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12 Dec 16 - 06:41 AM (#3825947) Subject: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Mathew Has anyone noticed the seeming lack of young people playing folk music? I have become a regular performer at my local folk club in the past months, and I have noticed that I am the only performer under 30 (I am nearly 23) Is there something I am missing or is folk music dying? I can't find another dude to make a harmony duo with and its sad. Any young folkies in Southwestern Ontario? Is there a different folk music community more geared towards the young? Any answers would be lovely, Cheers all, Mathew |
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12 Dec 16 - 07:15 AM (#3825952) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,DTM I didn't get right into the folk scene until I reached my 50's. Maybe folk singing is just a thing that old people do, like lawn bowling & bingo. |
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12 Dec 16 - 07:18 AM (#3825953) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,DTM Re. my post above - Sorry, I couldn't find a "tongue-in-cheek" smilie anywhere. ;-) |
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12 Dec 16 - 07:21 AM (#3825954) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Guest Hmm... well, I'm 39 years old; my beard is greying and my bald patch is expanding. I've been playing music for well over 20 years - yet I still get referred to as 'young' by people on the folk scene! |
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12 Dec 16 - 07:27 AM (#3825955) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Mr Red They are at Folk Festivals. Dancing a lot. It is what yoof do. The young musicians are there, having come with their parents for years. And I have to say the ones I meet, and they do rather like to joke with a man in red, are a credit to society and the Folk World. The demographic of old fogies in Folk is a product of the Skiffle going on Bob Dylan era. Added to which, I presume, young people are doing what young people do, hanging out with the crowd. I am sorry Mathew - it may require another generation for Folk to be high fashion, say when your children are teen/twenty. But you are in a prime position to teach them the value of Folk music. And teach them to play music. Enjoy being 23 and being comfortable with old fogies, it is what Folk should be. And if you spot me at a Festival - say hello. |
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12 Dec 16 - 07:36 AM (#3825956) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,padgett Seem to have some young folkies coming along in dear old England (UK) and Scotland ~ some convergence in Sheffield (Yorks) and the Scottish musicians and singers scene too! Sheffield has two Universities and a number of established venues with regular meetings of ~ unaccompanied largely harmony trad sessions, musicians sessions, mixed sessions and folk clubs fortunately involving the likes of Jesse Arrowsmith, Jon Boden/Fay Hield, Jim MCDonald, Paul and Liz Davenport and other movers and shakers This attracts new singers and gives them a platform for their future development and confidence Ray |
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13 Dec 16 - 04:35 AM (#3826159) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Rob Naylor There are loads of them about in the UK at least....they just don't often come to regular clubs (unless as booked artistes). A few I can think of offhand over here in UK are: Gilmore and Roberts Cardboard Fox Carrivick Sisters Ninebarrow MG Boulter Askew Sisters Kris Drever (OK, nearly 40 now) Flats and Sharps Loads more..... At the local level, I see a fair number at open mics. Only a week back I heard a 22 year old at an open mic in Devon do a lovely version of "She Moved Through The Fair". I've taken a few along to local folk clubs, but they never stick....a lot of younger people seem more comfortable with the open mic "ambience". |
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13 Dec 16 - 05:00 AM (#3826162) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,ST "Seem to have some young folkies coming along ... Sheffield has two Universities and a number of established venues with regular meetings of ~ unaccompanied largely harmony trad sessions, musicians sessions, mixed sessions and folk clubs ... This attracts new singers and gives them a platform for their future development and confidence " (GUEST:padgett 12/16:07.36a.m.) eg Alice Baillie : Patrick Rose to name just two who have an internet presence. There seem to be lots of others around as well - or is it just that everyone looks young to me these days? |
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13 Dec 16 - 05:46 AM (#3826168) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST Define "young". |
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13 Dec 16 - 06:38 AM (#3826175) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Myrtle's cook 'Define young' As someone who has been singing at singarounds, clubs etc for at least 30 years, starting as a teenager, I have frequently been the youngest participant. Age has often seemd no more than a number, and I have been lucky enough to make many enduring friendships through music and song. Many of those apparently 'older' singers had taken up music 'later' in life so have been on a parallel journey in many ways. The vigour and passion in the delivery and banter of many of the singers at these clubs would certainly be described as 'young at heart'. One of the great bonuses of gatherings of 'older' singers is hearing the wealth of material being shared - not just the songs popular today - but drawing on a wealth of material cherry picked over a lifetime. Then the sharing of tips and advice... Perhaps its just where you feel comfortable, but I would never use age as an initial criteria |
