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28 Dec 99 - 01:10 AM (#154723) Subject: Bulgine Run From: CBjames What is a bulgine?? "Clear away the Track and let the Bulgine Run" The song is obviously (he said with such surety - yo ho) a square-rigger sail hauling song. But the Judy Collins {?} lyrics of the 1960s indicated "off to Greenland for to catch the whale". The Digitrad Lyrics appear more involved in freighting than whaling. Does this song have UK roots? And pray tell what IS a Bulgine???
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28 Dec 99 - 01:28 AM (#154726) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: Margo Hugill says that "Bulgine" was an American slang term for a railway engine. The two versions he lists differ; one as a capstan shantey and the other as a halyard shantey. Yo ho! Margo |
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28 Dec 99 - 02:49 AM (#154735) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: Metchosin "Sharp says that the air is a variant of the Irish folk-song "Shule Agra" and the "low back car" would support this origin. The probability is that some Irish sailor, ashore on liberty in Mobile, sang "Shule Agra" in a water-front saloon. It pleased the ear of the negroes hanging about outside; and the next day they sang what they could remember while screwing home the great bales of cotton in some Liverpool ship's hold. Negro fashion, they put in the rattling sucession of 16th notes, and added "bulgine" for good measure. The crew of the ship heard and liked it, perhaps without recognizing its origin; and took it back with them to Liverpool. There the crew of the Margaret Evans, a well known American packet-ship, lying in the Clarence or the Waterloo Dock, picked it up and fitted in the name of their ship, and took it back to New York, with Liza Lee and the bulgine still in close conjunction with the low-backed car, to the puzzlement of future folk-lorists!" (Colcord, Johana C. 1924. Roll and Go) |
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28 Dec 99 - 03:09 AM (#154739) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: Joe Offer I guess you know that the lyrics for the song are in our database here (click) and here (click). Click here to see what the Traditional Ballad Index says about this song. We had quite a discussion about this song a while back, but I can't find it - guess it didn't have "Bulgine" in the thread title, but maybe Barry or one of the other rowdy sea shanty guys can find it for you. I think it was said in the discussion that the song was about a train engine used on the docks. Metchosin's explanation sounds every bit as credible, but who knows? -Joe Offer |
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28 Dec 99 - 06:42 AM (#154756) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: martin is bulgine not another term for tea? |
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28 Dec 99 - 10:55 AM (#154786) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) here is the old thread. T. |
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28 Dec 99 - 11:52 AM (#154809) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: Okiemockbird It isn't the bullgine, but the "track" that seems to be incongruous in a merchant marine context. But a shanty refrain probably didn't have to make sense in order to pace the work, anyhow. T. |
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28 Dec 99 - 02:58 PM (#154887) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: CBjames Well this is amazing! Just shows to go ya what you won't know if you don't ask! Thanks all! & T, I agree with you that a work song doesn't have to have lyrics that make sense in order to work. I have used a lot of nonsense lyrics when splitting wood. jb |
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28 Dec 99 - 04:26 PM (#154920) Subject: RE: Bulgine Run From: dick greenhaus The connection between railroads and sailors in this shanty isn't unique: See "Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo". A lot of railroaders/sailors,cowboys and loggers were part of an unspecialized labor pool, and shifted jobs from time to time. |
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28 Dec 99 - 05:43 PM (#154942) Subject: Lyr Add: CLEAR DE TRACK LET DE BULGINE RUN From: Barry Finn Whall claims this was taken from a Minstrel ditty. "The words & the tune of the 1st part were taken straight from the music hall, but the chorus was altered in tune & music. In the music hall version the chorus was":
"Walkee up, O walkee up, O walkee up, O way He list a version I haven't seen or heard before & it's very interesting in it's identifing from the Bible, I'll post some
O de worl' was made in 6 days & ended on de 7
Ch: To me hi-rig-a-jig & a low back car
But de masons struck for wages, an dey would not work
Now Adam was de firs' man an' Eve was de oder
O, way down in the garden in the garden where the apple hang low
Young Joseph was de favorite an' eat his mush whole
Ole Moses lick de Pharaoh an drown him in de sea
Lil David was the boss when he finis up Goliah
You may talk about your yaller gals an round the corner Sallies
Daniel in de den done sleep all de night
Jonah was a hungry man cos he eat de whale
Dat's all de fur dat de story goes Barry |
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28 Dec 99 - 06:26 PM (#154952) Subject: Lyr Add: OH RUN, LET THE BULLGINE RUN (shanty) From: Dave (the ancient mariner) OH RUN, LET THE BULLGINE RUN (halliards Shanty) Derisive and somewhat primitive slang onboard ships for an engine. Possibly picked up from Negro American slang and used by sailors. The steam version was run from a "Donkey" boiler, and the term carried over to steamships who had Donkeymen as a rating for the engine room staff. Donkey Greasers and Greasers, Stokers became Oilers or Mechanical assistants when the INFERNAL (internal) combustion engine engine was invented.
