|
13 May 20 - 03:52 PM (#4052305) Subject: Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Hi. There are several threads devoted to Harry Linn's songs c1865 to 1890 but they could do to be pulled together. We have dedicated threads to Harry Clifton and Joe Geoghegan with plenty of detail and dating, but there is very little on Harry Linn. Nothing much comes up by Googling also. Like Clifton's and Geoghegan's songs many survived in oral tradition. Even if we only manage to accurately date some of them it will be useful. Even Kilgarriff only has a small list of his songs. Here are those we know survived in oral tradition: Eggs for your Breakfast in the Morning Get a little table Jim the Carter Lad When the Cock begins to crow You never miss the water till the well runs dry. (By the way I expressed an opinion on another thread that he may have written 'The Jolly Wagonner'. This was patently wrong as TJW dates back at least to the 1790s.) Like many of his ilk (Clifton) he didn't live very long 1845-1890. |
|
13 May 20 - 04:05 PM (#4052307) Subject: RE: Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Have you seen the following, Steve? https://books.google.ca/books?id=B9cIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP6&lpg=PP6&dq=Harry+Linn%27s+Fireside+song+book&source=bl&ots=e1BWDpIHLy&sig=A |
|
13 May 20 - 04:17 PM (#4052308) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Joe Offer Here's a little more succinct link to Harry Linn's Fireside Songbook, published by Pettigrew in 18884. There's a little red link near the upper-left corner that says EBOOK-FREE. It will allow you to download the book in various formats. |
|
13 May 20 - 05:19 PM (#4052318) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Hi Joe, Tried the red button but it appears they haven't actually got a copy. Managed to look at the starts of 3 songs but that was all. It would be a good start if we could get a copy. |
|
13 May 20 - 06:58 PM (#4052325) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: cnd You should be able to read it; I was able to see all 12 songs. Songs were: Speculation I'm not a Mug Give Back the Land I Love the Bonnie Lasses Handsome Highland Donald Such a Nice Young Gal We Can't Get On without Them Bonnie Jeanie Deans The Grass will grow again The Cottage where Burns was Born The Highlandman's Toast Milking the Cows in the Afternoon All 12 songs were visible in the Google Books eBook or on the link Starship provided -- though only 8 pages total, there are usually about 1.5-2 per page If you still can't see them I can help in transcribing them from there but it's a bit of a tedious process unless you're worried about the eBook disappearing/being removed (or can't read it, maybe they've restricted what countries its visible in?). |
|
13 May 20 - 07:27 PM (#4052327) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship It would be worth comparing "The Grass Will Grow Again" written by Harry Linn found in the 1884 publication noted previously, and 'Sunny Days Will Come Again' (p.6, lower half and p.7) where the writer is noted as being Edwin Ransford in his own book published in 1873. https://books.google.ca/books?id=SuMIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA7&dq=%22never+boys+give+way+to+sorrow%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAnr63-7HpAhVx |
|
14 May 20 - 06:59 AM (#4052411) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Thanks for that. I'll try again though personally I'm only interested in those that have been found in oral tradition, probably his earlier songs as none are mentioned here. Useful to have these titles up as a strat though. Also unless we can see the title page we can't be certain these are all songs that he has written himself. Joe offer's Fireside Songbook' quite likely would contain songs sung by Joe but not necessarily written by him. Just for extra titles here are Kilgarriff's entries for Linn in the Lyricists and Composers section. Did you ever see a Feather in a Tomcat's Tail? (Music by Minnie Cunningham c1890) Get a Little Table (arr. W, Simm) 1882 Never push a man when he's going down. (Arr M. Hobson) 1869 (SG: Hobson also arranged many of Harry Clifton's songs about the same time and Clifton was noted for these 'motto' songs) When the Cock begins to Crow (music Rowland Howard). Here are those in the Artistes Repertoires section: The fattest Man in the Forty Twa get a Little Table Going Down the Hill Help One Another Boys Jim the Carter Lad Keep to the Right Never be downhearted boys Never dip your oar too deep Never push a man when he's going down Pull slow and steady boys Wake up, Johnny When the Cock begins to Crow Where there's life there's hope Y'heave Oh! You never miss the water till the well runs dry. I'll add my own sheets later. The cover of When the Cock is online at the V&A website. |
|
14 May 20 - 09:25 AM (#4052430) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Steve, in the 'Songbook' there are some titles attributed to HL and others not. I'd expect he's only claiming those with his name near the title and the others aren't his, although those without his name are not attributed to anyone. |
|
14 May 20 - 10:09 AM (#4052441) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Thanks, Starship. |
|
14 May 20 - 10:45 AM (#4052450) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Rowland Howard's "You Never Miss the Water Till the Well Runs Dry" from the LOC: https://www.loc.gov/resource/ihas.100010828.0?st=gallery |
|
14 May 20 - 11:52 AM (#4052456) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship This is very interesting. "Alexander Crawford (alias Harry Linn)" from http://www.spiersfamilygroup.co.uk/The%20Stoutest%20Man%20in%20the%20Forty.pdf |
|
