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13 Sep 16 - 05:44 PM (#3809848) Subject: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link Has anyone else seen the vid apparently exposing Hilary Clinton as a one time lawyer who got the rapist of a 12 yr old girl, a light sentence , using foul tactics to humiliate the victim. Now, I am not particularly following US politics but just posing certain questions 1, is it factual 2 as it is in the past, is it relevant , and 3 related , should someone who is exposed as having a background of dishonesty and unfeeling disregard for victims,for their own advancement , be bestowed the top job ? |
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13 Sep 16 - 06:05 PM (#3809852) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel get court transcript. ask yourself related to whom? In ARK. everyone is related. THE us CONSTITUTION guarantees your right to a defense. |
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13 Sep 16 - 06:29 PM (#3809856) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw If you don't know whether it's factual, don't post smears until you've discovered for yourself, via your own research, whether it's factual or not. Of course, knowing you, facts are the least of your priorities. |
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13 Sep 16 - 07:50 PM (#3809864) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Jeri I suggest people check out the facts before they decide to share stories like this. Most of this one is just wrong. Snopes article on it |
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13 Sep 16 - 08:29 PM (#3809870) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw Cheers, Jeri. OK, Pete. Got any similar dirt on Trump? Apologies, yanks, for people this side of the pond like Pete. |
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13 Sep 16 - 08:48 PM (#3809872) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Jeri Cheers, Steve. I suppose I could have just said "what Steve Shaw said", but I took so long looking up and reading the Snopes article that I didn't refresh the thread and see your post. There's the Donald Trump Rape Lawsuit. I don't think anybody accused him of being a lawyer, though. |
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13 Sep 16 - 10:25 PM (#3809878) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Rapparee My wife's a lawyer but I don't think she's ever raped anybody. A good lawyer does what she legally can to give her clients the best possible defense. What is permissible can vary from time period to time period -- I doubt if any lawyer in Britain has had to appeal against peine forte et dure recently, for instance. |
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14 Sep 16 - 04:14 AM (#3809903) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link Yes , the snopes article does put a different perspective on it. It is just as well I was questioning it. Not that this caution deterred certain individuals from personal comments. Maybe some people have difficulty comprehending the difference between an enquiry and an accusation. Or maybe I did not spell it out sufficiently. Either way, it is good to know that observational inquiry in the here and now to establish facts has verified exaggeration at the very least. |
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14 Sep 16 - 05:15 AM (#3809906) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw Disingenuous. Your opening post started with a smear that the Daily Mail would be proud of, not to speak of the thread title. The criticism you've received is fully deserved. |
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14 Sep 16 - 08:37 AM (#3809921) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Jim Carroll "using foul tactics to humiliate the victim" Hardly fair blaming Clinton for doing her job well. That seems to be how the legal system works, here and over the Pond, which is why the rate of conviction is so low and why rape is among the most unreported crimes. A rethink of our attitude to women might - just - help change things, maybe AND HERE'S JUST THE FELLER TO DO IT, in the States, anyway . Jim Carroll |
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14 Sep 16 - 10:25 AM (#3809936) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Backwoodsman I had a friend who was a Solicitor (lawyer) who made his money as a defence lawyer. I asked him once if he ever thought his client was guilty, and he replied, "Oh yes, often". "So how can you defend them if you know they're guilty?". His response was that our legal system requires every person accused to be given access to a defence on the assumption that he is innocent, and that means, therefore, that the lawyer who takes his case is also under a duty of oath to do so on the assumption that he is innocent, and use every legal means at his disposal to achieve a 'Not Guilty' verdict. |
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14 Sep 16 - 12:31 PM (#3809955) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Senoufou Well said, Backwoodsman. I attended quite a few Crown Court trials when some of 'my' prisoners re-offended. It was obvious they were blooming guilty; everyone knew they were, but it had gone to trial (with a jury) and British Justice being what it is, they had to regarded (as you say) as innocent before being proven guilty. Their defence lawyers were always at pains to do their best to defend them vigorously. Only in this way could Justice be seen to be done, and the verdict arrived at be a safe one. I always felt quite proud of our system; it seemed fair and...well...just! I also liked the presentation of 'mitigation' before sentencing. Several of these lads had 'issues'and appalling childhoods etc, and the judge was always made aware of this by the defence lawyers. |
