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14 May 15 - 09:16 PM (#3708959) Subject: Dave Hillery info? From: GUEST,matt milton One of the latest Topic reissues is 'Trans Penine', by Harry Boardman and Dave Hillery. I'm enjoying listening to it a lot. But while I'd heard of Harry Boardman before, I'd never heard of Dave Hillery. And, if I'm honest, it's the songs that Dave sings on this album that initially caught my ear, which I like the most. He's got a very appealing 'everyman' sort of voice, no mannerisms, very honest Can anyone tell me if he recorded any other albums, or any more about the bloke? Rooting around the internet is only telling me about the Trans Penine album. |
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15 May 15 - 01:57 AM (#3708971) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: The Sandman try contacting Brian Peters, I believe he may have been a resident at the unicorn folk club manchester, the club Harry ran. I am sure he was a friend of Harrys,although i do not rember him being there when i guested at Harrys club, although the title suggests he lived in west yorkshire |
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15 May 15 - 02:46 AM (#3708973) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Jim Carroll Dave was one of my early influences when I first became in folk song proper in the 60s. I used to travel from Liverpool to Manchester (by thumb up the East Lancashire Road), most Friday nights to attend the Wayfarers Club at The Pack Horse in Manchester, run by Terry Whelan and Harry Boardman, along with Dave, Tom Gilfellon (bolh of whom were students at Man. Uni) and a magical woman singer named Terry Griffiths - hooked from then on. Met him several times over the years and passed on some field recordings when he was doing a project on field singers. I think he was in the Leeds area, and had a place in Whitby and was associated with the Festival there. Good days Jim Carroll |
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15 May 15 - 03:48 AM (#3708981) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Richard Mellish > One of the latest Topic reissues is 'Trans Penine', by Harry Boardman and Dave Hillery.< I've just looked on the Topic website and I can't find it. The Artist A-Z index has only one item for Harry Boardman (Deep Lancashire) and none for Dave Hillery. |
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15 May 15 - 04:06 AM (#3708982) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Mike Yates I spoke to Dave some years ago when he was living in Durham. He was working on his PhD, to do with traditional song & singing, and I believe that, having obtained his doctorate, he became a University lecturer somewhere in the North-east. |
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15 May 15 - 07:21 AM (#3709024) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Like Jim Carroll, I was greatly influenced by the music I heard at Harry Boardman's folk club - by 1969-70, it had moved to Failsworth, but then moved back into Manchester city centre. Harry, Dave, Terry and the embryonic Canny Fettle. Last I heard, Dave was definitely in Durham, but not sure about the university lectureship ... in an case, he'd be retired by now. You can find his doctoral thesis on line. Derek |
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15 May 15 - 11:43 AM (#3709075) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,matt milton Richard - sorry, when I say reissues I just mean digital releases. Have a look on Spotify or iTunes or emusic. I think Topic's MP3 reissue programme is a long way ahead of any info it puts up on its website. (And I'd rather that it was that way round). Another Topic album I've recently been enjoying in digital format is the Bonny Green Tree by John Reilly. |
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15 May 15 - 03:14 PM (#3709118) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Dave did a lot of recording of source singers in the York and Whitby areas. I have contact details if you really want them. (PM me) |
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01 Jun 16 - 03:46 PM (#3793289) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST I knew Harry and Terry and Dave Hillary for the Wayfarer club 65-66. Dave knew a song called The Lyke wake dirge which I was very taken with. My daughter was 40 last year and had her"Do" at the Pack horse on Bridge street in the very same room that the wayfarer club would meet. A very different venue from the mid 60's. |
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03 Jan 20 - 07:01 PM (#4026222) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Just came here with the same question - listening to Trans Pennine as I type, and really enjoying Dave's pieces. Is he still around? Does he have any remaining involvement in music? |
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04 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM (#4026268) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Keith Price My favourite song from Trans Pennine was Dave Hillery's "Nellie O' Bob's O't Crowtrees" I haven't heard anyone other than him sing it. Hope he's still singing. |
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04 Jan 20 - 03:32 PM (#4026310) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: matt milton Ah, nice to see this thread revived. I sing 'Nellie O'Bobs' sometimes at singarounds. It's a beautiful song and Dave's singing of it is charming. I suppose Dave Hillery would be getting on a bit now. I'm pretty sure someone said he was an academic somewhere, though I guess he'd be retired now. |
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04 Jan 20 - 03:38 PM (#4026312) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham He did a degree in his retirement and his dissertation involved his collecting experiences, in North Yorkshire, but I don't think he would want to be referred to as an academic. He also included a comparison between the repertoires of one of the Norfolk singers and one of the North Yorkshire singers. It might have been Walter Pardon and Arthur Wood. I haven't heard from him for at least 5 years. |
