 PM (#3610755)
Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Bill D

How DO you listen to Faux News? It is basically a running ad for the Republican Party in America... no wait.. it is basically a shill for the Koch Brothers.

ok, that's enough time jousting with trolls


18 Mar 14 - 10:29 PM (#3610757)
Subject: RE: BS: How can you listen to NPR?
From: Rapparee

I just push the first button on my car radio's system. Brings it right up.


19 Mar 14 - 01:15 AM (#3610773)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

NPR seems to have nothing going for it but racism. The crap I heard today was pretty disgusting. Yak yak yak about race race race. Even the people I heard interviewed (minorities) were sick of the race crap. They know they're being used to advance the agenda of George Soros and other so-called liberals (Soros narked on his neighbors to the Nazis when he was growing up). And he's got billions to invest now, but he needs you distracted by skin color so he can add to his fortune.

Does NPR report on how blacks in America make up about 12% of the population, yet 43% of America's abortions are conducted on black mothers? Genocide against blacks. I bet NPR would present that bit of information as a "woman's empowerment" piece.

What I heard today promoted racism, divisiveness, hatred, "wars of liberation" and all kinds of foul stuff. As foul as anything the Limbaugh crowd spouts.


19 Mar 14 - 08:19 AM (#3610825)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad

Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs


19 Mar 14 - 09:27 AM (#3610847)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek

So now Russian supporters have taken over the naval base ... oh, what a shock... NOT!

It merely shows a bit of their hand... they want those warm water ports and now they have one. the question is - will they keep it?


19 Mar 14 - 09:43 AM (#3610853)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: artbrooks

In fact, the Russians have had a treaty that gives them the right to base their Black Sea Fleet at Sevastepol (established by the czars in the late 18th century) until 2042. What they seized yesterday was the Ukranian portion of the joint base.


19 Mar 14 - 10:09 AM (#3610864)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek

so in effect they now have total control as opposed to partial...

one more slice of baloney...


19 Mar 14 - 11:21 AM (#3610886)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: mg

It is a very serious situation...


19 Mar 14 - 11:35 AM (#3610893)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: sciencegeek

the ghosts of Stalin & Khrushchev are channeling through... next comes out the shoe?


19 Mar 14 - 08:00 PM (#3611018)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: kendall

I wonder if Putin knows how we acquired Hawaii? Hoe many Americans know? Or, how we acquired Texas?

Let he who is without sin cast the first ICBM.


20 Mar 14 - 06:33 AM (#3611094)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

As this is the only current thread on the Ukraine debacle, here's the latest on the current far-right thugs in "government" there:

"Earlier on Tuesday, MPs from the Svoboda All-Ukrainian Union forced Acting Director of the National Television Company of Ukraine Oleksandr Panteleimoniv to file a letter of resignation.
Footage posted on the Internet shows how MPs forced Panteleimonov to tender his resignation, beating him on the face and the head.
Svoboda MP Ihor Miroshnichenko accused Panteleimonov of constant lies on the channel during pro-EU demonstrations. Then about 20 people pushed Panteleimonov into a SUV and took him in an unknown direction." Source

"Footage posted on the Internet shows how MPs forced Panteleimonov to tender his resignation, beating him on the face and the head"

Watch from 4:30

Here
the Guardian says: "Russian officials have repeatedly claimed that the new interim government in Kiev is run by radicals and "neo-Nazis", and the actions by the Svoboda MP will play into their hands."

Playing "into their hands"? Or just demonstrating that actually they happen to be right?

CS


20 Mar 14 - 09:53 AM (#3611142)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad

Our far-right thugs have the right to invade and annex the territory of your far right thugs.


20 Mar 14 - 11:04 AM (#3611165)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,CS

"the territory of your far right thugs."

As they have taken power through force, I'm not sure that those far-right thugs have a legitimate claim to any territory, let alone political authority over another elected parliament. At least that seems to be the opinion of the people of 'The Autonomous Republic of Crimea', who some days ago rejected the self-appointed unelected 'government' there and voted to secede from the Ukraine and back into Russia. Good luck to them, at least now they won't have to endure the EU's 'austerity' policies I suppose.


