To Thread - Forum Home

The Mudcat Café TM
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=166037
119 messages

Ireland's Favourite Folk Song

24 Apr 19 - 08:42 PM (#3989091)
Subject: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

RTÉ have a new TV series called Ireland's Favourite Folk Song which begins this weekend, on Sunday 28th April.

After an initial open call for song suggestions, a panel narrowed it down to ten songs which will be featured on the series and then viewers can vote for their favourite of the ten songs.

Any guesses on which songs will be featured and which song might win?


24 Apr 19 - 09:55 PM (#3989101)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Guest

Fields of Athenry
Wild Mountain Thyme (Scots/Irish crossover)
Danny Boy.(Irish/English crossover). Hackneyed, but truly Irish favourites.
Do Pogues songs count.. ? what is folk what is pop? As soon as you use the word 'panel' then cultural bias and trendiness comes into it... the emperor's new clothes syndrome. It is no longer Ireland's favourite song but whichever writer or recording has kudos with the panel members and their own backgrounds.


24 Apr 19 - 10:43 PM (#3989106)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

The Foggy Dew; that's a no brainer.


25 Apr 19 - 05:16 AM (#3989152)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

I think, from the way 'folk' seems to be understood by the mass media (everywhere), that mumbling incoherently into guitars or shouting over a loud band will run off with the prizes here
Jim Carroll


25 Apr 19 - 05:49 AM (#3989157)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Steve Shaw

Galway Bay

Are we allowed Raglan Road?

Mountains of Mourne (my grandad's party piece after a pint or six: my gran's name was Mary-Ann and he'd pat her on the head as he sang the first line, "Oh Mary this London's a wonderful sight..." upon which she'd snap, "Sit down you silly old bugger..."


25 Apr 19 - 06:19 AM (#3989164)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"Galway Bay"
YOU CAN HAVE THIS ONE - FAR BETTER IMO
Not so sure about the other, even though my mam loved it
Jim


25 Apr 19 - 06:28 AM (#3989168)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Marje

It'd be interesting to know how this list, when it appears, compares with the favourite Irish (or pseudo-Irish) songs ouside Ireland (e.g. in England or the US).

I hope someone who sees it can post the final list on here. We'll probably pull it apart, saying, "That one's Scottish", "This one's by Ewan MacColl" etc ....

...but if you tried this exercise in England on national TV, outside the folk circuit, most viewers would struggle to name even a handful of English folk songs.

Marje


25 Apr 19 - 07:19 AM (#3989177)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

These competitions are usually fairly useless and quite often damaging
Thhey are run by people who don't know the first about the music in question and are usually decided by similar people who have the ear of the media
Far more reliable to ask The Irish Traditional Music Archive or 'The Goilin' or 'The Cobblestone' clubs for advice, but these are usually the last people whose opinions are taken into consideration
Jim


25 Apr 19 - 07:33 AM (#3989181)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Allan Conn

To be fair Marje the title of the programme is seemingly "Ireland's Favourite Folk Songs" and not "Ireland's Favourite Irish Folk Songs" :-) Though I do kind of agree with others that it will end up as choose a favourite out of this list pre-set by some supposed 'experts'. It is like the recent Greatest People Of The 20thC which was recently on BBC. David Bowie was voted the greatest entertainer of the 20thC - but he was only up against another three people. Billie Holiday, Charlie Chaplin and Marilyn Monroe. Hardly representative of who the public at large might regard as their favourites. And I've always been a huge Bowie fan....


25 Apr 19 - 08:01 AM (#3989184)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

Good chance 'Galway girl' is going to do well ;-)

Because that's the point isn't it, it's not a competition to find Ireland's most appreciated traditional song.


25 Apr 19 - 08:29 AM (#3989187)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Yep Allen that Bowie one was ludicrous, as much as we all love Bowie at his best - he was not the greatest entertainer of his century, though he has his place among all the other figures. And in terms of recordings he made an amount of stinking material as well as total classics. Death and media sainthood makes people forget the trash.    In the case of the Irish songs, Maybe they feel the public need guiding in case 90% of them go for 'Danny Boy' or similar. Also conceivably, without pre-selection someone could orchestrate a hijacking social media campaign to vote for an IRA or Loyalist sectarian politically themed song. I look forward to seeing this one unfold.


