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05 Jan 00 - 02:50 PM (#158483) Subject: Cape Breton Song From: peg This song appears on Capercaille's album Delirium (or maybe it is Get Out). Anyway there are only two verses sung; and no lyrics printed, just an explanation that says it has mutated in the course of oral transmission... Ther lyrics do appear in Songs Remembered in Exile, but I cannot afford this book! Anyone have a copy? or other source for the Scots Gaelic lyrics to this song? It is basically a lament about coming to America and missing Nova Scotia. I have been able to learn to sing it from listening and my own rudimentary knowledge of the language...but want to be sure I am getting the words right. Also would like some more verses. Any help is greatly appreciated! peg |
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05 Jan 00 - 07:32 PM (#158627) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oran Nan Tèine From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca The actual song is Oran Nan Teine. Craig Cockburn and I have been talking about this for a couple of years. Last year I got information on the name of the song. Apparently it was printed in a newspaper, The Casket, in Antigonish sometime in the last 100 years. The people at Rosemary Mccormack hasn't been able to locate the song itself. She told me as recently as a year ago that she has it but hasn't been able to locate it. |
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06 Jan 00 - 11:19 AM (#158971) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: peg thanks George; at least it is a start. I will try to find out if that is in deed the title of what I am thinking of. If that book were not so freaking expensive (70 dollars last I checked) I would just get it...it will have to wait for now. any other help; thanks in advance! peg |
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06 Jan 00 - 05:30 PM (#159162) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca I have that book and as far as I know it isn't in that book. I think the Capercaille people would have mentioned it being in that particular book since it's been available for quite some time. Do you know any of the words at all? |
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07 Jan 00 - 11:20 AM (#159560) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: peg George, like I mentioned I have learned the lyrics to those first two verses by sounding it out. Since I do know some Scots Gaelic, it all vaguely resembles actual words, but I cannot be completely sure of exactly which ones. In other words, I may think it is a particular word but it could be one that is only similar. So at best I have only been able to reconstruct parts of the lyrics. A Harvard Celtic Studies grad gave a paper at the Colloquium last year on songs from Nova Scotia where he read a verse or two; I asked if I could have a copy of it but he steered me towards that book instead. I have not discovered if the sing actually does reside there. Maybe I will ask Michael next time I se him and say I have had trouble locating those lyrics and would he please let me use his sources. anyway thanks for your help. I am gonna keep looking. peg
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08 Jan 00 - 12:39 AM (#159829) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Well, please keep checking here, or e-mail me. I do have that book but I can't see it there. I know exactly what you mean about the sounds being other words. I have done that sort of thing too, and it takes a long time to work through the possibilities. Wouldn't mind seeing what you've worked out so far. I have the tape and not the CD so it's more difficult to do the play, back up and re-play thing. |
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10 Jan 00 - 01:07 PM (#160749) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: peg hey george; well as far as "seeing" it it would be difficult for me to wriet it down since there are several possibilities in Gaelic for some of the lyrics I have worked out... it would be easier for me to sing it for you, actually! this is one I have not recorded since I was never sure how accurate I was, and since I wanted more than two verses...but I do want to record an a cappella version of it *very* badly on any upcoming recording projects I do...i have something in the works but pulling together musicians, etc. is taking some time... in the meantime I could just make a little old "field" recording on my Sony boombox and send it to you if you are really that interested.. best peg
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10 Jan 00 - 06:51 PM (#160899) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Philippa Have you tried the Capercaillie website? It gives lyrics arranged by album |
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11 Jan 00 - 12:17 PM (#161143) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: peg Philippa; thanks for the suggestion. They do not list it there; like I said, the album itself only states the lyrics cannot be translated because they have mutated in the course of oral trasmission, or something like that... I did, however, find lots of lyrics for Ailein Duinn; most of which are very unlike the ones I have been singing for years; seems like there are several versions included there, which is interesting. It is a nice website which I will bookmark. thanks. Stil looking for this song though! Will let y'all know how it turns out. peg |
