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BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US

06 Dec 18 - 09:52 AM (#3965092)
Subject: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

I am alerted by an article in The Atlantic that Trump's declaration of a national emergency (which remains in effect until Sept. 2019) is actually the equivalent of a coup to make our Constitution meaningless.


There is a vast set of laws, a parallel universe of power that gives the President dictator status beyond anything I have heard of except the 3rd Reich when he decided to declre a national emergency.

Some of those new powers are;
To shut down wire communications and internet.
To freeze Americans bank accounts
To deploy the military and use them as a domestic police force.

This needs to be rethought by Congress but will they?

America is in a declared national emergency right now and for a year at a time unless the President signs a new one.


06 Dec 18 - 10:10 AM (#3965100)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

So far Trump seized personal control of Tariffs through an obscure national security provision and deployed the Military IN the USA with the declared National EMERGENCY.

btw Trump now has the power to have Congress meet only one every six months. That leaves the Courts as his only check. What are they going to do, fight the military?

These are the kind of scenarios which make robomatic's claim 'that it can't happen here' because we have institutions moot.


This is what I meant when I said "it is worse than you think".


06 Dec 18 - 10:24 AM (#3965103)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/

Joe, I bet this comes as a surprise.


06 Dec 18 - 11:06 AM (#3965108)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Iains

It will go very quiet when the klingon is arrested.


06 Dec 18 - 11:22 AM (#3965111)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

The Pretorian Guard will belay any arrest of royals by the military splinter group and all will die with honor for Caesar. Long live the people's front of Judea.


06 Dec 18 - 12:23 PM (#3965116)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Iains

Samson will sort you all out, regardless of the people's front.


06 Dec 18 - 12:47 PM (#3965122)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Not even resectioning his scalp will save Samson's hair or mind.

Who can rid me of this meddlesome prat?


/


06 Dec 18 - 01:00 PM (#3965124)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

"A whore, a whore, my kingdom for a whore"
quote?


06 Jan 19 - 09:30 AM (#3970088)
Subject: RE: BS: The FAKE state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Although Trump declared a National emergency by tweet he never followed up with the required paperwork !


There is no National emergency to order Troops to the border, but it happened anyway.


He has again threatened to declare a national emergency to fund his wall in order to do an end run around Congressional control of all funding.


07 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM (#3970372)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mossback

Constitutional law expert and Harvard professor Lawrence Lessig dismissed President Donald Trump’s characterization of the immigrant situation at the Mexican border as a crisis on Sunday, then said the real national emergency was “this president.”


07 Jan 19 - 11:07 AM (#3970373)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

One thing I know for sure is that we now really have the kind of corrupt government that we used to say we had, but didn't yet.


07 Jan 19 - 02:20 PM (#3970412)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Iains

Strange that the US deployed troops to Gabon recently and early today there was a failed coup. Could be coincidence of course!


07 Jan 19 - 08:55 PM (#3970479)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: keberoxu

Can you imagine how all of this
is going to be summarized in order to read
out of the history books?

I picture students of the future scratching their heads
and wondering what on earth ailed those people.


07 Jan 19 - 09:25 PM (#3970484)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

I picture future students not needing history books because they are connected to the Akashic field. If you do not use or know about the Akashic field consult Ervin Lazlo.


08 Jan 19 - 06:53 AM (#3970537)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mrrzy

Donuel, was it you who redefined "hors de combat" as Camp Followers?


09 Jan 19 - 01:05 PM (#3970799)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Sorry not me. I do not recognize either.
When I read old threads I am often surprised how seldom I recognize my own writing. I write from the right brain and read with the left.


10 Jan 19 - 03:59 AM (#3970895)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Ebbie

I'm glad that you somewhat retracted your statement, Donuel, because we are NOT in a declared state of emergency. If that day comes - and it well might- in all likelihood it will trigger immediate court action.

I was pondering what Donald Trump will be called in the history books. Given his instinctual response, it may be 'Mafia Don'.


