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04 Jun 18 - 08:57 PM (#3929204) Subject: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel US Sen.Merkley D from OR says immigrant children of people applying for asylum in the US are housed in an abandoned Texas Walmart with blacked out windows and are kept in kennel cages with no mattress and one mylar emergency blanket. There are about 1,000 children in that one facility. This is a new Trump/Sessions policy to exact punishment and discouragement for all immigrants who legally apply for status in the US. This is not an Obama policy as Trump claims. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/senator-jeff-merkley-barred-brownsville-texas-detention-center-refugee-children-2018-06-04/ I would not be surprised at a dismantling of the Statue of Liberty. |
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04 Jun 18 - 09:53 PM (#3929215) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: keberoxu The most miserable thing is that this surprises me not in the least. The more you read about the privatization of prisons/detention in the southwestern US, the less surprising it is. |
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05 Jun 18 - 03:23 AM (#3929243) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou That is wicked and cruel. |
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05 Jun 18 - 09:17 AM (#3929274) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel so true keb Senofou, btw I was thinking of you being most in tune with a very special African word. Ubuntu - the root of the word is a Zulu word. It's often described as - I am because of you or we can't be deeply human in a vacuum. And I've extended that to say that it is not only through people but through our interactions with all sentient beings on the planet that we feel our humanness. When you live in a village, naturally, you live close to nature. And the natural world around affects the way you are. It creates extended family. It creates shared community. And it creates a sense of belonging to something. And I think that a lot of the anxiety disorders and depression that we see in the world are actually an undiagnosed homesickness for a sense of belonging. And that sense of belonging means to each other - to what it means to be human, what it means to be a part of the natural world. And the goal is to be so present that that humanity - whatever we are met by in other people - a compassion to be with that arises. And that brings us to a deeper part of ourselves. (SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) RAZ: Boyd tells a story in his TED Talk that gets at this idea. And it's about a female baby elephant who passed through his family's game reserve named Elvis. And they called her Elvis because when she walked... (SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK) VARTY: She walked like she was doing the Elvis the Pelvis dance. She was born with very badly deformed back legs and pelvis. When I first saw her, I thought she would be dead in a matter of days. And yet, for the next five years, she returned in the winter months. And we would be so excited to be out in The Bush and to come across this unusual trek. And we would drop whatever we were doing, and we would follow. And then we would come around the corner. And there she would be with her herd. And then one day, we came across them at this small waterhole. It was sort of a hollow in the ground. And I watched as the matriarch drank. And then she turned in that beautiful slow motion of elephants. And she began to make her way up the steep bank. The rest of the herd turned - shoo - and began to follow. And I watched young Elvis begin to psych herself up for the hill. She had a full go at it. And halfway up, her legs gave way and she fell backwards. She attempted it a second time. And again, halfway up, she fell backwards. And on the third attempt, an amazing thing happened. Halfway up the bank, a young teenage elephant came in behind her. And he propped his trunk underneath her, and he began to shovel her up the bank. And it occurred to me that the rest of the herd was, in fact, looking after this young elephant. The next day, I watched again as the matriarch broke a branch. And she would put it in her mouth. And then she would break a second one and drop it on the ground. And a consensus developed between all of us who were guiding people in that area that that herd was, in fact, moving slower to accommodate that elephant. What, all of the sudden, the herd taught me caused me to expand my definition of Ubuntu. And I believe that in the cathedral of the wild, we get to see the most beautiful parts of ourselves reflected back at us. And it is not only through other people that we get to experience our humanity but through all the creatures that live on this planet. (SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) RAZ: Wow. It's such a beautiful story. I mean, just thinking about how the herd was - you know, was looking out for this elephant. I mean, it just makes you think that, you know - it's like this idea is intertwined in everything around us. VARTY: Yeah. And it doesn't always show up in, you know, ways that we would consider harmonious. You know, sometimes the Ubuntu in nature is the swiftness in which an injured animal is taken out of suffering by another animal. But there's an elegance to nature. And there is a way that everything is holding everything else. You know, my definition of harmony is - everything is uniquely itself. And by being uniquely itself - a part of a greater unfolding. And that is what all the ancient cultures knew - you know, this intricate connection. And when you live in a relationship with that, you start to know yourself as a part of. Within that is a kind of oneness and a felt oneness between all things. Its partly why we are on Mudcat. https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=481294968 |
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05 Jun 18 - 10:02 AM (#3929276) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Kennel is an emotive word; more so than cage. Perhaps visual proof is required before condemnation. However for a series of governments that have encouraged extraordinary rendition and regarded water boarding as merely enhanced interrogation, then perhaps children in kennels could be regarded as a logical progression. |
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05 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM (#3929296) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Trump policy is defiantly Anti Umbuntu. Iains you are coming off as anti umbuntu too. Is that really the true you? |
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05 Jun 18 - 02:02 PM (#3929312) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: keberoxu Must agree to disagree with you, Donuel, about Iain's philosophy. You won't see this my way, which is all right. The philosophy of the hardened cynic tends toward negation, so of course it is polarized and polarizing. The informed mistrust of cynicism can be off-putting emotionally. Now I don't read every post by Iains, because there are entire BS threads which I avoid, for my health. But just because Iains posts opinions with the rough-coated detachment of the hardened veteran, does that make the author of the posts hard to the core? I sincerely doubt that. And I don't think Iains comes off as anti-umbuntu just because he doesn't show us any warm squishy emotion. I will concede, however, that it is easy for the cynicism ingrained into Iain's dispatches to stir up defensiveness, especially in emotions. It has not been easy for me to keep my own feelings in check when I read a post from you, Iains, but the exercise is good for me mentally; and I am aware of someone beneath the surface of your dispatches who is capable of humanity. I will go on reading Iains' posts carefully and with interest. |
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05 Jun 18 - 02:13 PM (#3929316) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Donuel the ship of state sails on serenely at the behest of the bureaucrats. Nothing changes overnight as a new President takes office, the system has too much inertia. With this Presidency it could be argued that the reluctance of the administrative to bend to Trump's diktat verges on open rebellion. So you must ask yourself who is putting children in cages- the administrative, or the President? |
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05 Jun 18 - 02:30 PM (#3929323) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou But does no-one draw attention to their plight and demand that this treatment be exposed and stopped immediately? Innocent children being cruelly penned in like that is a wicked scandal. No matter who initiated it or who 'carries out their orders', most folk with an ounce of compassion would be up in arms about such abuse! |
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05 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM (#3929326) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: beardedbruce It may well still be going on ( Deep State functioning) but... "Some liberal activists and journalists scrambled Sunday and Monday to delete tweets and social media posts incorrectly linking the Trump administration to an old photo of detained illegal-immigrant minors being held in a cage. The 2014 shot was actually taken during the Obama administration. The photo went viral as liberals — perhaps spurred by unrelated reports that Homeland Security “lost track of” almost 1,500 illegal-immigrant minors after they were released — mistakenly assumed the shot was taken much more recently, and rushed to criticize Trump administration “cruelty.” SEE ALSO: Trump slams Dems for mistakenly blaming his administration for the photos of children in cages “This is happening right now, and the only debate that matters is how we force our government to get these kids back to their families as fast as humanly possible,” former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau said on Twitter. Mr. Favreau deleted the tweet, though not before it had been screen-captured. Other liberal activists and journalists, such as Shaun King of Black Lives Matter, Linda Sarsour of the Women’s March, and Muslim activist Qasim Rashid still had the fake news up Monday afternoon." |