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12 Jan 00 - 11:09 AM (#161671) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca We're almost there! I got a response to the e-mail I sent Rosemary the other day, after this thread started. She's narrowing down the piles of papers she is sorting through, and thinks it is in the set she is working on right now. She has remembered the name of the author as being Lachlann Curry, Am Bard Ruadh. Apparently the song is a well turned out one by this bard. The song is in amongst papers given to Rosemary from the heirs of Joe Lawrence MacDonald. She hopes to type it up in the next day or so for me. So, you'll have it then! |
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12 Jan 00 - 12:35 PM (#161707) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: peg George; you are the best! For your troubles you and Rosemary get a free copy of my next tape or CD when it comes out with that song on it...just send me yer particulars or stay in touch thru email (amberapple@aol.com). I just have random demo stuff now but if ya want something sooner rather than later I can do that, too...I promise, it is easy on the ears... many many thanks... gosh I love it here... peg |
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04 Apr 00 - 03:28 PM (#206646) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg just refreshing this as I would still like the complete lyrics; anyone have this song??? George, did you ever hear back from your friend? thanks, Peg |
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04 Apr 00 - 05:21 PM (#206688) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Not yet, Peg. I hate to push her. She's teaching Gaelic in the Iona school system. |
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04 Apr 00 - 05:32 PM (#206692) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg ah, I hear ya. For a beautiful song I can be patient as the hills; let's stay in touch on this one, okay? Thanks a lot!!! peg |
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25 Mar 02 - 10:58 PM (#676310) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song - Capercaillie From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Just to refresh this with a little newer information It IS mentioned in the book, Songs Remembered in Exile from John Lorne Campbell. This was published in the early 1990s, from Eidophone recordings made by John Lorne Campbell, in the late 1930s. Appaarently Mr Campbell had recorded this from two informants, Mrs. J.R. Johnston (nee Margaret MacNeil) of Beaver Cove, and also, Mrs David Patterson (nee MacNeil) of Benacadie. The song, Òran Nan Téine, was written by Lachlan MacMhuirich(Currie), Am Bàrd Ruadh. Ths song was about a forest fire that had gotten out of hand when a Cape Bretoner was clearing land to sow. The last paragraph in the bio of Mrs. Johnston says "that these recordings cannot be played today". Well, it seems to me that I remember reading about some old wax recordings which were "read" by a laser beam and a sound file generated. Would it be sensible to think that such technology would be able to do the same with Eidophone recordings? |
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07 Apr 02 - 06:43 PM (#685163) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Here are two web-pages on that subject: NYTimes - Syracuse University Researchers design machine to read wax cylinders |
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08 Apr 02 - 01:24 AM (#685329) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg fabulous! Thanks for the information and links, George. This song's lyrics are also found under "Dean Cadalan Samhach" and it is in the DT. Peg
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08 Apr 02 - 06:45 AM (#685377) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Peg. Are you sure? Dean Cadalan Samhach is a lullaby, well documented. Written by John MacRae or in some people's eyes, his wife. |
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08 Apr 02 - 10:49 AM (#685478) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca I'm sure some of the Scottish folk would have twigged if it was Dean Cadalan Samhach. |
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09 Apr 02 - 12:22 AM (#685906) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg George; these lyrics exactly mimic the first two verses of this song as recorded by Capecaille; so yes, I am guessing it is the same song. I do not know if the tune they used was traditional for these lyrics; it does not really sound like a lullaby to me, as they recorded it; too sad and the rhythm is not very regular... It also seems to me I have seen more than one song with that lyric and title, dean cadalach samhach; so maybe there's more than one?
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06 Sep 02 - 11:34 PM (#778453) Subject: Lyr Add: ORAN AN TÉINE From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Ciarili sent this to me: ORAN AN TÉINE 'S tim dhomh dol an ordugh |
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07 Sep 02 - 12:18 AM (#778465) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: GUEST,ciarili I hasten to add that this is in need of some correction. I have " " around letters that were obscure on the fax I got from Pam MacLean of the Angus MacDonald Library at St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish. She is sending me the hard copy, which I ought to receive sometime next week, at which point I'll also add the two missing lines indicated with ??. Interestingly, though it seems to have been the band that said they never wrote out the lyrics because they had been badly corrupted and rendered meaningless through oral transmission, Karen sings EXACTLY what was published in The Casket. She sings verses 1, 3, and 4. I have emailed them and asked if this is their source. Of course, they never answer anything, but they're pretty busy. Any fluent folks out there interested in contributing a translation, Aodh?!
