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07 Oct 19 - 11:57 AM (#4012361) Subject: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Not quite the tech we are used to but old tech :-) Just lifted lots of old floor tiles because they had been laid, not very well, on plywood which had been stapled, with heavy duty staples, to the old floorboards. The tiles are gone and so is the plywood. What is left is dozens of staples embedded in the floorboards. Now, do I risk spending half a day on my arthritic knees to pull them up? Do I spend half a day stooped over bashing them flat with a hammer? Or is one of you clever people going to come up with a better alternative? :-) |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:00 PM (#4012362) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: gillymor If I understand you, Dave, your looking at floor joists that have staples sticking out of the top end? |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:02 PM (#4012363) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: gillymor ... and are you going to put down new plywood or some other subfloor? How much area are you talking about? |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:10 PM (#4012366) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mossback I don't think the joists are exposed - rather the old plank flooring that was under the removed plywood - yes? |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:11 PM (#4012367) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome No, the staples are in the floorboards. The plywood was on top of the boards, which are fine. We are probably going to have Karndean flooring laid on the boards. |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:11 PM (#4012368) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Horseback - yes. |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:13 PM (#4012369) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Sorry Mossback. Damn you spill chucker. |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:20 PM (#4012372) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: gillymor If there is some space between the top of the staple and the floorboard perhaps you can fashion a puller out of a 1x2 (cut to the length you please) with an appropriate sized allen wrench fastened to it so you can pull them standing up. As a guy with a new knee and 2 bum hips I often have to come up with stuff like this. |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:25 PM (#4012373) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: GUEST Staples can be difficult to remove - one end will come free, making it hard to grip the other end. I would hammer them flush, accepting that it would prevent sanding the boards in the future. Phil |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:47 PM (#4012379) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: punkfolkrocker Quickest way is to set fire to all the wood and burn it off the nails/staples, then go over the ashes with a metal detector.. Some of the nails/staples might still be salvageable... [PFR's guide to easy home improvements - burn it down and then buy a new build with the insurance...] |
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07 Oct 19 - 12:56 PM (#4012381) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: John MacKenzie https://www.amazon.co.uk/Staple-Remover-Lifter-Upholstery-Office/dp/B07DVGR5JF |
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07 Oct 19 - 01:22 PM (#4012385) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: GUEST,Ray Just the job and at £2.98 in postage what is there to go wrong - apart from the feedback allegations. I’m sure other versions are available. Carpet fitters always staple the underfelt down and those are a pain to remove. |
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07 Oct 19 - 02:02 PM (#4012395) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Jim Carroll Get yourself a garden kneeler Dave I spent a lifetime removing old nails and tacks from floorboard in my work, quite often I furd the best way ti get them out without damaging the wood is to get a short, flat strip of metal, place it adjacent to the nail, try to grasp the head with a pair of wire cutters and lever it out using the bar as a protective base Slow at first but until you work up a rhythm The worst job I ever had was trying to lift floorboards that had been fixed down with wooden pegs two-hundred years earlier Donch'a just hate clever-clogs craftsmen ? Jim |
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07 Oct 19 - 02:36 PM (#4012406) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler To get old staples out of fence posts I usually end up with an old screwdriver and a hammer then a pair of pincers. I find I have to often have to sit on the floor with one hand as a support as my knees will only take about 20 minutes at a time, so do anything that takes two hands first while on the knees and follow up with the single hand action whilst sitting! Robin |
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07 Oct 19 - 03:12 PM (#4012413) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Suggestions being considered so far from both here and headache - Garden kneeler. Thanks Jim. I need a new one after melting my old one (don't ask!) - Low stool to sit or kneel on - Flat cutters or carpenters pincers to pull them out - Multi tool with metal cutting blade to cut them off at floor level I shall experiment and let you know :-) |
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07 Oct 19 - 03:30 PM (#4012416) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Headache = faceache! |
