11 Aug 16 - 07:20 PM (#3804634) Subject: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,Luke Bretscher I recently read something about a classic ballad (probably in the Child index). Unfortunately, all I remember is that it had the same story as the German ballad "Der wilde Wassermann" http://ingeb.org/Lieder/EsFreitE.html. That is, a river-monster forcibly weds a maiden; she wishes to leave, but cannot desert her children (especially as there's an odd number of them). Also, I notice that Faun performs "Der wilde Wassermann" to the tune of the Staines Morris Dance. Is that their own idea or does it have more history? |
11 Aug 16 - 08:36 PM (#3804637) Subject: ADD: Der wilde Wassermann From: Joe Offer Well, let's start with the text we know about, since it's easier to discuss something if we don't have to refer to another source. Source: http://ingeb.org/Lieder/EsFreitE.html Der wilde Wassermann Die schöne Lilofee 1. Es freit ein wilder Wassermann Auf der Burg wohl über dem See. Des Königs Tochter wollt er han, |: Die schöne junge Lilofee. :| 2. Sie hörte drunten Glocken gehn 3. Und als sie vor dem Tore stand 4. Und als sie aus der Kirche kam 5. "Sprich, willst du hinuntergehn mit mir 6. "Und eh ich die Kindlein weinen laß There's another interesting version here: Here's the text: Es freit ein wilder Wassermann
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11 Aug 16 - 09:17 PM (#3804645) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer I should be ashamed of myself for posting a Google translation, but I'm late for choir practice and gotta go. I'll fix it later.
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12 Aug 16 - 02:23 AM (#3804652) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer OK, let's see if I can do my own translation and come up with something better. By the way, I found references to this song as early as 1813, and it seems to come from the area around Joachimsthal (in Brandenburg, not far from Berlin). To start off with, "Aquarius" does not seem to be a good translation of Wasserman which refers to any male water spirit. If you look up the term "es freit," most likely you'll end up with this song - the term doesn't seem common elsewhere. Down below, Reinhard says "freien" means to court, so I'll edit that in. I'm still not satisfied with the second-last line, "I will deprive myself of leaves and green grass."
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12 Aug 16 - 02:53 AM (#3804653) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer My first attempt at translation, before help from Reinhard, was this: THE WILD WATER SPIRIT There lived a wild water spirit Before the castle well above the lake He came from royal stock, The beautiful, young Lilofee. That didn't satisfy me, so my second attempt was this:
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12 Aug 16 - 02:56 AM (#3804654) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,Reionhard The Wild Waterman (English translation) Ko e Tangatavai Lolotu (Tongan translation) |
12 Aug 16 - 02:57 AM (#3804655) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,Reinhard German "freien" is English "to court". |
12 Aug 16 - 03:18 AM (#3804656) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer There's another version at http://www.lieder-archiv.de/es_freit_ein_wilder_wassermann-notenblatt_300444.html: Es freit ein wilder WassermannVolkslied (1813)Es freit ein wilder Wassermann Sie hörte drunten Glocken gehn Und als sie vor dem Tore stand, Und als sie aus der Kirche kam Sprich, willst du hinunter gehn mit mir Und eh ich die Kindlein weinen lass |
12 Aug 16 - 03:27 AM (#3804658) Subject: ADD Version: Die Schoene Lilofee From: Joe Offer Now, here's another version, one that centers more on Lilofee. And the bad guy here is a "Nickelmann." What's that? Google says, "a merman." Here's the song: VolksdichtungDie schöne LilofeeEs hat ein König ein Töchterlein. Ein Nickelmann freite so lang um sie Da ließ er von Gold eine Brücke aufstehn, Und als sie auf die Brücke sprang, Sie war dadrunten sieben Jahr, Und da sie bei der Wiege stand, »Ach Nickelmann, lieber Nickelmann, Und als sie auf den Kirchhof kam, Und als sie in die Kirche kam, Der Vater machte die Bank ihr auf, Als sie sich wieder nach Hause gewandt, Sie führten sie oben an ihren Tisch Und als sie den ersten Bissen aß, »Ach liebe Mutter, seid so gut, Da löschte ein Wasser das Feuer aus, »Ei willst du mich hier verbrennen sehn, »Die sieben Kinder, die teilen wir, »Nehm ich ihrer drei, nimmst du ihrer drei. Nehm ich ein Bein, nimmst du ein Bein, »Und eh ich mir laß mein Kind zerteilen, |
12 Aug 16 - 03:47 AM (#3804660) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer More versions to explore here:This was fun, but I gotta go to bed... And to answer Luke's primary question, I don't know of any comparable ballad in the English language. G'nite. -Joe- |