20 Mar 14 - 12:45 PM (#3611179)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad

"As they have taken power through force..."

Actually Yanukovych was removed from power by a majority vote of parliament on February 22.


20 Mar 14 - 01:30 PM (#3611210)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Far right, far left, Russians applaud Putin's takeover.

Very little can be done about it. The EU obtains a third of their petroleum from Russia, and it would be impossible to find sufficient un-contracted petroleum from other sources in the short term, plus add the additional cost of shipped product as contrasted with the much cheaper pipelines Russian source.

Look for Russian moves in the Baltic in the future, as well as in central Asia.


20 Mar 14 - 01:42 PM (#3611220)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,Stringsinger

The issue here is that Cargill, Agribusiness, Monsanto and other bloated and destructive corporations have a vested interest in the Ukraine, sponsored by the US government,
wanting to rub Putin's nose in their "Manifest Destiny".

Obama is a tool of the military industrial complex and advocate for the corporate state,
positions of which he must maintain if he is to stay alive. Remember what was done to MLK.

Putin, not to be trusted, is being made a hero to the Russian people as he severs ties to the Ukraine, adopting a victim status, rationalizing his intervention, though as he has stated, thinks that the dissolution of the USSR "was a disaster". Putin is another Soviet apparatchik.


20 Mar 14 - 03:39 PM (#3611254)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Ho hum. The usual blather from an economic non-contributor.


20 Mar 14 - 04:25 PM (#3611266)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

So, Q - you maintain that economics & global corporateprofit has nothing to do with the situation?

Please elaborate.


20 Mar 14 - 11:26 PM (#3611365)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow

A territory claimed by a neighbouring country - a claim recognised by most countries in the continent where it is situated - has a population who prefer to belong to another far stronger country. The stronger country, which is in control of the territory, organises a referendum asking the inhabitants what they want, and they vote overwhelmingly to belong to that country.

The neighbouring country objects, and most other countries in the relevant continent agree with the objection, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Where does justice lie? Depends whether we're talking about Ukraine or the Falklands, I suppose.


20 Mar 14 - 11:29 PM (#3611366)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow

A territory claimed by a neighbouring country - a claim recognised by most countries in the continent where it is situated - has a population who prefer to belong to another far stronger country. The stronger country, which is in control of the territory, organises a referendum asking the inhabitants what they want, and they vote overwhelmingly to belong to that country.

The neighbouring country objects, and most other countries in the relevant continent agree with the objection, but there is nothing they can do about it.

Where does justice lie? Depends whether we're talking about Crimea or the Falklands, I suppose.


21 Mar 14 - 08:30 AM (#3611474)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Teribus

"In fact, the Russians have had a treaty that gives them the right to base their Black Sea Fleet at Sevastepol (established by the czars in the late 18th century) until 2042. What they seized yesterday was the Ukranian portion of the joint base." - artbrooks

That was what was behind all of this. When the Ukraine was granted independence with the dissolution of the USSR, in 1997 a twenty year lease was given to the Russians for the naval base in the Crimea. With Ukraine looking increasingly towards the west it looked like the lease would not be extended. So Putin needed a pro-Russian Government in charge of the Ukraine - enter Viktor Yanukovych.

Yanukovych won his election on the promise that he would sign a deal for further co-operation with the EU. Russia threatened to cut off Ukraine's supply of discounted oil and gas (That being how they had agreeed to pay for the bases in the Crimea) unless Yanukovych signed a deal for closer ties with Putin's Russia. With a pro-Russian Government in power in the Ukraine then the extension of the lease for the bases to 2042 would be guaranteed.

The people of the Ukraine however demonstrated with such vigour that Yanukovych fled the country, leaving behind a perfectly legitimate elected Government, who considered the situation and impeached Yanukovych and threw him out of office and stripped him of his powers. An interim administration was set up to organise new elections - a pro-Russian Government is now not so likely so Putin had to act.