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07 Oct 19 - 06:52 PM (#4012437) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mossback Morseback, Horseback, sqwidly borseback - no problem. If you're going to put down new plywood or other subfloring, pounding the buggers flat with a hammer is the easiest way to go. For the fastidious, removing all the staples prior to installing new sub-flrting over the old floor boards would be the way to go- but there's no long term advantage to that. Home Ownership- ain't it grand? All best, Bill |
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07 Oct 19 - 09:00 PM (#4012447) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Rapparee Crowbar or something similar. Magnetic pickup. NB: Does not work with members of the opposite sex. |
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07 Oct 19 - 11:25 PM (#4012452) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Stilly River Sage Depending on the size of the staples, I've had to remove heavy duty staples from wood a number of times and simply use pliers to grip the exposed edge of the staple and pull it out evenly (getting both sides). If the staple is flush with the floor then I have several implements to loosen it; a screw driver, a cheap knife that can work under it and twist a little to create a gap without breaking off the knife. |
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08 Oct 19 - 01:06 AM (#4012457) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Gurney If you can grip the staple, grip it with locking pliers and rock it out, using a piece of thin steel to protect the floor surface. If you can't grip it, you could grind it off with an angle-grinder and nail-punch the legs below the surface and then fill. This requires fine control, angle-grinders don't take prisoners. I'm assuming that you want to save the surface. |
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08 Oct 19 - 02:47 AM (#4012461) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Jim Carroll The removal of old staples and nails without damage to the wood depend on leverage - pulling out seldom works and, speaking for myself, my pulling power with nails rode off into the sunset along with my pulling power with women, too long ago to remember The small flat bar I mentioned will to, but, at a pinch, the blade of a large screwdriver laid flat on the floor will suffice I spent a great many years easing up old floorboards for my work - an interesting occupation sometimes, especially when I rolled back the lino to find the floors covered with old newspapers in almost mint condition (an ols method of preserving the floor covering) I spent an entire afternoon on my knees in the upper rooms of a pub in Vauxhall reading about the outbreak of W.W.1. Jim Carroll |
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08 Oct 19 - 05:00 AM (#4012470) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Iains If I understand correctly you are putting down a laminate that is glued in place. That means hammer the staples flat or remove them, or a combination. If you really want to remove the staples try a pair of vice grips and roll them over a thin piece of battening to remove the staples. Depending on the type of staple and the wood they are in it may just rip the middle of the staple out and leave the rest.(If you have ever tried to remove the slats off a modern pallet you will know the problem)For the real piggy ones just zap them with an angle grinder It will be a tedious job whichever way you go. Another possibility is clunk click laminate with an underlay fibre layer that will absorb slight irregularities. |
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08 Oct 19 - 07:56 AM (#4012496) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: gillymor I was thinking about wiring a Dremel, or some other rotary tool, with a metal cutting wheel to a stick so you can work standing up. You might scar the floorboards a bit but you could also give your toenails a trim. |
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08 Oct 19 - 08:11 AM (#4012499) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome I am reminded of Blackadder where Nursey's brother cut his leg off while trimming his toenails with a scythe :-) |
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08 Oct 19 - 08:20 AM (#4012501) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: gillymor I've been jerry-rigging tools like that all my life and still have most my digits. Zipties might work better than wire. |
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08 Oct 19 - 11:58 AM (#4012539) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: leeneia Dave, if you are going to have Karndean flooring laid over the old floorboards, why not let the new crew deal with the staples? If the staples project, they can remove them, and if they don't project, they may just put underlayment down which smooths over unevenness in old floors. Underlayment has been around a long time. |
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08 Oct 19 - 01:03 PM (#4012553) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome It's just uncomfortable to walk on in the meanwhile leeneia. We are having a new kitchen fitted and the new floor will not go down until early December. |
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08 Oct 19 - 03:01 PM (#4012578) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: JHW Molegrips. Grip staple with molegrip locked and lean molegrip over on something to lever out. see Gurney above. Yes you'll need something to kneel on. |
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08 Oct 19 - 05:22 PM (#4012598) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: punkfolkrocker "Getting nails out of old wood" ..anyone else seen the potential for a smutty 'ooer mrs' joke...??? "... aaaaggghhh.. told you your nails looked like they needed filing...!!!???" |
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08 Oct 19 - 06:02 PM (#4012604) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome I'm sure molegrips could be included in either removing the staples or a smutty joke... |