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13 Dec 16 - 07:22 AM (#3826183) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST [quote] A few I can think of offhand over here in UK are: [/quote] Yes there is a welcome band of young professional musicians but not a new core of young flooor singers and audience to maintain the grass roots scene for another generation. |
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13 Dec 16 - 07:23 AM (#3826184) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,guest Re: Rob Naylor's list of 'young' folkies: "Kris Drever (OK, nearly 40 now)" It's all relative, isn't it? If Kris had gone into male modelling instead of music, he'd be long well past it. Ancient. Perhaps it was wise of him to get into folk music, the only scene I know of where people are still 'young' at the age of 40! |
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13 Dec 16 - 07:43 AM (#3826186) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: JMB I'm thirty-one next month. I've been into folk music a long time. I'm in Nova Scotia. |
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13 Dec 16 - 08:19 AM (#3826192) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,IainG JMB where abouts are you in Nova Scotia? I am sure you will know quite a few of my friends over there. Coig, McGinty, Doug Sampson, etc etc |
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13 Dec 16 - 08:29 AM (#3826194) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: DMcG Yes there is a welcome band of young professional musicians but not a new core of young floor singers and audience to maintain the grass roots scene for another generation. I am more optimistic than that. Floor singers et al are just one way folk music music is presented. It happens to be the format most of us grew up with, but it is arguably not the most natural format. Certainly you would not have found something as formalised as that when Hammond and Co were collecting. Currently the big festivals are very popular. At the other extreme I happen to have just spent an hour singing dandling songs to my infant grandson. Different formats for different situations, that's all. Add to that fashion plays a significant role. It may be all the clubs we know die out then in 25 years or so a new wave of small groups singing to each other arises again. That seems quite possible to me. Folk clubs and folk singing are related but far from synonyms. |
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13 Dec 16 - 08:41 AM (#3826198) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,DTM The torch for the new generation of folk singers (in Scotland anyway) is in good hands with the likes of Karine Polwart, Siobhan Miller, Robyn Stapleton, Claire Hastings, Ewan McLennan, and others, leading the way. |
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13 Dec 16 - 08:43 AM (#3826199) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: JMB Iain, I am familiar with those artists. I was at a Coig show last month and spoke with them afterwards. They're very nice people. |
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13 Dec 16 - 08:52 AM (#3826201) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,IainG JMB We usually stay with Darren and Rachel from Coig when we come over every second year from the UK, they are a great band and as you say nice people Where do you play? |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:20 AM (#3826208) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,padgett Yes I know Alice Baillie and Patrick Rose from KIT (Kelham Island Tavern) also James Haigh from out Rotherham way very talented young lad ~ there has been a meeting for a number of the upcoming youngsters at Halsway Manor fairly recently and I am advised a number of the young musicians have been encouraged to work together under the auspices of tutors ~ BBC young talent spotting I think Ray |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:29 AM (#3826210) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: JMB I'm based in the Annapolis Valley, Iain. I play traditional and modern Celtic folk-rock as well as Western. I write some of my own material. |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:45 AM (#3826215) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link We only have one young participant , who regularly attends when not away at university. Then there are a few who are less advanced in years than some of us who are growing old disgracefully ! . So all in all , the demise of the folk/ acoustic club is far from imminent IMO |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:47 AM (#3826216) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Firecat I'm still fairly young (33 next month). I was on the folk circuit from when I was a baby - got taken to my first festival at about four months old - until I turned 21, but just dip in and out now. |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:51 AM (#3826218) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Guest Guest DTM - this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. You list Karine Polwart in your list of 'new generation' folkies. Now, by no means is Karine old - she's maybe in her early forties - but I'd guess that she's been a professional musician for about 20 years now - and a very successful one at that. Yet still she gets referred to as if she's some sort of newcomer! It just seems like, for whatever reasons, it takes a very, very, very long time for 'young' musicians to lose that tag in the trad/folk scene. |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:52 AM (#3826219) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: punkfolkrocker There are too many aged vested interests not to have youth conscripted into the folk establishment institutions... Fortunately, bright enthusiastic young singers and musicians actually dig that crazy folk music and often volunteer for long term service without any parental coercion or bribery... 