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BS: Trump Actions and Effects

24 Jul 20 - 01:32 AM (#4065636)
Subject: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic

Part One

Back in 2003 I was working out of my home state. I was sent to California to work in a refinery near Oakland. And California hit the big time news with a successful effort to recall Governor Gray Davis from his second term. My closest of kin was a native Californian who found the recal ridiculous. For one thing the newly reelected Democratic governor was perfectly honest and capable. The Republican legislator who sponsored the recall was notoriously not so. And then when the recall was successful, he backed out of the whole thing and did not run to replace Davis himself.

What followed was a political maelstrom with over a hundred contenders and a fracas that was simultaneously horror show and low comedy that would have kept Spitting Image busy with tons of papier mache had they still been around. And long story short, California got The Governator. Arnold Schwarzeneggar was elected, served a full term, and was reelected.

The next year, The Apprentice ‘reality show’ premiered with Donald Trump. I watched some of the early episodes. Trump did not take to the screen very much in the episodes I saw. The contending novices and the tasks set them took up the bulk of the show and provided the competitive tension. Trump would furnish the gravitas as the ‘decider’ at a final boardroom showdown and got to utter the immortal phrase: “you’re fired!”. Right from the start I could not see why anyone would humiliate themselves to be subjected to that man’s judgment. I would find it defiling, but then, in America the trappings of wealth, power and competence is accepted as a substitute for the real thing in so many cases. Fronting a reality show is definitely one of those cases.

That show with Donald Trump went on until 2015. Then Trump left for possibly higher things, and the show morphed into Celebrity Apprentice with guess who as the new decider:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.


24 Jul 20 - 12:28 PM (#4065712)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Mr Red

Did he never say "you will be back"?


24 Jul 20 - 12:55 PM (#4065714)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic

LOL -actually it was a chuckle-


25 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM (#4065772)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: SPB-Cooperator

I wish you hadn't mentioned Spitting Image. It got me remembering the two Davids (David Owen with David Steele in his pocket) and asking myself if is they would portray Trump and Johnson as conjoined twins - then the imagery got worse when I remember what Johnson was slang for - Trump with a talking Johnson in his trousers. Surprised that Steve Bell hasn't picked up on this - I suppose the imagery would be too much even for the Guardian.


26 Jul 20 - 12:41 AM (#4065864)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Ebbie

Good story, robomatic.

You probably are aware that we're trying to recall our governor? I don't know the man personally but what convinced me is what he did to the ferries that fed our offshore islands. Deplorable. A tRump wannabe, if I ever saw one.


26 Jul 20 - 01:26 AM (#4065869)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Jos

"what Johnson was slang for"
Well, that's one I hadn't come across before. Maybe it's a US thing. I suppose Americans know what a "trump" is (aside from the card-playing meaning)?


26 Sep 20 - 09:38 PM (#4073267)
Subject: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu

This is really ominous to me --
if the US Government in its branches
(executive and judicial, here)
can go this far,
I hate to think what is next.

in response to Trump memorandum


26 Sep 20 - 10:35 PM (#4073273)
Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: Joe Offer

From Keberoxu's link:
    The U.S. Department of Justice today identified the following three jurisdictions that have permitted violence and destruction of property to persist and have refused to undertake reasonable measures to counteract criminal activities: New York City; Portland, Oregon; and Seattle, Washington. The Department of Justice is continuing to work to identify jurisdictions that meet the criteria set out in the President’s Memorandum and will periodically update the list of selected jurisdictions as required therein.

    The list was published on DOJ’s website today in response to President Trump’s memorandum of September 2, 2020, entitled “Memorandum on Reviewing Funding to State and Local Government Recipients That Are Permitting Anarchy, Violence, and Destruction in American Cities.”


Well, the election is in November. This decree won't make Trump popular in these cities.

-Joe-


27 Sep 20 - 12:11 PM (#4073331)
Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu

To me it smacks of the Soviet Union and the KGB.
Well, this country already has gulags ...


27 Sep 20 - 12:25 PM (#4073332)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I moved this "Federal Funding and jurisdictions" topic over here. We're ending up with a lot of Trump threads, and I have to agree with the UK contingent - if we're going to limit them to the number of UK politic threads they start we need to keep the Trump threads under control as well. There are plenty to go around.


30 Sep 20 - 05:22 AM (#4073689)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

I've been awfully afraid of the outcome of the upcoming presidential election. But after tonight's debate between the current pResident and Joe Biden I can only say grimly:if anyone still supports the Golden Ass they deserve him.


30 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM (#4073716)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

There was a term used in an interview recently that I can't get my hands on how via a search. The interviewee said that people have trouble predicting a different future when looking at current events. That they tend to see more of the same in the future instead of a decisive change.

This is certainly the case now - several friends who fully intend to vote for Biden have expressed sorrow that they're afraid Trump will win anyway. Simply because they're so miserable now they can't see enough people pulling it together to make a change.

I'm optimistic enough to read the current political climate as a whole bunch of people who are working hard to get out the vote, because what they most fear is another Trump term. And if they keep working, they will see positive results.

If nothing else, last night's series of "non-presidential" interruptions by Trump will spur Democrats on to go ahead and vote (if they haven't already. I mailed my ballot yesterday, figuring five weeks will be enough to reach the election administrator).


30 Sep 20 - 06:06 PM (#4073788)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

And at long last
there has been a parting of the ways
between Donald Trump and the Drudge Report
(according to the New York Times).


02 Oct 20 - 01:10 AM (#4073963)
Subject: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Elmore

The latest news on MSNBC declares that Donald J. Trump and his wife have tested positive for what he claimed was the disappearing virus. Nancy Pelosi is praying for them.


02 Oct 20 - 03:42 AM (#4073977)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Backwoodsman

Or at least it’s a way of avoiding any further televised debates? He made a complete bell-end of himself on the one the other night, perhaps he and his controllers have decided enough is enough and pulled this stunt to save face?


02 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM (#4073988)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Raggytash

I can't help but be cynical and think it's a publicity stunt, he will come back (early) and say it was no more than a cold and we shouldn't be taking precaution, wearing masks etc.


02 Oct 20 - 05:12 AM (#4073994)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG

I can certainly see that happening, Raggytash. Or if he is more affected but recovers in a week or two, claim that shows how super-fit and resilient he is. Or, if it a bit worse, seek the sympathy vote. Really, there are a lot of ways to play it if he is not actually hospitalized.


02 Oct 20 - 06:57 AM (#4074004)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Senoufou

There are so many ways in which this announcement could get a bit more support for Trump that I very much doubt its veracity.
But if it's true, to wish that it would carry him off isn't morally defensible.


02 Oct 20 - 07:00 AM (#4074006)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG

I was reading that there is much uncertainty about what would happen to all the mail-in votes that have already been cast which have his name on them if Trump died or withdrew. In the accounts I have read, it is not clear if any votes cast for him would automatically transfer to another nominee. Even the votes cast for Biden could be in some doubt, since saying you prefer Biden to Trump does not inherently say you prefer Biden to A. N. Other.

On the UK side of the ocean this passes almost in a single comment, but presumably it is exercising people on the US side more. I'd be interested in hearing comments on it.


02 Oct 20 - 07:08 AM (#4074009)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

At this moment I can't of anything that would be more beneficial to mankind than for this would-be dictator to exit this mortal realm, perhaps we could get those children on the southern border reunited with their families. Unfortunately the statistics indicate he's liable to weather this even though he's elderly, fat, eats garbage and doesn't exercise beyond playing golf out of a cart.


02 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM (#4074011)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

Also with his passing and the election of a new administration we're sure to get a serious response to the virus which will save untold numbers of lives.
If he does pull through expect a whole new raft of lies and misinformation from the White House about the virus that will lead to even more death and illness.


02 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM (#4074015)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

This has also caused the cancellation of this weekend's planned super-spreader events in Wisconsin, without masks and social distancing, which will no doubt save lives up there as there will be no additional trump cultists spreading the virus among their fellow citizens.


02 Oct 20 - 08:17 AM (#4074020)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

I think that Twitler going viral may just ensure he doesn't win. But will he leave?

Hey - give him some of his bleach, that'll solve the problemo.


02 Oct 20 - 08:27 AM (#4074022)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Incidentally Spitting Image is back to tomorrow, though only on the streaming service Britbox. The trailer on YouTube and the releases of pictures of the new puppets look very promising and pretty savage.


02 Oct 20 - 08:50 AM (#4074025)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri

There has been talk (on NPR this AM) of what will happen with the election. He's on the ballot. If Pence has to be sworn in, will votes for Trump automatically go to Pence?
I think it might be believed that he and Melania got it from Hope Hicks, but it's speculation, and more is coming out about this as time goes on.


02 Oct 20 - 09:02 AM (#4074026)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

Who knows if Hicks infected them but the WH knew of her infection in advance of his fund-raising trip to New Jersey.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-10-02-20-intl/h_da0bc1f63ac9a7ab1e5ea0a4135723b7

Maybe trump's illness will inspire a number of his numbnutz followers to take CDC guidelines seriously at long last.


02 Oct 20 - 09:45 AM (#4074031)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri

At the least it's a wake-up.
People politicized mask wearing.
Can't politicize Covid-19.


02 Oct 20 - 10:09 AM (#4074034)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: punkfolkrocker

Unfortunately, this as close to evil as humanly possible man
can afford the finest emergency health care on this planet;
to help him claim how super human Übermensch fit he is
to shrug off this minor inconvenience harmless virus...

Would it be more beneficial for humanity
if covid kills trump,
or permanently reduces him to a feeble dribbling invalid old man...???


02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM (#4074035)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri

He's gone from having a positive test to having "mild Covid symptoms" in only the past few hours, so I think it's too early to know what will happen.

...not that he or his toadies will tell anybody if he DOES get really sick.


02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM (#4074036)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

I don't want him to suffer, I just want him gone.


02 Oct 20 - 10:33 AM (#4074041)
Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor

Ironically, his surrogates, including his idiot son, Don Jr., have been spreading unfounded rumors about Joe Biden's health.


02 Oct 20 - 10:47 AM (#4074047)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I saw the thread title and said to meself: "That's interesting!" totally forgetting who the OP....

But I've got another Trump story. A 45 year old Trump story.

I took Russian language in high school. Really loved it because aside from the wonderful flow of the phonemes and the fact that the Russian teacher was the best teacher in school, a massive presence who could entertain and terrify at the same time, we had a huge supply of a magazine called "Soviet Life". These magazines were the result of an agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. which encouraged mutual understanding. They published a magazine for Americans in English with stories of life in the Soviet Union. We published a magazine for Russians in Russian with stories about our side of the world. Their magazine was very print heavy with large low definition black and white photos I even remember fingerprints from the dark room visible on a page sized print. Our magazines were a little thinner with glossy color prints. Their magazine piled up mostly unread in our libraries and as it happens in my Russian language schoolroom. I found out that our magazine was gobbled up within minutes of going on sale because I happened by such an event in the USSR one day.

Anyhow, while confined in classroom with little to do I opened one of the Soviet mags and saw a question and answer section about life in Soviet Russia. Someone had asked the question: "What do Soviets think about political jokes?" The answer in the magazine was pretentious and serious, all about having a proper regard for the seriousness of public office and considerations as to proper sense of levity balanced against the need to appreciate humor. But even young ignorant teenager that I was I already knew the correct answer to the question:

"Political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected!"


02 Oct 20 - 11:57 AM (#4074058)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I moved some of the "Orange clown" posts here and closed the other thread. Seriously, we already have too many Trump threads going, and just as we're trying to restrict the number of UK political threads, it isn't necessary to start a new thread any time some new Trump event or insult happens.

That said, if someone starts a thread where there is a sober discussion of constitutional questions during this time, with good links to responsible journalism, that would be welcome. The closed one was mostly a gloating thread and the content can join the rest of the Trump chatter in this tread.



That thread has been started.


02 Oct 20 - 01:17 PM (#4074073)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble

The President is certainly a candidate for "Super-Spreader of the Year."

The worst quip I've seen this morning was with regard to Biden's prospects for victory in November: "There is always hope!"

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar (previously known as Charley Noble)


03 Oct 20 - 04:54 AM (#4074114)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

One way and another I suspect this could save thousands of lives. It could mean the end of the crazy situation where it appears that millions of Trump's true believers see wearing a mask or social distancing as treachery. It's been estimated that if all Americans started to behave rationally in those matters it would cut the predicted death rate over the next few months by a significant amount.

I was watching a White House correspondent on the BBC commenting on the way that the White House atmosphere had totally changed, and instead of no-one wearing masks (the President didn't like them to) they all were.


03 Oct 20 - 05:01 AM (#4074115)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs

I wish trump and his wife a speedy recovery - then the mocking can restart!!!!!!!! Is he wearing his jacket in hospital I wonder!!!


03 Oct 20 - 09:41 AM (#4074148)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

The gathering in the Rose Garden last week looks like it was a super-spreader event with little social distancing, a lot of glad handing and about 50 mask wearers among about 180 attendees. WTF is wrong with these people, they're suppose to be leading us out of this pandemic.
Essence.com

Fortunately trump was waylaid by the virus before he could hold his event in Green Bay today where public health officials are reporting that their hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID cases.


03 Oct 20 - 10:34 AM (#4074155)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble

The Rose Garden event has led to 6 confirmed cases, including Mr. Trump. The Supreme Court nominee and her husband have already recovered from the coronavirus infection so they are not a factor.

The Debate in Cleveland has led to 11 confirmed cases among out of state staff informed in planning and set-up.


03 Oct 20 - 01:36 PM (#4074179)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Jos, do tell.

I have heard of the last trump and of coming up trumps and of bridge-whist-spades-type trumps, what am I missing?

And I thought Johnson was British, I coulda sworn it came from that Monty Python skit, with John Thomas and one-eyed trouser snake. Which I shall now go find.


03 Oct 20 - 03:07 PM (#4074185)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

They are a factor if you can catch COVID-19 again. It hasn't been proven that there is long-term immunity after recovery.


03 Oct 20 - 03:30 PM (#4074190)
Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: The Sandman

well they are all puppets
The Man in the Mask

Notes: words and music by Malvina Reynolds; copyright 1971 Schroder Music Company, renewed 1999. A portrait of Richard Nixon, and Richard Nixons in general.


Come sit down beside me before the big T.V.
And watch the funny pictures they have there to look at,
Shampoo for your hair and the last polar bear,
And the man on the moon who was walking around
Then left, leaving junk on the once virgin ground.

There's old timey movies with old fashioned dresses,
The kidnap of babies and other such messes,
There's football and baseball and guys selling cars,
And then there's The Man in the Mask.

Chorus:
They say it's his face, but I just can't believe it.
It looks like a mask that I saw in the store.
It talks with deep feeling about ending some war
And stopping inflation, and it's so fantastic,
You'll cry while you're laughing, and roll on the floor.

Every four years he puts a new mask on.
Each one is worse than the one he had before,
But the words are the same and the same earnest manner,
About ending inflation and stopping the war.

The sponsors paid out a million of millions
To get him up there with his magic routine,
But it's really a bargain, 'cause there's such a margin
In war and inflation and the big T.V. screen
That gives us The Man in the Mask.


03 Oct 20 - 04:44 PM (#4074193)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

For Mrrzy

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/trump-fart.1529620/


03 Oct 20 - 05:50 PM (#4074197)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

‘Trump’ is in very common usage in the UK as a slang term for the act of breaking wind. In my own family it has always been regarded as a somewhat polite term, suitable for children - whereas ‘fart’ is regarded as vulgar.

Donald Trump has thus always been regarded as a figure of ridicule by many British people because of his extremely unfortunate surname.


03 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM (#4074201)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

And his grandfather chose it for them. :)


03 Oct 20 - 07:11 PM (#4074215)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Anybody who went to that super spreader meeting to launch Amy Barrett's nomination without wearing a mask, including Amy Barrett, is clearly so stupid that it would be totally irresponsible to put them on the SupremeCourt, regardless of any other issues.

The same obviously goes for the President, but that's a matter of a much wider electorate. The Senator's have a much more direct responsibility as individuals. Ordinary voters can always be pretty sure their single vote won't make a crucial difference. The Senators don't have that let out.


04 Oct 20 - 06:34 AM (#4074261)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I saw a video yesterday on CNN that showed Barret sitting in the White House with her children in close proximty to Melania just before the Rose Garden event and all were maskless.
As for Dr. Conley it seems that everyone in trump's orbit has only a passing acquaintance with the truth.


04 Oct 20 - 09:20 AM (#4074271)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Risking the lives of her children in that way was a breathtaking level of irresponsibility.


04 Oct 20 - 10:22 AM (#4074275)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It seems that with three GOP senators out ill with COVID19 they don't have enough votes for the senate confirmation. Dog works in mysterious ways indeed!


04 Oct 20 - 10:23 AM (#4074276)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

If Barret has a confirmation hearing, and I sincerely hope that the religious zealot does not, let's hope that disgraceful little tableau comes up along with her maskless presence at the WH super-spreader event.
A new NBC/WSJ poll has Biden up by 14 points, trump is going to have to go a ways to steal this election but don't think he won't.


04 Oct 20 - 10:37 AM (#4074278)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump is continuing the negative ads against Biden, despite Biden pulling his negative ads while the pResident is in the hospital. Trump wouldn't understand Grace if it bit him in the ass (which, of course, Grace would never do).


04 Oct 20 - 01:26 PM (#4074299)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Jos, thank you so much.


04 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM (#4074324)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump just hopped in a SUV and the presidential motorcade drove around Washington, D.C. A man with COVID-19 just sat in a closed vehicle with supposedly non-COVID-19 staff so he could go wave at supporters.

Seriously. He put all of those people in harms way so he could go wave at his fan base.

Unbelievable.


04 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM (#4074326)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

I'll be really pissed off if covid kills me but fails to eliminate trump...


04 Oct 20 - 07:24 PM (#4074341)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Here's what Dr. James Phillips tweeted about trump's joy ride today:

"Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential “drive-by” just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity."

Daily Kos

By now it should be obvious to even the dullest among us that trump doesn't care about anyone but himself. When I consider the chaos he's going to send this country into as the election nears and his poll numbers continue to flag I gotta say I'm pulling for the virus.


06 Oct 20 - 03:55 AM (#4074459)
Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: gillymor

It seems there's nothing this bozo can't turn into a publicity stunt. I suppose it's a lot easier than actually doing your job.


06 Oct 20 - 04:19 AM (#4074461)
Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman

He’s totally insane.


07 Oct 20 - 10:18 AM (#4074615)
Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Bonzo3legs

Apparently trump refused to allow an engineer on to his boat in 1983 because he was black - how appalling.


07 Oct 20 - 10:55 AM (#4074624)
Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman

Almost as appalling as the suggestion that defenceless, destitute families fleeing torture, rape, murder in their own countries, and begging the UK for asylum should be sent to Ascension Island, or incarcerated on disused oil rigs.


08 Oct 20 - 01:31 AM (#4074706)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Today it was 'discovered' that instead of the 16 or 18 that had been revealed as having tested positive, there are at least 34! Most of them trace to the (outdoor!) event when Coney Bartlett was introduced. She herself is reported to have had the virus in July and recovered but it is not yet known whether a recovered person may still shed virus cells.


08 Oct 20 - 09:48 AM (#4074743)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Ebbie, where did you see that?

I'm thinking the press can work their way through the known individuals at that Sept. 26 event.

This Washington Post article gives you a good look at each attendee. It was updated yesterday.

Here is a New York Timeslook at attendees.

I think the one and only presidential "debate" is all they're going to do. No one in their right mind would want to get near any of the White House crowd who work on Trump events (regardless of the Hatch Act - another issue that seems to be largely ignored by the GOP and White House employees).

There is so very much wrong with how Trump conducts himself and minds the main chance in this office.


09 Oct 20 - 03:06 AM (#4074815)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

“It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques — techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life,”

senator Margaret Chase Smith June 1, 1950


09 Oct 20 - 05:11 AM (#4074824)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/34-people-connected-white-house-previously-infected-coronavirus/story?id=73487381

Sorry, Stilly River Sage, I've forgotten how to make a link.
    Fixed. Joe


09 Oct 20 - 01:29 PM (#4074867)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

There is a UK TV programme called Frankie Boyle's New World Order, which is essentially a comic programme but of late they have discussed quite a few quite serious topics in amongst it. This week Armando Iannucci was reflecting on a fear he had that if Trump loses, through Trump TV or whatever, states that voted Republican could continue to follow him with bare compliance to federal rulings, and he could remain a major influence on the US through his dedicated followers, who would easily accept the story of a stolen election. This could be a major running sore in the US for years to come.

I have to say it sounded quite plausible to me.


09 Oct 20 - 05:16 PM (#4074888)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

" (White Nationalists) Stand ready" is a Trump quote. The effect was speeding up the arrest of white nationlists who were going to kidnap and kill the Democratic Govenor of Michigan and law enforcement. In the FBI arresting killers any time to the left of - BOOM - is better than waiting too long. It is hard work being a spy inside hate groups. The othr informers come from the hate groups themselves such as guy who hate the government but ar against killing cops. In a way democracy unravels plots from the inside.

