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Looking to ID an Irish tune

08 Sep 19 - 08:32 PM (#4007903)
Subject: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: TheRamblinReilly

I stumbled across this lovely hornpipe tune on youtube today; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_27Hbiwsqek

I cant for the life of me find a name or sheet music that matches how it sounds.

The video's description mentions "Anthony Davis, album: Perfect Timing", but searching for that brings up nothing of value, and while the comments seem to suggest it's related to "Paddy Cronin's Hornpipe", I still cant find the author or any other publications of this specific version. Hoping one of y'all might have a lead.


09 Sep 19 - 02:43 AM (#4007975)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

Sounds like something he made up himself.


09 Sep 19 - 05:41 AM (#4007996)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Helen

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb and make a guess here that there is no specific title for the tune.

a) The track listing for Anthony Davis: Perfect Timing CD Track Listing shows mostly tune types and not many specific tune names, and also the specific tune names are identified as "Trad" but there is no identifying information for the other tracks. The non-specific tune names are plural, "reels", "slip jigs", "hornpipes" etc so I think it is safe to assume that the tunes are a generic example of a type of tune:


    Anthony Davis - 01. Reels @ 113 (03:39)
    Anthony Davis - 02. Slip Jigs @ 113 (02:54)
    Anthony Davis - 03. Heavy Jigs @ 113 (03:47)
    Anthony Davis - 04. Hornpipes @ 113 (04:52)
    Anthony Davis - 05. Reels @ 113 (03:40)
    Anthony Davis - 06. Slip Jigs @ 113 (02:55)
    Anthony Davis - 07. Heavy Jigs @ 113 (03:47)
    Anthony Davis - 08. Hornpipes @ 113 (04:53)
    Anthony Davis - 09. Light Jigs @ 115 (03:36)
    Anthony Davis - 10. Beginners Reels (02:16)
    Anthony Davis - 11. Single Jigs (Hop) (03:17)
    Anthony Davis - 12. St. Patrick's Day (Trad) (00:59)
    Anthony Davis - 13. The Blackbird (Trad) (01:10)
    Anthony Davis - 14. Job of Journeywork (Trad) (01:12)
    Anthony Davis - 15. Garden of Daisies (Trad) (01:16)
    Anthony Davis - 16. King Of The Fairies (Trad) (01:21)
    Anthony Davis - 17. Reels @ 113 (03:23)

b) Also, a quick skimming of the comments on the video page shows a lot of people asking the name of the tune but getting no reply, and a couple of comments about Irish dancing, so, given the name of the CD/album is "Perfect Timing" I am guessing that Anthony Davis has compiled an album which has a number of tunes played in perfect timing to make it easier for the dancers. I know from what some musicians have told me, that dancers must have the tunes played in perfect timing otherwise it makes it very difficult to predict where the tune is going and to dance in correct time to the tune.

If you want to know if there is a specific tune name for the Hornpipe then you may be able to contact Anthony Davis.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'm just putting a few bits of information together and proposing a hypothesis.


09 Sep 19 - 05:52 AM (#4007999)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: TheRamblinReilly

That's the unfortunate conclusion I came to as well after I saw that list. I find it very odd that this Anthony Davis guy doesn't have anywhere you can actually buy his music from anymore. It appears that at one point his music was on amazon and itunes, but the links are now broken and searching on those stores yields no results.

If anyone familiar with this musician reads this, please let me know if there's any resources I've missed for contacting him.


09 Sep 19 - 06:00 AM (#4008006)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Nick

Try The Session too which is probably more tune oriented than here. Usually found answers to most tune related queries there.


09 Sep 19 - 06:06 AM (#4008008)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Nick

If you want to contact him I think this is the person you are looking for - Anthony Davis on linked in

Or you might contact through here. As he is a composer my guess is it may be self penned - Anthony Davis

Might be the wrong bloke of course!


09 Sep 19 - 06:07 AM (#4008009)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

Not trying to sound contrary or anything but you have the tune right there haven't you? It's a bit of an odd makey uppy tune but shouldn't be   that hard to play after hearing it a few times. Get out your C whistle (or anything at all that will play in C and F) and have a go.


09 Sep 19 - 06:42 AM (#4008016)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Nick

I think Helen is spot on. It's for dancers. It is very precise and purposeful rather than having much life in it. If you look at Irish Dancing Girl's other videos which have the same album referenced it's for practice. It doesn't have life and lift to it. Tunes are nice but a bit ploddy - because I think that is the aim


09 Sep 19 - 07:20 AM (#4008022)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Helen

Peter, the question in the original post was just for the name of the tune. Whether the tune can be picked up without sheet music was not the issue, as far as I can see. But I might be wrong.

Nick, I tend to agree with you about the mundane nature of the tune. A bit ploddy, no life, no lift and no lilt. But a useful tool for achieving the aim of perfecting precise dancing.


09 Sep 19 - 08:10 AM (#4008029)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

The OP was trying to locate sheetmusic. It isn't a big leap to assume he intended learning it.


09 Sep 19 - 10:44 AM (#4008056)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Nick

This might help a little - it is VERY VERY rough but may give some hints of the tune. You will need to add bits and pieces in. It was only a five minute job

Tune PDF

Tune midi file


09 Sep 19 - 11:23 AM (#4008069)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

Some of the commentators mentioned Paddy Cronin's . Not a bad tune when played at a brisker tempo.


09 Sep 19 - 12:31 PM (#4008103)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Modette

What a truly awful piece of music! It's about as Irish as tortilla. Paddy Cronin's probably spinning in his grave at the notion that he might be connected to this.


09 Sep 19 - 12:37 PM (#4008110)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

I agree that the tune linked in the OP suffers from a lackluster performance but the tune I linked to at 11:23 A.M. is top notch, IMO, whether or not the 2 are related. It lays pretty easy on the mandolin and Off to California follows it quite nicely.