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08 Oct 19 - 07:23 PM (#4012612) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Doug Chadwick Now, do I risk spending half a day on my arthritic knees to pull them up? Do you have children/grandchildren who are up to the job? If so, you could play the age card by dropping hints about how tiring it is shopping for all those Christmas presents that you MIGHT be buying. DC |
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08 Oct 19 - 07:54 PM (#4012616) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Steve Shaw Can't you find some animal or other that's on a staple diet, Dave? |
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09 Oct 19 - 01:55 AM (#4012633) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Ebbie Oh my. Does this ever take me back. I used to manage a number of residences. In one, I needed to replace the carpeting in two bedrooms. OK, no problem. I sliced the carpets to pieces and pulled them up. However. Under both of them were beautiful parquet floors. And. The carpeting had been put down with a thousand staples. Back then, my knees were still in pretty good shape but it was beyond a tedious job. Over a period of three days I learned to do it yard by yard - I surrounded myself with pried up ends then went back and painstakingly pulled them up. It was slow going but there was a feeling of accomplishment as, little by little, I cleared the land. Nowadays, I'd hire some young sprats. |
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09 Oct 19 - 04:50 AM (#4012645) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red I like the wheeze of the flat metal, (old knife?). Cut a bean can and unroll, or why not the aluminium top. All it will do is make less of a mess of the wood, which if you are covering it again - who cares? If you have to hammer them flat use the screwdriver as a punch (drift?) and place over the bit that you can sit the screwdriver on and hammer the other end. I also would use a (substantial) upside-down nail with a flat head because the head can cover the thin stub that can't be gripped and the nail head has more "pounds per square inch" than a hammer, less than screwdriver but won't slip off the spike. Hold with those pliers if necessary. Good luck with your staple diet........... hope you nail it .............. I'll get my Swish Army Knife (I use the pliers attachment on the Ceilidh floor staples at folk festivals, I am known for it). |
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09 Oct 19 - 08:30 AM (#4012674) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: punkfolkrocker My memory is clear enough right now to state the bleedin' obvious... I now remember many years ago I bought a staple remover from WH Smiths.. [or it could have been Staples.. before they were removed from the trading estate...] Googling staple extractors or staple removers results in various sharp grabby grippy looking tools... |
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09 Oct 19 - 11:54 AM (#4012712) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Got my garden kneeler, carpenters pincers, multi-tool and cutters. Going to have a go tomorrow. Further to the saga, part of the kitchen used to be a scullery and in that section, the floor is concrete. For some inexplicable reason, the plywood was fastened down there with plugs and screws every 3 inches or so. The screw heads just ripped through the plywood of course and as they had had tile cement on them the slots were not available to unscrew them. They did, fortunately, pull out, plug and all, quite easily with the aid of a hefty claw hammer:-)I Annoyingly, if they had used screws to fasten the plywood down in such a way everywhere, the plywood would not have flexed, the tiles would not have cracked and we would not now be renewing the floor covering. Ah well. C'est la vie as they say in Cleckheaton... |
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09 Oct 19 - 03:35 PM (#4012753) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: EBarnacle IIf it's not too late, just enter heavy duty staple remover into your search engine. The information is right there. |
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09 Oct 19 - 04:12 PM (#4012765) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Donuel google? I just use a small pry bar and locking plyers for the stubborn remnants. Gillymor you should sell your alternative tools or at least publish |
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09 Oct 19 - 05:30 PM (#4012779) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Bill D Gurney is right about locking pliers... others are right about a(thin) screwdriver to loosen them. "Molegrips" seems to be a UK word for a brand of locking pliers. Certain types have a rounded back that one can brace on the floor after getting a grip and rocked backwards for leverage. If any break, they CAN be hammered in/down. I wish I'd seen this earlier... I'd have posted some pics in Dropbox. |
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09 Oct 19 - 06:02 PM (#4012784) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Raggytash There is only ONE answer Dave, you have to remove them, one and all. If you give yourself a square metre to do at a time. I'm sure you will do more than that but if you don't you will only make it much harder for the next poor sod who wants to replace the same floor and sand the existing boards at some point. There are no short cuts! |
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10 Oct 19 - 02:38 AM (#4012816) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome The floor is not really good enough for that, Raggy. If I wanted a sanded floor I would replace the old boards with T&G anyway. But I am going to pull them out anyway! I have a staple puller arriving today - thanks EB but I beat you to it by about 4 hours :-) I'll probably give the old knees a text and start tomorrow now |
