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08 Apr 16 - 01:35 PM (#3784241) Subject: BS: EU Referendum From: Raggytash I thought I'd save you the trouble (generous person that I am) You can discuss to your hearts content the various nuances of the current debate. Off you go !! |
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08 Apr 16 - 01:39 PM (#3784243) Subject: RE: BS: EU Referendum From: Richard Bridge Most kind. It is clearly a propagandist leaflet of the feeblest kind, and fails to mention Equality or Workers' Rights or TTIP. As a result of reading that Bremain propaganda I am now leaning more towards Brexit. |
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08 Apr 16 - 01:39 PM (#3784244) Subject: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Stemming from another thread. I am a facilitator. Or someones mother? To kick it off. Here is a link to the leaflet in question. Think nothing of it. |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:03 PM (#3784249) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Snap !! |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:26 PM (#3784256) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford This issue has dropped out of the news, and the discussion on the other thread had dried up anyway. The only loose end was that Steve seemed unable to justify his assertion that, "the government did exactly this in the last election campaign." On previous experience, he won't manage it on either thread. |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:37 PM (#3784259) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome No ones loose end but yours, Keith. No one else really gives a shit. If you are that concerned about it maybe a PM would be better? |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:38 PM (#3784260) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Dropped on of the news? It's dropped that far that just 2 hours ago this was posted on the BBC website |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:47 PM (#3784263) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford I do think that if you make assertions on a thread you should be able to justify them. Refusing to, or not being unable to, does leave a loose end whether you give a shit or not. I just watched the early evening news on both BBC and ITV. No mention of this at all. I have nothing to add to my previous comments anyway. |
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08 Apr 16 - 02:55 PM (#3784266) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome I doubt that very much :-) |
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08 Apr 16 - 03:17 PM (#3784271) Subject: RE: BS: EU Referendum From: Steve Shaw The trouble with this conversation is that the in-crowd are generally going to approve of the damn thing whereas the out-crowd are generally going to cry unfair. I'm an in-crowd man myself, seriously biased, and I think the leaflet is, in general, fairly measured, more helpful than not. As Jim points out, we have the mass gutter press shouting for out, and no-one elected them. On the other side, we have the government producing what I see as a reasonable document making a reasonable case. But the press is not the out campaign and the government is not the in campaign. The government policy is for us to stay. The government policy is also for us to keep Trident, to endorse the chancellor's budget and to make all schools academies. I hate all those policies, but I acknowledge that we lost the bloody election and I'm not going to sit here demanding equal funding in order to put forward my opposition sentiments. |
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08 Apr 16 - 03:27 PM (#3784272) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll The only loose end was that Steve seemed unable to justify his assertion" Nort exactly - you hve yet to explain why youwnted to know if I had the vote - presumably on he basis that if I didn't, I had no right to comment. Incidentally, theelectoral commission, while disapproving of your leder's action in issuing the leaflet, has pointed out that it is perfectly legal - please try to get it right. Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 16 - 03:30 PM (#3784273) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll "I do think that if you make assertions on a thread you should be able to justify them." Quite so - justify yours Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 16 - 03:37 PM (#3784274) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Stanron Despite claims that this leaflet states the Government's position, really it only represents one part of the Government's position. That part is the Eton educated rich boys who don't know the price of a pint of milk. They would support remaining in Europe. It's probably good for their money or their priviliged position or, perhaps, both. It's not necessarily good for the rest of us. |
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08 Apr 16 - 03:46 PM (#3784275) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: DMcG The title does say "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK". The reasons are not necessarily the ones I would choose, but there is no doubt what to expect when you start reading it. On the other hand I got another leaflet entitled "The UK and the European Union: The facts". Nowhere on the leaflet says it from one of the Brexit supporting groups - even now I don't know which - but the presentation suggests a neutral stance, whereas in actuality the chosen facts are highly selective. Of the two, I know which I regard as more honest. |
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08 Apr 16 - 05:06 PM (#3784281) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Richard Mellish Whatever one thinks of the EU, surely what is most significant is that, if we stay in, we know more or less what that will imply, both pros and cons; whereas if the vote is to leave there will THEN be lengthy negotiations over the UK's future relationship with the EU, and no-one knows what the eventual pros and cons will be. Anyone who claims to know is lying or deluded. |
