20 Nov 99 - 12:24 PM (#138764) Subject: Lyr Add: SONG OF THE WESTERN MEN (R S Hawker) From: wildlone A good sword and a trusty hand, A merry heart and true! King James's men shall understand What Cornishmen can do. And have they fixed the where and when And shall Trelawney die ? Then twenty thousand Cornish men Will know the reason why! Out spake the captain,brave and bold,- A merry wight was he; Though London tower were Michael's hold, We'll set Trelawney free. We'll cross the Tamar, land to land, The Severn is no stay; And side by side, and hand in hand, And who shall bid us nay? And when we come to London wall, A pleasent sight to view;- Come forth, come forth, ye cowards,all; Here are better men than you! Trelawney he's in keep in hold, Trelawney he may die, But twenty thousand Cornish bold Will know the reason why! There is a chorus that go'es like this And shall Trelawney live, Or shall Trelawney die, Heres twenty thousand Cornishmen Shall know the reason why. Robert Stephen Hawker{1803-1875} wrote this poem in 1825 although lines 6 to 8 have been proverbial in Cornwall since JamesII imprisoned the Severn Bishops, one of whom was Sir Johnathan Trelawney |
20 Nov 99 - 06:56 PM (#138926) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Susanne (skw) Sure, wildlone? :-) [1997:] Most people think that this song refers to Bishop Trelawney who was locked up in the Tower of London in 1688 by King James. However, Bishop Trelawney's grandfather also did time in the Tower courtesy of Charles I. Nothing but trouble them Trelawney's! Here's an example of a song still in use today. Should you go to a Cornish rugby match you might well hear a raucous rendering. (The Yetties, notes Folk Music of England) BTW, did your version come from a Yetties recording? It is almost word for word the one I have by them. Thanks for posting it! - Susanne |
20 Nov 99 - 07:29 PM (#138946) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: wildlone My version was taken from an old book I have: Ballads and Poems, Illustrating English history, Edited by Frank Sidgwick, Pub in 1913 by Cambridge University Press. If the information I posted was wrong I can only say that the book is wrong as well. I also have the Yetties words and their recording of this it allways goes down a treat when sung at the folk night in Sherborne even if Bonny insists on banging that bloody drum. |
20 Nov 99 - 08:13 PM (#138964) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Stewie Hi Wildlone, It's a fine song. Some 20-odd years ago, I used it in workshop (entertainment) called 'Rebels All' at the 14th National Folk Festival in Australia. I cannot remember my source for the song, but it wasn't the Yetties. The version I had used your first stanza as the main chorus. I had the following intro for it but, once again, I cannot recall where I obtained the information on which it is based. However, it concurs basically with what you have provided: 'Some rebels are born and others are the creation of the balladeers. Sir Jonathon Trelawny, Bishop of Winchester and third baronet of Berry Pomeroy Devonshire, was immortalised in song far beyond his deserts. Certainly, along with several other bishops, he did oppose the second Declaration of Indulgence of James II in 1688. When the king mentioned the word 'rebellion' Trelawny fell on his knees and repudiated the suggestion that he and his brethren should be guilty of such an offence. Nevertheless, the Cornishmen identified themselves with Trelawney in his struggle with the king and made him out to be something of a 'nationalist' hero. The refrain - 'And shall Trelawney die/Then 20 000 Cornish men will know the reason why' - was first raised some 60 years earlier when Cornishmen feared for the life of Trelawney's grandfather, the first baronet, at the hands of the House of Commons. The 'Song of the Western Men', suggested by the old refrain, was actually composed by Robert Stephen Hawker in 1825 but it long passed as an original song dating from 1688. Despite its isrepresentations, the song deserves to survive for its own intrinsic merit'. Cheers, Stewie.