Oh we'll run all night till the morning Oh we sailed all day to Mobile Bay Chorus: Oh we sailed all night across the Bight (Australia) Chorus: Oh we'll run from Dover to Callais Chorus: Oh drive her captain drive her Chorus: Oh captain make her nose blood Chorus: She's a dandy packet and a flier too Chorus: With a dandy skipper and a dandy crew Chorus: Oh we'll run all night till the morning Chorus:
Phew! pass the rum mates I'm outa breath..... Cordially,Yours,Aye. Dave |
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02 Sep 13 - 05:57 AM (#3555290) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Don S As remarked in a Minstrel show in UK in the 40's: "Surely a Bulgine is a male version of a Hengine?" |
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02 Sep 13 - 06:51 AM (#3555297) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST http://www.lexic.us/definition-of/bulgine |
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02 Sep 13 - 01:39 PM (#3555418) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine?t lots of piccie From: Leadfingers Clicky No definition , but lots of piccies |
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02 Sep 13 - 02:30 PM (#3555431) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST The following is from http://www.lexic.us/definition-of/bulgine which Leadfingers was kind enpough to turn into a Clicky. Literary usage of Bulgine Below you will find example usage of this term as found in modern and/or classical literature: 1. Punch by Mark Lemon, Henry Mayhew, Tom Taylor, Shirley Brooks, Francis Cowley Burnand, Owen Seaman (1870) "bulgine with him means " Engine ; " but I somehow fancy that he imagines it to be French. I remark that everyone (with the exception of such ..." 2. The Writings in Prose and Verse of Rudyard Kipling by Rudyard Kipling (1904) "He said to me after breakfast only this mornin' 'ow he thanked his Maker, on all fours, that he wouldn't see nor smell nor thumb a runnin' bulgine till the ..." 3. A Dictionary of Slang, Jargon & Cant: Embracing English, American, and Anglo by Albert Barrère, Charles Godfrey Leland (1889) "The negro minstrel word bulgine, for a locomotive, appears to be a compound, the first part of which is derived rather from bulge than "bull," as implying ..." |
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03 Sep 13 - 04:49 AM (#3555584) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: MGM·Lion The word is in Chambers Dictionary, and no doubt other good dictionaries. I often wonder why people start "Help: what is a ...?" threads without just trying looking the word up first. ~M~ |
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23 Mar 15 - 11:45 AM (#3696183) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST The John Bull was the first locomotive in America. Built in Newcastle and ran in the 1830's. Hence, clear away the track. The loco is in a museum and still steamed every decade or so. Check youtube John Bull Engine. |
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23 Mar 15 - 06:16 PM (#3696256) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# Let The Bullgine Run (Roger McGuinn) on YouTube Click the title up near the top of the page. |
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24 Mar 15 - 11:42 AM (#3696468) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: BillE The first locomotive to be operated in America was the Stourbridge Lion, made in Stourbridge (UK) in 1828, shipped to the US where its first official run was on 8th August 1829. Details are on Wikipedia. John Bull did not appear till 1831, but it was made by Robert Stephenson & Co. We are proud of the Lion in Stourbridge! |
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30 Jun 16 - 10:39 PM (#3798527) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch M: The word is in Chambers Dictionary, and no doubt other good dictionaries. I often wonder why people start "Help: what is a ...?" threads without just trying looking the word up first. Why ask why? OP: What is a bulgine?? GUEST,Don S: As remarked in a Minstrel show in UK in the 40's: "Surely a Bulgine is a male version of a Hengine?" (see 02 Sep 13 - 05:57 AM, above) As you were. |
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30 Jun 16 - 10:46 PM (#3798528) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch The American circus does have a different back-story for the origins of the word "bulgine." (fwiw it's not in my two editions of Webster's. Go figure.) The UK quote above is lifted from an old minstrelsy comedic routine known as a Locomotive Lecture. It was generally performed as a companion piece to the Locomotive dance that imitated the new steam engines. See also Lighter's old post here: detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=2686761 Dancer George "Great Western" was one of the first to develop the form. He was also the father of the Star Sisters, Lucille & Helen Western, who followed into minstrelsy after his death. John Wilkes Booth supposedly carried Helen Western's cabinet card in his pocket. William M. "Billy" Whitlock toured with the "Great Western" in 1843 as a member of the Kentucky Minstrels (banjo & comic lecture.) By 1845 Whitlock added his own dancing for the Virginia Minstrels tour. It was one of his regular routines for several years. Both ensembles spent part of their 1843-45 seasons in London so 'bulgine' ("Great Western" &c) may be a play to British audiences but the 'real' etymology would have been more like Yogi Berra meets Abbott & Costello. |
