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28 Dec 19 - 07:55 AM (#4025185) Subject: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs The latest production of Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" was ruined by BBC lefty claptrap!! |
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28 Dec 19 - 08:33 AM (#4025193) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Iains Console yourself with the thought: Their future is in doubt. Bojo is coming to take them away, Ha Ha |
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28 Dec 19 - 10:25 AM (#4025210) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I enjoyed most of it but have reservations about the way some of the narrative was changed. I thought it was well filmed and well acted. What I cannot see at all, Bonzo, is how you deem any of the changes to be 'lefty'. Would you care to explain? |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:03 AM (#4025218) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs No I wouldn't. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:03 AM (#4025220) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker Because prevailing fukwit right wing dogma blames the Beeb for everything.. ..from marxist revolution, to kiddy fiddling, and devil worship... ..despite persistent obvious attempts by the BBC to kiss tory arses, and shift all the blame to Corbyn and the left for everything... The Beeb - too right wing for the lefties, and too leftist for the tories and alt right corporate media barons.. Poor old Auntie Beeb can never win... |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:04 AM (#4025222) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I didn't think you would, Bonzo. Pavlov's dog could explain its reaction either. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:05 AM (#4025224) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: keberoxu Well, the word "canon" is applied to Dickens and A Christmas Carol for a reason. Anyway, the BBC made few friends and lots of unhappy viewers with its take on H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds, so this is a familiar complaint. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:16 AM (#4025230) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Backwoodsman It was an ‘adult-themed adaptation’ of the Dickens original piece. When a story, and movie-versions of it, are so well-known, it’s understandable that a new version which deliberately sets out to be ‘different’ will attract criticism - it set out to be ‘uncomfortable’, and it succeeded in that aim IMO. We thought it was an interesting, if somewhat ‘dark’, adaptation with some excellent acting - Guy Pearce was outstanding, as was Vinette Robinson. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:19 AM (#4025232) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker and also because some alt right tit * writing for the Spectator [ * "James Delingpole James Delingpole is officially the world's best political blogger. (Well, that's what the 2013 Bloggies said). Besides the Spectator, he is executive editor of Breitbart London and writes for Bogpaper.com and Ricochet.com..."] has decreed that this new telly show is too left wing... "BBC’s A Christmas Carol was the victim of tub-thumping lefty politics" |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:25 AM (#4025236) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG I really enjoyed it. I admit I didnt like the final few moments which suggested it was somehow all Mrs Cratchetts doing, but otherwise it seemed to totally in keeping with the original and the rest of his works. As it happens, when it ended I flicked through the channels and there was another version on. The scene was in the Cratchett's house which was spotless, quite well decorated and everyone was clean and tidy with perfectly cut and dressed hair. I know which I regard as closer to the book. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:28 AM (#4025238) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I suspect that Mr Delingpole cannot explain the comment either. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:29 AM (#4025239) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: keberoxu Guy Pearce, with Robert Carlyle, was in the horror moive Ravenous, a film I have not actually sat through from beginning to end. (guess which one portrayed the batshit-crazy villain) |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:43 AM (#4025244) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker Now I'd happily sit through Ravenous for a 3rd time.. Is there a BBC Agatha Christie this xmas/new year...??? That usually upsets her traditionalist fans.. But me and the mrs quite enjoy them.. |
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28 Dec 19 - 11:51 AM (#4025245) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Iains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxjxLnVIGo |
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28 Dec 19 - 12:08 PM (#4025246) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-hands-off-our-bbc |
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28 Dec 19 - 12:25 PM (#4025253) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I suspect it will be the bible next. Them leftie loonies at the beeb will probably portray JC as some sort of hippy socialist who sympathises with Palestinian terrorists. What is the world coming to? |
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28 Dec 19 - 12:53 PM (#4025258) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG Incidentally, my favourite version of 'A Christmas Carol' was by Northern Ballet Theatre (now renamed Northern Ballet.) while we saw it live a couple of times, it was also broadcast on BBC2 and was available on DVD, but I believe it is no longer for sale. If you find a copy in a boot sale or at a library, it is worth seeing. |
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28 Dec 19 - 01:05 PM (#4025260) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Backwoodsman What does Brexit have to do with the BBC’s recent production of ‘A Christmas Carol’? I refer to my quotation from Aldous Huxley on the ‘Broken Government Pledges’ thread, in particular the reference to ”Meanwhile the ruling oligarchy and its highly trained elite of soldiers, policemen, thought-manufacturers and mind-manipulators will quietly run the show as they see fit”. Strong evidence of it in the YouTube video linked to by our Right-Wing-Extremist’s Plant above. Plenty of thought-manufacture and mind-manipulation going on there, for anyone feeble-minded enough to fall for the bullshit. |