|
21 Nov 99 - 12:28 AM (#139056) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Stewie I found my source for the song. It was a Derbyshire group, The Ripley Wayfarers, who released some great albums in the 1970s. It was on their album 'Five Bells' on the Traditional Sound Recordings label Tradition TSR013. It wasn't the source of my information, though, all the sleeve notes had was: 'Old Cornish ballad. Another rousing chorus song that we enjoy singing'. Susanne, your mention of the Yetties reminded me of a fine song that they used to sing, 'Dancers of Stanton Drew'. It does not seem to be in the DT, so I will post it as a 'LYR ADD'. Cheers, Stewie. |
21 Nov 99 - 06:43 AM (#139104) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: wildlone The Yetties,A fine Dorset based folk trio all live in the same town as me.They have a music night the first weds of the month at the west end hall, ALL WELCOME. Bonny Sartin has written some fine songs that deserve to go into the tradition. I checked out the Yetties lyrics against the ones I posted there is only a couple of words changed. I took the chorus from the Yetties singing as the original did not have one .cheers wl. |
21 Nov 99 - 07:09 PM (#139287) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Susanne (skw) Wildlone, I didn't mean to suggest you were wrong, just that - as usual - there is no unanimity about the info available. Thought I could indulge in a little gentle teasing - I'll have to be more careful in the future. Sorry! - Susanne |
22 Nov 99 - 11:20 AM (#139517) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Wotcha Wildlone: I go to Dorset every once in awhile; where in Dorset do the Yetties or other folk singers congregate? Anything near Blandford? Cheers, Brian |
17 Mar 02 - 11:13 AM (#670732) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Nigel Parsons Refresh: I was looking for this one, but despite the Lyr Add heading, it doesn't seem to be in the DT, hence the refresh |
18 Mar 02 - 07:20 AM (#671186) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Bob Bolton G'day Nigel, Ah ... you'll have to stir up the DT (lots of things don't seem to have been posted since 1999!). If it was only a matter of stirring the people on the thread (which I have only just looked at for the first time) ... I know I have an extensive photographic coverage of that Rebels All workshop Stewie mentions doing at the 14th Australian National Folk Festival - must be worth some blackmail/leverage! Regards, Bob Bolton |
23 Mar 02 - 07:46 AM (#674669) Subject: Lyr Add: TINNER BOYS (Robert Stephen Hawker) From: Hawker As I have the author's name as my Mudcat ID, I shall add my half pence...... Written by Parson Robert Stephen Hawker, vicar of Morwenstow, Cornwall 1825, set to music by Miss Louisa T Clare 1861. Accorning to Mike O'Connor, in his book St Petroc's Land, it was written by Hawker when living at Whitstone House, Bude Haven. It is believed that he based the final lines on an earlier song, written about 1807 called Tinner Boys...... Come all you Jolly Tinner Boys And listen unto me Ill tell ee of a story as Shall make ee for to see Concerning Boney Pearty The schemes which he had made To stop out tin and Copper mines And all our Pilchard trade Hurra for tin & Copper boys and fisheries likewise! Hura for Cornish maidens - Oh bless their pretty eyes Hurra for our old gentry and may they never fail Hurra hurra for Cornwall Hurra boys one and ale! He summoned forty thousand men To Poland they did go All for to rob and plunder there You very well do know But ten thousand were killed dead and laid All dead in blood and gore And thirty thousand rinned away And I can't tell where, I'm sure And should that Bony Pearty Have forty thousand still To make into an army for to Work his wicked will And try for to invade us I he doesn't quickly fly Why forty thousand Cornish boys Shall know the reason why. The tune for those who don't know it, is similar to The Grand old Duke of York. Hope this adds to the interest of the song for you....and remember, Folk music is a living tradition, as it gets aurally passed on it changes, there is no rightor wrong version - only a different one! Cheers, Lucy |
23 Oct 12 - 06:59 AM (#3424664) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Mr Happy I'm most surprised there's no better version on YT than this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSGna_VVK3c This choir do it well, but the sound quality's unfortunately very distracting |
23 Oct 12 - 12:13 PM (#3424821) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Song of the Western Men From: Ernest a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqNooUj0DU&feature=related">Another version (with chords) and another |