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19 Dec 15 - 09:57 PM (#3759779) Subject: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Received courier delivery of a brand new medium price range Les Paul Copy today It's the Epiphone 61 model with genuine Gibson USA pickups and electric components. All woodwork & specs as near as spot on faithful official LP replica as possible to buy at a sensible price. So it was delivered in a dedicated fitted hardshell case, inside a cardboard guitar box, within an outer cardboard box that was sealed with a security tape ["Don't accept this delivery if Seal is Broken"] I was pissed off to say the least to find the headstock near snapped off.... Yet no damage to be seen on the hardshell case or either cardboard box...????????????? Its Magic !!!... how did they do that !!!??? What's next.. a rabbit or a bunch of flowers inside a sealed guitar case...!!!???? 😮 Perhaps someone should explain the concept of bubble wrap to Epiphone's factory managers...... |
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19 Dec 15 - 11:00 PM (#3759788) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,# I would suggest that the box was dropped from five or so feet and landed on the bottom flat surface, hence no damage to the packaging. I had the same thing happen to my D-28 in a different circumstane (an airline) and that was why. Call the supplier 'soon as' and explain the circumstance. I was in tears, but stay cool and see where that goes. Take pictures--clear ones--so the supplier can see the damage. I doubt that's the first time it's happened so it shouldn't be a surprise to them. |
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19 Dec 15 - 11:28 PM (#3759793) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Backwoodsman Yep, it's shock damage, common in circumstances where the package has been dropped. The correct way to pack a guitar for shipment is with the strings slackened off at least a couple of turns, and with the headstock immobilised by packing under, above and around it using something like bubble-wrap or scrunched-up newspaper. Talk to the sender. It's gut-wrenching to receive a guitar in such circumstances but, if they are an honest and reputable company, they will almost certainly make it right. |
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20 Dec 15 - 01:21 AM (#3759804) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Yeah... googling reveals more than a few instances of Epiphone Les Pauls delivered with broken necks and separated headstocks... Fortunately for me, out of the stupidly high number of guitars I've bought sight unseen / mail order this is only the 2nd to be delivered with a cracked neck. As annoyed as I was earlier before phoning the seller, they were quick to apologise and order a replacement for delivery monday. Just means another wasted day waiting for their courier who could arrive any time between early morning and 10 pm... Anyway, I just cheered myself up watching a brilliant movie "Birdman"....which sounded fantastic on headphones. So better get a few hours kip now. |
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20 Dec 15 - 01:45 AM (#3759805) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Backwoodsman I've bought three from the USA, all very expensive, all properly packed - no problems. Gibsons used to be notorious for being weak in the headstock-joint area. I had an ES335 many years ago that a pissed-up bingo-caller knocked off its stand at a club in Grimsby - headstock broke clean off. Had it re-necked at John Birch's workshop in Rubery. Sounds as though all will be OK for you - glad to hear that. |
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20 Dec 15 - 04:03 AM (#3759817) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,Musket Awful. I have been mulling over a fairly expensive fan fret guitar that I have played in the shop in London but can't decide whether to buy one or not. I came home without it thinking if I decide otherwise, I'll get it packed and sent. I am conjuring up an excuse to go to London on business before Xmas now as your experience isn't unique by a long shot. If you look on eBay, you'll see lots and lots of the cheap home brand Gear4Music guitars for sale for pennies, all with snapped necks. I was in their York showroom recently and asked why so many? The factory in China hasn't learned to pack correctly.. |
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20 Dec 15 - 06:58 AM (#3759849) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST It has to be said that it takes a special sort of idiot to buy a guitar by mail order. I find that seeing, hearing and playing it are pretty damn vital considerations when buying an instrument... |
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20 Dec 15 - 08:16 AM (#3759859) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Jack Campin Breakage of violins in transit has been researched thoroughly, and as a result high-end violin cases are usually made to grip the violin high up on the neck, at the centre of gravity. It's free to move a bit around that point. This avoids the sort of flexing that snaps the neck or detaches it from the body. Looks like the guitar cases causing this sort of breakage haven't taken account of the actual stresses caused by throwing them around. Simply making the case as solid and heavy as possible doesn't cut it - what happens inside the case is what matters. |