25 Apr 19 - 08:50 AM (#3989195)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

Apparently the shortlist is The Green Fields of France, The Foggy Dew, Danny Boy, A Rainy Night in Soho and On Raglan Road.
.


25 Apr 19 - 09:02 AM (#3989199)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Marje

Fair point, Allan, it doesn't say the song has to be Irish, so they're free to choose No Man's Land (the title that Eric Bogle actually gave to TGFOF) if they want to.

Marje


25 Apr 19 - 09:02 AM (#3989200)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Steve Shaw

Rainy Night is my favourite Pogues song. Sublime. I'll definitely go with Raglan Road as long as it's Luke singing it. And the Rising Of The Moon, Luke again.


25 Apr 19 - 09:09 AM (#3989204)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

There's a shortlist of ten songs.

RTE blurb for Ireland's favourite folksong

Bear in mind this is not about musicians or singers' preferences, it's about 'what song will you sing along to at parties' as they put it when calling for submissions (although in fairness, there were a few other reasons given to nominate a song).


25 Apr 19 - 10:07 AM (#3989216)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

I think Shane McGowan's 'Rainy Night in Soho' makes my point perfectly - it may be many things but a 'folk song' it ain't
Jim


25 Apr 19 - 10:11 AM (#3989217)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Steve Shaw

Hey, Jim, I always thought that a folk song was just a pop song with a fiddle in it...


I'll get me coat then...


25 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM (#3989219)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,HiLo

She Moves Through The Fair would be my choice.


25 Apr 19 - 01:09 PM (#3989228)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Any chance an Irish language song will be considered?


25 Apr 19 - 01:13 PM (#3989229)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"Any chance an Irish language song will be considered?"
I doubt if any of those concerned can speak Irish - some of them have trouble with English since it went Estuary
Jim


25 Apr 19 - 03:03 PM (#3989246)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

Nope, that's the shortlist. I don't know where RTE got it from. Mary Black is doing a series of programmes with two of these songs in each.


25 Apr 19 - 03:10 PM (#3989247)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Steve Gardham

Shawls of Erin?

I'll get me coat!


25 Apr 19 - 03:41 PM (#3989254)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: peteaberdeen

my lovely horse?


25 Apr 19 - 04:16 PM (#3989259)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jos

According to Peter Laban's link that's half the shortlist - five more to come tomorrow (Friday):

"The public nominated over 1,300 songs, giving the Ireland's Favourite Folk Song jury a mammoth task to whittle that down to just 10. The first five to make the Ireland's Favourite Folk Song shortlist are The Green Fields of France, The Foggy Dew, Danny Boy, A Rainy Night in SoHo and On Raglan Road.

Voting opens tomorrow, Friday April 26th, directly following the announcement of the final five songs on the shortlist."


25 Apr 19 - 05:36 PM (#3989267)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: John P

Why are we so obsessed with popularity contests? Does it really matter to anyone what someone else's favorite is? Music as competition has never seemed like a good thing to me.


25 Apr 19 - 10:07 PM (#3989282)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

a load of baloney


25 Apr 19 - 11:07 PM (#3989284)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

"We're Off To Dublin in the Green" 

"Whack Fol De Diddle Dee/The Orange and the Green"

"Come Out ye Black and Tans"


"Wind that shakes the Barley "


"Stick your Decommision Up Your A$$"

"My little Armalite"

"Amhrán na bhFiann "(The Soldiers' Song)

"A Nation Once Again"

"Arthur McBride"

"Some Say the Devil is Dead"

"The Fields of Athenry"

"There's No One As Irish As Donald Trump"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Well GUEST..it is certainly a load of.....putrid


26 Apr 19 - 02:55 AM (#3989302)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Steve - more true than you think. Most "folk" songs we know seem to have been 18th or 19th century popular songs (or even 20th).


26 Apr 19 - 03:36 AM (#3989307)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Ding Dong Denny O’Reilly and the Hairy Bowsies have two contenders.

