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28 Jan 18 - 08:03 PM (#3902520) Subject: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Hey, there! I've been browsing the forum for some time, but this is my first posting, so I apologize if this has been discussed before. My Ballad group, The Men o' War Balladeers, just released our first studio album, on which we recorded Stan Rogers' "Barrett's Privateers". Most of you probably know it. The Refrain: "God Damn them all! I was told we'd cruise the sea for American gold, we'd fire no guns..." My question: how should I note this as I'm sending the album to radio programs (In this case, Fiona Ritchie's Thistle and Shamrock)? We're in upstate New York, USA, but I'll also probably be sending to a few Canadian stations too. Many thanks, Kristoffer |
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28 Jan 18 - 08:45 PM (#3902529) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: meself If no one comes up with a better idea, I would suggest just adding a note to Fiona Ritchie reminding her that there is a "Goddamn" in the chorus. No doubt she is familiar with the song. |
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29 Jan 18 - 10:11 AM (#3902568) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST .... and the problem is ? |
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29 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM (#3902570) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Rapparee Don't worry about it. It's not like you're doing "Bastard King of England" or "The Good Ship Venus." |
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29 Jan 18 - 11:33 AM (#3902589) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Morris-ey This must be an USA issue. How would God damn them all be an issue when every rap song has words such as nigger and fuck in almost every verse? |
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29 Jan 18 - 11:35 AM (#3902590) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Backwoodsman Much ado about nothing. |
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29 Jan 18 - 11:55 AM (#3902602) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: meself Actually - there hasn't been an awful lot of ado, has there? |
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29 Jan 18 - 12:08 PM (#3902603) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Morris-ey At least 5 people now know of the Balladeers new CD.... |
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29 Jan 18 - 12:31 PM (#3902609) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: robomatic I think a note with the full chorus should be appended. 'Damn' has very little negative import, but put the 'G' word in front of it and there will be people who perhaps didn't know they were sensitive who feel a couple nerve cells prick up (sorry about that word 'prick'). When I read the thread title I had no idea what you meant by 'explicit' but I think your attention to this does you credit. |
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29 Jan 18 - 01:17 PM (#3902630) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Bat Goddess No folk show that I know of ever had any concerns about playing Stan's recording of his song back in the 1980s. "God damn" was never an issue. But do you have permission to have recorded it and have you obtained a license? That would be the more concerning issue -- the song is under copyright. Linn |
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29 Jan 18 - 01:28 PM (#3902632) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Jeri Religious folks can object to "God damn", especially if they've never heard the song before and don't know it's coming. People who know the song are aware of when to stick their fingers in their ears. With regards to Linn's mention of copyright, I don't think you need a license or permission, but you have to credit the song and pay royalties. Rogers' songs are fiercely protected by family and lawyers. But as you're professionals, you probably know all this, and it's not what you asked about. (Nobody has ever accused folks at Mudcat of trying to stick to the subject :) |
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29 Jan 18 - 02:09 PM (#3902648) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Bat Goddess You need permission to record a copyrighted song. "Is it legal to record a cover of someone else’s song? When you record a cover version of someone else's song, you need to get a mechanical license authorizing you to reproduce their composition. A “mechanical license” is the industry name for an agreement that gives you permission from a songwriter or publisher to record a song that you do not own the songwriting copyright for. The main situation in which a mechanical license would be necessary is if you want to write a cover song. But that’s not the only situation where you could need a mechanical license." - From https://www.newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/it_legal_record_cover_someone_else%E2%80%99s_song Linn |
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29 Jan 18 - 03:17 PM (#3902661) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Bat Goddess Also Guidelines for the Use of Music Under Copyright There's plenty of information out there. You need permission to use copyrighted material for anything except personal use. Especially if it's on a CD for intended airplay. Most radio stations won't touch it otherwise. Linn |
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29 Jan 18 - 03:17 PM (#3902662) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: michaelr Permission is not required for a song that's been recorded before. But a mechanical license is. |
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29 Jan 18 - 03:33 PM (#3902666) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: meself I imagine the Original Poster, every time he sees that there's a new post, hoping he'll get an answer to his question ... ! |