😜 Unfortunately, once a year or so, one of 'em comes here seeking encouragement and advice and gets beaten down by the grim old malcontents and their rigid orthodoxies.. ..and I am thinking of one specific instance a few years ago when a young guy working in France came here full of positivity, only to have the stuffing knocked out of him for daring to fuse elements of DJ culture dance music with precious old irish songs.. That left a bitter taste... they made it certain he'd never come back here again... 😞 |
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13 Dec 16 - 09:57 AM (#3826224) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: punkfolkrocker Btw.. I'll be 60 in 2 years... 😎 |
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13 Dec 16 - 10:12 AM (#3826231) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,IainG JMB What a lovely place to live, we visited the Royal historical gardens back in June this year, stayed in Digby for a few days too Might catch up with you next time we visit |
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13 Dec 16 - 12:12 PM (#3826269) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,kenny Just received a copy of the latest double-CD from the 2016 students at "The School Of Excellence In Traditional Music" based in Plockton on the West coast of Scotland. 19 musicians, all still at secondary school, producing songs and music of a very high quality, and Plockton has been doing this every year since 2000. They would very probably not categorise themselves as "folkies" of any sort, but that's just a label, as far as I'm concerned. Young people playing traditional music are out there, certainly in Scotland. The sad part is that they have no incentive to go to "Folk Clubs", and I for one don't blame them [ but that's another discussion entirely ]. Kenny PS - another CD received recently from Ireland, "The Cavan Bucks" - astonishingly mature music for 3 musicians still all in their teens. |
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13 Dec 16 - 07:54 PM (#3826356) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,big al whittle i think maybe we need to get used to the idea. it was an artistic movement like surrealism, or trad jazz. when another generation looks at the old songs and maybe writes their own - they will take something different from them than we did. They will be standing in another place , another time. theres an inevitability about it. we may like the idea of a tradition - but we really we have no control of what will happen in the future and what they will think of our generation and what they will choose to pick up from us. |
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14 Dec 16 - 09:20 AM (#3826424) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,DTM To 'Guest' re. Karine Polwart. I am well aware that Karine has been on the scene for some time and I must admit I did add her name with some trepidation that I may be called up on this fact, and fair dos. My reason for including her is that, IMO, she has done wonders bringing her generation and younger into (ahem)'folk music'. I'm sure she will be doing her stuff long after I'm pushing up the daisies. Relative to sexagenarians like myself & older, she affectionately can be viewed on as the 'new' generation. |
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14 Dec 16 - 09:21 AM (#3826425) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST I totally agree with pfr on this. There are too many people with very narrow views of folk music. This narrowness tends to discourage young people who can add some modern elements to folk. Nothing in music, folk or otherwise, is meant to be fossilized and locked into the past. Give the young musicians a chance to add their voices to the history of folk music. |
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14 Dec 16 - 09:43 AM (#3826433) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: selby Every so often a thread like this appears. look around at festivals and elsewhere they are out and about having a great time. |
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14 Dec 16 - 10:58 AM (#3826445) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: JMB That sounds like a great idea Iain. |
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15 Dec 16 - 02:39 AM (#3826594) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST Granny's Attic / BBC Radio 2 Young Folk Award Nominees 2014 ... www.grannysattic.org.ukCached Granny's Attic – Cohen Braithwaite-Kilcoyne (Melodeon, Concertina, Vocals), George Sansome (Guitar, Vocals) and Lewis Wood (Fiddle, Mandolin, Vocals) Booked at Warwick ff (I saw them there) last year Powerful singers and instrumentalists Ray |
