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10 Sep 18 - 10:49 AM (#3949449) Subject: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Well, Carole is not being very honest when she tells the story of her life because she has decided to write Neil Sedaka out of the narrative. Neil gets barely a passing reference in her autobiography, and in her comprehensive interview for the Kennedy Centre, Neil doesn't even get a mention. Now, she probably has "issues" with Neil but talk about rewriting history. |
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10 Sep 18 - 11:43 AM (#3949455) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Jack Campin From what (very) little I remember of Neil Sedaka, he was a moany little soft-pop starlet who was deservedly forgotten. Can't recall any Carole King song either. |
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10 Sep 18 - 11:45 AM (#3949457) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,keberoxu Really? You can't recall "You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman"? |
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10 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM (#3949459) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: punkfolkrocker "From what (very) little I remember of Neil Sedaka, he was a moany little soft-pop starlet who was deservedly forgotten. Can't recall any Carole King song either." British Folk - the music community that broad minded tolerance forgot... |
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10 Sep 18 - 11:54 AM (#3949460) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Jack Campin I remember that one line (nothing else of the song) and thought it was Aretha Franklin. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:03 PM (#3949461) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor Carole K wrote so many great melodies, Under the Boardwalk, Wasn't Born to Follow, You've Got a Friend to name just a few. AFAIC Sedaka doesn't belong in the same conversation with her though Artur Rubenstein did compliment his piano playing, as I recall. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:04 PM (#3949462) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Jack, showing your musically ignorance is not advisable...or at all impressive. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:06 PM (#3949464) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: keberoxu or, "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" ... |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:17 PM (#3949467) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Everybody will know at least one of Carole King's compositions even if its only the novelty number "( Everybody's doing)The Locomotion" or " Take Good Care of My Baby" which has become a favourite for TV baby products. And, surely, "You've Got a Friend" is very well known. And, of course, if you are of a certain age, you will - possibly - know dozens of her songs. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:37 PM (#3949469) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jeri Jack knows more than most do about folk music. He's obviously not big on pop, though. Not sure why the comments. Personally, I don't give a shit about Sedaka, don't know about any relationship, and maybe he doesn't mean all that much to her. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:46 PM (#3949474) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith If Jack doesn't know anything about major names in the history of pop/rock music, why bother making a comment, at all. |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:48 PM (#3949475) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: punkfolkrocker There was something fairly important about Sedaka.. But right now I've completely forgotten what it was and can't be arsed googling...??? Sadly, I did have an encyclopedic memory up until my late 40s... King is vastly important, but might have gone a bit wonky in her later years...??? |
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10 Sep 18 - 12:51 PM (#3949477) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Well, Neil was the second best selling pop/rock artist ( Evlis was number one) before the emergence of The Beatles. |
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10 Sep 18 - 01:01 PM (#3949478) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: meself Still - when I opened the thread, I thought I was going to find out that she was denying the fall of the Roman Empire or something ... ! |
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10 Sep 18 - 01:32 PM (#3949483) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Jerry I think she wrote Going Back as well, with Gerry Goffin, which would be more unforgivable if he had been written out of history as well. |
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10 Sep 18 - 01:42 PM (#3949485) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith And, of course, it was Gerry who wrote the words in the early years. Indeed, I bet a lot of listeners think Carole wrote the lyrics to "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" because so many young women can identify with them. |
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10 Sep 18 - 01:47 PM (#3949486) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jeri Sedaka wrote the song "Oh! Carol", and they dated in high school. It doesn't seem all that significant to me. Is who you dated back then a big deal to you? Maybe Neil Sedaka can put it in HIS book. |
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10 Sep 18 - 01:54 PM (#3949487) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith I know this is a folk music forum, but the general ignorance concerning popular music is amazing. Again, if you don't know anything about pop/rock music and its history, why open your mouth and show your ignorance. BTW, Jeri, Neil has written HIS book. |