Down on the Crimean Peninsula groups of heavily armed men in Russian military uniforms showing no insignia of rank or unit, carrying Russian arms, with transport bearing Russian number plates start appearing at strategic places effecting a lock down. A referendum is hastily organised specifically geared to deliver only one answer and all of a sudden the Crimea becomes Russian territory. Same sort of thing was engineered with South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008 only with GWB sitting in the chair Putin didn't have the balls to annex them, dare say he will get round to it eventually.

Bit of a moment of truth for the USA, NATO and the EU. Certainly a wake-up call just as Munich was in 1938. The Russian oligarch Alexander Lebedev made some interesting comments on BBC this morning. When asked about sanctions against Russia, he said that they were not necessary, as the US could freeze Russia out and deny it access to loan capital. The west could purchase energy from elsewhere in the short term and Russia would crumble economically very quickly. The trouble with having a "pipeline economy" is that you are only making money whilst you are selling the product.


21 Mar 14 - 09:12 AM (#3611488)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow

One way in which the new government in Kiev acted remarkably stupidly was to remove the right of regions to give Russian ( or other minority languages) official status. That was an invitation to people in Crimea especially to feel they were threatened.

Crimea was of course part of Russia for far longer than it has been in Ukraine - and until the break-up of the Soviet Union its transfer in 1954 without any consultation with the inhabitants was a trivial enough change.

I would suggest that until this crisis blew up pretty well everyone outside the two countries involved assumed that Crimea was Russian, insofar as they didn't mix it up with Korea, the way that many people in Britain tended to confuse the Falklands with the Shetlands when that one hit the headlines back in the 80s.

The most sensible way to resolve this would be for rapid elections to give the new government greater legitimacy, and for the law attacking the status of Russian and other minority languages to be reversed. And they need to get rid of antisemitic and near fascists from anywhere near government.

As for Crimea, it should be accepted that the people there should have the right to decide what country they live in. If a fresh referendum with international observers would help, that should be agreed by Russia, and allowed to take place, as a face-saving exercise. It is hardly possible that the result would be different.


21 Mar 14 - 10:07 AM (#3611508)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Teribus

Any transfer of the status of the Crimean Peninsula by a treaty dating back to 1783 has to be agreed by Turkey. In 1991 when Ukraine became a sovereign state that included the Crimea Turkey stated that they had no objections and did not wish to take part in any discussions or negotiations on it PROVIDED the rights of the indigenous Muslim Tatars were respected. Joseph Stalin had all but exterminated them or forcibly moved them to Gulags in 1944, but after Ukraine gained its independence they started to return, they now form about 14% of the peninsulas population.

Having had their staged and rigged referendum on the 16th March the following was decreed by the pro-Russian Crimean Government on the 18th March, 2014:

"On March 18, It was announced that Crimean Tatars will be required to relinquish land that they hold and be given land elsewhere in Crimea. Crimea stated it needed the relinquished land for "Social purposes"

Now in any country with any respect for human rights that would be called - THEFT


21 Mar 14 - 01:12 PM (#3611578)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Teribus, the announcement concerting the few Tatars left in Crimea sounds like one of the "offers" made to Palestinians by Israel.
Of course the Russians, with a majority of the Crimean population now of Russian extraction, will have little problem with opposition from within Crimea.

The minor sanctions applied so far show that there will be no substantive penalties from the EU or the U. S. A.


21 Mar 14 - 01:47 PM (#3611592)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

According to a look at the history of sanctions by the BBC business correspondent, Linda Yueh, major sanctions have had results in 30 percent of the cases.

The question still is, will large-scale sanctions be imposed, and what will be the effect, not only on Russia, but on the economies of the countries imposing the sanctions?
The effect may be to cause a change in Russia's economic partners, and some think that would be better for Russia than the current relationships.
The BRICS especially China, would be major partners.

The Moscow stock market is on the upswing, although the ratings for Russia have decreased moderately in western Europe and North America.
If an escalation of tensions occurs, financial markets will be affected.

