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05 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM (#4037593) Subject: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman So, the latest closure of the single permitted UK Politics thread has happened due, once again, to the Trolling activities, ad hominem attacks, and insulting language of one contributor. However, it cannot be denied that the apparent inability of a number of otherwise-sensible posters to ignore the Troll undoubtedly encouraged his behaviour, and contributed to the closure of the thread. Hopefully, the Mods will allow this thread to run but, if it is to be a success, it is absolutely essential that everyone ignores the Troll. Do not respond to him, don’t talk to him, don’t talk about him or about his posts. Now, on to business. I watched the Andrew Neil interviews with Kier Starmer and Rebecca Long-Bailey last night, and I couldn’t help but wish their respective political stances were reversed. RLB is undoubtedly the more driven, and immediately ‘likeable’ of the two. She’s unafraid of the bullying tactics of interviewers like Neil, and fights back when he tries to beat her down, but I fear her continuing support of policies rejected by the electorate in the 2019 GE will continue to render the LP unelectable. KS, on the other hand, always comes over as ‘stodgy’ and slightly ‘shifty’, and seems very discomfitted by aggressive interview-techniques. Yet he and his policies are, IMHO, very much more likely to give the LP a chance at election-time and, of course, before the LP can begin to rebuild the country from the disasters of the past ten years and the coming five years under Tory mis-rule, it has to get itself elected. I’m not a member of the LP, I’m not even a natural Labour-voter, but since the 2010 election/coalition debacle, I’ve regarded Labour as the best party to run the country for the benefit of the vast majority of the population. However, I’m very doubtful about either of the leading candidates being able to take the LP to victory in 2024 or even the GE after that - one because her policies won’t suit the voting public, the other because he lacks the personality. For once, I hope I’m wrong, but I fear I’m right. What says everyone else? |
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05 Mar 20 - 03:50 AM (#4037600) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Acorn4 Don't ignore Lisa Nandy. Represents a northern constituency and seems to be able to deal with tough questions. RLB always seems a bit acid to me and Keir Starmer just Ed Miliband in a more expensive suit. |
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05 Mar 20 - 03:57 AM (#4037603) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman You’re right about Lisa, Acorn4, but I was specifically interested in the interviews last night. Those two are being touted as the ‘most likely’, but who knows...? |
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05 Mar 20 - 04:47 AM (#4037612) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Mr Red History has to repeat itself, nobody s listening: Now let me see, Michael Foot sincere and principled (& left-handed?) yet never won a (national) election. Followed by a genial, lovable Neil Kinnock, who was a good foil for Thatcher yet didn't win an election (yea yea the SDP et al but that was a reaction (or kick?) to Foot) Now we have Corbyn, sincere and principled (aka Left Bank) and defections, and who is the most likely replacement? What is needed is a forceful character as a foil for the bumbling mop-haired, philandering puppet, because we certainly have self-imposed troubled times ahead, paralleled by Thatchers policies. OK, this time we have COVID-19 and the floods and fire (Saddleworth Moor?) to remind us of the the lesson history could teach us. Nero and fiddling while Rome burns. Yea yea he was a lyre. But his story does have twists, you have to learn from history not twat on with Priti childish irrelevances - YA BOO SUCKS, wot floods ? |
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05 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM (#4037613) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Thanks John. I doubt that this thread will last much longer but you never know. Going purely off achievements to date, Starmer is leading by a country mile. I took a chance on Corbyn and sadly it didn't pay off. I think that both Long-Bailey and Nandy are more of a gamble and I'm not sure I want to risk it again. Still, I've got plenty of time to be convinced otherwise :-) |
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05 Mar 20 - 05:21 AM (#4037616) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "What is needed is a forceful character" Which turns our political system into an arena for politicians I would have happily voted for Corbyn because he offered change People voted a formerly unpopular party because they offered change - and they romped home (or would have if the right politicians hadn't combined in an effort to block them) I will no longer vote for anything but change - strong politicians invariably have me running for the bomb shelter) What's the point of doing otherwise ? Jim Carroll |
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05 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM (#4037627) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman Thanks Dave, I don’t hold out much hope, but somebody had to say it. I don’t post a great deal, but I lurk and read a lot, and It boils my piss to see the same few - most of whom are intellectually well-equipped to know better - reacting to the horseshit of one whose purpose is solely to sow dissent and silence anyone who doesn’t agree with his Right-Wing-Extremist views. Time, as ever, will tell. |
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05 Mar 20 - 07:28 AM (#4037643) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw RLB is by far my favourite (I have no time for Nandy, who was a key member of the Divisive Brigade during the Corbyn years), but I fear that she is too close to Corbyn to be electable. So as a party member who's a natural leftie, I'm in a quandary... |
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05 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM (#4037652) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Our last remaining far right poster tediously presents himself as a cartoonish buffoon. Mudcat BS needs more intelligent sensible conservatives to contribute regularly to our debates. Otherwise they are not debates of any significance. I'm not challenged or stimulated by back slapping love-fests between my fellow lefties and liberals, where we are all fundamentally in agreement.. or bickering pointlessly between ourselves on self absorbed trivial issues.. ...and I am never comfortable being associated with fellow lefties who act like patronising puritanical prigs.. The Labour Party failed to fight back effectively against persistent right wing attacks and propaganda; self destructed, and rendered itself unvoteable.. It's the only party I've ever supported, or ever will, whoever becomes leader; but I have little hope seeing it win a general election, unless the tories fuck up spectacularly and gift us a win.. Even then, the British electorate would probably reject Labour in favour of a far right alternative... The Labour party will become marginalised and ignored the longer it festers as an opposition party, unless it gets to grips with 21st century reality, and stops functioning as the adult wing of the NUS; by humouring and pandering to divisive identity politics obsessed middle class left wing academics... Btw.. you can ignore and cancel 'trolls' as much as you like.. But moralistically turning your back to, or passively turning the other cheek to, far right provocation, aint worked out that well for Labour.. has it... Labour has alienated and lost it's core mass working class vote, and must accept the blame for this. It's hard enough regaining power after being shafted by Scots Nationalists, and crumbling under the powerful non-stop onslaught of orchestrated right wing media and internet propaganda. But it'll be even tougher persuading sufficient ex-labour voters to return to the fold.. Labour won't even be able to bank on a new generation of 18 year old voters as the far right gains momentum becoming more appealing to them on social media... |
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05 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM (#4037653) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Mudcat BS needs more intelligent sensible conservatives to contribute regularly to our debates." Despite it's oxymoronic features - wouldn't situation be great ? Jim |
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05 Mar 20 - 08:47 AM (#4037656) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome I hate to do this to you, Steve, but this is from her own web site - I am a mum, wife, a Man Utd fan (obviously!) and I love Star Wars (the old ones). |
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05 Mar 20 - 08:53 AM (#4037658) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Conservatives can be very intelligent and sensible when they're concentrating on the interests of Number One. They care not a jot, in the other hand, about the wellbeing of those less well-heeled than themselves. As proven by the fact that they are letting Flybe go to hell today. They closed most of our Westcountry railways and now we've lost almost all of our air connectivity to the rest of the country. Yesterday you could fly from Newquay. Today you can drive for an hour from Newquay to the nearest railway. The government could take on Flybe and keep it going for a thousandth of the cost of a bloody vanity-railway that's designed to make London even greater. |
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05 Mar 20 - 08:55 AM (#4037659) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Well, Dave, my Grandad worked in Salford Docks, just like her dad, and Grandad was also an avid Manure fan. I'll concede defeat on the wife and mum bits... |
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05 Mar 20 - 09:01 AM (#4037661) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome PFR. If you genuinely wanted serious political debate you would find somewhere better than a minority interest folk music website. If you really care about stopping right wing extremist propaganda stop playing at it and get onto Facebook or Twitter or any serious social media outlet. You could argue with as many right wing extremists and test your skills in the real world rather than waste your talents here. In a nutshell. Go and mass debate where you might make a difference. |
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05 Mar 20 - 09:08 AM (#4037663) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Ultimately we are all looking out for number one, and our nearest and dearest. The difference is an individual and groups capacity for compassion, selflessness, and altruism.. The current tory regime is ruthlessly banishing old fashioned 'good kind' conservatives from government.. WE can be sarcastic drawing parallels between here and now and 1930s Germany, but reality may be not that far from the mordant jokes... |
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05 Mar 20 - 09:21 AM (#4037668) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker DtG - I do.. there are some I regularly wind up [and get occasional likes from who knows who..] But such sites are no better than scribbling graffiti on toilet walls.. Like it or not, mudcat is the online community I joined a decade and a half ago, and the nearest I know online to a bunch of regulars bantering in a local pub.. ..and I wouldn't tolerate too well any bloke engaged in a pub conversation if he started dictating who I am allowed to speak to in the bar. The Landlord can obviously tell us all to shut up and stop blathering about politics and religion so loudly.. But other drinkers do not hold that position of power... |
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05 Mar 20 - 09:27 AM (#4037670) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker DtG - btw.. few are more keener than you that we should actively debate politics here, so that post of yours, critisising me, seems oddly contrary..??? |
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05 Mar 20 - 10:25 AM (#4037677) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman ”I'm not challenged or stimulated by back slapping love-fests between my fellow lefties and liberals, where we are all fundamentally in agreement.. or bickering pointlessly between ourselves on self absorbed trivial issues.. ...and I am never comfortable being associated with fellow lefties who act like patronising puritanical prigs.. ..and I wouldn't tolerate too well any bloke engaged in a pub conversation if he started dictating who I am allowed to speak to in the bar. The Landlord can obviously tell us all to shut up and stop blathering about politics and religion so loudly.. But other drinkers do not hold that position of power...” I presume your comments above are a poke at my opening request not to give savour to The Troll. My request was made in the interests of keeping open the single thread we are allowed for UK politics. So, if you’re unwilling to, or incapable of, resisting the temptation to stir the hornet’s nest, why not fuck off and start your own thread where you can argue until you’re blue in the face with your Troll-adversary, and your thread inevitably gets closed. That way, this one might stand half a chance of staying open. |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:02 PM (#4037701) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stilly River Sage A nip here, a tuck there . . . and have you been watching the election results in the US? Perhaps there is sanity to be had after all. I understand that not everyone got to vote on Boris, only his own party did. Right now the parties are choosing their candidates here and it looks like we're going to have a gerontologist convention going later this year as Biden and Sanders duke it out. When is the next general election in the UK that will allow the populace to send Boris packing? |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM (#4037711) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Good luck with Sanders Maggie If Johnson and Cummins have their way there won't be another election Jim Carroll |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:19 PM (#4037715) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Stilly allowing for the average age of mudcatters, including myself, and aware of potential accusations of ageism.. I wonder why USA politics is dominated by such old codgers.. I accept billionaires get the best health care and on-call emergency Drs.. But even so.. It's a bit of a risk. Certainly now in the corona era... I'd want a potential leader to be younger than me; middle aged with a good 10 to 20 years fitness endurance left in them... |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:38 PM (#4037717) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stanron Stilly River Sage wrote: When is the next general election in the UK that will allow the populace to send Boris packing?Before the fixed term Parliament act there had to be an election every five years, but a Prime minister could call an election sooner if it suited him or her. After the act there were special conditions needed to enable a call for an early election. Boris was elected as party leader legally and according to Party rules. There were rather silly claims that 'no one voted for Boris' because he became Prime Minister automatically when he became leader. In the UK the Member of Parliament who leads the party with a majority in the House of Commons becomes Prime Minister. It's not like the US President who is elected as an individual in his own right. Boris was elected as an MP and then elected as party leader so he was twice elected into the position of PM. Anyhow in December last year there was a general election and Boris came back with a majority of 80 seats. No one claims that 'no one voted for Boris' now and only the left see this as a disaster. The chances are that this 'disaster' will last for more than the five years to the next election. |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:42 PM (#4037720) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG That is fairly uncertain, SRS. Currently we have something called the Fixed Term Parliament Act, which both the main parties said they would scrap if they won the election. SO the question is, what is that replaced by? Apart from the war years, most Parliaments have been 5 years or less, but there have been six, seven and even longer if you go far enough back. You could even, conceptually, have no maximum at all, relying entirely on votes of no confidence, but that is exceeeding unlikely, even with this Government. So I would guess that some time towards of the current five year period the Act will be changed to one specifying 'at most five years.' |
