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23 Jan 20 - 06:08 PM (#4029832) Subject: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu This one is meant to be serious, because of something that happened on Christmas Day. No surprise, of course, if a post appears that is an attempt to deflate this thread; but, meant to be serious. Boston, Massachusetts witnessed a Christmas Day tragedy and if you were near here and had access to mass media at the time, you know the story I mean. |
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23 Jan 20 - 07:15 PM (#4029837) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu In mass media terms, this story is recent enough that it is easy to find multiple versions of reports. I looked long and hard at those details embedded in the reports concerning witnesses and first responders. There is a bus stop, if not a bus station, close to the parking garage, from the high roof of which the tragedy played out. I found an account that one of Boston's MBTA buses had just pulled in; the poor bus driver parked the bus, leaped out of the bus, and ran over to the sidewalk below the garage. By then at least one child was already on the pavement, dying. Photographs can be found of Boston Police Commissioner William Gross (pronounced grawss by the way), in civilian clothes (it was Christmas Day), with one hand covering his mouth as he stands by the security guards, looking over the sidewalk scene. Then there were the first responders who had to take in the three deaths. And this is what I indicate -- meant to indicate -- by "powerless," the people who would have done anything to help but it was too late. |
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23 Jan 20 - 07:53 PM (#4029841) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Why are you posting this here in this vein? |
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23 Jan 20 - 11:05 PM (#4029850) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Joe Offer Yeah, it's probably more suited for Facebook, dontchathink? Maybe a little too smarmy for Mudcat. |
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23 Jan 20 - 11:14 PM (#4029851) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Separated by a common language, are we? I don't speak Facebook. I don't do Facebook. I believe I know what smarmy means. I don't know what the questions mean. Are you asking me to come out from behind the story in the news and talk about my feelings, so as to make this "one of those stupid navel-gazing threads" ? Because that can be arranged. |
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23 Jan 20 - 11:38 PM (#4029852) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I don't understand why there appears to be an issue with this post. How different is it to the Australian bushfires thread? It's a tragedy close to the home of one or a few Mudcatters. I was going to post here and ask why Steve Shaw needed to ask the question he did without making any explanation about his reasoning behind the question and without contributing to the discussion or topic of the thread. |
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24 Jan 20 - 12:35 AM (#4029856) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: leeneia You're right, keb. That's how I feel - powerless. The electoral districts in my state are skewed so that right-wing country folk can vote their reps into state government. They then pass lax gun-control laws so that drugged-dazed felons in the cities can buy automatic weapons on the street and shoot up whoever they choose. Yes, I feel powerless. |
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24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM (#4029921) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou I think we might be talking about empathy here. One feels enormous sadness at such events, but can do nothing about them. I understand how an onlooker at the scene would be absolutely horrified and distressed, but their feeling of powerlessness would make it even worse. I wonder what the poor woman was going through in her life and in her mind to do such a thing. If only someone could have noticed that she wasn't coping, was being abused, was mentally unwell, or whatever, timely intervention/help might have prevented the tragedy. I'm not on Facebook either keberoxu, and I actually think this is a very good topic for us to consider and discuss. |
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24 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM (#4029943) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw I simply asked a question of a person who has form when it comes to heart-on-sleeve, that's all. Nothing wrong with a bit of that, sometimes. I don't have issues with discussing individual tragedies. I'd point out out that we do live in a world in which there are thousands of outrages involving the deaths of children all over the world every year, many perpetrated directly or indirectly as a consequence of actions by western nations. This one is a month old. In the intervening month, thousands of children have died who shouldn't have died. We could be talking about how we get back the power to do something about it. But fire away. That's my last post on this topic, and I only responded now because I appear to be under attack. |
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24 Jan 20 - 01:03 PM (#4029945) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I'm not on Facebook either. I like clear, calm, rational, analytical and compassionate discussions based on respect and integrity. That's why I come to Mudcat. I agree with you Senoufou: that sense of powerlessness relating to empathy and also the overwhelming wish to turn back time so that the person's grave situation could be recognised and helped in some way. |
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24 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM (#4029947) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou Do you know Steve, as I get older (and older!) I'm starting to feel exactly as you point out. So many millions of needless deaths, terrible suffering, anguish and pain all over the world. It's overwhelming at times, an enormous Vale of Tears, and not being immensely rich I can do very little to help. Therefore, one can only do tiny things for one or two people. It's all I can manage, and I often feel very powerless. I do hope you didn't feel attacked by me? We lost our last cat just before Christmas, and the grief was almost beyond bearing. One could point out that one little cat is nothing compared to the vast numbers of suffering/dying people the world over, and I agree. But it's all relative isn't it? And if that poor lady in the incident referred to by keberoxu had been helped in perhaps just small ways, this may not have happened. |
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24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM (#4029959) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw No, it wasn't you. Grrr, you made me post here again! Below-the-line can be a challenging place at times, as I know only too well. Even in the joke thread occasionally... |
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24 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM (#4029960) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Is heart-on-sleeve a bad thing? :-D A few years ago I drove home from work and turned the corner into my street to see a large number of ambulances and police cars. A young high school woman had committed suicide. Even now the people who knew her ask themselves how they could have helped her, how they could have recognised her situation, whether they could have changed the outcome in a positive way, etc, etc. I'll remember that day very vividly for the rest of my life, even though I had only met her a few times. As I turned the corner, I was listening to my car stereo with a Vin Garbutt song playing. The chorus of the song had the young woman's name in it. I didn't realise that until after I found out the reason for the emergency vehicles. The problem with empathy, wearing our hearts on our sleeves, can be knowing when to disconnect and protect our own well being. We can still care, we can still show empathy and try to look out for other people, but we will be no use if we are a mess ourselves. In Australia, there is a project called RU OK aimed at being aware of other people around us who may be not feeling OK or may even be considering suicide. Senoufou, in the last 18 months three of our old cats have passed. It is never easy, and some people don't understand how upsetting it is to lose a close companion just because it is an animal and not a human, but cats and dogs show unconditional love if they are treated well. That's a valuable experience in life. |
