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09 Jan 16 - 06:17 AM (#3763978) Subject: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton For a long time between around 1960 and maybe 1980 the place where you could most often hear Folk Music in the UK was probably Folk Clubs. A few Festivals and some quite famous individuals and groups did concerts. Today festivals are many and varied and lots and lots of top quality cats fill medium and large sized venues and Concert Halls. Folks clubs are much, much less common but many are good and some excellent - still places where you can here acoustic music - mostly but not exclusively traditional, played in small to medium sized settings. Could the pro and semi pro folkies give a shout out for Folk Clubs when they play the larger venues? Something like: "We hope you have enjoyed tonight - why not visit your local Folk Club - just Google away - thousands are out there" Best wishes |
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09 Jan 16 - 10:37 AM (#3764020) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Dave Hanson Martin Carthy has always supported the folk club movement. Dave H |
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09 Jan 16 - 12:16 PM (#3764026) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton True enough - he probably played in all of them. I was at a concert in Salford around 8 years ago - Peggy Seeger and various Critics Group people. I think it was some anniversary of Ewan's. Much was made, and quite rightly too, of his life and his contribution to the second revival. One of the major features of that revival was Folk Clubs. It struck me at the time that the performers could simply have said - If you have enjoyed tonight - go to local Folk Clubs. Since that time it has been so much easier to find Clubs through the net - so their is no need to be specific. Can the famous give a shout out for Folk Clubs? |
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09 Jan 16 - 10:48 PM (#3764165) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST The Golden Bear on PCH is a happening spot with open Mic on Mondays and no age limit since there is only coffee and no alcohol. |
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09 Jan 16 - 10:48 PM (#3764166) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST The Golden Bear on PCH is a happening spot with open Mic on Mondays and no age limit since there is only coffee and no alcohol. |
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10 Jan 16 - 05:09 AM (#3764212) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton Here is a good example of an opportunity missed - in a sense by me. Last night we went to Chorlton Irish Club in Manchester to the North West Irish Pipers event. Workshops in the day and this concert at night: Irish Music at its best This would have been the ideal event at which to mention the Irish Session that happens at Lloyds pub every Monday - and has done at various pubs in Chorlton for 30 or 40 years. A number of other sessions could have been mentioned. This is in no way a criticism of the organisers of a brilliant event. Great workshops and amazing collections of pipers, fiddlers etc. etc. It was only in the middle of the excitement - and clearly too late that I thought about my "Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club" campaign. |
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10 Jan 16 - 06:28 AM (#3764236) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton Last Night's Fun |
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11 Jan 16 - 04:59 AM (#3764493) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton Would anyone like to comment from the slightly famous end of the spectrum? |
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11 Jan 16 - 05:13 AM (#3764498) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton You see, the thing is we often give a shout out to famous folkies playing in and around Manchester - so why not the other around? |
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11 Jan 16 - 05:46 AM (#3764503) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Ian The thing is Les, would you recommend to someone that you don't know (or even a someone that you do) that they should go to a 'folk club'? There's such a diversity of types and quality of musicianship, not to mention the chances of feeling that you're intruding in some private members club, that to give a blanket suggestion is quite likely to end in disappointment if taken up. Even making specific suggestions is difficult if you don't know the tastes of the person to whom you are giving advice. As an anonymous non-famous individual I would think thrice before suggesting to a friend that they went to a folk club. 'Famous folk' with reputations to uphold may not wish to give out blanket recommendations to strangers to do anything that they have little knowledge of (i.e. the folk clubs in a local area). |
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11 Jan 16 - 05:56 AM (#3764508) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge I `ad that Mark Radcliffe in my cab the other day. That DJ `oo presents "Fake on Two" for the BBC. `e`s famous in spades among the folkies. `e didn`t look best pleased on the day. I said, "What`s up Mark, your flavour of the month gone a.w.o.l. or something?" `e said, "No Jim, it`s that MudCat calling for the famous to give a shout for folk clubs. I did just that and got a right result!" I said, "Go on then?" `e said, "Well, we live alongside "The Frog and Bucket" and their folk club was going on alarming and very late so I shouted out "For gawd sake stop all that caterwauling at this time of night". I got a stone through my window for my pains!!" Whaddam I Like?? |
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11 Jan 16 - 09:13 AM (#3764545) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton Well Ian "would you recommend to someone that you don't know (or even a someone that you do) that they should go to a 'folk club'?" Yes in general - but seek local knowledge and yes in particular for clubs I know and enjoy. "As an anonymous non-famous individual I would think thrice before suggesting to a friend that they went to a folk club." You must know some bad ones "'Famous folk' with reputations to uphold may not wish to give out blanket recommendations to strangers to do anything that they have little knowledge of " - I guess most of the famous make their living from Folk Clubs at some stage in their lives. I presume that people who go to see the 'famous' know more or less what folk is and are capable of using the net to find clubs with good guests - after that they can decide if a Singers night is worth the bother. Thanks very much for your contribution Ian - it really has opened up a proper discussion. As I said above - we shout out for them. |