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05 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM (#4037722) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains The fixed term parliament act came in as a result of cameron's coalition with Clegg. The latter insisted on a fixed term for fear he would get shafted. The events of the latter part of the past year highlighted the drawback of the ficed term. It created a zombie government, not allowed to call an election, because the left knew they would be crucified. And they were. Hooray!!!!!. Prior to the fixed term the calling of an election was the sole remit of the PM unless, toppled by a vote of no confidence. No doubt when Brexit is done the act will be revisited and revoked. Along with the supreme court The Lorde the BBC kowrowing to the EU judicial system EU fisheremen poaching our valuable fishing grounds |
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05 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM (#4037726) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Corona could be the unexpected factor that makes or breaks boris...??? |
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05 Mar 20 - 01:12 PM (#4037729) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome few are more keener than you that we should actively debate politics here I used to be, PFR. Using you pub analogy it was good until someone started coming in and regularly shitting on the floor. I could even cope with that as the staff would regularly shovel it up, throw it out and spray disinfectant about. But some of the regulars then decided it would be fun to kick the turds about. This gave them great satisfaction but it caused a stink, covered everyone else in shit and made cleaning up a nightmare for the staff. It could still be good if only everyone would stick to discussing politics instead of kicking the shit out of each other. Until then I think I will take my refreshment in cleaner bar! |
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05 Mar 20 - 01:32 PM (#4037732) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Dtg - fair enough, I don't have any issues with you at all.. I'll happily drift in and out both bars for some reasonable friendly banter, on the way back from the bog... ..as long as there are no inconsiderate smokers too near the doors and windows... |
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05 Mar 20 - 03:38 PM (#4037755) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stilly River Sage I was surprised by someone telling me recently that they thought the Vicar of Bray describes perfectly the political shifts that we see today in many members of the Trump administration. At one time some of those people used to have reputations as responsible representatives of their constituencies. (It's not often this song comes up, but the nature of politics is such that it will always be topical.) Is this the same thing you're seeing in the current Johnson administration? |
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05 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM (#4037760) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Raggytash It would seem that the Governments response to allegations of bullying by Priti Patel will correspond to their attitude to the British public. Shut up ............ I'm in charge. Absolutely no way to run a democracy. I can only hope this comes back to bite her ......... BIG time. |
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05 Mar 20 - 04:05 PM (#4037762) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome I don't know it, SRS. I will take a look but probably can't view it objectively now I have been led! :-) |
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05 Mar 20 - 06:31 PM (#4037778) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll " Vicar of Bray " Great analogy Johnson originally organised a stay in Europe campaign Theresa May campaigned to stay in Politicians appear to decide on policy by sticking their finger out of the window to see which way the wind is blowing - that's how we ended up with populism, Trump and Brexit Jim Caarroll |
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06 Mar 20 - 03:58 AM (#4037819) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains A letter was in the Telegraph today – signed by 100 Patel allies from business, politics and academia (including the former charity commission chief, William Shawcross) – denouncing the bullying accusations as ‘smears’; saying when working with the Home Secretary she “never crossed the line or lost her temper”, and is the target of a “campaign of gossip, smears and malicious gossip by anonymous individuals who have failed to produce any verifiable facts.” Interesting that when aluded to on question time lasr night, the audience cheered in her support. Counter to the pundit class, the public seems to be rallying behind her… |
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06 Mar 20 - 04:08 AM (#4037821) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman Question time producer is a supporter of extreme right group britain first, she carefully selects the audience |
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06 Mar 20 - 04:31 AM (#4037824) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll PATEL AIDE GOT £25K PAYOUT 'OVER BULLYING' Jim Carroll |
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06 Mar 20 - 04:35 AM (#4037827) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll DIDN'T BELIEVE YOU AT FIRST DICK - SORRY They get everywhere, don't they ? Jim |
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06 Mar 20 - 05:08 AM (#4037832) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman Dick, Jim - I believe the person you’re talking about is or was the ‘Audience Producer’ who selects the members of the public to be in the audience - a very different position to the programme producer. Just to be clear... |
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06 Mar 20 - 05:14 AM (#4037833) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Should you wish to argue that the selection of the audience for question time is skewed by Pedley(the audience producer) I would agree with you. The questionto be answered is whether question time is a political program or an audience spectacle? I have no doubt it is the latter and the audience is chosen to provoke and court controversy for the "watching experience" It is an equivalent of sunday night at the London Palladium with occasional serious interludes. The entire experience is manipulated for entertainment value. Do not forget Mentorn Media owns the program and they are there to make it popular as a cash cow for the company. The Director of Currnt affairs at Menthorn media has a background unlikely to support a rightwing extremist on the payroll. |
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06 Mar 20 - 05:32 AM (#4037838) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Stand corrected Woodie - more serious, if anything It would be extremely difficult to hand pick a panel of goose-steppers - silencing the voice of the public is far easier THere is little doubt in the intelligent mind that Question Time, as it's Radio sister programme, 'Any Questions' is largely dominated by a serious approach to politic - can't speak for those with smaller IQs Jim |
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06 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM (#4037840) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains If you want serious read Hansard, if you want entertainment watch TV! |
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06 Mar 20 - 05:49 AM (#4037841) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Well I must say I was gobsmacked by the rowdy audience support given to Patel on this week's Question Time. Of course, she was doughtily defended by the dreadful Matt Hancock (a major architect of the destruction of our NHS whilst hypocritically sporting a prominent NHS badge), who couldn't respond to the valid suggestion that she might be very nice to her peers but a shocking serial bully to her underlings, instead resorting to the lame "innocent until proven guilty" defence (the latter an unlikely outcome as there is to be no truly independent enquiry, despite his disingenuous protestations). Of course, being nice to your "equals" whilst bullying the lower orders is a sure sign of not only a serious personality flaw but also of utter incompetence. Dick and Jim, that's a very disturbing read, especially considering that the author of the piece has tried to be measured and balanced. |
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06 Mar 20 - 06:49 AM (#4037856) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The state of what is happening to Johnson/Cummins/Patel's Britain is illustrated starkly in this mornings times Just above an article headed "Johnson vows he'll 'stick with Prit, another reports that: "300 active Tories have been accused of Islamophobia", including Councillors and advisors to the Prime Minister" It names 'Boorish' Johnson as "making dehumanising and offensive comments about Muslim women" Baroness Warsi, a former Party Chairwoman, said that "Islamophobia ran deep and wide among Conservatives" and accused the party leaders of "allowing it to fester" These accusations have ben submitted to the Equality and Human Rights Commission by the Muslim Council Rather puts the Labour Party's criticism of Israel in the shade somewhat, methinks On the same page it announces that a pay rise for MPs will boost salaries to over £80,000 As the song says, under the Tories: "There's nothing surer The rich get rich and the poor get poorer" And there's more ! On page seven it is reported that: After a raid by Counter-Terroism officers, a serving London police officer has been arrested because of his involvement with a Neo Nazi cell with links to right-wing terrorism Last week, two extreme right wing groups were banned by Parliament "The weeds are all around us and they're growing It will soon be too late for the knife If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing You may pay for your silence with your life So close your eyes, stop your ears Close your mouth and never dare And if it happens here they'll never come for you Because they'll know you really didn't care (Peggy Seeger - 'Song of Choice') Not bad for a Murdoch right-wing bumwipe eh !! Jim Carroll |
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06 Mar 20 - 07:05 AM (#4037862) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker You only have to look at all the orchestrated pro patel/smear Civil Service and Labour videos, popped up on youtube in the last few days... It's not just tories closing ranks to protect and defend the tyranical patel, but the organized far right youtube propagandists in bed with guido and cummings... |
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06 Mar 20 - 07:10 AM (#4037863) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw The Murdoch bum-wipes may become a lot more popular now that you can't buy bog paper in the shops... |
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06 Mar 20 - 12:31 PM (#4037926) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker I'm glad right wingers all over the media and internet are stating the FACTS, and EXPOSING the TRUTH for us... otherwise we'd never realise just how wrong and unpatriotic we all are... Oi you treasonous militant civil servants, stop trying to frustrate our right wing coup...!!! |
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06 Mar 20 - 01:39 PM (#4037934) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Fromthe Gruniard so it must be right! "Former prime minister Tony Blair has criticised the UK civil service, saying there is a “genuine problem with the bureaucracy” of the country. He has said UK civil servants are “superb” at coping in a crisis, but failed to implement major reform during his time in office." Seemss like they frustrated the bliar as well! Anyone else for skittles? |
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06 Mar 20 - 02:45 PM (#4037947) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll NEXT STOP UK Jim Carroll |
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07 Mar 20 - 11:39 AM (#4038106) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Nissan has announced it will build their new ‘Qashqai’ model in its Sunderland plant, with an investment of nearly 1/2 bikllion, despite Brexit. Brought by Guido(of course) https://order-order.com/2020/03/06/nissan-invests-400-million-sunderland-despite-brexit/ and the same from the FT https://www.ft.com/content/fe88eec2-5f9e-11ea-b0ab-339c2307bcd4 |
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07 Mar 20 - 11:49 AM (#4038108) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Any ethical investment in our nation is to be welcomed...!!! No sane folks would expect it to stop completely or be vastly increased as a consequence of brexit. So why the need to continue politicizing such encouraging news...??????? Our communities struggle on as best we can regardless of brexit.. ..and despite guido..... |
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07 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM (#4038116) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains So why the need to continue politicizing such encouraging news...??????? Simply telling it like it is! Unlike project fear below www.forbes.com . Feb 2, 2019 - Brexit Blamed For Nissan Pulling Manufacture Of X-Trail From U.K. |
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07 Mar 20 - 01:40 PM (#4038121) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Divisive so called pre brexit" project fear" .. No longer of any serious meaningful relevance... We all go a brand new project fear now, to help unify a divided nation together in fear of apocalypse and death... That's nice and handy... |
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07 Mar 20 - 03:32 PM (#4038152) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw An interesting collision of facts gleaned today. 38% of the electorate voted leave. 38% of American beer-drinkers think you can catch Coronavirus from Corona beer... I detect similarities in intellectual deficit... |
