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28 Mar 16 - 02:32 AM (#3781801) Subject: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,Empirical The three dances (songs) are as follows. Does anyone know their origin and roughly what the antique English is about? Now foot it as I do, Tom boy Tom ... The cramp is in my purse full sore ... Robin Hood, said Little John Come dance before the Queen a ... |
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28 Mar 16 - 08:39 AM (#3781843) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Stower The origin of songs in Ravenscroft's publications is often difficult to ascertain. This was well before the days of copyright and TR, like all those around him, freely borrowed, often without acknowledging his sources. TR's books include his arrangements of old material such as broadsides and very likely his own compositions without distinction. What I take to be his own compositions - since they have a kind of unity of style - are usually lyrically nonsense, so I wouldn't expect to gain any meaning from his words. |
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28 Mar 16 - 11:01 AM (#3781858) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Hello, Empirical. The CPDL (Choral Public Domain Library) has these words: Now foot is as I do Tom Boy Tom, Now foot is as I do Swithen a And Hick so must trick it all alone Till Robin come leaping in between a (now dance with your feet as I do, Tom boy THom now dance with your feet as I do, along with all of us and Hick must dance it all alone until Robin comes leaping in between us.) note: I remember from student days that 'swithin' means between, but I can't verify that online. If it doesn't mean that, then it means rapidly, and the a that follows doesn't mean anything. The cramp is in my purse full sore No money will bide therein a And if I had some salve therefore O lightly then would I sing a Hey hoe, the cramp a (My wallet has diarrhea really badly. No money will stay in it. And if I had some medicine for it, then I would sing lightly, "Hey ho diarrhea!") [There's elegance for you! - Leeneia] Robin Hood, said Little John, Come dance before the Queen a In a red petticoat and a green jacket, A white hose and a green-a (Should be self-explanatory. Hose are stockings.) Sing after fellows as you hear me, A toy that seldom is seen a, Three country dances in on to be, A pretty conceit as I ween a. (Fellows, sing what you hear me sing, a pretty thing seldom seen: three country dances in one. It's a pretty thought, I think. ) Note: "in on to be" is "in one to be." Does that cover it? |
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28 Mar 16 - 11:10 AM (#3781860) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Re: "Foot it as I do...." Here's a nifty video I found which shows how important the feet were in early dancing. The intro is a little wordy, but it does contain useful information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IccBbE022IY |
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29 Mar 16 - 11:02 AM (#3782053) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Empirical? Does anybody know where to find the music for these rounds? I've searched for a while. |
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30 Mar 16 - 05:01 AM (#3782189) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel Leeneia - I have the music - send me an email address Weasel |
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30 Mar 16 - 01:52 PM (#3782300) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Steve Gardham In TR's time RH and LJ would have been characters at the May revels as would the May Queen. |
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31 Mar 16 - 09:29 AM (#3782440) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Thank you, Weasel. I've signed in, and you can PM the music. I appreciate it. |
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04 Apr 16 - 11:30 AM (#3783336) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Weasel kindly sent me the music, and I've made a MIDI to hear what it's like. I'll send it in for posting. If Google Chrome doesn't play it, try Internet Explorer. Click to play (joeweb) |
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05 Apr 16 - 04:15 PM (#3783558) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Joe Offer MIDI posted and link added to leeneia's post. Thanks, leeneia. 'Tis a nice melody, it is. -Joe- |
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08 Apr 16 - 05:44 AM (#3784162) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel Hi, In the midi sound file the D flat in the 3rd bar (and later) is changed to a D natural. Is this how it came through to you? Possibly you've changed it to match what you've heard but it isn't a version I've ever heard or seen. Cheers, Weasel |
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08 Apr 16 - 06:02 AM (#3784164) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel This is the Ravenscroft as I know it: Ravenscroft Three Country Dances |
