|
28 Mar 20 - 05:20 PM (#4042685) Subject: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: keberoxu Yet another German poem that has been set to music. The poet is Rudolph Baumbach (19th century) from his Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen. This poem about an otherwise unsung member of the plant kingdom is a satire, I believe, on the literary trope of lyrics about roses, violets, and the like. The humor and dry wit of the simple poem please me very much. DIE SCHNEEWURZ Rudolph Baumbach Der Winter ist eingezogen Im Hermelingewand, Hat über der Ströme Wogen Eine feste Brücke gespannt. Er kam aus nordischer Fremde Auf eisiger Winde Spur Und hat ein Todtenhemde Gebreitet über die Flur. Die junge Keime zagen Und zittern in Todesnoth; Die frierenden Vögel klagen, "O weh, die Sonne ist todt!" Da regt sich's im Grunde leise, Die Decke knistert und bricht, Die Schneewurz aus dem Eise Steigt singend an das Licht: Ich brauche nicht Regen, Nicht Sonnenglüh'n, Kann allerwegen Grünen und blüh'n. Nicht frommt mir Gekose Vom Mailüftlein, Ich bin keine Rose, Will keine sein, Kann Immen und Hummeln Nicht Honig bieten; Sie sollen sich tummeln Um andre Blüthen. Kein Finger flicht mich Zum Maienkranz, Kein Mädchen bricht mich Zum Reihentanz, Und wenn ich verderbe, Schafft's keinem Pein: Ich blühe und sterbe Für mich allein. |
|
28 Mar 20 - 06:23 PM (#4042700) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,keberoxu The Brothers Grimm, in their standard work on the German language, identify "Schneewurz" as Pinguicula vulgaris. This plant seems to have medicinal/healing qualities. |
|
28 Mar 20 - 09:37 PM (#4042733) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: leeneia This poem is beyond me, but I have learned that P. vulgaris is a carnivorous plant that grows in cold, rocky places. The last two verses say: No finger plucks me for a maiden's wreath. No girl takes me to the line dance. And when I perish, I cause no pain. I bloom and die for myself alone. =========== Yes, I doubt if anybody outside the Addams family puts carnivorous plants in a bouquet. |
|
28 Mar 20 - 10:26 PM (#4042739) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Joe Offer I went on a "Botanische Woche" hiking tour in Zermatt, Switzerland, in July 2015. It was wonderful. There were 6 Americans, 10 Swiss, and one physician from Berlin. The Americans took me along as their interpreter, but everybody spoke English very well. Our guide was 78 years old, and climbed those mountains like a mountain goat. He knew all the flowers we came across, but he and the Swiss participants preferred to use the Latin names of the flowers. I had to keep asking for the German names, because it's the common names that give the folklore behind the plant. Pinguilara vulgaris is known as "common butterwort" in English. -Joe- |
|
29 Mar 20 - 06:12 AM (#4042797) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,Grishka The poem seems to me a "parody" only in an older meaning of the word, not meant to ridicule anything. Rather, it describes the true artist as a kind of hermit, primarily striving to satisfy her/his own standards. In times of Corona, many of us have turned hermits against their will, others became virtual exhibitionists. As for botany (in which, as usually, Google is my scholarship), the plant seems to be Helleborus niger. Needless to say that this one, like all others, is able to procreate; so are many apparently "hermetic" artists. |
|
29 Mar 20 - 10:11 AM (#4042860) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: keberoxu Now I come across another [online] source that says that "Schneewurz" means Sedum telephium, which is something else again. But Sedum telephium's description (in my native English) corresponds nicely with the description in the poem: winter cold does not bother it, and it can grow in the shade. Leeneia, the beginning of the poem is a description of the forest in the grip of a bitter winter, freezing the streams, killing off young growing plants, while the Schneewurz pushes itself through the cold earth and sings its own homely little song. While the "frozen" birds are singing "O, woe, the sun is dead!" |
|
29 Mar 20 - 10:31 AM (#4042868) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: keberoxu ... and where is Steve Shaw the botanist when you need him? |
|
29 Mar 20 - 10:32 AM (#4042869) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Joe Offer http://woerterbuchnetz.de/DWB/call_wbgui_py_from_form?sigle=DWB&lemid=GS14878&hitlist=&textpattern=&lemmapattern=gon&patternlist=L:gon&mode=Vernetzung says Schneewurz is pinguicul vulgaris, but a common name like Schneewurz could easily apply to two flowers. A sedum is likely to be a far prettier flower - sedums are succulents with showy flowers. That seems to fit the poem better. It's kinda fun to try google.de when looking up German stuff. It opens a whole new world. Joe |