09 Sep 19 - 01:09 PM (#4008135)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Modette

Yes, but a tune's nothing unless it sounds good on the fiddle or the pipes.


09 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM (#4008136)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

That's very open-minded.


09 Sep 19 - 01:21 PM (#4008138)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Modette

I'm glad you agree.


09 Sep 19 - 01:25 PM (#4008142)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

Hey, I got the makings of a nice little tune set from this thread and you got a chance to display your superiority. Everyone's a winner.


09 Sep 19 - 01:36 PM (#4008148)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: GUEST,Modette

You don't get Irish music do you? Get away and read some Breathnach.


09 Sep 19 - 01:55 PM (#4008153)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

I may not be an ITM expert but I have no problem detecting a musical snob. Adios.


09 Sep 19 - 03:58 PM (#4008172)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: TheRamblinReilly

Modette; While it would appear that you believe yourself to be the only one who's heard or can judge what good Irish music is while the rest of us musical peasants look towards individuals like you for guidance, I can assure you that isnt the case. My father is a first generation Irish immigrant and having attended many an Irish wedding and festivity, I've heard alot of GOOD Irish music myself, and I surely "get Irish music".

While I will concede that this tune isn't a masterpiece worthy of the highest accolades, it is a nice little tune that's got a cute and happy feeling if you play it at 1.5 speed.
It is my opinion that a musical piece has done it's job when it has conveyed an emotion or message to it's listener, and for me it has done so without need for flare or fancy. If for you it has not, that is very well fine, but I ask that you evaluate for what the purpose you listen to music be, and take your negativity elsewhere. Have a good day :)


To everyone else in this thread; Helen, Nick, and gillymor, Thank you very much for the resources you've so kindly provided. I will make an attempt to contact the composer and see if I can acquire an original sheet, and should I be successful, I will be posting it here (with permission of course) for the sake of completeness.


09 Sep 19 - 11:54 PM (#4008199)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Helen

Thanks, TheRamblinReilly. I hope you can find the composer.

I just looked at the video link page again and realised that I had not clicked the reply links so there were some replies to the questions about the name of the tune.

These are the suggestions:
Paddy Dunn's
Paddy Cronin's Hornpipe
or "A revamp of Paddy Cronin's Hornpipe"
Charles Haxell hornpipe

In the second part of the tune where the banjo(?) joins in it reminds me very much of some of the traditional tunes gathered in Australia by John Meredith and Hugh Anderson from a lot of older bush musicians and a large number of those tunes were played for bush dances.


10 Sep 19 - 09:01 AM (#4008212)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

You can compare midis of the tunes Helen listed at the session, as Nick mentioned above.


10 Sep 19 - 09:43 AM (#4008216)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: clueless don

Seems pretty definitely to be a recording aimed at competitive Irish step dancers. Recorded at "Oireachtas tempo" rather than traditional tempo, though possibly at the fast end of the Oireachtas tempo range.

Helen, your question mark ("... where the banjo(?) joins in ...") is well-taken. I can't tell for sure (my ear isn't that good), but I think it might be a banjo-voiced synthesizer.

Don


10 Sep 19 - 03:24 PM (#4008262)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Helen

Don, that makes sense. Normally I'd identify a banjo at a hundred paces but this time it was a bit iffy.

Off topic: Don't get me wrong about the banjo. I like the fingerpicking style a lot, but some banjo playing styles can be overwhelming, even relentless at times - very much depending on the player, however. I'm sure gillymor's long suffering Significant Other can sympathise with that. LOL (sorry gillymor, I couldn't resist that one! As a great Aussie once said in song, "don't ever let a chance go by".)

The hornpipe in question has a certain charm, but it reminds me of an incident in our session group. For some decades we have been playing Rosbif Waltz (scroll down to title), thanks to Mudcatter Alan Day for sending it to me all those years ago.

It has an unusual and interesting tune and rhythm, inspired by a French tune I think. A few years ago, one of the members of our session group excitedly started playing a variation of the tune which she had learned from a friend and asked me if I liked it. Without hesitation I said no, because all of the interesting bits had been ironed out of it and it had become a mundane tune and rhythm. Like taking a spiky sound file and smoothing the spikes out of it to make it more like Muzak than music. It was almost like a completely different tune but with the same chord progression. Rosbif Waltz has been one of my favourite tunes ever since I first heard it. I'll stick with the original, thanks.

So, although the hornpipe in question has some charm, for me it is the lilt and variation or even bending of rhythm which makes a tune more interesting. Having said that, the hornpipe under discussion is a specific tool built (we suspect) for a specific purpose and using those criteria it splendidly does the job for which it was designed.


11 Sep 19 - 06:19 AM (#4008353)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

Yes Helen, sadly my wife lacks the ability to appreciate fine banjo music (no oxymoron there) and more recently the dulcet tones of an electric guitar run through an over-driven amp.


11 Sep 19 - 02:39 PM (#4008416)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Helen

Oh the poor woman. Please extend to her my deepest sympathies. Perhaps you need a garage studio - about a mile from home.


11 Sep 19 - 02:53 PM (#4008419)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Jim Carroll

"Yes Helen, sadly my wife lacks the ability to appreciate fine banjo music"
Tell her there's a permanent welcome for her in West Clare where musicians (sic) are body-searched for banjos, spoons and bodhrans before they can cross the border - not universally appreciated but some don't mind the body-searches too much !

Jim Carroll


11 Sep 19 - 07:24 PM (#4008443)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: Nick

People dance because they are happy


11 Sep 19 - 07:48 PM (#4008446)
Subject: RE: Looking to ID an Irish tune
From: gillymor

Made me happy too, thanks for posting that.