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04 Jan 20 - 03:52 PM (#4026320) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Dave Eyre Spoke to him a few years ago when I was book selling. I remembered him and the others mentioned in Jim Carroll's post - I was there at the time. There were also nights at Terry Whelan's after the club when there was a massive take away from the local Indian restaurant on Moss Side. I seem to remember a child's pram was involved!! |
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04 Jan 20 - 04:26 PM (#4026329) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Keith Price Good to hear 'Nellie O Bobs' still sung Matt. I'd love to sing it but it just doesn't sound right with a scouse accent :) |
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04 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM (#4026331) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Happy New Year, Dave Where was he living when last you spoke? |
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04 Jan 20 - 04:57 PM (#4026333) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous I believe that this is the same person whose work comparing Walter Pardon with three other singers I have been praising repeatedly on the thread about Walter Pardon research. He had many interesting points, including comparisons between first and second wave song collectors, and what he saw as increased problems with 'mediation' in the more embedded approaches of second wave collectors. I hope this does not misrepresent his point of view. He had many other interesting points to make. This is the best thing I have read on Pardon, and |I think I have read more or less everything people on here can point me to. |
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04 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM (#4026350) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Where did you read his work, Sue? |
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04 Jan 20 - 06:19 PM (#4026351) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous I googled and found it online, it was the University of Newcastle. The title is something like 'Vernacular Song From a Yorkshire Hill Farm'. It compares four singers, one from the first revival and three from the second. I intend to post more about it in the Pardon thread if this does not get closed before I get a chance to do so. It looks closely at singing styles over four categories of song. It seems Hillery is musically literate as he discusses musical aspects in some detail as well as social contexts where these are known. If you google you should locate it quite easily with this information. If not come back and I'll do it and give the link. I downloaded it. |
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04 Jan 20 - 08:04 PM (#4026361) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Ross Campbell Steve - If you Google "dave hillery phd thesis", the first entry to come up is this thread, the second is the link for the pdf download of his thesis. Ross http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/3902/1/THESIS___FINAL.pdf |
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05 Jan 20 - 02:07 PM (#4026378) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Peregrina I just met David Hillary at the end of last year If I see him again I will tell him of this thread |
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05 Jan 20 - 02:07 PM (#4026379) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Peregrina I just met David Hillary at the end of last year If I see him again I will tell him of this thread |
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05 Jan 20 - 03:29 PM (#4026398) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Thanks, Mary! How did you come across him? Was it at the Black Swan? Thanks, Ross & Sue I'll check that out. |
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05 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM (#4026413) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST Hi Steve, at a house concert in York, with his daughter (I think I have an email) |
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05 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM (#4026414) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST (It was Windy Gyle and he'd been Anthony Robb's pipes teacher long ago) |
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05 Jan 20 - 04:39 PM (#4026415) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Vic Smith Nellie o' Bob's o't' Crowtrees - wonderful! |
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05 Jan 20 - 04:55 PM (#4026416) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous By the way, I prefer not to be called Sue. It isn't my name! It doesn't matter too much in the overall scheme of things though. |
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06 Jan 20 - 10:11 AM (#4026553) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Pseu I had an inkling it wasn't. My fault very likely, but you did once sign yourself as 'Sue' at the bottom of a message. I have no issue with posters using pseudonyms, but if I have lengthy conversations I do prefer to know who I'm corresponding with. You obviously have your reasons and I respect that. I have used pseudonyms occasionally in the past, but readers don't have to look very far to work out it's me. When I was compiling crosswords I was 'Gripper' and you may have come across 'Dungbeetle' on the Mustrad website'. It's just a bit of fun! |
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06 Jan 20 - 05:17 PM (#4026628) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham It's coming back to me now. Before Dave's thesis came online not long after he completed it I tried to obtain a copy from Newcastle. The cost was beyond my pocket but they sent me a microfilm version of it which not having a microfilm reader at the time I took to my local library where I was allowed free to look at the thesis, but the cost of printing off a full copy was again prohibitive. I only had the microfilm for a limited amount of time so eventually I had to send it back without copying it unfortunately. Now I have printed it off and it is phenomenal. I'll be back in a few weeks when I've read it and thoroughly digested it. Many thanks for the links, Ross. |