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07 Mar 20 - 08:26 PM (#4038196) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The favourite in the UK at present (according to a relative) is that the virus was manufactured by the Chinese to control the population Surprised Boris the Beast and his team haven't latched on to that one as an election-winner for the new order Jim Carroll |
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08 Mar 20 - 03:19 AM (#4038217) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman in my opinion , the best option now for the uk, other than rejoin , is to do a deal with china, their track record in africa is one of rebuilding infrastructure in the country, of course i could be wrong but i think for the nation this would be better than being tied totrade wise to the usa |
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08 Mar 20 - 04:51 AM (#4038227) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains 38% of the electorate voted leave. Therefore 38% call the shots! I am surprised you confuse intelligence with simple numerical superiority |
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08 Mar 20 - 06:21 AM (#4038238) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The Irish Government has announced that, in the light of the outbreak of the Dreaded Lurgi they are lifting restrictions on the recruiting of medical staff In line with Brainless Boris and his Muppet Team's plans to plans to stop all these FOREIGN JOHNNIES taking all our jobs and women, it will be interesting to see what they do about the predicted detrimental effects on the NHS No doubt they will do what they have done in the past, grant medical workers visas, ship the paperwork to Croydon to be shredded and pack them back to where they came from Jim Carroll |
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08 Mar 20 - 01:37 PM (#4038333) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Raggytash Quelle surprise. A parliamentary watchdog is to investgate just who funded Johnson's holiday in Mustique. That's three separate enquiries on-going at the moment. |
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08 Mar 20 - 01:59 PM (#4038338) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Next if we can investigate which Nation, or international Billionaires cummings is really working for...??? |
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09 Mar 20 - 12:38 PM (#4038557) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Interesting to learn that Prinny has hired Pinochet's defence lawyer to sort out his PAEDO PROBS At lwast he's done that sort of work before Jim Carroll |
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09 Mar 20 - 12:44 PM (#4038558) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll MORE CHILEAN FACTS Jim Carroll |
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09 Mar 20 - 02:51 PM (#4038580) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman iains ,would you prefer trade deals with china usa or india? |
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09 Mar 20 - 03:38 PM (#4038590) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The only messages deleted are those containing personal abuse on the below the line threads Boris the Brute, Cummins the (whatever) and the Priti Bully are the stars of censorship nowadays Jim Carroll |
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09 Mar 20 - 04:19 PM (#4038601) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker I've never been a football fan, but as a Labour party voter, I think I might be starting to understand the frustrations and discontent of loyal supporters of a premier division team that stopped winning games and can't get their act together... |
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09 Mar 20 - 06:26 PM (#4038630) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Which team are you thinking of? Can't be Liverpool? Played 29, drawn one, lost one, won 27, won their last one...? |
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09 Mar 20 - 07:35 PM (#4038649) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Steve - I know eff all about football since I collected esso footballer coins circa 1969.. I was speaking generally, in principle, and pretending I might know what I'm talking about regarding the league structuring... I'm aware my lack of football knowledge cancels out some on my proper blokeness to such an extent, i might get duffed up for being mistaken for a male feminist...??? |
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09 Mar 20 - 08:02 PM (#4038662) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw It's all right, mate. I post in the cookery thread, duckie... |
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09 Mar 20 - 11:22 PM (#4038683) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stilly River Sage Steve, it was still a very good point, so it was left in place for a while. Posting remarks about events is one thing. Posting rambling abusive rants intended to insult anyone who disagrees with said remarks is what gets them kicked out. |
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10 Mar 20 - 12:49 AM (#4038690) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman Iains , could you answer my question |
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10 Mar 20 - 05:03 AM (#4038713) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains @Sandman: A sensible person negotiates trade deals wherever a profit can be generated, There is no reason why deals cannot occur with China, India, and the US, and whoever else wishes to trade.Britain has traded worldwide in the past. Why should that change now we are escaping the protectionism of the EU? Protectionism only stifles trade.I have worked in 40 countries on five continents but never in the EU. The EU is not the universal panacea - life continues with every semblance of normality outside, likely because it is normal. There be dragons was just something to fill empty spaces on old maps. Take it from me - it ain't true. |
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10 Mar 20 - 06:25 AM (#4038727) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The Tories now have a major problem with serial bullying IMPECCABLE SOURCE Jim Carroll |
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10 Mar 20 - 03:54 PM (#4038880) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Raggytash Coming from Guido it must be true .............. or not. |
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11 Mar 20 - 04:16 AM (#4038964) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman the problem now iains, is that the uk are in a weak negotiating position to make deals, always negotiate from a position of strength. |
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11 Mar 20 - 04:18 AM (#4038966) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman they have left europe andnow the global economy has been hit by a virus, not a good time to be on ones own |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:25 AM (#4038976) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains the problem now iains, is that the uk are in a weak negotiating position to make deals, always negotiate from a position of strength. The trade imbalance with the EU is -67 billion. Of that figure the bulk is made up by four countries: Germany, Spain, The Netherlands and Belgium (54 billion.) The jackboot is on the other foot when it comes to leveraged negotiation. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/media-information/2020/brexit-uk-has-strong-negotiating-position-with-eu/ |
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11 Mar 20 - 11:38 AM (#4039026) Subject: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: Bonzo3legs Excellent budget from new Chancellor - definitely leader material, johnson must be shitting himself!!! |
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11 Mar 20 - 12:42 PM (#4039033) Subject: RE: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: Iains Excellent budget from new Chancellor - definitely leader material, johnson must be shitting himself!!! Hardly. The first Lord of the Treasury is Boris. Do you seriously think the Budget escapes his input and control?The Chancellor of the Exchequer is now always Second Lord of the Treasury as one of the Lords Commissioners for executing the office of Lord High Treasurer Even a recent Guarian headlines the fact "Sajid Javid's exit leaves Boris Johnson in control of Treasury" if further proof is required. |
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11 Mar 20 - 12:52 PM (#4039037) Subject: RE: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: punkfolkrocker Boris must know there will always be tory knives aimed at his back by wannabe usurpers... |
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11 Mar 20 - 01:14 PM (#4039042) Subject: RE: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: Steve Shaw Er, somehow it has to be paid for...We have a possible no-deal brexit and Coronavirus to screw things up... |
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11 Mar 20 - 01:19 PM (#4039045) Subject: RE: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: Iains We can shake a couple of magic money trees like labour and employ the abbaccus as auditor general. |
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11 Mar 20 - 01:37 PM (#4039055) Subject: RE: BS: Excellent UK Budget!! From: punkfolkrocker Beat me to the magic money tree reference. but it clearly demonstrates the sheer arrogant hypocrisy of the tories... |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:43 PM (#4039107) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozfrKbJk_ |
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11 Mar 20 - 05:47 PM (#4039108) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman in the above clip Michael foot made some good points, however the uk was not committed to monetary union, |
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12 Mar 20 - 07:20 AM (#4039160) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman A rather lengthy, but very interesting read here, from Truepublica.org.uk, discussing the causes and cyclical nature of political and social crises, and positing a credible view of the situation in which the UK currently finds itself. |
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12 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM (#4039176) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains The link above is an opinion piece written by a chappie with a qualification in hotel management from worcestersghire university |
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12 Mar 20 - 10:00 AM (#4039182) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker so then, that's two fine examples of blatant sneery snobbery... But of course, if "a chappie with a qualification in hotel management from worcestersghire university" had written a glowing brown nose puff piece for Boris and Dom, published bu guido... |
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12 Mar 20 - 10:00 AM (#4039183) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker so then, that's two fine examples of blatant sneery snobbery... But of course, if "a chappie with a qualification in hotel management from worcestersghire university" had written a glowing brown nose puff piece for Boris and Dom, published bu guido... |
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12 Mar 20 - 10:02 AM (#4039184) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker well something went a bit mental before I'd finished typing and spellchecking...??? |
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12 Mar 20 - 10:03 AM (#4039185) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Rain Dog and vice versa. |
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12 Mar 20 - 04:46 PM (#4039223) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stilly River Sage There is no information about the author at all of that TruePublica article. |
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12 Mar 20 - 05:05 PM (#4039225) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Graham Vanbergen Publisher, journalist and author. Founder and contributing editor of TruePublica.org.uk Education University of Worcester Field Of Study Hotel Management |
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13 Mar 20 - 03:08 AM (#4039266) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman Here ya go, SRS... On the basis of his reported experience according to that short bio, I’m strongly persuaded that he’s far, far better qualified to comment on financial and political issues that the drunk-driving, criminal, ex-bankrupt, acid-house-party-organiser who publishes a well-known Extreme-Right-Wing blog. |
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13 Mar 20 - 03:56 AM (#4039269) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll It's no matter anyway Whoever or whatever Vanbergan is changes not on iota the fact that Guido Fawkes is a bankrupt convicted criminal with proven links to organisations which have supported extremism criminality and terrorism Anyone who uses such a blogger as their own personal Lord Haw-Haw becomes part of what he represents Jim Carroll |
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13 Mar 20 - 04:06 AM (#4039273) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Why do the left always have to resort to ad hominem attacks? Can you not find any items within his factual content to criticise? Those that can find nothing to say about the author's articles attack the man instead. Rather ridiculous when you think about it. If you want a bone to pick on consider Labours bright idea to have the labour leadership election in camera using Covid19 as the excuse for a stitch up so the correct corbyn clone is elected. From Guido of course! https://order-order.com/2020/03/12/john-mcdonnell-cancels-labour-leadership-announcement/ In Labour, it's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. |
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13 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM (#4039291) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Nigel Parsons Iains: Why do the left always have to resort to ad hominem attacks? Can you not find any items within his factual content to criticise? Surely you risk claims of hypocrisy when your only response to a link was: The link above is an opinion piece written by a chappie with a qualification in hotel management from worcestersghire university |
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13 Mar 20 - 06:07 AM (#4039297) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Nigel I merely state his qualifications as listed on his Linked In page. If he is happy to state his qualifications then I am happy to repeat them. It is a statement of fact, neither positive or negative. Those that wish to read more into the statement obviously have an axe to grind. Mr Attenborough has a qualification in geology.He pontifiates on climate change after a long career chasing animals. Most Mp's with a higher education qualification have a humanities degree. How suited that is to the job of governance is worthy of a thread of its own. |
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13 Mar 20 - 06:32 AM (#4039300) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains with proven links to organisations which have supported extremism criminality and terrorism Sounds more like a description of corbyn to me! https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/corbyns-links-to-pro-ira-group-were-investigated-by-the-police-37230971 https://thefederalist.com/2019/12/03/u-k-labor-leader-jeremy-corbyn-has-a-long-history-of-openly-supporting-terrorists/ https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz/maajid-nawaz-labour-politicians-flirt-terrorists/ |