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15 Dec 16 - 04:20 AM (#3826603) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Jim Carroll People really could take a lesson from what has happened in Ireland over the last decade. Thirty odd years ago I would have said without hesitation that music here had little chance of a future. Thanks to the dedication of a handful of people who went about building a foundation on which the music could survive and develop, Irish instrumental music has been guaranteed a future for generations to come. The music has now been taken up (not over), by young players coming to it for the first time and quickly learning to play to a high a standard as I have ever heard, and they appear to be playing for the love of it rather than for the cudos. THIS YOUNG PIPER is an example of what is happening today - the granndson of piper, Tom McCarthy, now nearly twenty years dead, who passed his love of music on to his children, who in turn passed it on to their children. As friends of Tom Senior, we wondered what would happen to the Mccarthy's music - we no longer do - it is in safe hands. It was achieved basically by realising what the music was, how important it is and building a foundation on that realisation rather than artificially forcing it into other forms and genres The youngsters can do whatever they want with it now, and are - but they have a touchstone in the forms of The Irish Traditional Music Archive and a base to point to and return to, should they wish - The Willie Clancy Summer School (which will be holding its 43 annual school next July) and the other gatherings, get togethers and schools which have mushroomed over the years. Deciding what the music is without faffing around crying "I don't know what "folk" means, seems to have done the trick. Song still has some way to go here, but there are signs that this is BEGINNING TO HAPPEN TOO . The overall driving force is not the celbrité or the chance to earn a living, but the music itself I have little doubt that I'll shuffle off this mortal coil listening to good traditional music and song - I doubt if I would be able to say that if I still lived back home in Britain MacColl once said that traditional music can survive anything but falling into the hands of people who don't like or understand it - sometimes I think that's exactly what has happened to it in Britain. Jim Carroll |
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15 Dec 16 - 05:36 AM (#3826608) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Dave Sheffield I speak only of what I know - but there are dozens of young people playing folk music and dancing and singing wherever I go - festivals all over, and Sheffield area. This is akin to the "death of folk clubs - which simply ignored the mass of non-folk club music and proposed folk music was dying. I was there at the start of the sixties and went through the "heyday" of the 60's folk music boom. There are more top class fiddlers, melodeon players and loads of other instrument players in the pubs of Sheffield than there were in England. Last night I listened to a quintet consisting of french horn, cello, two fiddles and a flute, all under 25. You really need get out more. |
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15 Dec 16 - 06:08 AM (#3826615) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Guest To GuestDTM re: Karine P. Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning for including her in your list of youngsters - it's appreciated. I understand where you're coming from. As I said above in relation to Kris Drever too, it's all relative - there are probably people in their nineties and above who view sexagenarians such as yourself as the 'new' generation!!! |
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15 Dec 16 - 06:23 AM (#3826618) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Jim Carroll ""death of folk clubs" I suggest you go count the number of folk clubs that have disappeared over the decades. I lived in a London where you could find a folk club operating within reasonable travelling distance every night of the week (not necessarily to my taste) My last few visits to Britain have proved somewhat of a folk disaster - the few we found were dominated by poor to indifferent singing, ego-tripping joiners inners on solo performances, crib sheets (and their counterparts - mobile phones) and hardly any identifiable folk songs. That was the way it was heading nearly twenty years ago when we left. If you want to get anywhere in a car, you decide which route to take - the same applies to folk music. Jim Carroll |
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15 Dec 16 - 08:16 AM (#3826630) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Peter Younger participants seem to have less interest in going to "the club" every week which means that they are less visible to the older participants. Where I do see young (under 30) activity the numbers are a lot lower than in the glory days of the 60s revival. In particular the suburban clubs, where they still survive, are definitely the preserve of the SAGA generation. 40 years ago there would have been dozens of 6th formers and students in each. |
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15 Dec 16 - 08:37 AM (#3826636) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Jack Campin Folk clubs were probably never a particularly great idea in the first place. Did they ever exist in Ireland? And did the Irish miss out on anything? My last few visits to Britain have proved somewhat of a folk disaster You simply couldn't be bothered looking. As "selby" and the guy from Sheffield said, there are lots of young performers out there and they're easy enough to find if you look in the right places. Which folk clubs are not. |