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14 Sep 16 - 12:33 PM (#3809956) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel Our betters pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. what does trump pledge? ( that was a rhetorical question ) |
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14 Sep 16 - 03:52 PM (#3809979) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link I think that's a very good point senoufou , though how that balances out with not victimising a victim by intrusive interrogation in court as well as being sexually violated previously ,I don't know, especially when a minor is in question as in the opening example. |
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14 Sep 16 - 03:58 PM (#3809982) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel It is our nature to fear a dark purpose in the unknown but True evil may lie more in true ignorance than in mere suspicion. |
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14 Sep 16 - 04:01 PM (#3809983) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Senoufou I would have thought that, where the victim was a minor, the judge would have a very tight control over the type of questioning and its vigour. However, unlikely though it might be, there have been cases of false accusations of rape, and the court has to be sure that the crime actually did take place. It is as you say Pete, a balance. (Hence the scales in the hands of 'Justice'!) The tenor of the procedure should always be monitored firmly by the judge hearing the case. I'm very interested in Justice and the legal system, in crime and punishment. (I'm a Libran!) |
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14 Sep 16 - 04:43 PM (#3809986) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel The case transcript is either in the library of Congress or the Ann Arbor Michigan University Law Library. Whether it is digitized or not is unknown to me. Who has the case# and year? Backwoodsman usually insists upon facts, transcripts, proof and journalistic vigor instead of assuming in the dark. What he posted was accurate but was presented as hearsay. Jim Carrol, Based on your last link do you too find it believable that Donald is a pornographer behind the scenes. |
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15 Sep 16 - 02:48 AM (#3810016) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Backwoodsman What I presented, Donuel old chum, was an explanation, given to me by a qualified, very experienced lawyer, of how the legal profession deals with the issue of providing a defence for an accused person when the defending lawyer is aware, or has strong suspicions, that the accused is actually guilty. You call it 'hearsay'. Here it is from the Barrister David Whitehouse, QC (if you don't know what a Barrister is, try Google), in writing. Is that OK for you?..... "Usually I have my own view of the merits of the defence, but even if the prosecution case is very strong, if my client tells me he's innocent I have to act for him, because it is a cardinal rule of the profession that we are not allowed to refuse to represent someone because we don't like them or because we don't believe in their case. Otherwise, some people wouldn't get a barrister to defend them at all. The system is based on the idea that there's a barrister on each side, the jury looks at the case from both angles and makes up its mind. It only works properly if both sides are represented." Source: 'The Guardian' article, 7th January, 2006. |
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15 Sep 16 - 03:26 AM (#3810020) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Senoufou Donuel,I fail to see how Backwoodsman was 'assuming in the dark' Everyone in England knows that one assumes an accused is innocent before being proven guilty. It doesn't need to be 'in writing'. And I'm perfectly sure he wasn't lying about his conversation with his friend the Solicitor. Either one believes what one reads on this forum (from regular and accredited posters such as Backwoodsman) or one doesn't. Demanding written proof is a bit over the top in my opinion. If one looked askance at every lawyer who had ever defended someone on remand accused of a serious crime, one would have to dismiss a vast number of them, since it's their job! |
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15 Sep 16 - 04:12 AM (#3810028) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Jim Carroll "Based on your last link do you too find it believable that Donald is a pornographer behind the scenes." Sorry - not sure I understand you. I put that up because I believe Trump to be a mindless misogynist, racist thug who shouldn't be allowed out without being tagged, let alone be considered for the head of State of a nuclear facilitated nation with a dubious record on human rights. That there may be a few questionable bits in that link is irrelevant - this feller makes Nixon, Reagan and George Dubya look like a bunch of idealistic, bleeding-heart charity working college professors. Why on earth has he been allowed to come this far - what is happening to America? It's like resetting the nuclear clock back to one minute to midnight as it was at the height of the Cold War. Must get to work on digging our shelter in the back garden!!! Jim Caroll |
