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27 Apr 18 - 12:46 PM (#3920428) Subject: BS: The EU helps to lead the way... From: Steve Shaw ...in banning all neonicotinoid insecticides after 2018. They've been leading suspects for many years as a major cause of colony collapse in bees and are toxic to all insects that feed on plants, including those that take nectar. These insecticides are systemic, in other words they get inside the plant to do their dirty poisoning work rather than killing by simple contact. What I find scandalous is how difficult it is to find out from labels which pesticides are contained in garden sprays. The names are there in tiny print, hidden away at the bottom of a load of verbiage. Anyway, if you see any of the following names on the label you are buying neonicotinoid: acetamiprid, clothianidin, imidacloprid, nitenpyram, nithiazine, thiacloprid and thiamethoxam. Imadacloprid is the most widely-used insecticide in the world and is one of the worst offenders. |
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27 Apr 18 - 01:29 PM (#3920438) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: McGrath of Harlow But we can expect, that come Brexit, all that stuff will be back again in our gardens, and on the stuff we buy, except maybe when it’s imported from the EU. |
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27 Apr 18 - 01:43 PM (#3920445) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: punkfolkrocker There was an expert being interviewed on BBC news this morning about Japanese knotweed... His expert advice was don't try to kill it with off the shelf weedkillers, you need to call in an expert who has special expert access to top secret military grade weedkillers...!!! [I might have exaggerated a teeny bit for dramatic effect...] |
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27 Apr 18 - 01:54 PM (#3920451) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains Novichok perhaps??????????. They seek it here, They seek it there! |
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27 Apr 18 - 03:16 PM (#3920479) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Steve Shaw As a matter of fact, neonicotinoids are nerve agents. |
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27 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM (#3920489) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: David Carter (UK) No doubt this stuff will be in our children's breakfast cereals if we are forced into a trade deal with Trump's USA. |
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27 Apr 18 - 03:26 PM (#3920492) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Steve Shaw Sadly, I think you'll find it already is. |
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27 Apr 18 - 05:10 PM (#3920507) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Steve Shaw One the most popular garden pesticides that you can buy everywhere, Rose Clear Ultra, contains the neonicotinoid acetamiprid. As an added bonus it contains a vicious systemic fungicide which could be harmful to birds (and you). Your roses will look beautiful. They"ll probably look a lot less sullied by bees than they should too. Bug Clear Ultra also contains acetamiprid. |
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28 Apr 18 - 10:58 AM (#3920659) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains Rachel Carson wrote "Silent Spring" in 1962. It is an environmental science book and it documented the adverse effects on the environment of the indiscriminate use of pesticides. We have been documenting adverse effects for over 50 years now but legislation controlling both their use and outright banning is lagging way behind. Syngenta HQ Sitzerland Bayer HQ Germany Dow and Dupont HQ US BASF HQ Germany Monsanto HQ UD Between them they account for 76% of pesticide sales and further mergers are planned. Over time the Controls in the EU are becoming ever more stringent for any kind of spraying regime. " an objective of theEU by 2020. The use of plant protection products does not have any harmful effects on human health or unacceptable influence on the environment, and such products are used sustainably." I do not think I will hold my breath on that objective being reached.t |
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28 Apr 18 - 04:08 PM (#3920742) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Raedwulf Actually, Steve & Kevin, you are both mostly wrong. :) If you read only the BBC reportage properly... Not all neonic's are being banned. There are neonic's that are NOT harmful to bees, and those are not going to be banned. So it's not "all neonics". And you can reasonably expect them not to be back on the, er, menu. It seems that the UK changing its stance to "in favour of a ban" changed other states' minds, so maybe the bleedin' Tories & Eurohaters won't backtrack after Leave... We can but hope! |
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28 Apr 18 - 04:19 PM (#3920744) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains Even when banned, derogation is sought for certain chemicals. https://www.pan-europe.info/press-releases/2016/09/food-authority-efsa-gives-extra-swing-pesticide-treadmill |
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28 Apr 18 - 04:53 PM (#3920749) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Steve Shaw Well I didn't know about the exemption for thiacloprid and don't understand it, but that doesn't mean that we're "mostly wrong." As I understand it, almost all neonics are banned for field use, being allowed in greenhouses only (a ludicrous and pusillanimous exemption), and thiacloprid will be allowed on foliage only (ditto). Reminds me of Shirley Williams banning grammar schools, except for a few, and banning foxhunting, except for dragging smelly carcasses that the dogs can still smell, and banning dogs from Summerleaze Beach in Bude in the summer...unless they're on leads...everybody knows that no dog on a lead ever shits... |