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29 Jan 18 - 04:15 PM (#3902675) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Bat Goddess Fiona Ritchie, I'm sure, is very familiar with the song and the chorus lyrics, so I doubt they'd need to be pointed out to her. As I pointed out earlier, I've heard Stan Rogers' recording of the song on radio folk shows over the past, what? 35 years? I don't know of a instance where the exclamation was ever an issue. More of an issue here is that it's a copyrighted song, not a traditional public domain song. Linn |
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29 Jan 18 - 07:53 PM (#3902713) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Hi, Again, all! Thanks for all the responses! I'll try to address all the points brought up, so it's gonna be a long post. A) As was suggested, I'll enclose the chorus lyrics in my letter when I send it. I'm a non-fundamentalist religious person, but to tell the truth, I hadn't even considered "God Damn them all" offensive until just before we went on for a radio interview, and the kind host asked if there were any she shouldn't play off the CD for profanity reasons. Hence my original query. Thanks for all the input! B) I did purchase mechanical licenses. Being an annoying, over-researching homeschooler, I looked into copyright in great detail. My takeaway, as applies to the USA: To distribute a cover song, you need to secure a mechanical license, but, if the copyright owner has published the song beforehand, you don't need specific permission, AS LONG as you have a license that pays the composer/publisher the current royalty rate of 9.2 cents per manufactured copy per song (if your recording is under 5 minutes, rated per-minute if longer) This applies even if you're giving away your recordings. In addition, I'd requested permission from Ariel (Stan's widow), but never heard back. Because Stan' songs were copyrighted in Canada, some third party Licensing companies believe they require custom licensing and try to put extra on their fee, but I was able to find one that did standard rate. C) Please don't think I posted this to as free advertising for our album. I specifically didn't name the album or put in hyperlinks so as not to. Many thanks! Kristoffer |
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29 Jan 18 - 07:55 PM (#3902716) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST From meself: "I imagine the Original Poster, every time he sees that there's a new post, hoping he'll get an answer to his question ... !" :-) :-) Actually, I was at work all day, so I saw all of them at once when I got home. Lots to read through! Kristoffer |
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30 Jan 18 - 12:10 AM (#3902749) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Joe Offer And Kristoffer, letting us know about recordings you've made is part of the deal at Mudcat. Please give us information about the CD and how to get it. If it's folk, we want to know about it. Over-marketing is another matter, but giving us the facts about a new recording is helpful. Ya know, "Explicit Lyrics" doesn't quite work. It makes me think about sex, and then the contents are a big disappointment. How about "naughty words alert"? -Joe Offer, Music Editor, The Mudcat Cafe- |
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30 Jan 18 - 09:22 AM (#3902830) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Severn What I always go by is context. If someone actually wishing that something or someone would indeed be condemned to Hell, then it's fine. People in battle or on sinking ships tend to feel that way a lot. If you just sling the word around just to hear yourself cuss and really wish somebody's fate to end up shoott, it's not. I was a guest co-host on a Folk show with a long time radio person and when she played a version of "Jack Hall The Chimney Sweep", I mentioned that I sing a version of "Sam Hall" that was a combination the best verses of all the meanest versions I've heard of what I consider the greatest "venting" song of all time, she askedme to sing it, even though I was just a substitute DJ. After I did, she said what I sang was perfectly alright to sing on a community station's airwaves. It was also fine with the regular host, who was streaming it from where she was visiting. The chorus should be OK for the listening public and not just for "privateers only", but always check with the host for their preferences. |
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30 Jan 18 - 09:44 AM (#3902832) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Thanks, Severn! I feel much the same way about it: I'd be cursing too, if "The main tuck carried off both me legs" Joe Offer - Thanks for the clarification. If you wish to give a listen, the album is Rise with the Moon, available here, on CD Baby. We actually have 4 of Stan's songs on it, and a bunch of Traditional ones as well. Our Website and Facebook Page are linked below. Best, Kristoffer Ross, The Men o' War Balladeers Our website is https://themenowarballadeers.wordpress.com/. https://www.facebook.com/themenowarballadeers/ |
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30 Jan 18 - 10:10 AM (#3902836) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: robomatic As someone who has sung this song on the trail to scare away bears and been privileged to join the chorus sung by a Canadian band on an actual Halifax Pier I've enjoyed the hell out of this thread (please pardon the 'H' word)! |
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30 Jan 18 - 02:45 PM (#3902876) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Robomatic, "I enjoyed the hell out of myself playing on this album, as I do most of the time that I work out with Stan and Garnet..." -David Alan Eadie, Bass, liner notes in "Between the Breaks...Live!" Best wishes, Kristoffer |
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30 Jan 18 - 06:05 PM (#3902901) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,DonMeixner Kristoffer, First of all, where in Upstate New York. There are those that view Beacon or Croton-on-Harmon to be upstate. I am between Syracuse and Auburn. Anytime I have felt it necessary to censor Barrett's Privateers I have just sung "Ah, Damn them all." Don Meixner |
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30 Jan 18 - 06:07 PM (#3902902) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,DonMeixner Ah!Found it. Yes, you are in upstate NY. D |
