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27 Apr 16 - 05:22 PM (#3787507) Subject: Folklore: What the heck is this word From: tiompanista Hey! I'm doing a little [free] research in "Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-Lore Society. ed. H. M. Belden. U. of Missouri Press, 1940, 1966. On page 494 there is a version of "Beautiful Isle O'er the Sea" called "Beautiful Light O'er the Sea," collected by Ada Belle Cowden. The person for whom I'm doing the research wants any specifics I can find about this version, and there's a word in a verse I cannot guess that may be a corruption, a mis-hearing, or some-such. Here's the verse (everyone has heard a version of it): I wish I had the wings of an angel The voice of ANNOVLING dove I'd sail this wide world over And sail to the one that I love Any ideas on "annovling dove"? djames@tiompanalley.com |
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27 Apr 16 - 06:53 PM (#3787514) Subject: ADD: Beautiful Light o'er the Sea From: Joe Offer Looks like we haven't had that one posted before. The Traditional Ballad Index links it to "Meet Me Tonight in the Moonlight" Here are the lyrics from Belden. BEAUTIFUL LIGHT O'ER THE SEA I was out last night a-drinking, I was out the night before, But if I ever get sober I'll never get drunk any more. Chorus: Beautiful light o'er the sea, o'er the sea, O beautiful light o'er the sea, O beautiful light o'er the sea, o'er the sea, There's someone waiting for me. I wish I had the wings of an angel, The voice of annovling* dove, I'd sail this wide world over And sail to the one that I love. I wish I had someone to love me, Someone to call me their own, Someone to guide and protect me, Someone to see me safe home. *So in the MS. I have no suggestion to offer. "Beautiful Light o'er the Sea." From the MS ballad-book of Ada Belle Cowden of Woodlandville, Boone County. Belden's notes: I have not found this maudlin effusion elsewhere, unless it is to be considered a form of 'The Prisoner's Song,' for which see BSSNS 303, MAFLS XXIX 49. from Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-Lore Society, edited by H.M. Belden., Second Edition (1955), page 494 |
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27 Apr 16 - 07:06 PM (#3787517) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Amos I hazard it is a typo but of what I am uncertain. |
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27 Apr 16 - 07:12 PM (#3787519) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: keberoxu It reads like several songs smashed together.... |
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27 Apr 16 - 07:19 PM (#3787523) Subject: ADD: I Was Drunk Last Night From: Joe Offer Roud ties the song to "I Was Drunk Last Night" from Randolph. I WAS DRUNK LAST NIGHT I was drunk last night, my darlin', An' drunk the night before, But if I ever get sober I'll never get drunk any more. CHORUS Beautiful light o'er the sea, the sea, Beautiful light o'er the sea, Beautiful light o'er the sea, the sea, I've only been waitin' for thee. And now I'll gather the roses To twine in my long braided hair, An' when Willie comes in the evenin' He'll smile when he sees me so fair. Sung by Mrs. Marie Wilbur, Pineville, Mo, July 21, 1934. Mrs Wilbur says that it is part of a drinking song well known in the Ozarks. Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs (1980 edition), #407, Volume III, page 140-141 |
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28 Apr 16 - 10:04 AM (#3787608) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Megan L Catalog of Copyright Entries: Musical compositions, Part 3 has an entry for Beautiful light oer the sea: w Rex Lampman, melody Jack Foy. (copyright symbol) 1c. June 2 , 1941. E unp. 260533; peer internatl. corp New York. 21364 Now none of that means a thing to me but it might to someone. found a mention of it here Michigan ballads |
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28 Apr 16 - 12:32 PM (#3787622) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: GUEST,Senoufou I'm not sure if this helps, but 'ovel' is a Hebrew word for to mourn. An 'ovelling dove' would be a mourning dove. I understand that mourning doves are very common in North America, and have a very, well, mournful call! The word ovelling also means moaning or lamenting (I looked up some old sermons online) which comes to the same thing. Just an idea, but it could fit with the sentiments in the song... |
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28 Apr 16 - 12:49 PM (#3787624) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Thompson Hovering dove? But doves don't really hover. |
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28 Apr 16 - 01:21 PM (#3787628) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Joe Offer Sure sounds like a credible idea, Senoufou. Gee, you may have outsmarted Belden, who admits he does not know! -Joe- |
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28 Apr 16 - 03:16 PM (#3787656) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: tiompanista Senoufou, I think you've got it. Makes perfect sense. Now, who was sitting down with her when Anna Bell Cowden transcribed the song (¿A Hebrew speaker?), or from whom did she get it? A Jewish singer with a sense of humor? A Jewish singer who had the song from a Hebrew source--Was the song originally Hebrew? (Like Dona, Dona, Dona, maybe) Any guesses anyone? Megan L, Anna Bell Cowden died before the 1941 copyright date you list. I wonder (it's been done--see Tom Dooley) if Lampman and Foy copyrighted the song in preparation for someone who recorded it, looking for a "hit song"? Thank-you everyone who has responded. This shows the vibrancy of the folksong/folklore community in the U.S. I was amazed at the volume and precision of the responses, and they've brought me back to a Web site, which though 'way old in format--it reminds me of the old listserv_L sites--is still perfect for our needs. |
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28 Apr 16 - 03:37 PM (#3787662) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: tiompanista And . . . there's the Carter's "Beautiful Isle O'er the Sea" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTSMH5uDUbw The sentiments in the "drunk" verses and the sentiments in the "love/sorrow" verses are universal. Had 'em myself at times. |