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05 Jun 18 - 02:41 PM (#3929328) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: beardedbruce From the OP- clickey "In a statement, the press secretary for the Department of Homeland Security said: "DHS follows the laws passed by Congress and processes alien children safely and humanely. Contrary to any misinformation campaign, the safety of children is paramount for DHS. I encourage Senator Merkley to work with the administration to fix the underlying loopholes that act as a pull factor for illegal immigration and place these children at risk from smugglers and human traffickers. "At 2pm on a Friday, the Senator asked to visit a secure DHS facility over the weekend where children are present and we worked with him to provide him access. This presented obvious and serious privacy concerns – not to mention disrupting operations. He was able to visit the facility on Sunday."" |
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05 Jun 18 - 03:10 PM (#3929339) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Senoufou any publicity shining on the treatment of children in care is to be welcomed irregardless of the reason for their status. Too much, in too many places has impacted adversely the lives of these children. Institutional abuse goes way beyond incarceration in cages, as both ongoing and past enquiries clearly show. Those running any such institutions need to be policed constantly and thoroughly. The likes of jimmy saville and thomas hamilton are two that were caught. How many others remain in the shadows? |
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05 Jun 18 - 03:35 PM (#3929340) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou I couldn't agree more Iains. The adults are vulnerable enough, but the children are absolutely defenceless. Most disturbing. |
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05 Jun 18 - 03:57 PM (#3929347) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Keboroxu my introduction to your posts a year ago reminded me of someone in quiet stocking feet venturing forth with courage and uncertainty. Well you put on your loud shoes and are doing the walk of life with far more confidence. Your thunder is growing louder and that is a good natural harmless thing. No one gets hurt by thunder. No apologies needed for seeing differently. You nailed the cynicism thing. In fact you see more clearly. I do not see a hardened military veteran. I see a malevolent foreign agent who has an anti western agenda and is well versed in the sins of the west in which our Constitution can in fact address in the fullness of time. Until it is proved differently I will interpret the indirect shadows I see on the cave wall. Until someone googles the immigrant child Trump policy for themselves there is no response to the various "I think" posts. |
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05 Jun 18 - 06:26 PM (#3929359) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: McGrath of Harlow There would be no problem in opening up these kind of establishments to public scrutiny and proper inspection. In the absence of that it is reasonable to suspect the worst. Governments love to try to divert criticism to accusations about how previous administrations may have played a part in shaping things. That kind of stuff can only be of any significance after the existing injustice and maladministration has been rectified. Until that's been done, nothing else is relevant. |
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05 Jun 18 - 06:33 PM (#3929361) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Yep. The new policy against children is backfiring with his base so trump will distance and divert attention any way he can. |
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06 Jun 18 - 09:15 AM (#3929443) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel The UN has declared this Trump Sessions child policy a human rights violation. |
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06 Jun 18 - 09:25 AM (#3929445) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/world/americas/us-un-migrant-children-families.html As usual trump didn't want to think his cruelty through. The kids piled up faster than they could sort out or foster away. Parents be damned. Children are lost |
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06 Jun 18 - 10:01 AM (#3929449) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Perhaps visual proof is required before condemnation. MATTER OF DEGREE, I SUPPOSE "DHS follows the laws passed by Congress and processes alien children safely and humanely. " Hmmmmm!!! Jim Caarroll |
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06 Jun 18 - 11:34 AM (#3929464) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Warning mods the post by Jim Carrol at 10:01 IS A MALICIOUS VIRUS SITE accoeding to secure software |
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06 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM (#3929466) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Thanks for that Mod Jim Carroll |
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06 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM (#3929469) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains The photos do not look like a kennel to me.According to the text the cage walls are 18' high. The crowding and lack of exercise time is far from ideal. But were they to let unaccompanied into the streets with limited funds and no legal way of working,what would be the outcome? Is it a choice between incarceration or becoming street children?(and all that this entails) It seems the media recount the more colorful side of the equation and carefully omit the potential darker side. |
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06 Jun 18 - 12:37 PM (#3929475) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Perhaps hatred of Trump is so deep that sense goes clean out of the window. I originally took the article at face value. However after very little digging another narrative is uncovered. Make up your own minds. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/ It is by no means a problem unique to Trumps Administration. Check the date of the link below https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10916593/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants. |
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06 Jun 18 - 12:42 PM (#3929476) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "The photos do not look like a kennel to me.According to the text the cage walls are 18' high. " You obviously have never visited Battersea Dogs home Surely you are not defending this obscenity Jim Carroll |
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06 Jun 18 - 12:53 PM (#3929479) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains What is the alternative Jim. Let them roam the streets as vagrant unaccompanied minors? Is that the solution? or do you have a cure for the problem? I am all ears. |
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06 Jun 18 - 12:54 PM (#3929480) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll By the way The first article was by Jonothan S Tobin a neo-conservative Trump supporter, writing in support of the Trump regime What else is he going to say in defence of HMV The second article won't open but it doesn't matter unless it claims that Obama allowed children to be kept in Kennels You are right that the problem isn't UNIQUE TO TRUMP'S AMERICA though Jim Carroll |
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06 Jun 18 - 01:04 PM (#3929482) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains The daily telegraph 22 Jun 2014 /Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10916593/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants.html |
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06 Jun 18 - 01:07 PM (#3929483) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Trump apologists and co conspiratorial liars will claim anything without a source as Iains did again (fake blue clicky) As a reward for voting for Trump in 2020 he could promise that Viagra will become generic and only cost pennies per pill. There could be a sweepstakes for a date with Ivanka. More rewards TBA later The sensible folk here will never rely on your 'information' and dubious fake links Iaians but your game will lose its fun in time at least among the Americans |
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06 Jun 18 - 02:10 PM (#3929498) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Nice to know the daily telegraph is fake news, I suspect one or two here might take issue with you on that. It does seem to me that there has been a problem dealing with the sheer number of unaccompanied illegal child immigrants since at least OBama's second administration. To suddenly see it as a problem now is a tad mendacious. Where was your outrage during OBama's administration? By now the situation should have been resolved. Where was your democratic protest over that? After all it was during your administration the problem raised it's head and nothing was done to make any attempt to alleviate the situation. To suddenly make out it is a brand new problem due to the President is totally dishonest. Where is your shame? The link below shows a far better way to show your concern. I imagine most of these organisations still exist. From 2014 https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5895277/children-border-how-help-donate-volunteer-foster-immigrants-refugees |