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13 Mar 20 - 09:32 AM (#4039314) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Can't be much wrong with that in your book if you support a blogger who supports organisations who support a mass murderer of young people Even Nigel seems to go along with your views - he uses whataboutism as well Bleeding Tories - who'd have 'em ? Jim Carroll |
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13 Mar 20 - 10:12 AM (#4039321) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Once again mr carroll reads the written word and from it he springs a complete fabrication. An accusation also levelled at you by many others. They cannot all be wrong! |
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13 Mar 20 - 10:21 AM (#4039324) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Staines is a convicted criminal, a bankrupt and has links to extreme right wing organisations. Not an ad hominem attack. It is a statement of fact, neither positive or negative. |
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13 Mar 20 - 10:51 AM (#4039332) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman ”Staines is a convicted criminal, a bankrupt and has links to extreme right wing organisations. Not an ad hominem attack. It is a statement of fact, neither positive or negative.” Absolutely spot on Dave, it’s all set out here, in all its gory detail. Even his inability to stick to his ‘Business Information Studies’ degree course at Hull College of Higher Education (now part of the University of Lincoln) which he abandoned part-way through. Not exactly a glowing bio, is it? |
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13 Mar 20 - 10:52 AM (#4039333) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman Aaaaaaaaand...100! ;-) |
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13 Mar 20 - 12:04 PM (#4039339) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Not exactly a glowing bio, is it?" Ah - but it's Tory - so yo have to respect them - or else - "Cummin, it's an unelected one-man QUANGO" Jim |
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13 Mar 20 - 05:49 PM (#4039387) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, For example below: Guido merely reports the news, yetis being attacked, whereas magic grandad is the news. Perhaps a difference too subtle for the less discerning. However the major sticking point for the left is highlighted in bold below. Guido is widely read by those in power. What the left do is of zero consequence. They are not in power, nor likely to be for the foreseable future . Even his inability to stick to his ‘Business Information Studies’ degree course at Hull College of Higher Education (now part of the University of Lincoln) which he abandoned part-way through. Corbyn began a course in Trade Union Studies at North London Polytechnic but left after a year without a degree after a series of arguments with his tutors over the curriculum. From the press gazette: (Press Gazette upholds the highest standards of ethical and professional journalism.) January 23, 2020Lobby allows live reporting from Government briefing after Guido Fawkes tweets November 11, 2019Guido Fawkes looking for new reporter after Sun poaches Steven Edginton October 28, 2019 Guido Fawkes hires journalist who helped expose UK diplomatic cables about Trump August 27, 2019 Guido Fawkes news editor made special adviser to Jacob Rees-Mogg May 28, 2019 Guido Fawkes founder behind campaign backing Boris Johnson's Tory leadership bid July 9, 2018 Andrew Neil is MPs' favourite political journalist as Guido Fawkes, Evening Standard and Times among most read by those in power, poll finds July 3, 2018 Guido Fawkes news editor Alex Wickham to join Buzzfeed UK politics team |
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13 Mar 20 - 07:07 PM (#4039402) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Hey, Iains, I see that your mentor Tommy Robinson is back in court again. Let's see how it goes, eh? :-) |
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13 Mar 20 - 07:31 PM (#4039405) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker I mentioned that a few days ago, when tommy was arrested for violence again.. Not a peep from his mudcat fan club.. just a very telling meaningful silence... |
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13 Mar 20 - 07:35 PM (#4039407) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Ps.. I notice it's only ever right wingers with a track record for insults and abuse, who resort to moaning about ad hominen attacks whenever they are stumbling back falling flat on their arses in a debate.. even more sheer hypocrisy...!!! |
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13 Mar 20 - 07:50 PM (#4039409) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: gillymor Looking at that resume I'd say he's earned the moniker "Skivee" Staines. |
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14 Mar 20 - 05:01 AM (#4039438) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, ... an opinion piece written by a chappie with a qualification in hotel management from worcestersghire university Just saying. |
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14 Mar 20 - 05:11 AM (#4039440) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Don't expect consistency from this poster Dave Just saying what everybody knows already Jim |
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14 Mar 20 - 08:10 AM (#4039465) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman I wasn’t sure whether to post this here, or in the ‘pandemic’ thread. It’s a bit of both, but I’m putting it here. Apologies for the lengthy C&P - It’s a C&P, because I don’t know who wrote it, and I don’t want to give away the personal details of the person who shared it. It makes sense to me... Not my words but bang on the money...... ”Coronavirus has revealed painful political truths in a way that nothing in our lifetimes has done before. We were told that care workers were ‘unskilled’, that we didn’t need them in the way we need bankers or doctors. Now we see that they are one of our most important lines of defence in a global health crisis. We were told we could divide our country from other countries and thrive in splendid isolation. Now we discover that we are intrinsically connected to our neighbours, and that if a vaccination is developed we will need the cooperation of other countries to access it as quickly as possible. We were told that a zero hours, gig-based economy where workers must continue to be productive even if they are ill would be to the benefit of all of us. Now we see that putting work before health costs lives. We were told that refugees and migrants would bring disease into our country. Now we discover that wealthy travellers are much more mobile, and therefore much more likely to fuel epidemics. We were told that our National Health Service could be whittled away and dismantled in the name of money. Now we discover that without the NHS, we will have no money. Nothing reveals truth as powerfully as vulnerability. Whereas the right likes to think that we can build elaborate ivory towers and separate ourselves from others, the left has now been proven correct in its belief that - whether we like it or not - our fate is always bound up in the fate of other people, even if they live on the other side of the world. Human beings are not separate from each other, we ARE each other. Human beings are not separate from the economy, we ARE the economy. A robust public health service is not a luxury that we pay for if we can, it is the very foundation of wealth and security. Unfortunately, these lessons may have come too late to save us. Hopefully not.” |
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14 Mar 20 - 08:13 AM (#4039466) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Interesting post baccie Sometimes it needs a problem to concentrate the mind and examine priorities I refuse to be panicked by any of this but I do hope lessons are learned Jim |
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14 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM (#4039470) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Hopefully the current health crisis will pass with sad but not catastrophic consequences. The cynic in me says that if this happens, Johnson (or should I say Cummings) will spin it so he comes out smelling of roses. I also suspect that the right wing will blame communist China and, by implication, Jeremy Corbyn. |
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14 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM (#4039477) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll communist China and, by implication, Jeremy Corbyn. Don't forget the Muslims - at least the 300 active ones who are probably already doing so Jim |
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14 Mar 20 - 09:18 AM (#4039482) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll On thursday morning the Irish TD announced that all schools and events involving mote than 200 people would be closed from the end of the day The British Government have just announced that the same thing will happen a week from now weeks ? Jim Carroll |
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14 Mar 20 - 11:22 AM (#4039510) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Pfr reasoned argument is entitled to reasoned responses. Putting up unattributed opinion pieces does not deserve a response. Repeatedly Putting up suggestions that members of the legal professions ridicule becomes tiresome. Requisitioning in the UK has only occurred in wartime, compulsory purchase can take years and would be fought in the courts. How many times do these arguments have to be repeated. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40303142 If you want serious discussion make serious poitns (with links.) How can you be taken seriously when the attack is always on the messenger, not the message. If you want reasoned discussion quote facts and reasons, not cheap political shots at Boris. Reasons for not closing schools: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51874084 and more facts concerning readiness and the NHS ttps://www.businessinsider.com/best-prepared-countries-for-a-pandemic-still-not-that-prepared-2020-3?r=US&IR=T#2-united-kingdom- |
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14 Mar 20 - 12:48 PM (#4039526) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker which reminds me.. far righters are constantly playing the victim card, feeling sorry for themselves, with never ending loud self pitying rants about attacks on their freedoms from bullying leftists and liberals.. Whilst at the same time gratuitously insulting their opponents as weak snowflakes who are always playing the victim-hood card.... sheer hypocrisy.. yet again... |
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14 Mar 20 - 02:12 PM (#4039547) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome What else do you expect, PFR? They have learned well from Goebbels. Accuse your enemies of your own sins. |
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14 Mar 20 - 02:34 PM (#4039552) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Nigel Parsons Accuse your enemies of your own sins. Was that aimed at Iains, or at pfr? And if one, why not the other? |
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14 Mar 20 - 02:41 PM (#4039553) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome I dunno, Nigel. I don't think either were about when Goebbels said it. |
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14 Mar 20 - 02:43 PM (#4039554) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Nigel - I have a very acute sense of self awareness. I am my own most diligent critic.. So I hope that I rarely if ever give anyone any justifiable reason to accuse me of hypocrisy... |
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14 Mar 20 - 02:47 PM (#4039555) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Likewise, I'd also dread to think anyone ever thought I was pedantic... |
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14 Mar 20 - 04:25 PM (#4039559) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Time for some pure comedy from some actors! (headline from the Guardian) The entire race equality committee of Equity has resigned in protest after the actors’ union apologised on its behalf for criticising Laurence Fox’s views on race and paid an out-of-court settlement to the actor after he threatened to sue them for libel. It was either resign or be held to account in the courts. The luvvies were losers either way. Their woke twitterings were: out of order unapproved by Equity clearly libellous Interesting that equity paid up sharpish, obviously worried the threat of libel action might grow wings |
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14 Mar 20 - 05:01 PM (#4039562) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Who was Mr Fox before all this.. Anyone remember seeing him act in anything...??? |
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14 Mar 20 - 06:29 PM (#4039568) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: The Sandman no i had never heard of him, now the actor who played arthur daley he was good especially with the line"ternce the world is your lobster" |
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15 Mar 20 - 04:19 AM (#4039605) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Laurence Fox is a detective in the popular TV crime drama "Lewis". He has also appeared in several other films, plays an TV programs. IMDB is your friend. |
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15 Mar 20 - 04:26 AM (#4039606) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG Yes, he is one of the many members of the Fox family who are actors, mainly in UK TV, but some films. Edward Fox James Fox Robert Fox Laurence Fox Emilia Fox Freddie Fox ... spring to mind. |
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15 Mar 20 - 05:28 AM (#4039611) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains The responses are very careful to concentrate on the man, not his actions. This speaks volumes to a woke analyst. |
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15 Mar 20 - 06:05 AM (#4039619) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The percentage of people in Britain who admit to holding and openly expressing racist views make it inevitable that events occur - and are necessary I rthought we'd left the world of "bogtrotters" and ""T'ick" Paddies when |Bernad Mannig dies - until I came here Iain's Jim Carroll |
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15 Mar 20 - 07:19 AM (#4039634) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains The percentage of people in Britain who admit to holding and openly expressing racist views make it inevitable that events occur - and are necessary OH DEAR!!!!!!!! |
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15 Mar 20 - 07:49 AM (#4039641) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "OH DEAR!!!!!!!!" My feelings exactly - between a third and a quater of the population is a little distressing (and that's from the Tory Daily Mail) You have long relinquished your right to comment on racism in Britain goiven your primitive hatred of 'Bogtrotters' and "thieving", slave-owning Travellers" Jim Carroll (a Brit living in the bogs) |
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15 Mar 20 - 11:34 AM (#4039680) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Did this thread make any sense for a short while between last night and this afternoon...??? If deletions have rendered it hard to follow what was argued about, well that's the norm... |
