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11 Dec 14 - 10:52 AM (#3684692) Subject: Light blue touch paper and......... From: AlbertsLion Bellowhead are surely the best live folk act these shores have ever produced...Bristol Post. Discuss? |
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11 Dec 14 - 11:03 AM (#3684698) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere Nope. I presume you mean England - there are too many Scots and Irish bands who've far outdone anything they can do at this point to make the question anything more than a good belly-laugh in such company. The descendants of the curate's egg of Fairport Convention - Steeleye Span, the Albion Band, some of Martin's more recent activities - all knock them into a cocked hat. I've worked for some time with Pete and Andy, and Martin, and Maddy in a week's time (Heeya!) - and the old hands are still masters. |
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11 Dec 14 - 11:13 AM (#3684701) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST Tuneless cacophony, much prefer Spires and Boden as a duo! |
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11 Dec 14 - 11:24 AM (#3684707) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST Rahere, bellowhead owe nothing to the fine heritage you mention, just a money making project for poor Mr Boden! |
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11 Dec 14 - 11:33 AM (#3684710) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: AlbertsLion I'm sure 'poor Mr Boden' will contribute, in due course, to the 'destitute Fairport Fund' ? |
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11 Dec 14 - 12:54 PM (#3684734) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST Just like Glorystrokes. A bunch of excellent Ceilidh Musicians and dancers. Participants in excellent bands. But in Glorystrokes they went for noise and bluster. And keen ceilidhnauts were tripping over their toes and holding their ears. Not a dance band even though that is their billing. Style (alledgedly) over substance. Form over function. Fashion over usefulness. Was it ever thus - remember platform soled shoes? |
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11 Dec 14 - 12:56 PM (#3684735) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST Bellowhead er.. um.... the clue is in the name. |
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11 Dec 14 - 01:15 PM (#3684737) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Musket I didn't realise cultural arts was by definition a competition. I thought I'd somehow accidentally started browsing an X Factor popularity poll for a minute. Bellowhead are possibly the best Bellowhead, Maddy sings almost as good as Maddy used to sing, Eliza Carthy is who I listen to when I am in the mood to listen to Eliza Carthy and Richard Thompson when I want to feel inadequate as a guitarist. They are all the best at being themselves. What an odd idea? Mind you, local newspapers need the advertising revenue of the adverts for the concerts so of course Fred's Carpet Emporium is the worlds best in Bristol, whatever. |
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11 Dec 14 - 01:25 PM (#3684740) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,mild dick What do Bellowhead say when they are exhausted and just about to hit the hay? Hello Bed!!! |
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12 Dec 14 - 12:44 AM (#3684899) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Bert They must be good, I've never 'eard ov em. |
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12 Dec 14 - 04:56 AM (#3684937) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere To give bands their due, it's not always easy to come up with something new - although Andy does it with remarkable alacrity when something doesn't work. They have quite some boots to fill, and once they find for their own niche in the pantheon may become permanent installations. Part of BH's problem, I think, is that they're a bit too far across on the side of trained musicians - they play the dots and not the music. (and this from someone who salvaged one of the pieces they have in the current set). I've not seen them playing thoroughly pissed yet, though. |
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12 Dec 14 - 09:26 AM (#3685017) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Not everyone loves Bellowhead (I've enjoyed them live a few times), but GUEST 11:24 must be deluded if he/she thinks "poor Mr Boden" formed an 11-piece band as a "money-making project" |
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12 Dec 14 - 10:02 AM (#3685036) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,guest Jonny Sunshine, there was an interview a few years back with Jon Boden, where he was complaining about how hard it is to make a living out of folk music (probably a fair comment as I'm sure many will tell you) Bellowhead is an attempt to create a band with a mass commercial appeal, and as such, is a success, and perhaps whether you approve or not, you have to admire Jon Boden for that, it seems to me that with all his many and varied projects, he has a shrewd business head. And if you are in any doubt as to whether Bellowhead make money, try booking them. I know of two well established festivals that have tried to book them recently, and were quoted £16,000. 20 gigs a year, even allowing a bit for expenses, between the 11 of them, that's not a bad basic salary. perhaps not so 'deluded' after all! |
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12 Dec 14 - 11:41 AM (#3685072) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Morris-ey A stupid and trolling question which has no answer. |
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12 Dec 14 - 11:55 AM (#3685082) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST "Rahere, bellowhead owe nothing to the fine heritage you mention, just a money making project for poor Mr Boden! " The old hippies are at it again - anybody who can get paid has, by definition, sold out! |
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12 Dec 14 - 03:04 PM (#3685173) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere £16000 x 20 / 11 is barely breakeven, after costs. It's not going to make them rich. And as far as selling out is concerned, what they do when they're not doing festivals puts the lie to that one. |
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13 Dec 14 - 09:40 AM (#3685352) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST '£16000 x 20 / 11 is barely breakeven, after costs' Accommodation paid for by the festival, food probably part of the rider, not to many costs then! £1,000 each, £5,000 for expenses. I've played some of the same festivals as Bellowhead, and I'd love to have £1000 + per gig! That gives them all a 'basic' of £20,000 (more than the average wage round here!) from those 20 gigs, there there are CD sales, all the other gigs they do with other lineups, I suspect they make a reasonable living. |