The Trump quote of calling 50,000 armed citizens to watch the polls will have the effect of post election disruption regarding mail in ballots.

If you watch carefully Trump is trying to emulate everything Putin has done from arresting political opponents to election manipulation.


09 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM (#4074893)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump will be so mired in legal troubles that he won't have time to direct his misbegotten army. It's clear that the numbers are coming out, his income sources are drying up, his partners in crime are being charged and jailed and Barr is out of dirty tricks.

But this last four months of his "presidency" aren't going to be pretty and it's going to be painful for all. Picking up the pieces is going to take a lot of work come January 20.


09 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM (#4074894)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

"Stand back ... stand by" is what he said, as I recall. Same implication - but with just the slightest hint of ambiguity which trump, despite his seeming inability to control language, always seems just cunning enough bring to his most dangerous pronouncements.

Btw - nobody seems to be paying much attention to the fact that Pence, like his master, would not commit to a peaceful transition of power. These fascists clearly welcome murder and mayhem - it's not just the madman trump ....


09 Oct 20 - 11:30 PM (#4074927)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

That seemed telling to me too, meself. Frankly, Pence surprised me in a number of ways. I already knew I don't like his positions but I took him at his word that he in an honorable man- and he is NOT. I was surprised at his ease in lying without so much as a twitch of an (inflamed) eyelid. He is a lot quieter than the current pResident, almost soporifically so, but obviously he is in the camp he wants to be in.


10 Oct 20 - 07:22 AM (#4074959)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump and friends want a Covid relief check to go out to everyone 2 weeks before the election. This will put the Post Office in a real bind with ballotts combined with Checks. This is in McConnel's court now if Pelosi can reach a deal.
btw Trump's name is on the stimulus checks.

As for the terrorist American Taliban white nationalists vs. the Army, Navy, Air Force, Space Force and Marines - many of the terrorists are retired Marines. The FBI leads the investigations but local sheriffs call kidnapping govenors "arresting" govenors.

Now a prayer: Lord please let Trump become an example of how not to rest and heal. He could still accidentally save some lives by bad example.


10 Oct 20 - 11:35 AM (#4075003)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

In our heart of hearts I think many people wish Trump could experience some of the misery he has visited upon so many.


10 Oct 20 - 01:28 PM (#4075027)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I suppose we can expect something akin to the Comey letter when election day nears, the donald does like to replay his greatest hits over and over. It will be interesting to see the amount of social distancing and masks worn at today's potential super-spreader event at the White House.


13 Oct 20 - 08:39 AM (#4075368)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar

The Last Trump

Andrew Barton ‘Banjo’ Paterson

‘YOU led the trump,’ the old man said
With fury in his eye,
‘And yet you hope my girl to wed!
Young man! your hopes of love are fled,
’Twere better she should die!

‘My sweet young daughter sitting there,
So innocent and plump!
You don’t suppose that she would care
To wed an outlawed man who’d dare
To lead the thirteenth trump!

‘If you had drawn their leading spade
It meant a certain win!
But no! By Pembroke’s mighty shade
The thirteenth trump you went and played
And let their diamonds in!

‘My girl! Return at my command
His presents in a lump!
Return his ring! For understand
No man is fit to hold your hand
Who leads a thirteenth trump!

‘But hold! Give every man his due
And every dog his day.
Speak up and say what made you do
This dreadful thing—that is, if you
Have anything to say!’

He spoke. ‘I meant at first,’ said he,
'To give their spades a bump,
Or lead the hearts, but then you see
I thought against us there might be,
Perhaps, a fourteenth trump!’

They buried him at dawn of day
Beside a ruined stump:
And there he sleeps the hours away
And waits for Gabriel to play
The last—the fourteenth—trump.


13 Oct 20 - 08:51 AM (#4075372)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Our boneheaded Florida governor and trump sycophant, Pete Desantis, was filmed yesterday at trump's rally in Sanford (where Trayvon Martin was murdered) high fiving mostly maskless attendees and then wiping his nose with the same hand. This sort of recklessness and stupidity from a public official as COVID19 numbers are rising in more than 30 states is mindboggling.


13 Oct 20 - 09:09 AM (#4075374)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

That's Ron DeSantis and here's the story:

msn.com


13 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM (#4075375)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

And just like that it's a music thread. Nice one, Hrothgar.


13 Oct 20 - 10:58 AM (#4075394)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump's first choice for VP was Ivanka not Pense.
Things could always be worse.


14 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM (#4075478)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

Well, Homer Simpson was seen sporting a badge that said "Ivanka 2028".

All done as a humongous joke but as Shakespeare wrote Jesters do oft prove prophets

And "worse" could be if Trump refuses to accept defeat. You have civil war, and civil it won't be!


14 Oct 20 - 10:48 AM (#4075499)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It's more and more clear that he might not ever say the words but everyone will know he was defeated, and he'll be ushered out of the White House when the time comes. I suspect there will have to be some legislative move to take him out of the White House before January 20 when he completely blows a gasket. Trump will prove to be the most repulsive "lame duck" the nation has ever seen.


14 Oct 20 - 12:57 PM (#4075509)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

He and his gang will have almost three months put legal strategies into effect - and with a partisan Supreme Court, who knows what will happen .......?


15 Oct 20 - 02:42 AM (#4075539)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Words almost fail me, but there is an even more 'out there' story courtesy of the New York Times and coming from a quite literal Trump worshiper: It can only go under the name of- Trump Apotheosis


15 Oct 20 - 03:20 AM (#4075544)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Clearly he was as insane as the Fart he worshipped.


15 Oct 20 - 07:07 PM (#4075620)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I have the PBS News Hour on and was just watching a clip of a Trump speech from this afternoon. He keeps holding his hand up in the "ok" symbol, but that has been identified as now firmly a dogwhistle for the white supremist appropriation.

The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate. This story is from a year ago, so it isn't like it just popped up now.


16 Oct 20 - 02:58 AM (#4075645)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

I detest it when signs and language are taken over to represent extremism. I resent any suggestion that if I use the OK hand sign that I might be associated in any way with white supremacism. It is my language just as much as it is the lowlife's.


16 Oct 20 - 11:55 AM (#4075670)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Agreed on that.

I didn't watch either event last night. I've already voted, I don't need to make up my mind (and there was never any consideration of Trump ever).

The trouble with people speculating about what he might or might not do is that these folks give him ideas. I wish everyone would shut up and just hunker down till this is completely finished.

I think Biden is going to have to add two more justices to the Supreme court after McConnell is out of power. And Biden is going to have to codify in law a number of things that the Supreme Court decreed that are slowly being chipped away - the most conspicuous are marriage equality and the right to abortion. Once they're laws, the Supreme Court is out of that (for a while, anyway). And they'll need to do it within the first two years if the Democrats sweep the house, senate, and presidency. The "blue dog" Democrats threw a spanner in the works when Obama was first elected, those individuals elected in Republican areas who are determined to hold onto their jobs by going against everything the party is working on the keep their bases happy. Someone will need to take them aside and explain the concept of "greater good."

Did anyone listen to the Barrett hearings when Senator Whitehouse illustrated, very carefully, how the Federalist Society has been supported by a few huge donors and how they move people around but still end up with the same results - that 80 out of 80 decisions that these donors wanted were agreed to, 5-4, by the Supreme Court? I'll have to see if his half-hour was recorded somewhere and post a link. It was a real education.


16 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM (#4075703)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

I don't know why Biden and Harris don't just say, "Nothing's off the table" or something equally pithy when they're asked about expanding the Supreme Court - their waffling on the question looks ridiculous.


17 Oct 20 - 12:46 AM (#4075717)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Their not answering one question looks ridiculous? What are you doing, applying traditional standards to presidential candidates? Trump waffles dozens of times a day and people don't seem to hold it against him.

Dog help us.


17 Oct 20 - 01:19 AM (#4075719)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

You said it: they don't hold it against trump. But they do hold it against Biden.


17 Oct 20 - 05:45 AM (#4075732)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

I doubt if even many Trumpophiles actually believe a word he says. They just don't think it matters.

Mind, he can speak the truth - I've just been seeing him proclaim to a cheering crowd of the faithful "We are all headed round the curve" - which take it is the same as declaring that he and his supporters are giingriund the bed, which is clearly the case..


17 Oct 20 - 08:14 AM (#4075747)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

A recent trump waffle would be his petty denial of federal aid to California for those disastrous wildfires. It's a state he has no chance of winning and often uses as a liberal punching bag so therefore he's not interested in the human suffering taking place. No doubt the California GOP congressional delegation howled like banshees, this coming so close to the election, and he relented. Wether it's a flip flop or a waffle it's just another indication of his complete lack of humanity.
I'll take Biden and his "waffles" or "Any Other Reasonable Adult", for that matter, over this odious creature any day.


19 Oct 20 - 08:04 AM (#4075944)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Sorry about the rather strange typo in my last post - for "giingriund the bed" read "going round the bend". Maybe my ipad has picked up a trumpian virus...
.......


Truth - this mudelf corrected several typos and spacing issues, but couldn't make head nor tail of that last collection of letters. ;-)


20 Oct 20 - 08:17 PM (#4076224)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

The OK sign also means Asshole in ASL...


20 Oct 20 - 10:52 PM (#4076236)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Apparently Trump stormed out of an interview with Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes. I'm sure that program on Sunday evening will show him leave in all of his petulance.


21 Oct 20 - 04:14 AM (#4076247)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

I wish that the number of Justices were changed by the new administration to 13. There is nothing sacrosanct about the number in the court- the first number was three. If there were thirteen and Biden filled the four vacancies, a 7 to 6 split would reflect very well where this country is historically, morally and politically.


21 Oct 20 - 09:32 AM (#4076275)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

Trump and his Republican sychophants seem intent on dismantling everything that makes the USA the USA. I don't know why anyone would vote for him, or ANY of them.
...of course, I came from a generation where the kids on the playground who were the bad guys were Nazis.


21 Oct 20 - 09:27 PM (#4076381)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ebbie, in the Islamic religion the number 9 is sancrosanct. Count the number spires on the Taj Mahal. Its a more important # than 72.

Stand bake, stand bready.


21 Oct 20 - 10:02 PM (#4076383)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

In the coming weeks, the election obstruction and results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last four years, much of what I hold dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. The country is at a crossroads. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance – and with it, the future of abortion and voting rights, healthcare, climate policy and much more. Science is in a battle with conjecture and gut instinct to determine policy in the middle of a pandemic. At the same time, the US is reckoning with centuries of racial injustice – as the White House stokes division along racial lines, violence, institutional corruption and lies.

Villains have a way of coalesing the 'good' and bringing us to the brink of hitting a reset button for our future and our legacy.
Do what makes you proud and be kind. This is coming from someone who has never been on Facebook or Twitter and is possibly a smart thing for you to do for Democracy. That kind of social media we can live without.


21 Oct 20 - 11:20 PM (#4076390)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I am seeing more Biden signs in my neighborhood than Trump signs, and I live in what is considered a GOP stronghold. I hope they're so ashamed of their party and Trump that they aren't promoting the bastard (even if they vote for him on Nov. 3). Or they quietly vote for Biden.


22 Oct 20 - 02:36 AM (#4076412)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Stilly River Sage, I am glad to hear that. Since I am almost entirely home-bound(in self-isolation) I don't get to see campaign signs. I hope it's a good omen. What scares me is that if I were a secret 'admirer' of the trumpet I would be embarrassed to admit it publicly and therefore might not put up a tRump sign. God. I can hardly wait for Election Day and yet I am so scared.


22 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM (#4076421)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar

In the absence of compulsory voting (which I think is the best thing in the Australian political system), it seems that one of the major factors going for Biden will be the number of people who won't vote for him, but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump again - who will abstain.


22 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM (#4076427)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

I wouldn't want compulsory voting.
People who were only voting in order to avoid a fine might just put their cross against some candidate without thinking about or even knowing what that candidate intended to do if elected.
An interesting alternative might be a box for a choice of 'None of the above'.


22 Oct 20 - 07:21 AM (#4076428)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Donuel - not just define your country, but define the world.


22 Oct 20 - 07:27 AM (#4076430)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

It might be more effective and more popular to combine elections with a free lottery.

The none of the above option opens the question, what do you do when that option gets the most votes. Rerun the election, and you still get the same result...


22 Oct 20 - 09:46 AM (#4076441)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Voting is a duty.


22 Oct 20 - 10:44 AM (#4076447)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

I just read on youtube a comment from an anti-trumper who identifies as a "Christian", and who claims that "most Christians" (I know, I know) support trump because they see that as the way to hasten the "End Times" .... The poster was not being facetious, but explanatory.

It leaves me at a loss for words.


22 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM (#4076473)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Random people were asked "How is Trump actimg?"
man: "He's acting like a crack head."
woman: He's acting cheesy and whines alot"
cowboy: "He'a acting like Yosemite Sam."


22 Oct 20 - 06:18 PM (#4076485)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Who is enough of a glutton for punishment to watch the "debate" tonight? I'm thinking I'll stream some Netflix. I already voted, and the recapped details will be in the ether for a while afterwards.


22 Oct 20 - 07:37 PM (#4076492)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

The only reason to watch is so you'll know what everyone is yapping about for the next couple of days - for the public water-cooler talk, as it were. Or if you've been following the whole rigmarole the way you might a ridiculous sit-com, well, this is just the latest episode.


22 Oct 20 - 10:11 PM (#4076501)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

The debate, which I have been watching, has preempted my Star Trek show.

Got my first debate Bingo at 9:30 Mudtcat time. But I kinda cheated, like one square was Schools or Guns.

And "18 angry democrats" is a great name for a rock band. Thank you, Dave Barry, for that concept.


23 Oct 20 - 07:36 AM (#4076523)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'm a big Dave Barry fan.

Trump: WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

Biden: Now you know.


25 Oct 20 - 09:52 AM (#4076755)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Vote for Dull & Dreary , down with Dumb & Destructive.


25 Oct 20 - 02:05 PM (#4076779)
Subject: BS: TRUMP WINS 2020 ELECTION
From: Donuel

YOU KNOW HE'S GONNA SAY HE DID even if he doesn't.
Can the Supream Court once again 'prove' it?
Unfortunately covid wins 2020.
Trump might win 200 electoral votes imo.


25 Oct 20 - 04:16 PM (#4076803)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump's action, to blow past the COVID precautions at the White House, is apparently totally followed by Pence's office, where five people have come down with the infection. If someone hadn't leaked the news, they wouldn't have said anything about it.


25 Oct 20 - 05:19 PM (#4076824)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Today, whilst I was driving back to the mental health clinic
(having gone to cast my vote in person),
I heard on the radio that Mister President
would be speaking at the airport rally
in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Whereupon

I resolved not to listen to the news again for the rest of my drive,
and focused on music station broadcasts instead.
Anyway, yes, I voted.
And my spiral notebook has on it
the little red white and blue sticker
that was given to everybody at Town Hall after voting.


26 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM (#4076955)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump is a working class NERO !

he only worked to con.

soon he'll be a zero

once he is good and gone.


27 Oct 20 - 02:33 PM (#4077023)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

https://brokeassstuart.com/2020/10/27/what-to-do-if-trump-refuses-to-concede/

Political sock puppets


30 Oct 20 - 07:52 AM (#4077427)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "Last Week Tonight" can't do the entire job by itself!


30 Oct 20 - 01:35 PM (#4077475)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I can not see Trump ever going to the grocery store.
I can see Biden going to the ol General store and buying some calico for his wife, 50 lbs of flour and a warm Sarsaparilla drink.
Maybe a copy of Malarchy Monthly.


30 Oct 20 - 04:37 PM (#4077497)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

This is the kind of thing that matters. While tweets and shenanigans take our eyes off the ball, we elect folks who get to appoint many many judges and justices and weaken our non-partisan civil service.


30 Oct 20 - 04:59 PM (#4077505)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "

New series of Spitting Image is on BritBox.


30 Oct 20 - 08:08 PM (#4077527)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It feels like we are in the days of Deathly Hollows part 2.


31 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM (#4077584)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The former GOP is now the PWG PARTY of WHITE GRIEVENCE and faces a referendum. With Selecting Barbie Coney Barret for the SUPREME COURT the court is now 100% Catholic. I'm for diversity and am not anti catholic although I am anti cult.

I don't know if she is Mel Gibson's dad catholic or not. Signs point to extreme cultism as a member of People of Praise. Does she think the Spaniish Inquision had good people on both sides? I don't know. She wouldn't say. I get the feeling she is a classicly trained liar.

A solution is expanding a reformed court. Court packing sounds bad like Fudge packing.


02 Nov 20 - 09:56 AM (#4077876)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

If you are an ass hole who likes to out shout, show weapons, insult and disrespect others - there is MORE for you to do with Traffic.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/01/trump-caravans-snarl-traffic-on-garden-state-pkwy-mario-cuomo-bridge/

To be fair and balanced the left also fucks with traffic
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35854279

The FBI is investigating how trump pick up truck caravans tried to run the Biden Harris bus off the highway.


02 Nov 20 - 04:59 PM (#4077923)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Um Kagan and Breyer are jewish...


04 Nov 20 - 09:26 AM (#4078201)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Let the Don'l overflow of quickly written misinformative utterances proceed. When we learn to deal with it, we learn to deal with Trump.


04 Nov 20 - 06:16 PM (#4078251)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

robomatic I am glad you still support freedom of speech and independant judgement of my supplied links. I pay close attention to your aeronautical posts, you are practically an amateur expert. I would like your opinions on canards but you seem hostile toward me again in an amusing way. You are sounding much the same as you did 20 years ago, but with a name like robomatic I expect repetition. Robo its time you present evidence for your claims if you want to regress back to your old flame war stance. Who knows, I might believe you. :^?

I assume Trump is still tweeting too.


04 Nov 20 - 07:03 PM (#4078252)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

DonTrumpuel!

You are the replacement for the Chump. You post maybe truths and maybe falses and you take back nothing. It's a guessing game with you like the clock that doesn't run.

I am not hostile to you nor the other trump. I merely point out that your posts are haphazard as to truth and relevance.


05 Nov 20 - 08:35 AM (#4078321)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It is debatable if Donald J Trump will EVER deliver a concession speech
but I have the exclusive copy of an initial concession speech approved by the President and written by Bannon and Miller. It was leaked to me by the White House Dry Cleaner who found this copy in a suit jacket along with a bottle of Viagra and steroids:

"Four score and seven votes short of victory shows fraud - but the only fraud is fraud itself. Nobody is a President like ME.
You are not going to have President Trump to be kicked around and fake newsed anymore because I will continue the cause to make my cause ME.      Everybody knows Biden was not born in this country and his son's emails in Ukraine will lock Joe up. -long pause- There is no Covid, only crazy doctors bribed to report fake deaths.
America, I love it, has ruthlessly attacked me and my family. January second is a date which will iive in infamy. This coup you must stand ready to fight in the bars, the churches the suburbs and the fields.
You know who to obey! Thank you."


05 Nov 20 - 09:04 AM (#4078324)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

page 2- one liners

Make America Great Again, If you are white you're right, If its too close to call its fraud, Antifa did it, You know in your heart you have to Trump, We'll see, Everybody says I'm number 1, Its all fake video and audio, I'm immune and so are you, Open America, open the brothels, the bars, the churches, the schools, the hospitals, Ther were good people on one side, reach for Bleach and Oxy, STOP THE VOTE...


05 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM (#4078331)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

...but only in states where I'm ahead...


05 Nov 20 - 10:31 AM (#4078334)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

btw, The dry cleaner was also blind and Ukrainian.

Stop the vote, continue the vote, massage the vote, pee on the vote... he is all over the place in the desperate bizarre death throws of 'winning fatigue' (the new Republican term for defeat).


05 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM (#4078342)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump has no standing to in any way, shape, or form affect the states as they count their votes. And I've heard comments that the supposed lawsuits appear to have been written by a child, they don't address all of the features such as harm and remedy, that would normally be included in such documents.

Maybe he'll blow an aneurism and put us all out of our misery.


05 Nov 20 - 09:54 PM (#4078414)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I ignored the news all day and just now turned on the news. I made the right decision.

I heard that Nevada is not releasing its totality of count until they hear the media pronounce their name correctly. ('vad' to rhyme with 'vat').


05 Nov 20 - 09:59 PM (#4078418)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

nEWT gINGRICH, lEWANDOWSKI, mCcONNEL, jIM jORDEN AND hANNITY are all playing the victim card and are like lambs to the slaughter of vote stealing. They are appealing to the PEOPLE to rise up. I bet they will rise up long enough to find their remote.


06 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM (#4078472)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ted Cruz has added his voice to the fraud conspiracy. It seems all is forgiven for Trump's attack against Ted's wife and father.


07 Nov 20 - 07:49 AM (#4078584)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

No, I can't forget that evening
Or Fox News as votes were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
I always yell but in my eyes my anger grows
Yes, it grows
No, I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrows
When I had the white house then they turned it off
And now it is not fair they turned off the power
The fucking power
I can't lie, if lieing is without power
I can't grift, I can't gripe any more
Can't live, if living is without TV
I can't tweet, I can't tweet any more
Well, I can't forget that evening
Or the disgrace of losing
But I guess that's just the…


07 Nov 20 - 09:07 PM (#4078683)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Fred Trump, Donald J.'s father, described
in Mary Trump's book as a sociopath,
owed much to Elisabeth, his widowed mother,
for bringing him into business in New York
after his father's death.
Fred was a minor, and needed Elisabeth's patronage (matronage??)
to get started.