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15 Dec 16 - 09:08 AM (#3826644) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Rob Naylor Dave, Sheffield: I speak only of what I know - but there are dozens of young people playing folk music and dancing and singing wherever I go - festivals all over, and Sheffield area. This is akin to the "death of folk clubs - which simply ignored the mass of non-folk club music and proposed folk music was dying. Agree entirely....the young people are out there, playing for the love of the music....just mostly not at "traditional folk clubs" (unless, as in the case of a few, as booked guests). Jim Carroll: I suggest you go count the number of folk clubs that have disappeared over the decades.......My last few visits to Britain have proved somewhat of a folk disaster - the few we found were dominated by poor to indifferent singing, ego-tripping joiners inners on solo performances, crib sheets (and their counterparts - mobile phones) and hardly any identifiable folk songs. I can agree that this may be the case in some (possibly a lot of) areas of the UK (as I don't try and seek out folk clubs wherever I go, so can't speak for most of the country). There are some areas (eg Sussex/ Kent) where clubs are healthy, with a good standard of singing and musicianship. Yes, a lot of folk clubs have disappeared, and others are attended by an older and older demographic, but as I said way up-thread, young people are playing and singing folk songs and tunes at other venues: open mics, house-gatherings or just getting together with some mates of a similar age. I'm going to a "house gathering" on Saturday where I'll be the oldest there by far. Most will be in their 20s-30s and although the music won't be exclusively folk, it'll make up a fair percentage. |
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15 Dec 16 - 09:11 AM (#3826645) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Rob Naylor Er, sorry....Please read for "Jim Carroll" above "Jack Campin". Apologies to both for the mistake. |
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15 Dec 16 - 09:12 AM (#3826647) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Rob Naylor No, I was correct the first time....please read "Jim Carroll" for "Jim Carroll". Havin' a bad day! :-) |
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15 Dec 16 - 01:37 PM (#3826707) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,Dave Sheffield Jim, I do not miss the awful places that many folk clubs have become. And like you it was relatively easy to see the direction that they were travelling at that time. \I meant that people were saying folk music would not exist as folk clubs died. Yet OUTSIDE folk clubs there are dozens of young people playing for pleasure. |
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15 Dec 16 - 01:45 PM (#3826709) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST thousands, not dozens |
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15 Dec 16 - 01:58 PM (#3826710) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Jim Carroll "I meant that people were saying folk music would not exist as folk clubs died." Sorry Dave I do believe that the Clubs were fairly ideal as venues - can't think of another set-up that would give us all a chance to have a go, keeping the music at grassroots level. Private sessions never really work for me - too exclusive The ones I was involved in included local research and workshops I'm desperately trying to get the latter idea off the ground for the number of young people who have expressed an interest but have nowhere to go The bars just don't fit the bill Jim Carroll |
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15 Dec 16 - 02:26 PM (#3826717) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Tattie Bogle In agreement with Kenny and others who have spoken in support of the Scottish Folk scene as it is now. We have a great wealth of younger singers, songwriters and musicians, and whatever you think about University degrees in Trad Music, this is at least due in part to that development. True, you won't see so many of them regularly attending folk clubs: they might come if their pals are on, and I do think that folk club organisers go a long way to ensure that there is a wide scatter of ages among artistes booked. That's not to say that I like absolutely everything that they do: funky, choppy rhythms on well-loved songs are definitely not for me (and it's not just the yoingsters who seem compelled to do this!) or writing a new tune for a song that already has an unmatchable tune! And festivals here do give more than cognisance to the youth element: some fabulous tunes at the recent Scots Fiddle Festival from a group of musicians who are all still at school. |
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15 Dec 16 - 03:19 PM (#3826731) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: Jack Campin writing a new tune for a song that already has an unmatchable tune! That's more a middle-aged thing, isn't it? People like Kate Rusby and Eddi Reader? A fad whose time has passed? |
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19 Dec 16 - 05:31 AM (#3827347) Subject: RE: Young Folkies - Where are you? From: GUEST,ST "I speak only of what I know - but there are dozens of young people playing folk music and dancing and singing wherever I go - festivals all over, and Sheffield area (From: GUEST,Dave Sheffield Date: 15 Dec 16 - 05:36 AM )" As an update: I counted 12 "young singers" at the regular, local, unaccompanied singaround last night. That number is just of those who lead songs and doesn't include their friends who joined in with choruses etc, nor does it include the Jess & Richard Arrowsmith/James Fagan generation and their friends who, for the purposes of this thread, some may consider no longer "young" singers. Us OAPs were outnumbered but the fact that singers ranged from late teens to at least late 60s makes it an even healthier time than the early revival of the 1960s etc when there was seldom such a mix of generations present. (Plus it was a great session: all the singing was excellent.) Perhaps the folk legacy is secure after all. |