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10 Oct 19 - 02:58 PM (#4012932) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Raggytash Ye Gods, your knees must be really bad if you have to text them!! |
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10 Oct 19 - 03:07 PM (#4012935) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Makes a change from giving them a rest :-) The heavy duty staple remover bent at first attempt :-( Pincers work and for the stubborn ones, a bit knocking stick! |
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10 Oct 19 - 03:50 PM (#4012939) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Gurney Mole Grips, Vice Grips, locking pliers, all the same tool, the first two are brand names. They last a lifetime. You only need them occasionally, but when you do, nothing else will do the job. Dave, how have you managed to do without them for so long? I just did a mental count. I have seven. Two standard, one slip-jawed, three tiny ones, and a small long-nosed. But then, I've made my living in both engineering and building maintenance. When pincers are very new, they will cut the legs off staples, leaving two needles sticking up. They work, but they are meant for pulling small nails, not skinny staples. |
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11 Oct 19 - 10:19 AM (#4013039) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Moleys certainly do the trick Gurney. Thank you. |
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11 Oct 19 - 10:45 AM (#4013042) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome The multi-cutting tool does too but leaves marks on the boards. Not that it matters! |
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11 Oct 19 - 04:41 PM (#4013119) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: DaveRo A brief history of mole grips The Mole name is now owned by Stanley Tools. |
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12 Oct 19 - 12:47 AM (#4013171) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Gurney Thanks, DaveRo. They were always Mole Grips when I was growing up in England. They also called all vacuum cleaners 'Hoovers.' |
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13 Oct 19 - 03:45 PM (#4013440) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: leeneia Hi, Dave. So I guess your project is coming along. Keep us posted on your progress. In America we call mole grips 'vise grips.' |
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13 Oct 19 - 08:38 PM (#4013509) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Rapparee Another way is to burn the wood to ash and sieve out the nails. |
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14 Oct 19 - 03:56 AM (#4013546) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red Dare I saw this is a flawed project............... I am outathadoor already! |
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14 Oct 19 - 07:33 PM (#4013685) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Rapparee Of kerf, it's plane that drilling this home would go against the grain, so just brace up a bit and claw around! |
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14 Oct 19 - 09:43 PM (#4013692) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: EBarnacle Rap, get your coat, take a nice walk until you find a bucket full of ice, then place your face in it. |
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15 Oct 19 - 09:32 AM (#4013775) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Rapparee I saw that coming and I'll try to square it later. I'll rip right into it! |
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15 Oct 19 - 12:12 PM (#4013796) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome That's pretty much bit the nail on the head. Coming along nicely thanks Leeneia. Been looking at New flooring today. Looks like there is a very nice laminate with inbuilt underlay that will do the trick. Saw some Karndean but the shop only did the glue down variety that will not do for our uneven floor. T |
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15 Oct 19 - 12:46 PM (#4013802) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: punkfolkrocker What happened to lino then...??? When I was a kid, my mum was over the moon when dad could afford a few rolls of lino for the house... |
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15 Oct 19 - 01:18 PM (#4013816) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Lino? LINO!!! Bloody luxury. We had to cover our floors wi' chewed up newspaper and spread lard on it to mek it watterteet... |
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15 Oct 19 - 05:40 PM (#4013858) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: theleveller A curse on anyone who leaves nails in old wood. Just look what you've done to the freshly- honed edge of my beautiful fifty quid roughing gouge when it hit one in a piece of old oak fence post I was turning. |
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15 Oct 19 - 05:54 PM (#4013862) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Steve Shaw Q. What do you get if you throw a hand grenade into a Frenchman's kitchen? A. Linoleum blown apart... |
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16 Oct 19 - 03:55 AM (#4013911) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: BobL STEVE!! CORNER!!! |
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16 Oct 19 - 05:23 AM (#4013922) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red LOL And where did Napoleon keep his armies......................? |
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16 Oct 19 - 05:49 AM (#4013932) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Steve Shaw Up his sleevies? (I haven't heard that one...just a guess...) |
