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BS: Chartism

01 Aug 19 - 06:03 AM (#4002919)
Subject: BS: Chartism
From: SPB-Cooperator

This is one for our American cousins.

On another forum I was reading a comment that the US Electoral College system might not be 100% fit for purpose.

In early 19th century the Chartist movement in the UK stated 6 demands for national voting reform. Though rejected at the time, eventually 5 out of the 6 were adopted.

If you were able to lead a 21st Century chartist movement, what would be your 6 demands for electoral reform in your People's Charter?


02 Aug 19 - 01:38 PM (#4003053)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Acorn4

I rather like the "Monster Raving Loony" party idea that MPs who accept donations from lobbyists should be made to wear logos like footballers.


02 Aug 19 - 06:37 PM (#4003078)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Doug Chadwick

1) Replace first past the post with proportional representation;

2) Get rid of party whips. All votes in parliament should be free votes;

3) A by-election should be triggered if an MP, elected on a party ticket, votes against a set number of his/her party's manifesto promises;

4) A general election should be triggered if the government reneges on a set number of its manifesto promises;

5) Scrap devolution - have one set of laws for the whole country. (This may lead to the break up of the UK).

6) Harmonise the working of local authorities to give a more consistent approach to recycling, provision of sevices, etc.

DC


02 Aug 19 - 06:55 PM (#4003080)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Doug Chadwick

Sorry, I didn't notice that you were asking about reform of the US political system. I must pay more attention.

DC


04 Aug 19 - 05:12 PM (#4003356)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Doug Chadwick

Refresh.

I"m surprised. I expected that this thread would have generated more discussion.

DC


04 Aug 19 - 05:14 PM (#4003357)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Mrrzy

Nah. We are jaded.


05 Aug 19 - 06:51 AM (#4003432)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: SPB-Cooperator

Maybe it is easier to talk about what is wrong with the world, rather than how to put it right. Anyway, hoping my understanding of the system is correct:

(1) Divide the state electors into individual constituencies based upon the number of allocated electors.
(2) Abolish winner takes all the state electors and replace with split states.
(3) Ensure that all constituencies have equal number of voters.
(4) Ensure that all constituencies are contained in a single border.
(5) Compulsory voting
(6) Abolish electoral funding by lobby groups.


05 Aug 19 - 08:44 AM (#4003441)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Acorn4

The Monster Raving Loony Party also has in its manifesto that there is a "cooling off" period of 30 days after an election - if you are not satisfied you get your vote back.


06 Aug 19 - 09:52 AM (#4003548)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Iains

It is interesting that in the last UK bye election Labour polled 4th.
This was closer to the monster raving loony party than the Brexit party who polled third. All loons together so to speak!


06 Aug 19 - 09:59 AM (#4003550)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: Stilly River Sage

If you wanted Americans to talk about it you would have labeled the thread "Electoral College." We all know what that dud of a rule is.


06 Aug 19 - 11:16 AM (#4003563)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: punkfolkrocker

I studied Govt & Politics/British Constitution at 6 Form College back in the 70s..
None of us could really make any sense of the American political system...
If I remember correctly, even our middle aged lecturer was just as mystified by how it worked...???

I honestly still don't understand it...

Apart from "Wealth + Lies = Win"...

But that still don't explain how a relatively honest decent man Like Obama got in...???


06 Aug 19 - 11:47 PM (#4003619)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: SPB-Cooperator

The reason I used Chartism as a thread title was because of the long-term impact on the UK electoral system brought about by the Chartist movement arising form the preceding Reform Bill. Initially the movement was defeated, but over time 5 or the 6 demands were passed into UK electoral law.

I was, therefore mooting whether or not the American people should organised and agitate to bring about its own demands for reform, and not allow a wannabe despot President carte-blanche to apply politically expedient changes towards achieving his own personal ends.


06 Aug 19 - 11:58 PM (#4003620)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: punkfolkrocker

I was watching a BBC light entertainment show tonight
that somehow touched on a Chartist confrontation with the military in Wales...

Surprising content amidst all the amusing banter...???

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0007fjj/who-do-you-think-you-are-series-16-3-jack-and-michael-whitehall

"In a first for the series, father-and-son comedy double-act Jack and Michael Whitehall
join forces to investigate their family tree.
They discover the tragedy that left Jack’s great grandfather (Michael’s grandfather) an orphan.
And tracing their line back to Wales in the 1830s,
they find out about a Tory ancestor's role in opposing the Chartist movement for wider voting rights.
"


07 Aug 19 - 06:59 AM (#4003652)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: SPB-Cooperator

That would be the Newport uprising where protesters were met by heavily armed troops. Similar to the St Peter's Field massacre before the Reform Act.


07 Aug 19 - 09:56 AM (#4003666)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: punkfolkrocker

My mrs is from the valleys,
so she had vague memories of this history in places she knows very well...

What is amusingly and convincingly indicated
is that the tories remain as nasty and devious a party
when it comes to ruthlessly maligning & shutting down the voices of their opposition,
as they did in the 1830s...

But at least they can no longer hang draw and quarter Corbyn,
or transport him...???

Quite an effective one off message carried to a mass BBC audience,
in this very popular BBC1 show...


08 Aug 19 - 03:27 PM (#4003838)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: SPB-Cooperator

Depends if the Home Secretary gets her own way or not - she wants to bring back capital punishment.


11 Aug 19 - 04:25 PM (#4004176)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: peteaberdeen

1. rewilding. when is the best time to plant a tree? 50 years ago - but we could make a start now


11 Aug 19 - 04:31 PM (#4004177)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: peteaberdeen

2, has gone away somewhere . so 3. all cats outside the home must be on a lead.


11 Aug 19 - 06:16 PM (#4004190)
Subject: RE: BS: Chartism
From: peteaberdeen

2. ban all personal screens - tv, mobiles, computers etc. more cinemas, theatre, live football and - of course - more community pubs