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24 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM (#4029961) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I'm guessing it was me, asking you a question about the question you asked. :-) |
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24 Jan 20 - 02:23 PM (#4029963) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Un oeuf said (see joke thread)... |
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24 Jan 20 - 02:29 PM (#4029966) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen No egg on our faces then, Steve? |
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24 Jan 20 - 05:44 PM (#4030002) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Egg jokes are never what they're cracked up to be. In fact, I'm thinking of shelling out for a new yolk book. Omeletting you take the thread on from here... |
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24 Jan 20 - 05:51 PM (#4030004) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou Hehe, I think you poached those gags from a kiddies' comic Steve! |
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24 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM (#4030006) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw I'm desperately trying to avoid jokes about getting laid...far too old for that kind of gag...You can beat an egg but you can't beat a good... Stoppit, Steve... |
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24 Jan 20 - 06:24 PM (#4030007) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Q: Waiter, are these eggs fresh? A: Don't ask me, I just laid the table. |
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24 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM (#4030012) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Heheh. Sorry, keb...maybe we should stop there... |
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24 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM (#4030014) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Letting off steam, a safety valve -- a perfectly healthy thing to do. And humo[u]r is a better way than most to do it. "Form": I have something on my record? you have no idea ... |
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24 Jan 20 - 06:47 PM (#4030015) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jack Campin I don't see a productive line of discussion. Infanticide, suicide and infanticide/suicide are all common but there is no useful generalization you can make about them. I got a story from Texas in my FB feed this morning about a mother addicted to amphetamine who has smothered her three children. There was a Scottish case a few years ago of a wonan who murdered her young son for equally unknowable reasons. When people die of capitalism - despair and destitution - you can say, yes there were things that could have been done, and learn something. But suicide and infanticide are end results and there's nothing there to analyze. |
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24 Jan 20 - 07:49 PM (#4030026) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw I get that, Jack, but there's nowt wrong with adding a little layer of human subjectivity. Yeah, not a lot to analyse. Which is why I asked the question in post three.... |
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24 Jan 20 - 08:33 PM (#4030039) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Joe Offer We've been through this before at Mudcat, and it's something that makes me nervous. Tragedy happens everywhere, and the impact of it gets cheapened when it's reported en masse on a variety of Websites. We've had very nice people here in the past who wanted us to grieve over a new tragedy twice a day. It got old very fast. If there's an issue to discuss, that's a good thing. Bring it up and explain the question you want to discuss, and have an idea ahead of time where you want to go with the discussion. Looking at the first two posts in this thread, it's just another sad thing that happened - nothing that can lead to a productive discussion. There's plenty of sadness that happens in our world, far more than we can deal with. Repeating it in volume serves no purpose - it cheapens it. If you want to discuss something, make sure it's discussable. Otherwise, it's just moving the air around. -Joe- |
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24 Jan 20 - 08:50 PM (#4030040) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jeri My objection is that it's just parroting news. It's not *discussing* anything, just sticking posters up for people to get upset about. But I'm used to it enough that I can usually ignore it. |
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24 Jan 20 - 09:39 PM (#4030043) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw That's exactly it. That's what I think I meant... |
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25 Jan 20 - 04:16 AM (#4030074) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Mr Red Any (wo)man's death saddens me, but so does a burgeoning population. The latter will lead to many more deaths, slowly and almost imperceptibly, (but not to science). And far away, so that's OK? |
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25 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM (#4030150) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu It has dawned on me that my years of living in New Mexico have left me with a trigger in the psychological sense. And that the 2019 Christmas tragedy triggered it. It dates from about 1992, and it made national headlines; I was an Albuquerque resident at the time. Los Angeles Times: The Power of Grief At the time, there was positively no escape from the consequences of this fatal collision. What you don't get from this report, as long ago as it was, is that the story lasted a long, long time in the media. If I recall right, the defendant, who is still alive, went to trial for the incident THREE TIMES: hung jury, change of venue, double jeopardy, you name it, it happened. To shorten the long story, the defendant served time in the penitentiary, but not the whole time of the sentence. 2009, Albuquerque: He was released on parole and has since kept the lowest possible profile. Here is how the relatives of those killed in the collision deal with the Christmas holiday twenty years on. And here is the defendant's son and namesake today. |
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25 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM (#4030152) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jeri Here is a whole bunch of cases, if anyone is looking for other things to be upset by. I mean, if you don't have anything else going on... |
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25 Jan 20 - 02:47 PM (#4030168) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu There is a guideline for not speaking of certain procedures. So I will not speak of the procedure, not at all. While waiting for the inevitable, however, a reflection. One reason that the posts on this thread have followed the course they have, is a consequence of addressing a topic from a certain direction. The results might have been very different if the same topic had been approached from the reverse. This was explained to me, patiently and non-judgmentally, by somebody who knows me unusually well, and who knows how to make suggestions from a place of compassion. (I really really miss this person right now.) "You do everything backwards," this person told me cheerfully, explaining that most other people approach a situation from the opposite place that I do. And this gave me the detachment -- and humor -- needed to look at the problem from a fresh perspective. Using the OP and my succeeding posts as an example. The facts and the data are presented first, from sources with some verification in place. Then there are remarks on how two situations are related. There is my admission that a trigger in my psychological makeup, from my past, links the two situations in my emotions and thoughts. I comment on the survivors and witnesses. And I might say a word or two about how I feel. The results might have been very different had the OP focussed on my feelings, my emotions, what it means to me, and had later posts gradually introduce the journalist links. Or, the procedure might have been inevitable, regardless. |