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10 Sep 18 - 02:45 PM (#3949493) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,DTM Neil mentioned Carole in his book, I'm sure of that (having read it many years ago). The song "Oh Carol" was written using what Neil & Howie Greenfield deemed as one of the most popular girl's name at the time. They thought this would be a good marketing ploy. I don't know what Carol thought of Neil then (or what she thinks now), but she was inspired to write a song (albeit a B-side) in answer to Neil's record. Whether it was a shared joke between them or just a cheap shot to mock him, I don't know. "Oh Neil" - Carole King |
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10 Sep 18 - 02:54 PM (#3949494) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,DTM Just found this - "No one tells a story of thwarted love like Neil Sedaka. Oh! Carol was about Carole King, his high-school girlfriend when they were growing up in Brooklyn". *Taken from a 2014 article in the UK "Express" |
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10 Sep 18 - 02:55 PM (#3949495) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Johnny J Also composed one of the better Monkees hits "Pleasant Valley Sunday". "Who were they?" Some of you Mudcatters might ask? :-) A manufactured American band along the lines of the early Beatles. "Who? I can vaguely recall one of their songs but it wasn't that memorable. ...." |
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10 Sep 18 - 02:58 PM (#3949496) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Well, according to Neil they, Neil and Carole, were mates ( indeed, they dated for a while) and he was a sort of mentor to Carole in the early days ( Neil is three years older ). Neil is a fabulous musician. Virtuoso level on the piano, and voice to die for. BUT, he has upset so many people ( I think he lacks tact, for one thing) and famously Elton John dropped him as a friend. |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:09 PM (#3949499) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,henryp Under The Boardwalk? Don't you mean Up On The Roof? Then there was the classic Will You (Still) Love Me Tomorrow. |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:22 PM (#3949502) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith I guess I'm getting my "ups" and "unders" confused! |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:30 PM (#3949504) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor I mentioned "Under the Boardwalk" but I was thinking "Up on the Roof" which is a more noteworthy song, IMO. Both are written by Goffin/King. |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:36 PM (#3949506) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor "Under the Boardwalk" was written by Kenny Young and Arthur Resnick. My mistake. |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:40 PM (#3949509) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,henryp From Wikipedia; "Under the Boardwalk" is a hit pop song written by Kenny Young and Arthur Resnick and recorded by The Drifters in 1964. The opening line of the song references the Drifters' prior hit "Up on the Roof", showing the occasional thermal weakness of the rooftop getaway and setting the stage for an alternate meeting location, under the boardwalk. |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:41 PM (#3949511) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Here is great documentary about Neil. As I said previously, he was a giant star before The Beatles arrived but, then, like so many other US artists, everything went pear-shaped BUT Neil did make an amazing comeback ( inspired by Carole King's successes ) in the early 1970s. BBC Sedaka Documentary |
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10 Sep 18 - 03:54 PM (#3949514) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor "The opening line of the song references the Drifters' prior hit "Up on the Roof" That's probably why I always assumed it was Goffin/King. |
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10 Sep 18 - 05:59 PM (#3949531) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jim Dixon I'm sure most autobiographies would never get written if their authors had to be totally honest, objective, and candid. |
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10 Sep 18 - 06:28 PM (#3949539) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith But in Carole's case she has deliberately cut a person - a very important person, musically - out of her story AND anyone who knows her story knows that she has chosen to do that. As I said, she probably has " issues" with Neil but she should have been - and still should be - bigger than that. Very disappointing. |
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10 Sep 18 - 06:39 PM (#3949543) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Joe Offer I guess her Tapestry (click) album will always be one of my favorites. Can't say I've ever cared much for Sedaka, although some of his stuff can be interesting. -Joe- |
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10 Sep 18 - 07:01 PM (#3949545) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Mr Red Well, what would you prefer, folks? 1) A candid telling of the Carole/Neil story which would show neither in a good light one way or another. 2) Or Silence on the subject. I favour the latter. From all I have heard they both were part of a NY song manufacturing factory, that in itself produced somewhat derivative fare within one person's work as well as within the factory. Indeed in a book I once had, entitled "How to be a Successful Songwriter", there was a recurrent theme that went along the lines "Take a song, write new lyrics to it, then write a different tune around the new lyrics". And Neil Sedaka was one one contributor saying just that. (A chapter per songwriter - and most really recognisable names). His early work did have a sameyness quotient. Pop songs do in any given era. And didn't the BBC documentary with Neil (a classical Juliard Alumnus) have him explaining some of his songs? Curiously I recall him mentioning working with lyricists almost exclusively (if not totally). Jerry Goffin was a trained chemist according to Carole King. |