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06 Jun 18 - 03:49 PM (#3929512) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: keberoxu Following the Vox magazine link supplied by Iains, the link is current regardless of being several years old. What is better, the specific organization links WITHIN the article remain valid. I just looked at the link for Annunciation House in El Paso. They are at their fortieth anniversary and desperately need to renovate their house/campus. |
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07 Jun 18 - 04:53 PM (#3929691) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel There is a fundamental pathos born of stripping children from parents. Even if you are a psychopath it tears at your heart strings. It was your link that could not be found, not the Telegraph Iians. Tea? |
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07 Jun 18 - 05:58 PM (#3929700) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains "“Today, nearly one in every 200 children in the world is a refugee,” said Lily Caprani, Unicef UK’s deputy executive director. “In the last few years we have seen huge numbers of children being forced to flee their homes, and take dangerous, desperate journeys, often on their own. Children on the move are at risk of the worst forms of abuse and harm and can easily fall victim to traffickers and other criminals." Just two countries – Syria and Afghanistan – comprise half of all child refugees under protection by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), while roughly three-quarters of the world’s child refugees come from just 10 countries. Now I wonder what country has created the mayhem to create these refugees? Is Iran the next domino to fall to swell the numbers? New and on-going global conflicts over the last five years have forced the number of child refugees to jump by 75% to 8 million, https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/sep/07/nearly-half-of-all-refugees-are-children-unicef-report-migrants-united-nations |
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07 Jun 18 - 06:04 PM (#3929701) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Joe Offer I'm having a hard time finding the truth in this. "Toddlers housed in kennel cages" sounds too extreme to be true, but it does appear that children are being taken from their parents, and the parents separated and jailed. Has anybody found a factual account on that's happening? -Joe- |
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07 Jun 18 - 06:18 PM (#3929704) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel You would if you could simplify your rant that all the respondsibility for evil in the world belongs to the actions and reactions of one nation, the United States. I have a more omnicient point of view and as such do not have your exclusive narrow focus. |
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07 Jun 18 - 06:40 PM (#3929706) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Joe. cages and kennels but shy on actual dimensions. https://riograndeguardian.com/gonzalez-backs-merkleys-valley-visit/ |
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07 Jun 18 - 06:50 PM (#3929708) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel The most cruel cage is the fear not the dimensions. I trust Sen. Merkley. What ever the conditions, there has to be chaos. |
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07 Jun 18 - 07:17 PM (#3929712) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Now I wonder what country has created the mayhem to create these refugees?" At present, the most ongoing reason for refugees is traceable back to oil - the need to guarantee a steady flow to the richer countries The largest single national group of refugees in the world today are The Palestinians - NEARLY 7.2 MILLION That is set to increase dramatically if the present demands for ethnic cleansing the Palestinians is met. Britain as a former Empire is very much a part of the creating of that inconceivable figure, especially with its policy of indiscriminate arms sales and the desire to to keep a "safe pair of hands" in charge, whatever their Human Rights record For instance, it seems appalling to sell fighter planes to the Saudis to be used in their war against the Famine-struck Yemenis and then refuse entry to the refugees from that war That's pretty well the stance we have taken in Syria - a war we could have helped stop, but instead, sold Assad chemicals that possibly helped him build a stock of chemical weapons Jim Carroll |
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07 Jun 18 - 07:21 PM (#3929713) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains No Donuel the most cruel cage is a totally blinkered mindset that refuses to acknowledge that the true story may have much deeper ramifications, and extend further back in time, than what is initially being presented. Awfully satisfying to blame all on the nasty Mr Trump. But is it true? And our you sufficient a sentient being to look for the bigger story? or just accept what is offered because it matches you perception of reality? |
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07 Jun 18 - 07:39 PM (#3929714) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself The issue is not whether it is a cage or a kennel; the issue is that children are being taken from their parents. |
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07 Jun 18 - 07:56 PM (#3929718) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "But is it true? " It is unbelievable that anybody should doubt this maiac to be incapable of anything given his behaviour since taking office - nearly as unbelievable as his being elected given his track-record The man is all the James Bond villains rolled into one, with a sprinkle of Dr Strangelove to add flavour Not too long ago you accused me of disrespecting the British people over their choice of newspaper - do the opinions of the millions who have demonstrated all over the world against his contemptible behaviour count for nothing (or are they "fake news" as well? Jim Carroll |
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07 Jun 18 - 09:14 PM (#3929727) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Joe Offer I know what the Trump Administration says about immigrants, and I doubt that they would have any hesitation about caging kids and breaking apart families. But I worked for the U.S. Government 1970-2001, and I know that U.S. civil servants generally will not treat human beings in an inhumane manner. I've worked in a number of immigration detention facilities, and they are generally quite humane. At least during the time that I worked for the government, a large number of Immigration employees were foreign-born, because most were required to speak a second language. I did write a number of scathing reports on Immigration employees who were cruel in their treatment of immigrants, but those inhumane employees were a very small minority. So, yeah, it's hard for me to believe that immigration detention facilities are as cruel as some liberal politicians claim them to be, or that some conservative politicians want them to be. But for a U.S. Senator or Member of Congress to be refused entry to a government facility? That seems to me to be unthinkable. I think there must be something more to that story. I'd like to see the truth, and so far I have seen information from sources I don't know or don't trust. -Joe- P.S. Jim Carroll, this thread is not about Palestine, so please refrain from talking about Palestine in this thread. This thread is about U.S. Immigration, which is also a serious issue. |
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07 Jun 18 - 09:29 PM (#3929729) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself My impression is that the professionals dealing with the children are being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers - formerly, they only had 'unaccompanied minors' - mostly teenagers - to deal with; now they have large numbers of 'accompanied' minors added, and these are younger children. The accusation is not that individuals are treating them badly, but that the system itself is, in the end, unnecessarily cruel. |
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08 Jun 18 - 02:54 AM (#3929760) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Jim Carroll, this thread is not about Palestine," My mentioning Palestine was in response to Iains question of where the immigration problem originated To attempt to ban references to facts such as these is highly censorial and goes against everything forums such as these should stand for As it is, it is virtually impossible to discuss a current issue because "Palestine" has become forbidden Mudcat territory I have no wish to fall out with you, so please do not make yourself part of this censorship Jim Carroll |
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08 Jun 18 - 03:39 AM (#3929769) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Joe Offer I see that the senator from Oregon was denied entrance to a contract detention facility, not a government facility. This "lack of transparency" has always been a problem with contracted correctional facilities. Facilities operated by civil service employees have far fewer abuses. -Joe- |
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08 Jun 18 - 04:22 AM (#3929772) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains I may not understand all of the intricacies of the argument but was is not the treatment of illegal immigrants as criminals that both created and publicised the problem. Are the children not put in a care facility if the parents are arrested ? Surely this has to be more humane than arresting them and caging them along with their parents? The wider issues of: private detention facilitities overcrowding the increased scale of an ongoing problem the fact that the US holds greater numbers in jail than virtually anywhere else These issues may or may not be a part of the same problem. The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump, even for the sun rising in the morning! |