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15 Sep 16 - 04:51 AM (#3810031) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Stu There's something disturbing about the way the anti-Hillary/rightwing crowd present some of their arguments; a barely concealed passive-aggressive assault using insinuation and implication to smear an opponent regardless of the truth. This constant slurring of her (and others) is driven by belligerence and hatred rather than any desire for genuine political discourse, and lends a sense of incivility to the proceedings that is unpleasant and reflects badly on us all. The first post in this thread is a case in point: no attempt to present any actual facts, no effort to discover the facts prior to posting just an ad hominem attack lazily presented as a question. Trump is supported by some pretty nasty types, and although Hillary is a shill for corporate governance (as are many politicians world over) an ideology driven by ignorance, hatred and fear is a dangerous and heady mix in certain circumstances and in straitened times we need to guard against heading down a dark and terrible path. Again. |
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15 Sep 16 - 06:59 PM (#3810105) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link Sorry to disappoint you stu, but I have no hatred toward Hillary Clinton . Maybe you got a point about lazy. I could I suppose have trawled the internet and got lots of opinion and different accounts, but I decided to ask the mudcat crew ,as I thought it might be interesting, and be good to ascertain what the truth is. I have no problem believing the most favourable account . As I said earlier, I am not actively following US politics , but it seems you , stu, are doing what you accuse me of in your post ! Seems typical that certain posters try to stifle civil discussion by imputing ill feeling and malice against those with whom they disagree. |
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15 Sep 16 - 07:11 PM (#3810108) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw Rubbish. Your headline was a smear and the first sentence of your original post was a smear. Civil discussion was the least of your priorities. |
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16 Sep 16 - 03:26 AM (#3810129) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Stu " I have no problem believing the most favourable account " It's not about believing the most favourable account Pete, it's about finding out the facts and having an informed opinion. To suggest the thread title "Rapist lawyer for the top job" carries no connotations is a tad insulting to say the least. "Seems typical that certain posters try to stifle civil discussion by imputing ill feeling and malice against those with whom they disagree." Nope. I bear no malice towards you at all Pete, whether you choose to believe that or not. I disagree with you though, as your arguments are often based on assumption and hearsay, not fact. |
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16 Sep 16 - 04:08 AM (#3810131) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Senoufou The word 'rapist' in the thread title means 'a person who has raped' The word then transfers itself to the following noun, ie 'a lawyer who has raped'. Just as in 'fraudster lawyer' would indicate 'a lawyer who commits fraud'. But a 'fraud lawyer' would be one who deals with fraud cases. If Donuel had used the title 'Rape Lawyer' one would have assumed it was one who dealt with cases of rape, not one who indulged in the practice himself! Either the title was intended to titillate and smear, or it was an error of grammar and an inaccurate choice of words. |
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16 Sep 16 - 05:31 AM (#3810137) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw The unfortunate fact is that this thread exists at all. |
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16 Sep 16 - 08:51 AM (#3810149) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link I stand corrected senoufou, for grammatical error and inaccurate choice of words,vfor which I apologise . Glad you are malice free stu. Of course we often think each others arguments are based on hearsay and assumption, but in this case I was making no argument at all ! |
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16 Sep 16 - 08:57 AM (#3810150) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Jeri You tried to spread lies and manipulate facts, Pete, so indeed you did take a stand on the wrong side of this. Changing thread title to be less inflammatory...and wrong. |
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16 Sep 16 - 04:21 PM (#3810187) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Pete from seven stars link No problem with changing thread title, jeri. I have already admitted my mistake. But it does seem to me that there is a personal agenda here, though of course I could not prove that......anymore than you can prove your allegation against me ! Have a nice day. |
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16 Sep 16 - 05:21 PM (#3810192) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Steve Shaw Sheesh. |
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16 Sep 16 - 05:48 PM (#3810195) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Stilly River Sage Just jumping to the bottom to say this was debunked years ago. But that doesn't stop haters from hating. |