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20 Dec 15 - 09:52 AM (#3759872) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker yeah.. it's the same principle as the human brain sloshing around and smashing against the inside of the skull in sudden and repetative impact traumas... errrrmm.. like heavy metal head banging..... ...and as for "It has to be said that it takes a special sort of idiot to buy a guitar by mail order. I find that seeing, hearing and playing it are pretty damn vital considerations when buying an instrument..." ..it takes a special kind of pompous twat with airy fairy precious notions about the 'unique magical qualities' of individual guitars to talk such dogmatic bollox.... ever heard of factories, standardisation, cost & quality effective cnc machining guitar production.... We're not all rich hippy retired corporate executives or trustafarian bastards who can afford to commision zillion £££$$$ rare fairy dell tone wood guitars from 200 year old spiritual guru master luthiers...😜 |
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20 Dec 15 - 10:02 AM (#3759873) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker I'll just add... guitars are no more special than hammers, drills, saws, and pick axes or any other utilitarian tool Some might fit your hand better than others, some are less expendable and disposable than others.... they are not harry potter's magic wand or gandalf's staff... sorry if I upset any delusions... 😈 |
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20 Dec 15 - 12:00 PM (#3759899) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST It takes a special kind of pompous twat with airy fairy precious notions. Haha, nice insult! I'll accept twat, but I'm certainly not pompous, and I'm not generally described as being 'airy fairy'. guitars are no more special than hammers Erm, I think you might find that they actually are... Tell me, are there more guitar collectors as opposed to hammer aficionados? I suppose there may be some, somewhere. How many people would consider saving a hammer first if their house was burning down? My guitar is certainly of more worth to me than my hammer. QED etc. |
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20 Dec 15 - 12:11 PM (#3759902) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST So you play a friend's HD28. Then you decide to buy one yourself. Of course mail order is a viable option. Just a quick check shows prices differing over £350 for the same thing, here, Germany and USA. Ok. A second hand guitar may be a risk without playing it but a new one after you have played one? No brainer. The quality control of material and build help, as well as enhanced consumer rights through the distance selling legislation and warranty against defect. |
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20 Dec 15 - 12:14 PM (#3759903) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Just click this magic tool... 🔨 |
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20 Dec 15 - 01:18 PM (#3759914) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Jack Campin Somebody missed a really obvious theme song for that video. |
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21 Dec 15 - 10:13 AM (#3760069) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,# "yeah.. it's the same principle as the human brain sloshing around and smashing against the inside of the skull" First responders must always be aware that three impacts occur in vehicle collisions: 1) Vehicle hits wall/other vehicle 2) Head hits steering wheel/air bag/head rest 3) Brain hits skull Drive carefully this holiday season. And to all a goodnight. |
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21 Dec 15 - 11:24 AM (#3760085) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: kendall Stan Rogers once waited until all the bags had come around on the carousel.Finally, he crawled out through the portal and there was this asshole playing Stan's guitar! When Stan approached him, he said "Is this your guitar" I can't repeat what Stan said. |
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21 Dec 15 - 11:31 AM (#3760088) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,leeneia Thanks, # and Backwoodsman, for explaining how a guitar in an undamaged case could have a cracked neck. Now I know to support the neck of my guitar inside its case when travelling. Now to find out what a fan fret guitar is. |
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21 Dec 15 - 04:17 PM (#3760120) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge If the sale is subject to UK law then transit risks reside with the shipper. So lawyer up. And because wood is not a uniform extruded material, mass produced guitars all still sound different from each other. Buying unplayed is unpredictable unless you are particularly well up on the make (and I still managed to buy a really dud Hagstrom, once) and unless the price is more than 50% below retail (or second-hand retail as the case may be). I have 6 Hagstrom J-45s and all sound different. |
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21 Dec 15 - 04:55 PM (#3760126) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,# leeneia, thanks for mentioning fanned-fret guitars. I'd never heard of them before. http://www.tkinstruments.com/130eca640.jpg |