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10 Sep 18 - 07:14 PM (#3949549) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: robomatic I'm a Carole King fan. I have a copy of Tapestry on CD sommut about the place. When I was a DJ at the college radio station in the zips Goffin came out with his own album called maybe 'Back Room Blood'. It was okay. I will confess just this once and just to you guys that I have more than once confused Carole King with Carly Simon. I'm so in vain. (Yeah, she wrote it about me). |
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10 Sep 18 - 07:38 PM (#3949555) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Nick Breaking up is hard to do is an excellent song. And I prefer the slow version to the fast. Always found Neil Sedans slightly irritating. Don't know why, just something about his over bouncy slightly false persona that came across. Bit harsh I dare say. But good musician. |
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11 Sep 18 - 03:20 AM (#3949587) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Mr Red said: "Well, what would you prefer, folks? 1) A candid telling of the Carole/Neil story which would show neither in a good light one way or another. 2) Or Silence on the subject". Well, what we should have got is choice number 3! And, that choice has Carole telling the public how massively important Neil was to her musical development and her drive to be a commercial success, and simply leave out the bit where they cease being friends. They, of course, went to same school. He became the school's resident rock/pop piano player/songwriter. They would get together - even though she was very much "the kid" - and rehearse together. They would work out the chords and arrangements to the latest pop songs. He was first to get a songwriting contract, and the first to get a recording contract. She saw him have a number one hit record when his composition "Stupid Cupid" was recorded by Connie Francis, He was a huge influence on her both musically and commercially. In fact, it would be fair to say that without Neil Sedaka, there may not have been a Carole King. |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:19 AM (#3949592) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jack Campin OK, I recognize a lot of the Carole King songs mentioned here, just didn't know who did them. Sedaka is more associated eith ghastly hairdos, polyester suits and a plastic smile than anything musical in my memory. Up there with Ray Conniff in the grim LP cover gallery. |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:34 AM (#3949596) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Neil wrote terrific pop songs with a sophistication that NO OTHER pop/songwriter at the time possessed, indeed, his use of sophisticated chords was not matched by The Beatles, and then he came back-in the early 70s -and wrote some classic, sensitive singer/songwriter material. "Solitaire" is a fabulous song. Indeed, had Neil had the looks of Elvis, and not such a high - but fantastic - voice, his reputation would be much higher. |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:48 AM (#3949598) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith And! If Neil had had Gerry Goffin as his lyricist he would have written " Will you still love me tomorrow", because although Neil's lyricist Howie Greenfield, was great at writing "poppy" lyrics, Gerry wrote by far the more interesting words. |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:54 AM (#3949599) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST Neil Sedaka's voice always reminds me of the ' Not The Nine O'Clock news ' spoof of The Beegees called ' Meaningless Songs In Very High Voices ' Dave H |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:54 AM (#3949600) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Johnny J Neil Sedaka would never have got away with this song in this day and age. https://youtu.be/g9yYI-upjw4 |
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11 Sep 18 - 04:59 AM (#3949601) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Johnny J And this one by Carole King was taken off Radio station playlists after the 1989 earthquake in San Francisco. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6913KnbMpHM after a DJ inadvertently played it after a news bulletin. |
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11 Sep 18 - 05:02 AM (#3949602) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Leslie Butler Just had a look at the Wikipedia article on Sedaka, and King barely gets a mention because they never performed or composed together. While she was indeed the eponymous sweetheart in 'Oh Carol', that seems to have been constructed as a purely commercial exercise (though that doesn't stop it being a great pop song), and the 'Oh Neil' response was penned by Goffin. |
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11 Sep 18 - 05:08 AM (#3949604) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Johnny J said "Neil Sedaka would never have got away with this song in this day and age" Not true! McCartney is still singing, "She was just 17, do you know what I mean". |
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11 Sep 18 - 05:57 AM (#3949615) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Well, that Bee Gees reference is silly as Neil sang in his natural voice, whereas the Bee Gees in their disco period chose to sing in a manufactured falsetto range. |