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15 Mar 20 - 07:31 PM (#4039776) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Hey, Iains, I see that your mentor Tommy Robinson is back in court again. Let's see how it goes, eh? :-) Hardly my mentor, idiot. However the story behind the altercation is: A Pervert sexually assaulted TommyRobinson‘s 8 year-old daughter in a kids swimming pool and the Police turned up 3 hours later and arrest Robinson for restraining the Paedophile. Rather a different story to that put out in the MSM. We will have to see how it pans out in the courts will we not? |
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15 Mar 20 - 07:41 PM (#4039780) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker That story behind the altercation wouldn't be Tommy's version of events would it...??? How sober was he at the time...??? |
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15 Mar 20 - 07:50 PM (#4039784) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Anyway, it's clear to see why UK white nationalists are now promoting Fox as their new poster boy.. He's celebrity minor 'royalty', more publicly acceptable, and so far less of an embarrassing self destructive liability than the likes of Tommy and Sargon... |
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15 Mar 20 - 08:55 PM (#4039811) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Robinson was arrested for assaulting a man he accused of molesting his daughter - the police found no evidence that he had The only newspapers yo report Iain's version are racist publications and blogs (obviously where he gets most of his ideas) One I tried to open was blocked by my security programme with a warning At least we know wheer Iain's gets his information now Jim Carroll This is the story in full After Stephen Yaxley Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson, got himself arrested following a fracas at the Center Parcs resort in Woburn Forest, he and his fans have been pushing their narrative, insisting that the altercation began after a middle-aged man grabbed Lennon’s eight-year-old daughter’s backside in the children’s swimming pool. The problem for this narrative is that the “children’s swimming pool” claim, along with the accusations of “Paedophile” and “Nonce” thrown at the bloke with whom Lennon had his altercation, have turned out to be at least unproven, and at worst plain flat wrong. The result is that The Great Man is still up on a Common Assault charge early next month. Still, the narrative had to be pushed, however pointless the task, and so it came to pass that Lennon’s fan site TR News told readers yesterday “Tommy received a call from Detective Sergeant Hancock on Wednesday. Pro-Paedophile Policing - Or Just Plain Negligence?” Phoning Lennon is now “Pro-Paedophile Policing”? Steady on. There is more. “Bedfordshire Police officers dutifully arrested a father for the ‘crime’ of protecting his daughter and the ‘crime’ of stopping a suspected paedophile from escaping justice. The ‘would be nonce’ (child molester) was not cautioned or arrested by Bedfordshire Police officers; he was simply ‘let go’. If the modus operandi of Police forces up and down the UK are influenced by media reports of Tommy Robinson then the UK is in dire straights [sic] indeed”. As Sir Sean nearly said, I think we got the point. But do go on. “During a follow-up call from DS Hancock, it became pretty clear that as far as he was concerned, the only reason Bedfordshire Police would arrest the ‘would be nonce’ is if there was CCTV or witnesses to the sexual assault of a minor”. Is that a problem? “Police officers do not ‘need’ evidence to arrest anyone … Police only need ‘reasonable grounds’ to make an arrest”. Yeah, like CCTV footage. But while Lennon’s fan site is blustering “Bedfordshire Police have proven without any doubt in our minds, they were more interested in the political scalp of Tommy Robinson, protecting paedophiles and dismissing the allegations of an eight-year-old girl”, they are managing not to address his rapidly unravelling story. The Tweeter known as Aunty Fah has addressed it: “the alleged sexual assault did not happen in a children's pool but the Wild Water Rapids … The Wild Water Rapids are not just for children but for both adults and children. When Robinson started ranting about men without children being at Centre Parcs the officer told him that was irrelevant, they are not just for families, having children is not a condition of entry”. There was more. “The police officer rang Robinson to give him an update on the investigation into Robinson's allegation, he told him that the police now have the CCTV footage and are reviewing it, are talking to Centre Parcs staff and have appealed for witnesses, Robinson was so busy ranting … he later demanded to know whether the police had CCTV footage”. Stephen Yaxley Lennon is still up on a Common Assault charge on April 2nd. He should count himself lucky that the cops are giving his claims the benefit of the doubt. And if the CCTV doesn’t stand up that claim, he might be in even more trouble. |
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15 Mar 20 - 09:06 PM (#4039813) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw Well, we already know that Iains loves a good criminal... |
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15 Mar 20 - 09:37 PM (#4039815) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums. |
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15 Mar 20 - 10:44 PM (#4039821) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker "It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums." Well at least you agree with us about tommy fan sites... |
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15 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM (#4039824) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker btw.. I don't do cult of personality / hero worshiping.. So if I were a right winger I'd drop tommy like the washed-up 'yesterday's man' he is... You all had better hope Laurence Fox works out better as your new poster boy... |
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16 Mar 20 - 03:29 AM (#4039832) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG (sorry, html tags fixed) There are reports Trump is trying to buy exclusive access to a potential coronavirus, probably by buying the German firm (report). As you would expect Germany is resisting. I could see the EU passing a rule unusually quickly to block any such sales of any company to ensure the EU countries get first call on any vaccine produced in the EU. Come Jan 2021, if not before, that would see the UK excluded from the EU protection and bidding for the vaccine against the economic might of the US and China. According to a leaked report the UK might still be affected by the crisis during the first quarter of 2021. This would certainly fit with reports in early March that the vaccine might take a year to get to market. No one during "project fear" predicted precisely this, but many predicted the UK being squeezed between the EU and the other big players like the US and China, and that could certainly happen. |
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16 Mar 20 - 07:47 AM (#4039867) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums." FINGERS CROSSED EH ? Jim Carroll |
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16 Mar 20 - 08:59 AM (#4039887) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Nigel Parsons There are reports Trump is trying to buy exclusive access to a potential coronavirus, probably by buying the German firm (report). As you would expect Germany is resisting. I could see the EU passing a rule unusually quickly to block any such sales of any company to ensure the EU countries get first call on any vaccine produced in the EU. Come Jan 2021, if not before, that would see the UK excluded from the EU protection and bidding for the vaccine against the economic might of the US and China. According to a leaked report the UK might still be affected by the crisis during the first quarter of 2021. This would certainly fit with reports in early March that the vaccine might take a year to get to market. No one during "project fear" predicted precisely this, but many predicted the UK being squeezed between the EU and the other big players like the US and China, and that could certainly happen. If that proved to be true, it could also mean that (in retaliation) the US could put mainland Europe at the back of the queue for any vaccine produced by the US. So, "come January 2021" we could be in a better situation than if we had remained. |
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16 Mar 20 - 09:13 AM (#4039892) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG We will see what happens in the first quarter of 2021, Nigel, but I think the option I outlined is rather more likely than yours. We will see what price such vaccines are from Germany to other EU countries and compare it with any US prices being offered. Of course the first effective vaccine might come from somewhere else - Asia, for instance. But thank you for responding anyway. |
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16 Mar 20 - 09:41 AM (#4039906) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Stilly River Sage If Trump were to try something like that I hope Americans would force his hand to prevent him from the attempt, because we all know he is only in the White House to enrich himself, not to help others. |
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16 Mar 20 - 10:55 AM (#4039926) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Mossback If Trump were to try something like that... Trump DID try EXACTLY that. And no, Amerkuns of the Trumpist persuasion don't give a shit or think it was a great thing for him to do. Heil Trump! |
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16 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM (#4039960) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll IS THIS LIKELY TO CHANGE BECAUSE THERE'S A CRISIS ? Past experience, even in my lifetime, proves it will only worsen with the present "Ding-ding, I'm on the bus" Tory philosophy CRISIS - WHAT CRISIS !!! Jim Carroll |
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16 Mar 20 - 02:38 PM (#4039961) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG Spain nationalises private health care |
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16 Mar 20 - 02:52 PM (#4039965) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Iains - the private health corporations would as a gesture of goodwill in a time of national crisis. try running that one past the shareholders! Get real! |
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16 Mar 20 - 03:05 PM (#4039969) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Real..??? - I am, and fully understand the selfish arseholes would get in a right proper tizzy about the idea.. That's why my suggestion was very obvious sarcasm... Now then.. Nationalisation in times of emergency.. hmmm... Boris and his master dom, better not take their new Northern working class vote too much for granted as the crisis progressively worsens, and affects them disproportionately badly compared to more affluent neighbours... |
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16 Mar 20 - 03:22 PM (#4039974) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Donuel School closings are inevitable. One way or teacherless other. |
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16 Mar 20 - 03:33 PM (#4039976) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Try running that one past the shareholders! Get real!" Says it all really - which is why the main parties dipped out as badly as they did and Independent's like 'People Before Profit" did so well We've always known that the English are up their own wallets Jim Carroll |
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17 Mar 20 - 04:18 AM (#4040084) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome We've always known that the English are up their own wallets What's next, Jim? Irish are thick? Jews are tight with money? Blacks are criminals? |
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17 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM (#4040086) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Steve Shaw It was a bit sweeping, Jim... |
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17 Mar 20 - 04:49 AM (#4040091) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Go look at the racism percentages and the reasons we have abandoned the refugees whose plight we helped to create by voting for Brexit That's nor racism - it's self-analysis (wherever I choose now to live or where my foren=bears cane from - I'm a Brit The country I call my own and was once proud to be part of is now in the grip of populism brought about by swallowing the line of the extreme right and blaming "them" and joining in the demands to "send them back where they came from" When Powell vomited his "Rivers of Blood" filth, he was drummed out of politics - the same policies have landed Britain in the Klarts big-time I'm by no means disillusioned with Britain - I hope what has happened to is is a passing phase, but as things stand at present..... Whether we like it or not, Iains and his ilk is a pretty fair representation of what has happened to our country I would have said similar about the German people had I been able to at the time - I crtainly don't feel the same now Jim |
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17 Mar 20 - 05:32 AM (#4040096) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Lefties don't do SENSIBLE, do they? NHS beds £400/day. This seems rather low to me(In Ireland THE average cost of a bed in a public hospital is now €889 a day)Irish Independant. 800 private beds are going to be rented for 2.4 million ie 300/day Do the math. but do not ask the abbaccus to help. Superficially it would appear commandeering beds(were it possible) would cost more than simply renting. Sounds about right for labour for a solution proposed by the hard left. |
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17 Mar 20 - 05:34 AM (#4040097) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Jim, you made a sweeping generalisation that "The English" care more about money than people. Not some. Not many. But "The English" in general. How would you react is someone was to say that a whole group of people were pre-disposed to, for instance, grooming and abusing young girls? I have pulled you up on it. I shall not Labour the point. Whether you keep digging or accept that it was a poor choice of words is up to you. |
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17 Mar 20 - 05:44 AM (#4040099) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Rain Dog Does making a racist comment make you a racist? There must be a lot of them about if it does. Sweeping generalisations, don't you just love 'em. |
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17 Mar 20 - 05:48 AM (#4040103) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome I know Jim is not racist, Rain Dog, which is why I pulled him up on it. There are those who make such generalisations all the time. They are best ignored. |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:07 AM (#4040110) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll It was a remark made in anger Dave - probably an overstatement, but an understandable one, I believe I apologise to those who don't fit my description Iain's is only serving may point with his hanging a price tag surviving in Modern Britain - however many there are like him, you have to admit that there are far too many We're lucky to have him as an example of what Britain has become with the help of his like and his bosom buddy, Tommy the Terminator Robinson Jim |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:20 AM (#4040112) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Thanks Jim. I thought as much. |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:43 AM (#4040122) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains We've always known that the English are up their own wallets Carrol you are a disgrace! That is an inexcusable insult to an entire country. |