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17 Sep 16 - 02:23 AM (#3810215) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Stu This is a wind-up. |
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17 Sep 16 - 11:11 AM (#3810241) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel Like father like son "The media has built her up. they've let her slide on every indescrepancy, on every lie, on every DNC game trying to get Bernie Sanders out of this thing, If Republicans were doing that, They'd be warming up the gas chambers right now!" Donald Trump Jr. 1210 WPHT Radio I did not know you have to warm up Gas Chambers Are the benches cold on Catholic and Jewish tushies ? |
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17 Sep 16 - 12:10 PM (#3810245) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Donuel Bear in mind the issue of this thread is primarily election propaganda. Propaganda does not operate under rules of a Court of Law. My own sarcasm is offensive but deservedly so. PS Yes Senofou I should not respond to individuals based on what they say in a different thread like Deaf man shot by Police no matter how overly criticizing it is.. I welcome criticism but do not live for it. My skin got thin for a moment. For clarity's sake I propose that it will be discovered that Trump does a great deal of business not just with Iran and Libya but also in the porn industry, up to his elbows. We only have his business dealings to judge in the absence of any political record. Without a Tax return or eyes inside blind trusts we will not know prior to the election. |
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18 Sep 16 - 10:51 AM (#3810345) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job ? From: Greg F. pete and Ake should get together and form The Delusional Fact-Free Clinton Haters' Association. Good "Christians" both. |
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18 Sep 16 - 05:06 PM (#3810371) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow Now bringing in a sectarian sneer like that, Greg, is actually just the same thing that is rightly criticised in the context of Trumpery. |
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18 Sep 16 - 05:32 PM (#3810372) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow After posting that it occurred to me that the word "Trumpery" is peculiarly appropriate - Trumpery: noun plural -eries 1. foolish talk or actions 2. a useless or worthless article; trinket adjective 3. useless or worthless In fact it seems so remarkably apposite that it might have been coined for the man, though in fact it goes back to Middle English and before. I anticipate that in future years most people coming across it will assume it was made up for dear Donald. In fact in time it could be his only toehold on immortality - -nd most appropriately in that case it would be one to which he was not in fact entitled. I recommend the word should be used frequently in the next few weeks. |
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18 Sep 16 - 06:00 PM (#3810373) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Pete from seven stars link As you say Mcgraph ".....it could be....." Seems to be doing pretty well though despite being thoroughly demonised. Just as an outside observer with no particular affiliation .i do note though that he has come out as pro life , but whether that is a political expediency , or moral considerations I know not. |
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18 Sep 16 - 06:44 PM (#3810376) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow He's previously expressed the complete opposite view - it appears he'll say just about anything. I don't think "come out" is really appropriate, it implies making a genuine commitment, and that's just not how he works. Walt Whitman's words are particulary apt in the case of Donald: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." Except Donald would never say anything as honest as that about himself. |
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18 Sep 16 - 06:58 PM (#3810378) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. Now bringing in a sectarian sneer like that, Greg, Sneer? Nothing of the kind. Fact. pete might want to review something in his bible regarding "bearing false witness". Or not. "Christians"[sic] can be kind of slippery..... |
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18 Sep 16 - 09:31 PM (#3810385) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow Still doing it. How about if you substitute "Jews", "Muslims", "non-believers", "women", "gays" etc, if any of those happened to be applicable? Still be a sneer in this context. And a pointless diversion, as would continuing this particular side issue. The thing with Trump isn't that he gets "demonised". It's that he demonises himself - and that millions of Americans like him for it. And the other millions who don't - and the countless outsiders looking in and feeling sick at what they see - aren't reacting to what gets said about him, but to what they see on screen when he is on show. |
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19 Sep 16 - 04:57 AM (#3810403) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton Well Mr McGrath.....the establishment have much the same view of Mr Corbyn and his supporters. The important thing is that people who had lost interest in politics are being re-energised and are starting to question the status quo. I also see a huge worldwide backlash against "liberalism" and its social excesses. "liberalism" has dehumanised much of society, we are now forced to live by self appointed committees. |