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21 Dec 15 - 08:14 PM (#3760141) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker The replacement arrived today.. On first inspection it seems fine, and half hour plugged into a Vox AC4 left me quite satisfied... So my take on all this is... I never pay anywhere near full retail, can wait patiently for years for prices to drop, and must be prepared to hit the credit card for on the spot buy now or miss it lightning sales... Eg 400 quid guitars for £150... 900 quid guitars for £350... those kind of approx bargains [of course previous advertised retail prices should be taken with a pinch of salt] ..and then accept the risk that what is delivered might most likely be ex shop demo or B stock.. but in reality frequently turn out to be brand new factory fresh sealed box. For many years £200 was my absolute price limit, But in the last decade I've gradually shifted up a level, but have still never paid more than around £350. I've bought more than enough heavily discounted Asian manufactured instruments to expect the fret finish to not be perfect. But at the prices I pay, as long as they are playable, I can work around it and life goes on happily enough ever after. I've never owned a 'real' USA Gibson or Fender - so can't compare, but the guitars I have sound and play good & authentic enough for gigging & recording. Actually, I do own just one real American made guitar - A Jerry Jones replica of a 1960s Danelectro Baby electric Sitar. I've got better made Japanese & Korean guitars. As for individual guitars possibly sounding slightly different in any one production batch.. Well.. I just accept what is delivered and live with it. This is the first guitar out of dozens, in over 20 years of buying mail order, from UK, Europe, & USA that was so severely damaged... So either I've been pretty lucky, or buying sight unseen aint the terrifying minefield so many guitar 'experts' propound it to be...???? 😜 Right now, I'm more cheesed off that I lost another day so close to xmas, stuck in the house waiting for the courier... |
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21 Dec 15 - 08:41 PM (#3760144) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker oh.. yeah.. just an added thought, I'm kind of setting a goal for owning a genuine USA Les Paul & Telecaster, and a Japanese Yamaha SG 1000 or 2000 to celebrate my 60th birthday in not too many years from now, so will have to use that as an incentive for sometime soonish culling the harem and offloading them on ebay to raise the £££$$$... It's a chore I've put off for ages, but even I've got to see sense eventually, and accept I need to curb my OCD guitar collecting.... 😬 |
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22 Dec 15 - 02:36 AM (#3760156) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Backwoodsman Buying mail order is considerably less of a lottery if you deal with a retailer you know to be reputable - my Martins were purchased from My Favorite Guitars in Naples, Florida, and all are stellar-sounding examples. The proprietor, Jon Garon, deals with customers himself, and is a very highly respected Martin retailer with a fantastic reputation. In all cases, I called him, spoke to him personally, discussed my requirements, and received exactly what I requested. It doesn't have to be a lottery, it just takes a bit of effort and building a relationship with the dealer. |
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22 Dec 15 - 03:37 AM (#3760160) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Joe Offer Boy, I'm glad you got a replacement without much hassle, punkfolkrocker. I bet your heart sank when you opened the first package and found the damage. -Joe- |
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22 Dec 15 - 04:18 AM (#3760167) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge I suspect that planks tend to roll off an assemblyline all sounding the same. I was talking about guitars, you know, with acoustic resonant chambers and soundholes. There the wood resonances make a big difference. Planks make the noises they do because of the electrickery. |
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22 Dec 15 - 07:36 AM (#3760209) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,plankfolkrocker Won't disagree with that Richard.. after all my time at mudcat I'm the last bloke to be accused of being an acoustic musician... 😜 Though must mention mostly hollow semi acoustics like 335 copies, etc.. and 'solid' bodies with strategically routed hidden resonant acoustic chambers, which are becoming more of a norm.. and of course the entirely cheap and utilitarian but wonderfully resonant Danelectro form of construction and non 'tonewood' materials... Then there's my handful of guitars formed from the short lived attempt at building with Vibracell plastic foam synthetic 'wood'... My test of a good electric guitar is how resonant and sustaining it feels played for a few minutes before first ever plugging it in... Joe - yeah.. this is a new experience for me... But I daresay easier to resolve than if I'd bought it 2nd hand off a private seller... Seriously I have bought probably upwards of over 100 guitars sight unseen mail order, new and 2nd hand, from all sorts of shops and just ordinary blokes.. and I've only previously had 2 which suffered minor neck or body damage in transit. Once which lead to a successful insurance claim. I really can't help muttering to myself, "oh well here we go again" whenever I often read comments in forums and blogs about the scaryfying risks of buying mail order being peddled yet again... In the UK at least we have reasonable consumer protection laws, folks should be more confident and trusting with distance sellers and dealers. Even our notoriously shite courier drivers and depots, probably aren't completely as clumsy and careless as we always moan about.. In an ideal world the 3 or 4 local guitar shops which have gone out of business in the last 15 years would have survived, and I'd still have places in town to try before buying. But their stock was never that varied, and their prices always a bit on the greedy side... [or to be fair.. reflecting the greed of buiness rents and rates on their shop premises..] I'd have to go to Bristol or Exeter to actually stand a chance of seeing a guitar that I've discovered and researched on the internet. With no real guarantee that even the big city shops would have them readily in stock... Can't even get any real junk shop bargain finds since Cash converters style 'pawn' shops have taken over the high streets... |