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25 Jan 20 - 05:50 PM (#4030187) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen keberoxu, I think I understand what you intended from your OP and putting forward facts first is ok in my book. I think I would have done it in a similar way although I possibly would have indicated early in the thread why I thought it was worthwhile to open a discussion about that event, i.e. how reading about the event affected me, my feelings, emotions, and maybe a hint at any triggers relating to my own personal history, without having to reveal personal information on a public forum. It's not easy talking in public about feelings and emotions, and some public events reported in the media can trigger strong feelings, emotions and deep seated responses. I don't see any problem with the OP or the intentions of the thread as I read it. I don't see why other people have taken issue with it. But each to his own, I suppose. One of my strong thoughts about the recent event your OP referred to is that I would be surprised if the issue of domestic violence or abuse in some form or other is not associated with the people involved in the event. There may be a hidden undercurrent to the story. We may never know the full story. Domestic violence is a serious issue and sometimes it is not physical violence but psychological or emotional abuse instead, or sociopathic manipulation of a person's sense of her/himself. That's the trigger which harks back to my own past experience, although I had no children - still have none - and was financially independent. I high-tailed it out of that relationship not too long after I put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together and realised what that poor-excuse-for-a-man was really up to. You have my support in posting this topic. |
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25 Jan 20 - 05:59 PM (#4030188) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu There are not satisfactory words, besides Thank You, to express my gratitude to those members whose posts here are supportive and empathetic. Your encouragement is something to cherish. There are some obvious connections between the two different stories about which I posted. One occurred on Christmas Eve/midnight-ish; the other, on Christmas Day in broad daylight. In both cases, a mother and all of her children were killed, and the husband/father was left alone to deal with it all. Perhaps that last is the most primal part of the trigger in my case. The Christmas Eve deaths, after all, had nothing to do with domestic tensions within a family -- it was a case of a head-on collision with someone driving under the influence. But an entire family, in each case, was reduced to a bereft husband/father, the others all gone. Helen, you have MY support in broadening this topic to include your own experience, and I thank you. |
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25 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM (#4030191) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jeri My main problem is that facts were NOT presented. It started off sounding (to me) like "Some bad shit happened on Christmas in Boston. The end." No clue what you intended to talk about, or rather, what you intended other people to talk about. I've said all I'll say on this, so my best to you. |
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25 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM (#4030194) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Thing is, Helen, it isn't really a question of "taking issue with it." It's more a question of why, just maybe, it's better to look outwards and, well try to enjoy your life a bit more... |
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25 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM (#4030199) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: robomatic I appreciate the sentiment. Just before reading this an acquaintance was relating how she was on a main street on her way here and a car was T-Boned at apeed to her left and sailed over her with car parts and car insides flying. Her two children were with her and they, she, and car were narrowly missed by the debris. She was trying to calm herself down and unpack it. I suggested she write down the events and date it, something I've done in similar circumstances. As for the unsentimentals who merely wish to add irrelevant jokes and observations ('die of capitalism'?), now I know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall. |
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25 Jan 20 - 06:50 PM (#4030200) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu The car sailed OVER the car that she was driving? Darned right she must have felt powerless! |
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25 Jan 20 - 06:51 PM (#4030201) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jack Campin I had somebody specific in mind who died of capitalism last year (more precisely, Brexit, the London housing market and a pathological family who seem to estimate people purely in terms of financial success). I posted a brief mention of her suicide last year. There is nothing the least bit funny about that waste of her life. |
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26 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM (#4030338) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: robomatic I keep remembering your endorsement of RFK's assassination. Funny how you pick and choose what ISN'T funny. |
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26 Jan 20 - 03:17 PM (#4030360) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: robomatic And I STILL don't get what that has to do with Capitalism. To dive into misquotes of the NT for a moment, it isn't money that is the root of all evil. But the LOVE of money. That isn't the same thing as Capitalism. |
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26 Jan 20 - 03:27 PM (#4030363) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu … darn if I'm not feeling powerless again … the dinosaurs are roaring at each other above my pigpen. |
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26 Jan 20 - 03:54 PM (#4030376) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Pigeons are dinosaurs. |
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26 Jan 20 - 04:18 PM (#4030382) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu I quite agree about pigeons. |
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26 Jan 20 - 05:53 PM (#4030399) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Bonnie Shaljean Except that dinosaurs don't crap all over the patio. |
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26 Jan 20 - 05:58 PM (#4030401) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Oh yes they do. The scientific consensus is that birds are theropod dinosaurs... |
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21 Feb 20 - 03:26 AM (#4035315) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen A recent event in Australia has sparked a huge amount of debate on what can be done to stop domestic violence against women and sometimes children. Can't we all agree killing women and children is wrong? This is about that powerless feeling. And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females. If this topic was about Donald Trump, or Brexit, or a myriad other topics which pop up in the BS/Breeze Shooting section below the line, then the topic would probably not be hijacked by people saying that the topic is not worth discussing. There may be angry denials or arguments about the topic, there may be people erroneously (or not) taking generic comments personally and going off in a huff but staying to make their personal perceived affronts heard, but the topic would continue to be discussed or argued until it reached a logical end. The sense of powerlessness felt, not only by the victims of domestic violence, but also by witnesses to the events, or even members of the general public who are shocked to the core by the actions of some people, (statistically most often men) against members of their families, (most often women and sometimes also children) is a real emotional response. Sometimes a victim's sense of powerlessness becomes the trap which enables the perpetration of violence and possibly murder, because the victim believes that s/he can do nothing to break the cycle, or that no one will believe her/him, or the system is against her/him. But that sense of powerless also pervades media coverage. Why does this still keep happening? What can we do to prevent this? What is the government doing about this? Why has major funding been cut to essential domestic violence support organisations? It's all about powerlessness. The focus somehow needs to be shifted to facilitating a sense of power to take control of our lives when we are potentially in danger, and a lot of theat starts, in my opinion, by being able to recognise that danger, recognise the signs in time to avert disaster. |