1. The craic we had the day we died for Ireland.

2. The Potatoes aren’t looking the best


26 Apr 19 - 03:40 AM (#3989308)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"Music as competition has never seemed like a good thing to me."
Amen to that - competitions are for winners - only the first three ever win anything

"Most "folk" songs we know seem to have been 18th or 19th century popular songs (or even 20th).
Nobody knows where most (or even a few) folk songs originated - all we know for certain is that they have been around for quite a while
Most 18th, 19th and a few early 20th century songs either sank without trace or survived only in print - most popular songs tend to have been quickly forgotten by the people (popular only for a short time)
Jim


26 Apr 19 - 04:42 AM (#3989318)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Allan Conn

If the public nominated 1300 songs then one wonders why they need anyone to whittle them down to 10? You'd think it'd just be the 10 most nominated songs and take it from there. Unless they want to engineer what the 10 most popular are - which kind of defeats any purpose.


26 Apr 19 - 04:52 AM (#3989320)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

I think it will be a question of perception rather than anything. As has been discussed before, what the general public perceive as a folk song may not be a folk song according to aficionados. As we are discussing a 'popularity contest' I think there is little hope that the aficionados outnumber the general public. These things are light entertainment, not meaningful insights into a minority genre.


26 Apr 19 - 05:28 AM (#3989322)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

When I played music & organised sessions in west Cork 1989-2000, the most commonly performed song by local people was 'Summertime' (and the livin' is easy)


26 Apr 19 - 05:33 AM (#3989326)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

There is a great danger that this will end up as a market ploy to discover the most marketable folk songs
The last thing the Irish folk scene needs now is another folk boom
Jim Carroll


26 Apr 19 - 07:11 AM (#3989334)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jack Campin

"Summertime" has to be one of the greatest successes ever by someone Jim Carroll would classify as a broadside hack. It must have been far more widely transmitted orally than anything ever found by a field collector. (And the words are still in copyright: Ira Gershwin lived to 1983).

Never mind Ireland, it must be close to being the Anglophone world's favourite folk song.


26 Apr 19 - 08:14 AM (#3989337)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

Unless George Gershwin changed his job in midstream, the beautiful 'Summertime' is as far from the output of 'broadside hacks' as you can get
Popularity has nothing to do with songs being passed through a process to become traditional
The fact that it remains the property of the Gershwin estate means it can never be claimed by the folk - it is not a folk song if the term 'folk' is to mean anything - sorry   
I was making a point - not trying to start a 'what is folk' argument
Of all places, Ireland tends to not have the problem of identifying traditional songs and music that Britain now appears to have
The media is a different kettle of fish
Jim Carroll


26 Apr 19 - 12:08 PM (#3989378)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

I'm not interested in another 'what is folk' thread either.

But the 'folk' seem to have accepted 'Summertime' as the kind of song 'sung at parties' - isn't that one criterion deciding the winner of this daft competition?

To eliminate 'Summertime' you surely have to define 'folk'?- count me out of that....


26 Apr 19 - 12:42 PM (#3989381)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"But the 'folk' seem to have accepted 'Summertime' as the kind of song 'sung at parties' -
As they have Abba's Waterloo and The Birdie Song
This attitude robs folk song of its uniqueness and importance as a people's art
You have given your own answer - by counting yourself out you can have no input in this subject
Jim


26 Apr 19 - 12:50 PM (#3989384)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs. As well as Ted Edwards' parody "Suppertime" (and the liver is greasy) :-) I've never heard Waterloo or The Birdie Song at a folk club though.


26 Apr 19 - 01:18 PM (#3989394)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

Final list:

On Raglan Road (poem by Patrick Kavanagh set to traditional air Fáinne Gheal an Lae)
The Green Fields of France (ie No Man's Land by Eric Bogle)
A Rainy Night in Soho (The Pogues)
The Foggy Dew (by Canon Charles O’Neill)
The Town I Loved So Well (by Phil Coulter)
Óró Sé Do Bheatha Abhaile (by PH Pearse)
Danny Boy (by Frederick Weatherly)
The Parting Glass (Scottish traditional)
Rocky Road to Dublin (DK Gavan)
Only A Woman's Heart (Eleanor McEvoy)

I'd lay good money on The Town I Loved So Well being voted in, given the rage and indignation over the shooting dead of young Derry journalist Lyra McKee last week in Derry (the town she herself called Legendary).