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08 Sep 02 - 12:18 PM (#779108) Subject: Lyr Add: ORAN AN TÉINE From: ciarili Here it is with George's corrections: 'S tim dhomh dol an ordugh Is teannadh ri òran Mu 'n duine rinn an dobheart Bu choire dhuinn 'aoireadh, Nuair leig e' n téin' air fogradh A mach air feadh nam frogaibh, 'S nuair chaidh e feadh na coinich Bha 'n seo feadh an t-saoighail. séist: Nach nar an sealladh e 's an Eilean, Smearsaid air feadh na beinne, Pàirceannan chuir 'n an téine Le coire chlann daoine. Bu turus na truaighe Nuair thug e 'n teine suas leis G"u"n chuir 's a' mhosgan ruadh Gus na ghual e 'n a chraoslach; Nuair fhuair an soirbheas greinn air, 'S a chaidh e anns an droighnich Chan fhaicamaid ach soills' Agus boilsgeach gach taobh dhuinn, Gur e Dòmhnull Raonuill An uair sin bha 'n a eigin A teicheadh as a leine, Ag eigheach 's a' glaodhaich; Anna 's i fo ghruaman, Rannaidh an taobh shuas dhi, 'S thug Alasdair as ruaig Mar gu 'm bualach an caoch e. Sin far an robh smuid Nuair a chaidh e 's an "spruis" dhluth, Ghabh e mach air feadh a' Chùil 'S gur e 'n Grudair a dhioghail; Nuair loisgeadh air a' phàirc Is a mhilleadh am buntata, ?? ?? 'S ann feasgar Di-Domhnaich Bha nathraichean 'g am fogradh, Bha maighich air an rosladh, Is coin air an slaopadh; B' e sud an gnothach graineil Dh' an fhear a chuir 'n an smàl iad; Cha ghearain sinn gu brach air Bho 'n shabhail na doine, 'S iomadh maigheach targhlas Bha ruith air feadh an àite, An Glagaire 'g an tarsdal, 'S e lan dhe 'n cuid gaoinne Gu 'n coinneachadh 's gach àite 'S air feadh na pàirc bhuntata, Gu 'n d' fhuair e 'n cuir an sas Ann am bathach nan caorach. 'S iomadh madadh-ruadh A bha ruith air feadh nam bruach, An iorbaill air an guaillean, Gu luath feadh an aonaich; Na fithich 's iad ag eigheach, Na rocaisean 'n an eigin, Na smeoraich iad fhéin, Thug iad reug, 's chan e 'n ioghnadh. Tha mi ann an dochas Gu 'n éisd sibh ris an òran, A' h-uile duine beò A tha comhnaidh an taobhan; Gu 'n toir sibh 'n air e 'n comhnuidh Ur gnathach a bhith doigheil, 'S gun téine chuir ri eoin Gus am pog a chuir aog oighn, |
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08 Sep 02 - 06:40 PM (#779285) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg The Cape Breton song as recorded by Capercaille does not correpsond to these lyrics at all (it only has two verses, too) but does this song appear on any of their albums with this title??? I am confused. I now want to find a recording of this song as I want to see how these lyrics fit. I am now not sure why George said the "actual song" is this one. Maybe he is thinking of a different recording? The one I originally asked about is indeed Dean Cadalan Samhach. In any case this adds some new information about more Gaelic songs and that is never wasted effort! |
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08 Sep 02 - 07:23 PM (#779302) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Now I am curious. Two songs, Dean Cadalan Samhach in the DT but no midi, and Oran an Téine, not in DT. Are the melodies available anywhere? And English for the latter? |
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08 Sep 02 - 07:29 PM (#779305) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: ciarili Peg, you'll find that Dean Cadalan Samhach is in the DT and also on George Seto's website. This song, though, Oran an Téine, had been really hard to come by. It is what Capercaillie calls Cape Breton Song. |
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08 Sep 02 - 07:37 PM (#779314) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Found Capercaillie's lyrics at this site (Album: The Blood Is Strong) with translation, "Sleep Softly, My darling Beloved." Don't know how to put it in html, but will try: perso.wanadoo.fr/dboucart/celte/artistes/caper/lyrics/DeanCadalanSamhach.htm Here goes: Dean |
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08 Sep 02 - 07:41 PM (#779316) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Hooray, it worked! Haven't seen the "perso" before. I prefaced it with http:// |
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08 Sep 02 - 07:55 PM (#779326) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg ciarili; are you sure? The album I recall having this one entitles it Cape Breton song, and it is the first two verses of Dan Cadalan Samhach...maybe they have more than one song called the Cape Breton Song? possible. The lyrics tell of missing Nova Scotia after moving to North Carolina...I may be losing my mind but I think I have a pretty solid memory of this as I went to great lengths to listen to it again and again and get the words..I think it may be that in his first post George thought I meant an entirely different song... In any case thanks for tracking down any of these lyrics! I am always thriled to add to my Gaelic repertoire. I taught this one to my Gaelic Women's poetry class last semester in fact... BTE Dicho, that song you posted a link to (thanks!) STARTS with what is the SECOND verse of Dean Cadalan Samhach, or, as Capercaille sings it, the Cape Breton Song... I am wondering if we are working with similar texts and different tunes now?