|
29 Mar 20 - 01:52 PM (#4042919) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: leeneia Thanks for the translation, keb. Joe, your experiences and thoughts are interesting. Apropos of almost nothing here, I recently saw some carnivorous plants in Newfoundland, growing among rocks from the mantle (very rare rocks) where almost nothing else will grow. |
|
29 Mar 20 - 03:36 PM (#4042936) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,keberoxu You are right, Joe, "Schnee-wurz" translated literally would mean "snow - wort," and just what is "snow -wort"? |
|
29 Mar 20 - 04:59 PM (#4042952) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: MudGuard I know "Schneewurz" under it's more popular German name "Christrose" It is one of the few plants flowering around Christmas time, often the flowers break thru the snow. Latin name is "Helleborus niger" As the poem begins with "Der Winter ist eingezogen" ("The winter has come") and later on says "Die Decke knistert und bricht, Die Schneewurz aus dem Eise Steigt" "the cover is breaking, the Schneewurz is climbing out of the ice" this sounds very much like Helleborus niger. "Pinguicula vulgaris" I know as "(Gemeines) Fettkraut", not "Schneewurz" ('Gemein' means 'common' in this context). It is flowering May to August - not in winter ... "Sedum telephium" or "Hylotelephium telephium" is in German known as "Große Fetthenne". It is flowering July to September ... |
|
29 Mar 20 - 05:41 PM (#4042957) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Joe Offer Thanks, MudGuard. I had hoped you would come in to save the day. So, we know now that Schneewurz isn't a sedum, but I have to say something about sedums anyhow because some of my favorite wildflowers are sedums. They are leaf succulents, so their leaves are often puffy with the water they store. There are two succulents are Stonecrops in the American River Canyon below us, and I love them both. One is the Canyon Dudleya (not a sedum) an orange, rock-growing plant with fairly insignificant flowers. It grows in cracks in granite, where you just wouldn't imagine a plant could grow. Pacific sedum grows in similar terrain and has puffy leaves and showy yellow flowers. Every flower I come across has stories behind it, and most flowers have multiple names. Wildflowers are wonderful mysteries to explore. I'm a rank amateur, but the two women who invited us on the Botanische Woche in Zermatt are real professionals who have written fascinating flower books. It's a thrill to take flower hikes with them. -Joe- |
|
29 Mar 20 - 07:54 PM (#4042985) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: leeneia "Wort" in an archaic word meaning "plant" as in lungwort and St John's wort. |
|
29 Mar 20 - 08:01 PM (#4042989) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: keberoxu ... right, and isn't 'wort' also a specific category of plant? |
|
29 Mar 20 - 08:15 PM (#4042990) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Steve Shaw Well I can't do anything with German. Nothing I've found has associated the plant in the thread title with butterworts (Pinguicula spp) or big sedums such as Sedum telephium (which we call orpine or livelong in the UK). I'll have to take your word that those awful hellebores might be the answer, but, to be honest, no plant I've mentioned here rouses poetic thoughts in me. But then again, as I know no German and think that the average person who speaks German for more than ten seconds is on the verge of projectile vomiting, I may not be the best person to ask... When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of the plant we call sneezewort (Achillea ptarmica), but that's yet another weedy little thing that has its place but which doesn't immediately spring out as poetry material... |
|
29 Mar 20 - 08:19 PM (#4042992) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Steve Shaw We pronounce "-wort" in plant names "wert." It often suggests medicinal or culinary properties. |
|
29 Mar 20 - 10:09 PM (#4043009) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,keberoxu Just to confuse matters further: I looked -- okay, Googled -- for "snow wort" in English just to see who comes out to play, and I found this: Niphaea oblonga Abrotanella nivigena ... does no-one have a clue? |
|