26 Apr 19 - 01:51 PM (#3989399)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

https://youtu.be/tZoqYZ2Hd9c


26 Apr 19 - 01:59 PM (#3989400)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

That's a folk song

"I've heard "Summertime" done extremely well by a number of people at folk clubs."
Yeah - I've come to realise the English clubs don't know their folk arse from their pop elbow nowadays
That's why people stopped going to the clubs - they didn't know what they were going to find when they got there
What does being "done wellhave to do with anything ?
Jim Carroll


26 Apr 19 - 02:05 PM (#3989403)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Cj

I was fully expecting to see a MacColl song in there, either Shoals / Shores or DoT. Still, no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing. I wonder how close The Whole of the Moon came to be included?


26 Apr 19 - 02:38 PM (#3989406)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

I'd love to see the other entries, and to know how high the votes were for different songs. I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs - the people of the country should decide that…


26 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM (#3989407)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

" no Ed Sheeran, which has to be a blessing"
Amen to taht, but give 'em time
" I don't really want RTE to decide what are my country's favourite songs -"
Amen to that too
It's not too long ago that RTE were contemptuously referring to Irish traditional music as "diddley-di" music
It's probably not a coincidence that exercises like these have only come to the fore at a time when traditional music proper has made it on its own terms largely without the help of the media - cynical opportunism
I know one of the ex directors of RTE - a man dedicated to traditional music - he often spoke about his struggles with 'them upstairs'
The Irish language channel, TG4 has always given traditional music its share of airspace
Jim Carroll


26 Apr 19 - 02:58 PM (#3989409)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

In your own words, Jim, pop songs are quickly forgotten and don't last long. Porgy and Bess was first performed in 1935 and is still selling out nearly 85 years later so I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it? I wish you would make your mind up! Or at least just give us enjoying folk music in England a break for just one thread.

Anyway, Morris practise calls. I shall just go off and play those tunes of no consequence that no one ever hears any more in England and leave you to cry into your beer over Englands past glories...


26 Apr 19 - 03:00 PM (#3989410)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

DtG
'Supper time' by the wonderful Ted.
Remember it well.
Whatever happened to Ted?
Roger.


26 Apr 19 - 05:17 PM (#3989433)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

He is still about, Roger. Severely disabled after a stroke but still managing to get out to clubs regularly. I last saw him at Swinton early this year and he managed a floor spot and plugged his new book!

The only bit of that song I remember is

Suppertime and the liver is greasy
Fish are jumping and the sausage is high... :-D


26 Apr 19 - 06:31 PM (#3989441)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

I may be an old fart, but surely more of the Irish people are likely to know songs like 'Wild Mountain Thyme' than lesser known Pogues songs, like a 'Rainy Night..' Then Bogle's 'Green Fields of France' is not quite on the public conscious scale of 'Wild Rover' 'Whiskey in the Jar, 'I'll Tell Me Ma' etc. In terms of the Pogues 'Fairytale of New York' is in a way now a modern seasonal folk song and known to everyone. Clearly the selection 'panel' have skewed the choices of the people. I'd love to see the actual proportional voting figures and not what the panel selected. Obviously sectarian/rebel songs on both sides would have polled as well. List programmes though are lazy programming. Not as bad though as Channel 5's Nation's favourite biscuit, sweets and other vacuous space fillers.


26 Apr 19 - 08:27 PM (#3989450)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

" I guess it is not really a pop song by your definition is it?"
I have no definition of pop song other than popular
Most disappear shortly after they have run their commercial value - others become 'standards' - still pop but old pop
It's a great song - one of namy I play regularly, lik mid career Sinatra, or Billie Holliday, or Ella....
Dooesn't make them anyything other tha what they are - certainly not folk
Enjoy Morris - or Bernard, or George...
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 03:02 AM (#3989470)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

I did, Jim. I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you. With your passionate views on maintaining the tradition I thought you may have refrained. Or at least come up with something more original.


27 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM (#3989474)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

Rule Britannia!