10 Jan 19 - 04:23 AM (#3970903)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Joe Offer

The "ongoing state of emergency in US," is that we have a psychotic President. Having an opposition majority in the House of Representatives is a big help, but will it be enough to allow us to avoid disaster? And will the 2020 election resolve and heal our emergency?
-Joe-


10 Jan 19 - 04:56 AM (#3970919)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mr Red

In the run up to the presidential elections my comment, in this parish, was "Be afraid America, be very afraid" - because of experience with Brexshit.

In the context of 2020 that still applies. The world (as we know it) has morphed into a divisive culture. Maybe it always was in areas we didn't reside, we wouldn't know. And the one thing about change is that when predicting the future - it is based on past experience, which barely applies to change. The only saving grace is: Fakebook's disgrace - we know some of the triggers now.



But..............


10 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM (#3970940)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

I'm glad you are super sharp and well informed.


I only outlived Leonardo D'Vinci today without the accomplishment.
My Mona Lisa is different than Lenny's in that it has eyebrows.


10 Jan 19 - 07:45 PM (#3970988)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Felipa

I'm not going to look up that Atlantic article again, Ebbie, but I think what Donuel referred to is a long past state of emergency that was never rescinded.


10 Jan 19 - 08:09 PM (#3970991)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

He tweeted the emergency early last year and that doesn't count. He has our attention now.


11 Jan 19 - 03:26 AM (#3971007)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Ebbie

USA Today, September 14, 2017:"President Trump has become the third president to renew a post-9/11 emergency proclamation, stretching what was supposed to be a temporary state of national emergency after the 2001 terror attacks into its 17th year."

My point is/was that conflating today's mess to the previous is a little misleading. Our national nightmare is bad enough without borrowing extraneous stuff.


11 Jan 19 - 08:56 AM (#3971066)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

With 28 concurrent National emergencies (going on at the same time) who is conflating?
Granted it is confusing but the Trump border emergency that is threatened is a way to steal Defense Dept. funds for Trump's political use and serve up $ to private contractors of his choice.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politics/national-emergencies-trump-opioid/index.html


11 Jan 19 - 03:14 PM (#3971139)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: EBarnacle

If Agent Orange declares a state of emergency at the border we can only hope it stays at a level equivalent to the post Maria activity.

I worry more about his willingness to accept the results of the 2020 election if it goes against him. Recall his noncommittal answers to the same question in 2016.


11 Jan 19 - 08:09 PM (#3971191)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: robomatic

Try reading "The Storm Before The Storm" by Mike Duncan.


It will not help you feel better but it will sort of demonstrate what I've been calling "The Futility of Insight"


11 Jan 19 - 08:30 PM (#3971193)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Even if there is such a thing as the futility of insight or the destruction of all common sense, the random consequences of our Quantum universe would allow 'we the people' to win sometimes.
The greedy pull of income inequality will snap any rope, cable or wall under enough pressure and time.


14 Feb 19 - 08:15 PM (#3976764)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

It has begun. A DECLARATION of EMERGENCY is declared by tRump
I saw it comin


15 Feb 19 - 04:38 PM (#3976947)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mrrzy

And the lawsuits begin...


16 Feb 19 - 06:13 AM (#3977029)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: gillymor

That racist shrew Coulter finally said something I could agree with yesterday when she tweeted that our "president" is an idiot.


16 Feb 19 - 06:35 AM (#3977031)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: gillymor

Actually Coulter's tweet read something like "the real emergency is that the President is an idiot" which makes it more relevant to this thread. We do agree but we got there from different directions. Now, I need a bath.


16 Feb 19 - 07:10 AM (#3977042)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Obama averaged the fewest executive orders since Cleveland
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/
Jan 23, 2017 - Obama issued only 35 executive orders per year in office. Other types include presidential memoranda or proclamations, Yet President Numbbrain says because of Obama's abuse of executive orders he must now do what is not necessary.
Trump has already the highest number of executive orders in history


16 Feb 19 - 12:14 PM (#3977104)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Oh, welcome home gillymor


16 Feb 19 - 03:09 PM (#3977135)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Bonzo3legs

I suggest that a British gunboat be dispatched immediately!!!