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29 Dec 19 - 06:07 AM (#4025306) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs It was totally over the top, extreme blind colour casting, Scrooge's nature blamed on pooving from his school teacher...........need I go on????????????? |
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29 Dec 19 - 06:29 AM (#4025310) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome extreme blind colour casting Are you complaining that a fictional character was played by someone of the 'wrong' colour? Was Mrs Cratchett's colour ever mentioned in the book anyway? Scrooge's nature blamed on pooving from his school teacher Not even sure what that is supposed to mean but I guess it was the implied abuse he suffered at school. If so, yes, I am not sure about that bit and his sister threatening the master with a gun myself. It did make it much darker than previous interpretations and brought out that dwelling on the abuse meant he missed the kindness of his sister. I can live with that. .need I go on????????????? Yes. What has any of this to do with 'lefties'? |
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29 Dec 19 - 07:02 AM (#4025319) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG I dont think it detracts from the story by making Scrooge less of a two dimensional character. in the original he started as a very simple 'baddie' with no hint of how he ended up there. It may seem a leap, but I think that the early 'X Men' are made much better than many films where the villains are simply villainous. By giving Magneto a back story it changes the story from simply goodie against baddie to something much more intellectually interesting. And something similar happened here, to my taste. Even from the earliest scenes, Scrooge was more complex as a character than most productions. to me, that enhances the story. |
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29 Dec 19 - 07:04 AM (#4025320) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Backwoodsman ”What has any of this to do with 'lefties'?” Nothing at all AFAICS, Dave. But I do believe we’re getting an insight into the nasty, racist, homophobic mind of a self-confessed Tory fanboi. |
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29 Dec 19 - 11:48 AM (#4025349) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I agree with your comparison with the X-Men and the Marvel films in general, D. DC have failed with their back stories so far and they have ended up with the shallow characters we see in, for instance, Justice League. Maybe next year we need a Jos Wheeldon Christmas Carol :-) |
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29 Dec 19 - 01:10 PM (#4025360) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker IMHO... The best movies usually have villains who are more interesting charismatic characters and better actors than the hero... It's such a disappointment when they get killed at the end... .. and anti heroes are always more fun than heroes... |
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29 Dec 19 - 01:24 PM (#4025362) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker btw.. If Samuel L. Jackson gets a role in a movie, I don't care what race the fictional character was written, or merely accepted, to be... Now then, Sam as Robin Hood, or Arthur of the Britons... or.. Boudica... come on Netflix, you can CGI de-age him, and get a younger stunt performer.. Boudica might need a bit more CGI.. but... anything to annoy the reactionary boneheads... |
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29 Dec 19 - 02:28 PM (#4025368) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: keberoxu pfr, was that film with Samuel L. Jackson AND Robert Carlyle to your liking? |
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29 Dec 19 - 02:37 PM (#4025370) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker Sam in a kilt.. that was a good laugh... he's one of the actors I'll watch in anything... well.. almost.. that new netflix unicorn movie looks diabolically bad... |
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29 Dec 19 - 04:37 PM (#4025386) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Senoufou We have DVDs of 'Oliver!' the musical and 'Oliver Twist', the Polanski-directed film. I must have read Dickens'book dozens of times, and of course the Polanski version is very faithful to it. Sykes actually hangs on that beam, and poor Oliver is taken by Mr Brownlow to visit a mentally ill Fagin in prison before his execution. All very dark and distressing. But the musical, while roughly sticking to most of the plot, is funny and so well-acted. The choreography of the huge crowd scenes of Victorian London is superb, and of course the songs are great fun. We watched the film only a couple of times, but the musical is something we love to put on every Christmas Day. I'm usually a stickler and a pedant when it comes to English literature, but sometimes entertainment value counts for quite a lot! |
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30 Dec 19 - 05:36 AM (#4025423) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG While looking around, I have discovered someone has uploaded the Northern Ballet Theatre's Christmas Carol onto youtube. Not at all sure of the legality of that, but it is there is you want it (1hr 30mins, apparently) |
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30 Dec 19 - 10:46 AM (#4025483) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: keberoxu On the subject of A Christmas Carol, remember the feature-length Mister Magoo cartoon with the voice of actor Jim Backus and the songs of, I believe, Jule Styne? And Mister Magoo, playing the role of Ebenezer Scrooge, startled out of his customary squint and opening his eyes ALL THE WAAAAAAAAAY! That DOES leave an impression on a small child. And yes, I still remember the Jule Styne tunes. |