Unless Putin pushes into eastern Ukraine, major actions by the EU and NATO countries is unlikely.
Germany's decision will be the one most watched.


21 Mar 14 - 03:07 PM (#3611623)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow

If any transfer of sovereignty of Crimea has to be cleared with Turkey, as Teribus says, the question would arise whether that was done back in 1954" when Kruschev reallocated it to Ukraine. If not presumably that transfer wasn't legal, and it's really been Russian all along.


21 Mar 14 - 07:34 PM (#3611689)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

I doubt that Turkey will do more than comment noisily.


21 Mar 14 - 09:46 PM (#3611717)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

The Crimea is just a sideshow. The main attraction is the enslavement of the Ukraine by western banks. From The Activist Post:

IMF Plans Massive Austerity for Ukraine According to Crimea Leaders

If statements made by Deputy Prime Minister of Crimea, Olga Kovitidi, are to be taken as truth, the future of Ukrainians living under the yoke of Fascists, the European Union, and the IMF will be yet another example of the imposition of extreme austerity measures and national impoverishment that is the fruit of alignment with those institutions.

The Western-backed coup government in Kiev, of course, has already gone begging to the IMF for financial help after it turned its back on a much better loan offered by Russia. The conditions of the IMF loans are, as always, extreme levels of austerity measures and privatization of public services and assets.

Kovitidi, however, provides much more specific information regarding the nature of the IMF conditionalities.

The Deputy Prime Minister claims that the tentative IMF agreement involves handing over the entire country's gas pipeline for free to the American company Chevron. She also claims that the owners of the Mariupol, Zaporizhzhya, and Dnipropetrovsk steel mills will be required to give up 50% of the ownership stakes to German company Ruhr.

The Finnish subsidiary of Ruhr, according to Kovitidi, will inherit the Donbass coal industry.

Kovitidi also stated that Crimean leaders have discovered that Kiev has promised Western financial interests that it will impose "unpopular measures in order to fill gaps in the Ukrainian budget." One of these unpopular measures will be the rollback of mechanisms functioning as gas subsidies, forcing the prices of gas for municipal companies to increase by 50% and double for private companies.

Kovitidi also said that "Electricity tariffs will be raised by 40%, housing utility tariffs will be raised, too, gasoline excises will go up 60% and transportation tariffs 50%, while state support for childbirth will be cancelled, the free distribution of textbooks will be annulled at schools and the VAT relief will be scrapped in rural regions."

A VAT (Value-Added Tax) is also being planned for medications, Kovitidi said.

She also claims that there is a plan to sell off Ukraine's very rich and fertile farmland to international corporations and foreign countries. Kovitidi states, "The planned annulment of the moratorium on the sale of farmland looks appalling. The selloff of Ukraine's black soil zone, including to foreign countries, may have disastrous economic and social consequences."

Indeed, Ukraine's "black earth" region has been sought after by dictators, oligarchs, imperialists, and financiers for many years due to its rich and productive food production capabilities.

Whether or not the details of the IMF agreement are exactly the same as the specific concerns Kovitidi has expressed in her statement, the fact is that the IMF is nothing more than an agent of the world banking elite and predatory financier oligarchs that seek to parasitize on a nation of people already on their knees.

When it comes to true success stories, the IMF has a track record of zero.

In the end, and by this time in history, any leader who gets in bed with the International Monetary Fund should be recognized as a traitor or a fool.

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/imf-plans-massive-austerity-for-ukraine.html


22 Mar 14 - 10:07 PM (#3611986)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: robomatic

SW you are so slob-sided (partisan) you are apparently unwilling to even consider the more balanced perspectives on offer. And you take the extra step of slamming NPR which is a fair-minded jewel of the radio waves.

Apparently you are unable to recognize facts versus truthiness when you already have a 'dog in the fight'.

I think that Europe's behavior helped trigger Putin's taking advantage of a situation. He and his forces have been successful at bullying the Ukrainians, but this is far from settled.