16 Feb 19 - 03:45 PM (#3977148)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Prez order #13,000 no gunboats are allowed in public.
Prez order #13,001   blind all the tailors.
Prez order #13,002    the emperor shall have no clothes.


18 Jan 21 - 09:43 AM (#4088588)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

25,000 National Guard troops are protecting against a take over by Donald Trump and his hopelessly stupid and niaeve base.

you can be sure Trump is still getting his cut from his giveaways to the rich.


18 Jan 21 - 10:06 AM (#4088591)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

The Big Lie began with crowd size and ended with election results.
The big lie is used by all despots and dictators from Hitler on down.
By their lies you shall know them.


18 Jan 21 - 10:25 AM (#4088598)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: gillymor

If we're going back beyond the beginning of the single term of the most corrupt and incompetent president in our history I would cite "Birtherism" as his first big lie. It served as a springboard for his political career.


18 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM (#4088710)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: McGrath of Harlow

I never understood how Birtherism was supposed to work, anyway.

There's nothing in the Constitution about people having been born in the United States. It doesn't say "native-born", it says "natural born", which just means you inherit your citizenship at birth from a parent rather than from being naturalised later. The actual birth could be on Mars.


19 Jan 21 - 07:36 AM (#4088750)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Shhh- you might open a can of worms for the supream court to define and interpret 'natural'. Don jr might someday attack someone for being an 'in vitro baby' or a frozen embryo or even a clone. Cesarianism vs vaginal birth? Division can take many forms. Some may argue that Trump created the Birthday Party on the heels of the Tea Party :^/

Biden will avoid immigration reform in any broad sweeping way. An improvement is the most he will get. Voting rights will be healing.


19 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM (#4088772)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mrrzy

One. More. Day.


19 Jan 21 - 10:19 AM (#4088782)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Mr Red

One More Day

And Heave
And push
And ...................


20 Jan 21 - 01:32 PM (#4088960)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Re Inauguration Day, what the rest of the world needs is the U.N. (re-housed in England) to gain global influence & the U.S. to lose it - the (non-native) American way produces revoltingly inhumane inequality & greed; my WalkaboutsVerse poem "There Is A U.N."


20 Jan 21 - 02:24 PM (#4088968)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: punkfolkrocker

"There Is A U.N."

There Is A U.N.,
and U.N. rhymes with Big Ben.
So let's rehouse the U.N. in Englen.....


20 Jan 21 - 02:57 PM (#4088972)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Doug Chadwick

Why re-house in England when the UN is already set up in Geneva, Nairobi, Vienna and the Hague?

DC


20 Jan 21 - 05:59 PM (#4088998)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Stilly River Sage

You really need to stop finding any excuse you can to push that "poetry." It's out of place here. And it's not like you're peddling anything new - the times I've looked you're recycling old stuff.


21 Jan 21 - 03:52 AM (#4089043)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Backwoodsman

When WAV can equal THIS, his stuff will be worth reading. Until then.....


22 Jan 21 - 07:59 AM (#4089209)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Research was involved in ths poem which is always good however there was no mention of the fact that our saving grace was that our recent populist fascist was an idiot. The aggressor in the role of VICTIM will rise someday again but may be smarter next time, I disagree that Democracy is always the automatic winner as implied in the poem.


22 Jan 21 - 08:13 AM (#4089213)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Im fact Hitler's first coup 'the putch' failed and people died'
The second time was more deliberate and eventually worked.
We have to stand guard and not allow the big lie to get a foothold.
A 23 year old poet can be forgiven for being pollyannaish and niaeve.
The truth deserves a wiser spokesperson and not a cheerleader..


22 Jan 21 - 08:17 AM (#4089216)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Shall we lean forward or turn the page to forgive and forget
We let Trump be be Trump and now we live an a violent regret.


22 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM (#4089219)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

The self proclaimed victim will rise again and will say They are trying to exterminate us.
In fact extermination is nestled quiety in his thoughts until it is unleashed by him.