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08 Jun 18 - 04:33 AM (#3929773) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou In UK, there are several 'contracted-out' prisons, run by G4S, Serco etc. Yet they are subject to regular compulsory, unannounced inspections by government teams in the same way as any other prisons. The same regulations apply to all detention units, Young Offenders Institutions, immigration detention centres and so on. Surely one cannot have private companies keeping people (including children!!!) in detention with no monitoring, assessment or supervision? All sorts of horrendous abuses could be taking place! |
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08 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM (#3929774) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump" This aggressive language is goung to close this thread That it should be in support of the most unstable and aggressive world leader since Hitler is ironic, to say the least Support this monster if that's what turns you on, but do so showing a degree of respect to other posters or you will end up punishing us all Jim Carroll |
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08 Jun 18 - 04:50 AM (#3929775) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Jim Carroll - PM Date: 08 Jun 18 - 04:38 AM Ho, Ho, Ho! |
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08 Jun 18 - 05:19 AM (#3929778) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Ho, Ho, Ho!" Can I request that a mid pots a stop to this without closing this thread This behaviour is obviously designed to close this thread Jim Carroll |
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08 Jun 18 - 07:32 AM (#3929798) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Obviously in too much of a hurry trying to stop this thread being closed Should read "Can I request that a mod puts a stop to this without closing this thread" Apologies Jim Carroll |
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08 Jun 18 - 09:54 AM (#3929815) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Stilly River Sage The liberals seem to have only read part of the story before the gnashing of teeth and wailing and automatically blaming Trump Iains, you must have a moldy ball of straw in place of a heart, for your reading or "understanding" of this huge problem. |
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08 Jun 18 - 11:18 AM (#3929828) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel This closed empty Walmart, with blacked out windows does not strike me as any kind of facility to care for children and babies emotionally, medically, feed, cleanse, clothe, and teach or exercise children. I do not know if there are armed guards. Assuming these things are even done, how much does that cost? I would be surprised if Donald would spend a dime. This policy of automaticly seizing children when parents legally apply for rescue ASYLUM from murderous conditions (for Iains info) is from Trump, not Bush, not Obama. I have not even mentioned the runaways, unaccounted for, the lost or trafficed kids. btw I just heard Trump say he is considering pardoning Mohamed Ali. ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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08 Jun 18 - 11:31 AM (#3929830) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Think about the Walmart bathrooms serving 1,500, ya can't wash in portable potties I bet they are not letting US Senators into the "facility' because of the smell alone. |
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08 Jun 18 - 01:51 PM (#3929852) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself I'm not American, but I must say I found the sight of the US Senator being casually barred entry to the facility like an underage kid trying to get into a nightclub disturbing. I would have liked to see at least some nervous fidgeting, and hushed phone calls going back and forth, and someone higher up on the totem pole coming out and blustering and BS-ing. I mean, even Michael Moore at Wal-Mart got better treatment ......... |
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08 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM (#3929858) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou I understand that many of the children detained as illegal immigrants had no parents with them at the time of their arrest. The poor souls just crossed the border unattended, so it might be incorrect to imagine they've been 'torn from their parents' in any way. This has happened across Europe too, and what to do with them is a difficult problem. But the environment at the centres should be suitable for children, and include some form of play, fresh air, comfortable sleeping arrangements and assessment by medical staff etc. They are NOT criminals at such a young age, and could become victims of paedophiles/illegal workforce etc if 'farmed out to 'volunteer carers'. Regular inspection is vital. It all sounds like Oliver Twist, and the centre resembles the blooming Workhouses set up in England in the nineteenth century! Disgraceful, and lacking in any basic compassion for their physical and mental welfare. |
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08 Jun 18 - 03:29 PM (#3929868) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself No - the issue is that they ARE being torn from their parents - until trump took over, only 'unaccompanied minors' were being put in these facilities, which was understandable; now 'accompanied' minors are being taken from their mothers and added to the mix, hence, the over-crowding. |
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08 Jun 18 - 03:32 PM (#3929869) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou Good grief, that's horrendous then! It could damage them for life psychologically! I can hardly bear to think about it. |
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08 Jun 18 - 03:59 PM (#3929871) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself And that is what the "fake/liberal/snowflake" commentators are pointing out - that the younger children are potentially being done permanent damage. But - no one seems to care much, really, as far as I can see. |
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08 Jun 18 - 04:48 PM (#3929874) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains If parents are arrested, irregardless of the crime, the children are not arrested with them and put in the same jail. They are put in a care facility. The US has a problem with incarceration. They have too many in jail per head ofpopulation compared to all other civilised countries. The real issue here is that the facilities for dealing with children are insufficient, inadequate and quite likely poorly supervised. That this situation may be exacerbated by regarding illegal aliens as criminals simply adds to what was an ongoing problem going back some years, certainly before this administration took office. The real need for protest is that these ongoing problems have not been addressed. Let us be honest there are few honest contributors here. Senoufou stands out as one shining example. The rest simply want to denigrate the president and could not give a sh*t about the children. What sort of people does that make you? |
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08 Jun 18 - 05:01 PM (#3929875) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Well ... that was weird ........... |
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08 Jun 18 - 06:24 PM (#3929887) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: pdq I looked up the term 'toddler' and the consensus is that it applies to a child between 1 and 3 years old. One that usually walk in an un-steady manner or 'toddles'. The thread titles suggest that such kids are held in abandoned dog kernels just to teach their parents a lesson. This claim is complete crap yet the moderators let it slide. Muscat has a problem. |
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08 Jun 18 - 06:49 PM (#3929892) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Do you think it's maybe just possible that the mods just missed that misuse of the term toddler, and not part of some Deep State lizard-people conspiracy? I didn't notice it. Now that you bring it up, I agree that it is misleading; they are no doubt beyond the toddler stage; the youngest seem to be at least five-years-old And, no, they aren't being taken away to punish the parents - it seems to be so that the word will spread that if you cross the border illegally and then claim refugee status, your children will be taken from you. |
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08 Jun 18 - 07:12 PM (#3929900) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel "so it might be incorrect to imagine they've been 'torn from their parents' in any way." IT IS NOT INCORRECT "If parents are arrested, irregardless of the crime, the children are not arrested with them and put in the same jail. They are put in a care facility." THESE PARENTS WHOSE KIDS ARE SEIZED ARE NOT ARRESTED FOR ANY CRIME. THEY ARE LEGALLY APPLYING FOR ASYLUM BY US LAW. This is what it is and is not designed, created or weaponized as a partisan weapon. I did create a partisan 'Trump is a one trick pony' thread to let folks know its worse than they think. By some responses here it sounds like you guys are having a hard time realizing its worse than they think. No , the Children's Walmart is not a Hitler death camp barracks. Yes , some kids will be understandably upset. I've been to some old Rock concerts that had worse conditions. The Poor Peoples March was pretty miserable too. |
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08 Jun 18 - 07:15 PM (#3929901) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: keberoxu Hold your horses. It's all very well to criticize the statement. And I notice that no names are named in the criticism. Having said that, United States Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, repeatedly interviewed by more than one television network since the story broke four days ago, has stuck by his statements and his opinions. Merkley repeats the phrase "how you would construct a dog kennel" both on CNN and on CBS on-camera interviews. He saw a "tiny, tiny" little boy whose age he estimated between four and five years. Does Mudcat have a problem if, in fact, the thread title reflects what the main speaker in the journalistic report actually said? Or is the problem not limited to Mudcat? Stop and look at this carefully, please, if you may. |