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01 Jul 16 - 11:40 AM (#3798609) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Thompson Die Buline or "the bugline" is given in Colette G Craig's book Noun Classes and Categorization with the meaning of a ships rope, also shroud, sheet, etc. |
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01 Jul 16 - 02:23 PM (#3798631) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Helen Just a thought: could the word have been made up simply from comparing a steam locomotive to a bull, which is big, roars and snorts "steam" from his nostrils? An interesting thread. I am learning a lot from it. Helen |
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04 Jul 16 - 02:13 AM (#3798932) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Best to locate the original(s) methinks. An American circus minstrel's Locomotive Bulgine Lecture had no boundaries of reason or logic. It was nonsense on steroids. Imagine it's the year 2180 and the only thing our progeny have to work with is an unsigned Robin Williams monologue. The full 'bulgine' routine: stand up comedy skit; song, with lyrics; and the dance; made up about about half the entire show. An 1840-50s minstrel troupe could hardly get on stage without one. Or a least a parody of the other guy's act. Somewhere I have a reference for a song. Darned if I can remember where or what though. For some reason I'm thinking it was an early Daniel "Dan" Emmett banjo tune, Locomotive Bulgine or Lettin' Off Steam or some variation of "Clear the Track or... |
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04 Jul 16 - 09:24 PM (#3799054) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,JeffB Partridge's Dictionary of Historical Slang : Bulgine. An engine: nautical: mid-C.19-20. It hasn't occurred to anyone that a small steam engine might have been used on the NY docks to move goods between dockside and warehouse. |
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09 Jul 16 - 07:51 PM (#3799593) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Jeff: There are a couple of posts to that effect in the chanty threads. The problem comes with quotes like Hugill's: "...but there was a theme of sorts which some shantymen adopted, that of running the 'bulgine' to and from all sorts of places: Oh, we'll run from Callyo to Dover. Oh, we'll run down south to old Cape horn. &c." And from there the author mingles in the later minstrel fireman's chaunt genre in: "Oh, New York [London] town is a-burnin,..." &c. Obviously we need more than one definition for the century or so of usage. Lastly... It's not a legal play in Scrabble. |
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03 Dec 17 - 08:12 PM (#3892111) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Rey Mohammed My understanding is that small, sturdy engines were used to haul cargo to the dockside for loading ("Portside" was once "larboard" [from "loadboard"], but that was easily confused with "starboard"from a distance). These little engines that could were called "bull engines" because they were built for strength, not speed. That became "bullgine". |
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04 Dec 17 - 09:38 AM (#3892196) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Mrrzy To me hey, rig-a-jig, in a lowback car (hi ho yo ho are you most done) with Liza Lee all on my knee (o, clear the track let the bullgine run). |
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05 Dec 17 - 06:35 PM (#3892311) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,ripov "Jaunting car" on our (long departed) 78 |
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05 Dec 17 - 06:37 PM (#3892312) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Rey Mohammed: Any sources for that? I've heard quayside locomotives called dock tanks; mules & tuggers but have never heard nor seen "bulgine" used in that context. Fyi: The standard combustion engineering definition of 'bull engine' is a pendulum pump; originally known as a Bull's Engine, after the pioneering Cornish engineer Edward Bull (1759-1798) an associate of Richard Trevithick and one-time subcontractor to James Watt. It's a fixed, stationary, dewatering mechanism, ie: no need to "run with" or "get out the way." |
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05 Dec 17 - 09:00 PM (#3892335) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,ripov Try again! "clear the track" suggesting a railway rather than nautical connection, I looked and found this this Their Motto - 'Clear the Track' (p20) |
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11 May 18 - 07:14 PM (#3923760) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Lighter Minstrel show humor, from the Pittsfield {Mass.] Sun (June 1, 1854), p. 1: "Sambo, why am a locomotive bulgine like a bed bug?" "I gib dat up, Mr. Dixon, 'fore you ax it." "Bekase it runs on sleepers." ("Sleeper" = railroad tie.) |
