|
09 Apr 14 - 11:19 AM (#3616916) Subject: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Richard Bridge In my view: Cameron's obduracy in defending Maria Miller to the last demonstrates the fundamental corruption of UK conservative politicians. Miller should (a) repay the (about) £5000 her party wanted her to (b) repay the (about) £50,000 the independent investigator recommended (c) repay teh (about) £1,000,000 benefit she got from the house bought with the support of her fraud [like, say, a criminal under the Proceeds of Crime Act] (d) be prosecuted for criminal fraud and (e) resign and be permanently disqualified from parliament. The appointment of Sajik Javid in her stead demonstrates the end of Cameron's authority over the conservatives and the triumph of George Osborne and capitalist fundamentalists. Discuss. |
|
09 Apr 14 - 11:20 AM (#3616917) Subject: RE: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Richard Bridge Oh, sorry, that should be BS. |
|
09 Apr 14 - 12:09 PM (#3616941) Subject: RE: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Richard Bridge Soddit, getting nowhere blickifying that! http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/politics/robyn-vinter-camerons-fine-line-womens-minister-doesnt-support-equality-while-equalities-minister-doesnt-support-women/7878.article?utm_source=Sign-Up.to&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=17719-222135-09%2F04%2F2014+-+Afternoon+newsletter |
|
09 Apr 14 - 12:49 PM (#3616955) Subject: RE: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST,Woodsie My friend Rowan (Jail Fraudulent Banksters)puts it this way: "When an MP makes a false claim for expenses, which involves dishonesty, they commit a crime. For this they should be charged and appear in a criminal court and face trial by a jury.That is the only way that Common Law countries can determine what is accepted as a public determination of the meaning of the word 'dishonesty'. That is vital, because we punish the dishonesty of a particular action, not necessarily the action itself! When the actions of the dishonest powerful elites are not punished it sends the wrong message to the non-elites that anything is permissible, and then we revert to anarchy. I am happy to see a few MP's swinging from the lamp posts, although I would prefer to see them doing a bit of time in Ford! For these people, being convicted of a common law crime of dishonesty, places them among the great unwashed, and they can never return to public life. We can discuss Chris Huhne if you like on another occasion, but trust me, his crime is not viewed by society in the same way as a crime of dishonesty, sadly but it is true!" |
|
09 Apr 14 - 03:33 PM (#3617012) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Steve Shaw Sod off, sneaky cheating cynical thieving bloody Tory. Go and rot. |
|
09 Apr 14 - 04:40 PM (#3617027) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST Don't hold back, Steve. Say what you really mean! |
|
09 Apr 14 - 05:01 PM (#3617034) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: akenaton You can't say that about an "equalities minister" Steve, you'll be thrown out of the gang for sure! :0) |
|
09 Apr 14 - 05:11 PM (#3617037) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST,cujimmy Some mps have been put in jail though ie Jim Divine + others, why hasnt she even been charged. |
|
09 Apr 14 - 06:55 PM (#3617062) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Steve Shaw You're a twat, homophobe, aren't you. Try to not address me. I don't care for it. |
|
09 Apr 14 - 09:46 PM (#3617099) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Rob Naylor I think the only *illegal* act she committed was the failure to reduce her claim for mortgage costs when her interest rate went down. I don't think anything else she did was actually *illegal* as it was all within what the parliamentary expenses system allowed at the time, was it not? She certainly committed *immoral* acts and should rightly be held to account (and have resigned immediately over them) but at the time she did the "flipping" of her main residence in order to take advantage of maximising her mortgage claim she was allowed to do that under what were then the rules. And the rules for HM customs and Revenue "primary residence" rules for Capital Gains Tax were completely independent from those governing MP expenses. It was quite legal at the time to declare one residence as "primary" for CGT purposes and another "primary" for parliamentary expenses purposes. The fact that she used those rules as they stood at the time to make a huge personal financial gain *wasn't* illegal....but it was *definitely* immoral and against the spirit of how parliament *should* operate. So I agree she should have gone....and have gone a lot earlier. I think that, morally, she should also pay back the personal gains she made. But unless I've misunderstood the whole way the system operated back when she did these things, there wasn't any case for prosecuting her for criminal fraud, other than possibly the failure to declare interest rate changes. You're the lawyer Richard, and I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the law on that....it's just my understanding of it and I'm interested to know if I'm wrong. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 03:27 AM (#3617135) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST,Musket Some MPs have gone to prison and for quite a lot less. Denis MacShane being a recent example. Cameron's judgement is faulty here. Whilst I like the idea of a party leader who doesn't hit the panic button the first time newspapers try to rearrange his cabinet , in this case they were right. Moreover, the opportunity to remove her for good reason came prior to the witch hunt. His judgement is lacking. When a desperate single mother ticks an additional box which she shouldn't in order to feed her children, she is in court and social services put her children on an at risk register. When I sign my tax returns etc I am culpable for errors, mistakes or otherwise. I once fired a sales rep who claimed for more business miles than were on the clock of the car. I fail to see the difference. In fact he was lucky we didn't press charges. I expect to see legislation makers setting the standard for the rest of us. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 04:48 AM (#3617156) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: eddie1 Saw a letter in her local newspaper where a constituent pointed out that Basingstoke is 40 mins from London by train and queried whether a "second residence" was required anyway. Perhaps that's another part of the regulations needing tightening up? Eddie |