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28 Apr 18 - 06:49 PM (#3920760) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Senoufou Shirley Williams presented us with our GCE certificates at our grammar school many many years ago. |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:16 AM (#3920832) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains Bracken control is an example of the difficulty of deriving the right approach when it comes to chemical sprays. Bracken Encroachment is a problem and where a tightly controlled gazing regime cannot be used, or the ground is too steep for machinery, spraying is the only tool left (aerial spraying was banned nearly 10 years ago). The weed is carcinogenic to ruminants and harbours ticks and research suggests it may poison water courses(as do the sprays used for control) Finding a solution to this problem that satisfies all is a challenge. Areas of bracken on a farm are subtracted from the area eligible for farm payments under CAP. Having first battled bracken in the late 70's I have a slight appreciation of all sides of the argument. http://www.dwi.gov.uk/research/completed-research/reports/DWI70-2-237.pdf http://www.brackencontrol.co.uk/ https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/farmers-weapons-of-mass-destruction-carry-cancer-fears-1.3148492 |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:24 AM (#3920836) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Senoufou 'Aphalari itadori' is a type of aphid from Japan which feeds on the sap of Japanese knotweed and controls it in its native environment. I believe scientists here in UK are releasing some of these creatures to keep the monster under control. It will apparently have no effect on our native flora. (Let's hope not!) This is a better solution than chemical warfare. |
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29 Apr 18 - 04:42 AM (#3920842) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Mr Red nicotine is an immuno-suppressant. veroa mite is arguably a bigger cause of problems for honey bees (eg colony collapse) but every little helps. I asked a member of the Wiltshire Bee Ass. and he was of the opinion that the best defence (for such) was to breed it out of them. But such change always comes with changes. And you don't know until you know. The problem with nicotinoids is they are not discriminating. They are insecticides, that is their purpose. Clue is in the name. There are many pollinator insects, and all are prey to insecticides. In fact all other pollinators outnumber honey bees. And FWIW a GM crop that expresses chemicals toxic to pests (eg neonics) expresses it to us. Secondary vape anyone? |
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29 Apr 18 - 05:04 AM (#3920844) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains "I believe scientists here in UK are releasing some of these creatures" The previous history of releases around the world has not been a happy one. From mink to rhododendron the local flora and fauna has taken a severe kicking. I hope the homework has been thorough! As the saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In west Cork the council has been very active spraying roadside patches of Japanese Knotweed. Little notices are erected at each location. Whatever they are using for a herbicide seems lethal. The ground around is bare. 400+ roadside sites have been identified. |
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29 Apr 18 - 11:26 AM (#3920916) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Raedwulf Interesting stuff, Iain, thanks. Yes, Red, Varroa is a serious problem for honey bees (CCD - Colony Collapse Disorder - is a separate issue that might (or might not) be linked to Varroa). But the issue is not solely about honeybees. There are many other species of wild bee (solitary & bumbles) that are also badly affected by neonics, unfortunately, as are other insect pollinators (as you note). I did have a brief squint, but I can't find any obvious stats that give an indication of how much pollination is done by what... |
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30 Apr 18 - 09:33 AM (#3921123) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Donuel Its good news. I think France was first Hey Steve did you know that US Walmart may soon own 42% of all British Grocery Chains? |
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30 Apr 18 - 12:16 PM (#3921149) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Iains Be interesting to see how this one plays out! https://www.ecowatch.com/glyphosate-epa-public-comments-2563198754.html https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-politics-glyphosate/germany-moving-ahead-with-plans-to-restrict-weed-killer-glyphosat I wonder how long before the spotlight is on GM foods? |
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01 May 18 - 02:55 AM (#3921270) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: David Carter (UK) Donuel, that isn't how that story is being spun here, more about how a true British company is buying back ASDA from the evil yanks. Another bit of spin, which I don't believe is that there will be no store closures and job losses. Of course there will. These guys are being squeezed, Sainsbury have been trying to portray themselves as more up market than Tesco, which they aren't, and ASDA have been trying compete on price with ALDI and LIDL, and they will never win that one. I can see half the stores of the joint company closing. |
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01 May 18 - 07:20 AM (#3921315) Subject: RE: BS: The EU leads the way... From: Nigel Parsons Well I didn't know about the exemption for thiacloprid and don't understand it, but that doesn't mean that we're "mostly wrong." I fully agree. If there are exceptions to the neonicotinoids which are being banned, and you stated that they are banning all neonicotinoids then you are not 'mostly wrong'. You are wholly wrong. |