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21 Feb 20 - 05:10 AM (#4035332) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Well I've never read any flippant or dismissive comments from male or otherwise members of this forum about abuse of women and children, or read any remarks that it's not worth discussing. Of course it's a vitally important topic for public discussion, but your wrong-headed, preemptive bollocking of people who up to this point have done nothing wrong in this context is, well, let's say, a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater (that isn't even dirty). |
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21 Feb 20 - 06:03 AM (#4035357) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Doug Chadwick And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females. Helen, On 24 Jan 20, there was a series of posts which strayed from the subject with weak puns based on eggs. One of the posters was male and two were female, with more than one post coming from you. Admittedly, Steve started it but he also stopped it with an apology to the OP. "Judge not, that ye not be judged" DC |
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21 Feb 20 - 06:05 AM (#4035358) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou I think that killing anyone (sex or age regardless) is wrong. My father would have disagreed with me and loudly proclaimed that defending one's country and killing the enemy in wartime is necessary, but then he had been thoroughly indoctrinated by patriotism as he fought in WW2. He also supported the death penalty, which I have problems with too. Pacifism isn't simple. Apparently there are more cases of women killing men/children than most people realise. I should imagine that most of these tragedies are the result of either mental illness, fear or despair. I have noticed that the Meedja (folk messaging, commenting, mocking, criticising, trolling, bullying and so on) seems to be causing a lot of distress and depression, particularly among the young. There has been a lot of comment lately about mental health issues and support for those affected. |
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21 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM (#4035371) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw Yes, Doug, we strayed from the thread for a few posts but there was nothing disrespectful or dismissive said. The rather heavy dough was leavened just for a little while. Even the thread's initiator appreciated the brief injection of humour, if you look back. Nothing to apologise for there, and I repeat my oft-stated position that anyone is welcome to take the conversation anywhere they like in any thread of mine (because, once it's out here, it's not mine any more). |
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21 Feb 20 - 03:19 PM (#4035410) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Helen, thank you for what you have posted. You have expressed your position in words more eloquent than I seem able to come up with myself. And you have emphasized the legitimacy of the topic with the link to the editorial that confirms that many people struggle against being overwhelmed emotionally both by the polarized and polarizing debates, and by the human tragedies that set off the debates in the first place. Thank you for your continued effort to lay a foundation for a way for the socially empathic to support each other in spite of the questions, doubts, and incomprehension of others. |
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21 Feb 20 - 04:54 PM (#4035422) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen After just re-reading the whole thread (not for the first time) I think one aspect of incomprehension expressed initially by some people about this thread might be because they read the OP's first and second post and perhaps forgot to look at the title of the thread: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic). In the context of the title, it was obvious to me what the first and second post were aimed at. The title explained the intention of the thread. I suppose we could just put our heads in the sand and ignore other people's pain. Or we could empathise with that pain and try to find ways to help other people, and especially to recognise that pain when those people could benefit from support. The sense of powerlessness is usually, in my experience, felt after a tragic event of violence or suicide has occurred and I wonder why I didn't recognise the indications of the person's pain beforehand, and why I didn't or couldn't take action to try to help that person. I even feel this sense of powerlessness when I read about events in the media and didn't know the people involved, because I know how prevalent domestic abuse is in society and I know that we all could be doing more to try to turn this situation around. |
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21 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM (#4035428) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw So, Helen, now that you've read the whole thread, etc., perhaps you'd care to retract this ridiculous and unfair comment: "And before certain male members of the Mudcat community start to make flippant comments or to try to deflect the conversation away from this topic, take a moment to think about why those flippant or deflective comments were more often made by males and not females." |
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21 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM (#4035445) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu I think the division here is deeper than it appears, and not strictly a gender thing. Because I know of such people in real life, it is easy to believe that such people are amongst the Mudcat membership: people whose conversations are not limited to debate or discussion, but who also commiserate with each other. This is not a gender question, is what I am trying to say. Men are among us who need, as much as some women need, to have people to talk to amongst whom they can be vulnerable and open up. By the same token, people who are rational, intellectual, and impatient with the empathy of others can also be women, and Mudcat members. Do I sympathize with Helen? Well, naturally! But I respectfully suggest that this isn't so simple. |
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22 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM (#4035522) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Jealousy, Possessiveness, Put Downs, Threats and Violence signs of abusive relationships It is not always easy to identify if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence or is in an abusive relationship. Violence and abuse are experienced in many different ways. Below are a few examples of abuse signs. These behaviours are typical of the jealousy, possessiveness, put downs, threats and violence that occur in domestic violence and abusive relationships. A woman may be experiencing abuse if a man in her life: • unfairly and regularly accuses her of flirting or being unfaithful • controls how she spends money • decides what she wears or eats • humiliates her in front of other people • monitors what she is doing, including reading her emails and text messages • discourages or prevents her from seeing friends and family • threatens to hurt her, the children or pets • physically assaults her (hitting, biting, slapping, kicking, pushing) • yells at her • threatens to use a weapon against her • constantly compares her with other people • constantly criticises her intelligence, mental health and appearance • prevents