14 May 20 - 12:36 PM (#4052459) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Good lord I am slow bordering on witless. I didn't until a few minutes ago realize that Harry Linn was a stage name. He was born Alexander Crawford. DOH. |
|
14 May 20 - 02:43 PM (#4052483) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Perhaps I should have stated earlier which sheets I have copies of. When the Cock Begins to Crow (cover only) John Macraw, no cover and not original as it's dated 1908. You Never Miss the Water, full copy Hopwood & Crew stock no1984. Jim the carter Lad (full photocopy) Published by George Bell of Leeds. I think those are the only Linn sheet music I have, but I probably have others on broadsides. |
|
15 May 20 - 09:12 AM (#4052597) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship The song entitled 'Did You Ever See a Feather ON a Tomcat's Tail?' is somewhere in the following collection: https://finding-aids.lib.unc.edu/30006/ |
|
15 May 20 - 09:32 AM (#4052599) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Never Push a Man Going Down Hill https://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/025/079 I don't know if that's the song, but the title is close. |
|
15 May 20 - 09:41 AM (#4052601) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Probably not the same song although Tony Pastor ripped off a lot of Harry Clifton's songs and just changed the place names to American ones. A lot of this went on both ways across the pond. |
|
15 May 20 - 09:58 AM (#4052604) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Just found 'Pull Slow and Steady' at https://books.google.ca/books?id=3Lk_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA356&dq=Never+dip+your+oar+too+deep&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHm4yngrbpAhWIVN8KHS |
|
15 May 20 - 10:03 AM (#4052605) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship That makes sense, Steve. Some things I'm finding suggest there was more than a little give and take between the UK and the US. Another place to look that people often forget about is Google Images. I do apologize for cluttering your thread. It's sheet music you're looking for and not lyrics. |
|
15 May 20 - 10:08 AM (#4052606) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship With regard to the following, why would one song have two titles?? https://cobs.rollerorgans.com/cobs/293/home |
|
15 May 20 - 03:07 PM (#4052643) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Fairly common practice going back at least to the 17th century on broadsides. They usually appear on the front cover with 'or' in between. The first name is the title most commonly used but sometimes if the second title is more succinct or occurs in the chorus it gets known by that name. And you are not cluttering the thread at all. You are as usual adding much useful information for future researchers. It would be good to put a date to some of his earlier songs that went into oral tradition. 'Jim the Carter Lad' is probably the most famous and appears in plenty of collections. |
|
15 May 20 - 03:51 PM (#4052650) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Thank you, Steve. The following may be of help on other of his songs/poems. http://composers-classical-music.com/h/HowardRowland.htm |
|
15 May 20 - 04:14 PM (#4052654) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship The Fattest Man in the Forty Twa (Sheet music there) https://digital.gonzaga.edu/digital/collection/p15486coll3/id/21030 |
|
15 May 20 - 06:24 PM (#4052673) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Yes, some useful dates there. Thanks. That must be the cover off my 1908, Jock McGraw. I'll print it off when I get my new printer up and running. However, Linn died in 1890 so presumably there are earlier copies. |
|
15 May 20 - 08:52 PM (#4052687) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=12263 Another take for which I'll compare lyrics to the 1908 version. |
|
16 May 20 - 11:49 AM (#4052786) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Found an interesting comment on YouTube while looking for versions of the song. "Bill McRobb 1 month ago The song is about Sergeant McGaw of the Black Watch, 42nd Highlanders, who won the VC in the Ashanti War of 1874 during the Gold Coast campaign (now Ghana) the medals have Coomassie on them." From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaWExv0KQ74 |
|
16 May 20 - 01:37 PM (#4052810) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Thanks again, Star. Printed off the colour cover sheet with my new printer/scanner. Great stuff. Back in business. |
|
16 May 20 - 01:55 PM (#4052818) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Cool, Steve. Glad it worked out. https://www.maybole.org/community/kirkmichael/sergeant_samuel_mcgaw.htm Something to check later. |
|
16 May 20 - 03:00 PM (#4052833) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship . . . and the thought plickens: http://blackwatch.www6.50megs.com/vc9.html |
|
16 May 20 - 03:23 PM (#4052839) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Steve, do you have the earliest date for the Jock McGraw song? |
|
16 May 20 - 03:59 PM (#4052846) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham I don't have a date for the song and am dubious about connections to real people in the Forty-twa. Sam doesn't appear to have been fat enough to be described as such. |
|
16 May 20 - 04:06 PM (#4052854) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: Steve Gardham Hmm, it would seem the song is loosely based on the famed character, but M'Gaw was described as 'stout' meaning staunch rather than fat and Linn has interpreted this as 'fat'. |
|
16 May 20 - 04:09 PM (#4052856) Subject: RE: Songs of Harry Linn From: GUEST,Starship Many thanks. |