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08 Apr 16 - 06:51 PM (#3784291) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Greg F. I do think that if you make assertions on a thread you should be able to justify them. Preferably, by asserting that "All Historians" agree with you. As long as they're alive. |
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09 Apr 16 - 04:59 AM (#3784340) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford Jim, you hve yet to explain why youwnted to know if I had the vote Yes I did. Quite so - justify yours I always do. Which did you miss? Greg, in three years of hard debate, no-one found anything to challenge that assertion. I quoted historians referring to a consensus which justified my assertion. |
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09 Apr 16 - 05:29 AM (#3784345) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll "Which did you miss?" Why ask if I can vote - it implies that if I can't I hav no right to comment on British politics, which is a claim you have made in the past Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 16 - 05:38 AM (#3784348) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford it implies that if I can't I hav no right to comment on British politics, No it does not. which is a claim you have made in the past No I have not. |
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09 Apr 16 - 05:44 AM (#3784349) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll Yes it does and yes you have - you were warned about it. And still no explanation why you asked the question in the first place - it is none of your business and has no place here Let's leave it there eh - we've both sid all tha's ncessaary to say. Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 16 - 06:52 AM (#3784356) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford And still no explanation why you asked the question in the first place I explained that I was "just interested" because you "may have kept your vote." Yes it does and yes you have - you were warned about it. All made up shit Jim. Why do you do it? You and I both exercise our perfect right to comment on each other's and every other country in the world. |
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09 Apr 16 - 08:13 AM (#3784366) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll "I explained that I was "just interested" because you "may have kept your vote."" Don't believe a word of it - I have no doubt that you were attempting to to use the fact that I no live in Britain to make up for the fact that you ran out of argument - as you have in the past. I reall wish you wouldn't - it doesn't help honest discussion. Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 16 - 08:38 AM (#3784375) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Can you two not get a room? :D |
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09 Apr 16 - 08:59 AM (#3784376) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll "Can you two not get a room?" Tried that Dave, but the neighbours complained about the noise Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 16 - 10:45 AM (#3784385) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford As soon as Jim stops making false accusations, I will stop denying them. |
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09 Apr 16 - 11:01 AM (#3784389) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Me, me, me again and again. Most people are not interested in you enough to even consider whether accusations are true or false. Stop being a boor. |
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09 Apr 16 - 11:06 AM (#3784392) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford I deny false accusations, just as anyone would. Ask Jim to stop making them. |
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09 Apr 16 - 01:56 PM (#3784421) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Jim - :-D Keith. Does it really matter that much if someone you so obviously do not care about, on a forum that not many people read, makes an accusation that you believe to be false? Why not just ignore it as irrelevant like most sensible people? People have said all sorts of crap about me on here. It honestly does not matter. Unless someone tries to bring my loved ones into it or wishes me harm, I really could not give a shit. Focus on what really matters to you instead of the tribal stuff. |
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09 Apr 16 - 01:58 PM (#3784422) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Tribal = trivial. Or does it..? :-) |
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09 Apr 16 - 02:49 PM (#3784428) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford No. Anyone would deny false accusations posted on a forum. Again, why does nobody suggest that Jim refrain from making his accusations, when he can't substantiate one of them? |
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09 Apr 16 - 03:01 PM (#3784429) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Steve Shaw "People have said all sorts of crap about me on here." Yeah Dave, but let's face it. You DID lose those bloody bingo balls in that car park, I AM going to keep saying it, so don't deny it, pal! |
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09 Apr 16 - 03:30 PM (#3784433) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome OK, sob! I admit it. But in my defence Lilo Lil was dancing the several veils at the time... |
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09 Apr 16 - 03:32 PM (#3784436) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome and no, Keith. I really could not give a shit about false accusations on here. |
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09 Apr 16 - 03:50 PM (#3784439) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash You BASTARD !!! you never told me Lilo Lil was dancing, kept that to yourself, What a sneaky little twat you are. False accusations abound on here don't they ! |