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19 Sep 16 - 07:06 AM (#3810412) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: DMcG Funny word, liberalism. The social excesses you refer to are, I guess, things connected with free movement and protections for workers rights, whereas the excesses of liberalism I see are those of neoliberalism deriving from 19th century liberalism like deregulation and world trade agreements that can cause whole countries to be sued. |
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19 Sep 16 - 07:44 AM (#3810414) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Stilly River Sage Liberal = Empathy = Great Society |
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19 Sep 16 - 09:16 AM (#3810421) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Stu Ace's version of "liberalism" is an elusive and fickle entity. No-one is sure exactly what or who he is talking about. A definition would be "useful". |
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19 Sep 16 - 09:20 AM (#3810422) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. Still be a sneer in this context. No, Kevin - its simply pointing out pete's hypocrisy in this one instance of many similar ones. Full stop. |
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19 Sep 16 - 09:42 AM (#3810427) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jeri Liberals, the left, want to change things. Conservatives, the right, want things to stay the same. Simple and classic, but that's fundamentally what the fight is about. Look at it from farther away, and you realize it's that back-and-forth that means things will change, but will do so slowly...most of the time. I do find it's hard for me these days to suffer fools, although I'll admit it's my definition of "fools". People who believe and spread lies without bothering to check facts, people who are so hard-wired that most can predict what they're going to say on a given issue or in response to certain people. It's just not fun talking to the programming. While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election, it's also off-putting to the point that few Americans want to get involved in the threads once the boors get the bit in their teeth. So peace, out. |
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19 Sep 16 - 10:50 AM (#3810431) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Stu "While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election" Well, we all have a stake in the US election even if most folk outside the states have only seen the US on the telly. The decision you make will affect all of us and affect many people beyond your borders in a very profound and personal way, and people the world over take a very close interest, and so they should. So you aren't needed for the debate to happen, although of course (in my worthless opinion) it's always better to get the views of those who will at least exert influence over the outcome, and will have to cope with their country's choice, even if it goes against their own view (see 'Brexit'). |
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19 Sep 16 - 11:31 AM (#3810435) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Stu Which isn't supposed to sound disrespectful, please understand. |
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19 Sep 16 - 11:56 AM (#3810439) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Teribus Greg F. - 19 Sep 16 - 09:20 AM - careful now Greg F. pointing out the hypocrisy of others appears to be frowned upon - or does that only apply to one side? |
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19 Sep 16 - 01:26 PM (#3810461) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. No, T-Bird, not frowned upon by me. As your own hypocrisy has been called out many times, its entirely understandable that you should be tetchy about it. However, fundagelical "Christian"(sic) pete is a special case in this regard. |
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19 Sep 16 - 01:34 PM (#3810462) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Teribus Example please Greg - oh of course I forgot, your good at accusations, very poor on anything to substantiate them. |
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20 Sep 16 - 03:02 AM (#3810532) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton Had a look at the Jeri's link, but it is pretty inconclusive regarding Mrs Clintons motives. The whole sorry episode has no real bearing on the present electoral situation.......except for the laughter over matters which are shocking and immoral. This seems to be a character trait which I first noticed in Mrs Clinton's weird and un-statesmanlike reaction to the horrific murder of Col Gadhafi. |
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20 Sep 16 - 03:21 AM (#3810536) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton "While it's somewhat entertaining to watch a bunch of British people fight about our USA election, it's also off-putting to the point that few Americans want to get involved in the threads once the boors get the bit in their teeth. So peace, out. " What is so disturbing is that so few US members want to discuss politics.....are they simply turned off by the obvious corruption at the heart of the Pub/Dem. charade?.......Are they afraid free discussion will open a can of worms......why are people supposedly "of the left", prepared to vote for an icon of the establishment when they had the choice of a real reformer? I think most people who consider politics in the US are deeply ashamed of the electoral system which they tolerate. The UK is tied to US foreign policy in many ways and we are perfectly entitled to give our views. |