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11 Jan 16 - 01:24 PM (#3764630) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Ian I don't disagree with any of your comments Les. All I would say is that I do know of some rather introspective folk clubs which do little to attract new visitors. To a newcomer they could appear unwelcoming. I also know several which go to great lengths to make newcomers welcome. The internet is a cheap and easy way for folk clubs to present themselves to a wider audience and I know that Les uses it expertly to publicise the ventures he's involved in. In contrast there is a 'club' local to me whose internet presence amounts to one page which is about ten years out of date (I kid you not). There's another which books big names which is full of erroneous links to previous year's guests. Using it has an Alice in Wonderland feel - and they have the audacity to suggest that their site is the only one that can be trusted to be accurate. If clubs take the trouble to put themselves out there on the net in some way or other (and at least take the trouble to ensure that information is up-to-date and accurate) it does suggest that they care and would be welcoming and maybe the reverse is true. While I'm on a roll, not knowing where this is going, I'm going to suggest that FaceBook (which is used increasingly by clubs and folkies for promotion and communication) is a little inward looking in the sense that it excludes a whole raft of people who don't belong to FaceBook. It's a great aid to communication for those who are members of FaceBook sites and very easy to use but it does IMNSHO have some limitations. Yes, 'famous folkies' should give a shout to Folk Clubs but then it behoves the audience member who has been persuaded to do a bit of research or they may be disappointed. |
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11 Jan 16 - 03:00 PM (#3764670) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: TheSnail Got any positive suggestions, Ian? |
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12 Jan 16 - 04:15 AM (#3764827) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton How about yourself Snail - do you have any? How about we / I float this idea to some famous folkies via their facebook or website and see what happens? |
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12 Jan 16 - 04:23 AM (#3764828) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Ian I suppose I better make some response to TheSnail though I don't have any answers. All I would suggest is that people get out and support their local clubs and if they can help to make the unfriendly ones a bit more welcoming then give it a go. If you don't like a club and don't see any way you can influence it for the better move to another (vote with your feet). A bigger problem seems to be the lack of younger folk at these clubs. There are apparently plenty to be found at Open Mic sessions (which I know little about) so perhaps we need to change a little with the times and accept that some changes in format may be necessary even though many are very comfortable with what they have. If numbers at a folk club are low and static or are steadily declining then a little self assessment wouldn't go amiss. Though I may have appeared negative in my comments I that was not my intention. Indeed, I actively promote folk clubs in my local area via a website. It's as a result of doing that, that I can see how little effort some of them make to advertise themselves. By all means get the famous folkies to promote folk clubs but the clubs need to ensure that they are worthy of it. |
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12 Jan 16 - 10:48 AM (#3764914) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Peter "As an anonymous non-famous individual I would think thrice before suggesting to a friend that they went to a folk club." While I would recommend specific clubs I would never suggest to a non folkie that they just go to any folk club. Some are definitely unwelcoming to strangers. |
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12 Jan 16 - 10:49 AM (#3764917) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton OK I have asked 7 quite famous folkies what they think about a shout at bigger events for little folk clubs. I have no intention of identifying anyway but I will sum up what they have to say on here |
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12 Jan 16 - 11:56 AM (#3764937) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Jack Campin Which particular famous performers do you have in mind? I might go to hear Rhiannon Giddens in Glasgow in a couple of weeks. What folk club in the Central Belt of Scotland could she recommend the audience to go to where they could hear music anything like what she does? |
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12 Jan 16 - 12:53 PM (#3764950) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton I am not suggesting for a moment that individual clubs be named - I guess that's up to who ever is on stage. Can I quote myself from the first post here, why yes of course you can Les, you started the bl**dy thread. "Could the pro and semi pro folkies give a shout out for Folk Clubs when they play the larger venues? Something like: "We hope you have enjoyed tonight - why not visit your local Folk Club - just Google away - thousands are out there" That way nobody has to offer any public judgements. |
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12 Jan 16 - 02:00 PM (#3764990) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Harmonium Hero I think the main problem would be that many of the famous or fairly famous nowadays don't play - and in some cases have probably never played the folk clubs; they inhabit a world of concert halls, festivals, foreign tours and recording studios. Time was, you served your time in the clubs. Festivals were few and far between and hardly any of us had the chance to record our stuff. It was the same in the pop world; people like the Beatles had played local 'beat clubs' here and in Germany for years before getting a recording contract and becoming more widely known. The career path for young folk musicians now deems to be: Folk Degree Course - Young Folk Awards - instant career in fesstivals concerts and recording. They don't owe anything to the clubs. The great irony is that the whole 'Folk Industry' (see another current thread!) owes its entire existence to the clubs. Much the same in the pop world, where you owe your (probably brief) career to the likes of Simon Cowell deciding they can sell you for a few months. It'll be interesting to see what sort of response - if any- you get from the glitterati. (It would also be interesting to know who had responded, but I can understand your reluctance to name names). The Famous (and sarcastic) John Kelly. |
