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10 May 20 - 01:48 PM (#4051661) Subject: Civil War Song From: GUEST,Murpholly Seeking words of what I believe is a song of the Civil War *English) Where are you going to Said Milner to Malner I will not tell you Said Thissle to foe. Or something like that. Any help |
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10 May 20 - 01:58 PM (#4051663) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: The Sandman i think it is earlier, its sometimes called the cutty wren |
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10 May 20 - 01:59 PM (#4051664) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Joe Offer Hi, Murpholly - I've crosslinked you to our vast collection on wren songs. I think you'll find something there that is similar to the song you seek. -Joe- |
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10 May 20 - 02:48 PM (#4051673) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll It's claimed, though with no great evidence, to go as far back as one of the peasants revolts - there wer several Oh where are you going? said Milder to Moulder Oh we may not tell you! said Festel to Fose We're off to the wood! said John the Red Nose We're off to the wood! said John the Red Nose And what will you do there? said Milder to Moulder Oh we may not tell you! said Festel to Fose We'll shoot the cutty wren! said John the Red Nose We'll shoot the cutty wren! said John the Red Nose Oh how will you cut him up? said Milder to Moulder Oh we may not tell you! said Festel to Fose With knives and with forks! said John the Red Nose With knives and with forks! said John the Red Nose And who´ll get the spare ribs? said Milder to Moulder Oh we may not tell you! said Festel to Fose We'll give them all to the poor! said John the Red Nose We'll give them all to the poor! said John the Red Nose Jim Carroll |
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13 May 20 - 08:47 AM (#4052221) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Murpholly That's the one. Thanks very muchg Jim |
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13 May 20 - 09:11 AM (#4052225) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll Glad to know The Ian Campbell Folk group recorded in on a very early Topic E.P. several lifetimes ago - I seem to remember they made a great job of it I suppose you know the related rhymes claimed to be from the same Period From memory When Adam delved and Eve span Who was then the Gentleman or The law locks up the man or woman who steals the goose from off the common, But leaves the greater villain loose, who steals the Common off the Goose I researched the last one for a talk I gave on Folk song and history and found it had more verses Jim |
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15 May 20 - 06:05 AM (#4052570) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Murpholly Thought that was a different song. Watt Tyler was a man from history And he had a dream to set the English peasants free Fuelled by the rise of the poll tax under Edward the third The corruption of the nobles the corrulption of the church When Adam delved and Eve span Who lthen was the gentleman etc. |
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15 May 20 - 06:29 AM (#4052571) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll Tyler's rebellion was one of a number of Peasant's revolts involving the seizure of common land - all probably produced songs and rhymes The last in England was The Mass trespass protests in Derbyshire in 1932 which gave us 'Manchester Rambler and England's first national Park The Scottish Clearances over the same issue produced quite a few songs in Scots Gaelic - it seems song and land seizure are inseparable Murph Jim |
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15 May 20 - 06:38 AM (#4052573) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jack Campin The idea that The Cutty Wren relates to the Peasants Revolt of 1381 is due to A.L.Lloyd. He was making it up. |
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15 May 20 - 06:54 AM (#4052575) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll Not proven Jack - it was around long before Bert claimed it Bert may have been economical with his background information (at a time when such things were not regaded as some people would claim they are today, but so were a lot of people The Dialect Society was once slated for not archiving Phil Tanner's songs when they took dialect words from him - they didn't think them important, so many of them were lost Jim Carroll |
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15 May 20 - 07:00 AM (#4052577) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll Nearly forgot It has been suggested that Lloyd got the 'Peasant's Revolt' theory from Arnold Wesker's play, ' Chips With Everything' which featured the song Jim |
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15 May 20 - 11:51 AM (#4052625) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: MartinNail Chips with Everything was first performed in 1962. Bert Lloyd was propounding the Peasants' Revolt theory in 1944 (in The Singing Englishman and in the Pioneer song book). |
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15 May 20 - 12:30 PM (#4052629) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll You are right of course, where he describes the songs origins as "a theory" - far from Jack's 'invention' Elsewhere on the wed is is suggested it dates back as far as II76 I don;'t know th truth of this song but I do know Bert has been long enough dead to have the good manners not to accusing him of making anything up. It becomes a little tiresome to see the reputation of people who gave us so much pleasure and inspiration exhumed and be administered a kicking when they are no longer around to answer for themselves Nobody knows when these songs originated and we're all entitled to our theories Jim |
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15 May 20 - 01:18 PM (#4052633) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: Jim Carroll Sorry that should read 1776 Jim |
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16 May 20 - 02:52 AM (#4052700) Subject: RE: Civil War Song From: GUEST,threelegsoman I uploaded my own version of The Cutty Wren about eight years ago on hearing of the death of Ian Campbell. The Cutty Wren (Including lyrics and chords) |