When the formidable widow Elisabeth was elderly,
and her progeny successful,
she would go around to the Trump family residential properties,
proceed to the coin-operated laundry provided for tenants there,
and empty the coin-operated machines of their coins.

Whenever I wash my dirty laundry at
a coin-operated laundromat,
I shall remember the Trump dynasty, henceforth.


07 Nov 20 - 09:45 PM (#4078686)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Robomatic, you cracked me up.


08 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM (#4078696)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

Trump has farted and thus departed, graffiti toilet wall 2020


08 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM (#4078710)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

One thing the donald and his various GOP ass-kissers hasn't explained yet, in all of his lathered ranting about voter fraud, is why the perfidious Democrats deprived him of the presidency but didn't bother to ensure a Democratic majority in the senate while they were rigging the vote.


08 Nov 20 - 06:41 AM (#4078728)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Pardon me, excuse me, pardon me, EXcuse me! PARDON ME

Trump is on the verge of pardoning HIMSELF!

It has never happened before and although this is only a prediction, pardons will be coming for his kids and cons. Who he does not pardon will be his vengeful punishment.

My prediction for Trump electoral votes was 207. It stands at 214. For Trump to successfully pardon himself is unlikely. Will he try? You betcha.


08 Nov 20 - 11:55 AM (#4078768)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

On self-pardons https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-the-presidential-self-pardon-debate

"Richard Nixon reportedly asked for an internal legal opinion about the option of a self-pardon towards the end of his presidency. The President’s lawyers said he had the power to issue a self-pardon, but Nixon declined to do so.

But just before Nixon’s resignation, the Justice Department Office of Legal Council issued its own memo on the subject, on August 5, 1974. “Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself,” said Mary C. Lawton, Acting Assistant Attorney General."


12 Nov 20 - 08:01 AM (#4079343)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh


12 Nov 20 - 08:45 AM (#4079349)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

”This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh”

Link doesn’t work - error code 401.

Replaced with working link. Yahoo images in "Melania 'distances' herself from Trump in Veterans Day photos" ---mudelf


13 Nov 20 - 04:37 PM (#4079526)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Trump is live from the Rose Garden on TV announcing the readiness of the vaccine (General distribution in April) and how it will not be shipped to New York for some reason until the New York Governor somehow approves it.

Odd that it's not the VP who is supposedly the titular head of the National response allowed to make such announcements. Furthermore, the white house website which usually airs live briefings is not airing this one.

The Trumpster sounds as addled as ever, quoting whatever figures he's cherry-picked for the 'now'.

First public speaking since the election, and still going on, so I don't know if he's going to take questions.


14 Nov 20 - 06:31 AM (#4079579)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

Has anyone heard of Trump's addiction to amphetamine - namely Adderall?
Noel Casler has plenty to say on the subject. And blames some of the antics on it. He says it stiffens the top lip and there are plenty of images that support the effect on Trump.


14 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM (#4079583)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sorry. its already a famous photo

WHERE DOES TRUMP GO FROM HERE?
He is actually planning a streaming service to continue his omnipresence. Of course it will be an existing platform like Newmax that is to the right of Fox with its sister channel AHC (All Hitler Channel 24 7)
Programing will include segments like; Trumps Hip Hop tour of Alaska, Stormy Danials Rains, Diamond and Silk, The Greatest Trump tweets, Trumps Virgin birth AND Movies like 'Gone with the Wind', Birth of a Nation, Wall St., Greed is Good, Home Alone and lots of Mel Gibson movies. The streaming service will also serve as a Presidential Book-free Library.


14 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM (#4079584)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I may even tune in to watch the show 'COD Piece' which covers the Conspiracy of the Day.


14 Nov 20 - 10:08 AM (#4079601)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mr. Red OMG that link with Noel Casler was so in depth I could not look away. The ugly truth was so odiferously horrific you can not do anything but stare for an hour.
That is one dangerous link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV9PJQUXsKM

It is like how one would believe a Private more than a General.


14 Nov 20 - 03:48 PM (#4079629)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

In the meantime, Fresh Air on Thursday had a show whose subject was the various ways that President (for the next couple months) Trump could yet impose his personality on things American and beyond:

what trump might do with his remaining weeks in office

It calls for a somewhat moderate strong stomach. Or, skip lunch first.


14 Nov 20 - 04:18 PM (#4079638)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

I'm not opening any links for which I might need a strong stomach.
It's bad enough seeing all these adverts for earwax - they really make me feel ill.


14 Nov 20 - 06:42 PM (#4079645)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself

Ah! Nice to know I'm not the only prissy one ... !


16 Nov 20 - 07:58 AM (#4079812)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

Perhaps it is an obscure reference to what America should have done to Don long ago. Ear whacks

ie box his ears


OK, OK, I'll get my coat.


17 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM (#4079942)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The FBI has reported an historic all time high in hate crimes.


18 Nov 20 - 02:51 PM (#4080130)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump is telegraphing to the Iranians and Taliban in Afghanistan that he's removing troops (even though the House, Senate, and Joint Chiefs of Staff don't want the change). Trump seems to be intent on getting more people killed.


19 Nov 20 - 09:01 AM (#4080214)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Over hear we are not hearing much about the turnip in the news. Is it because he is now just sulking with his thumb stuck in his mouth, or is it because the turnip is now a nobody who tantrums are no longer newsworthy?


19 Nov 20 - 09:07 AM (#4080217)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Silence is golden but it may only hide evil and not help stop it.


19 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM (#4080229)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

I am reminded of accidentally dripping hot wax from a red candle onto one of my twins while making a jack-o-lantern, he must have been around 3. He yelps, I say sorry, and he looks at the red drops on his forearm and asked, is that blood? I said no, dear, it's candle wax. His little face screwed up and he wailed, but why did it whack meeeeee?
Thank you for that memory.


19 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM (#4080247)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump says donors are paying for recounts - they aren't.
Re election $ goes directly to Trump (not the Republican party) for maga marches and endless rallies.
This is the age of brown shirts and political street violence, or so Trump hopes.


19 Nov 20 - 10:01 PM (#4080297)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Elmore

Madness. Trump and company have pushed me over the edge with their attempt to bully Michigan legislators into invalidating the presidential election. So, I did what any irate Democratic Socialist avowed agnostic 79 year old would; drank a half bottle of Scotch. and sent 25 bucks to Bobby Schuller for his 2021 Hour of Power calendar.


20 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM (#4080333)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

After trying to buy and or intimidate electoral college electors and state legislatures his denoument is the supreme court. ""Et tu Amy?""
The last hope is a Pentagon Coup but he only has some recently appointed loyalists there. Then its just him and his cell phone.

Out of power he still will have Trump TV and the Real American Taliban Militias.

ps I knew a Robert Mueller. He was the son of Heinrich Mueller the butcher of Cyprus.


20 Nov 20 - 08:54 AM (#4080334)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I've been to Cyprus three times but can't speak for the butchers there. But I do know an excellent butcher in Benahadux in Almería province in Andalucía...


20 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM (#4080354)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

What about the ancient carved caves of Malta?


20 Nov 20 - 12:35 PM (#4080357)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'll go there one day and let you know. It's on the bucket list.


20 Nov 20 - 05:46 PM (#4080396)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

On the serious side, Florida and some other like minded states are introducing an EXPANDED 'stand your ground law' by making it a felony to block traffic BUT a person who kills people with a gun may be considered innocent under justifiable homocide law as long as they say they were protecting business' from protesters.

Technically you face 5 to 10 years for crossing the street while a killer with an AK can murder legally.

These laws remind me of the anti Juden laws in the 30's.


21 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM (#4080447)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Just curious, at what point would a court make a distinction between the legitimacy of taking a pot shot to protect premises just because the business owner doesn't like the look of the protestor, and a protestor who is violently trying to gain entry to a premises.

Also, and more importantly, would a court apply the laws equally to a white supremacist protestor intimidating a business run by a black person.


21 Nov 20 - 03:35 PM (#4080506)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump seems to want to continue to collect money from the public so has suggested he will run for office again in 4 years. So he may try to keep that militia of right-wing gun-toting lunatics stirred up (as a big chunk of his voting base).


21 Nov 20 - 07:38 PM (#4080534)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Rittenhouse arrested for murder, the kid with an AK 47 at a protest, is out on 2 million dollars bail. I assume right wing $ is involved.
The problem with the street violence Trump wants to magnify is that Antifa is more of an illusion than a real organized movement like the Communists in Hitler's Germany.


22 Nov 20 - 09:43 PM (#4080628)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D

This odd fellow Nero was surely no hero
Drunk on wine and playing his lyre
While people were dying and Rome was on fire
And then there was Trump

Things got hairy under Queen Bloody Mary
A hag with a heart made of stone
London was grim and England quite scary
Gravediggers grew callouses trying to bury
All those she killed when she took the throne
And then there was Trump

And Marie Antoinette who infamously said
Shortly before she would soon lose her head
When told that the people were lacking in bread
Wondered why they didn't enjoy a nice pastry instead
And then there was Trump

Hitler and Stalin, God you should have seen 'em
A couple of Hell's wickedest demons
Who slaughtered tens of millions between 'em
And then there was Trump

When history tots up every foul evil ruler
From the imbecilic drooler
To the dumpster fire fueler
Trying to judge which was the crueler
Well then there was Trump


22 Nov 20 - 09:47 PM (#4080629)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D

Oh, by the way Donuel there was right wing $ involved in footing Rittenhouse's bail. It was Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy and former child actor Ricky Schroder.


22 Nov 20 - 10:33 PM (#4080632)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Right now there is a 60 Minutes article about the large number of school-age kids who are 'off the grid' as in, they were in school last year, but haven't shown up in schools or on line, in the E-12 timeline. I'm not saying that our fearless leader is responsible for this. I am saying that the lack of organized response to our Covid Crisis that emanates from the top down has played a big part in a coming sub-population of non or under-educated citizens.


23 Nov 20 - 05:53 AM (#4080641)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

What;s an E-12 - sounds like a food additive.


23 Nov 20 - 06:00 AM (#4080642)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

It looks like trump is in for a very active retirement and it won't be all tee times and liasons with pornstars.

WaPo


23 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM (#4080658)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Listing all the kindred spirits in style and substance would be all well and good but it is a talent I don't have with names, especially fake names. Critics are just as helpful in the long run but are names easier to remember probably due to 'threat memory'.

It does not feel like a world of right or wrong anymore.
It feels like SANE or INSANE.

Perhaps it has always been the case but its more obvious to me now.
I have always supported helping people regain their sanity...
But where and how do we profit to help Trump to regain a sanity he has never had? Sometimes there is no cure. I only know that truth and its delivery system humor, is an effective vaccine to stem the infection of insanity.

It is my belief more insanity is learned than are born with it.
Insanity itself is a pandemic. I repeat
Insanity itself has its own pandemic today.
Socially distancing ourselves from insanity has always been done.
When the insane gather on social media, infection spreads uncontrolably.


24 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM (#4080789)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

SPB-Cooperator: E-12 is a reference to U.S. educational progress of Elementary school through 12th grade, the final year of high school.

Apparently the Current Occupant's tweets have yielded a guarded concession to the idea of transition should all the bogus moves to reverse the actual election fail, which they are doing.

It's so hard to believe that there will be no repercussions to the myriad of Republican legislators and of course FOX bloviaters who have basically lambasted the orderly progression of American institutions. There seems to be no sense of the ludicrous or even basic irony between what they have alleged of the other side and what they are performing in broad daylight right now, seeking to overturn popular votes, insisting that there is evidence without any citations of evidence. Accusing everyone but themselves of base motives.


24 Nov 20 - 06:56 PM (#4080852)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Bannon awaits his trial regarding fraud
Trump awaits charges from NYS

After that it looks like prosecution for others will be up to the voters.


25 Nov 20 - 09:02 PM (#4080969)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Flynn, former national security advisor and agent for Turkey, got a presidential pardon via tweet.


10 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM (#4082780)
Subject: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Bonzo3legs

More executions - what a shit.


10 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM (#4082787)
Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: punkfolkrocker

How long before one of his own inner team
stealthily sneaks up from behind and permanently turns his lights out...???

".. Et tu, Brute?.."...


10 Dec 20 - 02:55 PM (#4082792)
Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Jeri

I've seen enough to believe Trump and his Republican toadies want people to die, to lose their health insurance, and homes, and want the country, and every good thing we've ever stood for destroyed. I think it's treason, but nobody who CAN do anything about it has the guts to.


10 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM (#4082800)
Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen

I think the people around him are distancing themselves from him by just quietly melting away into the shadows. They don't want to associate with someone with a big L for Loser branded on his forehead.

I thought I couldn't be shocked by anything else that he could do, but approving executions in his presidential lame duck period is the lowest of the low. How low can he go after this?

And I don't know who is on his executions list but I have read that generally Black people are disproportionately represented on the list of people due to be executed.


10 Dec 20 - 05:27 PM (#4082812)
Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Donuel

Perhaps he's a paranormal potusgiest


10 Dec 20 - 06:30 PM (#4082821)
Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen

Or COTUS? (Centre of the Universe Syndrome)


11 Dec 20 - 02:04 AM (#4082855)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

PFR, I did suggest a long time ago that if the turnip wanted to find his way into the record books, it couldn't go wrong by having a stab at breaking Harrison's record.


11 Dec 20 - 08:20 AM (#4082901)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

executions since July


11 Dec 20 - 05:45 PM (#4083004)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

OK trump has 6 hours to sign a senate bill to keep the government open for one more week. He wouldn't want to close down the Supream Court would he?


11 Dec 20 - 06:03 PM (#4083007)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

From Don's link to the LA Times:

Starting in July, the Trump administration ended what had been a 17-year hiatus in the federal death penalty. The president quickly became the most executing president in a century as well as for most executions for any president in one year. As of Friday, he has overseen nine fatal injections at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Ind. All the while, of course, the White House has shown nothing but indifference to the deaths of nearly 300,000 from the COVID-19 pandemic.

Four more executions are set to take place before Biden takes office in January. Biden, not incidentally, has promised to work to end the death penalty altogether.

The latest Trump-ordered killing happened Thursday evening. Brandon Bernard’s execution was undertaken so recklessly that even lawyer Alan Dershowitz, usually a Trump defender, protested. Keeping up with newly minted prison reformer Kim Kardashian West, Dershowitz asked that Trump commute Bernard’s death sentence to life in prison without parole.

Dershowitz and Kardashian West rightly pointed out that Bernard was only 18 when he burned evidence in a failed carjacking that ended in two grisly murders. The jurors and prosecutors who convicted Bernard of murder now believe his sentence was unjust because his reasoning in 1999 was that of a minor and his participation in the actual murders is unclear.

If there’s even a hint of a doubt about a death row prisoner’s conviction, clemency should be granted. But that’s assuming a rational president with a micron of decency. Instead we have Trump.


Everything has to be taken to extremes with this sociopath.


11 Dec 20 - 06:59 PM (#4083023)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

4.1 percent of death row prisoners are proven innocent.
10 to 20% are reasonably innocent but technicalities and representation does not allow for truth to enter the process of justice.


12 Dec 20 - 12:30 PM (#4083119)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It's OVER. The Supreme Court tossed out the Texas lawsuit.

And the FDA approved the vaccine and is trying to explain that they did it the right way, not just because at the last minute Trump got impatient and threatened the FDA head with firing or having to quit if he didn't do it.


12 Dec 20 - 12:36 PM (#4083123)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Is trump going to be this petulant & litigative with the grim reaper and satan,
pathologically in denial that he died...???


12 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM (#4083134)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

pfr, now there's a story for Terry Pratchett - if he was still here with us. Just imagine what sort of crazy situations and plotlines TP would have invented.


14 Dec 20 - 06:27 PM (#4083468)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

That storyline was used during/after Joe McCarthy with a twist on a LP called the Investigator.

Trump will become a twisted bitter sore loser except to his fanatics who feel the pangs of losing all to well.

True evil does not know how evil it is.
Even Hitler was a dog lover in his way but Trump holds dogs in contempt and involks the word dog for his most hated enemies.
Even the Grinch was a dog lover if you recall.


14 Dec 20 - 07:13 PM (#4083477)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The Electoral College vote is supposedly officially in. Once again: It's Over. How many times are we gonna have to repeat it that way?

Trump and his yidiots have also 'officially' lost over 50 court cases.

This reminds me of something (almost) completely different.

In the Spring of 1945, German soldiers were fighting British and American forces on the West of Germany, and of course the Soviet Russians were coming in from the Eastern Front. One would think that the German attitude would be to surrender to the West and appeal for cessation of hostilities to avoid the worst that was about to come from the East. But a good German soldier was bound to resist to the last. So he felt obligated to fire every bit of his ammo into the Brits and Americans. Only when the bullets and grenades and shells were gone, he could honorably stand up hands up. Apparently many times to be surprised by enraged allies gunning him down.

This is sort of what the Replicants are doing: feeling that this is the last stage of a war and every avenue, from desperate to ludicrous, must be trod down.

And ludicrous it certainly is.


17 Dec 20 - 03:18 AM (#4083848)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Is this fake news or is it serious?

I would expect no more and no less of him but - seriously!!??

Scroll halfway down the page.

Trump tweaks showerhead regulation to make hair 'perfect'

The Trump administration has relaxed a regulation restricting water flow from showerheads.

It's a pet peeve of President Donald Trump, who complained that he wanted more water to make his hair "perfect".

Since 1992, federal law has dictated that showerheads shouldn't spew more than 9.5 litres of water a minute. As newer shower fixtures came out with multiple nozzles, the Obama administration updated the ruling, stating that 9.5L was still the limit regardless of how many nozzles were running.

The new ruling from the Energy Department, issued on Tuesday, now says each showerhead can emit 9.5L a minute.

"So showerheads — you take a shower, the water doesn't come out," Mr Trump said last summer.

    "You want to wash your hands? The water doesn't come out. So what do you do? You just stand there longer or you take a shower longer? Because my hair — I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect. Perfect."


17 Dec 20 - 12:38 PM (#4083882)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

It certainly echoes a Seinfeld episode that the Current Occupant may have seen.

When that person was behind a podium in the warmer weather of earlier in the year, the light passed right through his perfect coif and for a few moments we could see that when bereft of hair, he bore a striking resemblance to Ed Asner.*


*Sorry about that, Ed!


17 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM (#4083883)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

He's busy trying to throw obstacles in the way of Biden undoing his bad works. Meanwhile, there is a group of Democrats suggesting that Biden should, with the stroke of a pen, forgive $50,000 of school loan debt from Americans. The trouble is, that's not necessarily a durable or legal fix. Just because Donald did this by executive order - that should be a cautionary warning. Biden would prefer that the Congress affect that change, then it's legal and on the books the way it should be. We've had enough of this royal fiat nonsense that Trump wanted to continually deploy.


18 Dec 20 - 07:00 AM (#4083980)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Covid relief bill has poison pill additions such as making it difficult to make a new Treasury secretary from suppling more aid. Also unemployment insurance was cut 25% from 16 weeks tp 12 weeks, direct checks are cut from 1,200 to 600 dollars, 100 billion dollar tax cut for corportions and less help for those facing eviction.
Trump will not sign the Defense budget and wants more say in the relief bill.

On the funny side Mara lago neighbors have shown that Trump signed a contract saying he can not reside at Mara Lago more than 3
consecutive weeks in order to make it a private club.
He will have to go to Doral (eww bedbugs) or probably a mansion formerly owned by a cocaine kingpin.


18 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM (#4083991)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Covid relief bill carves out a bailout for 17,000 airline jobs but nothing for 3 million restaurant workers.


18 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM (#4084076)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

The DH and I have been watching Antiques Roadshow on YouTube in the evenings, and that has made me antiques-conscious.

I have sent e-mails to my senator and representative, asking them to take steps to make sure Trump and his associates don't walk out of the White House with fine antiques that belong to the people.


21 Dec 20 - 08:47 AM (#4084435)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

White House dicussions with General Flynn include ordering martial law
in Trump States seizing voting machines to be adjusted correctly and having a do over election. Carl Rove has claimed that vote counters flushed Trump votes during their bathroom breaks. Some people had as many as 4 bathroom breaks. When interviewed one man said he had a double dump.


21 Dec 20 - 09:48 AM (#4084446)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Karl Rove had the idea... back when... that with careful Gerrymandering and legal tricks, the system could be designed to create a 1000 year Reich Republicaneich.

   He failed for obvious reasons, but that wish/goal/concept still lives as a substitute for 'the will of the majority'. Combating it resembles combating new viruses.


21 Dec 20 - 02:50 PM (#4084489)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Karl Rove , for those who don't know, appeared in the movie Indiana Jones and the ark of the the covanent'
He was the guy who burned his hand.