her from practicing her religion. An analysis of contributions by a hypothetical person to a hypothetical thread. Statistics. Total posts by all contributors to the hypothetical thread = 55 Total posts by one person to the hypothetical thread = 15 (27%) Total posts by that one person which specifically comment on the topic of the thread not counting a challenge posted immediately after the thread commenced = 2 (13% of own posts) Total word count of that one person posting to thread = 600 which is approximately 10% of total word count of thread. Total word count of that one person’s comments on the topic of the thread = 100 (16% of own posts, or 1.6% of all words in thread, not counting quotes of other people’s posts) Two comments on the topic being: * Don’t worry, be happy, we don’t need to focus on dark topics like this, just enjoy life. * Why are we still talking about this topic. No one wants to talk about this topic. There is nothing we can do to change this issue so let’s not talk about it. Posts by this person claiming to be under attack = 2 (13% of own posts) Posts by this person making derisive comments about other people posting on the thread = 1 Posts claiming that s/he will not post again to this thread = 1 (being post #2 followed by 13 more posts) Post exhibiting a classic sign of claiming s/he is not responsible for own actions = 1 "you made me post here again" See What You Made Me Do Posts agreeing with other people who have stated that there is no point discussing this topic = 2 (13% of own posts) So, does this relate to the signs of domestic violence or abuse? Hypothetically if a certain person attempts to: humiliate a person or persons in front of other people monitor what they are doing, including reading their posts discourage or prevent them from communicating and conversing with friends and like minded people abuse them constantly compare them with other people constantly criticise their intelligence and interests prevent them from participating in group activities which fit their beliefs and life principles and I will add, constantly demand apologies for perceived slights and, have one rule for self and another rule for others and, have a tendency to target persons of the other gender then in my estimation there are enough signs for recognising what would be domestic abuse in a domestic situation. Obviously, as members of an online forum we are not privy to the personal lives of other members of the forum, and I would certainly not presume to make unfounded assumptions on the personal lives of other members of this forum. That is not my intention at all. So, as this is an online forum, then I would pose the question on whether the actions of this person constitutes the actions of a troll especially if this can be shown to be repeated behaviour over a significant period of time and within many, many other threads. And is it just a coincidence that this hypothetical person in this hypothetical thread is placing obstacles in the path of others attempting to discuss the topic of domestic violence or abuse? |
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22 Feb 20 - 03:52 PM (#4035529) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou A very comprehensive analysis Helen, and most interesting. I often have a look at Mumsnet (although I don't ever post on there) and many of the threads about domestic/emotional/financial/physical abuse are heartbreaking. One can never know what goes on behind closed doors, but people should always feel they can confide in someone, either a family member, a close friend, the Samaritans and even the lovely people here on Mudcat and other forums. Isolation is probably one of the most common reasons for a person to break down mentally and be unable to get help. It would be nice if everyone tried to be kind in life, and make people feel they can turn to one for assistance. . |
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22 Feb 20 - 04:18 PM (#4035531) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jeri Senoufou, I agree. It would be great if everyone tried to be kind. I don't understand the motivation of people who try to be snotty. They must be getting something out of it, but I don't understand what. Life must be hell for them. Maybe it's just about what sort of person they were raised to believe they should be. I feel sorry for them, a little, but when they attack and ridicule someone who needs some sympathy, , it shows some fear on their part. At least they're letting everyone see that. |
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22 Feb 20 - 04:21 PM (#4035533) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu I observe, from where I am watching, two opposite positions that are becoming increasingly hostile towards each other. It is starting to get personal here, and emotion is in the mix. I find this alarming. |
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22 Feb 20 - 04:32 PM (#4035537) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw No hostility from me. This is not real life here. I shrug. And I'm having a really pleasant evening with a couple of good mates, so I must be off. Hostility could well be in the eye of the exceptionally needy beholder... |
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22 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM (#4035544) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Just a statistical analysis of the posts. No hostility. Just putting forward some facts. |
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23 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM (#4035573) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen St. Helena is known by Catholics as the Patron Saint of the Cross and Intercessor for converts, divorce, difficult marriages, archeologists, fire, thunder, needle makers and empresses. Appropriate for the topic of this thread, I think. Patron saint of divorce and difficult marriages. Looks like I am a saint after all. :-D |
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23 Feb 20 - 04:03 AM (#4035591) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou Ah Helen, take no notice of Steve. I think he's constipated at the moment. I'll administer an enema and then he'll cheer up. |
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23 Feb 20 - 02:31 PM (#4035702) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Iains I have heard mustard enemas give splendid results! But I have also heard it is better to give than to receive.(Acts 20:35) |
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23 Feb 20 - 02:36 PM (#4035707) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Senoufou Pwahahaaaagh Iains! Adds more meaning to "Get thee behind me Satan" eh? |
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23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM (#4035710) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu I happen to sympathize with those post to this thread that are militant in a positive way: militant about going to the facts and speaking the truth. There are nay-sayers on this thread as well, and the nay-saying sounds defensive, so not as strong. |
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23 Feb 20 - 03:40 PM (#4035724) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I just read this article. It makes sense to me that people who have been through catastrophe have a lot to deal with emotionally: A new bushfire crisis is emerging as experts brace for an imminent surge in domestic violence "For years experts have been studying the links between natural disasters and violence, with evidence suggesting events like earthquakes, hurricanes and bushfires can unmask or exacerbate domestic abuse, particularly against women, as a result of factors like trauma, financial hardship, unemployment and drug and alcohol use. "In Australia, research conducted after Black Saturday in 2009 found there had been a reported increase in domestic abuse in bushfire-affected communities, with some women disclosing the crisis had triggered violence including in male partners who'd never before been abusive." ........ It's a long article, but worth reading because it raises a lot of complex issues. In relation to this thread, here is a quote in the article from a survivor of domestic violence: "Thinking through it now, the core of abuse is to do with power and control over another person, and when this monster of a bushfire came through, I think his feelings of control were threatened. He had no control, he'd lost all of his possessions, but the one thing he thought he could control was me, and our relationship." My comment: So that sense of powerlessness can be part of the trigger for domestic violence. Blokes are "supposed" to be in control, and be the strong ones, are "supposed" to look after their families in crisis, and the catastrophic disasters can make them question how well they are performing that perceived role, and they feel that they cannot just drop the manly facade and say, I feel bad. If they are unable to deal with these feelings, and if the other blokes around them all seem to be holding themselves together (probably because they don't want to admit what they perceive as a weakness) then it is very difficult for any one man to say, "I feel like I failed as a man". This would be more difficult out in farming and rural communities, I think, because a lot of farming and rural blokes may not have ever questioned the traditional gender role stereotypes. I know that this is a different perspective on the original post in this thread, but it still relates to a sense of powerlessness. In the big picture, there are definitely no easy answers to the issues surrounding domestic related violence and abuse. |