22 Jan 21 - 08:41 AM (#4089221)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Steve Shaw

"A 23 year old poet can be forgiven for being pollyannaish and niaeve.
The truth deserves a wiser spokesperson and not a cheerleader.."

How wrong can you be. The young woman was inspirational and a breath of fresh air. Perhaps you're jealous because she can write poetry and you can't. Sheesh.


22 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM (#4089232)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: robomatic

Don'l you seem to be doing your own call and response.

Regarding the youthful poet lauriat:

Please provide a head to midriff shot of yourself in mustard coat with ravelled coif.

History shall judge!


22 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM (#4089277)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Backwoodsman

”A 23 year old poet can be forgiven for being pollyannaish and niaeve.
The truth deserves a wiser spokesperson and not a cheerleader.."

How wrong can you be. The young woman was inspirational and a breath of fresh air. Perhaps you're jealous because she can write poetry and you can't. Sheesh.”


Don’t bother, Steve. A Philistine will always be a Philistine.


22 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM (#4089346)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

The reasons and points were stated but disregarded by people who are distracted by polemics. There will be more dangers and failures to come, is not inspirational news but valid all the same. I found Churchill more inspirational, and he didn't use air quotes.
I favor young talent, especially when it is also correct like young Einstien. While I agree on the whole I do disagree with the ending'
Frankly, sliced bread will have more longevity than THE poem
or opinions.


22 Jan 21 - 05:55 PM (#4089349)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Lincln had the civl war, Wilson had the pandemic, Roosevelt hadthe depression and World War, Kennedy had the cold war, LBJ had unprecedented civil andsocial strife.
Biden had the all but World War.


22 Jan 21 - 05:58 PM (#4089350)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: punkfolkrocker

If she was a cowgirl, would she be a poet lariat...???


22 Jan 21 - 06:20 PM (#4089355)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

groanworthy


22 Jan 21 - 06:30 PM (#4089359)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Steve Shaw

There is no "all but world war," much as you love incorrectly invoking Hitler. And Churchill was an arsehole, responsible for war crimes. Dresden. And for the pointless death of my 19-year-old Uncle Jimmy at Suvla Bay. Just look that one up. So bugger off, why don't you.


22 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM (#4089362)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: robomatic

We're coming up on the 75the anniversary of Dresden, SS, if you want to make that a thread topic. I was thinking about it. Was going to invoke Kurt Vonnegut but you may have a more 'inside' take.

As to Churchill, he has a lot to answer for, bad and good, over a very long span of time. One of my friends will brook no criticisms of Churchill, and I'm 90% with him. But there's the (sea) battle of Coronel, Gallipoli, and many items that a Yank might not be on top of. I guess we could have a thread just for that. These are eternal subjects, kind of like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

As to the 'ongoing state of emergency in US' I don't think the OP really was convincing, but hey, he was here to bash the Former Occupant. I'm feeling a lot more 'Sing Sing Sing' right now.


22 Jan 21 - 06:55 PM (#4089365)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Steve Shaw

Cheers, Robo. It was fine to find Churchill "inspirational" 70 years ago but we are now in a position to review his legacy somewhat more objectively. We booted him out as soon as the war ended, wisely, lest we forget, mainly because he was a shite political leader. He was sexist, racist and misogynist and was responsible for many a military balls-up that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths by dint of his total lack of military acumen on the ground, over decades. Including my great uncle Jimmy. Bejaysus, I'm biased, but that's life.


22 Jan 21 - 07:10 PM (#4089367)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: robomatic

He is worth holding up as an example because of his power with words and his ability to hold the stage. By our judgements know we can relate to where we're going and who we're going there with.

I am under the impression that Churchill was involved in instigating the U.S. CIA overthrow of Mossadegh, but I've only read one book about it, All The Shah's Men, and that was 20 years ago.


22 Jan 21 - 07:15 PM (#4089370)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: keberoxu

The striking thing for me about this thread is its age: three years.

Call me pessimistic,
but I fear things will get worse before they get better in the US.
Such deep divisions, such entrenched attitudes,
and an awful lot of flammable material in the metaphorical tinderbox.