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17 Mar 20 - 07:18 AM (#4040135) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains It was a remark made in anger Dave - probably an overstatement, but an understandable one, I believe No I do not believe. You are a bigoted anglophobe. |
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17 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM (#4040138) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome It really is best just to avoid such deliberate provocation, Jim. You made the remark in anger. You have risen above his level by apologising to those who do not fit the description. No more need be said. |
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17 Mar 20 - 07:49 AM (#4040144) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Donuel Lets assume YOU have been hit by a bus. No matter how vehemently you blame the driver or the city, it will have NO IMPACT on your medical condition. YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE HIT BY A BUS, Open your eyes and you may not die. Blame may be fine if you survive, but thats way down thw road. |
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17 Mar 20 - 07:52 AM (#4040146) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains ONLY AN UNRESERVED APOLOGY CUTS THE MUSTARD IN THIS CASE! This we have most cerainly not had! |
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17 Mar 20 - 09:14 AM (#4040151) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "ONLY AN UNRESERVED APOLOGY CUTS THE MUSTARD IN THIS CASE!" Fascinating to see someone who has waged consisrnt and insulting war against learn half of the British voters who voted to stay in Europe, who has descrribed elected EMps and even the Prime Minister as "a traitor", who has described British workers who have attempted to have a say in the workplace as "trublemaking layabouts" and has accused the British Establishment, including the police for of "fitting up" a Neo-Nazi criminal who attacked an innocent man at a swimming pool - now turn into a flag-wagger defending the British people who he has shown nothing but contempt for His own tagets ahve been British citizens originally from Ireland, British Travellers, and Britons from Muslim Countries Keep it up Iain's - you're doing our job for us Jim Carroll |
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17 Mar 20 - 09:15 AM (#4040152) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Nearly half" of course - must turn off spellcheck (only that would spoil some more of Iain's fun :-) Jim |
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17 Mar 20 - 09:39 AM (#4040158) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Very noteworthy that the only support offered to the anglophic ranter is by one of polish extraction. Now about that apology! |
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17 Mar 20 - 10:37 AM (#4040178) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "anglophic" Still can't be bothered with the capital 'A' I see Still - patriots run shallow (to mangle an old saying) A reminder of your "patriotism "A Pervert sexually assaulted TommyRobinson‘s 8 year-old daughter in a kids swimming pool and the Police turned up 3 hours later and arrest Robinson for restraining the Paedophile. - straight from a neo-Nazi site Jim |
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17 Mar 20 - 11:18 AM (#4040199) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Not a chance Iains - you'll only get more publicity for your cause by ignoring what I wrote WORTH RE-READING Jim Carroll |
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17 Mar 20 - 11:22 AM (#4040203) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman In the opening post of this thread, I implored everybody to ignore the trolling activities of the Right-Wing Extremist who got the previous thread closed. For my well-meant efforts, I received a sequence of less-than-friendly posts from one who should know better and, since then, I’ve kept out of the thread. Perhaps now, even he can see the indisputable logic behind my post, as this thread increases its momentum towards the inevitable closure. None are so deaf as they who will not listen. |
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17 Mar 20 - 11:36 AM (#4040208) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman ”I received a sequence of less-than-friendly posts from one who should know better” ‘Posts’ in that sentence should have been ‘PMs’. Apologies for the typo. |
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17 Mar 20 - 01:27 PM (#4040259) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Hello all.. I've been out.. just catching up... I'm English and don't care a toss that Jim made a rash clumsy overstatement in the heat of the moment.. It don't upset me at all.. I know Jim's heart is in a far better place than most other folks.. The only mudcatter who ever really needs to apologise [on a daily basis] is Iains... Btw.. I thought he was Scottish...??? If that is correct, I don't want him getting so offended on my behalf.. bollocks to anyone apologising to him... |
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17 Mar 20 - 01:30 PM (#4040261) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker oh.. and.. if anyone thinks BWM's post was about me - I never sent him any PMs, I prefer to have occasional honest fall outs with mudcat mates in open forum.. |
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17 Mar 20 - 01:39 PM (#4040264) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Btw.. I thought he was Scottish...???" He boasts about having owned two farms in Ireland - tak about biting the hand that feeds him - but absentee landlords always did have that reputation Thank you for your kind words on my rashness - much appreciated Baccy's patly right, of course but I do find it more and more difficult to ignore this troll It's like being told by a fond mammy to ignore her dysfunctional child as he wrecks conversation after conversation with his attention-seeking destructiveness Will try to do better Jim |
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17 Mar 20 - 01:59 PM (#4040278) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Jim - I'm dealing with a nutter on another forum at the moment.. At least the benefit of mudcat not allowing us to edit our own posts, is folks can't make provocative obnoxious statements; then after a few counter replies, re-edit their own posts to make the respondents look like bullies... |
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17 Mar 20 - 02:35 PM (#4040291) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman I didn’t suggest it was you, pfr. |
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17 Mar 20 - 02:57 PM (#4040308) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker BWM - No probs.. I absolutely know that.. But other folks might have have mistakenly inferred it was me from your post... I hope we are over our recent disagreement, and back to normal... |
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17 Mar 20 - 03:07 PM (#4040312) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman I never sulk for long, pfr! ;-) |
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17 Mar 20 - 03:27 PM (#4040318) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Doug Chadwick I never sent him any PMs either! |
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17 Mar 20 - 05:45 PM (#4040341) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome Nor me but having been the recipient of similar I can make an educated guess :-) |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:15 PM (#4040345) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Donuel Iains? Rudolf Cambert von Crumbucket? Steve? Was it a flash in the pan or a micro conspiracy? Current events won't push back Brexit will it |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:29 PM (#4040349) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG Current events won't push back Brexit will it I assume that is a question, not a statement. if so, it is a really good question. There is no doubt that politically Johnson and team will want to do everything they feasibly can not to postpone things. But since even Brexiteers were (in the main) willing to accept there was a significant risk of a likely short term dip in the economy, albeit with a claimed bounce later. we are now predicting a major dip due to the virus. Having both dips at the same time, rather than one, a recovery, then the other is a huge risk to take. As I say, the current government is likely to all it can to avoid a delay. Whether it can remains to be seen. |
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17 Mar 20 - 06:34 PM (#4040351) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman I read earlier today that the government are actually planning a delay beyond 31/12/20, but I’m damned if I can remember where. Anyone else seen it? |
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18 Mar 20 - 04:50 AM (#4040425) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Delay Brexit?? We will have to wait and see. When the Divorce started Corona was something you drank out of a bottle, not a force majeure https://www.ft.com/content/14232572-686e-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3 |
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18 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM (#4040426) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG It is worth remembering that, as Boris would have it, we "got Brexit done" in January 2020, where we lost most of the things Remainers cared about, but because we are subject to all the rules we have gained few of the things Leavers cared about. If we delay, we are definitely in a BRINO situation where both sides are getting very much less than they wanted. No one knows how long the impact of coronavirus might last, but several years to get back to where we were at the start of 2020 is by no means unlikely. |
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18 Mar 20 - 09:41 AM (#4040467) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker DMcG - a lot of the most fanatical old brexiteers will be too dead to gloat about victory by then... |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:03 AM (#4040471) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains No one knows how long the impact of coronavirus might last, but several years to get back to where we were at the start of 2020 is by no means unlikely. I hope you are correct but I suspect a very changed landscape at the other end of this crisis. Post WW2 rationing lasted in the uk until midnight on 4 July 1954, Depending upon the severity of the hit return to a new normal perhaps may take a similar time. It is very early days but the situation being planned for is a little more than a temporary blip. I will be ecstatic to be proved wrong, but..... (A lot of fanatical old rejoiners will slso be too dead to keep bleating whining and moaning) every cloud has a silver lining! |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:08 AM (#4040473) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Presumably Trump and Johnson have hatched a plot to ascertain that only red-neck right wing fascists like themselves will survive |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:15 AM (#4040475) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Sorry about that Just wanted to highlight the sick mind of a fanatic prick who wishes everybody who doesn't agree with him dead at a time when we all feel threatened Bet jokes like thet were flying left right and centre during The Holocaust Jim Carroll |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:15 AM (#4040476) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Trump probably got the vaccine well before CIA bats were infiltrated into the Chinese food market... |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:19 AM (#4040477) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker No bog rolls in the shops.. not a problem for the tory ruling elite.. They'll have their arses licked clean as usual... |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:24 AM (#4040480) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Iains - as mush merriment as there is in taking the piss out of each other [a Great British Tradition..} I suspect this crisis might not work as well as hoped to heal divisions and bring the survivors back together as one happy unified nation of Britons...??? |
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18 Mar 20 - 10:25 AM (#4040482) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG No one knows how long the impact of coronavirus might last, but several years to get back to where we were at the start of 2020 is by no means unlikely. I hope you are correct but I suspect a very changed landscape at the other end of this crisis. Post WW2 rationing lasted in the uk until midnight on 4 July 1954 I agree - I just didn't want to say we could be stuck in BRINO for a decade, because I thought people might say I was wildly "project fear-ing"! So I gave what I thought was the shortest plausible time we could start the 'second dip' due to any Brexit effects without risking compounding the two sources of a lowered GDP (or whatever economic measure you want) In truth, that time is only plausible if they is an unexpected turn-around in the progress of the coronavirus, such as finding an existing, already tested drug is an effective cure and/or vaccine. |
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18 Mar 20 - 11:06 AM (#4040489) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains DMcG. I suspect it will be impossible toguage the impaxtof brexit with the economic hit by Covid19. It is by no means certain the EU will survive. Greece was thrown under a bus for economic reasons ahd Italy also joined that club, though for different criteria. Globalism and strecthed supply chains and just in time deliveries will take a mighty shock most likely. Governments may well re evaluate such concepts when sanity returns. Climate change should have generated the conversation several decades ago. TJust wanted to highlight the sick mind of a fanatic prick who wishes everybody who doesn't agree with him dead at a time when we all feel threatened Bet jokes like thet were flying left right and centre during The Holocaust! The argument room is closed to troublemaking exiles. How very sad! |
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18 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM (#4040491) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll I'll tell that to my sisters who are worried sick about their kids scattered all over virus-riddled Britain - I'm not sure how they voted in the refereendum Sick bastard Jim Carroll |
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18 Mar 20 - 11:29 AM (#4040492) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Jim - it's only fair I point out that Iain's remark was in response to mine, taking the piss out of his side of old brexiteers.. Sorry to spoil your reason for having a go at him this time.. But no doubt there will be plenty more opportunities as we all try to survive the pandemic together... |