I like Obama taking the long view despite his being trashed by short-fused blinkered hotheads.

"What's Russian for 'Anschluss'"


23 Mar 14 - 08:08 AM (#3612075)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST,gillymor

Let's ease up on SW. He's now listening to NPR and addressing our president with a respectful Mr. I'd like to think he's wriggling up out of the primordial soup and will one day stand erect as a fully formed liberal.


23 Mar 14 - 10:21 PM (#3612217)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

"Obama is a tool of the military industrial complex and advocate for the corporate state . . . ."

Name the last president who wasn't.


23 Mar 14 - 10:25 PM (#3612218)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

Well, I never voted for George W. Bush, yet I voted for Obama. Once.

Bush is the Butcher of 9/11. He was the puppet in chief who allowed Cheney and others to carry out that terrorist attack. And Obama covers for him. Both deserve fair trials and executions.

I'm not partisan. We only have one major political party in America, and it's run by bankers who have been waging war on Russia forever. I'm certainly not in favor of the Money party. I'm an FDR type of person.

Did any of you know that the Rockefellers and Rotschilds financed Lenin and the Bolsheviks? The Anglo-American banking empire took over Czarist Russia and ran it for nearly a hundred years, yet I bet most of you still think it was Commie vs Capitalist that whole time. Capital controlled the whole show.

I just get tired of big money running everything while they give us freaks like Bush and Obama to fight over. But I have to admit Obama's the freakiest of the lot that I've seen in that office. He makes me think of Caligula, who was raised in the east. Obama was raised by a transvestite nanny in Indonesia. He debases America (same as Caligula debased Rome), and both showed a penchant for torture. Bush is just a sadistic moron but Obama's a stone cold freak.


23 Mar 14 - 10:32 PM (#3612220)
Subject: BS: Burning my last bridge with Obam
From: Songwronger

http://xrepublic.tv/node/7940
Excellent video, if the fascists on this website will let you watch it.


23 Mar 14 - 10:45 PM (#3612224)
Subject: RE: BS: Burning my last bridge with Obam
From: GUEST

I was waiting for her to burn her bra.

Pffft.


23 Mar 14 - 11:06 PM (#3612229)
Subject: RE: BS: Burning my last bridge with Obam
From: Ebbie

Like most lists like hers, it is not only shallow but misleading. The woman got the list from some news channel? Hmmmm. Wonder which one that could have been?

What strikes me is this young woman's extraordinary savviness; she votes for President Obama and then tunes out? For how long? Doesn't even know what is going on in the world? Doesn't that make her CINO- Citizen In Name Only?


23 Mar 14 - 11:40 PM (#3612233)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

"Both deserve fair trials and executions."

Now that is (unintentionally?) hilarious!


23 Mar 14 - 11:47 PM (#3612234)
Subject: RE: BS: Burning my last bridge with Obam
From: Songwronger

In what way is her list misleading? She primarily critiques Obama's willingness to follow Bush policies and serve the corporations. And Obama HAS murdered Americans with drones, so how is her list misleading?


24 Mar 14 - 09:35 AM (#3612341)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

I'd be more inclined to lend her views credence had she burned her bra.


25 Mar 14 - 11:22 PM (#3612832)
Subject: BS: Obama Threatens to Nuke Manhattan
From: Songwronger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuwziWkaPYM

4:50 in, he starts talking about the number one threat to the US and says he's concerned about a nuke going off in Manhattan.

He runs a secret government, then he spouts crap like this.

If a nuke goes off in Manhattan, Obama had foreknowledge of it. Some will even said he boasted of the crime beforehand.


26 Mar 14 - 12:20 AM (#3612835)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Stilly River Sage

Songwronger, have I told you lately how hateful and pointless I think your posts are?

Just in case you didn't know, I'll remind you here again.

Cordially,

SRS


26 Mar 14 - 12:31 AM (#3612838)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

You're the one who injects her children with poisonous vaccines, Maggie. You have a skewed concept of the hate/love thing.