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20 Sep 16 - 03:42 AM (#3810538) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jim Carroll "The word 'rapist' in the thread title means 'a person who has raped'" Technically, maybe, but in the wider context, it needs to be applied to an individual or society who helps maintain a situation where rape is encouraged and even commonplace. Rape is one one of the most unreported crimes and it is the most humiliating and difficult ones to prosecute ad prove - the victim almost inevitably finds herself (invariably it is a woman) defending her own behaviour and sexual history. Trump, as an individual, has made it plain that he regards women as 'available meat' and he has also made it clear that he would attempt to maintain a society where women remain second-class citizens - like the 'Page Three' society we still have in Britain - a rapists candidate. Some of the views that have emerged regarding Clinton indicate that it is little different in the States. It's always seemed odd to me that we should be talking about 'the first woman President of the U.S.' in the 21st century - doesn't that put them behind countries like India and Pakistan, who hardly have the best reputations in regard to women? Hopefully Clinton won't turn out to be another Thatcher, but she was always regarded as a 'token man' anyway. Yes - I do believe Trump to be a rapist - in outlook. Jim Carroll |
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20 Sep 16 - 05:52 AM (#3810546) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Teribus Pakistan has never had a female Head of State India's first female President was Pratibha Patil who was Head of State between 2007 and 2012 |
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20 Sep 16 - 06:09 AM (#3810547) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Teribus "countries like India and Pakistan, who hardly have the best reputations in regard to women?" So according the posters view of Donald Trump {a rapist - in outlook} does that make India and Pakistan rapist states? Thankfully the poster who stated the above is of an age whereby he can no longer be called for Jury service, "objectivity" is a different planet to him and he has not got the foggiest notion of what constitutes "evidence". I would have thought that any candidate in a US Presidential election who even gave the slightest hint that "he regards women as 'available meat' and he has also made it clear that he would attempt to maintain a society where women remain second-class citizens then their political aspirations would be dead in the water - WHY? - 70.4 million women cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men. |
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20 Sep 16 - 06:25 AM (#3810551) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: DMcG Just as a point of order: male rape does happen (from one article "Survivors UK estimates that across the UK between 2010 and 2014, 679,051 sexual assaults and rapes of males took place. Of these 652,568 were not reported to any police force." Quite how they were able to get these figures is hard to say but around 7,500 seem to have been reported to the police. Under-reporting is thought to be more severe than for rape of women. It doesn't invalidate your main point, Jim, but I think you would not have just that that 'invariably it is a woman' in if you had paused a little longer. |
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20 Sep 16 - 08:29 AM (#3810559) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jim Carroll "It doesn't invalidate your main point, Jim, but I think you would not have just that that 'invariably it is a woman' in if you had paused a little longer" I totally accept that male rape happens, but I am left with the impression that the pressure put on women in court in relation to their sexual history largely outnumbers that of males. It seems to be male promiscuity is acceptable while it isn't the case with women. I may be totally wrong about this - I'm not sure there are figures on this "Thankfully the poster who stated the above is of an age whereby he can no longer be called for Jury service" I suppose some of the more insecure among us find it necessary to turn these discussions into personal attacks - takes all sorts... Trump's record concerning women SPEAKS FOR ITSELF He is not exactly noted for thinking before he opens his mouth, on anything - pretty much like some of the posters on this forum who coose to behave as they do. Jim Carroll |
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20 Sep 16 - 08:56 AM (#3810560) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jim Carroll Incidentally Indira Priyadarshini Gandhi (Hindustani: [ˈɪnːdɪrə ˈɡaːnd̪ʱi] ( listen); née Nehru; 19 November 1917 – 31 October 1984) was an Indian politician and central figure of the Indian National Congress party, and to date the only female Prime Minister of India. Jim Carroll |