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11 May 18 - 08:46 PM (#3923775) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch ripov: ""clear the track" suggesting a railway rather than nautical connection..." "Get out of the way, you're all unlucky; Clear the track for Old Kentucky!" As in the bulgine, it's the railway via the minstrel show - Get Out of the Way! |
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12 May 18 - 06:16 PM (#3923988) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler. Re the locos mentioned above, I had always though that "The Best Friend of Charlston" was the first one to run in America. Possibly it was the first American-built loco to run over there |
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26 Nov 18 - 12:06 PM (#3963401) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST From the capstan shanty "Eliza Lee" as sung by Johnny Collins I reckon "clear away the track..." us a plea from the men sweatng at the capstan-bars warping their ship into dock for the dockers to clear junk lying on the railway tracks alongside the dock to allow the locomotive to do the hauling instead of them. We know a bulgine is a steam loco especially in naval parlance and these were used to haul ships in and out of dock like the "mules" on the Panama canal. It would only be natural that sailors put to work when there is a machine available to ease their labours would sing lustily to remind the powers that be of the errors of their ways. |
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26 Nov 18 - 01:28 PM (#3963420) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Greg F. Phil, what is this strange compulsion/fixation you have to make everything about minstrel shows and minstrelry? [See also Woody Guthrie thread, above] |
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27 Nov 18 - 04:34 PM (#3963648) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Well, the bulgine lecture is minstrelsy. Not my doing. The celeusma is a couple thousand years older. Also not my doing. I post about both where shanties are concerned. |
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10 Feb 21 - 09:11 AM (#4092426) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Cabbage Ahoy shipmates, Kind thanks for all the analysis of this song in this thread. Was recently introduced to it by The Dreadnoughts and I cannot adequately put into words MY BURNING LOVE FOR THE DITTY :D Jolly good stuff, all. Carry on. o7 |
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10 Feb 21 - 11:45 AM (#4092456) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Thompson Wiktionary has it as bullgine, with bulgine given as an alternative. The etymology offered is a blend of bull and engine. |
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28 Feb 21 - 02:56 PM (#4095355) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Terry Carter I can never resist adding redundantly to a perfectly good thread, but here goes. Yes, the bull engine was an auxiliary steam engine used to raise large sails. Why "bull" I have no idea, except it was big. It could also be called a donkey engine, as in "The Donkeyman's Christmas," a short story about an engineer who pretends the 'donkey' won't work, so the Captain can't go in the direction he wants. The ship is blown across the Date Line in such a way that the crew gets two Christmases. It wouldn't come up by title on Google and I can't recall the author. Sorry. Someone above mentioned that the 'track' seemed incongruous, as if mixing a railroad track into things. My understanding is that the engine exerted its pull by means of a cable between it and the yardarm. Introducing such a moving part into the mass of 'standing' rigging would be begging to foul something or other, so the cable ran through a track attached to the mast. That would have to be kept free of obstructions also, so "clear away the track and let the bull 'gine/ bulgine run." I love the notion that "low back car" is an ebonic mondygreen for something Irish. Simplified my life. |
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01 Mar 21 - 07:26 AM (#4095481) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Gibb Sahib Please stop trying to force it into something ship-related! Besides the fact that you have "chanty = ship" in mind, there is no reason this has to be any Shippy McShip thing. It's established that this was limited American slang, evoking real or imagined Black American speech, for a locomotive, that the "bullgine" was a popular trope in the language of minstrel songs and skits, and that such language freely permeated texts of chanties. _The New Negro Forget-Me-Not Songster_ (1859), pg. 62: CLAR DE TRACK. [1840s] Tune--Dan Tucker. [PARODY] By JAMES KIERMAN. Oh hears a song that never was sung, By any nigger old or young, An if you all will listen to me, I'll sing about some niggers that's free. Šo clar de track, de bullgine's coming. Clar de track, de bullgine's coming, Clar de track, de bullgine's coming, See de niggers how dey're running. Dh Dandy Jim an my Aunt Sally, Both live down in Shinbone alley, Lucy Neal an Mr. Brown, Lives in a house that's out ob town. So clar de track, &c. Misses Tucker and ole Joe, To take a ride one day did go; And Daniel Tucker thought he'd shine, Along wid de gal in de cabbage line. So clar de track, &c. Do yaller sun has jis gone down, An Pompy Smash is here in town: Lably Dinah's in a trance, And Jim Crow 's singing the Boatman Danca So clar de track, &c. [ETC] |