27 Apr 19 - 03:53 AM (#3989475)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

Nah, not a folk song :-)


27 Apr 19 - 04:09 AM (#3989477)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

" I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you."
You give as good as you get where I come Dave - instinctive defence
anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM (#3989482)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Stanron

No folk song started it's life as a folk song. It started it's life as a song which was popular enough for others to want to learn. It started as a popular song. You figure it all out.


27 Apr 19 - 05:14 AM (#3989491)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

Jim- we all know your trenchant & often stated views on what is a folk song. I disagree as you know.

That is irrelevant, what I'm saying is you can't even set up a competition like this without defining your terms. RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous.


At a singing session last night, I sang a 1910 pop song 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years. I'm not saying it's a 'folk' song- I don't believe in such definitions but does it have any validity in the tradition in your book?


27 Apr 19 - 05:54 AM (#3989493)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"RTE didn't do that, so the whole thing is ridiculous."
I agree
" I don't believe in such definitions "
That's ridiculous as well - folk song is a closely researched and documented Musical/poetic form of creation - to say you 'don't believe in that sort of thing' flies in the face of logic
The folk scene was based on a specific type of music and it produced some incredible and long lasting results in printed and aural form
If you thin a long rejected pop song is suitable for a folk club you and I live on separate planets
You insist on making it "my definition" - it isn't - it's the documented definition which happens to suit me
I see a future in an Irish scene that has come to recognise the importance of its folk traditions - I see a rapidly declining British folk scene that puts up the same arguments as you do
Your personal tastes atre of no interest to me as mine should be of no interest to you
I'm attempting to document a lifetime's work in folk arts as internationally agreed on in order to make it available for future generations (as entertainment and as social history) - I'm no longer sure what the English scene is trying to achieve by by`digging up hackneyed comic songs that have about as much chance attracting a young audience as does be-bop or The Charleston
JIm Carroll


27 Apr 19 - 06:12 AM (#3989498)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

'anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get'

probably a gig on cambridge mainstage.


27 Apr 19 - 06:15 AM (#3989500)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

Jim, I really can't see the point of even trying to engage with you- you have your views and I have mine- I never mentioned personal taste so that's irrelevant too!

As previously, your main aim seems to be to insult me for no good reason and to start another pointless argument. I thought my question was polite and to the point- basically that if a song is still popular after 109 years, it must have some validity!
I should have known what would happen and I'm not interested - have a nice argument.

As I will no doubt get another abusive reply, may I get in first and suggest that you take your books, your recordings, your tunnel vision and Jimmy Miller as well and shove them up your Khyber.
Good night- back to the thread.....


27 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM (#3989509)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

anybody who can describe Ed Sheeran as a folk singer deserves everything they get

Made up nonsense, Jim, and you know it. I said I would be happy to listen too a couple of Ed Sheeran's songs done acoustically at a folk club and I would be happy to hear the man himself performing traditional material at the same venue. I have never described him as a folk singer and challenge you to show where I have. Once again you know you are in the wrong and try to obfuscate the issue with wild inaccurate statements.

Stick to the point. You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing yet go ballistic if anyone dare mention wooly jumpers, beards or, heaven forbid, fingers in ears. Why is that? One law for Jim and one for everyone else I guess.


27 Apr 19 - 07:29 AM (#3989512)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,kenny

Sorry for the aside, but..... 'The Spaniard who blighted my life' which has survived in my own family and thrives among the people even after 109 years".
Used to be a great favourite of Stanley Robertson.
Meanwhile, back in Ireland........................


27 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM (#3989514)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

" You are happy to take the piss out of Morris dancing"
That was a joke Dave - I'm not a fan of Morris Dancing personally (for various reasons, (including the misogyny that has dominated up to now), but I've watched it with pleasure and have close friends who participate
If you can be jokey about what a folk songs is and what's suitable for folk clubs, surely you're not going to throw your toys out of the param if I ake a joke about Morris - or maybe I've misjudged you.
I've never commented on wooly jumpers and beards and my attitude to 'finger-in-ear' has been to explain it rather than "go ballistic (as you appear to be going now)

Are people really suggesting a song composed for the music hall 1911 (by Billy Merton) - not "the folk" is a folk song ?
The scene really must be in a bad way
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 07:57 AM (#3989515)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

That was a joke Dave

Of course it was, Jim. So is "How many folk singers does it take to change a light bulb? One to do the work and 3 to sing a long boring dirge about the dead one. In unison."


