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Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh

16 Nov 19 - 03:12 PM (#4019617)
Subject: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu

However you translate this word, it is not for the squeamish.

The word 'fulachtadh'
appears in the manuscript, the Leabhar Breac.
It is part of a quatrain of verse handwritten in
the margins of the manuscript.
Which stanza reads:

Ach, cer thinn a fulachtadh
tucad er chnes meic Mhuire
tinne leis a dubhachus
do bhí uirraidh-si uime


By the time one encounters the English translation
set to music by Samuel Barber in the song "Crucifixion,"
the first music Barber composed for his song cycle "Hermit Songs,"

it has been rendered thus
(translator Howard Mumford Jones):

Ah! sore was the suffering borne
By the body of Mary's son!
But sorer still to Him was the grief
Which for His sake came upon His Mother.

"Suffering" being the poetic equivalent of "fulachtadh" above.

Is this a euphemistic translation, though?
What does 'fulachtadh' really mean?


17 Nov 19 - 02:34 AM (#4019633)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Dineen, the standard early 20C. dictionary of Irish gives "seething" as the sole meaning for "fulachtadh" and relates it to "fulacht", with a number of cooking-related senses.

The next word in Dineen is "fulachtain" meaning "tolerant, long-suffering".

So Mumford Jones appears to be on the money, alright.

Regards


25 Nov 19 - 01:14 PM (#4021045)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu

I looked online and stumbled across a definition of
blood-letting or butchery.
Knowing me, I got it wrong, I suppose.


25 Nov 19 - 04:32 PM (#4021067)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Sorry to disappoint!

The only connection I can guess at is through “fuil” - which means “blood”. This may look similar but sounds different!

If you point me towards your online source, I may be able to make sone sense of it.

Regards


25 Nov 19 - 05:16 PM (#4021078)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu

Here it is.


25 Nov 19 - 05:50 PM (#4021083)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan

Interesting indeed. That reference cites it as a “possibly figurative” use of the cooking/seething sense I gave. Who knows? I know an academic and native speaker of Irish who may know more ...

Regards


27 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM (#4021284)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson

I wonder if the word's related to fulacht fia, a method of cooking using dug-out and lined pits filled with water; you slung in red-hot boulders heated in a nearby fire, then your meat mummified tightly in grass and herbs. Fia is a deer, by the way.


27 Nov 19 - 05:05 AM (#4021298)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin

Yep - that's part of the cooking/seething sense alright.

Regards


27 Nov 19 - 10:47 AM (#4021355)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Philippa

This Irish is too old to be readily understood by modern Irish speakers. I expect fulachtadh is closely related to the words "fulaing" (to suffer or endure) and "fulaignt" - endurance, forbearance, suffering.


27 Nov 19 - 11:12 AM (#4021357)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson

Isn't fulacht fia oldish too?


27 Nov 19 - 11:43 AM (#4021369)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu

I'm showing my ignorance here.
The Leabhar Breac is a document of great antiquity, I get that,
so the language in which it is written
is at some remove from the Gaelic of recent centuries.

That said,
I have no clue when you stop speaking of "Gaelic"
and when it becomes "middle Irish"
or "old Irish."


Phillipa, your contribution is especially appreciated, thank you.


29 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM (#4021621)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson

Middle Irish was up to AD 1200.

Old Irish was from AD 600 to 900.


02 Dec 19 - 03:14 AM (#4021891)
Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: The Sandman

i wonder if it has the same etymological root as fulminating, i would like to think of my oxtail stew as fulminating