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23 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM (#4035731) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Helen, I think you are on to something. Actually your post reminds me of a particular thing. Actress Samantha Morton (English) had a turbulent upbringing. Neither of her parents could hold things together, and the children -- I forget how many, Samantha has a number of siblings -- ended up in care. Years later Samantha made a film, "The Unloved," which aired on television. Her own story was the framework of the film. Robert Carlyle was cast as the little girl's father, and for his acting he won a Scottish BAFTA for Best Actor. Almost the first thing you see in the film is the father, asking this little girl for the money he had handed to her. When it isn't in her pocket, the father loses his temper and takes his belt to her. Carlyle has since disclosed to interviewers that when he received the script, and read that scene, it made him sick to his stomach -- he is himself a devoted father of three. One of the other memorable things in the film is a lengthy scene between the little girl and her mother; the parents, in the film, are separated (also true in Samantha's life). The mother is alcoholic, though, and thoroughly self-involved, which is one reason that the children get put into care. In fact, in "The Unloved," the parent to whom the little girl feels the deepest devotion and affection is that father, never mind that he is a hitter; the child has more affection for him than for her indifferent mother. And it is clear that the father honestly adores the child, when his temper is where it ought to be. But the father is so completely marginalized that he takes out his helplessness on whoever is more powerless than he. |
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25 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM (#4036155) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I know I have said this before, but I used to have anger issues, especially when I was younger. After a lot of soul searching I realised that I would let loose with my anger when I felt powerless. After I had that eureka moment it became easier over the years to work out better strategies for dealing with the issues making me angry. I also realised that I cry when I am angry, but it's because of the effort of trying to hold in my feelings. Still a link to powerlessness, except that I was then trying to redirect the anger into something more productive and useful. |
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08 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM (#4038226) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg When I was younger I had a great amount, an unhealthy amount, of power.I have never felt powerless against humans, but certainly against natural forces (or wicked humans). But I have never felt OH I ACHE WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING FOR YOUR APPROVAL. I feel get out of my way you little worm or I will step on you. |
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09 Mar 20 - 01:35 AM (#4038429) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu There is a reason that this topic won't go away by itself. And there are reasons that the members who are moved by this topic, who take it personally, turn a deaf ear to the opinions of those who find it distasteful that a member, so moved, makes himself or herself vulnerable and lets us see their vulnerable side, flaws, nastiness, and all. Too bad for those who find our disclosures "a little too smarmy for Mudcat." Maybe it would be more accurate to say " a little too smarmy for a very vocal percentage of members." No, those of us with something to say/contribute are not aiming for perfection in posting to a thread like this. You all can criticize the OP, what words were used, what words were not used, what format ought to be followed in opening a thread, from here to doomsday. If there is no one receptive to the OP or what it points to, then the thread will die the death anyhow. Otherwise, for a moment, look at this point of view: those of us whose life experiences have taught us painful lessons about limitation, deprivation, denigration, and more, those of us whose lives since have been about progress not perfection, we don't resonate to being told how to post perfectly. We respond to what is possible, not to what is perfect, and possibility, on the other side of painful experience, is what liberates us from expecting the worst of life and living. |
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09 Mar 20 - 02:05 AM (#4038434) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Beautifully said, keberoxu. And I will add, that those of us who needed to be in this thread will continue despite whatever obstacles are thrown at us, to say what we wish to say, or in fact, what we need to say. Happy International Women's Day week. Helen Reddy - I Am Woman (1971) |
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09 Mar 20 - 02:43 AM (#4038436) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg If anyone is in a fragile state, don't worry as much about the ones who are always mean (any gender against any other gender...I thought I made it clear but I oversimplified I guess). The ones who are always mean, you know what you are dealing with. Protect yourself from those who are one minute nice, the next nasty, the next it is your fault that you did something that made them retort. Those are the ones to watch out for and avoid and to just not let into your life until you are stronger than they are. |
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09 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM (#4038460) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw To be prosaic, and determinedly neutral, the reason topics don't sink from view is because someone posts to them. Until yesterday no-one had posted to this one for almost two weeks. Another reason, one which I've never understood, is someone, quite often the topic instigator, posting "refresh." It's your baby I suppose, and you hate to see it sinking into the Mudcat melee... Topics are like songs. If no-one posts, they sink from view. Songs exist only when someone sings them. The mighty thing about topics and songs is that you can always create a new one. That's by far the best way to "refresh." Apologies for the cod philosophy... |
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09 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM (#4038616) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen The mighty thing about a song which needs to be sung is that attempts to stifle the singing don't work. |
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09 Mar 20 - 05:19 PM (#4038622) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen A reminder about what this topic is about. This was a comment early in the thread: From: Senoufou - PM Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM "I think we might be talking about empathy here. One feels enormous sadness at such events, but can do nothing about them. I understand how an onlooker at the scene would be absolutely horrified and distressed, but their feeling of powerlessness would make it even worse. "I wonder what the poor woman was going through in her life and in her mind to do such a thing. If only someone could have noticed that she wasn't coping, was being abused, was mentally unwell, or whatever, timely intervention/help might have prevented the tragedy." This is a mighty song which needs to be sung. |