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30 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM (#4025496) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker As a special new year's treat for "Keep British fictional characters white" malcontents... https://www.backstage.com/uk/magazine/article/diverse-dickens-rips-up-the-rules-of-costume-drama-more-news-69134/ "Diverse Dickens will ‘rip up the rules’ of costume drama The new big-screen adaptation of Dickens’ classic novel David Copperfield will “rip up the rules” of costume drama, says writer and director Armando Iannucci. The Personal History Of David Copperfield premiered in Toronto earlier this year and had its first European screening at the London Film Festival this week. Starring a diverse cast led by Dev Patel, the film also features British East Asian actor Benedict Wong, British-Nigerian Nikki Amuka-Bird and the feature film debut of Rosalind Eleazar. Speaking at the festival, Iannucci and producer Kevin Loader addressed the diverse casting of the film, saying they wanted to “rip up the rules” of period drama casting, adding that Dev Patel was their only choice for the main role. Loader said: “Once he’s your only candidate for David Copperfield, certain things flow,” adding that casting decisions were also intended to reflect the true diversity of Victorian London. Iannucci said among the current debate about “what Britain is and what it is not,” he wanted “to celebrate what I think Britain is, which is something more lively and vibrant.” " Having just enjoyed Iannucci's dark satire "Death of Stalin" where none of the historic characters have Russian accents, this might be a Dickens adaptation to look forward to... |
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30 Dec 19 - 06:33 PM (#4025555) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Nigel Parsons I watched it all, but found it sadly lacking. The 'pissing on gravestones' seemed to be making a point that didn't need to be made. The implied sexual mistreatment of Scrooge by his schoolteacher could be claimed to be a form of back-story to explain Scrooge's misanthropic nature, but from the book, this could just as easily be explained by the fact that his father didn't want him home for the holidays. The idea that if Scrooge changed his ways then Marley would escape purgatory doesn't seem to agree with any version of Christianity that I'm aware of, and Scrooge wouldn't escape just by being good to Tiny Tim. The whole idea of his change (in the book) was that his whole outlook (towards everyone) had changed. After watching the first two episodes I stayed up and watched the Patrick Stewart version just to give me the strength and good humour to watch the dénouement the following night. |
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31 Dec 19 - 12:28 AM (#4025592) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Backwoodsman It was indeed very 'strange' Nigel, and it contained ideas that seemed to have departed from the original story that we're all acquainted with. It was that very 'strangeness' of ideas that Mrs Backwoodsperson found particularly satisfying, but which I struggled with. But, 'strangenesses' apart, there was some damn fine acting going on - Guy Pearce and Vinette Robinson in particular. |
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31 Dec 19 - 04:56 AM (#4025604) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome We have not, to date, received any justification for the statement that the production was "ruined by BBC lefty claptrap" as stated in the opening post. Make of that what you will. |
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31 Dec 19 - 05:31 AM (#4025609) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Backwoodsman And, I venture to suggest, that justification will not be forthcoming, the OP being nothing more than Flamebait (along with the subsequent, disgusting, racist and homophobic posts from the same source). |
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31 Dec 19 - 07:27 AM (#4025630) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs It was as if a gaggle of social workers from Hackney joined the production team!!!!! |
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31 Dec 19 - 07:35 AM (#4025633) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I don't suppose that can be explained either! |
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31 Dec 19 - 08:04 AM (#4025636) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs How nice to see a proper film of The Railway Children in C U H haematology outpatients!!!!! |
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31 Dec 19 - 08:28 AM (#4025638) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Bonzo3legs Consultant seen within 30 minutes of appointment time and blood test readings available after just 90 minutes - thank goodness the tories have put millions into C U H !!!!!!!!!!! |
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31 Dec 19 - 02:11 PM (#4025717) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: robomatic I think the great power of the story shows Dickens' great ability to be on a par with William Shakespeare and has enlarged the meaning of Christmas for the generations since. I do not hold it against the BBC to try a varied approach. Rod Serling wrote his own version in the 1960s which (almost) scared the dickens out of me. I can watch new versions (Bill Murray) but for me the real Scrooge is Alastair Simms. |
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31 Dec 19 - 06:40 PM (#4025757) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: keberoxu That Alastair Simms film is the one that goes to extraordinary lengths to preserve the conversations between the characters -- like those servants who strip Ebenezer Scrooge's bedroom in his absence, in the Yet To Be / Future sequence -- exactly as they are in Dickens. And at top speed, too! |
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31 Dec 19 - 06:43 PM (#4025759) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Dave the Gnome I have no idea what you are on, Bonzo, but a sniff of it could keep a group of hippies gong for a week. |
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01 Jan 20 - 03:29 PM (#4025787) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: WalkaboutsVerse The BBC should be dissolved into an English Broadcasting Corporation, a Scottish BC and a WBC. |
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01 Jan 20 - 07:29 PM (#4025837) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: punkfolkrocker it already is...??? |