At any rate, Obama said he's concerned about a nuke going off in Manhattan. So he either has foreknowledge (what does he know and when did he learn it?), or he's terrorizing American citizens.

Of course I hate Obama. What's not to hate? He's a torturing spymaster. He stole my vote when he promised a more transparent government. Not only does he wage war against openness, but he kills American citizens and doesn't explain why. And now he may be planning to kill millions. Again, what's not to hate?


26 Mar 14 - 12:34 AM (#3612839)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Amos

Your thinkerator is on the blink again SW. There's this thing called "context"==it means the framework within which something happens. By taking things out of their context you can get all slap-happy about twisting, altering, and distorting what something means. It is an art, but you seem to have acquired it.

A


26 Mar 14 - 01:00 AM (#3612843)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

Don't lecture me on Obama and context. Point to an area where he hasn't betrayed his base. Hundreds of little betrayals, each somehow justified by his True Believers, who swear that he's just being taken "out of context." Hell, he just brought British Petroleum back under his wing, BP the mass-murdering polluter of the Gulf of Mexico. But I'm taking that out of context. I just don't understand. Obama's a liberal man, so he wouldn't do business with an evil corporation like BP. I'm just taking that action out of context.

And now he says he's concerned about the number one threat to the US and a nuke in Manhattan.

But why waste time on this? I made my point, that Obama is on video talking about a nuke in Manhattan. He's either going to set one off or he's just terrorizing, the way he likes to do.

You should know better, Amos. Aren't you a member of the self-styled "Greatest Generation"? Jeez.


26 Mar 14 - 12:24 PM (#3612942)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Songwronget is not a member of our society; his drivel should be ignored, and he should be under observation by our guardians.


26 Mar 14 - 12:34 PM (#3612945)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: olddude

us cockroaches do just fine in radioactive ash ...

heck give me Rap and let me pick 7 seals and we will fix the mess fer ya


26 Mar 14 - 12:38 PM (#3612946)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

Obama did not say he was concerned about a nuke going off in NYC. He simply said he thinks a nuclear threat to Manhattan is a greater concern than Russia is in terms of the US's security. There is a big difference between the two.


26 Mar 14 - 01:00 PM (#3612952)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Stilly River Sage

Willful misreadings are the specialty of Mudcat's most toxic member. Resistant to scientific breakthroughs, he would accuse parents of intentional harm for protecting children from deadly contagious diseases and cancer. Suggesting an intent to nuke a large city, characterizing public broadcasting as FOX-like, or sharing a hysterical co-ed who blames Obama for not making hers a perfect world - those are all part and parcel of his "discourse." One can only presume that he sticks around because he enjoyed predatory posting to suit his troll tendencies.


26 Mar 14 - 10:53 PM (#3613066)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

Actually you GIVE your kids contagious diseases and cancer with vaccinations. I could pull up endless studies showing that. If you let an "authority" inject a foreign substance into your child, then you either hate the child, you're stupid, or you're insane.

And Obama said what he said. If Manhattan is nuked, then he knew it was coming.


26 Mar 14 - 11:00 PM (#3613067)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

"If you let an "authority" inject a foreign substance into your child, then you either hate the child, you're stupid, or you're insane."

My god what an antiscience neanderthal asshole. Oops. Sorry. Did not mean to insult neanderthals.


26 Mar 14 - 11:26 PM (#3613069)
Subject: RE: BS: Sex Offender to live in White House?
From: beeliner

According to your definition, the last president who WASN'T a "sex offender" was probably Truman.


27 Mar 14 - 01:04 AM (#3613077)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Amos

SW you're talking pure horse manure. He said he'd be MORE concerned about a nuke in NYC than he was about Russia. This was a rhetorical device, an invidious comparison, and you seemed to have missed getting the gene that enables the brain to interpret rhetoric. Best hold your tongue and leave room for doubt.


27 Mar 14 - 01:28 AM (#3613083)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

All you people can do is name call. You defend the indefensible and call names.