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08 Jun 18 - 07:17 PM (#3929903) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: keberoxu And thanks a lot, Iains, for lumping me in with "what sort of people" ... that will make me think twice about speaking up to defend you with a post of my own. |
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09 Jun 18 - 03:59 AM (#3929930) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Keberoxu. Your comments on this thread have been objective. That makes you an honest contributor. As on most threads that puts you in the minority that can hold their heads high. I apologise if that distinction was not obvious enough. |
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09 Jun 18 - 10:57 AM (#3929936) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains For clarity I should add that comment of mine of lumping people together is only in the context of threads political where affiliations often appear dictate responses rather than facts. |
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09 Jun 18 - 01:53 PM (#3929971) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel I can and will disagree with; spin, non facts and answers to different questions. That is objectivity. This federal child abuse issue is the direct consequence of a ZERO TOLERENCE policy. Zero tolerance always creates chaos. Zero tolerance can even lead to trade wars and trade wars lead to shooting wars and depressions. Hold your head high if you support the Senators who are voting to Abolish this Trump zero tolerence policy. |
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12 Jun 18 - 04:42 AM (#3930439) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains There seems to have been a lot of political grandstanding and inaccuracies publicized concerning the allegations of caged children. The Washington post article below makes a partial attempt to give a dispassionate account-but in my view fails. Judge for yourselves. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/06/06/does-the-u-s-keep-immigrant-children-in-cages/?noredirect=on&utm_ https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/ |
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12 Jun 18 - 05:00 AM (#3930440) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll JUDGE FOR YOURSELF MORE IN MORE DETAIL Jim Carroll |
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12 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM (#3930443) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Maybe they are preparing children for adulthood in TRUMP'S AMERICA Jim Carroll |
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12 Jun 18 - 05:09 AM (#3930444) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Jim as your links show, many of the photos are from 2014. This suggests to me, that if there is a true problem and it is not hype, then both sides of the political divide are equally guilty. That nasty man Obama also incarcerated children in cages. You may well be able to argue that the sitting president has added to the problem by adhering to the law, but the deficiencies in the present system go back years before Trump even decided to run for the Presidency. |
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12 Jun 18 - 05:40 AM (#3930453) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll And the reports of the abuse of refugees is current Obama inherited a legacy of anbusive and repressive America; he did his best to bring a shadow of decency to his country was time and again frustrated from doing so He was by no means perfect but at least he attempted to humanise his country - the man you are flying the flag for has dragged it back to it's degenerate, bullying worst In doing so. he has re-awakened scum like the Klan and now is busy destabalising the planet with his diplomatic skills while at the same time doing his bit to turn it into an ECOLOGICAL NIGHTMARE What on earth do you think this man has to have said in his favour? Maybe we should ask some WOMEN Jim Carroll |
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12 Jun 18 - 06:07 AM (#3930456) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains What on earth do you think this man has to have said in his favour? Hows about a nuclear free North Korea? |
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12 Jun 18 - 06:14 AM (#3930458) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll THIS WAS ONE OF OBAMSA'S LAST STATEMENTS ON THE REFUGEE SITUATION THIS IS TRUMP'S ATTITUDE TO DATE As you say, judge for yourself Jim Carroll |
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12 Jun 18 - 12:06 PM (#3930520) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Hows about a nuclear free North Korea?" Leaving two aggressive powers - America and I*****l with the facility to bomb their enemies "back into the Stone Age" (to quote an American General? I detest nuclear weapons and spent years marching against their proliferation - the argument was that as so many countries had them they acted as a deterrent The only nation ever to use them against civilians is th good o0' U.S. of A., so am I happy that they (especially with a madman who boasts his button is bigger than everybody elses in charge) keep them - are you? I have no time for the leaders of North Korea but, having seen their people bombed into the level of LIVING IN CAVES by the U.S., the Korean's would be insane to leave themselves defenceless from such a maniac From the look of what happened at the meeting, nothing has changed anyway Jim Carroll |
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12 Jun 18 - 09:13 PM (#3930588) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel How aboutisms aside... It is chilling how ICE tells mothers they are taking the children for a bath. Then the children are siezed as parents sometimes hear the screaming of the children being held in an adjacent room. Who does/did that Jim? Other times parents are told to leave briefly for a photo and they return to the holding room with no children to be foun. |
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13 Jun 18 - 02:03 AM (#3930608) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "How aboutisms aside..." I take your point Donuel - isn't this 'chillingly' reminiscent of the new arrivals at the "Arbeit macht frei" camps being sent to the "showers" once it was decided who was fit to work and who was not? Surely, there has to be a point when humanity asks itself what has happened to its humanity. Dubya?- Obama? - Trump? - we are all part of allowing this to happen - it's being done by our elected representatives in our name A bit smug, but it wouldn't have happened in my time without a massive street demonstration. Jim Carroll |
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13 Jun 18 - 04:08 AM (#3930622) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou I felt exactly the same Jim when I heard about these 'centres'. Horribly similar to blooming Auschwitz! All they need is a gas-chamber. I see a similar mindset when I read about the Africans in terribly unsea-worthy inflatable boats trying to reach Italy. Some people couldn't care less if they all drown (and hundreds have), and there have been objections to the charity rescue ships who (and God bless them!) save their lives at the very point of drowning and give them food and water. These are human beings, suffering and frightened. No matter what one feels about immigration and all that, how could anyone take a child away from its parents or indifferently let men, women and children sink under the sea? Unimaginable cruelty and callousness. |
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13 Jun 18 - 04:15 AM (#3930623) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: David Carter (UK) Getting ahead of yourself there Iains. North Korea has committed to working towards complete denuclearisation. Just as all of the existing nuclear powers which are signatories of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty are committed to working towards "a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control" under article VI of that treaty. But they have been committed to that since 1968. And they havn't exactly got very far. |
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13 Jun 18 - 05:33 AM (#3930629) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "objections to the charity rescue ships who (and God bless them!) save their lives at the very point of drowning" The Spanish have provided a shining example of humanity in accepting the refugees turned away by Italy and Malta An example to be followed by all instead of this inhuman back-turning Jim |
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13 Jun 18 - 06:33 AM (#3930637) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains David Carter there are some go through life with a glass half full, others with a glass half empty. Which is the most beneficial? |
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13 Jun 18 - 07:41 AM (#3930651) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: David Carter (UK) Mine will be half full when there are no nuclear weapons at all. It would be completely full when there were no military forces at all. North Korea represents a tiny dribble, compared with the vast nuclear arsenals of other countries. |
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14 Jun 18 - 03:05 PM (#3930896) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel The Trump solution to taking kids to the point of overcrowding is to erect a tent city in Texas and truck the overflow of kids there. |