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08 Sep 02 - 08:57 PM (#779356) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: ciarili Seriously, the song they list as "Cape Breton Song" is Oran an Téine. I just listened to it from their Live, In Concert album, and it's on Delirium. Dean Cadalan Samhach appears on The Blood Is Strong and Get Out, and was written in North Carolina way back when. |
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08 Sep 02 - 11:19 PM (#779411) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg hmmm... This still does not compute with what I remember! I must go dig up those CDs. Ah well as least I got a new song out of all this!
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09 Sep 02 - 12:16 AM (#779440) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) The "Cape Breton Song" by Capercaillie also is on a compilation album, 1990-1996, and on a live concert album. These may be imports only. |
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09 Sep 02 - 12:19 AM (#779445) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: Peg I like their version of Am Buachailin Ban, too. But I think those lyrics might be easier to come by. A recent CD just came out with Jacobite songs on it; I think doing a CD with just Bonny Prince Charlie songs might be cool.
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09 Sep 02 - 01:43 AM (#779473) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: ciarili Do you need am buachailin ban? I've got all their trad'l stuff except for gun teann mi ris na ruinn tha seo, so I'll send you anything you like to tide you over until you get my cd. |
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10 Sep 02 - 04:41 PM (#780721) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: GUEST,guest See thread 51302 for final version from Ciarili: Cape Breton Song-Oran an Téine |
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28 May 04 - 02:19 AM (#1195657) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: ciarili George Seto turned me on to this site, which has a different version of Oran an Teine: oran na teine |
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28 May 04 - 02:22 AM (#1195658) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song From: ciarili i had trouble refinding this thread because oran na teine, the actual title, is not in the subject line (it looks like the various threads have been braided into one big one). several tries with the search engine didn't find it, and neither did google. what's up with that?!
-Joe Offer- |
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28 May 04 - 12:02 PM (#1195985) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: ciarili Nope, this is perfect - this way anyone can find it. Thanks! |
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28 May 04 - 09:40 PM (#1196386) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: GUEST,saandy Mc Lean In the notes of the song posted by ciarili today it says that the fire starteed in Iron Mines near Boisedale. I would guess that it should be "Ironville". Iron Mines is on the outskirts of Whycocomagh. Slainte, Sandy |
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29 May 04 - 12:40 PM (#1196535) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Please note, it isn't Ciarili's fault. The information came from people doing work for Memorial University, who aren't FROM Cape Breton. Either that or they are students who don't t realize they have to check and double-check then triple-check all facts. That is an example of one of the errors that has shown up in the Memorial University information. Been going through them to find out what's what. It's good, but the site isn't GREAT yet. We'll just have to show them what an interactive system like Mudcat can accomplish in sorting out details like that.
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29 May 04 - 04:51 PM (#1196705) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: ciarili Sandy, your information prompted me to email them and ask after that. It's hard to find decent maps of Cape Breton online, but I managed to find one that showed Iron Mines & Ironville, just 'cause you got me curious! Hopefully they'll confirm their notes or post a correction. |
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23 Jan 11 - 10:38 PM (#3081153) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: GUEST,RigTim http://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/orain/oran_cheap_breatainn/ |
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24 Jan 11 - 04:37 PM (#3081641) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: Sandy Mc Lean I try and play it on that site RigTim but it it gives me a message in Gaelic saying that it is only for the UK. Strange why the BBC would not allow it to play in Cape Breton !!!??? |
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20 Mar 16 - 11:02 PM (#3780058) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cape Breton Song / Oran an Teine From: GUEST http://www.mun.ca/folklore/leach/songs/CB/2-05.htm |