It seems that every thread I start now will be routed here. This is a thread about Obama and his fascist cohorts pushing us to the brink of nuclear war, yet the thing about Bill Clinton is here.

This suppression discussion as mark of fascism. The moderators here have turned Mudcat into a fascist website. No dissent is tolerated. This has become the whitest website I know, and I visit a bunch.

And the science of 200 years ago was leeches, phrenology a hundred years ago, so yes, you are crazy if you let strangers inject your children with bits of viral DNA.


27 Mar 14 - 02:16 AM (#3613088)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Ebbie

"This has become the whitest website I know, and I visit a bunch."

I think it was Oscar Wild who said of someone something like: "He has been invited to the best homes of the city. Once."

SW visits a bunch.


28 Mar 14 - 10:54 PM (#3613548)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Songwronger

What I mean is, when I read some of the drivel here, I think, "That's awfully white of him/her." Liberals are inveterate racists. You've been racists for so long that you've lost sight of the fact.

At any rate, Obama talked about Manhattan being nuked. And then there's this today:

The United States is on alert and has deployed military assets to defend the Atlantic coastline from New York to Charleston from attack by a cruise type missile or low flying aircraft.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/28/356298/us-on-nuclear-false-flag-high-alert/

What strikes me odd about this story is that Obama just dropped a hint about New York City, and a while back some nukes went missing in Texas, heading for South Carolina. The day after they disappeared Senator Lindsay Graham said Charleston S.C. was going to be nuked. Shortly thereafter there was an "earthquake" 200 miles off the S.C. coast, and Obama fired the 3 military men in charge of supervising America's nuclear stockpile. The servile media reported that the generals and the admiral had been dismissed for this and that, but some sources said they prevented Obama from nuking America. The earthquake in the Atlantic was a detonation from the bomb that an admiral heaved over the side.

New York to Charleston under watch. Obomber on the prowl.


28 Mar 14 - 10:58 PM (#3613549)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: bobad

And that, folks, is from Press TV - Iran's television network, broadcasting in English round-the-clock. Based in Tehran.


28 Mar 14 - 11:08 PM (#3613551)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Stilly River Sage

What I mean is, when I read some of the drivel here, I think, "That's awfully white of him/her."

How 1973.


29 Mar 14 - 06:19 PM (#3613597)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

England fought the Crimean War to prevent Russia from gaining access to ports on the Black Sea.

History. You can't make it up, can you, especially if you don't know the difference between Bulgaria and The Ukraine, and between the 18th and the 19th centuries? Turkey, where the Russians were poking at then? or you?


29 Mar 14 - 08:38 PM (#3613607)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: pdq

In 1913, Edith Wharton published something with the phrase "white of you".

Eventually, that eveolved into the catch phrase "that's mighty white of you".

The statement has Christian conotations with purity of sole being white.

Born Edith Newbold Jones, Miss Wharton is also credited with the phrase "keeping up with the Joneses".


30 Mar 14 - 09:49 AM (#3613686)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

The statement has Christian conotations with purity of sole being white.

Bullshit, Peedee - nice attempt at whitewash, but that ain't how the phrase was and is used.

And, it much pre-dates 1913. Look it up.


30 Mar 14 - 08:05 PM (#3613821)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

white- marked by upright fairness. One of meanings provided in Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.


30 Mar 14 - 08:12 PM (#3613822)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Nice try, Q - now go back to your dictionary and look up "whitewash".

And then "sophistry".


31 Mar 14 - 08:34 AM (#3613939)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: GUEST

Everyone goes on about songwronger being mad but why don't they apply the same standards to Obama and call him mad for what he says about a nuclear attack on Manhattan ? The US has hundreds of nuclear weapons as a deterrent against a Russian nuclear attack, so Obama doesn't feel the need to be too concerned about Russia's nuclear weapons . And yet he says that a nuclear attack on Manhattan is a concern for him . He doesn't say why anyone would be mad enough to do such a thing as nuke Manhattan or speculate on motives, who the crazies might be etc. Sounds to me like paranoia on the President's part .