23 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM (#4084718)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I doubt if anyone will see this but no one knows if the government is shut down or not, not even the people whose job it is to know and issue instructions.
What is known is that the Senate has left town and Donald is off to Mara Lago to possibly never return.
Before leaving he put the Covid Relief Bill into cryro sleep by saying he wants 2 grand for everyone and not just 600 dollars relief. Neither the budget or relief bill has been signed.

Many people in the White House have quit and the threat of putting all civil service workers on Schudule F which means they can be fired with no cause, have already quit.

I'm not joking.

Living on a government paycheck no longer means security.
With 28 days to go we are in a perfect storm of LIMBO.


23 Dec 20 - 01:01 PM (#4084721)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/12/23/trump-go-mar-lago-holiday-traffic-5-things-know-wednesday/3931007001/


23 Dec 20 - 02:15 PM (#4084727)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I just poked around Google Maps - Mar-a-lago is a straight shot east of the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach. And that golf club is just across the street from the Palm Beach County Main Detention Center. Maybe Trump can get day passes out to golf if they arrest him.

One reason he probably moved his official residence to Florida is because of their way-generous policy of letting people who are bankrupt keep a whole bunch of stuff.


23 Dec 20 - 08:41 PM (#4084787)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

ha ha ha ha a local neighborhood detention center

Is it really alarmist to say government shut down out loud?
Lincoln closed Congress for 6 months. Trump could do some damage
to the country with no end in sight.

D day is monday.


23 Dec 20 - 10:00 PM (#4084798)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Donald has VETOED the Defense Bill and has threatened the Omnibus relief bill with a possible veto..
Sorry Pentagon no Xmas for you

Monday is still the designated gov shutdeown day if no signiture is given.


24 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM (#4084825)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I forgot about the pocket veto which would put the relief budget bill dead after 10 days * except for Sunday. Deliberation would have to begin again at a new Congres. ???

The Defense bill veto could simply be over ridden.

January 6th Trump invited all his Nazi nuts to demonstrate in DC

I don't know how a government shut down effects these events in this limbo cliff hanger.


24 Dec 20 - 10:56 AM (#4084840)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

I wonder what kind of tantrum he'll pitch when [if?] they override the veto.


24 Dec 20 - 04:25 PM (#4084897)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Attorney General Barr is being highlighted in the news now.
He's done some despicable things this past term.
God help us if things go from bad to worse in his department.


24 Dec 20 - 06:46 PM (#4084910)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The only way Trump can hit the 270 number is to lose 50 pounds.
Its tragic and ridiculus to even have to speak of the Donald.
Being so ridiculous he makes serious political commentators sound ridiculous and comedians sound serious.


27 Dec 20 - 03:46 PM (#4085224)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

You suppose he'll try to beat his own record? He shut down the government for 30plus days once before.


27 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM (#4085235)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Congress passed a law to make sure they still get paid during a shutdown. Some government workers won't be paid.

Look at it this way, he finally will fire everybody.


28 Dec 20 - 06:18 AM (#4085289)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

After hours of irrational tweets berating Congress, Sopreme Court and others, he did sign late last night. Crises of his own making averted.


28 Dec 20 - 11:36 PM (#4085434)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Veto being overriden...


30 Dec 20 - 03:37 PM (#4085728)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

If Bill Murry had been there when President Trump was first being briefed on the global pandemic, we could have avoided a quarter million lives.

Bill Murry: "This is going to be real hell fire sir, Biblical destruction, cats and dogs living togethe...

Trump: What can I do?

Bill Murry: "Mr. President, if you lock this thing down with every possible precaution...Donnie, you could save the lives of four million registered voters..."


31 Dec 20 - 01:06 PM (#4085886)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Two days ago the newly elected R-congressman from Louisiana died of COVID-19, aged 41. Today I read that a newly elected congresswoman from Florida has tested positive and can't be sworn in on Sunday. (Here.) They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations. "Salazar, a Republican, said on Twitter she was admitted to a local hospital with heart arrhythmia, commonly known as an irregular heartbeat, on December 23, before being tested for Covid-19. That test came back positive, she said."

And today, there is this: Joe Biden to have new Secret Service team amid concern about Trump loyalty
Although staffing changes are typical, several incidents reportedly contributed to the heightened concerns from Biden’s allies that some agents and officers might be loyal to Trump.

Some members of the president’s detail reportedly urged their colleagues not to wear masks during trips, for example – despite the federal government’s official guidance on Covid-19 – as Trump himself disparaged mask-wearing and held out for months before being seen wearing one in public.

In what was described as an “unprecedented” move, the Secret Service had permitted former detail leader Anthony Ornato to temporarily leave his role and serve as White House deputy chief of staff.

Ornato was among the coordinators of the June photo op for which Trump marched through Washington DC’s Lafayette Square to stand with a Bible – after peaceful protesters were forced from the area by troops on federal order, sparking uproar in political circles as well as among the public.


31 Dec 20 - 01:31 PM (#4085891)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

SRS, that seems like a sensible move by Biden. It would be a tricky situation, trying to work out who to trust and who are the rats in the ranks.

And I have been thinking exactly the same thought about Trunp's supporters: "They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations."

On another note, this song kept popping into my head over the last couple of weeks. I finally worked out why.

He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
Trumpty-Dumpty's pardoning his friends.


01 Jan 21 - 04:23 AM (#4085981)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

It seems to me that the Orange One is edging awfully close to inciting insurrection.


01 Jan 21 - 05:16 AM (#4085986)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Oops. Typo. Trump - not Trunp, although Trunp might be a Freudian slip related to truncated, i.e. a truncated stay in the White House.

Ebbie, I just read a couple of news items hinting that Trump returned to Washington because he might be plotting to challenge the final sign-off on the electoral college votes. Not a surprise, really but its success probably depends on how many of his supporters are still steadfastly in place on his sinking ship.

I'm still hoping he gets evicted as a trespasser when his time is up in the White House. I'm also hoping it is televised.

I also keep wondering how long it will be before Hollywood immortalises this whole saga and which political direction the fiction will veer towards.

The giant Trump-baby balloon seems more and more relevant the longer this saga continues. He certainly does not appear to be behaving as a mature, responsible adult but more like a tantrum throwing spoilt brat.


01 Jan 21 - 03:53 PM (#4086057)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I agree, Helen - I hope his eviction is televised. And I hope the National Archives are able to save all of the papers and records and files that his gang are no doubt destroying as fast as they can.

I look forward to reading about what the incoming administration finds and shares about Trump, but not to the point that nothing gets done. We could use a short time to wallow in the "we knew they were up to no good" news, then move on.


04 Jan 21 - 08:51 PM (#4086529)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The news of this weekend and this Monday is redolant of the phonecall that trump made to the Georgia elections official entreating/ suggesting/ recommending that the officals either negate their state vote tallies or amend them to give Trump a majority. He wasn't fussy about what actual numbers they would develop so much as they gave him a majority of one or more.
Story here.

So it's another phone call. It is suborning illegal activity, possibly perjury, and is totally equivalent to the kind of crap he tried to pull with the President of Ukraine, and didn't get away with.

Let's see how fast we can do another impeachement trial...Just sayin'.


05 Jan 21 - 02:05 AM (#4086548)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Tonight on one of the MSNBC talking head shows a pundit with Supreme Court case experience said that the suggestion he be impeached in the next two weeks isn't illogical - it would establish the fact that he can't run for office again if he is found guilty this time. That would be worth the turmoil, otherwise he'll be a perpetual bad penny, coming back again and again any time he can gin up enough media attention with antics, attached to the threat to run for office in four years.


05 Jan 21 - 04:29 AM (#4086562)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Yes, Stilly River Sage, that was Neal Katyal; I wouldn't mind seeing him as Biden's Attorney General, except that I already have a couple of other highly qualified people in mind for that position. The Democrats have a plethora of wonderful candidates for just about every post, so different from the dregs from which the Orange One chose.


05 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM (#4086637)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Fortunatly for all of us, Trump is a coward compared to Hitler. In the same position as Trump when Adolf was made chancellor by "senators" who thought they could control a useful idiot corporal, they did not forsee another coup and murder of fellow politicals.
If Twitchy the proud boy kills at the behest of Trump's wild days (Jan6) declaration its not on Donald. I doubt if Trump could shoot a disloyal Pense in the balls on 5th ave. either. A self pardon is too iffy. :^/
Could the Godfather contract a hit on Joe? Its a quantum universe.


06 Jan 21 - 05:31 AM (#4086674)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Killing Biden (a new book title for that sleaze who was fired by Fox News?) won't alter the fact that trump's term ends on the 20th, unless they figure out a way to use the constitution for tinder.


06 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM (#4086697)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Tkank you Mr.Trump. Thank you Mr. McConnell.
With your help by Sedition and cutting Covid relief by 70%
a Black, a Jew and a Woman's deciding vote has allowed
Democrats to take over the Senate.


06 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM (#4086715)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Neal Katyal - I knew his name, just not how to spell it. I do wish MSNBC would put up the names of people on those split screens.


06 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM (#4086748)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

5,000 maskless people gathered to hear Trump outside today.

The loudest cheer came when Donald said BULLSHIT.
After an hour of bitter sore loser rants the crowd started going from foot to foot. They all had to pee. This body language was lost on Trump


06 Jan 21 - 02:31 PM (#4086761)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The President has been egging on his crowd to attack the capitol building. No yolk, they did and a few hundred got in. The Senators and Congressmen adjourned. Reporting is scrambled.


06 Jan 21 - 02:50 PM (#4086763)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

BBC radio news played a recording of a Trump supporter today describing his president, Donald Trump, as the 'Lord Jesus Christ'.
I find that scary.


06 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM (#4086765)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is no coordinated police response to the capitol attack.
The few that were there were beaten back. They must be those good people Trump talks about. There is an armed stand off inside the front door


06 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM (#4086769)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_4802bd3869eb3a4bc6512083add579df



I've seen pictures of guns drawn as a window is breached.
I have seen pictures of a protester sitting in Pense's Senate chair.


06 Jan 21 - 03:28 PM (#4086770)
Subject: RE: BS: A Changed USA Senate!
From: Jeri

So the Trumper morons have stormed the capitol. Much discussion a out what should be done. I'm fine with shooting the ones in there, and also the ones swarming the white house. At the very least, prosecute them all - every last one - as traitors. Perhaps the president, too. Impeach his ass - NOW.

(And they were bitching a bout Antifa.)
I moved this into this thread to hopefully limit having multiple threads talking about the same insurrection. -mod (JC)


06 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM (#4086771)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Now its more violent. At least one person has been shot

There is no National Guard that the mayor called for days ago.


06 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM (#4086772)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

It seems the US military could be considered an internal terrorist training cult..???

How to deradicalise their extreme right wing brainwashing
when military personnel
retire to become civilians again...?????


06 Jan 21 - 03:52 PM (#4086773)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

The military has no fucking thing to do with this. I'm ex-military, and have friends who've retired. As far as I know, we're all pretty much dedicated to the way the country is supposed to be. Oddly enough, everyone I know voted for Obama, too. The "brainwashing" also has something to do with getting people to think the military is right-wing.
The National Guard has been called in to help end it.


06 Jan 21 - 03:56 PM (#4086774)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Treason, rebellion, sedition is being well demonstrated today.

These are not patriots they are modern day nazi brown shirts acting on orders of their Feurer.

This is not a peaceful transfer of power.
In two hours it will be dark. Maybe then police can be called.
I wonder how this would look If black lives matter occuppied the capitol, broke the windows and stormed the offices.
Good people on both sides huh?


06 Jan 21 - 04:12 PM (#4086775)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Right now Joe Biden is on national TV calling it 'insurrection'.

Other than that, I recommend that folks not take to reporting their take on what is happening. A lot of what is being posted is more fear than fact.

What is being lost, and has been over the past years, is a willingness to arbitrate our disagreements by discussion and a willingness to accept the decency of our opponents.


06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM (#4086778)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: WalkaboutsVerse

The USA should be run by a Council of Native Americans & those who don't like it can repatriate to Europe, Africa, etc. The Trump family, e.g., may choose Scotland or Slovenia; & Biden has said "I'm Irish"; my WalkaboutsVerse poem on "Land Rights"


06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM (#4086779)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Jeri - just offering a sarcastic UK perspective..

We tend to see mainly [purported] US Vets
presenting armed to the teeth extremist 'patriot' right wing youtube videos...

Biden just asked sadly how the rest of the world see you...


06 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM (#4086783)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

WashPo reports someone shot, at the Capitol. Great.


06 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM (#4086793)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I am watching local news. I see the Trump mob attacking and chasing AP and other news crews away abbandoning their equipment like expensive large cameras, microphones and electronic cases yelling :enemies of the people. Some was looted but the remaining equipment was being stomped on.
robo sigh, don't be a fool. You are too smart for that.


06 Jan 21 - 05:41 PM (#4086794)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Funny I have not seen a single arrest.


06 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM (#4086795)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The GOOD news is that floor staff acted on their own and hid the official electoral ballots (in 3 beautiful wooden trunks and other boxes) before the mob broke into the Senate chamber.
They have NOT been vandalized or burned.


06 Jan 21 - 06:13 PM (#4086798)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

If none of those rioters are arrested for sedition then there is some kind of inside nonsense going on to protect them. And it was too easy for the rioters to get control of the capitol - who was in charge of security for all of this?


06 Jan 21 - 06:29 PM (#4086803)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

OK, Punky - my bad. I'm probably taking everything too seriously just now.


06 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM (#4086805)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

There were far too many idiots out there to manage mass arrests. Perhaps some were. Some folks were tear gassed and pepper-sprayed. I saw vans & buses coming & going... but the main goal was to get everything secured.
Curfew in place since 6PM.
Congress swears they will reconvene somewhere and finish their business.


06 Jan 21 - 06:46 PM (#4086808)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

This is far from over. There will undoubtedly be an investigation as to how the Capitol was breached by protestors. Someone was apparently shot by law enforcement and I have heard on the radio that they expired.

But let's not lose focus, as the current occupant and his extreme partisans (and DonTrumpuel) would have us do:

The latest Trump Action and Effect:

His tireless campaign to reelect two Georgia (Republican) Senators has resulted in the narrow but confirmed election of two Democratic Senators and a crack at a Biden Presidency with a Democratically effective Senate and House.

Yes, Virginia, there IS a Sanity Claus!


06 Jan 21 - 07:05 PM (#4086811)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

dear robo, do you have any evidence or proof that I have ever incited anyone to do anything? Your misinformation chestnut has spoiled and would be dangerous for anyone to eat.

Stilly I have avoided using the i word (inside job)
Moreso there was at least two weeks of planning by the proud boys. A small 5,000 crowd at the white house was joined from many side streets to 30,000 by the time people reached the capitol.

I do not blame the capitol police. They are trained to handle a lone gunman or small cadre. The windows and side doors of the capitol building are old and easily breached. Your average small bank has unbreakable windows.

The building is now called secure. It is not yet cleared for use but Pelosi is determined to resume tonight.











i


06 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM (#4086815)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Anyone else willing to pretend none of those maskless 'patriots' who broke into the capital were infectious? I hope they have a can of Lysol.

So far no zip tie arrests even for people carrying off government property or media equipment. hmmm


06 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM (#4086820)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

DonTrumpuel:

You are simply the anti-Trump Trump. You peddle stuff that maybesometimes is allied to reality but by no means is guaranteed. Your successive post-on-posts does not contribute to the light. And it encourages a lot of cats to follow the laser pointer instead of the point.

Along with Trump you remind us that man must not completely lose his sense of smell.

For those who want current facts there is the current news. All DonTrumpuel does is repeat some of the one, or maybe add to some of the repeated stuff, or maybe not. I take it as observational and it is not always a dead loss. But sometimes it's a waste of time.


06 Jan 21 - 08:40 PM (#4086825)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble

This was not street theatre. This was an insurrection organized and orchestrated by a sore loser and these were his supporters who identify with him as sore losers as well. This kind of violent protest cannot be tolerated in a democratic society.

It's especially hard for me to watch because I've been in much larger protests, 400,000 marching in Washington in 1969, but we never stormed the Capitol or even the White House. We shook our fists and passed on by.

The last four years have been very sad, and now we are beginning 2021 on an even sadder note.

Only Trump is beaming from ear to ear. The SOB has done it again.

Charlie Ipcar


06 Jan 21 - 08:49 PM (#4086826)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Well, we're hearing some Republican retreat. First, the President of the Senate, Mike Pence, and just now, fresh from her defeat in her Georgia re-election campaign, Kelly Loeffler, who just made a rather heartfelt speech saying that she intended this morning to object to the certification of some delegates (to the Electoral College) but is not going to do so now.

Not a sea change. Yet. But by now maybe some Republicans are sensing diminishing returns of their Trumpallegiance.

Ah, the reliable motivation that remains! Self interest!


06 Jan 21 - 10:12 PM (#4086835)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

items on our national news - US politics live update
Twitter, Instagram & facebook have limited Donald Trump's account
White House Press Secretary Sarah Matthews has resigned
The First Lady's chief of staff has resigned over the violence in the Capitol


06 Jan 21 - 10:27 PM (#4086836)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Oscar Wilde observed:

"America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without an intervening period of civilization."


06 Jan 21 - 11:06 PM (#4086837)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Oscar Wilde was funny,
so was the Princess Bride quote "Good luck storming the castle".
Much more video is now released from the chaos inside the capitol.
Some Republicans have bailed but the rest of the objectors have doubled down. I have not editorialized these events at length, if at all, but if I did in one sentence it would be that democracy is better when it comes from everyone instead of from one shameful person like Trump.

PS robo, to see history repeat itself, you have to know history.


06 Jan 21 - 11:20 PM (#4086839)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

The quote is HAVE FUN storming the castle. Philistine.

I joke, because, today.

Wow. I have been embarrassed by my government, and by my fellow Americans, before... but this is cringe-worthy.


06 Jan 21 - 11:55 PM (#4086843)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

I think I’m starting to see lizard people.


07 Jan 21 - 01:25 AM (#4086846)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Don does have a point in all of that - even as I watched the crowds rush the Capitol, I was also astonished at the number of people who still don't get it about wearing masks and maintaining their distance. Today was certainly a super spreader event. And now the house and senate are in on large room that had a bunch of non-distancing people in it earlier in the day, touching, breathing, and who knows what in there. Is the air filtration and the cleaning crew so good and swift that they were able to remove some of the excess hazard introduced into the room? Germs and guns.

Double-entendre there.


07 Jan 21 - 01:39 AM (#4086848)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

Is Trump more cunniing that he first appears?
is he doing this to show and warn that he is too big to be impeached, to show that when he leaves office he has the power to still cause mayhem if he is prosecuted?


07 Jan 21 - 05:03 AM (#4086857)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Who the hell knows what goes on in the mind of trump, he's clearly gone around the bend and deserves to be arrested for inciting rebellion as soon as it's legally possible.


07 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM (#4086858)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

He's also a goddam coward, when exhorting the mob to move on the capital he said "I'll be right there with you" before slinking back to the White House to watch the riot in comfort and saftey.


07 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM (#4086859)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"the Capitol", doh.


07 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM (#4086866)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

With all due respect Gilly we know insanity when we see it.
We know the face of hate, racism and cowardice.

This was diagnosed and predicted. Now it is witnessed by everyone.


07 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM (#4086867)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

With due respect you'd address me as gilly, trumpuel.


07 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM (#4086868)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler

If he is not arrested the USA will have lost the respect of the world for a generation.

Robin


07 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM (#4086869)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

trump may be immune from prosecution at this point but there's no reason that Rudy, Mo Brooks and trump jr. shouldn't be brought up on sedition charges.


07 Jan 21 - 08:27 AM (#4086874)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

#lockhimup


07 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM (#4086880)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

After 100 years I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Somtimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifstaions is the old might makes right barbarism.
You are the bystander. When ever you hear "whatever" it is a passive supporter. If you hear "we love trump" it is an active supporter.

Most of you are old dogs and can't learn many new tricks. I can only hope you will not allow yourself to get tricked. Thats why I begin and end with the truth. The truth in history repeating it self, the truth of who we are andin who we are and what the alttrnatives can be.


07 Jan 21 - 09:44 AM (#4086883)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I try ignore your untethered, condescending, scatter-brained horseshit but it gets difficult at times.


07 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM (#4086885)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

i do not think he will be impeached , i hope i am wrong, Trump may be corrupt but so are many others , if trump is impeached he might expose others.


07 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM (#4086886)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Something needs to be done because he can wreak a lot of havoc in the next 13 days. No one should be above the law.


07 Jan 21 - 10:40 AM (#4086896)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

American Airlines decided to stop serving booze on flights to and from dc as passengers were being belligerent about politics.

I bet nothing will happen to these particular politically belligerants.


07 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM (#4086898)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I think it was David Axlerod on CNN last night who related that Mitt Romney flies alone in coach and earlier this week was accosted on a flight back to D.C. by trumpophiles chanting "traitor".


07 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM (#4086909)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

The video of that incident is being shown on BBC-TV News today, gilly. Disgusting aggression and bullying.