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15 Jun 18 - 06:55 AM (#3930988) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel The private prison for kids is humane afterall. They allowed parents to Skype their 8 month old. |
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15 Jun 18 - 03:38 PM (#3931075) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel More humanity is introduced. Brothers and sisters are allowed a quick visit once a week. Of the 16,000 kids being held/detained only 2,000 are the ones physically seperated from thier parents. Yay ! |
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16 Jun 18 - 06:01 AM (#3931161) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: David Carter (UK) Unbelievably, Sessions, backed up to some extent by Sanders, has been quoting St. Paul in support of this vile policy. |
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16 Jun 18 - 12:21 PM (#3931229) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself If the US lasts long enough, there will be public apologies and restitutions paid some day ... but who cares, that's way off in the future ..... |
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16 Jun 18 - 03:42 PM (#3931281) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself I'm listening right now to a report from one Dr Colleen Kraft, President of the American Academy of Pediatrics, who just visited one of these detention sites - she says she saw a number of toddlers there, some "pre-verbal" - she told a heart-breaking story of a toddler crying hysterically for her mother. None of the staff is allowed to touch these children, so no one could hug the child to comfort her. It's monstrous. |
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16 Jun 18 - 04:02 PM (#3931287) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Senoufou Oh Lord, that is absolutely heartbreaking meself. It amounts to mental torture. How could anyone be so cruel? |
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16 Jun 18 - 06:00 PM (#3931294) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: pdq "Some 90% of the children at the shelter arrived at the border without adults; the other 10% were separated from the adults accompanying them. Once the children arrive — usually brought by U.S. Border Patrol agents — they are greeted in the “intake” office, where they receive any urgent medical care, are assigned a case worker, and are given food, a shower, and new clothing. They are also given toiletries and lessons in hygiene — literally how to flush a toilet, brush their teeth, and operate the shower, which some of the children may have never seen in their lives. They have limited access to telephones to call relatives, both in the U.S. and abroad. They receive therapy, both as individuals and in group sessions. They enjoy field trips to local museums, parks, and the zoo, where they can explore the city beyond the shelter. And they also have social activities, including a recent “prom” for which they dressed up. “Cages,” these are not. What is immediately striking about the facility is the enthusiasm and care of the staff who work there. One administrator greeted the journalists on the tour: “Welcome to our home.” The children at the facility seemed genuinely happy, despite their unfortunate circumstances and the trauma of their long journey. The real scandal is how the media have portrayed the shelters. When MSNBC’s Jacob Soboroff toured a similar facility this week in Brownsville, Texas, for example, he referredto the children there as being “incarcerated,” which is only true in the same sense that hospital patients, too, are not permitted to leave, for their safety. (One official who had seen Soboroff’s televised report accused him of “flat-out lying” about the facility — such as, for example, reporting on a mural of Donald Trump without noting 19 other presidents were similarly depicted.) Southwest Key has operated its facilities — 27 in total, across California, Arizona, and Texas — since 1997, when the U.S. Supreme Court decided in Flores v. Reno that unaccompanied illegal alien minors could not be held in detention facilities. This is not a new problem, even though it took Trump to make the media realize it existed." |
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16 Jun 18 - 06:31 PM (#3931298) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Dr Kraft interview |
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16 Jun 18 - 09:26 PM (#3931310) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel For the kids who can remember a number or letter they have have a towel and beds. But toddlers at bedtime are subjected to a cage to control bedlam at bedtime and getting lost. Grey wristbands sort out identities unless removed. editorial remark: If Biblical justification is all you need to justify crimes as law some of you know of the atrocities Attorney General Sessions could hail as legal. Its too sick to repeat. George Washington wrote a letter about his disppointmwnt with some rebellious christians regarding a separation of church and state. If a rebel christian is at the core of the justice department, the US creeps closer to a system of government that Iran is known for. As for Trump, he knows one passage, "render unto Ceasar". |
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16 Jun 18 - 10:09 PM (#3931318) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Using the logic of Sessions, the Founding Fathers and their supporters were rebelling not only against their government, but against God. After all, God had "ordained" that they be ruled by Britain. |
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17 Jun 18 - 03:14 PM (#3931485) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Happy Father's Day. |
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18 Jun 18 - 12:52 AM (#3931549) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Joe Offer Trump himself says he hates the taking of children from their parents, but he blames the laws passed by Democrats. I think Trump is holding these children as hostages, to force the Democrats to vote to pay for his silly wall. He really seems obsessed with that wall. -Joe- |
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18 Jun 18 - 03:56 AM (#3931572) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Meanwhile while leftists are throwing a fit over President Trump's proposed border wall with Mexico, they couldn't care less about Turkey's new massive 764-kilometer border wall with Syria paid for with European Union funds. http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58567 or elsewhere in Europe: Bulgaria Slovenia Hungary Macedonia Austria France Of Course we all know the Great Wall of China and Hadrians Wall were merely built to entertain tourists thousands of years later, and Offa's dyke was built to enable the confiscation of bows and arrows off the wayward welsh https://www.indy100.com/article/a-map-of-the-six-european-countries-who-have-built-a-wall-to-stop-migrants-7320271 http://theconversation.com/europes-wall-against-african-migrants-is-almost-complete-76758 |
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18 Jun 18 - 08:18 AM (#3931634) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll This "children in cages" obscenity appears to have hit the fan in a big way - film footage of protests in Texas. shots of the cages, Mrs Dubya comparing the conditions refugees are held as "not unlike those of American s imprisoned by the Japanese in WW1 - even Melania Trump commenting on Hummy's inhuman attitude to refugees - probably all "leftists" When are you going to stop defending this scumbag with your "wahaboutism" Iains? |
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18 Jun 18 - 08:46 AM (#3931643) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains When are you going to stop defending this scumbag with your "wahaboutism" Iains? Put your head in the sand if you wish Jimmy. Illegal immigration is a major problem in Europe and will likely lead to the fall of Merkel. That will put the EU in uncharted waters. Do you think those fences go up purely to waste taxpayers money or do you think perhaps there is a valid reason for their construction all over Europe. Do you ever make any attempt to unravel the complexities of any given situation before you fire from the hip blinded to reality by your socialist bubble? Whataboutism (also known as Whataboutery) is a form of defensive propaganda used by the loony left. Congratulations on widening your vocabulary, childish was getting a little overused, doncha think? And an article from the Independant from 2016. Oh Look! Syrian children in cages. Where are your squeals about this shocking photograph. What about that then! 4 years ago and not even a pathetic little squeak off you. Care to explain yourself??????? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/brick-and-mortars-a7367831.html Never mind about the real issue, let's continue to poke Trump in the eye. What sort of person does that make you.? |
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18 Jun 18 - 09:09 AM (#3931646) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains Perhaps a close study of the following links may explain the refugee crisis gripping many parts of the world. Some had best pray the chickens never come home to roost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA |
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18 Jun 18 - 09:23 AM (#3931653) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Jimmy." Back to attempting to talk down to - as desperate as that We've discussed the causes of refugeeism - oil seems to be missing from your links This in no way explains what is happening in the US at present You think it's OK - go write to Mrs Trump and Barbara Bush Trump's animal (perhaps the wrong word - animals do not cage fellow creatures) behaviour is beyond belief, as is the behaviour of those who would defend it. Jim Carroll |