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20 Sep 16 - 09:43 AM (#3810566) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jeri Ake, it's not that I don't want to talk about politics. It's that I don't want to talk about US politics with you or the other chronic arguers who inhabit these threads, take them over, talk the subject to death and then start over again. Especially not when I've read it all so frequently I know what you're going to type before I read it. I may make an occasional comment, but I don't enjoy the sort of repetitive, frustrating muckraking by people who can't even vote in our election that some obviously do. Mostly them. |
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20 Sep 16 - 10:26 AM (#3810571) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Steve Shaw "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as others see us! It wad frae monie a blunder free us, An' foolish notion." Take heed, yanks. There's many a foolish notion afoot in your politics at the moment. |
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20 Sep 16 - 11:01 AM (#3810577) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Teribus Difference between Head of State and Prime Minister (Head of Government). |
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20 Sep 16 - 11:17 AM (#3810580) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton On the subject of "male rape" I think it will be found that by far the largest number are perpetrated by other men. It is not in the nature of women to force sex on another person. |
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20 Sep 16 - 11:25 AM (#3810581) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Steve Shaw Here we go. Homophobes Incorporated wheedle their way in again. |
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20 Sep 16 - 11:31 AM (#3810583) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton Simply stating an incontrovertible truth. |
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20 Sep 16 - 11:56 AM (#3810587) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: DMcG I don't want to get into this apart from making the point that whether the victim is male or female, it is much more likely to be about power than sex. As for the figures, they are available from the Ministry of Justice for the UK. |
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20 Sep 16 - 12:33 PM (#3810591) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Nigel Parsons Hillary Clinton, as a defence attorney, acted to defend her client. The law requires cases to be held with an attorney for the prosecution, and an attorney for the defence. The fact that the person currently running for the job of President of the USA did her job should be seen as a positive. If she had refused to do her job (whether believing her client to be innocent or guilty)then it would be a failure of the US legal system. I don't fully understand US politics, or law, but I believe the above to be accurate. Can anyone correct my assumptions? If not, I think there's no more to be said. |
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20 Sep 16 - 01:51 PM (#3810598) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Nigel Parsons From: Jim Carroll - PM Date: 20 Sep 16 - 03:42 AM "The word 'rapist' in the thread title means 'a person who has raped'" Technically, maybe, but in the wider context, it needs to be applied to an individual or society who helps maintain a situation where rape is encouraged and even commonplace. Rape is one one of the most unreported crimes and it is the most humiliating and difficult ones to prosecute ad prove - the victim almost inevitably finds herself (invariably it is a woman) defending her own behaviour and sexual history. If it's 'unreported, we wouldn't know about it. I assume Jim means 'under-reported' |
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20 Sep 16 - 01:53 PM (#3810599) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Backwoodsman Pretty much what I said, way back up the thread, Nigel, but it was poo-poo'd as 'hearsay' by one of our American friends. |
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20 Sep 16 - 01:55 PM (#3810600) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. It is not in the nature of women And you base your expertise on "the nature of women" upon...... homophobia? |
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20 Sep 16 - 02:13 PM (#3810603) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Nigel Parsons From: Backwoodsman - PM Date: 20 Sep 16 - 01:53 PM Pretty much what I said, way back up the thread, Nigel, but it was poo-poo'd as 'hearsay' by one of our American friends. That's okay. Just testing the waters, and seeing what the level of the discussion is. |
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20 Sep 16 - 02:17 PM (#3810604) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Backwoodsman Thanks Nigel. Just to be clear, I was responding to your comment of 12:33 PM, not the later one at 01:51 PM. |
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20 Sep 16 - 02:18 PM (#3810606) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton The statistics say quite categorically that the vast majority of "male rapes" are perpetrated by men. Women as perpetrators of rape are extremely uncommon. What the fuck has "homophobia" got to do with it? I do not believe for one moment that forced sex is in "the nature of women"......but it certainly is in the nature of men. |