29 Mar 20 - 10:27 PM (#4043014) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Joe Offer Well, in general, "Wort" in English and "Wurz" in German both mean "plant." So, it's a pretty generic term. I've heard Wurz in German mostly in the diminutive Würzel, and then I think of Mudcatter Carly Gewirz and her bearded brother Bruce. Steve says, "the average person who speaks German for more than ten seconds is on the verge of projectile vomiting." I might agree, and I remember my first German teacher teaching us the explosive "Z" sound in "zeigen" back in 1962. He was 76 years old, and he'd start with the "ts" sound and then hold his breath until his face got red, and then he'd let it all out with a force that would spread coronavirus to the whole classroom. But then I went to the U.S. Army Language school beautiful Monterey in California, and we had a lovely teacher named Frau Wray who had been an opera singer, and I fell in love with the German language (and with her). And when I visited Salzburg, the music was as beautiful and musical as she spoke it. Not so in Berlin, where I lived. I linkified a number of plant names in posts above, and I hope nobody minds. -Joe- |
|
30 Mar 20 - 04:56 AM (#4043054) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,Grishka With all the botany we should not forget the poetry. Die Schneewurz aus dem Eisetranslates: "The *** from the ice rises singing to the light" – here the poet raises the veil a bit; the plant is indeed meant as a metaphor for a singer, or an artist in general. Back to botany: Ich bin keine Rose,is another clue in favour of Helleborus niger, which, as MudGuard pointed out, is also known as Christrose or Schneerose. "I am not a rose, don't want to be one" – that's what highbrow artists would tell the world, often without being asked, hoping for protest. |
|
30 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM (#4043078) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Steve Shaw I went down another track, finding plants that can push through snow. There's snowdrops and there's that glorified cudweed we call edelweiss. But it isn't either of those (I don't think)... |
|
30 Mar 20 - 07:00 AM (#4043083) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Senoufou I purport to speak German (only A level, and I never 'fell in love' with it as I did with French) and I'm wondering if the Schneewurz is just a general name (snow-plant) for a flower such as the snowdrop which pushes through the snow. I'm afraid when I was learning German, my father would snort in disgust (he spent the entire War fighting them!) at my accurate but gutteral pronunciation. We had a very nice German chap at the grammar school (an assistant) whose accent was hochdeutsch. But I absolutely hated chanting "Der, die das den dem denen deren dessen" and "Aus bei mit nach von zu zeit". And THREE genders! Nah. Now I prefer a language called Broad Norfolk. I speak it fluently! |
|
30 Mar 20 - 11:47 AM (#4043142) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: leeneia All did all that too, Senoufou. Decades later I met a woman who had work in intelligence and had learned German in a thrice. As to the definite articles, she said, "Just say duh." It occurred to me later that the German fondness for long compound words means that one doesn't have to specify or even know which definite articles are needed for the words being compounded. |
|
30 Mar 20 - 12:22 PM (#4043154) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Senoufou The woman you met was probably correct leeneia, but we had of course a lot of written exams, and absolute accuracy was necessary, as marks were knocked off for non-agreement of adjectives, or case-changes etc. We used to giggle at such monstrosities such as achttausendneunhundertdreiundvierzig' (eight thousand nine hundred and forty three) all joined together in a daft string. I think I learn more easily a language whose sounds appeal. I often wonder if my fate in life was already decided, because when I was about three years old I would speak in a 'pretend' language I called 'African'.I used implosive consonants such as 'mbai'. My mother was astonished, yet here I am married to a Senoufo whose native tongue is Malinke. His sister's husband is called Mbai. Sorry about this disgraceful thread drift, but languages fascinate me! |
|
30 Mar 20 - 12:38 PM (#4043164) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: GUEST,Grishka The best way of learning a language is to sing. My mother sang Brahms etc. when I was a child, with a strong accent but inevitably correct grammar; I followed her example and am slowly getting rid of the accent. My best teachers of English were the Beatles (Liverpudlian/Mid-Atlantic, but better than nothing). |
|
30 Mar 20 - 04:47 PM (#4043224) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: MudGuard Wurz in German is related to Wurzel (root), but also to Gewürz (spice). Many plants that have a name ending with wurz are (or were in former times) used to flavour meals. |
|
30 Mar 20 - 04:53 PM (#4043226) Subject: RE: botany, German: 'Die Schneewurz' From: Steve Shaw The farmers round here grow hundreds of acres of mangold wurzels, also known as fodder beet. |