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11 Sep 18 - 06:31 AM (#3949623) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: punkfolkrocker "From all I have heard they both were part of a NY song manufacturing factory, that in itself produced somewhat derivative fare within one person's work as well as within the factory. ..there was a recurrent theme that went along the lines "Take a song, write new lyrics to it, then write a different tune around the new lyrics". ..His early work did have a sameyness quotient. Pop songs do in any given era." .. so how is that different or inferior to any superior minded mudcatter's much lauded time honoured folk song writing tradition...????? These 1960's pop factory writers had talent and much more of an incentive to make the effort to actively come up with new tunes, or at least improved variations on those found to be most enjoyed by other folks...... Smug Folkies disdain popular songs at your peril... lest our tradition's historic songwriting deficiencies be revealed and mocked for the the dull pile of formulaic over-cloned tunes and poorly written words that they often/mostly are... |
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11 Sep 18 - 07:36 AM (#3949635) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmth Well, of course, Neil had a very deliberate approach to his composing. He wanted to write very commercial songs that sold millions. And, he achieved that. He wrote for the times. composing catchy 2min30sec songs that would appeal to teenagers. He wouldn't have seen his songs as great works of art ( after all, he was the precocious kid who could play Chopin and Bach, beautifully ) but within the musical confines of the day he did push the envelope - harmonically - quite a lot. |
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11 Sep 18 - 08:16 AM (#3949642) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor Wether his stuff was harmonically sophisticated or not it's still just a matter of taste. A lot of great, enduring songs came out of Tin Pan Alley but you'd have to put a gun to my head to make me listen to Sedaka's music at this stage in my life. Just my personal opinion. |
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11 Sep 18 - 08:18 AM (#3949643) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jack Campin this one by Carole King was taken off Radio station playlists after the 1989 earthquake in San Francisco. ("You Can Feel The Earth Move"). If you can find a copy of the BBC's programme listings magazine The Radio Times for September 11, 2001, you will see an announcement of an orchestral concert in London they intended to broadcast on Radio 3. They changed that programme at the last minute. The opening number was intended to be John Adams's Short Ride in a Fast Machine. |
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11 Sep 18 - 08:34 AM (#3949644) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,keberoxu no one else possessed the sophistication, it says back there. Ever hear of ABBA ?? |
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11 Sep 18 - 08:40 AM (#3949646) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith keberoxu please shut up, or get a sense of history! Abba didn't emerge until the early 1970s, Neil was including "sophisicated" harmonic ideas a decade earlier, and, just in case you don't know, from 1960 to 1970 was an eternity in the development of pop/rock music. |
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11 Sep 18 - 09:03 AM (#3949649) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: punkfolkrocker Over the decades I've got used to the folk music community tending to be too insular, and having a superiority complex regarding 'lesser' popular music forms... But I do still get irritated when self-important folkies consider themselves experts to make pompous judgemental pronouncements on other more widely enjoyed genres that they are so obviously ignorant of... ..at mudcat this can be a regular source of amusement... |
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11 Sep 18 - 09:16 AM (#3949650) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Dave the Gnome Funny coincidence talking of harmonies. The earliest harmony song that moved me was 'Silence is Golden' put out by the Tremeloes in 1967 when I was 14. It is still a favourite of mine and I was listening to it yesterday before I came across this thread. Small things amuse small minds I suppose :-D |
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11 Sep 18 - 09:20 AM (#3949653) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Dave the Gnome Just spotted on Wiki that the original 'Silence is Golden' was on the B side of 'Rag Doll' by the original Jersey boys, the 4 seasons. Some fine harmonies came out of that stable! |
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11 Sep 18 - 09:31 AM (#3949655) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: punkfolkrocker I've just remembered about 10 - 20 years ago I bought a CD that was an official release of Carole King's songwriting demo tapes. I recall it as just her solo with her piano... Now how would that qualify as vintage acoustic singer songwriter contemporary folk...??? |
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11 Sep 18 - 10:10 AM (#3949662) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,keberoxu please shut up. Thanks for the please. I have a sense of history -- the kind that comes from being old enough, thank you. |
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11 Sep 18 - 11:06 AM (#3949672) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: gillymor Quite right, keberoxu, you've as much right as anyone here to express your opinion and, btw, I was not criticizing a particular genre I was expressing a dislike of the music of Sedaka specifically. Some great songs, singers and songwriters came out of that scene including folks like Doc Pomus and Ben E. King along with Goffin/King. |
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11 Sep 18 - 01:40 PM (#3949701) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith This is an interesting song by Neil. It’s about his amazing come back in the early 70s after years in the wilderness. For those who weren’t around, or are not up on their pop/rock music history, the British rock invasion of 1964 virtually ended the chart success of the majority of US pop/rock musicians/bands who had enjoyed big record success prior to the arrival of The Beatles, The Stones etc. Even a giant like Roy Orbison, who had his biggest hit “ Pretty Woman” in 1964, would have to wait until the late 1980s until his next top 20 hit. BTW, As far as I can ascertain, Neil wrote the music and lyrics to this song. The Come Back Kid. |