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20 Sep 16 - 03:49 PM (#3810612) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. I do not believe for one moment that forced sex is in "the nature of women" No-one gives a fart in a high wind what nonsence you "believe" Ake - what can you provide evidence for & can substantiate? Or is this more in the nature of your anti-Clinton delusions and misinformation? |
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20 Sep 16 - 06:51 PM (#3810623) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow When putting in a quote from someone's post, it's a good idea to put in an indication of whose post it was. Get's confusing otherwise. I think there is actually pretty strong evidence that very few women rape men, Greg, and that virtually all rape of either sex is perpetrated by men. |
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21 Sep 16 - 04:03 AM (#3810653) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jim Carroll "If it's 'unreported, we wouldn't know about it. I assume Jim means 'under-reported'" Somewhat 'semantical' Nige - not unlike the PM President defence above. Jim Carroll UNREPORTED RAPES "The statistics say quite categorically that the vast majority of "male rapes" are perpetrated by men" The vast majority of ALL rapes are carried out by men - nothing to do with "nature" - it is a mans crime and is a diversion from what is being discussed. The male orientated society we live in does much to promote it. Jim Carroll |
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21 Sep 16 - 08:15 AM (#3810679) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow It is actially something to do with "nature", insofar as that term includes anatomy. I think it is accepted that male rape is in many cases carried out by people who would not identify themselves as gay. |
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21 Sep 16 - 08:50 AM (#3810683) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: akenaton From CDC....."A CDC study found that, in the US, 1 in 71 men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime. The same study found that approximately 1 in 21 or 4.8% men in a survey had been made to penetrate someone else, usually an intimate partner or acquaintance.[34] A NWAV Survey found that 0.1 percent of men surveyed had been raped in the previous 12 months, compared to 0.3 percent of women. Using these statistics it was estimated that, in the US, 92,748 men had been raped in the previous year.[35] In another study by the School of Public Health at Boston University, 30 percent of gay and bisexual men reported having experienced at least one form of sexual assault during their lifetimes. [36] |
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21 Sep 16 - 09:58 AM (#3810700) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Jim Carroll " men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime." Has this got any relevance here us is it yet another opportunistic outing for our tame homophobe? It is estimated that I in 5 women in Britain aged between 16 and 59 have suffered some form of sexual violence. 31% od young women between the ages of 16 and 24 have reported experiencing sexual violence during childhood. Rape crisis centres have reported having to deal with an average of 3,000 rapes per week. "I think it is accepted that male rape is in many cases carried out by people who would not identify themselves as gay" Very true. I'd love to be a fly-on-the wall when Ake and his like goes to Walton Gaol and tells the cons who indulge in man-to-man sex there that they are gay And some of those beefy sailors I used to work with.....!! The same with clerical rape - the majority of these are overwhelmingly opportunistic rather than homosexual. That's what homophobia has to do with it - certainly nothing to do with the subject in hand - unless you are suggesting Donald and Hilly are.... nah....! Jim Carroll . Jim Carroll |
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21 Sep 16 - 02:45 PM (#3810735) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow I haven't actually seen anything homophobic in this thread. Aken pointedout that, whoever is getting raped, it's going to be a man that does it. But in itself that is surely neither controversial not homophobic, Raping is very much a man's problem, while being raped is a potential problem for both men and women, though particularly for women. |
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21 Sep 16 - 05:46 PM (#3810752) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Greg F. Aken pointed out that, whoever is getting raped, it's going to be a man that does it. NOT. Get a grip. |
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21 Sep 16 - 06:27 PM (#3810759) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: McGrath of Harlow Not men who do the raping? Or do you mean that's not what aken said? The post I referred to said"On the subject of "male rape" I think it will be found that by far the largest number are perpetrated by other men. My summary seems fair enough. .............................. This thread has drifted rather far. I suppose the only relevance of this stuff about it being men who do the raping is that it underlines why a defendant in a rape case might have insisted on having a female lawyer, regardless of whether or not she would have preferred not to be landed in the role. |
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21 Sep 16 - 06:49 PM (#3810765) Subject: RE: BS: Rapist's lawyer for top job-ElectionPropaganda From: Steve Shaw Jaysus, of all the threads here that I've seen drift into stupid territory, this one takes the biscuit. Wassup with you, Kevin? |