27 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM (#3989521)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

My point exactly - jokes between folkies
If you wish to find offence in a joke, you disappoint me
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM (#3989522)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Iains

I guess the "Unquiet Grave" won't make the top 10 then!


27 Apr 19 - 08:31 AM (#3989523)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

No offence taken, Jim. As I said, I was just a little surprised. Maybe you didn't see the exact words I wrote because there were tears of hilarity streaming from your eyes :-)

I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing but I am surprised at it coming from you.


27 Apr 19 - 08:42 AM (#3989525)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"I don't even mind the occasional piss-take of Morris dancing"
I was a joke (a pun on the name 'Morris' actually) - not a piss-take Dave
I do that sort of thing regularly
I think I hit a raw nerve - for which, apologies
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM (#3989539)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Dave the Gnome

We were once walking from one venue to another, in full Morris gear, when a fireman leaned out of his fire engine window and asked, "which one of you is Morris?". Quick as a flash one of our number replied," Me. Which one of you is Dennis? ".

No apology needed, Jim. No offence and no raw nerve. It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media.


27 Apr 19 - 10:42 AM (#3989542)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Elmore

My favorite Irish folk song is "Summertime" rendered by that late great Irish lad Doc Watson.


27 Apr 19 - 11:46 AM (#3989555)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"It is just that I get tired with the derision piled on Morris dancing by the popular media."
I feel the same about folk song proper Dave :->
Jim


27 Apr 19 - 12:16 PM (#3989561)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

Dennis? Why Dennis?


27 Apr 19 - 12:27 PM (#3989564)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Colonel Fraser

Dennis fire engines. Google it.


27 Apr 19 - 12:29 PM (#3989565)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

Dennis is the name of the makers of fire engines. its on the front of every fire engine in England.


28 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM (#3989665)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

To return to the thread, I believe today is a significant one in the life of the ridiculous 'favourite folk song' competition on RTE?

What sounds a LOT more interesting is the first of three hour long programmes about Seamus Ennis on the 'Rolling Wave' at 9pm tonight- marking his 100th anniversary next Sunday.


28 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM (#3989672)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

Face it, Ireland is a weird place.

They've been doing weird song competitions for many years. Theres a short story about one in The Dubliners by James Joyce.

I've only been involved in one, but I rank it as one of the strangest experiences in a fairly strange life.
After dragging me all the way from England as a a finalist - I seem to remember there had been a lot betting on the result in the surrounding towns, and there were dark mutterings about corruption in high places. One poor sod of a contestant was the guitarist in Crystal Gale's backing band - and he had come all the way from America to take part.

The judge turned out to be a cleric who bore a striking resemblance to Father Ted.


28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM (#3989675)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim


28 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM (#3989676)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

Face it, Ireland is a weird place."
SURE IS
Jim


28 Apr 19 - 07:31 AM (#3989690)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe

As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind, I don't expect this poll to have much relevance. No doubt one of the small number of token Irish songs people sung at musical occasions will win.

Another thing, could this poll have been hijacked by some group with an agenda, as happened in the BBC poll some years back when "A nation once again" was selected as the greatest song of all time or some such title.


28 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM (#3989692)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,patriot

Forty Shades of Green must be I with a chance?   you can't get more Irish than that, surely?


28 Apr 19 - 08:13 AM (#3989700)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"As most Irish people have very little interest in folk music of any kind,"
Considering the huge uptake of traditional music by thousands of young people (far in excess of anything that's happened in my lifetime), you have to be joking
Stupid competitions such as these are a result of the increase in interest
I've just seen a list of the panel - a political journalist and four total unknowns
Jim Carroll


28 Apr 19 - 08:39 AM (#3989704)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions.

that's why they do so well in the erovision song contest - they're match ready!


28 Apr 19 - 08:45 AM (#3989705)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

With all respect Jim, that's an extremely silly thing to say.

The Jury

You have at least heard of Brian Mullins, Nuala O'Connor and perhaps Mary Black and Leagues O'Toole at least. Aside from those there's an ethno-musicologist from UCL included Whatever else we think of this competition, it's not really a bunch picked up randomly off the street.