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18 Mar 20 - 11:56 AM (#4040496) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Then stand admonished I usually have no problem with sick humour, but this time it's a little different -as is a joke coming from someone happy to see survivors from a horrendous fire rather than let the use empty buildings Somehow you instinctively know who is serious and who isn't from their track record Jim |
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18 Mar 20 - 12:06 PM (#4040497) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Jim - Yes it was my fault - bum spanked.. But, I'll always defend the human need for grim dark humour, as an antidote to despair.. especially in times of crisis... I think I know my limits, beyond which even I sense it's no longer funny.. But a difficult balance to maintain amongst a diverse group of folks with different senses of humour, and too easily triggered offence..... |
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18 Mar 20 - 02:36 PM (#4040524) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "But, I'll always defend the human need for grim dark humour," Me too It's those who mean it that worry me There's a wonderful story, claimed to be true, about this town during the Famine The carts used to go around picking up the bodies, bring them through Miltown and turning at Canada Cross up to The Ballard Cemetery One was makig the turn when a body fell off and landed in the gutter outside the blacksmith's shop (owned by a blacksmith later to be celebrted in the song as one of the 'Three Brave Blacksmiths' who were imprisoned for refusing to shoe a landlady's horse because of her treatment of tenants) The blacksmith ran out and attempted to help the driver lift the body back onto the cart - it woke up The smith brought the man in, fed him and gave him a job, he survived for another fourteen years The smithy is still there, though now empty - it was still operational when we moved here Not funny, but extremely heartening Jim |
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18 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM (#4040536) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome 200! |
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18 Mar 20 - 09:37 PM (#4040597) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh The story must be true, Jim Carroll; if it had been made up, wouldn't the "corpse" have rolled off at an ale house he used to frequent, the "punch-line" being fairly obvious? Had someone made a song on the incident, I wonder whether that very obvious change would have occurred at some point during the hypothetical song's history, as it was "mediated" from one singer to another down through the years. Just an immediate, not especially political, thought. Self-isolating ABCD. Good Luck. |
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19 Mar 20 - 04:55 AM (#4040634) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Pretty sure it is true - it's treated as such around here Incidentally, the wall adjacent to the smithy is spattered with bullet holes from 'The Canada Cross Massacre' when the Black and Tans fired into a crowd which had gathered to celebrate the release of a couple of Republican prisoners from Limerick Jail The centenary of the event was due to be commemorated in a few months time but that's doubtful now, I should think Jim |
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19 Mar 20 - 05:56 AM (#4040648) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG Sorry, Backwoodsman but I do want to respond to this point Iains made on another thread. By way of mitigation, it is the point I am responding to, rather than Iains per se. "Why drag politics into a national emergency?" The virus is certainly an international as well as national emergency. And, yes, Johnson's team is following the scientific advice. But the way in which they respond is inevitably a political response. You can be advised by the scientists that groups more than a certain size should not meet. Whether you simply recommend that or enforce it is a political decision. That people should work from home rather than go to the office is scientific advice, but how much financial support you give from the centre and how this is shared between supporting businesses and the individuals who work there are political decisions. Politics in this situation is inevitable: *how* you act on the scientific advice you receive is itself political, not just *whether* |
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19 Mar 20 - 06:18 AM (#4040651) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll A sobering though If Trump's America gets to a cure first they with inevitably attempt to corner the market on it for profit 'Free medicine' has always been regarded as tantamount to 'Communism' in the US A sobering thought Jim Carroll |
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19 Mar 20 - 06:41 AM (#4040653) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh Sobering indeed. There's been a deal of adverse criticism here about people buying up hand-sanitiser and the like then selling some at greatly increased prices. Isn't that kind of speculation exactly what commodity dealers &c. do? Buy low, sell high. I'd wondered some four years ago just how various centenaries might be commemorated in Ireland. Maybe not quite so many re-enactments. |
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19 Mar 20 - 06:47 AM (#4040654) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman ”Sorry, Backwoodsman but I do want to respond to this point Iains made on another thread.” No reason to apologise to me, DMcG - as was pointed out to me in a sequence of unpleasant PMs recently (not from anyone on this thread), I’m not a Moderator. FWIW, I have no personal issue with anyone who responds to anyone else, as you invariably do, with reason and civility. My request in my OP was made in the hope that others would refrain from reacting to flame-bait (and yes, I’m fully aware that I’ve done my share, but I’ve adopted a policy of ignoring the flame-baiter and, for me at least, it works). |
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19 Mar 20 - 07:31 AM (#4040661) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains DmcG. I agree that in a democracy the response to any crisis is political and there will be controversy over the speed of reaction and type of reaction. But it can be clearly demonstrated that as the science has ramped up the threat so government has ramped up the response. As I said on the other thread the figures we have all quoted do not paint an accurate picture. The data is surrounded by caveats, that is a given, but it is all that is available as a planning tool. I would argue the real figure to be following is the rate of infection per head in the population. There were complaints we did not shut schools down fast enough. Ireland closed theirs one week ago, along with colleges and universities. However Ireland has one person in 17000 infected, the UK one in 26000. There are reports Spain is flying drones to enforce the curfew, their infection rate is one in 4000.Italy on shut down with one in 2000. As a gauge of proportionate response the metric of per head infected seems a more accurate way of looking at the problem, as the raw figures can only be meaningful when considered in terms of the total population. Sweden is not mentioned yet the infection rate there is one in 6700. The UK government updates infection number at 2pm daily.The mortality figures arrive later. You can nitpick the tory response to your hearts content,but would you seriously have greater confidence if corbyn was in the driver's seat?. |
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19 Mar 20 - 08:21 AM (#4040668) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Nigel Parsons While I agree with Iains about the proportionality of any response, it is pointless backing up the argument with relative incidences in the various countries unless those countries are equal in the level of testing for the virus. |
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19 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM (#4040676) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Nigel am assuming those tested are sick enough to be requiring medical care. Sadly this is a situation where assumptions have to be made. The alternative is to do nothing, and watch perhaps 1/2 million die if assuming a mortality rate equivalent to seasonal flu,or 1/4 million if half as deadly. According to the CDC "The virus that causes COVID-19 seems to be spreading easily and sustainably in the community (“community spread”) in some affected geographic areas." China seems to have brought the crisis under control. BUT that is onlt the first wave. Will there be a second or third wave? Serious questions but definitive anwswers are but constructions based on projections. |
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19 Mar 20 - 08:43 AM (#4040677) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG Quite so, Nigel. I think it needs to be stressed how much uncertainty there is in these figures. We cannot actually know what infections per head of population is. We can know infections per tested person and try to guess the total population but a guess is all it is. And it is not even that a high ingextion per test is bad: that could show a relatively good tracing of potential infections, whereas a low rate could mean you are testing too many people who could not have been infected. If you like, is the testing focused or unfocused? Add in that we have seen changes of 40% infections in a single day and your rate could almost double overnight. The figures may well be the best we can get for planning purposes, but the level of uncertainty in them is huge. |
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19 Mar 20 - 11:05 AM (#4040712) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Corbyn wouldn't prioritise the wealthy and "important" members of society, as is likely to happen at present Can't help but notice how you people duck and dive around that fact while you make political capital out of this emergency Jim Carroll |
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19 Mar 20 - 11:12 AM (#4040715) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Educated consensus seems to be established that the general public wearing face masks is a pointless false sense of security.. But some 'experts' are still recommending such protection, and news reports show global wearing of makeshift scarves, tea towels, and hankies, etc.. Wrapping our heads in cling film and breathing through a snorkel...??? Is there actually a serious definitive conclusive scientific/governmental decision on this matter...??? |
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19 Mar 20 - 11:18 AM (#4040716) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker yes I quickly realised, wrong thread.. but they have got a bit blurred together when the 2 tabs are open at the same time... |
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19 Mar 20 - 12:18 PM (#4040721) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker FACT OF LIFE - we are stuck with boris and dom's regime for the time being... Labour need to become an effective opposition, or if the situation drastically worsens, partners in an emergency coalition government...??? WE need a govt that can do the decent right job for ALL of us in this crisis, and beyond... Things could get so bad old enemies will need to fight side by side together against this new common adversary... [just like in a hollywood space aliens invasion movie...] |
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19 Mar 20 - 03:23 PM (#4040756) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll C'mon PFR He's just equated supplying medicine for all with Communism You couldn't get a declaration of a shitty unequal society more clearer than that - hoist on his own petard, I would suggest Don't rats always go for the jugular when cornered ?? "little jimmie " And the inventiveness - never been called that before - since the last time What a tosser - and he's looking for a rise from terrible Tommy !! Jim |
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19 Mar 20 - 03:31 PM (#4040759) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Mod - NO.. that deletion is absolutely unacceptable...!!!! Jim's post deserved best of the week award, Iains should be left as a stark reminder of what he is... |
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19 Mar 20 - 04:51 PM (#4040764) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Bonzo3legs What you are forgetting is that we are always told only what they want us to know, no matter which political party is in power. |
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20 Mar 20 - 03:19 AM (#4040834) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome And whoever you vote for, the government always gets in :-( |
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20 Mar 20 - 05:04 AM (#4040843) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll In which case, why vote !!! When someone promises something completely different, as Corbyn did, you take a chance It worked a charm in the last election here in Ireland and the electorate kicked the old usual lot right up the arses The established parties have combined to attempt to keep the people's choice out of power - it remains to be seen if they win when things finally sort themselves out At least nobody can say we didn't try instead of moaning "you can't trust any of them" and doing S F A - that changes nothing and they win anyway I'm proud to have chosen to live in among people who stand up for themselves while keeping their humanity intact We get regular calls from our neighbours asking if we are ok I understand from my sister that the same id happening in Liverpool ('the 33rd County of Ireland') Jim Carroo |
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20 Mar 20 - 05:05 AM (#4040844) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll Forgot to add :-) Jim |
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20 Mar 20 - 09:16 AM (#4040890) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Labour’s leadership election has become much more subdued due to the Coronavirus outbreak, with their announcement event (due on April 4) being cancelled; however the zeal of Rebecca Long-Bailey’s hard left supporters hasn’t softened. Messages sent last night in the ‘LDN for RLB’ WhatsApp group – used to organise Labour members campaigning for Rebecca for Leader – show Long-Bailey’s activists calling for a “Real Labour Jehad to bring equality for all”. An unfortunate campaign slogan… (That means an extra 5 years in the wilderness) The group’s admin info links to the official campaigns guide setting out the groups’ guidelines, asking participants to both stay on topic, and be respectful and tolerant. Some of Becky’s fans clearly don’t understand the rules… Imagine the squealing were a Tory to say something similar! |
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20 Mar 20 - 09:24 AM (#4040893) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Rain Dog Talking of squealing. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." From Animal Farm by George Orwell. |
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20 Mar 20 - 10:12 AM (#4040901) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Must be labour suffering from Corbyn-19! |
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20 Mar 20 - 10:21 AM (#4040903) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker "Jehad" Must be far right infiltrators running covert spoiler campaigns to undermine Labour... A far more plausible explanation...!!! |
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20 Mar 20 - 10:23 AM (#4040904) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker Ps.. your wicked cruel post from yesterday may have been deleted, but nothing vanishes forever off the internet.. |