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01 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM (#4095502) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# The bul-gine was used in firefighting as early as 1818. https://m.facebook.com/Andoverfiremn/photos/a.1386955798215632/2587306531513880/?type=3 See paragraph 8 in that link. NB: In the early days of firefighting, firefighters ran beside the horse-drawn or people-drawn pumpers on the way to the fire. |
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04 Mar 21 - 05:09 AM (#4095966) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch From the releated threads: Lyr Req: Let the Bulgine Run - New York fire? Could you post the FB text here? Seems way early for a steam pumper. Sailors used portable steam pumps. The interwebs is a mess but, I thought the old Merryweather Valiant-class portable mentioned in the other thread was Royal Navy design & issue. I've seen old war/govt surplus in civilian use. Still checking but even so, it's a bit late for the shanty era. And I've never seen “bulgine” used in naval architecture, railroad or fire apparatus plans, drawings, purchase orders &c. It's not professional lingo. It's pop media-speak for “steam engine” already lifted from minstrelsy a bit before the classic shanty era is supposed to have begun. Get out the way... is the early period Ethiopian railroad locomotive engine which begat, Run with the... portable steam pump a few human generations of minstrelsy later. Facebook pending that is. |
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04 Mar 21 - 07:54 AM (#4095982) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# The reference in the link I posted was only regarding the use of the word 'bull-gine' (hyphen used in the linked article). Steam powered pumpers for fire use weren't in use until the 1840s. I posted that link because the date was 1818, thus providing an earlier date for the use of the term bulgine/bullgine/bull-gine. Sorry about any misunderstanding. Prior to steam-powered pumpers, the water was pumped manually. To repeat, see paragraph 8 in the article I linked. https://m.facebook.com/Andoverfiremn/photos/a.1386955798215632/2587306531513880/?type=3 |
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04 Mar 21 - 08:11 AM (#4095985) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Lighter Thanks, Guest,#, but we'll need a contemporary source, not an undated assertion, to push the word back to 1818. It doesn't show up in newspapers till the 1840s. |
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04 Mar 21 - 08:26 AM (#4095987) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# That makes sense, Lighter. The following Wiki article may help with dating, so I'll leave the link here and get back to it a bit later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Williams |
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04 Mar 21 - 08:47 AM (#4095990) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# https://books.google.ca/books?id=D2QEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=I+belongs+to+ole+%E2%80%98Leven;+I+allers+runs+wid+dat+ole+bul pp. 58-9 Unfortunately, that doesn't help much either. But it may be the source of the Molly Williams quote for so many (re)iterations of the Molly Williams story/quotation. Gotta dig s'more. |
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04 Mar 21 - 09:26 AM (#4095996) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: Lighter Thanks, #. |
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04 Mar 21 - 10:08 AM (#4096003) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# https://waterandsteam.org.uk/our-engines/cornish-engines/bull-engine/ If the facts of the article are accurate and true, then the earliest date for the 'corruption' of Bull Engine to bullgine/bulgine/bull-gine would have been 1856. (Corruption is likely the wrong word, but I can't think of the right word at the moment.) |
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04 Mar 21 - 10:22 AM (#4096009) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# Sorry, but my last post is completely wrong in its assumptions and conclusion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bull |
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04 Mar 21 - 10:23 AM (#4096010) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# However, that means then that the 1818 date could be accurate--specifically the quotation regarding Milly Williams. |
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04 Mar 21 - 12:59 PM (#4096035) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bull_(locomotive)#/media/File:%22John_Bull%22_first_locomotive_LCCN2016839120_(cropped).tif The John Bull engine (railway use) in 1825. |
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04 Mar 21 - 01:11 PM (#4096037) Subject: RE: Help: What is a bulgine? From: GUEST,# FAWK: Found my glasses. 1925 is that date. However, the earliest possible date for a 'bull' engine is 1791 which is when the inventor started designing the engine. The locomotive using the Bull Engine has about half the size of the larger steam engines on steam trains, so I can see its utility for firefighting. Now I will leave this thread and wish y'all success in determining things about bulgines. |