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12 Jan 16 - 02:05 PM (#3764994) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Harmonium Hero 'seems', not 'deems'. I review before I post, but there's always one... JK |
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12 Jan 16 - 02:12 PM (#3764996) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Jack Campin The problem is when (as with Giddens) you have a performer who does a kind of music that any reasonable person would categorize as "folk", but which you won't hear in any folk club. So what would be the point of directing the audience to one? Looking locally at what the Queen's Hall in Edinburgh has coming up, I can in fact see a few with relevant acts - you might well find The Shee, Mike Vass or Mairi Campbell on the bill at a folk club. But Kris Kristoffersen? - maybe at some village 70s-nostalgia singaround, but not at a city folk club, surely? And they also feature The Dublin Legends, who have a gig which promises to string together every Irish pub-folk cliché you never wanted to hear again - maybe in a vertical-drinking pub catering to American tourists, but I don't see Edinburgh FC hosting that sort of stuff even as a floor spot. |
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13 Jan 16 - 03:42 AM (#3765109) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: The Sandman I am doing a support for Martin Carthy at an arts centre in march, I will give it a mention. |
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13 Jan 16 - 06:44 AM (#3765121) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: TheSnail Les How about yourself Snail - do you have any? [positive suggestions] The basic premise of this thread seems to be a good one but , not being famous, I can't directly help. I don't know of any unfriendly clubs so I have nothing to offer there either. In the meantime, as someone who helps to run a club, I arrange about three quarters of the programme, keep the accounts, maintain the website, help put out the chairs and do my turn as MC or on the door. Another member of the committee does the remainder of the programme including our all-day workshop series, handles the Facebook publicity and creates and distributes the flyers and posters. Several of us also run free public tune and/or song sessions and a couple of out of the public eye practice sessions. I think most of the committee are in a carol choir that performs at various venues over the Christmas period including churches and historic buildings. It's hard work but we do it for the love of the music and the friends we make along the way, both performers and audience (often the same people). When I get told that clubs are introspective, unfriendly, unwelcoming and, worst of all, OLD, I get a bit hacked off. to give a blanket suggestion is quite likely to end in disappointment quite likely! Thanks a bunch Ian. |
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13 Jan 16 - 07:10 AM (#3765124) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton One response so far: Whenever I play at festivals - fairly rarely, sadly, I always mention folk clubs I cut my performing teeth at XXXXXXXXXX Club at the XXXXXXXXXXXX and have always been thankful for the experience. I will carry on doing this wherever I perform. Whitby Festival is full of folk club goers. That is what makes it such a friendly and welcoming festival. |
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13 Jan 16 - 08:32 AM (#3765147) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey The Spinners always encourage their audiences to give their (the audience) local folk clubs a try. They also did better than that by doing it themselves. They were doing a gig at the New Theatre in Hull which holds a several hundred audience on the same night that the Folk Union One had as their guest Joe Hutton with an audience of about 100. Just before Joe started his second set they all turned up, still in their stage gear, and stood at the back - all seats being taken. They also insisted on paying the full entry amount but unfortunately they had missed the raffle! They also once (sans Tony who was having a hip job done) did a fre gig at the club - but that's another story for my autobiography. |
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14 Jan 16 - 08:24 AM (#3765449) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton Well, 6 of my 7 more pr less full time folkies have yet to reply. |
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14 Jan 16 - 09:10 AM (#3765461) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST So your first example gives a shout for folk clubs when he is playing a folkie audience. I think the OP was talking about gigs totally outside the folk circuit at mainstream concert venues. I regularly do front of house work at a major venue and the audiences for folk concerts has little or no overlap with that at the clubs that I go to. |
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14 Jan 16 - 09:39 AM (#3765469) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: Les in Chorlton We go to The Irish Club in Chorlton, The Met in Bury, The Lowry, Salford and The Waterside Sale. I see other fokies I know and some go to folk clubs. In chats we have with people we don't know but happen to be sitting with - they generally don't know local folk clubs. That's why I think, certainly the best clubs would benefit from a shout out. Let me say again - not to name any clubs - Something like: "We hope you have enjoyed tonight - why not visit your local Folk Club - just Google away - thousands are out there" Best wishes |
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14 Jan 16 - 03:44 PM (#3765572) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: The Sandman but that's another story for my autobiography. are you going to include how you caught and bowled me at cricket. |
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15 Jan 16 - 04:20 AM (#3765670) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: MGM·Lion So you were a cricketer, Dick? Soccer & tennis man myself. Have started a BS thread about Catters' sporting histories, which seems an interesting topic. ≈M≈ |
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15 Jan 16 - 08:46 AM (#3765725) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey Now why would I want to do as you suggest Dick? I suppose it would prove we both have/had other talents. Keep the pot boiling old son - by the way have you considered retiring or are you going to be an old soldier? |
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15 Jan 16 - 02:07 PM (#3765789) Subject: RE: Can the famous give a shout to Folk Club From: The Sandman I have retired from cricket Malcolm, but I am still gigging, hope to bump into you sometime. |