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30 Jan 18 - 09:39 PM (#3902943) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Yes, Don, quite upstate! (Cambridge, NY, about 200mi from NYC). We're just west of VT. New York seems way too big, sometimes - Eire (Rep. of Ireland, not a typo of Erie) is a nice, manageable size for me. Best, Kristoffer |
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31 Jan 18 - 03:38 AM (#3902967) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Jack Campin The warning listeners really need about that song is how much of their life they're not going to get back. It's far too goddamn long and literal. |
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31 Jan 18 - 08:00 AM (#3903010) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Jack Campin: Well, our recording is 4m 11s, and it's actually one of the shorter songs on the album :-) Arthur MacBride, anyone? Kristoffer |
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01 Feb 18 - 10:38 PM (#3903343) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: DebC You should put a sticker on the front of the package that says FCC Language warning with the track #. All it takes is one complaint from a "concerned listener" to the FCC complaint line and that radio station could be fined to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. There are a still a few folk DJs who won't play any songs that might have the seven words. Even so, on my last solo recording, I did have a song that had damn and hell and I put a sticker on the front anyway. There has certainly ben a relaxation of standards on certain words, but it is the courteous thing to do to warn the DJs and they appreciate it. Deb |
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02 Feb 18 - 03:08 AM (#3903357) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Dave the Gnome If you look at the words in context it is not using the phrase 'Goddamn or Goddamned'. It is a request for God to damn them all. A completely different kettle of fish and a fate that fundamentalists would happily wish on people who were not of their faith. You are over thinking and over worrying Kristoffer. It's like worrying that 'Anyone for coffee' contains an expletive :-) DtG |
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02 Feb 18 - 04:21 AM (#3903362) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Howard Jones From the other side of the pond, this all sounds extraordinary. The BBC's guidelines on strong language are mainly concerned with sexual words but include this: words or names associated with religion, such as Jesus Christ, may cause offence to some, but they are unlikely to cause widespread offence according to generally accepted standards. Again, we should still take care to avoid indiscriminate use. They go on to say that context of the use is a factor. I think it is very doubtful whether a British broadcaster would give this more than a moment's consideration. However we are a much less religious society. |
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02 Feb 18 - 04:29 AM (#3903365) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Joe Offer Gee, with "explicit lyrics" in the thread title and 30 messages posted, I came here hoping to find something really juicy. Can't somebody write us a bawdy version of "Barrett's Privateers"? Abby Sale must have one, dontchathink? -Joe- |
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02 Feb 18 - 04:34 AM (#3903366) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST "God damn" is "explicit" ? In the country that gave the world rap music ? |
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02 Feb 18 - 06:40 AM (#3903389) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Phil Cooper Stan did a concert back in the Chicago suburbs about a year before he died at Fermilab, which had a folk concert series back then. He was on a bill with the Red Clay Ramblers. He closed his set with Barrett's Privateers. After the show someone in the audience, indeed, said they found as born again Christians that the phrase Goddamn them all was offensive. Stan thanked them for their honesty and said what he found offensive was the notion of a the whole universe bowing in homage to some grand pubba ruler. Then he walked off. |
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02 Feb 18 - 06:51 AM (#3903395) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,henryp Don't worry about it. It's a dramatic piece. It's the voice of the character, not the singer. |
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02 Feb 18 - 10:20 AM (#3903443) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: meself Stan was never known for his tact, was he? |
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02 Feb 18 - 11:53 AM (#3903463) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross Thanks you, All, particularly to DebC (quoted below)! This is exactly the answer I needed. Best, Kristoffer DebC Said: "You should put a sticker on the front of the package that says FCC Language warning with the track #. All it takes is one complaint from a "concerned listener" to the FCC complaint line and that radio station could be fined to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. There are a still a few folk DJs who won't play any songs that might have the seven words. Even so, on my last solo recording, I did have a song that had damn and hell and I put a sticker on the front anyway. There has certainly ben a relaxation of standards on certain words, but it is the courteous thing to do to warn the DJs and they appreciate it. Deb" |
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02 Feb 18 - 02:54 PM (#3903500) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: DebC Kristoffer Ross: you might subscribe to the FOLKDJ-L discussion list. This kind of information is always there and discussion of FCC language comes up every so often. The website is here Debra Cowan (DebC) |