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01 Jan 20 - 08:40 PM (#4025844) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: McGrath of Harlow Face it bonzo, by your lights Charles Dickens was a "loony leftie", and he demonstrated that very clearly in "A Christmas Carol": “Forgive me if I am not justified in what I ask,” said Scrooge, looking intently at the Spirit’s robe, “but I see something strange, and not belonging to yourself, protruding from your skirts. Is it a foot or a claw?” “It might be a claw, for the flesh there is upon it,” was the Spirit’s sorrowful reply. “Look here.” From the foldings of its robe, it brought two children; wretched, abject, frightful, hideous, miserable. They knelt down at its feet, and clung upon the outside of its garment. “Oh, Man! look here. Look, look, down here!” exclaimed the Ghost. They were a boy and girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged, scowling, wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where graceful youth should have filled their features out, and touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has monsters half so horrible and dread. Scrooge started back, appalled. Having them shown to him in this way, he tried to say they were fine children, but the words choked themselves, rather than be parties to a lie of such enormous magnitude. “Spirit! are they yours?” Scrooge could say no more. “They are Man’s,” said the Spirit, looking down upon them. “And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!” cried the Spirit, stretching out its hand towards the city. “Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And bide the end!” “Have they no refuge or resource?” cried Scrooge. “Are there no prisons?” said the Spirit, turning on him for the last time with his own words. “Are there no workhouses?” |
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02 Jan 20 - 03:08 AM (#4025865) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: BobL I have always felt that Scrooge was, essentially, a good man led astray by an obsessive dedication to commercial success. He spent years convincing himself that his business values were right and proper, and that anything that stood in their way - like the fake short-lived jollity of Christmas - was wrong. Eventually though, his subconscious broke through via dreams, and at last he came to himself. |
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02 Jan 20 - 03:21 AM (#4025867) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG That's a good reminder, McGrath. I don't think I have seen any production that includes the boy and girl. Powerful characters in a few short sentences. How often do we remember fighting ignorance is a key message of the book (You can even put much of Scrooge's behaviour down to wilful ignorance.) |
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02 Jan 20 - 03:55 AM (#4025869) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Senoufou I seem to remember from my university days (studied Eng Lit among other things) that Dostoevsky much admired Dickens' works, saying that he epitomised the Communist/humanitarian philosophy. He also said that Russian people loved Dickens and that he was widely read (in translation of course) because of his championship of the poor. |
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02 Jan 20 - 06:19 AM (#4025891) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: Nigel Parsons The two children (Ignorance & Want) appear in the Patrick Stewart version YouTube Also 1951 (Alistair Sim)YouTube Cheers, and a Happy New Year Nigel |
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02 Jan 20 - 06:52 AM (#4025899) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: McGrath of Harlow I'd agree with BobL. pretty much, though I'd draw the line at describing Scrooge as having been "essentially a good man". I'd put it as his having been essentially a bad man, but his sins were those of omission rather than commission, He saw himself as acting perfectly correctly, acting in accord with accepted business principle. As for human suffering, that wasn't his responsibility, he paid his taxes and left all that to the authorities. In modern times he'd have been a dedicated tax avoider, while steering just clear of outright tax evasion. So far as the mine accident he'd have pointed out that he hadn't breached any health and safety regulations. If there was any blame for miners deaths it rested those laying down the regulations - and in any case a few industrial accidents were inevitable concomitants of a healthy industrial economy. This latest version differed from that of Dickens by presenting us with a Scrooge who was driven by a totally cynical view of humanity, and determined to prove it. His abuse of Mrs Cratchett was purely an attempt to confirm that everything in this world is driven by self aggrandisement, expressed in money. He never even touched her, because he wasn't interested in that kind of thing. This version switched the emphasis from Scrooge being seen as a representative of a dehumaised social system to his being seen as a screwed up individual with deep psychological scars. I could understand this, but felt it was a mistake. But this was an interesting variant on Dicken's story, and beautifully done. I can't understand what is meant by asserting that variants "ruin" the original. Surely that is one thing we gain from folk music - a recognition that variants don't ruin anything, they just add richness. The original is still there to set against the range of other options of how to do it. I doubt if this version of the story will be one I'll watch most Christmasses (like Alistair Sims one - and the Muppets), but I was glad to be given it - and I think it helps us to understand the original more fully. It's part of its continuing life as giving us an additional kind of myth for the season. |
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02 Jan 20 - 07:02 PM (#4026034) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: WalkaboutsVerse BBC Scotland and BBC Wales do offer some variation in programmes, PFR, but what we need is a proper revolution. |
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03 Jan 20 - 05:59 AM (#4026079) Subject: RE: BS: BBC ruin A Christmas Carol From: DMcG Thanks, Nigel. I have certainly seen the Alistair Sims v we rsion, so should have remembered th yet t at least. |