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08 Apr 16 - 12:05 PM (#3784227) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia Yes, there's a D flat eighth-note in your music, Weasel, but I probably decided to dispense with it. I suspect it's a mistake, though perhaps a mistake of long standing. Besides, I play with two harpers, and calling for a lever change for a single eighth note is not reasonable. The chord with a D-flat is an F-flat maj 7, not a typical sound for the Renaissance. |
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08 Apr 16 - 04:12 PM (#3784278) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel Sorry Leeneia, I disagree entirely. Cheers. |
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09 Apr 16 - 11:28 AM (#3784400) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: GUEST,leeneia That's okay. |
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09 Apr 16 - 01:45 PM (#3784420) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Jack Campin Where is the original score for what you're talking about? |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:11 AM (#3784527) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel It's mainly in F minor - F minor has a D flat. It alternates between F minor and F major, something found often in music of the period (for example "The Leaves be Green" see the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book. Cheers, Weasel |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:19 AM (#3784529) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel I'm not sure this is worth an argument - my concern was that I'd mis-typed it in the version I sent since what I sent is how I have seen it written and how it has been performed in every performance or recording I've ever heard (including The City Waites). It isn't copyright and anyone is at liberty to change what they like. Cheers, Weasel |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:30 AM (#3784532) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Jack Campin The CPDL version the only one I can find) has it in E minor. Surely somebody has a link to the version you're arguing about? |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:45 AM (#3784539) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel The actual key doesn't matter whether it be D minor or E minor or whatever - it can be transposed to any key but the intervals remain the same. I honestly can't remember where I saw it - it was years ago. We used to play it on recorders or on one memorable occasion in a pub, on recorder and lute but that's a different story - we should not have been there! Cheers, Weasel. |
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10 Apr 16 - 10:00 AM (#3784572) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Jack Campin So leeneia was flattening the d's in the final cadences in this? X:1 T:A round of three country dances in one C:Thomas Ravenscroft M:3/4 L:1/4 Q:3/4=60 V:1 V:2 V:3 transpose -12 V:4 bass transpose -24 middle=d K:Fmin %Transposed from EMIN [V:1] F|A>Bc|c>=d=e|f2 c|c2 F|A>Bc| G2 B| A G2| F2:| [V:2] F|c2 c|B2 B|c>BA|G2 F|c>dc| B2 d| c3 | F2:| [V:3] z|F>GA|G> A B|A>GF|E2 A|A2 A| B2 B| c3 | c2:| [V:4] f|f2 c|e> f g|f2 f|c2 f|f2 c| e2 B| f c2| f2:| % [V:1] F|A>AA|B2 B|c=d2|e2 d|c>Bd| c> Bc|=A B2|=A2F| [V:2] z|z3 |z3 |z3 |B3 |F2 A| G3 | F2 z| c3 | [V:3] z|c>dc|B> A G|A>GF|E>FG|A2 F|=E>=DE| F3 | F2z| [V:4] f|f2 c|e> f e|A B2|e2 B|f>Bf| c2 c|=d B2| f2f| % [V:1] A>AA|B2 B|c=d2|e2 d|c>Bd| c> Bc|=A B2|=A2|] [V:2] F2 A|G3 |F2 z|B3 |F2 A| G3 | F>Fd| c2|] [V:3] c>dc|B> A G|A>GF|E>FG|A2 F|=E>=DE| F3 | F2|] [V:4] f2 c|e> f e|A B2|e2 B|f>Bf| c2 c|=d B2| f2|] |
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10 Apr 16 - 04:22 PM (#3784636) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel Listen to the soundfile Leeneia posted - she was sharpening the Dbs. I haven't got the file to hand at the moment. Sorry, I don't understand all the stuff underneath. Cheers, Weasel |
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10 Apr 16 - 08:20 PM (#3784677) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Jack Campin The "stuff underneath" is just an ABC version of the CPDL's music, transposed up a semitone. To deal with the ABC I posted you go here: http://mandolintab.net/abcconverter.php paste the code (everything in monospace font) into the box and hit the "Submit" button. It will replace the ABC in the box with a score in staff notation: click on that and it will play it as a MIDI. leeneia's goes much slower than the tempo I set, and isn't what Ravenscroft wrote, but it sounds acceptable to me. I can't see whatever's at http://yateslawrence.wix.com/music-queries - that's a site hosted on wix.com, which fails with many browsers including mine. Blank window. |
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12 Apr 16 - 05:42 PM (#3784963) Subject: RE: Origins: Ravenscroft A round of three country From: Weasel Jack, Thanks for the link to the converter. Yes, that looks like the version I have too. Cheers, Weasel |