|
10 Apr 14 - 05:52 AM (#3617173) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST,banjoman How many people who have had their benefits reduced by the "Bedroom Tax" did it take to let Maria Miller claim over £98,000 to keep her parents living in luxury in Wimbledon. Within the rules or not, its immoral and she should stand down as an MP and let the people of Basingstoke elect an honest person to represent them. Her article in the Basingstoke Gazette simply shows her arrogance and in no way mitigates her behaviour. Her predecessor, Andrew Hunter, was no better as he lived rent free for many years in a house owned by the local Lord yet still claimed for expenses for a second home. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 08:51 AM (#3617210) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Rob Naylor Musket: Some MPs have gone to prison and for quite a lot less. Denis MacShane being a recent example. It's not the amount of money obtained immorally that dictates whether a prosecution should be brought or not, but whether a law was actually broken and what the likelihood of a conviction is. Dennis McShane was originally investigated for expenses irregularities, paid money back apologised etc, and the police flagged his case for "no further action". It then came to light that he'd actually knowingly created a bunch of fake receipts, which therefore re-opened the case as the situation now involved pre-meditated criminality. Miller may or may not have pre-meditated or intentionally "forgot" to adjust her mortgage interest claims, but it would be a lot harder to prove guilt there than in McShane's case where there was direct evidence of forgery. I hate the immoral use of expenses "rules" as much as the next person, and as I said in my original post, think she should have resignerd long ago....but on the other hand, I see a lot of "baying for blood" among people who seem to have a different understanding than I do of how the law works and how parliamentary expenses worked back in 2009 when this happened.As far as I can see, there's no way she could possibly be prosecuted over the home "flipping", the excess profits she made or the way she used the Capital Gains Tax rules. It was all within the rules at the time she did it, so although it was hugely immoral, none of that was actually criminal. Of course, my understanding may be faulty, as Richard made the original post here with a strong indication that he thought she should be prosecuted for criminal fraud....hence my question to him regarding *what* fraud she could be legally prosecuted for? |
|
10 Apr 14 - 09:56 AM (#3617226) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Stu Considering the complete lack of moral compass of the tories and their LibDem cohorts it's hardly surprising that they still don't get it. All the main parties and the UKIP tosspots don't deserve any votes. I really can't see how we're going to get out of this. This is all a natural result of unregulated capitalism. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 10:13 AM (#3617229) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Dave Hanson She showed her arrogance by taking a whole 32 seconds to apologise to Parliament and the nation. These people, tory, labour, lib dem etc. still don't believe they have done anything wrong, if you steal from the government you are stealing from the taxpayers, they should be charged in court and face the consequences like the rest of us. Incidently she will now get a whacking great payment as a retiring cabinet minister, they really can't lose can they ? Remember, this is the government that is cutting benefits to the worst off in society if they have a spare bedroom [ not a spare mansion like this twat ] Dave H |
|
10 Apr 14 - 10:21 AM (#3617231) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Richard Bridge http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9736153/MPs-expenses-Culture-Secretary-Maria-Millers-90000-claims-for-parents-home.html Above are some facts. Or at least reported facts. The McNulty case meant that housing one's parents in the house for which an expenses claim was made was specifically prohibited. Making a prohibited claim can only have been fraudulent. Miller declared a rented cottage in her constituency, 50 miles away, as her primary home. Convincing? I think not. She is between the devil and the deep blue sea. If that was her primary home, then the subsidised house was primarily her parents home. But isn't it also interesting how Osborne's protege (the sex discriminator) is now in the ascendant. Surely this hints that Cameron is on the slide and Osborne, who is even further right, is jockeying for party leadership. Curious that we now have a women's minister who thinks badly of women, and an equalities minister who thinks badly of gays. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 10:26 AM (#3617234) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: GUEST,Musket I don't wish my friendship with his family to cloud this, but whilst Mr MacShane's case did result in an outcome that was worse and for slightly different aggravating aspects, they both started with the same issue (MPs claiming money) and the amount in his case was far less. I am not making excuses for him. I just wish to make the point that some politicians have indeed gone to prison. Including the ex MP bordering where I live for that matter. A decision has been made not to refer her case and I respect it. I don't understand it. I just have to accept that people have reviewed and assessed the circumstances. The process that allows internal review rather than the judiciary route the rest of us take requires review though if the credibility of politics is to raise in peoples' opinion. |
|
10 Apr 14 - 11:33 AM (#3617259) Subject: RE: BS: Maria Miller: UK politics. From: Big Al Whittle I wouldn't trust the law. after all the talk of moats and duck houses the only tory that ended up in jail over parliamentary expenses. just happened to be black. then three labour mps. by your fruits ye shall be known. justice isn't blind -unless you're totally stupid. |