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22 Dec 15 - 01:26 PM (#3760329) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge I've had bargain sound equipment out of Cash Converters 'cos the staff are pig-ignorant. I've also seen a local debt-exchange type ripoff shop selling a lovely old pair of Wharfedale Airedales (the corner construction ones) as "300 to 500 watt" whereas the W15FRS woofer in them was rated at 50 watts. I even tried to get the local PC plod interested in that as attempted fraud, but no joy. |
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23 Dec 15 - 02:43 AM (#3760410) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST There are far fewer bargains out there nowadays because the pawn and cash shops can easily look up the street value. Back in the '80s I could never walk past a second hand shop without seeing if they had a D28 for a fiver, as just about everybody you knew said they knew somebody who... The nearest I got (and suspect this was as good as many) was a Gibson SG Junior for £30. One thing I appear to have learned from this thread is that Hagstrom must have terrible quality control. |
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23 Dec 15 - 04:50 AM (#3760425) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge Silly Billy. The newest of my Hagstrom J-45s is about 40 years old, the oldest (ex-Reg Meuross) a bit over 50. You wouldn't expect them to sound the same. The real Hagstrom went out of business late 70s/maybe early 80s. And their acoustics were actually made by Bjarton. The current things called Hagstrom are a franchise to some oriental guitar-makers. You don't seem to be very well informed. But go to a good guitar shop with a rackfull of (say) Gibson J-45s. There will be very material differences in sound. I've done it. Compare several Martin OM1s. There will be very material differences in sound. I've done it. There was a period in the 90s when Martins became overbuilt and leaden. Listen with care. |
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23 Dec 15 - 05:08 AM (#3760431) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST I recently bought a Yamaha A3R on line. They tend to get very good reviews and it's very difficult for me make the 25 mile journey I'd have had to make to try one. I'm not sure I'd have bought it had I played it. I didn't like the tone with the Yamaha stings on and while things have improved a touch, I've tried a few different sets of strings 80/20, 85/15 and phosphor bronze, pb has sounded the best for me but I'm still not that keen. I'm keeping it though and I'll be interested to see how things turn out. Maybe in 12 months time: a) People seem to reckon they start opening out after about 8 months playing. Maybe it will develop in to something I'm happier with? b) Maybe my ears will get more used to the tone and I'll grow to like it? c) Maybe I'll decide my initial dislike was right all along? I don't know. I've not been in this situation before. |
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23 Dec 15 - 11:04 AM (#3760495) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge I think it may well depend, guest, on what you like as well as what you do. These particular Yamahas are expensive and the reviews differ. I like the dreadnought bass boom, and I find that cutaways are often short on that department, unless one is going to pay ten times more for Lowden. If you play mostly unplugged, I think you may well find that this guitar will not suit you. It will however undoubtedly mellow with several months thrashing, although the question is "how much?" and if the Yamaha specs do not prohibit it you might care to try 13-56 or 13-58 strings like we all used to play. You might also try getting your guitar fettler to raise the bass side action to 2.7 mm in stead of the factory 2.3. I like Elixir Nanowebs both for sound and durability (but they don't come in 12-58 so mostly I play 12-56s in that brand). It is a personal choice. Two friends of mine have gone for the top of the range Seagull - both certainly are loud, very loud, one more so than the other, but I find them a bit brash. Maybe they will mellow. |
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23 Dec 15 - 11:11 AM (#3760499) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Bee-dubya-ell or... d) You'll adapt your playing style and/or choice of material to minimize the guitar's weak points and maximize its strong points, thus expanding your musical horizons. Example: I played with a flat pick exclusively for many years until I got a guitar that sounded like crap played that way. So, I had to learn fingerpicking to make it worthwhile to own the thing. Learning to finger pick guitar led to learning five-string banjo and Dobro. I would never have picked either up if I was still strictly a flat-pick player. |
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23 Dec 15 - 12:15 PM (#3760512) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker I've just been reading about high end priced Telecasters, the reissue authentic replicas of early 50s historic guitars. Paying the best part of £2000 for a bass ball bat neck which most young modern players would find extremely uncomfortable and difficult to play. But the ethos being some older 'discerning' players are very happy to pay a premium price for a guitar you literally have to fight against to wring out of it that 'desirable' vintage feel and tone.... Out of adversity comes satisfaction and beauty !!!????? 😕 |