07 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM (#4086913)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

"Do not call what’s happening in Washington a protest. It’s a white supremacist insurrection, a seditious attack on democracy. This riot is yet another battle in a Civil War that has never ended, one that generations of white people have waged through lynchings, murder, intimidation, oppression, odious policies, and systemic racism.
"This is what President Trump — who should be arrested for inciting violence, never mind impeached again — wanted. He’s never cared about America, and he’d rather watch this nation burn than see it led by anyone else. Of course, the blame for this riot cannot end at the Oval Office.
"May it forever stain every Republican who refused to acknowledge Joe Biden as the president-elect. Let it shroud every GOP legislator who turned Trump’s loser pity party into a pointless effort to thwart the will of 81 million voters. Speak with shame the names of the men and women who fought against democracy and tried to pervert voter engagement into voter fraud. They own this horror, each and every one of them."


-- The Boston Globe, January 7, 2021


07 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM (#4086917)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I thought I would never say, good for you Mark Zuckerberg.
(trump banned on facebook)


07 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM (#4086918)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'm glad the globe and I see eye to eye.


07 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM (#4086922)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

25th Amendment...???

Mussolini and Ceau?escu might agree that's letting trump off lightly...


07 Jan 21 - 01:14 PM (#4086923)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Today on The Takeaway (NPR) they spoke about the lack of arrests of domestic terrorists. One of the guests remarked that (paraphrasing) we need to look at police from the context of who they are there to protect compared to who they are there to control.

There's a reason why rioters were taking selfies with the local police. There's a huge problem of the affiliation of white supremacist groups in police forces around the country.

Yesterday it was VP Pence who called the National Guard, not Trump. There were several things Pence had to do because Trump wouldn't. Meanwhile, Ivanka was referring to domestic terrorists as "patriots." She'll look great in orange, especially once her roots grow out.

Trump needs to be removed from office, if only for the humiliation of the act. Impeach him, declare him incompetent and remove him. Just get his fat ass out of there.


07 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM (#4086930)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

events so far

After 4 years of trying every legal civilized remedy in the book
it looks like the Democrats are going to have to resort to the extreme

strongly worded letter.


After 100 years (I knew my grandparents story) I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial town massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Sometimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifestations is the old 'might makes right' barbarism.


07 Jan 21 - 02:59 PM (#4086938)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The last thing you need is a protracted show trial. Send him to Elba. Pool, pets, but no phone...


07 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM (#4086940)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

Yebbut he was never able so he could not say the palindrome


07 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM (#4086944)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

So you are saying there is only one answer


07 Jan 21 - 03:54 PM (#4086947)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

They can race through the impeachment process if they need to - we all know what is being discussed here. Up until yesterday the phone call to Georgia was an impeachable offence, but this one yesterday was on film and we can see the cause and effect - once he's out, the cowardly GOP members don't need to fear so much. Except their voters in their next elections.


07 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM (#4086951)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

That's Pelosi's plan. If they succeed it means he can never run for ANY office and the $ he has made for reelection will cease.
His legal exposure is to the states.


07 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM (#4086962)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

So, it seems the woman shot dead was a right wing military vet..

No surprise, then..

It's what we Brits have been lead to expect of the profile for trump militia activists...


07 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM (#4086966)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You yanks have many a conundrum. Try to impeach him and fail: he wins in 2024, no sweat. Charge him with wotever: a long-winded and extremely damaging show trial that gives succour to his followers. Do nothing: he's a lethal pain in the arse forever. God knows, but, as you're yanks, you'll decide wrong, as ever. You'd all better start praying for his ill-health. Or wonder, in hope, whether Lee Harvey Oswald really did die...

There are terrible worries for the next 13 days. But there are terrible worries for many years to come. Half of your Republicans still want to overturn a free and fair election in which the winner got there by six million votes. But Trump's 70 million are not going anywhere anytime soon. If only you'd fixed your stupid electoral college before 2016. But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing...


07 Jan 21 - 07:22 PM (#4086977)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I am purposely not going to try and remember the actual quote. It has to do with history repeating itself, (which it doesn't really do):

-History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce-

So what's occurring to me today it the storming of the Bastille versus what happened yesterday, which doesn't yet have a convenient label.

The storming of the Bastille probably had a lot of weapons drawn and led to the fall of the French monarchy.

Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad.

Trump seems to have ultimately been a pot-stirrer but a rather directionless one, in that he is dedicated to no principle, just himself. As such he has not made anyone happy, just reinforced pre-existing discontent and prejudice.

Many of the talking heads have gone on about the unprecedented nature of this 'occupation' but I think other potential 'rhymes' might be when Andrew Jackson had an inaugural party where he opened the White House to the public
and they apparently trashed it. While there are some similiarities between Andrew Jackson and President Sierra Foxtrot Bravo, I think that at least Jackson had principles and showed signs of being a man prior to his election. This is not an endorsement of Jackson, I am in favor of dropping him from the currency.

Democracy is not for sissies, and is no guarantee of eternal success. Right now I'm thinking of Paul Simon's song: "American Tune".


07 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM (#4086980)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad."

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...


07 Jan 21 - 08:16 PM (#4086984)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

American Tune

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and I've often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
But I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far away from home, so far away from home

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered
or driven to its knees
But it's all right, it's all right
For we've lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong
I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong

And I dreamed I was dying
I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly
And looking back down at me
Smiled reassuringly
And I dreamed I was flying
And high up above my eyes could clearly see
The Statue of Liberty
Sailing away to sea
And I dreamed I was flying

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sailed the moon
We come in the age's most uncertain hour
and sing an American tune
But it's all right, it's all right
You can't be forever blessed
Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day
And I'm trying to get some rest
That's all, I'm trying to get some rest


07 Jan 21 - 10:54 PM (#4086988)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

No, Steve, I don't think so. It looks like Pelosi is going to go for the jugular and they WILL take him out. It is imperative for the preservation of the government. If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story. Otherwise, with the threat that he might run again, he will have the lunatic fringe racing to be bizarre enough to catch his attention.

She's a very small woman, and she's elderly, but she's determined and a helluva lot smarter than Trump.


07 Jan 21 - 10:55 PM (#4086989)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy

Betsy DeVos is gone, yay.

Lovely tune, that.


07 Jan 21 - 11:18 PM (#4086991)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

trump's got to be so totally disgraced,
that he's left with no other option
but to beg to be allowed to move to N. Korea...


07 Jan 21 - 11:23 PM (#4086992)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I am not disagreeing with the observation that Pelosi is a lot smarter than Trump. But Trump has lowered the bar for so many items that I think we should leave him out of comparisons and look for something a bit more objective.

There is so much outflow from this period: "stable genius" "alternative facts" that we're not even sure if this period is a swan song or a new lease on life or a remember the days.

Not to mention that yesterday's vile intrusion into the U.S. Capitol is part of the intro to brand new baby 2021.

How's the Brexit thread doing?


08 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM (#4087004)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Note to those who may not be aware: if Rump is impeached and CONVICTED, he cannot run again.

For awhile today I was almost certain that he will resign. After a couple of hours of contentment I retracted it, suddenly aware that only normal people would react that way. The Rump is not normal so he probably doesn't know that resigning is the decent thing to do.

A complicating factor is that the earlier he is no longer the president, the earlier he will face a myriad of other problems.

I still don't want him to kill himself, but, really, only because it would instantly make him a martyr.


08 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM (#4087005)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know more about the alleged offenses at other capitols? I haven't looked it up but last night Joy Reid mentioned that there were trumpies in evidence at the capitols of several other states.


08 Jan 21 - 03:28 AM (#4087006)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal examining the question of impeachment, and recommending resignation.

I truly cannot understand anyone supporting the worst President in living memory who has trashed democracy and the Constitution, and turned the greatest nation on Earth into a laughing-stock in the way he has. It’s becoming very obvious that our local saying here is absolutely true - “You can’t educate pork”.


08 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM (#4087010)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

It appears that demonstrators appeared at at least five different capitals in various states. Mostly peaceable but there were a few instances of arrests for disorderly conduct..


08 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM (#4087022)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story."

Not so. The end of the story would be the Senate trial after impeachment. Only if the impeachment leads to the trial stage may he be barred from future office (and that is at the discretion of the Senate in any case). You have just twelve days to go through all the stages in the impeachment-trial process. If by 20 Jan you haven't got that far, the trial in the Senate won't go ahead (whether that's the Constitution I don't know, but there are precedents). You can't remove someone from office who is no longer holding that office (as with Nixon, for example). A failed impeachment process would be grist to his mill. Invoking the 25th Amendment would be a way to prevent him from directly doing more damage between now and the 20th but it wouldn't stop him from running again in 2024. There is scope as I see it for a criminal trial, along the lines of incitement to riot or similar, but that is not clear-cut enough for a trial to be short and sharp. A dragging-on criminal trial would be a very bad thing for your country and would very likely foment disorder among Trump's millions of supporters. You could simply let the dust settle and hope that he becomes more and more marginalised in his growing derangement, but if that doesn't work and he continues to stir up trouble it would be difficult to resurrect the alternatives. In the days before mass communication, wasn't exile a wonderful idea! You have a big problem, potentially, and whether it materialises will depend on Donald being a good boy, or not, from now on. In other words, he's in control. One of the fruits of populism, innit.


08 Jan 21 - 06:56 AM (#4087024)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

I think the best thing that Americans can pray for is that he pegs out before 2024. He’s morbidly obese, it’s a possibility.

I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!


08 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM (#4087025)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I read BWM's link to the WSJ after I typed that. The trouble is that he's done a complete volte-face this morning in a tactical move to distance himself from the riot that he himself incited, typical of the man. That will play well for him in any future hearing and will make impeachment attempts look like opportunism on the part of his opponents - they've already screwed up once - and I should think that even reluctant Republicans might still stand behind him. What a mess. I think that a resignation would be out of character but I hope I'm wrong. He's a very bad man but to label him stupid would be naive.


08 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM (#4087027)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!"

A bit reminiscent of today's story about the burglar who sat on his phone during the burglary and accidentally rang 999. The police responded accordingly, went round to the location of the burglary and caught two blokes red-handed...


08 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM (#4087029)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Double Karma! <3


08 Jan 21 - 07:11 AM (#4087031)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Trump's political career is over after the events of Wed. and last week's phone call to Georgia, and his disgraceful non-response to the current pandemic, (4000 COVID deaths in the U.S. yesterday). In 2024 he'll be 78 and 4 more years into his obvious cognitive decline while the American electorate will become more diverse and younger in that time. His shortcomings as a kingmaker were also evident in the GOP failures in the Georgia runoffs. He may still have some juice and in some solid red districts but the majority of Republican candidates won't have much use for him, assuming he's still alive and out of jail.

Chao and DeVos resigned on principle but if they had any real principles they'd stick around and vote to invoke the 25th. As it is they're just rats exiting a sinking ship.


08 Jan 21 - 07:12 AM (#4087032)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I could see that the Proud Boys were standing by to ignite violence but I did not know they had printed civil war II and rebellion T shirts for their Jan. 6 attack. I expected something but not the armed trashing of the Capitol.
A second person has died from their injuries after being bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher. He was a Capitol policeman.


08 Jan 21 - 07:13 AM (#4087033)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Apparently, the burglar's phone call ran and ran, and the cops heard everything that was going on right up to the moment they arrived on the scene...


08 Jan 21 - 07:15 AM (#4087034)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It's fine to surmise that his political career may be over, but you don't need a political career to do a lot of damage, and don't forget the 70-odd million people who voted for him. They won't all simply evaporate in a flash.


08 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM (#4087036)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Unlike me, Mrs Backwoodsperson isn’t given to profanity but, on watching the riots unfold on TV and hearing the lunatic statements being made by some of the rioters - “This is the start of the Second Civil War”, “America wasn’t founded on democracy, it was founded on violent insurrection”, yadda yadda - she turned to me and said “The US is fucked for the next ten years at least”.

I think she has a point.


08 Jan 21 - 07:32 AM (#4087038)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

It will certainly take awhile for the stench of trump to fade.

Josh Hawley bought himself a peck of trouble for supporting trump, the 2 largest newspapers in Missouri, his home state, have called for him to resign (the Kansas City Star declaring that he had blood on his hands after the events of Wed. afternoon) and Simon and Schuster cancelled his book deal. He's earned this, let's hope Cruz gets his just desserts as well.


08 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM (#4087046)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Have a vomit receptacle close at hand for this one-

trump and family waiting to go onstage and foment mob violence-Queensland Times


08 Jan 21 - 09:00 AM (#4087049)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I got the chronology wrong, the video was shot after these "American Patriots" had addressed the mob and were watching the events unfold together on TV. None of these "American Patriots" actually had the cojones to accompany the mob they loosed on the Captiol.


08 Jan 21 - 10:11 AM (#4087052)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

gillymore, thanks for posting that article

Ive been following the current situation on 2 of Australia's largest news sites & hadn't seen it. According to Wikipedia Queensland Times is a small local paper (circulation under 15,000, 40km from the state capital) but it has that story.

did you notice the article was posted under the heading CRIME?

sandra


08 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM (#4087056)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

That is entirely appropriate, a massive criminal investigation is being undertaken, arrests have been made and trump, his family and his sleazy henchmen may be facing sedition charges.


08 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM (#4087060)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

On the idea of "Exile"...

"Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp...

In January 2018, US President Donald Trump signed an executive order to keep the detention camp open indefinitely.
"

It would be good karma...


08 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM (#4087063)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

The Trumpites in January 2021 are certainly proving Samuel Johnson’s words in April 1775 about ‘Patriotism’ absolutely correct.


08 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM (#4087072)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

We should not give into the fear that impeaching, or any other means of removal, of Trump will give him more martyr or victim status to his crazy base.

Either way he will go away. As a martyr or as a pathetic selfish enemy of the US.


08 Jan 21 - 12:55 PM (#4087076)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I can get behind that post, Donuel. Even if it won't yield a conviction congress has a constitutional duty to act and a moral one to put forth the message that no one is above the law.
Right, BW, and the scoundrels have been doing a lot of flag-waving (i.e. ass-covering) on social media since Wednesday afternoon.


08 Jan 21 - 12:56 PM (#4087077)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

No point worrying about trump becoming a martyr,
when so many of his dangerously deranged acolytes
have already elevated him to the status of god and saviour...


08 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM (#4087079)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Early Wednesday morning, prior to the Capitol violence, I woke up to a live youtube of Rudy Giuliani claiming that the just completed Georgia elections had been fraudulent, and with him was a "Professor" Eastman who acted as if he had facts (he hadn't) as to how the voting machines were rigged. You can still find this on youtube but I have not heard it in the news feeds as the later news of the day swamped it out.

Meanwhile Steven Colbert last night was pretty spot on. First was a report, presumably news-based, that the Turkish government had issued the kind of alert to their citizens in the U.S. that is usually given to Americans in third world countries. Then a mock shot of Kim Jong-Un telling his citizens to avoid the dangers of America. Colbert was taking the events seriously which you could see in his face, but the ridiculousness
of the domestic antagonists was highlighted. "I got maced because I was in the Capitol for the revolution!"

And now I hear that Trump says he will not attend the inauguration. History is being made, people!


08 Jan 21 - 01:25 PM (#4087081)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'm dizzy with so much truth here.
Lets getim, Impeachment will take away his ability to all campaign contributions,,,kick him in the wallet. -even if McConell sits on his hands and stalls, a new Comgress can proceed ex post facto.


08 Jan 21 - 01:30 PM (#4087082)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

He will not be impeached even though he deserves it, wait and see


08 Jan 21 - 01:51 PM (#4087086)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I hate to keep saying it, but unless the impeachment process progresses to a Senate trial it would be no more than symbolic, and, crucially, wouldn't prevent him from standing again. You have 12 days and counting, which appears to mean that you haven't got much chance. He's played a very canny and very cynical game today. If it ever comes to a criminal trial, he now has all today's astonishing capers in his defence armoury.


08 Jan 21 - 02:24 PM (#4087095)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

correction = Crucially, Impeachment WOULD prevent him from 'standing' again.

Perhaps the ransacking of the capitol has not dawned on some people yet. Laptops were carried away as well as entire lecterns and documents. Somehow secret Democratic Senator offices were found on the third floor. I do not know the status of safes.
Some one had a Mauraders map.:^/ or informant?
The first target was the Senate chamber where the state ballots were.
Unless they have a ID card magnetic code our laptops can not be opened.


08 Jan 21 - 02:25 PM (#4087096)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Can we at least hope for one of his own family getting too impatient to hear his will read..

Great advances have been made in the development of easily targeted hard to detect lethal nerve agents...


08 Jan 21 - 02:26 PM (#4087097)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I suspect he is practicing pardoning himself in a mirror. Which is the best the stable genious can manage at self reflection.


08 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM (#4087099)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Are these your own zingers? They're great


08 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM (#4087105)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Capitol police have few leads,the DMP have less, Homeland Security is stumped and the CIA NSA and MI are clueless so I'm going to call Lt. Joe Kenda Homicide Hunter.


08 Jan 21 - 03:27 PM (#4087107)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Actually authorities are identifying a lot of the rioters from the crowing they've done on social media. Arrests to follow. Some of those Id'ed have lost their jobs. We're talking about some real "stable geniuses" here.


08 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM (#4087109)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

During the UK anti mask protests..
Organizers of the anti mask protests advised the mob
to wear masks whilst protesting against wearing masks...?????

Reasoning being to avoid identification by law enforcement...

Your yank far right crazies are obviously a lot stupider than ours...!!!


08 Jan 21 - 04:26 PM (#4087113)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

Let's keep in mind that what started out looking like a namby-pamby assembly has resulted in two killings, two pipe bombs, some Molotov cocktails and three deaths from unknown causes.

One killing was the shooting of a woman breaking into the Speaker's Lobby, one killing was caused by striking a Capitol policemen in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Trump and Hawley have blood on their hands.


08 Jan 21 - 04:47 PM (#4087116)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

pfr:

I take pride in the craziness of our crazies versus your crazies. Your crazies wearing masks to protest having to wear masks shows a lack of appreciation of irony. Our crazies self identifying shows their fearlessness before the law. Or maybe a lack of appreciation of cause and effect. Some youngster is gonna get a Masters Degree writing this stuff up!


08 Jan 21 - 05:27 PM (#4087120)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Sorry to have to keep blathering on in the face of obstinacy, but impeachment doesn't find anyone guilty of anything. It's what FOLLOWS the impeachment stage - the Senate trial - that can do that. And the whole impeachment process is generally used to try to remove someone from office, something that's happening imminently anyway. It is next to impossible for the process to advance to the Senate trial stage in Trump's case. There isn't time, and, even if there was, he could avoid it by resigning. If by some miracle the whole impeachment/Senate trial process can go the whole way, it could stop Trump from standing again in four years' time. Good luck with that. Otherwise, the impeachment would be symbolic and have no clout. The other alternative would be for a court to convict him of criminal offences and chuck him in jail. Wow, a martyr with 70 million supporters... I told you, he's a very bad man, but he isn't the fool you might take him to be.


08 Jan 21 - 05:40 PM (#4087121)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, you will just have to wait and see like the rest of us. Yes, we know the stages of impeachment, we went through it last year, it's still fresh. Even though he wasn't found guilty by the cowardly GOP in the senate, he still was impeached.

This next one will be down and dirty, but there is a lot riding on it - those folks who want to run for president in four years - well, if Trump is still in the mix, they probably won't be able to, and they're minding the main chance. Maybe they'll finally throw Trump under the bus. If he is removed from office he can't run again. That would be a huge sigh of relief for a lot of people.


08 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM (#4087122)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

He's either found guilty by a Senate trial (and the charges are - what??) or he's thrown in jail. Anything else you do, he can run again. Hope doesn't trump the facts, Maggie.


08 Jan 21 - 06:00 PM (#4087125)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Maggie, I guess we just have to wait and see. I read in a news article this morning that a decision can also be made after a conviction on the impeachment on whether Trump can run again for president. It's a separate decision to the impeachment decision:

"Impeachment in the House has to come first (via a simple majority). Then the Senate has to vote to convict (via a two-thirds majority). Then the Senate can decide to ban the president from running for office again (a separate vote to conviction, and also a two thirds majority). It has to happen in that order."

ABC News Australia blog

And I had a lovely image of that big yellow-haired Trump-baby balloon being thrown under a bus.


08 Jan 21 - 06:28 PM (#4087128)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well that's right. It seems that articles of impeachment could be brought before the House by the middle of next week. That could be voted on quickly, and the process could be then taken to a Senate trial. I have no idea how quickly these things can be expedited in the US - but you will have one week from the vote in the House. One week, and he's going after that, at the latest, anyway. You have three hurdles: the timeline, the fact that he could scupper the whole thing by resigning (a good bet, I should say, if he sees the runes agin him), and the almost unassailable probability that the impeachers will not get the supermajority in the Senate. Another thing: the last impeachment, if anything, made him even more popular. And he has those seventy million behind him who are instantly going to see him as a martyr if you do anything precipitate. As I keep saying, good luck. And Maggie, I seriously want to be dead wrong.