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18 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM (#3931654) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll FOR YOUR DELICTATION Or perhaps you prefer the RIGHTIST TELEGRAPH as you ap[ear to believe the leftist Guardian is purveyor of "Fake News" Jim Carroll |
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18 Jun 18 - 09:34 AM (#3931658) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: David Carter (UK) Isn't it a bit pointless writing to Barbara Bush these days? |
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18 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM (#3931712) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Sorry - wrong Mrs Bush Forgot about the Dynasty Jim Carroll |
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18 Jun 18 - 02:03 PM (#3931736) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains "animals do not cage fellow creatures) behaviour is beyond belief, as is the behaviour of those who would defend it." Like the esteemed White Helmets for example. Always active in rebel areas, never with the legal government. https://abcnews.go.com/International/syrian-rebel-group-parades-civilians-cages-deter-regime/story?id=34940990 |
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18 Jun 18 - 02:16 PM (#3931738) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains I normally just look at Rumour Mill News purely for entertainment value but the linked article seems on the money to me. Especially the last sentence:Yes, separating children from their parents is cruel. What is cruelest of all is the way the left is using children as political pawns. http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=101355 |
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18 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM (#3931742) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Quinapeak polls show 23% are in favor of immigrant children being separated, held in detention and punished. They are not the left. |
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18 Jun 18 - 02:38 PM (#3931743) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Syrian Rebels and Rumor Mill blog site - are you serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give us a break Not a rumor Iains - intevies with Dubya's wife, Mrs Trump and masses of proresters What has Syria to do with what is happening in America Jim Carroll |
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18 Jun 18 - 03:36 PM (#3931750) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains walls and cages jimmy, walls and cages! |
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18 Jun 18 - 04:11 PM (#3931751) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: pdq ...I did not write this but it is just the facts, ma'am: In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Flores vs Reno. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his parents arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.) The Court decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings. You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right? As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy. It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions. A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997. So, since Donald Trump was running his real estate empire, selling wine and casinos in 1993, we are left to determine just how he managed to orchestrate this cruel “separation of immigrant parent and child” 25 years BEFORE he was President of the United States. The obvious answer is, he didn’t. He had nothing to do with establishing this United States immigration policy. Today, he simply enforces it. This one story illustrates how important it is for us to do our research regarding today’s headlines. The Corporate Media either refuses to do the research, is incapable of doing the research or has done the research and decided to lie to you about its findings. Either way, this would make the Corporate Media lazy, incompetent or just plain deceptive. Liars, if you will. You decide. For, as NBC would say, “the more you know.“ |
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18 Jun 18 - 05:05 PM (#3931759) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: robomatic I don't see any point in staging virtuosity displays over this issue, which is what everybody in the world is doing, maybe a little bit in here, too. Decisions and laws get made to solve problems which sometimes change over time. The essence of a working democracy is to perceive the changes and act accordingly. The United States has been lazy on many fronts for many years, and immigration and handling of 'illegal' residents is a major failure on all our parts. "Harvest of Shame" a CBS Reports documentary aired 1959-1960 exposing the plight of immigrant farmworkers who were used as cheap labor. The movie "El Norte" was a fictionalized story of the remains of a family fleeing violence in Guatemala and finding work and victimization in the United States. 1983 dear people. By this time the responsibility is firmly on all Americans. Perps down there, perps up here, and users all round. Trump did not create this mess, he will not fix this mess. Trump is not even a symptom. He's a pustule on the boil, if that. It's a Pogo moment. Most of you should be old enough to know what that is. |
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18 Jun 18 - 05:15 PM (#3931760) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel The zero tolerence policy is new as of April 14 2018 and is the policy of Trump and Sessions. As for Russian fake news and right wing fake news you are free to drink but it is toxic. 3 first ladies are against the new zero tolerence policy and have all submitted public letters. -------------------------- THE US Supream Court has ruled that it is legal to purge people from registered voter lists if they do not vote in a primary. To me; This means if they don't investigate Republicans, they will get to vote but if you are a registered Democrat you are under suspicion. This ruling should be enough to allow for a Trump Victory in 2020 |
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18 Jun 18 - 05:19 PM (#3931761) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Actually, the situation is not that complicated: children are being taken from their parents. One phone call from trump could stop it. |
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18 Jun 18 - 08:10 PM (#3931784) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel To help keep this simple there are laws to prevent child abuse "no government employees may touch children" so the people in charge to care of the kids will not change diapers. Volunteer older girl children are told to do this duty. |
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19 Jun 18 - 12:47 AM (#3931817) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: David Carter (UK) Trump says he "doesn't want America to become a migrant camp like Europe". Doesn't know much about the history of his own country, does he? |
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19 Jun 18 - 02:46 AM (#3931827) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "walls and cages jimmy, walls and cages!" Desperate as that !!!! The cages are filmed and now appearing daily on our TV screens Now you are out-Trumping Mrs Trump and out-Bushing Mrs Dubya-Bush in attempting to defend this vicious and extremely dangerous world leader Even Fox News, in a Freudian slip, described him as a "dictator" when they described he and Kim Jong-un as "THE TWO DICTATORS" Can't go higher than that for a recommendation Jim Carroll |
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19 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM (#3931840) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Backwoodsman An American 'Pastor' (from the 'Deep South', judging by his almost unintelligible accent) on radio last night was asked why Donny doesn't just make one phone-call and end it. His response was that he can't do that because "Our laaaahhs are aaawwdained by Gaaaahhd, he has no power to change what Gaaaahhd has aaawwdained".** What a knob. The poor, maltreated little buggers don't stand a chance against that kind of wilful, shit-for-brains thinking. ** Disclaimer - that is the substance of what he said, accurate in its representation (and a pretty accurate representation of how he said it). I was driving and had no chance to write down his precise words and, this morning having slept six or seven hours, I don't remember his words exactly? |
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19 Jun 18 - 09:02 AM (#3931873) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Great accent Backwoodsman. I repeated a lie. There is no evidence of any calls, skype or communication of parents with incarcerated children. Most accurately this policy is the brain child of Stephen Miller. The unreleased pictures of siezed toddlers and girls are not gruesome but the smell of unchanged diapers is. btw Trump wants a new important military space force that is - -seperate but equal. Damn the treaties full speed ahead. purging many Democrats from voter registration is now legal in a decision by the Supream Court. The Atlantic Magazine shows The Sessions path to end civil Rights This is all worse than my worst nightmare How did this happen? Good people like Joe Offer said it can't happen here and what the smart money says its not that bad. |
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19 Jun 18 - 11:57 AM (#3931915) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll "Great accent Backwoodsman." You want to hear him do Scouse!! Jim Carroll |
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19 Jun 18 - 11:59 AM (#3931918) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll On second thoughts - no you don't Jim Carroll |
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19 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM (#3931943) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Backwoodsman Arrff, arrff, arrff! :-) :-) |