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12 Sep 18 - 02:52 AM (#3949811) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Mr Red Well, what we should have got is choice number 3! I didn't offer 3 choices. Because Carole King doesn't need to tell the world about Sedaka. He (and you) can (have) do it in a totally unbiased way. I couldn't, I would be sarcastic. |
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12 Sep 18 - 05:14 AM (#3949831) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Oh dear, have you read anything that I have written? Read the following slowly and try to get your brain around the contents! PLEASE! Carol Klein would very probably have never have become Carole King but for Neil Sedaka. Have you got that? He was her major inspiration in writing pop songs. Neil was THE pop star at her school. She would go around to his house and watch him work out pop music arrangements. He watched him write hit songs for a range of R&B and pop singers. She saw him have a number one record with Connie Francis's version of "Stupid Cupid". She watched him get a songwriting and performing deal. How, in any reality,could she write all of that out of her autobiography. To call her dishonest, is the least you can do. |
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12 Sep 18 - 10:36 AM (#3949915) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Here is a piece that I found on the web written by a Roger Friedman. I also forgot to mention that Carole got her publishing contract because of Neil recommending her to his music publisher. Just today, I was talking to a friend of mine who interviewed Carole and she wasn't keen to have mentioned that she was once Carol Klein. She seems to be a woman with a lot of issues. This is an extract from an article by Roger Friedman... "The worst interview experience I ever had with a celebrity–and there have been thousands–was with one person I really wanted to like. But in the early 90s, to promote one of her post-success albums, Carole King brought her mother with her to the Paramount Hotel for our lunch. She said, “I figured if I brought my mother, you wouldn’t ask me anything personal.” It was a nightmare. King wouldn’t talk about her Brill Building years or even “Tapestry,” her seminal, watershed album of 1971. She mostly wanted to discuss conservation in Idaho, a subject New Yorkers–this was for the New York Daily News–didn’t much care about. She also indicated that she didn’t care much for Neil Sedaka, her childhood friend and teen songwriting buddy from the Brill era. When the story was published, she fired her publicist, a very sweet woman. Later, Neil Sedaka told me a story. His adult son had run into Carole on the street and introduced himself. King responded: “Tell your father to stop talking about me in interviews.” Nice. Now we have a new memoir from King and after reading “A Natural Woman,” I felt like I needed a Xanax. It made me think about creativity and the people who have it, why geniuses are crazy, and completely self-absorbed. Basically, King marries her childhood sweetheart, Gerry Goffin, and they have tons of hits with music publisher Don Kirshner at the Brill Building. There’s almost no mention of Sedaka..." |
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12 Sep 18 - 11:48 AM (#3949933) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Jack Campin Music autobiographies are such a generally dire genre that I didn't need to be warned off this one (though the absence of anything about Neil Sedaka has to be a plus). Good ones? Charles Mingus, Hector Berlioz - neither of them something you'd read for factual information. Who else? |
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12 Sep 18 - 12:05 PM (#3949934) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,DTM Some interesting posts above. Thanks to Leslie Butler for pointing out that Goffin wrote the Oh Neil lyrics. (Confirmed on the photo of the single on YouTube). Neil also was a founder member of the Tokens who had a hit with The Lion Sleeps Tonight. I actually agree with a lot of the points made above, the good, the bad and the ugly. Re Neil, yes he had a cheesy image and sounds sugary however, he did have a great knack for writing good pop songs of the two eras when he peaked. IMO, the bridge in Breaking Up Is Hard To Do is a perfect example of Neil at his (pop) song-writing best. Re. Carole, she and Gerry composed propably several of my all-time favourite pop songs. I think it's a shame she didn't acknowledge Neil in her bio however, it's her book and she can say what she wants in it nevertheless, It would be a bit of an oversight for any independent biographer writing her story to miss out Neil's involvement. |
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12 Sep 18 - 12:14 PM (#3949936) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith It's amazing how superficial people are. Rather than judging Sedaka on his talent, they would rather judge him on his image, because that is what it seems to comes down to. Again, here we have a major pop/rock talent who was probably the first composer to introduced sophisticated harmonica ideas into early rock music. I composer who had hit songs recorder by great R&B great in the mid-1950s, and 50 years later, his composition "Is This the Way to Amarillo", was the best selling UK single of 2005, and about the same time his composition "Solitaire" was a huge hit in the States. Interestingly, a friend was telling me that Neil is featured in the stage musical "Beautiful: The Carole King Story". Now, there's thought. A musical based on Neil Sedaka's life couldn't fail. |