08 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM (#4087129)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I note that Ms Pelosi would rather have Mike Pence invoke the 25th Amendment. Well that's very interesting. She's a politician to her boot heels. If she got her way, it would mean that a right-wIng Republican had taken ownership of the ridding of Trump. His supporters would not then be able to blame leftie/liberals/commies for his demise. So Pence won't do that. He may well have distanced himself from Trump to an extent, but he'll have an army of advisers telling him not to do that deed.


08 Jan 21 - 07:14 PM (#4087133)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

best- resignation
good- 25th ammendment
fair- ex post facto impeachment comnviction in new Democratic Senate.
( he will suffer financially most with this )


08 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM (#4087134)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I don't know your constitutional nuances at all well, but I can't see there being much appetite, even if it were possible, for a "post facto" impeachment. And the Senate is hardly a massive Democratic Party bastion, is it, so a two-thirds supermajority to convict him is pie in the sky, frankly. If Pence invokes the 25th Amendment, I'll happily eat my hat. But if Trump sees the force to be not with him any more, he may resign. But you seriously don't think he wants to go without trace, do you. As I was saying to Maggie, days of hope can end in bitter tears. As I also said to Maggie, I desperately want to be as wrong as wrong can be. It's not just your country. It's the bloody planet.


08 Jan 21 - 07:44 PM (#4087137)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, if he is found guilty and removed from office Trump cannot run again. That's the reason for a second impeachment.


08 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM (#4087143)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

I read that Twitter have now blocked his account.


08 Jan 21 - 08:24 PM (#4087146)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is even a second route for the 25th ammendment that has never been used that bypasses Pense entirely and uses 8 MD's and reprsentatives of each party up to 17 members. It would be titled as a commission and not the cabinate.

Impeachment takes a minimum of 3 days.
Rats are leaving the ship even Lyndsy Graham who is now being called Donald Trump's 'fluffer' here in town. ( A fluffer is—or at least is said to be—someone on a pornographic film set that keeps a male performer's penis erect in between scenes.)
Hypocrites like Ted Cruz and others are in jeopardy.


08 Jan 21 - 08:31 PM (#4087147)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You can't remove him from office if he's not in office by natural means any more after the 20th. Fine, if you can get on with it before then. But removing him from office can be done only in one of two ways, via the 25th Amendment or via by conviction by the Senate after impeachment. The latter will not happen, Maggie. Even if it looks to Trump like it might, he will circumvent it by resigning. Please Lord, let me be wrong. We'll be having a very different conversation in a couple of weeks, but, in the meantime, don't underestimate Trump's potential for twists, turns, lies and trickery.


08 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM (#4087151)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

According to BBC news interview just before 2 am UK time..

There are serious concerns trump still has access to nuclear codes...???


08 Jan 21 - 11:19 PM (#4087156)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Yanks and Brits, this US/UK comparative video
shouldn't be a total waste of 15 mins of your time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIol-QKTW4c


08 Jan 21 - 11:44 PM (#4087158)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

General Milley has been consulted regarding those nuclear codes.


08 Jan 21 - 11:48 PM (#4087159)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Reddit bans subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump"

    Reddit has banned the subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump," a spokesperson confirmed to Axios.

    Why it matters: While not an official group or page hosted by the president, it's one of the company's largest political communities dedicated to support for President Trump.

    What they're saying: "Reddit's site-wide policies prohibit content that promotes hate, or encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence against groups of people or individuals. In accordance with this, we have been proactively reaching out to moderators to remind them of our policies and to offer support or resources as needed," a spokesperson tells Axios.


Meanwhile, more rats are leaving that sinking ship. Trump must be awfully lonely in the White House. Hopefully he heads out to Mar A Lago before someone tells him he'll get attention if he burns the place down.


08 Jan 21 - 11:54 PM (#4087160)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

And more:

The big picture: It's the latest in a string of platforms to take action against Trump's accounts following the historic pro-Trump riot at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Twitch and Snapchat disabled Trump's accounts.

Shopify took down two online stores affiliated with the president.

Facebook and Instagram banned Trump from posting for at least the next two weeks, and faced calls to boot him permanently, including from former First Lady Michelle Obama and high-ranking Hill Democrats.

Twitter froze Trump out of his account Wednesday before reinstating him Thursday once he deleted problematic tweets. [He kept it up so now he's permanently blocked.]

YouTube says it's accelerating its enforcement of voter fraud claims against President Trump and others based on Wednesday's events.

TikTok is removing content violations and redirecting hashtags like #stormthecapitol and #patriotparty to its community guidelines.


09 Jan 21 - 02:25 AM (#4087165)
Subject: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: The Sandman

Trump is threatening to start a rival social media channel to twitter , any suitable names for it? , perhaps Twatter, or Clap trap


09 Jan 21 - 02:38 AM (#4087168)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

pfr that was an interesting video. I don't know enough of the British Constitution (unwritten) to judge the speaker's veracity and of course I don't have a personal take on Boris Johnson other than John Oliver's, but I'm always fascinated by Democracy in Olde Englande.

It did make me reflect on the fact that Donald Trump is probably in a state of terror right now. In less than two weeks he'll be stripped of his shell like a hermit crab yanked from its protection. He probably feels just that vulnerable.

So he IS pretty dangerous right now.


09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM (#4087170)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Up until a few minutes ago I had never heard of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson.

This interview is one of the best I've watched regarding trump's impending demise,
from one of the most sensible US political commentators I've found so far...


"Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVTnC0Hky0&ab_channel=AmanpourandCompany


09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM (#4087171)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: punkfolkrocker

YouTrumped...


09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM (#4087172)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: robomatic

The TrumpDump!

Because you know.... It's Trump and a digital .... you know....


09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM (#4087176)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Joe Offer

Many of his followers are on Parler, and much of Wednesday's attack of the Capitol was planned there. Google Play dropped the Parler app on Friday, and Apple is expected to drop the app on Saturday.

-Joe-


09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM (#4087178)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Sandra in Sydney

Tantrump


09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM (#4087183)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor

Twatter


09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM (#4087184)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I read just now on the BBC news website that the earliest an article of impeachment could be put to the Senate would be on the 19th. The feeling is still that getting a Senate supermajority to convict him is almost inconceivable. It isn't clear either whether convicting him once he's left office on the 20th would be constitutionally sound...


09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM (#4087187)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Moscow Mitch put out a memo yesterday stating that the Senate, in the event of an impeachment, would not even begin prepping for a trial until the 19th, effectively saying no trial. But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. Even scum like trump deserves a fair hearing and shouldn't be railroaded into a hasty trial but he needs to be strongly repudiated after his shameful, seditious and undemocratic actions on Wednesday and on last week's Georgia phone call. Some times you've got to do the right thing even though it might not appear to be the smart or practical thing in order to get the message out there that no one is above the law. Thank goodness Pelosi and her caucus see it this way. Early next week the House will tie a bow around our worst presidency with a historic 2nd impeachment.


09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM (#4087188)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

2nd sentence should read-"But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably won't, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. "


09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM (#4087189)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

That doesn't sound constitutional, but do correct me if I'm wrong...


09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM (#4087190)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

If you're referring to the Senate's ability to prevent someone from running for office after impeachment, it's been done twice before in our history, both times with federal judges, I believe.


09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM (#4087193)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Maybe we have our wires crossed. I know that he can be banned from office once the Senate finds him guilty via a supermajority (though I'm unclear about the constitutional position once he's left office on the 20th, and some of your constitutional lawyers are also unsure). I thought you meant that there could be the sort of fast-track that missed out steps...


09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM (#4087194)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

The way I understand it is that the Senate, after an impeachment in the House, can vote to ban the impeached from seeking public office via a super majority vote without a trial or a conviction. I would be very much in favor of that though there's not much chance of it happening but trump's going to have legal problems in a number of venues that will probably keep him occupied until the grave, might even cause him to miss a few rounds of golf or an assignation with a porn star.


09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM (#4087197)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

What makes everyone inciting the coup CRIMINALLY respondsible is an overarching legal term called MENS REA be it Trump or Rudy or Senators.
Since the basis for their actions are based on FRAUD (the election was rigged) there is criminal culpability of all its founders. If there was any possiility that the basis for their action was not fraud but a provable fact with evidence there would not be Mens Rea and there would not be criminal action at the foundation of all their words and behavior.
Well Steve knows more US law than most Americans. BUT There are more nooks and crannies in the Constitution than people think.
Mitch McConnell has decided to sit on his hands and leave it to the next Congress. Every thing I wrote is accurate. I won't repeat it.
I have some Constitutional awareness since my dad was a constitutional law professor.


09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM (#4087198)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A simple 50/50 majority is needed to ban Trump from ever holding office. A 2/3 majority is needed for guilt


09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM (#4087199)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Quite right, a simple majority is all it takes but I doubt Moscow Mitch would want Republican senators in swing states to have to vote on it. We'll have a real AG on the 20th instead of a trump bootlicker so let's hope the force of law hits him like a ton of bricks.


09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM (#4087200)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

It needs a proper lawyer to answer this, but it looks to me as if the simple majority to ban from future federal roles only applies after he has been convicted on the two-thirds majority. I could very easily be wrong there, but as an abstract principle the ban looks like a punishment and the 2/3 is about guilt. So having a punishment when a person is found not guilty sounds odd.


09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM (#4087203)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I think you're right DMcG, and I apologize if I've introduced misinformation here. It was not my intent to deceive any one.

From NYMag-
NY Mag

From the article-
"Indeed, Senate rules provide that such a ban may be enacted by a simple majority vote after two-thirds of the Senate has voted for conviction in an impeachment trial."


09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM (#4087205)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much.
Its my wife who gets called to the Capitol to testify as part of her job. I just get to complain about the gubmint full time. I am not a lawyer so feel free to ignore everything I've said. I won't sue you.


09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM (#4087207)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

That NY mag article indicates that it may be possible to try an impeached trump in the senate even after he's left office.
At this point he's probably getting chapped lips from kissing Pence's ass in hopes of attaining a Nixon/Ford-like pardon, the same ass he was chewing on a few days ago for not conducting an unconstitutional activity on his behalf in the Senate Chamber.


09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM (#4087208)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much."
Let me point out that you also got it wrong.


09 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM (#4087211)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Lets look at the big picture. While Trump got 70 million votes fewer than 20 million will put their lives and family on the line to die for Trump. This constitutes an Army composed of Nazi, KKK spin offs and bible / gun nuts.

They are capable of a great deal of damage.
They won access to ransack the capitol but FAILED; to delay Biden vote, Hang Mike Pense, hold lawmakers hostage and murder the guilty by kangaroo court as similarly planned against the govenor of Michigan.

Next are the enablers; Murdoch, Zuckerberg, Trump, Republican Senators, Sinlair local radio and TV etc.



Am I saying anything new here" I don't think so. If you haven't opened your eyes yet they could be closed by violence.


09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM (#4087213)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Thompson

Tantrump gets my vote!


09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM (#4087218)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Mr Red

BriteFart


09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM (#4087222)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: peteglasgow

....also enabling trump seems to have been the evangelical christian churches. will they be able to change their tune? maybe accept a bit of humility? there should be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going around - will it change much in the US? i really don't know whether we should be horrified or encouraged by recent events and what will happen next.....


09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM (#4087223)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

And where, pray, does that statistic come from?

I think that gillymor, DMcG and I are on the same page now apropos of the impeachment process requirements. The banning from future office-holding can only be brought about after a Senate trial and a supermajority vote. What still isn't clear to me is whether it would be constitutional to go ahead with the whole process, including the Senate trial, after he's left office. Another point is that it's important to not conflate what the Senate does and what the criminal justice system does: impeachment is not intended to lead to punishment, and it doesn't enjoy anything like the same due process requirements.

His resignation would be owned by him. Amendment 25 would be owned, probably, by Mike Pence. Impeachment, if successful and leading to a ban from future office, would be seen to be owned by the Democratic Party. I've put them in the order of desirability as I see it, from best to worst. If none of those things happens, and there ends up being a criminal trial, which would be protracted, I think your country would be in hot water for a very long time. He did get an awful lot of voters behind him, and martyrdom would likely follow... Be careful what you wish for, and be even more careful what you charge him with.

We could be in for quite an interesting few days.


09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM (#4087225)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Donuel

There are already existimg available platforms like News One and AHC. They call it the American Heros Channel but I call it the All Hitler Channel-they really do broadcast Hitler documentaries 24/7


09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM (#4087226)
Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor

covfefemax

(whoops, I see you beat me to twatter, Sandman)


09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM (#4087228)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

plus you have trump's malevolent arsehole son perpetuating the nutzi shit stirring...


09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM (#4087230)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I was raised by a scientist father who thought it important that I have a (mild) religious education.

Kind of like a vaccine. I grew to appreciate it when I was at school and the Campus Crusade for Christ came by. Having a background in the language and stories of religion has not only been useful but inspirational. But my version keeps me interested and with no feeling that I have all the answers. Indeed, my personal religion is to keep questioning, including questioning myself.

And so whether or not one believes in God, I think one of the great lessons of God is that whatever, whoever God is, it's NOT YOU.

This may be the flaw in Trump's personal makeup. And one of the things that makes him unsuitable to be a Commander in Chief. We all have delusions, if only the delusion that we have no delusions, but that one fatal flaw, to confuse oneself with divinity, does not end well. It's one of the reasons that Trump lets down EVERYONE who believes in him. Because the one being he can't conceive of letting down is himself.


09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM (#4087232)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A quick legal Q&A
Who is culpable? Mea Culpa
Who intended crime in their mind? Mens Rea.

Main Stream Media was an enabler imo in the failure to call White Supremacy a brewing evil in all of its excuses, goons, mobs, REAL AMERICANS and those who burned and rioted blaming it on a ethereal mass movement called antifa.

Some of the rioters and looters have practice in the field and consider themselves veteran soldiers. Stalin said when one person is murdered its a tradgedy but a million are a statisic. He also said how people vote doesn't matter, what matters is who counts votes.

Of 20% of Trump voters who will fight in place for their feurer the actual number will be much lower for those who will travel for engagement, so Inauguration day will have a few too many Nazi instigators.
I suspect they will keep their promise. This time we might listen and learn who the real enemy and 5th columnists are.


09 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM (#4087234)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

robo i was 'inoculated' as well.














































i


09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM (#4087246)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

DonTrumpuel:

You are the only one I know who can oscillate and fibrillate at the same time!


09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM (#4087251)
Subject: RE: BS: robo Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mr. Red Hotcold You're such a titillating dear. My bet is that we are all unique desite the obvious similarities.
Left to simmer, there is enough deep seated skum to float to the top along with trump fat and then be spooned out of the pot.
It seems if one can predict events and later claim they were right they WIN the mudcat BS game. Meanwhile there are the sore losers.

I have this cartoon of Donald Jr leading the tip of the spear charge of a light brigade into the teeth of hundreds of tanks. Jr's caption "were havin fun huntin you down" caption for tanks "fire".


09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM (#4087257)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Fox is doubling down in sarcastic tones referring to the "so called threats of violence" and gleefully attacking Geraldo Rivera for "repeating Democrat talking points". They are in NNM nazi normalization mode.


09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM (#4087264)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I watched the video of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson and also this one on the same page.

Mary Trump Predicts A “Dangerous” Next Two Weeks Under the Trump Administration

Among other topics, Mary Trump mentions some of the many challenges Trump will probably be facing after he leaves office.

Also Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist, has evaluated DT and presents the case that DT ticks many of the boxes for sociopathy.

Personally, having worked with a number of people over the years who also appeared to exhibit sociopathic behaviours, I know that they can charm their friends and colleagues into believing all sorts of things. They do it with complete conviction because they believe themselves to be special, invincible, better than the rest of humanity, and entitled to do whatever they want regardless of the effect on others and with no apparent moral compass. When/if the scales fall from the eyes of their supporters it becomes very difficult for them to cope with the fact that the sociopath has used them, chewed them up and spit them out without a second glance as s/he goes on her/his merry way with the next target or project in sight.


09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM (#4087267)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Speaking of relatives, Melania is a sharp cookie, knows what she wants and is the most staunch deal maker.
Remember when she refused to move down to the White House with trump in 2016. Until she got a favorable renegotiated pre nup she did not budge. She insisted on a child, her parents immigration and mo money.

I picture Don Jr. on horseback wielding a sword along with his cavalry on race horses, polo ponies and Buffalo hunters. Bill Barr is saddled on a mule and Eric is racing RC cars.

I have Rudy dressed like Napoleon and Ivanka is singing diamonds are a girl's best friend.


09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM (#4087275)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'll just leaven the bread with this little aside, fretting not a jot about its appropriateness:

There is a plane carrying 5 passengers: Nicola Sturgeon, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, the Pope and a 10-year-old school boy.

The plane begins to go down and is about to crash. There are only 4 parachutes on board.

Nicola Sturgeon says "I have to live, I have the Scottish independence to sort out," and takes a parachute and jumps.

The Pope says "I have to live, I have to sort out the Catholic Church," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Donald Trump says "I have to live, I'm the smartest man in America," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Boris Johnson looks at the 10-year-old school boy and says "You can have the last parachute. I'm a lot older than you and I've lived my life, yours has yet to begin."

The school boy says "Don't worry Mr Johnson. There's two parachutes left. The smartest man in America just took my school bag."


09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM (#4087277)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Yes, it is unfair, trumpists are giving n@zis a bad name...


09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM (#4087280)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Okay, dumb dumb joke time, and like Steve's, this is a reframed famous joke:

You are in a locked room with Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Donald Trmp. Fortune has allocated you with a Colt 45 loaded with two bullets.

What do you do?













Shoot Donald twice, to be sure.

It's a JOKE!


09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM (#4087282)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

HAHAHA And here comes Steve limping out onto the field in his too tight referee outfit and whistles my post dead and issues a red card for saying NAZI.

I'm watching video of your 'patriotic protestors' wearing Tee Shirts that say Camp Aushwitz work sets you free and grey shirts that say 6MENE. Translated it means Six Million Exterminated Not Enough.

I suppose Steve thinks a proper Nazi should have gone to finishing school with the Hitler Youth like the prior Pope.
I liked your joke.


09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM (#4087283)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Well I liked it 4 years ago.


09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM (#4087287)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Robo, I would wait until they are standing next to each other like in the Red Dwarf despair squid episode.


09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM (#4087289)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It's time for trial by combat, Lets get ready to rumblllllllllllle. In this corner Ser Gregor Clegane at 385 lbs fighting in abesntia of Donald Trump and in this corner Joe Biden at 142 lbs. You can hear the wind of Ser Gregor's sword as it is swung in circles above his head.
Joe points a phaser at Gregor and vaporizes all but his sword saying "I believe in science". Cries of 'unfair' rigged and cheated can be heard.


09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM (#4087301)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'll try again. There are half a dozen posts in this thread just today which are likening Americans to Hitler/Nazis. This is neither sensible nor constructive, nor does it exactly make this forum look great. I tried to say this in a very brief post, but the Nazi allusions are still there yet my cavil was deleted. These references are lazy and throwaway, and while they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters. They are people who need to be won back in droves. There are far better ways of doing that than by name-calling and branding.


09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM (#4087304)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

There are at least 17 known Neo-Nazi organisations that are extant in US. it is dangerous to deny their existence.


09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM (#4087307)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'm not denying their existence and I'm not complacent. But I repeat: millions of people supported Trump, they are not by any means all Nazis (incidentally, please define...) and we need to win them back.


09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM (#4087308)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

If a certain type of person was called a n@zi 80 years ago,
and a very similar type of person could now be called a 'trumpzi'..

They are still the same kind of person...

They have existed under one name or another throughout the ages.....

Hopefully, for all our safety, a significant numbers of trump supporters are still salvageable...???


09 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM (#4087309)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

My view has always been that the term Nazi should be applied, more or less exclusively, to the contemporary active supporters of the Hitler regime. There are plenty of dictators who have acted just like Nazis, and there are hopefuls in most western countries who would like to act like Nazis. But to chuck the term around lazily is to severely devalue the historical horror of the true Nazis in the thirties and forties. Here's a case in point: I severely dislike and condemn the Israeli regime for the inhuman, often murderous, way they discriminate against non-Jews in the West Bank and Gaza. But many's the time on this and on several other forums that I've bitten back against anyone on my side of this argument who calls the Israelis Nazis. Quite simply, they are not, and the insult is intended to remind them, as hurtfully as possible, what real Nazis did to the Jews and to somehow equate the regimes behaviour with that. That's just wicked. The other thing is that we can find different words. We are not inarticulate. Even "neo-Nazi" does at least make some distinction. Far right, white supremacists, stuff like that. All fine. I want Nazi to mean someone of a Hitler-supporting mindset that affords no compunction to that person when it comes to blind discrimination and unfettered, state-supported evil-doing. Let's not misuse and devalue the term on this forum is what I'm saying. In m'humble.


09 Jan 21 - 08:56 PM (#4087311)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Steve - I do tend to agree with you, and usually refer to the shittest human beings
as neo n@zis, or fascistic..

Though, trumpzis, and nutzis, and any other "....zis" folks can make up to take the piss out of the c@nts, is fair game...

.. c@ntzis...


09 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM (#4087313)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I agree with that. The @ symbol is a wonderful way of not having to be literal in the lingo. And bugger me sideways with a bent banana if it isn't five past two and way past my bedtime...