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19 Jun 18 - 02:26 PM (#3931945) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Backwoodsman And, of course, the US is demonstrating perfectly why there should be no place for religion in politics - they should be kept completely separate. |
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19 Jun 18 - 05:30 PM (#3931982) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Anti Trump bias combined with ancestors in the US less than six generations makes for automatic lying sub class citizens in your book. Real Americans like Glen Beck are the only blood and soil truth tellers, in your book we are the whiners and criers like those illegal kids. It won't be long until you have the entire country to yourself. |
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19 Jun 18 - 06:01 PM (#3931990) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Bonzo3legs Trump is short for Trumpler!!! You usaians voted for this arsehole, you deal with it!!!!!!!!!!! |
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19 Jun 18 - 07:26 PM (#3931999) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: beardedbruce Donuel, You have never read MY book. IT IS A LIE that "THE US Supreme Court has ruled that it is legal to purge people from registered voter lists if they do not vote in a primary." There was a lot more to it than that, but since YOU are more interested in making a political point than approaching the truth, you ignore the facts. So it is obvious that YOUR solution to the illegal immigrants is to jail the children with the families, and let them be abused by all and sundry. That IS the Liberal way, right? "Anti Trump bias combined with ancestors in the US less than six generations makes for automatic lying sub class citizens in your book" LIE. |
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19 Jun 18 - 09:32 PM (#3932010) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Purging people from voting will help who?' America is INFESTED with illegals. DT dehumanize take children teach fear and hate its all good practice for an old despotic trick |
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19 Jun 18 - 11:31 PM (#3932019) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: beardedbruce Wrong again, Donuel. Purging people from the voter roles who Have not voted in the last 6 years do not respond to letters from the election boards are dead or have moved away would give us a better election process- who knows, the graveyard vote may well have elected Trump. But YOU would rather use the Supreme Court ruling to dump on Trump- which, IMO, makes YOU a lesser person, and less honorable than HE is. And that is saying something. Glad you want all those kids now housed at government expense to either go to prison, or be dumped on the streets when their parents are put in prison or deported. Shows what a kind, caring heart YOU have. |
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20 Jun 18 - 01:58 AM (#3932026) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Backwoodsman Time to close the thread.... |
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20 Jun 18 - 03:41 AM (#3932038) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Best to ignore the troll - isn't that what you always say Baccie ? You no more let such people win than you let The Devil have the best tunes. It is useful to see someone laying all their cards on the table for this piece of work - that doesn't often happen "makes YOU a lesser person, and less honorable than HE is. And that is saying something." Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 05:07 AM (#3932055) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll ACCEPTABLE FOR THOSE WHO FLY THE RIGHT FLAG apparently Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 05:25 AM (#3932066) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains I assume Trumps supposed antisemitism is the reason for: "In what critics framed as Orwellian ‘up-is-down, down-is-up’ remarks from the State Department on Tuesday, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo officially announced that the U.S. is withdrawing from its participation in the U.N. Human Rights Council, claiming the body responsible for upholding international standards for human rights was no longer “worthy of its name.” Haley—who has steadfastly refused to acknowledge the human rights violations of close U.S. ally Israel, including multiple charges regarding that country’s alleged war crimes carried out against Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza—said the withdrawal from the council was necessary “because our commitment does not allow us to remain a part of a hypocritical and self-serving organization that makes a mockery of human rights.” A strange way of supporting antisemitism methinks! |
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20 Jun 18 - 05:48 AM (#3932073) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Iains And in Europe? https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Accompanied_migrant_minors_detention_ENG.pdf |
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20 Jun 18 - 06:02 AM (#3932080) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll When are you going to come to terms with the fact that it doesn't matter a fiddlers fart who does it Iains - it's the behaviour of barbarians The shit treatment of immigrants is a phenomenon of the politics and the people you defend, so each time you put another up it appears to be an act of triumphalism Please stop gloating over your triumphs against humanity Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 06:08 AM (#3932083) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll By the way - what is happening in Gaza hs nothing to do with antisemitism in any way, shape or form unless you reject the clause in the definition which says that it is antisemitic to associate the Jewish people with the acts of the Israeli Government You have Trump's antisemitism - fake news maybe !!!!! Seems to be the latest 'get-out-of-jail card for Trumpeters nowadays Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 06:33 AM (#3932090) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel First scape goats first. First its Mexican rapists and El Salvador MS 13 Then its toddlers Then its those insulting Canadians and eventually Trump will get around to Jews and Catholics. Maybe beards will be banned too. Remember goats don't scape themselves |
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20 Jun 18 - 07:02 AM (#3932095) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Surely the alarm bells became deafening when the White Robed Ol' BOYS IN POINTY HATS joined his parade cheer-led by CRAZY ANNIE COULTER Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 07:02 AM (#3932096) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Surely the alarm bells became deafening when the White Robed Ol' BOYS IN POINTY HATS joined his parade cheer-led by CRAZY ANNIE COULTER Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 07:35 AM (#3932099) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll America has announced its withdrawal from the United Nations Human Rights Committee - surely a coincidence!!!! The Israeli leadership has described it as "a courageous move" while Boris Johnson says it is "regrettable" The suggestion is that, following the Iran Agreement pull-out and other moves, America is leading an alignment of extremist states Happy days - eh what Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 08:25 AM (#3932112) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Jim Carroll Trump just said "putting children in cages doesn't look good" Sums the man up completely Jim Carroll |
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20 Jun 18 - 09:30 AM (#3932128) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Ivanka quote - Its bad optics Human rights commission tossed to the curb Coincidence my ass Civil rights are next, then constitutional rights Puerto Rico showed us the right to life is only as valuable as paper towels. |
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20 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM (#3932155) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: meself Americans: what's the general feeling in your neighbourhoods - do people generally care about what's being done in their name to babies and children at the border? |
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20 Jun 18 - 01:02 PM (#3932189) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel First, Americans do not have neighbourhoods, they have neighbors who only speak about religion and politics anonymously unless they already know their neighbor is an idiot and avoid all but small talk rumors about other neighbors. ;^/ |
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20 Jun 18 - 01:08 PM (#3932191) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Donuel Trump will sign a desist separation of children order but says zero tolerance is still in effect. Now how long will it take to find all the lost kids? |
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20 Jun 18 - 07:33 PM (#3932271) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: wysiwyg Don't be fooled by today's executive order! https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=265737387306657&id=211654686048261&ref=page_internal |
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20 Jun 18 - 09:15 PM (#3932278) Subject: RE: BS: Toddlers housed in kennel cages From: Richard Atkins So Trump has decided to abolish children separated in concentration camps for family ones instead, wow big deal. I trust the voters in the USA will remember his deeds, and perhaps vote a president in future that gives world respect to the USA God Bless England :>) Perhaps there will be less trolling in a new thread to discuss the effectiveness of the executive order and if immigrant families will be reunited and released from concentration camps? Find out in the next riveting chapter, started any moment now . . . |