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06 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM (#4026641) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Steve No problem. Just me messing about as in 'Dungbeetle', so it serves me aright. I went through a phase of being Tzu. Glad you are enjoying this thesis as I have got a lot out of it, even reading a downloaded copy online. I would thank whoever game me the ref on the Pardon thread but they too were anonymous! |
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07 Jan 20 - 08:49 AM (#4026747) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Is yur name Smith? Is it Rumplestiltskin? Is it Campbell? 6 more guesses. I'll be back tomorrow. |
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07 Jan 20 - 08:54 AM (#4026750) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Nick What about Dr Dallas? |
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07 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM (#4026756) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous XXXX :) |
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07 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM (#4026808) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Guest Dave Eyre Hi Steve when I spoke to him he was in Durham as I remember. But it seems he has appeared so that is good. Who were the singers involved? |
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07 Jan 20 - 12:44 PM (#4026823) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham The last address I have for him is at Allergate in Durham City. Singers he compared were Jacky Beeforth who he recorded, Walter, Harry Cox and Frank Hinchliffe. Jacky had the next farm to John Greaves a good friend of ours featured on the Yorkshire Garland website. It would be useful to know where Dave's recordings are deposited and how accessible they are. |
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08 Jan 20 - 01:45 PM (#4027084) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Some people suspect me of being G Wallis. I'm nowhere near as well-informed, of course. |
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08 Jan 20 - 02:02 PM (#4027087) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: The Sandman g wallis? never heard of her |
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09 Jan 20 - 10:54 AM (#4027284) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Is yur name Grommett? Is it Quatrecroix? Is it Karl? Three more to go! |
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10 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM (#4027505) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Dave Hillery also makes quite a pronounced contribution to this Topic LP - would anyone recommend it? https://www.discogs.com/Various-Room-For-Company-Folk-Songs-Festive-and-Sociable/release/9923123 |
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10 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM (#4027513) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Not got the album but if I remember aright it was based on a small book of songs produced by Roy Palmer which I do have. All traditional English songs. |
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15 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM (#4028499) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,henryp From VERNACULAR SONG FROM A NORTH YORKSHIRE HILL FARM: CULTURE, CONTEXTS AND COMPARISONS Submitted to the University of Newcastle for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy 2005 DAVID HILLERY International Centre for Music Studies "The ritual of the hirings went on in many areas until the First World War and lingered on in some areas including the Lake District and Ireland until the Second. The arrangement was a very speculative and hazardous enterprise for both parties. Jack Beeforth encapsulated the problem of the need for mutual trust in the transaction thus: "A lad goes to t'hirings and meets a farmer who says, 'Ista for hiring?' 'Aye', says t'lad. 'What can you deea?' says t'farmer. 'Oh, ommost onnything on a farm', says t'lad. 'Well thoo looks a likely lad', says t'farmer. 'Wheer were you last?"Wi' him over theer', says t'lad. 'Can you get yourself a character?' says t'farmer 'and then I'll hire you'. So the lad goes over to t'feller he were wi', and asks him for a character. 'Nay, lad, you deeant want to go wi' him. He'll hunger yer and work yer and you'll have a right bad time'. So the lad goes back to t'farmer. 'Well, have you got a character?' says he. 'Why', says t'lad, 'I haven't got one for me, but he's just given me a right one for thee'." I've taken this extract and put it into verse; A mean farmer goes to the Martinmas Fair To see the farm workers who all gathered there. Lad, ista for hiring? Hasta got a strong arm? I can deea ommost onnything, says t’lad, On a farm. Well thoo looks a good lad. Wheer were you last year? I worked wi’ t’feller standing just over theer. Now if he will put in a good word for thee, Then I’ll hire thee this year and tha’ll come back with me. The lad goes over to him to ask for a good word. But his old master says, Nay, lad, haven’t yer heard? Yer deean’t want to go wi’ him to make yer new home. He’ll hunger yer and work yer reet down to the bone. So the lad he goes back to t’farmer again. Did he put in a good word? t'farmer says then. Why, says t’lad, I haven’t got one for me, But he’s told me to never go working for thee. |
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15 Jan 20 - 04:46 PM (#4028514) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Excellent stuff, Henry. Completely in the style of an early-nineteenth century broadside writer who would have used as much of the material in the story or newspaper article as he could to make his ballad. Anapestic tetrameter can be fit to all manner of excellent tunes. The obvious one is Villikins but you could use Derry Down. Love it! excellent economy and well crafted. |
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16 Jan 20 - 02:53 AM (#4028570) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,henryp Thank you, Steve. The words of the conversation simply fell into place! And this amended last verse shows the lad outwitting the farmer; So the lad he goes back to t’farmer again. Will he put in a good word? t’farmer says then. No, says t’lad, He won't give one for me, And without one I cannot come working for thee. |