09 Jan 21 - 09:15 PM (#4087314)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

well.. I not an expert, but I'm hoping the @ throws off search engines...


09 Jan 21 - 09:36 PM (#4087316)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

I keep reading, both here and elsewhere, that more than 70 million people voted for Trump. In fact, 70 million people voted against the Democratic party. Many of those would vote for a stick with rosette on it, so long as the the rosette was red and said Republican. As the sitting President, Trump got pretty much a free ride to the 2020 nomination. In 2016, it would appear that not everyone realised just how ridiculous he would turn out to be. If he tries again in 2024, Republican party members will know what to expect. Forewarned is forearmed. Trump is a spent force. I think we should be more worried about Donald Jr. or Ivanka stepping up to the plate, maybe not in 2024, but in years to come.

DC


09 Jan 21 - 09:54 PM (#4087318)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I have been very reticent about using the 'other' N word. For one thing, I think there IS a distinction to be made between the @zis of the 30s and 40s and the 'wanna-bes' of today. The majority of them in the far-right websites in America have no real idea of what the real ones were like. Take a look at "Garden of Beasts" for a mild reminder. And use of the term in this thread is more likely to remind us of a bad Seinfeld episode than to make a valid point about Trmp supporters.

For another thing, this ain't over. There ARE folks in the wings who do strive to be like the original. I've schlepped through D. Duke's "My Awakening" and it appeared to me to be long, repetitive, (unconvincing), but a genuine attempt to parallel "Mein Kampf" in an American environment.

And these people are distinct from Trmp and his kind. Indeed, Trmp overcame a great gulf since he has supposed Jewish in-laws and grandchildren. I think what may very well happen is that in the fallout from his failures, he will simply be re-labeled as a Jew himself.

Trmp has severe personality flaws and is despicable besides. And his great 'contribution' by which I mean damage is that he has been a diverter from what is really worth concentrating on in our national life. I don't think that is planned, just among the results of the effects of TMI on the world due to the nature of the data spigot of the social network combined with cult of celebrity. A sad revelation but we are subject to influences we have not learned to control.


10 Jan 21 - 02:00 AM (#4087332)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

I am not a Republican, but I'm human enough to want to know how Vice President Mike Pence is faring. Apparently he has gone into seclusion. In my opinion Pence has suffered something like being raped by a relative. Trump set a lawless mob upon him.

I've seen Trump's "incitement" speech and I've seen footage of the mob inside the Capitol. At first the people on the Capitol lawn seemed obnoxious but not dangerous. But the mob in the hallway where Ashli Babbitt was shot was vicious, lawless and looking for somebody to destroy. And the main person they were looking for was the person Trump pointed at - his Vice President, Mike Pence.


10 Jan 21 - 03:08 AM (#4087334)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

The education system suits the present establishment , they do not want people to question, challenge or solve problems, yet many of our advances were made by challenging the system , an example Galileo, who met with great opposition from the Roman Catholic church. if people are not educated to challenge or question ,how can they discern truth from propoganda. Let us take Trump, Trump like most politicians is a puppet but he is a naughty puppet and a cunning operator, he has manipulated his supporters [ some of whom were shot] by posing as anti establishment, but does he have an ulterior motive is he [by getting his supporters to storm the capitol] warning the american establishment that if he is impeachd, he will expose other american politicians corruption. If people are not educated to challenge question and solve problems how can they discern or learn how to recognise hate speech and misinformation, If people are educated only in the style of Gradgrind[ Dickens Hard Times] of only facts they are ideal recipients for propaganda posing as facts


10 Jan 21 - 03:47 AM (#4087336)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

[Being called N@zi] While they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters

The snag is, that was true in the 1930s as well. I have recently read "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933–45' which is largely based on interviews with 'ordinary' Germans, not military officers. Many could also be classed as 'simply misguided.'

However, I don't it too helpful to dwell on analogies from the past here: there are similarities and differences.

On the impeachment question: I think it important to consider the 2022 Senate elections as well. There are 20 Republican senators up for re-election, as well as 14 Democrat. By framing the impeachment as about the protecting the Constitution or Trump, it goes a long way towards forcing those 20 to declare themselves for the Constitution or for Trump, and either risks splitting their support, so helps the Democrats. Of course, these are politicians so avoiding such traps is something they are all experienced in. Nevertheless, the trap awaits.


10 Jan 21 - 04:34 AM (#4087340)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It's gratifying to see a sensible and measured discussion emerging in this thread. I hope that we can keep it up.

To respond to DMcG, I agree with what you say when you compare the rise of the Nazis in the 30s with what went on last week (and its long build-up since 2016). But I do believe, despite the threat which I would not wish to understate, that there is still enough backbone in western democracies on both sides of the Atlantic to see off the kind of assault we saw last week. There was a severe fragility in German society at that time, in a country recently ravaged by a war that had decimated its young generation and left the country's economy and infrastructure in tatters, ripe conditions for a charismatic despot to hoodwink millions of people into believing in the false hope and nationalist exceptionalism he was peddling. We've seen echoes of some of that in Trump as he appealed to the "left behind" and in "make America great again." but the conditions in the country were nowhere near as conducive to his dream of takeover as they were for Hitler. I want to think that Trump's populist shenanigans will prove to be self-limiting and that there will be sufficient outrage and revulsion to prevent anyone like him from getting power again. That will take work in the form of serious public debate and self-examination - and education. I can't think of any American leader in my sentient lifetime that I've been even remotely a fan of, but we now need Joe to give us a few years of calm. And we need to think very carefully about the actions to be taken against Trump. We don't need a fallen hero, or a martyr, constantly stirring it in the background. I don't know what we can do about his dynasty, however. Americans do seem to love their dynasties...


10 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM (#4087342)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Then there's the role of social media. There was a woman on Broadcasting House this morning who I think was saying that the two worlds of old, the social media world and the real world, have, worryingly, merged into one, and she was questioning the unfettered private-enterprise power of the massive social media companies. I didn't hear it properly as I was in the shower at the time, so I'll give it another listen later to make sure I didn't get what she saying arse about face... a bit like me in the shower did I hear you say...?


10 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM (#4087362)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A rose is a rose...
I abbreviate the diverse coalition of trumpers as Nazis.
There are of course KKK spin offs, bible code thumpers, gun nuts (walnut, hazel and pea), militia wannabes, teenagers for the wall, Qanon psychotics, AM radio ss shock jock fans for Rush Limbaugh and others that are in the mob.
It would be better if they were not unified under one Trump 'banner'... Speaking of 'Bannon' he has more than Trump to add to the current state of affairs. If Karl Rove was Bush's brain then Steve Bannon is Trump's brain.

leenia is so right about Pense and the ultimate betrayal he must feel.

I would say more but I have to go save the world... :^/


10 Jan 21 - 08:04 AM (#4087366)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Oh well you can't save te world quickly, it will long hard work like what Mandella did for South Africa. That is still a work in progress but it started with a TRUTH Commission just to air what was happening from all perspectives.
The American Taliban aka Nazis aka Trumpers need to be invited to the table to talk instead of bomb. Yes the sanity challenged need to have leaders at the meetings with Biden.

Its your choice for    CHAOS   OR   COMMUNITY


10 Jan 21 - 08:47 AM (#4087371)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

Dick, who are you quoting in your post of 03.08?


10 Jan 21 - 08:58 AM (#4087372)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman

I am not quoting anyone why should I be?


10 Jan 21 - 09:40 AM (#4087374)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sandman I empathize with your idea about certain types of education shapes minds to be too prone for propoganda. A credo to think for yourself would be worthwhile. At the same time we have to climb upon the shoulders of giants who have developed great truths in order to keep growing.

I have said before, it is more innate for the human mind to be hypnotised than we would expect. Education of an open minded kind will suit us better for this age than the 19th century education that had to support mercantilism. (endless desks of accountants rather than one computer).

^Reality formation is a very plastic and maluable thing. This quality of the mind may have an advantage to the species or not but it has persisted. Knowing this truth is an antibody to the mallevolent abuse of our susceptability.^

I don't know if you have a mind set that hypnosis is a stage or parlor trick or if you understand clinical hypnosis fully.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire if you know what I mean..
This has been my 20 year message and I'm sticking to it based on what I have seen in 20 years as a hypnotist.


10 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM (#4087375)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Perhaps it is easier for you or others to believe that citizens who feel like they have been cheated abd abused all their life by the powers that be, are most prone to be radicalized by propoganda. Its true but I say it goes deeper than that.


10 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM (#4087377)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A terrible way of saying it would be "Psychology trumps philosophy"


10 Jan 21 - 10:37 AM (#4087384)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

I flipped on Fox for a couple minutes. Apparently, the media crack-down on Trump is because radical Democrat (which is all of them, if you listen) are trying to shut down free speech.

This is always what those people who want to incite violence say. "WAAAA - they won't let us tell people to kill those we don't agree with -WAAAAAH!" They were saying this sort of thing happens in "communist China".

Well, sort of. The leader of the country demands loyalists murder enemies of the state. THAT'S what usually happens.

Personally, I wouldn't mind the FBI checking out Fox, but that probably WOULD be a violation of free speech.


10 Jan 21 - 10:47 AM (#4087385)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I also decided to live dangerously and looked in on the Twitter feed of an acquaintance who (alas) was a Trump supporter (I haven't asked lately if he makes a distinction between the GOP and Trump's brand of the party). At any rate, one of his favorite commentators suggested that the horror of having the House, the Senate, and the White House all in Democratic hands for the next two years is unprecedented. Except it isn't. The last time it happened was the first two years of the Obama administration, at which time his work was slowed almost to a stop by the infamous "blue dog Democrats," those Democrats from traditionally GOP states who were so afraid of losing their jobs that they couldn't support the party. After two years the GOP won enough seats to take over leadership in the house and they did the dirty work of opposing the first African American president.

I think the Democrats are in less turmoil amongst themselves right now, but we shall see. They don't have much wiggle room for dissent.


10 Jan 21 - 11:53 AM (#4087390)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump is fortunate. He should count his blessings no matter how few there are. I know those pesky branchs of government like Congress and the Supream Court, Trump could do without, but if he indeed had the kind of government like his pal/lover in Russia and North Korea, he would have been dealt with far more harshly and secretly than back here in the ol US of A.

Let Trump be Trump
in the ash heap of history.
He is not worthy to be
king of the rats

The rat stampede wants safe passage. Individual rats claim "that was then this is now', I didn't know, He must have changed, I didn't see it coming but I wouldn't change a thing, Let my constituancy decide if I did right, I was just following orders-I mean protocol, I aws following FOX.
   
In law there is a measure of a man called the reasonable man. In short if an uneducated impoverished man does the same crime as a well privildged person, the harvard educated person is in a sense more guilty. The "reasonable man" has other meanings as well.


a correction: the other 25th 'like' ammendment for president removal is in the 14th ammendment.


10 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM (#4087393)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

Maggie, they may be forced to talk to each other and compromise. I'd rather they didn't have to, but I don't think it'll be a bad thing. As long as McConnell, and his "we're not going to do our jobs - or anything much at all" - crew are out of power.

I do remember when Democrats COULD have gotten things done, but were too busy fighting amongst themselves.


10 Jan 21 - 12:08 PM (#4087395)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

13% of Republicans polled said Trump should be removed
94% Democrats said Trump should be removed


10 Jan 21 - 01:42 PM (#4087403)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Many republicans are not identifying as such is my conclusion


10 Jan 21 - 02:43 PM (#4087409)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

What's all this last minute dangerous secret mission bollocks then...??????????

LINDELL: TRUMP will be PRESIDENT!


I haven't a clue who these trumpzis are, but wtf...!!!!!


10 Jan 21 - 05:02 PM (#4087418)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

For years the radical right has said The Democrat's Hair is on Fire.
It looks like the D's are rather calm and contemplative and the right is litterally out of their #$!~%*NG minds.

pfr, Mike Lindell is a pillow salesman who with Trump's help tried to sell oleandrin, a toxic poison, as a cure for Covid 19.
To be fair oleandrin is safer than bleach.


10 Jan 21 - 05:19 PM (#4087420)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

OMG, oleandrin??!! Everyone in Oz knows that the oleander tree is toxic. No right minded Australian would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I thought I had heard everything, but that really tops the lot.

Oleander, very pretty and the oleander flower is sweet, but the leaves (and all the rest) of the oleander are impossible to eat.


10 Jan 21 - 05:57 PM (#4087429)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Oleander is a beautiful shrub or small tree that, to me, is the signature plant of the Mediterranean. Like many plants it's poisonous in all its parts. Same can be said about foxgloves, yew, poinsettia, arum lilies, daffodil bulbs, thorn apples, Daphne mezereon, potato leaves and fruits and a host of others. The thing most of them have in common is that you're hardly tempted to eat them. Enjoy them and keep your kids away if it worries you.


10 Jan 21 - 06:20 PM (#4087431)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

A person selling oleandrin as a cure can only be a person who has no concern for the sanctity of human life. IMHO.

Oleandrin is a toxic cardiac glycoside found in the poisonous plant, oleander (Nerium oleander L.).[1] As a main phytochemical of oleander, oleandrin is associated with the toxicity of oleander sap, and has similar properties to digoxin.[1]

Oleander has been used in traditional medicine for its presumed therapeutic purposes, such as for treating cardiac insufficiency. There is no clinical evidence that oleander or its constituents, including oleandrin, are safe or effective. Oleandrin is not approved by regulatory agencies as a prescription drug or dietary supplement.[1]

.....

Toxicity

Oleandrin has been reported to be lethal.[1] In one fatality, the blood concentration of oleandrin and a related cardiac glycoside from the oleander plant was estimated at 20 ng/ml.[9] In practice, there have been adult cases wherein 14-20 oleander leaves (of unknown oleandrin concentration) proved not to be fatal, but also a lethal case of a child that consumed only one leaf.[10]


10 Jan 21 - 06:49 PM (#4087432)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Police Use of Clearview AI's Facial Recognition Tech Spiked After Capitol Raid

    First reported by the New York Times, Clearview AI CEO Hoan Ton-That confirmed to Gizmodo that the app saw a 26% jump in search volume on Jan. 7 compared to its usual weekday averages. Given the aforementioned treasure trove of potential evidence documenting the attack—from live cable news broadcasts to hundreds of images and videos—the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Washington, D.C. police have called for the public’s help in identifying participants. Roughly 2,400 polices agencies nationwide have contracts to use Clearview’s facial recognition software, according to the company, and several of them have reportedly been turning to it to assist federal investigators.

    Detectives at the Miami Police Department are using Clearview’s tech to identify rioters in images and videos of the attack and forwarding suspect leads to the FBI, per the Times. Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that an Alabama police department was also employing Clearview’s tech to ID faces in footage and sending potential matches along to federal investigators.


10 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM (#4087438)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I have two oleanders, both in big pots and both spending the winter in my greenhouse (they'd be killed by the cold otherwise). I can make them flower if I put them in my sunshiny porch in summer. I also have two lantana bushes, another plant that you see all over the Med. They are also poisonous in all their parts. They have to tough out the winter in a sheltered outdoor spot by my front door. I love the Mediterranean and I love to have plants that remind me of my sunny holidays in Spain, Italy and Greece. To date, I'm not aware that anyone has nibbled them or tried to distil out the toxins. Foxgloves grow wild in my garden. I probably cultivate enough digoxin to kill half of Bude, but the bees love the flowers so much that I don't think I'll bother.


10 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM (#4087445)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Useless fact number seventy-twelve: When I was a student I hired out to be a gardener/ landscaper. One of my early jobs was to clear out a hill of oleander and plant it with hypericum. I did not know at the time that the one was poisonous and the other was St. John's Wort. Did get to see hummingbirds mating....I think.


10 Jan 21 - 09:16 PM (#4087447)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Yebbut it almost certainly wasn't THAT St John's wort. It's a big genus is Hypericum.


10 Jan 21 - 11:39 PM (#4087450)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Be nice, limeway, I almost lost my gummint this week!


11 Jan 21 - 12:47 AM (#4087452)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

This story of the January 6 seditious attack on the Capitol is still expanding. This new congress member was live-tweeting the location of Nancy Pelosi while the events were happening.

QAnon congresswoman faces calls for arrest after live-tweeting Nancy Pelosi's location to rioters

    Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), a gun-toting supporter of the QAnon movement, is facing backlash after she was accused of live-tweeting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-CA) location during the attack on Capitol Hill last week.

    Boebert shared the tweet soon after President Donald Trump's supporters stormed the Capitol with deadly results.

    "The Speaker has been removed from the chambers," Boebert wrote.

    Twitter users responded by calling for the freshman representative to be jailed and removed from Congress.

    "@FBIWFO please arrest @laurenboabert for aiding and abetting those who were hunting down @SpeakerPelosi on Jan, 6th by tweeting the Speaker's whereabouts," one person responded. "She's 5ft tall, 100 pounds and carries a Glock (and won't stop telling everyone)."


11 Jan 21 - 06:39 AM (#4087466)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Conservative Republican Sen. Ben Sasse on Trump's delight in the violence- Huffington Post


11 Jan 21 - 08:30 AM (#4087474)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jack Campin

Video of entrance tunnel to the Capitol during the riot

That's the kind of newsgathering I can respect. The photographer worked his way through the crowd right up to the police line. Punctures a few myths:

- there was nothing very odd about the crowd. They weren't inbred freaks, they were normal-looking guys.

- they weren't acting particularly crazy. Very loud but NOWHERE NEAR what you'd see on an average Orange Walk in Glasgow. Nobody shouting violent threats or obscenities.

- with one exception: the group (acting as a coherent unit) who tried rhythmic pushing to use the people in front as a battering ram. They could have caused a Hillsborough-scale catastrophe. What did they think they were going to do, walk in over a carpet of their own side's bodies?

- almost everyone in the crowd must have owned a gun; nobody showed one. Dog in the night time stuff: they had this planned and universally agreed in advance.

One thing that video DOES confirm is how ineffectual the police were. Many different tactics could have stopped the rioters dead - a testudo of shields, tear gas, water cannon, stun grenades. Horatio on the bridge or the 300 Spartans could have done it. The fact that they didn't even try really stinks of collusion (and willingness to sacrifice the officers who got stationed in the front line: you see one of them suffering horribly).


11 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM (#4087479)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I've seen video over and over again of a small force of Capitol Police trying to hold off the large mob in the Capitol bldg. and one of them was murdered in the endeavor so I can't get on board with a blanket condemnation of their performance. There were some bad actors among them and that is being investigated. The FBI warned the CP of the possibility of violence at the demonstration but did little to prevent it. It is their job, the FBI, to deal with threats of domestic terrorism and they came up woefully short in that department. There's plenty of blame to go around and no doubt some will find it's way to the White House for failing to act until things were too far along.


11 Jan 21 - 09:04 AM (#4087481)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: HuwG

As an aside, I read that the Capitol rioter seen walking off with the Speaker's lectern is to be tried in Florida.

I'd love to be the judge who asks "Will your client be taking the stand?"


11 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM (#4087484)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

lol


11 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM (#4087485)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The vanguard of rioting men in body armor and kevlar helmets that quickly reached the Senate chamber with tie hand cuffs are not in that video. Yes some people look normal normaly Jack.


11 Jan 21 - 09:21 AM (#4087488)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Trump loses PGA championship

Ouch! Poor baby.


11 Jan 21 - 09:37 AM (#4087490)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Parler, Facehook, twitter and many private companies are leaving the conspiracy ship but Fox news is doubling down that violent left wingers are killing free speech.
I know free speech does not apply to private business but they are pretending to not know the difference.


11 Jan 21 - 10:05 AM (#4087497)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

The trump militia rioters I've seen interviewed on BBC news and youtube
do not appear to be all moronic rednecks,
but fairly well educated and articulate..

That should be more worrying...???


11 Jan 21 - 02:11 PM (#4087529)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

You would be surprised what repitition reinforcement can do to perfectly normal people. I am not surprised or worried. Many people will get their fix from other media and will abbandon the search or risk radicalization leading to paranoid schizoprenia.


11 Jan 21 - 06:52 PM (#4087551)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

News Flash- Mexico has agreed to pay for the wall and now Canada wants one too.


11 Jan 21 - 08:08 PM (#4087556)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

LOL gilly. I was thinking about the one that might go up around the Capitol!


11 Jan 21 - 08:29 PM (#4087561)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Arnie terminates the proud boys and trump...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck&t=4s&ab_channel=ArnoldSchwarzenegger


11 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM (#4087568)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has ruled out Trump's plan to go golfing in Scotland at the time of the inauguration because a trip into Scotland for golf would not be considered "essential travel" during the pandemic.

Bam! There goes a clever plan, right out the window!


11 Jan 21 - 10:39 PM (#4087569)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. emerging internet rumours..

trump hired mercenaries to lead the revolutionary storming of democratic govt offices...???


12 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM (#4087578)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

Even if Donald is removed, that may not be the end of it. I have just seen a video on the Independent's website of Donald Trump junior before the march on the Capitol on Wednesday, saying he was sending:

"a message to all the Republicans who have not been willing to actually fight ... This gathering should send a message to them; this isn't their Republican Party anymore, this is Donald Trump's Republican party."