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13 Dec 14 - 10:30 AM (#3685356) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST WHY does the OP strive to create conflict on this site. There's too much of that already? Goodbye. |
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13 Dec 14 - 10:47 AM (#3685358) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST The overheads of keeping a large lineup on the road is expensive. Let's see if Bellowhead can afford to stay together. I hear the Proclaimers cost £12,000 a gig to book and they can all get in one car with their equipment. |
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13 Dec 14 - 11:26 AM (#3685368) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: AlbertsLion Why does Guest (goodbye!) assume conflict is the aim of my post? If one is distressed by debate perhaps internet forums are best avoided. Auf Wiedersehen? |
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13 Dec 14 - 01:23 PM (#3685393) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Musket One issue with turning professional is that you do become wedded to your art. I left a band when a new agent insisted we all bit the bullet. At the time, I envied my mates and their new lifestyle. Now, 35 years later, three of them are still pro but their diaries are shocking. A combination of backing band duty for others and studio as session artistes means they both say they no longer enjoy their playing, have no time not inclination to be creative and reckon I got it right leaving, even though that wasn't the view then.. Bellowhead will have record sales, tour proceeds etc but the income per person, and that won't be even, won't exactly make Mr Boden a millionaire, but of course his high profile will earn him the envy and carping comments of frustrated idealists who think music has something to do with egalitarian existence. A bit like the millions MacColl made and his estate still makes out of championing socialism but in reverse. |
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13 Dec 14 - 04:36 PM (#3685427) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere I discounted the sale of CDs against the cost of their agent - they don't get that much broadcast time to make those royalties worth thinking about. |
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13 Dec 14 - 07:38 PM (#3685464) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST You can understand why Ian Anderson does not like Mudcat. People don't or perhaps can't read! No-one has said there is anything wrong with making money from music, no-one has accused Bellowhead of 'selling out' Someone above has however, pointed out that Boden is a shrewd operator. As pointed out earlier, what he has done is set out to create a band with mass appeal. Whether you like it or not is a matter of taste, and if as happens in the pop music world, you are happy to go with the hype and be told what you must like! And on the topic of CDs, on a short production run, the unit cost is about £2.00 and with the sort of run Bellowhead would produce is certainly lower than that, so if they are selling for £10-£12 there is a fair markup and profit (even allowing for studio costs) Wasn't Bellowhead's last CD the best ever selling folk CD in the UK? |
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14 Dec 14 - 06:09 AM (#3685544) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Mr Red (remarking in bad tatse) mmmm.... AND I am told there are people in this world that like Marmite. |
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14 Dec 14 - 10:17 AM (#3685595) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: AlbertsLion Bad Tatse - isn't that a minor ski resort in Bavaria? I love Marmite! |
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15 Dec 14 - 04:40 AM (#3685808) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Tattie Bogle Am I odd then? And the hundreds of others who go to Bellowhead concerts? ( and even like a thin smear of Marmite under poached eggs!?) For me, it's definitely a live experience thing: I would probably not listen to a CD as it can never convey the same atmosphere. Their first few gigs in Scotland were in comparatively small venues, but they have built a following here, and played the (very big) Glasgow Royal Concert Hall not so long ago. As for the OP's quote: it IS over-stated: "among the best" perhaps but not THE best ever. |
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15 Dec 14 - 05:19 AM (#3685818) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere One way of subcategorising is to talk about folk big-bands: there are not so many, which simplifies putting things in perspective. Capercaillie still has them hand-down, and Tri Yann (from a different national repertoire, true, but they still have a far better stage presence). As people, they're not much different from what gives here, but they go further in having fun with it. BH have it in them to go further, though, so it may change. |
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16 Dec 14 - 04:21 AM (#3686128) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Mr Red Well, speaking as a ceilidhnaut I wouldn't rate them for dancing. Spiers and Boden - now that is different. Bulverton Sidmouth - they proved S&P do very good ceilidhs. Personally I only do concerts when there isn't a ceilidh (or Glorystrokes are playing - back to Marmite again!). |
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16 Dec 14 - 05:58 AM (#3686159) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray) Folk big bands at Christmas? It can only mean one thing.... JINGLE BRASS! |
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16 Dec 14 - 07:55 AM (#3686179) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: GUEST,Rahere That was a Doctor Who Xmas Special, wasn't it? |
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16 Dec 14 - 09:01 AM (#3686193) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: Steve Gardham Whether you like them as a group or not (and I don't), like other big names in the past they are taking the music to new audiences and you have to look at this positively. As individuals they know their stuff and participate very wholeheartedly at grassroots level. I wouldn't ask any more of them. Are they damaging our music in any way? I don't think so. |
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16 Dec 14 - 10:19 AM (#3686215) Subject: RE: Light blue touch paper and......... From: AlbertsLion Now I do like BH, especially as a live band - such energy and fun. Cd's, I have a few, but then again, too few to mention are not quite to my taste, but then unbelievably some people profess that they don't like Marmite (I bet they eat it in private though). Steve Gardham nails it for me though in his summation! |