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29 Apr 16 - 09:13 PM (#3787854) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Helen I did a bit of a search on the Wings of an angel/ wings of a dove lines: I found this page: Ballads & Songs of Southern Michigan-songbook for a song called Seven Long Years, which has the following two lines: If I had the wings of an angel, Or like the wings of a dove, SEVEN LONG YEARS For a vanation of this song see Campbell and Sharp, p. 256; Eddy, No 68, text D; and Fuson, p. 118. The present version was communicated in 1916 by Miss Louise Griffiths, a student in Michigan State Normal College, Ypsilanti; she obtained it from Miss Florence Ott, Halltown, West Virginia, who had learned it from school children. 1 O seven long years I've been married; I wish. I had died an old maid, For now I see nothing but trouble. My husband won't work at his trade. Chorus Beautiful light o'er the ocean, Beautiful light o'er the sea, Beautiful light o'er the ocean, My love, I am waiting for thee. 2 I have to go down to the barroom And get him home if I can. Young girls, you see nothing but trouble When once you are tied to a man. 3 I have to get up in the morning, Work hard and toil all the day; At night I have to get supper And put the dear children to bed. 4 If I had listened to mother, I wouldn't have been here today; But I was so young and so foolish, I had to have my own way. 5 If I had the wings of an angel, Or like the wings of a dove, I'd fly across the wide ocean And light in the arms of my love. The line also reminded me of a verse in: Botany Bay - Oz traditional song Oh had I the wings of a turtle dove I'd soar on my pinions so high Slap bang to the arms of my Polly love And in her sweet presence I'd die I always wondered why that line is common in folk songs, but in my search I discovered that it is also a line from Psalm 55 in the Bible. (Sorry, I never did much Bible reading in my younger days, otherwise I probably would have known that.) |
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30 Apr 16 - 06:03 AM (#3787904) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: BobKnight There's a wee word that seems to be falling out of use these days, and it's "an." It's usually used before a word with a vowel such aa "an Hotel" or "an idea,' therefore it would be grammatically correct to use it before, "loving." So, I suggest that it's TWO words, not one. There you go - sorted!! |
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30 Apr 16 - 10:58 AM (#3787950) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Steve Gardham The 'If I had the wings of a' stanza is indeed a commonplace/floater found in many ballads, laments, prison songs etc. I've used it myself in my own song writing. It makes a great rounding off stanza. |
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01 May 16 - 10:11 AM (#3788115) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: GUEST Here are a couple more speculative ideas: Mr. Breid of Missouri mentioned to me the word "nolve," a type of speech identifying a person, place or thing. In the OED, I find "Nowell," in the 1300s a word shouted or sung as an expression of joy, originally to commemorate Christ's birth, now retained in Chrstmas carols. So, this one is tied to European singing tradition. Thoughts anyone? |
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01 May 16 - 11:17 AM (#3788122) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: GUEST A low flying dove? |
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01 May 16 - 11:29 AM (#3788126) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: GUEST,RaraAvis Could this be a varient of anoven, meaning 'upward'? |
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01 May 16 - 11:40 AM (#3788127) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: mayomick maybe the word was inserted by the same stuck-for-the-right-word person who wrote about twining with raven black hair the non-existent "armitar" flower? |
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01 May 16 - 04:51 PM (#3788175) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Greg F. An loving / a loving. Typo |
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02 May 16 - 12:43 AM (#3788218) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Joe Offer Belden says he got the song "from the MS ballad-book of Ada Belle Cowden of Woodlandville, Boone County," and Belden noted the incomprehensible word in his book. So, I'm wondering what this "MS ballad-book" was - a handwritten book of Cowden's repertoire of songs? -Joe- |
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02 May 16 - 05:28 AM (#3788252) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Brian May "The voice of an ovelling dove" (mournful bird) Sounds the most likely to me - it's two words making 'an' correct preceeding a vowel. |
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02 May 16 - 05:56 AM (#3788253) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Megan L Brian where did you find the definition of ovelling? I couldn't find it in the OE dictionary would love to know . |
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02 May 16 - 11:38 AM (#3788276) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Senoufou Megan L, if you Google 'meaning of ovel' and choose the Collins English Dictionary option, it will give the Hebrew meaning of 'a mourne'r. So presumably, ovelling is mourning. It also gives the rate of useage over 10,50 and 100 years, and shows the word was much-used during the early part of the 20th Century. I learned about the N American Mourning Dove (Zenaida macroura) from my RSPB bird identification book, which says that this bird has a mournful call. It sometimes gets blown off-course and is seen, albeit rarely, in UK. |
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03 May 16 - 02:52 AM (#3788356) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Megan L THanks Senoufou I tried ovelling in the Oxford English and came up with nothing I have the sort of brain that needs to find things :) |
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03 May 16 - 02:56 AM (#3788357) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Senoufou I have hardly any brain left at all, I don't know where it went! :) |
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03 May 16 - 02:58 AM (#3788359) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: eftifino I think it might be as simple as : "The voice of an old lovey-dove" Lovey dove is a widely used term of endearment. |
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03 May 16 - 11:24 AM (#3788421) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: leeneia I think that's the best guess so far, eftifino. It explains the AN, the O, and the V. The G in "The voice of ANNOVLING dove" could have been the Y of "lovey", written carelessly. |
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03 May 16 - 11:36 AM (#3788423) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: tiompanista Senoufou - Thanks for the Collins reference - Here's the next fun twist. "Ovel" makes sense, but what is the Hebrew verbal-noun that corresponds? Certainly not "ovelling" unless you're adapting the original Hebrew word into English (which is, I guess, what's going on here) like the Yiddish "schlep"/ schlepping. |
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03 May 16 - 11:42 AM (#3788424) Subject: RE: What the heck is this word (Beautiful Light o'er.. From: Megan L oh for a time machine :) |