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20 Mar 20 - 10:46 AM (#4040916) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Backwoodsman A very interesting POV from Another Angry Voice. To anyone other than a brainwashed working-class Tory, or a very rich person reading it, it has the ring of truth... ”In 2008 the Westminster political establishment class decided to keep the bloated monster of speculative capitalism alive with vast bailouts at the public expense. The fact that capitalism required such an extraordinary dose of 'socialism for the rich' should have been the wake up call we needed that capitalism doesn't work. Instead of demanding something better, the British public decided to elect the Tories, who decided to load the cost of this 'socialism for the rich' onto the poor and ordinary through a decade of ruinous austerity fanaticism, whilst lavishing the bankers who caused the crisis with one tax break and handout after another. We didn't just return to business as usual, we sped up the process of increasing inequality, transferring wealth upwards, and handing ever larger slices of the public sphere over to private capitalist profiteers. The whole thing was bound to come crashing down again at some point, because it's literally insane to keep on transferring ever larger proportions of the economy's wealth and resources to the greediest people in society, to use for their own advantage. This kind of hard-right neoliberal economic extremism leaves us weak, and unprepared, with public services in chaos, spare capacity slashed to the absolute minimum, and millions living on the absolute brink of survival before the crisis even comes along. The virus was just the straw that broke the camel's back, after years of mistreatment and neglect. When this chaos is over we'll need to ask ourselves whether we want to continue down the same path again (austerity extremism, devastating public service cuts, wage repression, soaring inequality, privatisation mania ...) or change direction so we're actually economically healthy and much better prepared the next time a major crisis comes along. And you damned well know which of these directions will be favoured by the Tories, the corporate elites who fund them, and the mainstream media hack pack who propagandise for them, don't you? This means that those of us who want something better will have an almighty fight on our hands to stop them from opportunistically using the coronavirus crisis as an excuse to poison us with yet another deadly dose of their toxic neoliberal economic quack medicine.” |
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20 Mar 20 - 10:53 AM (#4040920) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Labour’s leadership election has become much more subdued due to the Coronavirus outbreak," Arrangements to 'stand on our own two feet" have actually ground to a halt TBTG and by the time they are ready to resume the economy will be in such a state that it will have to apply for wheelchair assistance to go to the bog, never mind 'make Britain Great again' It was a Labour Government with mildly progressive Socialist policies who cleared up the debris and began to make Britain 'a land fit for heroes to live in' - I can't see the Johnson/Patel/Cumings triumvirate coming anywhere near to wanting to do that - can anybody ? They were a friggin' joke before this began HERE Jim Carroll |
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20 Mar 20 - 11:43 AM (#4040935) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll PULLING TOGETHER FOR THE GREATER GOOD Jim Carroll |
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20 Mar 20 - 01:59 PM (#4040960) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Pulling together for the common good means letting the PM follow the advice given by his experts and not be deflected by all those sniping. Now Boris too is closing the bars, hopefully more successfully than Ireland where one was raided by the guards last night and found everyone had crept in through the back door and were partying like no tomorrow. . |
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20 Mar 20 - 02:04 PM (#4040962) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker The majority of British citizens are either too selfish and stupid, or not, depending on if they are voting for your side at elections.. But in times of national crisis, I think we can all agree.. yes they really are...!!! |
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20 Mar 20 - 04:03 PM (#4040991) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll "Pulling together for the common good means " Then it doesn't mean a posh hotel sacking all its staff and evicting them in the middle of a severe crisis - which is why you choose to ignore it Your Pro-Booris rhetoric is somewhat reminiscent of that used to fight for a New Germany - sme leaders different times The man is a moron and he is hardly beloved by his people as his earlier counterpart was Boorish has taken so long to take the advice of his experts (or ignore it) that it's hard to know what he's going to ignore next Jim Carroll Independant 4 days ago Horseracing to continue across UK behind closed doors amid coronavirus outbreak Decision means the Grand National may yet go ahead as planned though officials will monitor the coronavirus case with a view to making a decision on the April meet at Aintree Jack de Menezes @JackdeMenezes Horseracing in the United Kingdom will go behind closed doors until the end of the month after the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) confirmed meets across England, Scotland and Wales will continue to go ahead without spectators. A meeting on Monday of the Racecourse Association, The Horsemen’s Group and the BHA saw racecourses across Britain shut to the public from Tuesday, with Taunton and Wetherby set to be the first venues forced to close their doors after Kelso decided to trial the move on Monday. But while the ban does not yet include the Grand National meet at Aintree, which gets underway on Thursday 2 April with the main event on Saturday 4 April, the government’s expectation that the worst of the coronavirus outbreak is yet to come leaves the Festival facing the prospect of being ran behind closed doors. The move comes after more than 150,000 racegoers attended last week’s Cheltenham Festival, which attracted widespread criticism despite organisers following government guidelines not to close their doors to the public. A statement from the BHA read: “Racing industry leaders have confirmed a plan to continue racing behind closed doors from tomorrow. Any fixtures that take place in England, Wales and Scotland, initially until the end of March, will take place without spectators and with restrictions on the number of attendees.” Watch more Europe is not prepared for coronavirus, doctors warn- live The decision not to fully cancel meets is to enable those who depend on the horse racing industry as their main source of income to be supported during what will be extremely difficult months, with planned cards for every day across the remainder of the month. The statement added: “The intention is for scheduled race meetings to take place wherever possible. However, the situation is very fluid at present and decisions may have to be made to cancel meetings. Every effort will be made to notify customers and the betting industry at the earliest opportunity. “With race meetings due to happen every day, the aim is to agree a programme that is sustainable, in the light of possible staff absences, including in critical roles, in order to protect industry staff and support the wider effort to free up critical public services.” France has taken a stronger stance in their action by suspending all horse racing until 15 April at the very least, while bookmakers’ are predicting huge losses over the next few months – though the BHA’s decision does at least ensure races will still go ahead and help betting shops to remain open. The chief executive of the BHA, Nick Rust, said:“Racecourses and racing yards are embedded in their local communities and we are acutely aware of our responsibilities to protect public health. “The restrictions we are putting in place to close racing to spectators and limit attendees will reduce demand on public services. We also have a range of measures in place designed in response to the government’s guidance on public health and we will continue to update these as appropriate. “We acknowledge that today’s decision will also impact on local businesses, especially hotels and restaurants, who are struggling at this time. We are following the government’s advice to strike a balance between protecting public health and maintaining business activity and will continue to do so. We thank our customers and staff for their support" |
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20 Mar 20 - 05:39 PM (#4041007) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG I thought Johnson really fumbled one of the questions badly. One reporter said it was Mother's Day on Sunday and was the PM advising people not to visit. He needed to say "I am afraid so. Use the phone, use Skype, or Messenger or any of the video tools. But this is serious and however hard this is, we need to keep our distances for their sake as much as anyone else's." Instead he ducked, and fumbled, and then said he would be visiting his - precisely against all the advice he was given. |
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20 Mar 20 - 06:05 PM (#4041015) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains Expect a few more fumbles. Working under the pressure as Boris is does not make for 100% reasoned responses. Even Churchill screwed up on occasions,but back then it was not picked up and dissected to the nth degree by the waiting vultures of the MSM. How would Comrade corbyn be fairing had we the abject misfortune to have him as leader? Those 2 grade E A Levels and an abandoned degree in Trade Union Studies from a Poly hardly boast a towering intellect. |
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20 Mar 20 - 06:51 PM (#4041027) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Dave the Gnome How much of the pressure that the NHS is under with the coronavirus crisis is due to the years of underfunding? Little wonder that the government is now panicking. NHS funding will be in the forefront for years to come and when the last 10 years comes under scrutiny this shower will be shown up for the damage they have done. |
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20 Mar 20 - 07:24 PM (#4041034) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: WalkaboutsVerse By taxing the rich to fund the various macro economic interventions for COVID_19, our government can, at the same time, level the revoltingly unequal society that free-market capitalism has produced. My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Global Regulationism" |
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21 Mar 20 - 03:28 AM (#4041068) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: DMcG I do wonder what the response would have been if Corbyn had won and issued word-for-word Sunak's budget statement of 20/3/2020. Actually, I don't. I am pretty certain what it would have been. |
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21 Mar 20 - 03:56 AM (#4041077) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll The left want to change a dangerously unfair and unequal society and those who that imbalance advantges or doesn't effect, don't - it never gets more difficult than that All politicians make mistakes - that's not the problem - it's the overall intention of political parties that they should be judged on Johnso is a caricature educated fool - the stuff that gave satirists like 'The Establishment their BREAD AND BUTTER It's when that satire becomes a form of Governance that you rialise that society is on the skids The lower echelons, gofers and arse-lickers of that group (like our friend) are only the foot-soldiers, usually willing victims themselves (but not quite as badly off), They support the idea of putting a price tag on medical treatment during a pandemic, or sending fire-survivors to sleep in the local park rather than allow them to 'defile' private property, they make human tragedy a macho display of inhumanity THey'ret the ones hat you really have to watch - it's they who'll come kicking your door down to drag you off to be 'educated' hould their bosses feel it necessary I've become a fann of WW2 'occupation' films since we got 'Talking Pictures' o our TV - you can watch 'em in action most nights nowadays Jim |
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21 Mar 20 - 10:25 AM (#4041142) Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker btw.. the deletion I protested about 19 Mar 20 - 03:31 PM.. Jim's heartfelt post and iains's vicious reply should be framed here for posterity, not censored.. Forever condemning iains with his own malevolent words... Final words, as requested. Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Jim Carroll - PM Date: 19 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM "Wot are you doin then, playing tiddleywinks?" Tellin it as it is Iains and you damn well know it given your peference of leaving survivors of a horrendous fire to sleep in the local park and taking the piss out of Corbyn for showing your concern over beds From your own mouth "try running that one past the shareholders! Get real!" We live under a system where the only guarantee of decent care is wealth, and you and yours are among the most vociferous in supporting that You use a tragedy to support that shitty situation by making political capital by denigrating those who would change it - you would even deprive us of our rights to milk humour out of the situation - I'm surprised someone as level-headed as Donuel should join you in this I have suffered from chronic bronchitis for most of my life and am of the age that puts me slap in the red-zone in this situation Pat has long term heart problems and is of a similar age Both of us are in the economic bracket that puts us a long way down the queue when it comes to a society that prioritises the wealthy - both of us stand little chance of survival should we catch the Dreaded Lurgi That sort of thing makes you acutely aware of your own situation making what I write not your scoring political points for the extreme right, as is your wont, but frighteningly real Nor tiddly-winks - but very real for people like us Jim Carroll Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: Iains - PM Date: 19 Mar 20 - 02:05 PM Well little jimmie we live in a democracy under the rule of law. This allows no place for your special kind of stupidity when it comes to sorting out the problems of society. You constantly bring up the same tired old arguments that a two year old would condemn for abject idiocy and when they are ripped apart by cold logic you resort to to your usual insults and then appeals to mods to ban people. This forum was a much cleaner place without your toxic presence. And dont bleat about how old you are. I am not interested as I am in the same demographic, so appeals to me for the sympathy vote are pissing in the wind. When you present arguments that are halfassed sensible you will receive reasoned responses. We will await the first with interest. Communism does not work in a democracy neither does rabid socialism. That is why the allotment man keeps losing. Most of us have managed to figure this out but sadly some have not the capacity. Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try From: punkfolkrocker - PM Date: 19 Mar 20 - 03:08 PM Iains - Did mudcat advertise for a toxic sociopath...??? An excellent presentation, you get the job... |