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12 Sep 18 - 12:45 PM (#3949943) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: David Carter (UK) Carole King is a superb songwriter, at least was. There are half a dozen classic songs on Tapestry alone. You've got a friend was covered by James Taylor before she released it herself, and he must have some credibility in folk circles (having been on Transatlantic Sessions for instance). Carole King is an excellent songwriter, even if some of her material was not to your taste. Neil Sedaka I would not put at the same level. Ok, "Oh Carole", "Breaking Up is Hard To Do", "Laughter in the Rain", are harmless and fairly catchy pop ditties. But, please, not "Solitaire". If Hell has lifts, Solitaire is what is played in them for all eternity. It belongs alongside "I've never been to Me", and "All Kinds of Everything" in the pantheon of pop horrors. |
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12 Sep 18 - 01:41 PM (#3949957) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith David Carter, you are going to have to explain why you don't think Solitaire is a great popular song, because the people who do think it's a great song are legion. It's been covered by everybody from Elvis to Sheryl Crow to The Carpenters. Of course, you can dislike any song you like, but Solitaire is a beautiful crafted song with a well told story that, sadly, many will be able to identify with. I would recommend anybody and everybody to watch the BBC Documentary about Neil. I bet you find an eye-opener, and, if you are a musician, very informative and educational. I've also included a live performance that might, for some, show another side of Neil. BBC Documentary Standing on the Inside |
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12 Sep 18 - 03:44 PM (#3949995) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Jim Dixon: "...be totally honest, objective, and candid." How to fail in show business without really trying. The "Ryder Smith" mansion set from Where the Boys Are was at the end of my parent's block in Ft. Lauderdale. We all knew what Neil Sedaka and Connie Francis did for a living long before we ever heard of Carole King. FYI: Carole's beef with Neil is because Leba is friends with Ivana and dotes on Ivanka but Carole likes Hillary. The only thing they all agree on is Donald is icky. And this was all before 9 Nov. 2016. Grade school social politics. |
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12 Sep 18 - 03:56 PM (#3950000) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: voyager mudcat message board needs a 'delete thread' option. this discussion is mostly pointless. voyager |
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12 Sep 18 - 04:24 PM (#3950011) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith No voyager, you've getting confused. It's YOU who are mostly pointless! |
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12 Sep 18 - 04:42 PM (#3950014) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Interestingly, I was talking to a friend of mine recently and he has writen lots of books on rock and pop music, and, has read every pop/rock autobiography known to man. And he was surprised that I was so disappointed with Carole for “ editing out” almost reference to Neil in her book. I guess he has read so many autobiographies that he has seen this sort of thing over and over. The problem with Carole’s attitude is that we denied the full story, and, to make matters worse, the full story of the years where she was learning her craft and breaking it to the record/publishing business. And, that part of her story is close to meaningless without reference to Neil’s contribution. Again, I would recommend Mudcatters to watch the Sedaka documentary on Youtube as it is an very entertaining look at the early days of Rock/pop music and having Neil sit at the piano and discuss how he created his hits and arrangements is - for musicians - fascinating. |
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12 Sep 18 - 05:25 PM (#3950024) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: Mr Red But, please, not "Solitaire". Lyrics not by Neil. The documentary I saw both his principle lyricists were interviewed. The Solitaire lyricist said he was "In a dark place" when he wrote that, no other explanation. Neil also explained the mechanisms of various songs, references to genres from blues to classical. It gives even the songs you feel are jaded an aura. There was an intellect way beyond the banality of pop. He told his story and not a word about Carole King. Ironic eh? |
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12 Sep 18 - 05:37 PM (#3950027) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,DTM Maybe Neil was asked to comment on Carole's bio but he deKleined. |
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12 Sep 18 - 05:58 PM (#3950030) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,Tunesmith Neil devotes a chapter to Carole in his autobiography, and, of course, Neil's impact on Carole was far huge, but not so the reverse! Also, in the BBC documentary Neil had no control over the editing. Also, in the documentary lyricist Phil Cody talk at length about the creation of Solitaire which was very much autobiographical based on personal experience. |
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12 Sep 18 - 06:18 PM (#3950037) Subject: RE: Carole King rewrites history! From: GUEST,henryp Amarillo - went on to become the UK's best-selling single of 2005. This success was due to the video made by the popular - and perhaps the most popular - British comedian Peter Kay. From Wikipedia; The song was recorded by Tony Christie and released in the UK in November 1971, initially reaching number 18 in the UK Singles Chart. However, it was a substantially bigger hit at that time across Continental Europe, notably in Germany and Spain, where it made number one. In the U.S., however, Christie's record stalled at #121 on the Bubbling Under the Hot 100. Following the re-issue of Christie's version in 2005 in aid of the charity Comic Relief, promoted with a video featuring comedian Peter Kay, the song gained even greater prominence, reaching number 1 in the UK. |