12 Aug 16 - 05:04 AM (#3804671) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Mo the caller Isn't there a story - but the other way round. A mermaid who comes ashore to marry a fisherman. Perennial story of mixed marriage. It wouldn't make such a good song if it was about an Evangelical and an Atheist, even if there are the same tensions. |
12 Aug 16 - 07:28 AM (#3804684) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Jack Campin The ballad seems to ba part of a corpus of stories/songs about relationships between humans and water spirits. The Outlandish Knight may be part of the same group - it ends by providing an alternate ending where the German ballad starts, with the woman throwing the alien being into the river and making her escape. At the other end of the story, The Wife of Usher's Well has three children coming back from the water to revisit their mother. It's been refashioned into a conventional ghost story, but you can see how a different spin on the events could have made it a sequel to Lilofee's story. And as Mo says, the Irish/Orkney version reverses roles. |
12 Aug 16 - 10:22 AM (#3804720) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,Luke Bretscher Ha, I think I've found it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hind_Etin The guy isn't a water-spirit, but he does take the unfortunate maiden into the wilderness and get seven children on her. |
12 Aug 16 - 12:14 PM (#3804728) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: keberoxu Ach, Joe, you don't know your Wagner!! If you knew The Flying Dutchman, and the [imitation] traditional Ballade sung by heroine Senta, then, you would have seen, in the German lyric describing the curse on the Dutchman, the third verse: Vor Anker alle sieben Jahr, ein Weib zu freien, geht er ans Land; Er freite alle sieben Jahr, noch nie ein treues Weib er fand. |
12 Aug 16 - 02:14 PM (#3804751) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Mysha Hi, I don't know Wagner that well either. But what's the relation to the song about the nix? Bye, Mysha |
12 Aug 16 - 03:05 PM (#3804752) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,keberoxu Mysha et al., Senta's Ballade in verse 3 contains the verb "freien" which puzzled Joe Offer in the initial posts. |
12 Aug 16 - 03:21 PM (#3804756) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Mysha Hi, Oh, I see. By the time I got here, he had already edited that in. Joe: Would something like "I'll part myself from leaves and green grass." work? Bye, Mysha |
12 Aug 16 - 06:59 PM (#3804779) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Joe Offer Hi, Mysha - I think I'm missing something of the meaning of the leaves and green grass. Either that, or the ending of the song is a big letdown. If she deprives herself of leaves and green grass (or gets divorced from them), what's the big deal? Where's the drama? -Joe- P.S. I came across an actual German dictionary in a bookstore today, and it said "freien" meant "to woo." I had actual dictionaries in the house last night, but I decided to Google instead of climbing the stairs. Google failed me... |
12 Aug 16 - 07:53 PM (#3804788) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: Mysha Hi Joe, Well, to woo and to court can be used as synonyms, I guess, but yes, to woo would be slightly more explicit. The leaves and the green grass are nature; in that time they are (expected to be) present in any location on solid land. On the other hand, life with a nix, a neck(?) was not natural. It also wasn't like being tempted to enter the splendid hills/halls of the fay folk: The home of a nix was usually supposed to be a miserable place to live for a human, and a nix is an ugly, mean creature that will cause ships to sink and vanish. Thus, by parting from the grass and the leaves, she gives up normal life for the sake of her children. For seven years she has held hope to escape her watery prison and return to her own world on land, but now she gives in to the nix' machinations and willingly goes back to him, giving up her hope so her children may not come to harm. Bye, Mysha |
15 Aug 16 - 06:06 PM (#3805285) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Engl. version of 'Der wilde Wassermann' From: GUEST,Grishka My understanding of the short ingeb version is that the woman, although originally abducted against her will and now escaped to her parents' castle, decides to rejoin her family down in the lake, thus departing from the land with its greenery. A simple story that does not essentially rely on supernatural effects; similar stories can be read in today's newspapers. The variant with the failed divorce agreement seems to be inspired by good old Solomon. In the end, the lady caves in, although she may have contented herself with taking three kids, or sharing the fourth one on a monthly basis (difficult with the school, though). I suspect the author was a man, whose message is that women will prefer to stay with their husbands and children even if abducted and deprived of air to breathe. |