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04 Oct 20 - 07:33 PM (#4074342) Subject: ADD: Banting's Imparted Years From: Joe Offer Can't say I know where to put this, but it was sung at the Getaway today and it piqued my interest. A Scientific Sea Shanty: Banting's Imparted Years https://trshow.info/watch/He7X5jGt8lY/a-scientific-sea-shanty-banting-s-Imparted-years-stan-rogers-parody-a-capella-science.html BANTING'S IMPARTED YEARS (Music: Barrett's Privateers by Stan Rogers) Oh the year was nineteen, ten and eight And to think I take up sugar now At eleven years old my fate was rung By the death o' me islets of Langerhans REFRAIN Nobel them all! I was lost to cruel disease When a miracle cure saved mother her son Dried her tears Now I'm a croakin' man but I'll nevermore fear The last of Banting's imparted years Young Frederick Banting cried aloud And to think I take up sugar now Through shelling and fire he scorned his wounds Til the fallen in battle be dressed and bound REFRAIN Diabetes then was a sickening plight And to think I take up sugar now We'd down the least that a man could scoff Til the famine or saccharide capped us off REFRAIN The Simcoe doc was a knife by trade And to think I take up sugar now When the practice failed he set his jaw To the treatment of glycosuria REFRAIN The pancreas' form had long been known And to think I take up sugar now Islets that curb sugar low or high And digestive fluid from the acini REFRAIN He worked as long I withered and waned And to think I take up sugar now Sweating with Best in animal trials To wring an elixir from the tiny isles REFRAIN Then at length on death's cold mantle I lay And to think I take up sugar now The extract was drawn and the hype went in In the first e'er treatment of insulin REFRAIN My vigour returned and in truth I thrived And to think I take up sugar now Banting & co shared a Nobel prize And the work saved north'ard of a million lives REFRAIN So here I lay in my twenty-eighth year And to think I take up sugar now The pneumonia's fast in both me lungs But I want no islets of Langerhans REFRAIN |
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04 Oct 20 - 11:27 PM (#4074350) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GerryM The whole chorus needs rewriting. Offensive to the religious, to Americans, to the disabled ("a broken man", indeed!), and I'm sure "privateer" is an insult. Let's try this: Gosh darn them all! I was told We'd cruise the seas for someone else's gold. We'd fire no guns, shed no tears. Now I'm bilateral BK on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's privately commissioned warriors. |
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05 Oct 20 - 02:26 AM (#4074357) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Sandra in Sydney banting? definition - obsolete - slimming by avoiding eating sugar, starch, and fat I knew it was named after the 19th century bloke who publicised his success at losing weight, but I didn't know about his relative, the discoverer of insulin. I learn so much on Mudcat sandra |
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06 Oct 20 - 04:51 AM (#4074466) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Daniel Kelly It is a travesty that this song doesn't have a saucy parody as promised in the thread title. I humbly offer my slightly saucy parody: Jarrett's Private Tears Oh the night was getting getting very late, How I wish I was with Cheryl now, When a phonecall came from my mate Stan, He said come to town I’ll make you a man. Gosh darn them all, I was told, we’d would cruise the streets, for a maid to hold, sire no sons, drink some beers, now I’m a broke young man on the Sydney pier, for a lass I cry my private tears. Oh, Stan he said that he knew the town, HOW I WISH I WAS.. and ten great clubs where the ladies went in which our money would be well spent (chorus) Well Stacey she was a lovely sight, HOW I WISH I WAS . . . She'd a bottle of port and her dress half on and said would I like all my worries gone, (chorus) I said yes please and she came real close, HOW I WISH I WAS.. Her hand reached down into my pants, She took my phone and ran I had no chance (chorus) At 11:05 we moved again, HOW I WISH I WAS... When a fit young Yankee hove in sight, We asked if she could spare a light. (chorus) The Yankee said I don’t smoke your fools, HOW I WISH I WAS... Lung cancer’s an awful way to go, Would she like a drink? She said hell no! (chorus) Then I spied a lass two tables away, HOW I WISH I WAS . . . I walked over to have chat, Turned out she was a bloke named Pat. (chorus) The Antelope pub was the last we tried, HOW I WISH I WAS . . . I must have smashed half a dozen kegs, And I can’t stand straight on my own two legs (chorus) So I can’t get laid in my 33rd year, HOW I WISH I WAS . . . It's been 6 hours since my mate Stan’s call And I haven’t been close to a woman at all. |
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24 Feb 23 - 09:32 PM (#4166097) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST I’ve heard “curse them all” in place of the other- I like it! |
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25 Feb 23 - 04:31 AM (#4166101) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: SPB-Cooperator Gerry, don't you think the line 'fire no guns' might be offensive to the NRA and republican gun nuts? Seems a it overtly political to me! |
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25 Feb 23 - 05:58 AM (#4166103) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GerryM You're absolutely right, SPB! How about we replace "We'd fire no guns" with "We'd have some fun"? |
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25 Feb 23 - 05:42 PM (#4166145) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: Joe_F When I was little (1940s) radio was squeaky clean. Singing "God damn" would have been scandalous. I remember reading in a newspaper that some authority (the FCC?) had decreed that henceforth the word "diaper" might be used on the radio. The reporter ventured to guess that only dry humor would be acceptable. |
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26 Feb 23 - 05:21 PM (#4166221) Subject: RE: Barrett's Privateers- Explicit Lyrics? From: GUEST,Muggie Sha' I remember the much-missed Scottish singer/entertainer Danny Kyle telling a story about an African-American singer being warned about what he was singing on the BBC at some time in the past. The opening line of his first song was "Well, if you see Kay"....... |