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09 Apr 16 - 04:35 PM (#3784447) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Steve Shaw He's like that. What can you do. |
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09 Apr 16 - 05:10 PM (#3784451) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome What a sneaky little twat you are. I thought we were talking about false accusations... :D |
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10 Apr 16 - 04:45 AM (#3784508) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford and no, Keith. I really could not give a shit about false accusations on here. Very amusing Dave. I remind you that just a few days ago you went after Joe for saying something about you that you disagreed with, and then you went after me for the same thing! Anyway, Jim has stopped repeating his lies so as far as I'm concerned the issue is finished. Unfortunately our spat was all that sustained this silly, pointless thread of yours. |
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10 Apr 16 - 04:56 AM (#3784511) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Ah you must mean this silly pointless thread that was begun because of posts like: 1.I do not. Why should one side be allowed to use public money to put their side of the argument, but the other side not. A referendum should be fair to both sides. Both sides should be given equal access to public money. 2. The Government takes one side, and has given that side an unfair advantage using public money. The issue is to be decided by the electorate, just as in an election. The government has a view on the outcome of elections too, but it would be wrong to use public money to push that view. I think that it's legitimate for a government to try to persuade us that their policies are good. Not with our money it's not! Anyway, most of the government hold a different view to Cameron on this, so it is not even the government view! 3. How about a pamphlet about why many of the government have taken the opposite position? All we get is a pamphlet of pro EU propaganda. We can only guess their real agenda. |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:21 AM (#3784530) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Jim Carroll "silly pointless thread" Always "silly and pointless" when you can't find a way to answer them Raggy - thought you'd know that by now! Far from being "pointless" your thread managed to save the equally embarrassing" one on the PM's tax avoidance schemes from getting bogged down in arguments on this leaflet. Whatever people think of the leaflet, it is vital that those voting in the referendum do so on real information rather than having to rely on the sewer press, as we usually do. That's as "pointless" as this thread is. Jim Carroll |
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10 Apr 16 - 06:36 AM (#3784536) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Just one salient point Keith, Dave didn't start this thread. Just saying like. |
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10 Apr 16 - 07:21 AM (#3784543) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome ..and the point is, Keith? |
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10 Apr 16 - 08:20 AM (#3784553) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 08 Apr 16 - 02:47 PM ... I have nothing to add to my previous comments anyway. Followed by - Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 04:59 AM Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 05:38 AM Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 06:52 AM Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 10:45 AM Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 11:06 AM Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 09 Apr 16 - 02:49 PM and Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 10 Apr 16 - 04:45 AM I am really glad that you had nothing further to add. If you had we probably would have got 70 further comments instead of 7 :-) |
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10 Apr 16 - 08:33 AM (#3784556) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash Any minute now ........................... |
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10 Apr 16 - 12:05 PM (#3784588) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford I added nothing to my previous comments on the leaflet. I said all I had to say on the other thread. |
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10 Apr 16 - 12:35 PM (#3784591) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Bit longer than you thought, Raggy, but that is 8 no further comments now... ;-) |
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10 Apr 16 - 01:45 PM (#3784607) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Keith A of Hertford Just one salient point Keith, Dave didn't start this thread. He started the one I posted to Rag. You two clowns both started a thread four minutes apart. One was too many. I did not even notice yours Rag. Sorry. The mods dumped your title and conflated both threads under Dave's. |
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10 Apr 16 - 02:43 PM (#3784618) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Raggytash That's now NINE no further comments, do you think we can start a World Record ? |
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10 Apr 16 - 08:44 PM (#3784682) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: McGrath of Harlow I haven't been here for some time. But looking through this thread is an eye-opener. Has the Mudcat standard of discussion really sunk to tiphis pathetic level? |
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10 Apr 16 - 09:09 PM (#3784685) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Steve Shaw Look across a host of other threads apart from this one, Kevin. You may be pleasantly surprised. |
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11 Apr 16 - 02:44 AM (#3784709) Subject: RE: BS: EU Leaflet From: Dave the Gnome Depends what tiphis is, Kevin :-) Mind you, I suppose that answers your question... At least we can laugh about it! |