31 Mar 14 - 10:53 AM (#3613973)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Ebbie

"They don't pose the number one national security threat to the United States," Obama said. "I continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security of the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan."

That is actually what the President said. I could wish he had phrased it differently but the remark was kind of off the cuff, I think. I take it as the concern we all have about the possibility of a suitcase-bomb.


31 Mar 14 - 11:14 AM (#3613983)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: pdq

As a person, Greg F. is very black and white.

Heart and liver respectively.


31 Mar 14 - 11:46 AM (#3613993)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Ya know, PeeDee, its clowns like you & Q that have driven every person of color off this forum.

I suppose you're both proud of it.


31 Mar 14 - 12:37 PM (#3614012)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: beardedbruce

Says the person that has stated he reads the term "Black, and a Democrat" as "Dumb Ni**er."


You really need to just shut up, GregF.


31 Mar 14 - 12:41 PM (#3614014)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: pdq

Yep, Greg F. is Mudcat's turd in the punchbowl.


31 Mar 14 - 12:49 PM (#3614020)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Ya know, PeeDee, its clowns like you & Q & BullshitBruce that have driven every person of color off this forum.

And you've just proven, once again, that you all are indeed ARE proud of it.


31 Mar 14 - 01:04 PM (#3614025)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: pdq

Mudcat's lowest life form, the turd known as 'The F Word', is trying desperately to divert attention from he/she/its dreadful behavior on Mudcat by calling others intolerant.

Mudcat's low rate of posting is caused by the poisoned atmosphere The F Word and the rest of Mudcat's Dirty Dozen have created.

Where are the moderators?

Does anybody take the rules of behavior seriously?


31 Mar 14 - 01:08 PM (#3614027)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Gf, our resident juvenile troll.

But, to lighten up-

Be a clown, be a clown,
All the world loves a clown.
Act the fool, play the calf,
And you'll always have the last laugh.


31 Mar 14 - 01:11 PM (#3614030)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: pdq

Now, now Q.

What do you think this is, Make Fun of the Handicapped Week?


31 Mar 14 - 01:13 PM (#3614031)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: beardedbruce

So, GregF, what part of my post is bullshit?

You are a lying scumbag who will lie even when your statements are on past threads.




From: Greg F. - PM
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:00 PM

....
Beardie is also the guy that, in the thread about cash only for
second-hand goods, wanted us to know that the sponsor of the bill
was a Dumb Ni--er.

His source?? SOMEONE ELSE'S POST THAT HE READS AS DUMB NI**ER.


Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F. - PM
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM

For Max and Beardie's benefit, from the archives:

Subject: RE: BS: Louisiana Makes It Illegal To Use Cash
From: pdq - PM
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 07:37 PM

Just for the record, the idiot behind this bill is a member of the Louisiana House of Representitives.

He is Black and a Democrat."


31 Mar 14 - 03:46 PM (#3614080)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Gf, our resident juvenile troll.

So Q - nothing of substance to offer only name-clling & your usual drivel?


31 Mar 14 - 03:48 PM (#3614081)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

You are a lying scumbag who will lie even when your statements are on past threads.

Up the dosage on your meds, Bruce - your OCD & paranoid delusions are manifesting again.


31 Mar 14 - 03:53 PM (#3614084)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: Greg F.

Ya know, PeeDee, its clowns like you & Q & BullshitBruce that have driven every person of color off this forum.

And you've just proven, YET AGAIN, that you all are indeed ARE proud of it, and have nothing of substance to refute it.

Call all the stupid names & make all the lame jokes you wish - it don't alter the facts.


31 Mar 14 - 04:02 PM (#3614086)
Subject: RE: BS: Thanx 4 the Russian Nuke War, Mr. Obama
From: beardedbruce

GregF,

You make statements and attack people, with NO evidence presented that you are even aware of reality. You have proven yourself to be a lying scumbag, and even your erstwhile supporters have realized what a waste of space you are.

YOU need to stop sexually attacking those guinea pigs, and try to pretend that you are actually a human being.