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Marina Russell of Upwey-New information

28 Apr 15 - 09:45 AM (#3704842)
Subject: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

I was 29 years old when Martin Carthy encouraged me to do some research into the life of Marina Russell I am 63 this year and finally completed the story and solved the mystery of her final resting place.
I've traced Marina alive and well living in Bincombe in 1911 There is no doubt it's her. There is a burial in Bincombe church of an 83 year old Mrs. Russell but her name has been put down as Marion and that was in 1915. There are no Marions any where in the area before this one entry. It's an obvious mistake and it's got to be Marina. No wonder we couldn't find her. She was christened Mary Anne Sartin, and if her children told the Doctor who wrote out the death cert. 'She was known as Marina but her real name was Mary Anne' it is not beyond the bounds of credibility that he heard it as Marion. She had moved to 241 Ridgeway so that explains her dissappearance from the Upwey cencus. She went back to Bincombe where she was happy with her husband and raised some of her children. It's so obvious now! It never occured to me that she might have moved from Upwey after the Hammond Brothers visited her. Their description of her led me to believe that she was frail and would not last long. In fact she was good for another 7 or 8 years, God bless her.
I finally stand a chance of standing in front of Marina's grave after several decades of wondering where she is resting, and just saying thank you for the songs, and the wonderful reward I received from my years in Dorset, dedicated to her memory. I am contacting the Russell family descendants to tell them the news today.

28 Apr 15 - 11:20 AM (#3704870)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield

Paul Sartin will be interested in this ...
Derek

28 Apr 15 - 11:32 AM (#3704877)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

On the list.

28 Apr 15 - 06:42 PM (#3704972)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: michaelr

So what did she do in her lifetime?

29 Apr 15 - 12:44 PM (#3705226)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Vic Smith

So what did she do in her lifetime?
A synopsis of the show about her life reads:-
Following in the footsteps of the great song collector, Cecil Sharp, in 1905 the HAMMOND BROTHERS, Henry & Robert, set off on their bikes to scour Dorset for songs. In three months they recorded 193 songs and discovered a wealth of excellent singers with amazing repertoires. Henry wrote the music while Robert noted the words.
During their travels they came upon Mrs Marina Russell of Upwey. Despite the fact she was well into her 70's by 1905, she sung them 84 songs at their first visit and another 18 in 1907. There were love songs, songs of mystery and magic, see songs, parting songs and many more. They were songs she had learnt throughout her life. And what a life!
She was born in Corscombe in 1833, daughter of stone mason, James Sartin. In her teens she was employed in the glove making trade until her marriage to Charles Russell. This was the time of the great agricultural depression, just after the Swing Riots and the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Certainly not the best time to be married to a farm labourer: But this she was. Having married Charles, under a background of extreme poverty, she struggled to bring up 11 children. She lived in Upwey between 1871 until 1908 and during this time suffered the loss of her husband and two children. Alone, tolerating great toil and hardship, she not only brought up her remaining children but also the illegitimate child of her daughter. Despite this great feat of endurance she continued to sing, and it was this passion that finally ensured her place in the annals of musical history and gave her the recognition she deserved.

Songs that have become standards in folk clubs from her singing include -
Ye Mariners All
The Bedmaking
Catch-Me-If-You-Can
The Crafty Maid's Policy

Farewell Dearest Nancy
John White
Madam, Madam I'm Come A-Courting
The Man Of Dover
Molly And William

29 Apr 15 - 03:50 PM (#3705268)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Steve Gardham

Nick,
The new edition of 'Wanton Seed' is due out next month. If the powers that be decree, we will start work ASAP on the 3rd volume 'The Constant Lovers'. When we started the new editions it was the intention to concentrate on the lives of the singers in this volume so I'll probably be getting back to you if this comes to pass. Well done!

29 Apr 15 - 05:47 PM (#3705298)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

Thanks Steve. I'll see you in Sheffield next month I hope.

26 Mar 23 - 07:54 PM (#4168549)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

I've revived this old thread to let you know that more information has come to light on WikiTree. All of Marina's children have been traced and some of their descendants have. This is the result of the Living Tradition article that I wrote being posted online.
We started this research 40 years ago the old-fashioned way, by hands-on research. As you might imagine I am quite pleased.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Sartin-374

26 Mar 23 - 11:38 PM (#4168567)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Sandra in Sydney

Thanks for reviving this thread, Nick, is she UK's greatest source of songs with 102 songs?

One of our major sources, Sally Sloane gave us around 150 songs & tunes, but I'm not qualified to go thru the list & sort them!

27 Mar 23 - 02:48 AM (#4168575)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Dick Miles

Well done Nick.
In answer to that question, Harry Cox also had a huge repertoire of around 150 songs.

27 Mar 23 - 02:51 AM (#4168577)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Dick Miles

Walter Pardon is said to have known at least 182 songs.

27 Mar 23 - 03:52 AM (#4168581)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Sandra in Sydney

thanks, Dick

27 Mar 23 - 04:41 AM (#4168584)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Rigby

Henry Burstow claimed to have known 420 songs!

27 Mar 23 - 05:01 AM (#4168585)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,RJM

The Size of collected songs in no way belittles the importance of her as a singer IMO

27 Mar 23 - 05:42 AM (#4168592)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

Here is the full story if you would like some more information. Courtesy of Orpington Folk Club.

https://www.orpingtonfolkclub.org.uk/Interviews_&_Articles/Articles/002.html

28 Mar 23 - 10:24 AM (#4168725)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,RJM

Very good, and great to see the source singers treated as people.

28 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM (#4168732)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

My big bugbear for decades! Agreed.

28 Mar 23 - 02:00 PM (#4168746)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Steve Gardham

Excellent research all round. Martin should know. Does he, Nick?

28 Mar 23 - 03:28 PM (#4168754)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Nick Dow

I emailed him a while ago but had no reply.

22 Feb 24 - 09:47 AM (#4197725)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: GUEST,Phil Edwards

Although the ballad itself is far from unique to her, Marina Russell's tune for The Demon Lover ("Well met, well met") is astonishing; she'd have earnt a place in the books if that was the only song she sang. (Just sung it, or rather wrestled with it - it's one of those tunes that you really know when you've sung!)

22 Feb 24 - 10:12 AM (#4197726)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Steve Gardham

Nice one, Phil. Are you going to put it on Youtube or other?

22 Feb 24 - 11:15 AM (#4197729)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Reinhard

Brian Peters' The Demon Lover sung to Marina Russell's tune is on YouTube. (Note that the poster Reynard the Fox is not me ;-)

23 Feb 24 - 09:04 AM (#4197775)
Subject: RE: Marina Russell of Upwey-New information
From: Steve Gardham

I've made a mental note, R, but that will no doubt have gone by tomorrow:-)