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09 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM (#4038624) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw It's the grudge that keeps on giving, isn't it, Helen? I see that my neutrality fell on stony ground... |
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09 Mar 20 - 07:40 PM (#4038653) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: punkfolkrocker Oh.. I've not noticed this thread.. I wonder if it's worth trying to read it from scratch...??? I'll bookmark it now, anyway... |
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09 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM (#4038664) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Mossback Save yourself the time & effort PFR - not worth it, its just modified Buzz Flies take 2 - or take 1 chronologically. |
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09 Mar 20 - 10:02 PM (#4038673) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Steve Shaw The thread was a very bad conception in the first place, the initiator posting, seemingly randomly, as she did about a one-off tragedy that is unconnected to anyone here, a month after it happened, in a world full of outrages and tragedies, about which none of us could do anything. Even the mods could see no merit in it. Nothing to learn. Let's pluck something from the air that we can all get mournful about (as if there isn't enough of that around...). The people getting all precious about it now are some of the same people who indulged in the temporary levity provided by a string of egg jokes. "A reminder about what this topic is about..." Sure, Helen. Did you remind yourself that egg jokes had no place after all then, or are you still OK with that little diversion that you gleefully joined in with? |
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09 Mar 20 - 10:49 PM (#4038676) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Yesterday was the funeral for the woman and her three children. I mentioned them previously in this thread. The woman's partner and father of the children poured petrol (gas) on all of them and set them alight in the car they were sitting in. They had no chance of escape. Domestic violence or abuse is a topic which we all need to be able to discuss. Trying repeatedly to avoid discussing this topic and trying repeatedly to prevent others from discussing this topic just raises one great big red flag, in my opinion. And if these repeated attempts occur over a long period then the red flag gets bigger and bigger, especially if the people attempting to stifle the discussion resort to personal insults and aggression aimed at the people who do want to discuss the topic. If a person is not interested in the topic and/or does not want to discuss it then that person should leave the thread and find a topic more relevant to his own interests. |
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09 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM (#4038678) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg someone said something your song. this one has been going through my head. I like it best when a huge group sings it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=empGgV8Usvk I will look for a more vigorous version because it is a very powerful song. Never underestimate the power of song..was it Latvia? Estonia? that had the singing revolution? I wish I could write songs like this. I was at coffee once with Pat Humphries and others and she said what kind of song do you wish you could write..and I wanted to say exactly like you do. |
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09 Mar 20 - 11:31 PM (#4038685) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Beautiful, mg. A quiet power. Never underestimate quiet power. |
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09 Mar 20 - 11:33 PM (#4038686) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: punkfolkrocker I've never had or wanted power over any other folks.. The exception being, only if we willingly consent to treating each other as equals, and share any meagre power we might have together, for our mutual benefit... I've never respected control freaks.. Now to decide if I think it's worth properly reading this thread... |
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09 Mar 20 - 11:54 PM (#4038687) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen pfr, think of it like walking through a cow paddock. Watch out for cow pats but enjoy the walk. |
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10 Mar 20 - 12:55 AM (#4038691) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrTf5yOW5s&list=RDDVrTf5yOW5s&start_radio=1&t=62 great story song by Rhiannon Gibbons another one i cant find...mama o by a group called palamino. can't find it on google but i now it is on youtube. about looking for lost relatives after slavery "ended" in US. Best song I heard last year. My family story is entangled in slavery and I have cousins on ancestry from cameroon. first one I thought..cool. second one..what a coincidence. next couple of dozen or so I go what the hell and I figured it out. I should go to Cameroon and try to apologize. But also on my mother's side is a large Quaker population..many from Derbyshire England. Came either with William Penn or on next ship. made it to Derby and Bonsall ..so many daffodils.. there last year and hope to this year. From the Bonsall area. We really should talk about our ancestors more... |
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10 Mar 20 - 01:20 AM (#4038692) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: punkfolkrocker I still haven't read back on this thread yet, and need to try get some sleep.. But ancestors.. I recently found an online photo of Jews being rounded up and herded from their home town in Europe, by n@zis.. The branch of my mother's family tree which was pruned mercilessly.. That faded blurry photo depicted powerlessness as clearly as anything... Some of those unknown individuals, may very likely have been my distant family...??? |
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10 Mar 20 - 01:26 AM (#4038693) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen pfr and mg, Tracing your ancestors can be a confronting exercise. The saddest episodes of Who Do You Think You Are seem to be the ones where the holocaust or slavery are mentioned. Yes, that defines powerlessness. |
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10 Mar 20 - 02:20 AM (#4038696) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg I can not find my Irish father's ancestors at all. Potato famine of course. Not a one although second cousins wrote and said Bridget Quinn is your gggm. Someone else wrote and said Mary Fitzgerald is your gggm. But I think she was a generation before. Mother's family paternal side was very colonial virginia with all known abuses of the day. Very easy to trace.I could find 200 new ones a day. Descended..if I am correct..from all sorts of english, norwegian, scottish royalty. lots of norman. lots of stewarts. the usual sinclairs. ancient welsh. mother's maternal was dutch who intermarried with engish/early settlers of usa. People always guess I am Norwegian, which totally confuses me because I don't think I do at all..maybe Cornish...but my crone like hair is growing out and when I braid it I can see Norwegian. I don't see a speck of Irish although I am half. We have a lot of prejudice in the US...but not just the known about ones...we are very very prejudiced, and it is socially blessed, against southerners if we are northerners or from other countries. |
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10 Mar 20 - 03:21 AM (#4038699) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg guess who just followed me? Bill Gates. True. I won't say where though. I mean in a virtual way. |
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11 Mar 20 - 10:41 AM (#4039017) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu It's The Incredible Shrinking Thread, that's what it is. Most threads, over time, get longer; but this thread gets shorter every day ... |