22 Jan 21 - 08:53 PM (#4089385)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Keb, its refreshing to read your factual, truthful and honest post.

It is quite unlike your average brit post thats designed to intimidate but fails. Steve I would prefer to bless your war dead than whatever you think I would do. In the honourable catagory Jack Campin is ahead of you. Get some rest or sink in stress.

Government workers are already surprised at the speed Biden is going, hitting the ground running already at light speed bordering on ludicrous speed. He may even go to plaid.


22 Jan 21 - 09:58 PM (#4089393)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: robomatic

I have been watching Biden's statement on the emergency economic stimulus package he is signing, 1.7 Trillion in scope. Oddly enough it is the BBC TV channel taking the trouble to show his entire statement.


23 Jan 21 - 07:30 AM (#4089455)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: McGrath of Harlow

Not really. That's what the BBC News tends to do. That's what news channels are supposed to do.


23 Jan 21 - 10:29 AM (#4089486)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

US Media laws that need to be reversed is the Reagan [fairness] law having to do with media reporting. The large print giveth and the small print taketh away. Also the law that makes it legal for banking CEO's to LIE. Those and other laws have allowed FOX to broadcast public service announcements which are lies.
FOX has to abide by basic laws of truth and stop being a clearing house for domestic terrorism, KKK and manic schizophrenics.
Reversing 40 year old laws that undermine truth telling is a current need for peace.


23 Jan 21 - 11:56 AM (#4089508)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: McGrath of Harlow

I do dislike the bad tempered posts and continuing personal sniping matches some people indulge in.
............
Free speech is tricky. As Fox News (and its even worse clones) demonstrates, when misused it can be extraordinarily damaging. Maybe there could be some variant of libel law which would penalise offences against truth, rather than against people.

One defence against the barrage of lies ought to be the professional dignity of journalists, who generally enter into the profession with some sense of wishing to deal in facts and truthtelling. What gets in the way of that is the imbalance of power in all kinds of media.


23 Jan 21 - 12:04 PM (#4089512)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

That is something to think about regarding libel changes


23 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM (#4089591)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

Old man Potter wanted to eat the tiny Baily Savings and Loan
Old man Walgreen devoured Rexall and Rite Aid it's told
Old man Sam ate Mom's and Pop's by the truckload
Now Wall mart-green will dispense vaccine
that got too warm and is way too old.
There's another hunger of the poor and cold
They've been down so long they wish death upon everyone
Armageddonist vs anti armeggeddonist is the civil war to come
Race wars and Face wars have police on the run
Amid disease we forgot about having fun
I didn't notice the poet write his very last one.
Or the homeless eat the last palm oil nutrition free crumb.
The wealthy have their island and luxuriate in the sun


23 Jan 21 - 05:32 PM (#4089593)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: punkfolkrocker

donny - for some odd reason you have recently worked yourself up
into an anti Brit mood..

So in response to your 'self indulgent [*big clue]' poetry
and question to us Brits in another thread..

what does yank rhyme with *...???


23 Jan 21 - 06:07 PM (#4089598)
Subject: RE: BS: The ongoing state of emergency in US
From: Donuel

In Rome the Ceasar was the leader but the Senate was the power by Constitution and law. To overthrow the Senate was unthinkable until Julius declared himself a god and ruled over the Senate. However the true power wasn't Ceasar or the Senate but rather it was the mob.
Senator Byrd and the Roman Republic
The passing of Senator Robert C. Byrd from the American political scene also marks the departure of a great American character. This fiddle-playing high school graduate who earned a law degree at night (in 1963) and a college degree via correspondence courses (in 1994) regularly quoted the Bible, the classics, and large swaths of memorized poetry on the floor of the Senate was also a historian of the institution he loved most: The United States Senate.

Curiously, his reverence for the Senate and fierce defense of its constitutional role resulted in a most remarkable Government book on ancient Rome: The Senate of the Roman Republic: Addresses on the History of Roman Constitutionalism.
He would have much to say about the mob storming the Senate with murderous intentions based on the orders of a Ceasar.