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16 Oct 19 - 06:47 AM (#4013940) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Gervase Done this many, many times; small screwdriver and carpenter's pincers are the best bet - use a piece of ply or thin metal under the pincers as you rock them to avoid scarring the wood if you want it to be sanded and polished. If you're going to cover the floor, don't bother with the shield. A foam kneeling mat is essential, otherwise your knees will grumble after only a few minutes. |
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16 Oct 19 - 12:15 PM (#4013984) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: EBarnacle As a kid, my parents took me on a vacation trip. One of the stops was a factory that made linoleum. Primary ingredient was linseed oil. [Hence the "lin" part of the name.] A few years ago, I was restoring a wooden teacher's desk and needed linoleum for the top surface. No longer available. |
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16 Oct 19 - 01:30 PM (#4014006) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red Linoleum was a good firestarter. So I guess it doesn't pass the safety regs any more. And there used to be a News Reporter on local BBC midlands (Radio & TV) called Lyndsay Doyle. Not sure it was real or pseudonym. |
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17 Oct 19 - 02:55 AM (#4014080) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: BobL Anyone else remember making linocut prints in school art classes? The stuff appears to be still available BTW, you can find it on e-Bay. |
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17 Oct 19 - 03:48 AM (#4014087) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red I used to have an Adana printing press, lead type and all. They used to sell mounted lino at about the right height. Using fine emery paper and a good flat surface you could get the lino surface super flat. Then using miniature woodcutting tools (not lino-cut tools) and a steady hand, carve fine & delicate lines. I carved the impressions of church brasses, used them to make Christmas cards for years. |
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17 Oct 19 - 10:05 AM (#4014140) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: punkfolkrocker Primary school lino cutting was a blood bath of sliced fingers.. I'd expect it's no longer on the school curriculum...??? |
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19 Oct 19 - 10:20 AM (#4014409) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Charley Noble Punkfolkrocker has it right. Order a "staple remover," a very small version of the basic pry-bar with two sharp prongs. It's strong and sharp enough to hammer in under the staple and pry it up with a minimum of damage. Artists who staple canvas to their stretchers use this tool all the time. You may even be able to pick one up at an art supply store rather than a regular hardware store. If the staple breaks, which some do, I usually have to dig around it with a small chisel and extract it with a needle-nose vice-grips. Sometimes I just take a grinder and grind the sucker flat. Sometimes I just cuss at it. Cheerily, Charlie Ipcar |
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19 Oct 19 - 10:45 AM (#4014416) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Thanks Charlie. They are nearly all up now thanks to the mole grips though. |
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20 Oct 19 - 05:22 AM (#4014511) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red Did the wife tell you to "get a grip"? |
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20 Oct 19 - 10:22 AM (#4014537) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Stilly River Sage That's a "vise" grip, Charley. What kind of vice to you grip with your tool? ;-) Hahaha! |
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22 Oct 19 - 02:31 PM (#4014899) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red vice versa |
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22 Oct 19 - 02:36 PM (#4014902) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Vine, vide, vice? |
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23 Oct 19 - 12:23 PM (#4015032) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Mr Red vide, vice, vine you do it your way, I prefer mine! And there is always Amo, amas, amamus, amattitagian .................. |
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23 Oct 19 - 12:52 PM (#4015038) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Steve Shaw Blum blum blum blee blo blo Amo amas amat amamus amatis amatriciana |
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23 Oct 19 - 01:10 PM (#4015041) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Amaretto? Committed now. Getting a quote for some Karndean LVT. The chap has been out today and said he can do it on 9mm ply and will take up any remaining staples. Bit of work to do on the concrete but I can manage that. Need to get some floor repairs done but that is mainly under where the new units will be so will not affect the new flooring. The old knees are not much better but the nurse practitioner has said it may be my hip and the chiropractor thinks it is nerve/tissue related rather than the joint. I tend to agree more with the latter. Sort of feels like that anyway. It's all go at Gnome Towers. Should be ready before the next influx of Muscat visitors in the spring :-D |
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23 Oct 19 - 01:14 PM (#4015042) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Muscat=Mudcat but a bit more exotic... |
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23 Oct 19 - 01:20 PM (#4015045) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Steve Shaw Grape expectations? |
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23 Oct 19 - 01:35 PM (#4015050) Subject: RE: Tech: Getting nails out of old wood From: Dave the Gnome Only time will (Musca)tell... |