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23 Dec 15 - 12:45 PM (#3760519) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST Thanks for the comments Richard Bridge and Bee-dubya-ee. Interesting. Richard, I am mostly unplugged but wanted something that would work both ways. One thing that might be in my favour if it is a bit lacking in volume and the guitar does wind up in some of its intended situations is that for better or probably worse as for some things I think I ought to lighten up (or maybe learn to do both) is that I am fairly heavy handed with a pick. I've been to a few quieter, mostly English and very easy standard sessions lately. One guy asked to try my mandolin as he though it much louder than his and another made a comment about my guitar being unusual in that melody lines (eg. speed the plough) could cut through and be heard. The mandolin was one of those cheap Romanian jobs (which aren't bad on volume) and the guitar was a cheap concert bodied cutaway. I think they were the cheapest example of each instrument in the room and neither was the loudest. I guess years of trying to make mandolin melody heard along with things like pipes and boxes in noisy environments influenced my own playing. |
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23 Dec 15 - 04:45 PM (#3760547) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge Guest, if you want "cut" I'd seriously suggest one of the about £1100 Seagulls. I hate both diddly and humpty so I want a guitar the resonance of which will enhance my mediocre and rasping (and sometimes nasal) voice. Picks are for hitting things with. I find I tend to dig (flatpick) at the bottom strings. My guitar fettler says it's a bit odd that I get more bass out of most guitars than most people. My mandolin is a Saga Kentucky flatiron. Do not buy from Saga, they welshed on the guarantee when the top cracked. But it is shatteringly bright and biting. |
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23 Dec 15 - 04:48 PM (#3760548) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge Oh, Plankfolkrocker (love it, what do you call a Ricky though?) My guitar fettler here in the Medway Delta is quite competent at putting headstocks back on so if you get offered a headless thing that is not a Steinberger, cheap, give me a shout. |
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23 Dec 15 - 05:11 PM (#3760556) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST Richard, If I ever get to a shop in the city, I'll try one of those Seagulls to find out what they are like. I'm not at all up on what is around but let me suggest: £700 to spend on a new (ie not used) guitar. Mostly folk ranging from to strumming "wild rover" to simple single note melody. Mostly flat picking but with bits of simple (eg. freight train) finger picking. Mostly unplugged but capable of working well plugged in. Preferring warmth and deepness to "brassiness" but perhaps as you suggest needing a bit of cut. Just a curiosity question. What would you have suggested I looked at as a sort of all rounder for that? |
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23 Dec 15 - 06:28 PM (#3760569) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST £700 to spend on a new guitar. Mostly folk ranging from to strumming "wild rover" to simple single note melody. Wow, if that's all play there is really, really no reason to spend £700. Maybe you should spend half of that, and the rest on getting some lessons so that your technique is not so limited? Just a thought... |
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23 Dec 15 - 06:28 PM (#3760570) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge £700 is not what it was! And you get a lot more bangs for your buck secondhand. If you want new in that range it'll have to be built in Korea or Indonesia or China. Some friends rave about the Blueridges but I think their sound is pedestrian in its roundness. I have a fiend who had a Breedlove that was nice, but I played a couple in shops and was not overwhelmed. I'd suggest trying a Faith - but not the mahogany ones. Might be worth trying a Martin DRS2 - should be available at under £800. I notice that Daions and Mugens seem to be going up on price (second hand) Might well be worth a look, but you will probably have to get your guitar fettler to install electrics. |
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23 Dec 15 - 07:08 PM (#3760580) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST Thanks Richard. I guess if a guitar shop with a good range had been more accessible to me, I would have looked at the used market. I've got the Yamaha now of course but will try to keep an eye out to see if I come across anyone playing the instruments you mention round here. |
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23 Dec 15 - 09:00 PM (#3760596) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker one of the only things I miss about moving out of London back to the west country 15 years ago was every weekend's ritual tube hopping circuit of all the guitar shops I had mapped out... |
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23 Dec 15 - 09:24 PM (#3760599) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Steve Shaw The only risk involved with online buying is that you may have to pay return postage if you decide you simply don't like the goods. If, like me, you live dozens of miles away from a good selection of shops, which will in any case cost a fortune in petrol to reach, and whose goods may be a lot more expensive than if bought elsewhere online, you often decide that it's a risk worth taking. Most of the big towns in my area are at least fifty miles away from Bude, and without exception they do not have an adequate choice of music shops. Shopping around could involve several day trips and hundreds of miles. Viva online! |
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23 Dec 15 - 09:50 PM (#3760601) Subject: RE: Tech: Brand new guitar cracked neck in transit From: Richard Bridge There is, Steve, force in that. I once ebought a Brook. Voice of an angel, but I wanted a Hell's Angel. Fortunately the nice ebayer let me off if I paid his relisting fees. |