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11 Mar 20 - 02:06 PM (#4039059) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: punkfolkrocker Girls versus Boys = there are no winners...!!!!! Except for the ruling elites who depend on divide and rule strategies for clinging onto their undeserved power. By succumbing to distracting divisive stupid infighting between ourselves, we will remain powerless useful idiots... |
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11 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM (#4039061) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I agree, pfr. "useful" or "useless". :-D |
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11 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM (#4039063) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen We just want to discuss this topic but a couple of people want to shut this discussion down for some reason. Is domestic violence or abuse or suicide or human's inhumanity to humans so confronting to some people that not only do they not want to discuss it, but they don't want anyone else to discuss it? What does it say about people who want to shut down this discussion? Does this invite speculation about those people's own proclivities towards hurting other people especially in light of the prolonged lengths that they will go to get their own way? The prolonged lengths they will go try to take legitimate power from other people? Methinks some people doth protest too much. |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM (#4039097) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg obvious use of folk music to discuss tragedy..coal mines, shipwrecks, murder etc. all morning the banks of ohio has been going through my head..sung by Olivia Newton John..I don't know if it helps us cope, or understand or what. I do believe that commemorating people in ship disasters is an old tradition..likewise mining. I don't think we tend to write songs about car accidents, etc., although there was a run of them in the late 60s..but it is certainly one way to commemorate people..and when people discuss the uses of folk music..political, ecological etc.they rarely bring this up. But every person's story has a song lurking in it somewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM (#4039098) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MilfP2fVLhU banks of the ohio |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:32 PM (#4039101) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg Pondering this subject further, I am thinking more and more. One song that seems just over the top, written by an overwrought Victorian songstress. Give me three grains of corn mother, about a boy in the potato famine asking for just three grains of corn to keep himself alive. Well, guess what..it is a true story. To the best of my memory, it was reported in a coroner's report in County Mayo..was somehow published in a USA paper almost immediately and a woman wrote the poem. I think there is an old tune and I think the link I will post the tune was probably written by the singer. Anyway, in the coroner's report, they emptied his pockets and found three grains of corn. So you just never know. three grains of corn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sE37m8U7Eo |
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11 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM (#4039129) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen Three grains of corn is a sad song. Powerless. Yes. The Banks of the Ohio reminds me of this: Miss Otis Regrets - The Pogues & Kirsty MacColl |
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11 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM (#4039131) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0 father abraahm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5fDOiQJA0 One of my strongest DNA ancestors is Marietta Deacons from New England..moved to Michigan. Totally touched by the civil war. First husband died, think her father and brother died in war. Someone was in Andersonville prison. She leads back to my Quaker ancestry. Her DNA is so strong..I don't know why others don't seem to have donated as much. Well, she must have been a very strong woman. I also have ancestors on the other side of the civil war. Anyway, thought of that song. |
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14 Mar 20 - 07:13 PM (#4039572) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Helen I had to sit with Hubby at the hospital for a few hours on Friday so I grabbed a book off the bookshelves. Dolores Claiborne, by Stephen King. I've seen the movie, read the book years ago. I'm only about a third of the way through it this time and then it dawned on me that it is about domestic violence or abuse, in one form or another. So of course I thought of this thread. I bought the DVD of the movie a few years ago. I'm guessing I'll probably watch it again after I have finished reading the book. |
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14 Mar 20 - 07:14 PM (#4039573) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Sorry, mg, but I have a question about a recent post of yours because one word looks like it was 'corrected' by the spell-checker to something that has no sense. I'm looking at one of your 10 March posts, the one at 2:20 AM (according to Mudcat time, which is Eastern USA time). You are speaking of ancestry and ethnic origins, and of racial / social prejudices. That sentence near the end. Did you actually mean to say: "...we are very very prejudiced, and it is socially BIASED ..." because the post actually says "and it is socially blessed." Am I mistaken? |
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14 Mar 20 - 08:53 PM (#4039589) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: mg No. I meant blessed in the sense that people look around for a group they can be prejudiced against with social approval. Once social approval deteriorates they will look for another group. It is how some get their jollies. |
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16 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM (#4040032) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu ... there are people all over the civilized world feeling powerless right about now ... |
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03 May 20 - 05:46 PM (#4050195) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu This thread was begun before the coronavirus pandemic surged in such a way as to be impossible to evade or avoid in everyday life. Since then all of us have been confronted on some level or other with a threat to life itself, and more specifically, a threat which makes it possible for an asymptomatic person, reasonably healthy, to contaminate the environment of any other vulnerable person so as to expose them to a deadly disease for which there is no vaccine and little if any cure -- a threat which makes it possible for a person with the best intentions to contribute toward the sickening and death of who knows how many others. And the dying isn't over yet. And on another subject, metaphorically speaking, Clancy has Lowered the Boom in the BS section of the Mudcat forum. I don't have to tell you what collective 'Clancy' represents. Although, just my opinion here, I'm surprised we have not heard from Mudcat's mighty Max on the subject. Maybe 'Clancy' will close this thread because I spoke of this. Ugh. Going to leave the computer now. Sound pollution in my environment, shall say no more. |
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04 May 20 - 08:48 AM (#4050348) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: Jeri I watch the news reports of the idiots "protesting" having to wear masks, and wonder where the tear gas from the Black Lives Matter protests is. Or maybe it would blow back into the various state houses. Somebody, sometime, is going to fire a shot, and then all hell breaks forth. |
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04 May 20 - 07:14 PM (#4050530) Subject: RE: BS: that powerless feeling (sensitive topic) From: keberoxu Yes, Jeri, one of those state houses today was in Boston, and I am ashamed of the lot of them. And how right you are about the emotional and psychological tinder-box that results from people being restricted for any length of time. One spark, and the whole box explodes. Does it really have to get this much worse before it gets better? |