28 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM (#3989708)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe

@Peter Laban,

Thanks for link. I was a bit too negative in my former post. I thought wrongly 'twas just mainstream musicians were involved. Those people seem to know their business.


28 Apr 19 - 10:30 AM (#3989717)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

Sorry Peter
The newspaper jut mentions five today, I (wrongly apparently) assumed they wre all
"That's what I'm saying Jim, you should respect the tradition of having weird song competitions."
Like Eurovision - you mean ?
Jim


28 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM (#3989722)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

Disappointed that Brian Mullen has become involved in this nonsense - he's a fine singer with a great respect for the tradition (as will probably be seen tonight if he puts in a return appearance in the second Sam Henry programme)
Jim Carroll


28 Apr 19 - 03:30 PM (#3989753)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

Some candidates? I'll start with a few:

The Last Rose of Summer
Wild Mountain Thyme
Meeting of the Waters
She is Far From the Land
Bodenstown Churchyard
Nell Flaherty's Drake
Eamonn an Chnoic
Cill Chais
Slán le Máigh
Liam Ó Raghaille
Amhráin Mhuighnise
Sliabh na mBan


29 Apr 19 - 02:29 PM (#3989902)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Georgiansilver

I have read back over the thread and cannot see... or have missed this one which gets sung in bars all over Ireland and in clubs in England.....Has been performed by The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan and several other well known Irish singers....... would have thought it would have been a great contender. Song for Ireland.


29 Apr 19 - 03:52 PM (#3989923)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle

Also crossed my mind as a strong contender,and surprised not to see it in the list. Mary Black's version for me!


29 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM (#3989931)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: The Sandman

is this the fault of CCE jim


29 Apr 19 - 05:14 PM (#3989936)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Andy7

Andy7's Favourite Folk Song Competition:

First I'll make a shortlist of my 10 favourite folk songs.

Then I'll whittle them down, one at a time, until there's just one left.

That will be my favourite folk song.


29 Apr 19 - 05:29 PM (#3989937)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: olddude

Wild rover


30 Apr 19 - 03:11 AM (#3989999)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

"is this the fault of CCE jim"
Doubt it Dick - not enough money or kudos for them to bother
Jim


30 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM (#3990032)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

I don't think I've heard Song for Ireland sung in Ireland.


30 Apr 19 - 05:34 AM (#3990034)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

I like the song The Rocky Road To Dublin but do these producers/panel really think that The Rocky Road to Dublin is more popular in Ireland than either The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover, neither of which seem to be included in the list.
I would contend that you'd be far more likely to hear The Fields of Athenry or The Wild Rover being sung by an average Joe than The Rocky Road To Dublin.
Maybe the panel thought those two songs were too 'common'?


30 Apr 19 - 05:38 AM (#3990036)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

so what IS Ireland's favourite folksong after all this?


30 Apr 19 - 05:45 AM (#3990038)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

There's no such thing.


30 Apr 19 - 06:09 PM (#3990149)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

It's the Foggy Dew.


01 May 19 - 02:07 PM (#3990240)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

the Bob Roberts version?


01 May 19 - 06:17 PM (#3990291)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Hi Thompson!

Re "Song for Ireland"... I've heard it sung pretty regularly for a number of years at sessions - often, but by no means only, by visiting English singers.

Regards


02 May 19 - 05:05 AM (#3990338)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Don't know what stage this competition is at nor how it's decided. Nor any interest really- just curious about the answer.

Ireland has the best and the worst of songs & music as far as I'm concerned- certainly it isn't the lost world of music promoted by some
posters on mudcat, CCE and Bord Failte
'Song for Ireland' promotes an image which is very rare these days-- there's an awful lot of crap & suspect that aspect will emerge as the winner?


03 May 19 - 07:50 AM (#3990526)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Iains

Having just seen the shortlist, how many are actually folk songs sensu stricto?
On Raglan Road
Green Fields of France
Rainy Night in Soho
The Foggy Dew
The Town I Loved So Well
Óró Sé Do Bheatha Bhaile
Danny Boy
The Parting Glass
The Rocky Road to Dublin
A Woman's Heart


03 May 19 - 10:13 AM (#3990548)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,HiLo

Isn't The Parting Glass actually a Scottish song?