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17 Jan 20 - 01:32 AM (#4028706) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Steve Gardam commented on another thread that he tended to skip the bits in Hillery's PhD which were musically technical. I fully understand how musical analysis can get too much to take in. I recently gave up on a chapter in a book for this very reason. But I have the advantage of some degree of musical literacy. Even so I and had to think twice about a couple of bits of Hillery's technical vocabulary. But for me one of the strengths and points of interest of the piece was the comparisons of singing styles based on close analysis of use of voice and of ornamentation, rhythm, pitch (or slight lack of in some cases) etc. Too often folk songs are treated in writing as if they were nothing but lyrics. I know that different lyrics got sung to various tunes and so on, and also that musical notation and vocabulary doesn't fully describe what we hear, and are designed for 'art music' anyway, but as a person more of a musician than singer (and not much of either) I find it frustrating that the music bit tends to get ignored, or reduced to analysis of tune families. Music has its own semiotic significance, to put it one way. If they weren't songs people would recite them not sing them. I hope Steve doesn't mind me continuing that discussion here, where it seems more appropriate. And that he understands that I mean no disrespect by doing so. |
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17 Jan 20 - 12:13 PM (#4028750) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham Pseu, I'm the thickest-skinned person on the planet! There is a very strong movement starting up led by Sheffield University and Julia Bishop with strong TSF connections which is concentrating on the tunes of folksongs. I've contributed a paper to their first volume. Although I don't read music I can still research the history of tunes. My paper is on the evolution and history of the ubiquitous tune 'Derry Down'. If you contact Joe I'm sure he'd willingly set up a permathread on tune studies and history. I have long said at our meetings that this aspect of our research is sadly underresearched mainly because most of us are firmly text-based. |
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17 Jan 20 - 12:26 PM (#4028752) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Pseudonymous @ Steve I sort of knew you wouldn't mind really! But thanks anyway. I read bits of Bishop in the Roud/Bishop book on English Folk Song. Sounds interesting. There is an excellent online course (MOOC) called 'The Fundamentals of Music Theory' which people might like to try. It's run by Edinburgh Uni (if they still do it). https://www.eca.ed.ac.uk/study/short-course/fundamentals-music-theory-mooc |
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17 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM (#4028777) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: Steve Gardham That's useful for others but if I spread my knowledge base too far, at my age, I fear it will weaken it. I'm already forgetting a lot of what I had in my head. I'll stick to what I know, and have the info on at my fingertips, thankyou. What with the boats and organising folk events and the books and articles my family already think I do too much. They're probably right. |
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17 Jan 20 - 06:01 PM (#4028801) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Regarding tunes, the current Folk Music Journal is devoted to tunes, and many of the papers were first given at the first weekend tunes conference organised by EFDSS/VWML in 2017. There was a further conference in Sheffield in 2019, and another conference on tunes organised by EFDSS/VWML is planned for this Autumn. Details on the VWML website. Derek |
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18 Jan 20 - 11:43 AM (#4028918) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK Had the good fortune to happen upon a copy of the previously discussed 'Room for Company: Folk Songs Festive and Sociable'; it and a handful of friends came back to live with me yesterday https://twitter.com/JohnMcArts/status/1218197501519572993?s=19 |
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20 Jan 20 - 09:01 AM (#4029193) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: matt milton @BlackAcornUK: glad to hear that Afflecks Palace still exists! I would have expected to have become luxury flats by now... Is the Night & Day cafe still going? |
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21 Jan 20 - 03:02 AM (#4029347) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK It is indeed, as are many other much-loved features of the Northern Quarter, including Piccadilly Records, Vinyl Exchange, the Pop Cafe, Matt & Phred's etc |
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07 Apr 21 - 09:48 PM (#4101297) Subject: RE: Dave Hillery From: GUEST,James Phillips Nellie o’ Bob's o’t’ Crowtrees Who is it at lives i' that cot on the lea, Joy o' my heart an' leet o' my ee? Who is that lass at's so dear unto me? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it goes trippin' ower dew-spangled grass, Singin' so sweetly? Shoo smiles as I pass, Bonniest, rosy-cheek'd, gay-hearted lass! Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it I see i' my dreams of a neet ? Who lovingly whispers words tender an' sweet, Till I wakken to find shoo's nowheer i' t' seet? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it at leads me so lively a donce, Yet to tawk serious ne'er gies me a chonce, An' niver replied when I begged on her once? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it at ivery chap's hankerin' to get, Yet tosses her heead an' flies off in a pet, As mich as to say, "You've not getten me yet"? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it could mak life a long summer's day, Whose smile would drive sorrow an' trouble away, An' mak t' hardest wark, if for her, seem like play? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it I'll have if I've iver a wife, An' love her, her only, to th' end o' my life, An' nurse her i' sickness, an' guard her from strife? Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. Who is it at's promised, to-neet if it's fine, To meet me at t' corner o' t' mistal(1) at nine? Why, it's her at I've langed for so long to mak mine- Nelly o' Bob's o' t' Crowtrees. |