03 May 19 - 10:26 AM (#3990554)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle

probably - its about a bloke who's hoovered up all the drink. but now its his round so he bids you all goodnight.


03 May 19 - 10:37 AM (#3990560)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Mrrzy

When I was in Ireland everybody sang Red is the Rose but laughed at any of our requests, all too old apparently.


03 May 19 - 01:56 PM (#3990613)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Tattie Bogle

Bob Roberts' "Foggy Dew"? Ha-ha Guest, but not, to be sure, to be sure!
Better than Peter Pears, anyhow!


03 May 19 - 02:25 PM (#3990622)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Iains

Do you think the parting glass was half empty or half full?


03 May 19 - 03:04 PM (#3990634)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Connie O'Hayden

https://youtu.be/uvsvPidMLT8


06 May 19 - 03:30 AM (#3991006)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Thompson

The version of The Foggy Dew they've chosen puts my teeth right on edge, because the singer has changed the words to suit himself. Did I really hear "perfidious Avion"?


06 May 19 - 05:06 AM (#3991024)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: The Sandman

could it be perfidious avon , in honour of avon reps


06 May 19 - 08:49 AM (#3991085)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

"...puts my teeth right on edge, because the singer has changed the words to suit himself... "

Isn't that what traditional singers do - sometimes consciously, more often not? As a quick example, just think of "Off to Dublin in the Green" - a rewrite of a British Army recruiting song!

In the end, of course, it's the listeners who decide what survives...

Regards


06 May 19 - 10:13 AM (#3991097)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll

I sang 'Foggy Dew' last night at our local singing session
I love the puzzled expression on people's faces when you introduce the song and apparently proceed to singing something totally different
Jim Carroll


06 May 19 - 10:26 AM (#3991098)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Indeed, Jim! I get good value out of announcing that I’m going to sing “The Fields of Athenry” - and launch into (my version of) the song John Flanagan wrote as a response to the original!

Regards


07 May 19 - 07:42 AM (#3991245)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Niamh Bird

Interesting thread – though goes off topic....Song for Ireland was made famous in Ireland by the great Mary Black, and it’s sung quite a lot – still…. Generally it’s not known it was written by an English man….
And in The Foggy Dew (great rendition by Daoirí Farrell), the verse he sings mentions Perfidious Albion - Daoirí would never, ever change the words to suit himself, he has too much respect for the tradition....


oh the night fell black and the rifle's crack
made perfidious Albion reel
mid the leaded rail seven tongues of flame
did shine o're the lines of steel
by each shining blade a prayer was said
that to Ireland her sons be true
when the morning broke still the war flag shook
out its fold on the foggy dew


08 May 19 - 08:58 AM (#3991423)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Do we understand that the 'Foggy Dew' is Ireland's favourite folk song'?


08 May 19 - 09:05 AM (#3991424)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

'Do we understand that the 'Foggy Dew' is Ireland's favourite folk song'?'

I am not sure we understand the whole thing at all. What I do know is that the voting process is still in progress. But I say that without having followed much of it at all.



Ireland's Favourite Folksong


08 May 19 - 12:10 PM (#3991456)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: Stringsinger

I'll vote for My Lagan Love or The Lark in the Clear Air. Also She Moved Through the Fair. (I dig mixolydian.) O'Carolan is high on my list too.

Can there be a favorite song elected by the Irish people? I would tend to doubt it.

There are so many beautiful Irish songs that it would be like trying to pick out the most beautiful looking person in the world.


08 May 19 - 12:18 PM (#3991458)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,guest of 09.05 today

I think the whole thing is crazy but still curious- when is the final result known- earlier posts are not clear at all...


08 May 19 - 01:47 PM (#3991467)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

From the website:

'Voting closes at 6pm on 27th May. The folk song selected by you as Ireland’s Favourite Folk Song will be announced live on The Late Late Show on RTÉ One Television on 31st May. Between now and then: happy listening!'


14 May 19 - 12:08 PM (#3992335)
Subject: RE: Ireland's Favourite Folk Song
From: GUEST

Ryan Tubridy is going to announce "Ireland's Favourite Folk Song" ??!!

Things just got dramatically worse.