That sounds to me as if he was encouraging the marchers to "actually fight". And I note that he said it was Donald Trump's party - he didn't say it was Donald J. Trump's party.


12 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM (#4087591)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, §?1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §?330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)


12 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM (#4087597)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

New England Patriots head coach Bill Bellichick refused the Medal of Freedom from trump with an eloquent statement. Pardon my cynicism but the old coach would have lost his locker room if he'd accepted. Besides, trump has obviously cheapened the award when you consider recent recipients, lackeys Devin Nunez and Jim Jordan.


12 Jan 21 - 07:00 AM (#4087598)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

a minor note in these days of irony:
It strikes me funny that Tik Tok banned the president before the president could ban Tik Tok.


12 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM (#4087601)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

With all this banishment from social media platforms he's no doubt building up a lot of stifled crazy that's sure to burst forth in some manner.


12 Jan 21 - 07:14 AM (#4087603)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

True but exposure to the truth is also more likely to happen in a vacume of the crazy.


12 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM (#4087605)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Reality is glorius and awful but populist fake reality is worse.


12 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM (#4087612)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

Interesting article here, copied from a live feed. I don't know how widely it is being discussed.

John Nichols writes for the Nation on how a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again.

To imagine that Trump will fade away after January 20 requires the denial of everything Americans know about the president’s massive ego, his aversion to being seen as a loser, and his determination to avenge his defeat in the 2020 election.

Added to the Constitution after the Civil War, the 14th Amendment is a blunt instrument, which mandates in its third section: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who … shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Section 5 of the amendment declares, “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

This is why focusing on the 14th Amendment is relevant. As Pulitzer Prize–winning historian Eric Foner reminds us, the House and Senate House could, with a simple majority vote, censure Trump for inciting insurrection and, with the approval of a President Joe Biden, effectively bar Trump from running again for the presidency.

“This can be invoked against anyone who has ever taken an oath to support the Constitution, including the president,” Foner says of the 14th Amendment. “It’s much simpler than impeachment. It is not a judicial proceeding. It’s a political proceeding. It doesn’t involve lawyers or trials. It is simply about qualification for office. You could have one afternoon of debate and a vote.”

Read more details here: The Nation – How a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again


12 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM (#4087622)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

An article regarding section 3 of the 14th amendment by Bruce Ackerman also appeared in the Washington Post this morning.
WaPo
It sounds like a good alternative to Impeachment but there needs to be a thorough investigation into all the wrongdoing of the current administration by Congress and all relevant agencies or we risk seeing another would-be strongman attempt to overthrow our government.


12 Jan 21 - 10:49 AM (#4087625)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As discussed earlier, the 14th has never been used.
It was created as a response to the civil war ending.


12 Jan 21 - 11:57 AM (#4087631)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

Doesn't mean it can't be used now .......... does it?


12 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM (#4087632)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

The drafters of the constitution never foresaw semi auto machine guns either,
but it don't stop amendments being cynically manipulated and distorted to suit partisan 21st century agendas...


12 Jan 21 - 01:38 PM (#4087642)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Trmp has served, is serving, a larger purpose in the same way that America has in the past actually turned sh$t into shinola.

It is not Trmp's fault that he was elected. It is our fault. He was elected by the Constitutional regulations that established the electoral college system. And his folks made the rational argument that that is exactly what they worked for, if a majority vote was required, that would have been their strategy. Instead they worked the political border states which the Democrats assumed was part of their 'blue wall'. They exploited weakness in a perfectly legitimate way according to the Constitution.

You can say with truth that Trmp has been a fault detector. And we got it when we needed it. It is our job to recognize it as such and use what we've learned to fix our system and protect us for the time when the enemies of democracy will be, for want of a better word, competent.

Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire, that stain you can put on your teeth to show where your brush does not get at the plaque. It is a kind of gift you get that you don't want, but if you work it, it will save you.

There's work to do, a lot of work to do.


12 Jan 21 - 01:53 PM (#4087643)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

Interesting comment, robomatic. I did wonder if there might be a new Ammendment to try to limit some of the extremes we have seen. But I can't see what the draft would be. Nor can I see enough states voting for it.


12 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM (#4087656)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

"Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire"
- nice.



"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in and blood from their BLM and Panifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent, stop calling this a march or a rally or a protest. Get ready for war."
- not nice.


12 Jan 21 - 04:30 PM (#4087657)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. apparently we've got it all wrong.. silly us..

trumpzis have obtained absolute indisputable truth
it was antifa to blame,
leading the riot disguised as law abiding trump supporters..

.. trump is innocent...!!!

got it...???

ok...


12 Jan 21 - 04:37 PM (#4087658)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I have smelled pungent blood but thankfully I have never heard blood.

The nazi group even had written rules of engagement as to when to shoot or not.

Last I looked there are 122 Congress people holdng firm onto Trump racism and by association sedition.


12 Jan 21 - 06:01 PM (#4087667)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Yeah, the extremists are still extreme, now with St. girl-who-got-shot.

The RushLimbows are doubling down. They are blaming the victim playing the "whatabout" game and projecting their motivations and emotions onto their opponents.

Really depressing was watching the Sunday talking heads shows interviewing former Trump chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and he was saying how when he was in the White House Trump was reasonable, just 'don't know what happened since I left'... This was unbelievable and reprehensible.

As I'm typing this NPR is going into a special report on the House of Representatives' resolution to issue the second impeachment of Trmp. 1800 Hours East Coast U.S. time.


12 Jan 21 - 07:16 PM (#4087673)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

To to perfectly clear robo is a good man. Contentious but good.

I had a dream that when I woke up I saw Lawrence Fishburn and others standing over me. I was presented with 2 capsules, one red and one blue. Since I always pick the red candy I took the Red one. After some surreal gyrations I found myself with a socket in the back of my neck and enraged that the honorable Donald J Trump had his election stolen.


12 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM (#4087677)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

When I actually woke up I had a lingering feeling that as far as Trump is concerned, in his mind what happaned at the capitol was a peaceful transition of power. He was just getting even.
It coulda been worse despite the lingering seditionists


12 Jan 21 - 07:37 PM (#4087679)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It doesn't seem to be on any of the news networks but I have the Washington Post website up and they're broadcasting it.


12 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM (#4087681)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

broadcasting what?

Anyway I discovred that the TV was on as I slept and republicans were all jusifying the republican party and themselves as they said they would not go quietly into the night but Democrats should Christian forgive and forget, turn the page, let trump be trump, may old acquaintence be forgot and let bygones be bygones.


12 Jan 21 - 07:56 PM (#4087682)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'm watching the vote now. The Repubs voting NAY did so in a hurry. The Democrats are voting slowly.


12 Jan 21 - 08:39 PM (#4087685)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Without SNL (Saturday Night Live) and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, currently on hiatus until February, my go-to television synopsis guy is Steven Colbert. So far he has never been less than appropriate. A couple nights ago he was inspired. If I remember his short pungent take on the Capitol uprising it was:

Old Man 2020: "I'm the worst year ever!"

Young Man 2021: "Hold My Beer!"

Is there current Spitting Image on the east side of the pond?


12 Jan 21 - 08:48 PM (#4087686)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

The vote that Donuel's talking about is a vote to invoke the 25th amendment, which Congress doesn't have a tiny little thing to do with.

Just for show. Just to make sure everybody divides up properly, according to party.


12 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM (#4087687)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The paint has dried but the vote goes on, yawn.

The vote goes on
and the vote goes on
beating all the
bone heads in the brain

If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're spotted in the mob and you lose your fucking job
If you're nazi and you're fired you're disgraced


12 Jan 21 - 09:19 PM (#4087689)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Christ on a bike.


12 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM (#4087690)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

Steve, it's less frustrating to just step around it.


12 Jan 21 - 09:50 PM (#4087691)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

So
stepping carefully around the manic puddle
there are something like five Republicans who say they'll vote to impeach. There is a possibility McConnell may be among them. I hope he DOES vote for impeachment, but it doesn't change my opinion of him. I think he just looks for what will benefit him, and couldn't care less about the public.


13 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM (#4087710)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

But if McConnell DOES vote for impeachment, he will draw unknown numbers of GOP senators with him.


13 Jan 21 - 05:35 AM (#4087712)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

A vote to impeach is a foregone conclusion. A vote to convict in the Senate is a whole nother thing, though I hear that a few Republican senators are thinking of jumping ship...


13 Jan 21 - 06:46 AM (#4087720)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

There are 20 Republican Senators whose term comes to an end in 2022, so they will be campaigning in 2021, I expect. I would not like to predict how they would vote, but I will predict they will think about that very carefully.


13 Jan 21 - 07:29 AM (#4087724)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Impeachment is certain and with McConnell changing his mind, conviction is more likely. The crime is sedition. The real crime is murder - the murder of truth in america.


13 Jan 21 - 07:48 AM (#4087730)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Democrats could become more radicalized in response to the capitol attack response. I hear more of them asking why the capitol police did not shoot more rioters dead. That kind of talk does not help.
Don't take the civil war bait.


13 Jan 21 - 08:22 AM (#4087732)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

alternatives for the Trump lies


13 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM (#4087733)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Moscow Mitch seems to be supporting impeachment which would make a conviction much more likely.

YouTube suspends trump's account joining all his other major social media platforms.

NYT reports trump told Pence that he would be considered a pussy if he didn't violate the Constitution.

The old bastard is careening down the slope in a flaming toboggan, it's about time. Pass the popcorn.


13 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM (#4087735)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Some of the same GOP congressman who tried to disenfranchise millions of voters on Jan. 6 are condemning a 2nd impeachment on the grounds that it would cause disunity. Mind boggling.


13 Jan 21 - 08:49 AM (#4087736)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I found yesterday's letter from the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the troops comforting:

MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE
SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.

[signed]

Mark A. Milley
General, U.S. Army
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

John E. Hyten
General, U.S. Air Force
Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

James C. McConville
General, U.S. Army
Chief of Staff of the Army

David H. Berger
General, U.S. Marine Corps
Commandant of the Marine Corps

Michael M. Gilday
Admiral, U.S. Navy
Chief of Naval Operations

Charles Q. Brown, Jr.
General, U.S. Air Force
Chief of Staff of the Air Force

John W. Raymond
General, U.S. Space Force
Chief of Space Operations

Daniel R. Hokanson
General, U.S. Army
Chief of the National Guard Bureau


13 Jan 21 - 09:13 AM (#4087741)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Flaming tobogin Ha
The wall st journal and McConnll agree trump is impeachable

BEHIND BLUE EYES
No one knows what it's like
To be the bad man
To be the mad man
Behind trump eyes
And no one knows what it's like
To be hated
To be fated to telling only lies
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my golf course seems to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To feel these feelings
Like I do
And I blame you
No one bites back as hard
On their anger
None of my pain and woe
Can show through
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my hotels seem to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To be mistreated, to be defeated
Behind blue eyes
An no…


13 Jan 21 - 10:16 AM (#4087755)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

gilly the memoradum is much likeGen Washington's Newburgh address


13 Jan 21 - 11:00 AM (#4087763)
Subject: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Jack Campin

If Trump can be banned by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and most recently Grindr - what is Mudcat waiting for? This is obviously the current big thing in social media.


13 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM (#4087764)
Subject: RE: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Raggytash

Oh I don't know Jack, it could be quite amusing to see him tussle with some of the sharp minds on here.


13 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM (#4087778)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Jack, jackie, jackums, if you tell mr. trump about a Smithsonsonian saved website like mudcat for which Donald can leave his leavings you are meaner than I thought.


13 Jan 21 - 03:32 PM (#4087794)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Everyone is bailing on Trump now. He's no good to anyone with his seditious cooties.

America's oldest conservative magazine comes out in favor of Trump's impeachment

"In an opinion piece published by The National Review this Wednesday, The Editors of the nation's oldest conservative magazine declared that there is "no doubt that Donald Trump has committed an impeachable offense."

The op-ed stressed that President Trump "urged a crowd to march on the U.S. Capitol and pressure his vice president and Congress to abuse their authority" to overturn a free and fair election that Joe Biden clearly won.

As the mob breached the Capitol, Trump failed to forthrightly tell the rioters to stop, The Editors write, and the violence that ensued was the culmination of Trump's "ceaseless campaign of misinformation meant to delegitimize an American election.""

The rest is at the link.


13 Jan 21 - 04:22 PM (#4087800)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Without an internet platform for Trump to excoriate and deamonize republicans who betray Trump loyalty I predict more than 8 Republicans will see that acts like defecating in the capitol to killing a police officer is the result of Donald's wild mob incitement for months.

Hearing the loyalists 'paraphrase' the incitement speech was hilarious.
"sallyforth good people with love in your heart to the capitol and with boo or yay voice your approval or..." :^}


13 Jan 21 - 08:04 PM (#4087828)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

inside job


13 Jan 21 - 09:34 PM (#4087841)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Representative Pressley's panic button ripped out ahead of blast. Sounds like an inside job, planned ahead.


13 Jan 21 - 09:38 PM (#4087842)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

I can't believe nobody posted that he was impeached for a second time. (Or maybe it was in a different thread?) Ten Republicans voted in favor of impeaching.


13 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM (#4087844)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

SRS, between the cops not doing their job, even helping the mob, and the Repubs taking them on tours and showing the creeps where to find offices, there needs to be a major investigation, and prosecution. Also, every one of those people who objected to the democratic election process should be removed from Congress.

Well. that's my opining for the night.


13 Jan 21 - 09:57 PM (#4087847)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Jeri it was such a forgone conclusion why bother.

Stilly great minds think alike. ;^/ 3 Congress people are reported to have given tours and instructions to insurgents inside the capitol against rules on Jan.5


13 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM (#4087848)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I don't think the Brits here understand the climate here. If you're a Democrat on the hill, death threats means its wednesday. This is new to Republicans now and are acting out of fear for their families and themselves. Intimidation is a norm in the Trump climate change of fear.


13 Jan 21 - 10:40 PM (#4087851)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I think a single Question Time would make the average American leader pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.


14 Jan 21 - 03:39 AM (#4087862)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

I admit I don't fully understand the consequences of being impeached. There is the Senate trial - at some time - which might find him guilty of incitement to sedition. As far as I can tell, that would carry a penalty of up to 20 years imprisonment in normal circumstances if passed in an ordinary court. But all it seems to do in this case is allow further votes on actions like barring from standing again, and the Senate could, in principle, decide not to do that. It does not seem to carry a penalty in its own right.

We had something similar in the UK. Dominic Cummings was found to be in contempt of Parliament. His response was to shrug and say so what? That looks very close to the US position.

Does found being guilty as charged by the Senate carry a penalty in itself?


14 Jan 21 - 04:38 AM (#4087866)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Impeachment is a separate matter from due process of the law of the land, the latter being the way to get him in jail, as with any other citizen. A Senate trial after impeachment is different. If Trump is convicted there, it wouldn't be seen as a punishment, though obviously his reputation would be completely shot. More importantly, the Senate would then have the power to bar him from future office. Of course, conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges. Whether what would probably be a protracted and very public criminal show trial would be in the country's best interests is a moot point, in m'humble.


14 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM (#4087867)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges

You may well be right, but I would not be surprised to hear cries of 'double jeopardy' from his lawyers.

Let's leave Trump out of this as a specific, and consider what 'a President' might do.   You can imagine two extremes: something extremely serious, like personally burning down the House, and the minimum that might be a successful impeachment, say misuse of the Presidential Seal.

If looks to me as if the range of actions available to the Senate after a conviction are the same.


14 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM (#4087868)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

.......... pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.


???

DC


14 Jan 21 - 05:12 AM (#4087870)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Your hard man reputation clearly goes before you, Doug! :-)

The double jeopardy argument doesn't wash. That would apply only to due process of law, which the impeachment process ain't.


14 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM (#4087883)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

DMcG In a nutshell https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/impeachment


14 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM (#4087885)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

Thanks for that, Donuel.


14 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM (#4087886)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A Pardon after a guilty verdict is a different can of worms, and would President Pense then be willing to do so? The federal 'punishment' is removal from office.
A guilty Trump then becomes game for any State prosecution.
Civil Courts csn fine or jail.


14 Jan 21 - 08:14 AM (#4087887)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

It can't just end at trump.
His son, and close allies and enablers, must also somehow face justice.
At the very least
permanent barring from public office and influence..

Trump is a toxic figurehead.
But cutting off the head of the snake does not finish off his malignant legacy.
Other corrupting heads are waiting for their turn to quickly grow back to replace him..

They must be preemptively stopped alongside with trump...


14 Jan 21 - 08:18 AM (#4087888)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Even if the president is impeached and subsequently convicted for abusing their pardon power, the remedy would be limited to removal from office and disqualification from future office. So the individual president is removed from power, but their acts are not undone.
In fact, the CRS noted that some have argued impeachment is “useless against a president . . . who grants controversial pardons in the very last hours of his tenure.” Meaning the president can grant whichever pardons they want just before they leave office and nothing can stop them.

And there are no other ways to stop a presidential pardon either. A footnote in a 1977 William and Mary Law Review paper said, “the pardon remains effective despite removal of the president for issuing it. Once delivered, a pardon cannot be revoked.” And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written.

So, a pardoned person will remain pardoned even if a president is impeached and convicted. Once the paperwork is complete and the person is officially pardoned by the president, there is no precedent for undoing it.

Courts will probably overturn a self pardon.


14 Jan 21 - 08:45 AM (#4087893)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

That's as good a reason as any for rogue dictatorships being swiftly 'remedied'
by the targeted deaths of the dictator, his sons, generals, and regime political & religious leaders...

Something the USA has been ruthlessly effective with in overseas interventions in foreign lands...


14 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM (#4087896)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I agree

The big picture of US politics and leftist economic policy from FDR's NEW DEAL faded away by 1960 with conservatives whittling aqy and regulating away the New Deal. Since then the partys in the US became the same except for civil rights. Tweedle dum and tweedle dee. Monopolies emerged again. We even farmed out child labor. There has been NO true left for 60 years. When the only difference between Dems and Republicans was racial politics, Trump played it up to the max.
...........................
Love me I'm a liberal democrat except for economic policy against blacks - was the reality of institutional racism.
............................
A true FDR left is needed now because of the pandemic depression inequality and wealth poverty chasms. How we get ahead is the challenge in light of the conspiracy population.

Evil genius' got us here and good genius' are needed to get ahead.


Now you know more about US political evolution than 95% of Americans.
Yeah the statistic is my guess :^/


14 Jan 21 - 09:53 AM (#4087899)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

"And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written."

Think how little precedent has been set so far regarding impeached Presidents. This is the fourth time a President has been impeached, and two of those times were Trump. I think the possibility of changing things has to do with WHY he was impeached, and why the pardons should be thrown out.

I don't believe he can pardon himself. AFAIK, no President has ever done that, but the founding fathers definitely didn't have a "get out of jail free" card in mind when they wrote it into the Constitution. It was supposed to be about righting wrongs, and justice.

But I am not a lawyer, and all of the above is opinion/supposition.


14 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM (#4087914)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Most people frown on those who try to put a crown or halo on themselves. The supream Court Justice to preside at Clintons impeachment sewed 5 stars on his robe sleeves to out rank all generals. Impeachments have their improvisational side.


14 Jan 21 - 11:33 AM (#4087922)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

In order to pardon himself, wouldn't he first have to admit that he had done something wrong?


14 Jan 21 - 12:28 PM (#4087932)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

He can stay silent.(if only) He would only be considered guilty by law and pardoned.
Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government.

It will/could come from State Civil courts and monetary suits from corporations, banks, Joe Sixpack etc.


14 Jan 21 - 02:45 PM (#4087950)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government."
You must have a crystal ball because the efficacy of a self-pardon is not a foregone conclusion. The D.C. Attorney General is under the jusridiction of the federal government and he's investigating the speakers who ginned up the crowd before the Jan. 6 insurrection, which include trump. The feds will also be interested in his recorded phone call to the Georgia Sec. of State in which he begged for votes as well as his attempt to coerce Pence into unlawfully overturning the election results. He's nowhere near out of the woods with the feds.


14 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM (#4087951)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"jurisdiction"


14 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM (#4087953)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

As to Jos' question, merely accepting a pardon implies that one has committed unlawful acts. Many a person who has been charged with a crime has refused a pardon because of that implication.


14 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM (#4087985)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Actually to accept a pardon would merely imply that you believed it was likely you might be found guilty, not that you accepted that you were actually guilty. It's different from. The situation where a pardon is offered to someone after they have been found guilty, when a condition of it being offered is tgat guilt is accepted.

I don't suppose it would work to claim that the Senate trial, if successful, was confirming the view of the House that Trump was guilty, and that the verdict should therefore apply from the moment of the impeachment, and that any pardons from that point on would not be valid. Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court. It would be worth trying this anyway.   

I don't think there is any reason to think the supreme court justices slipped in by Trump would feel any obligation to help him. As originists they'd be likely to be trying to channel what the Founding Fathers intended. And it seems pretty obvious the FFs would have seen Trump as a contemptible little man.


14 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM (#4087988)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

McGrath: "Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court."

There have been multiple cases of impeachments that were adjudged guilty, just not presidents. Since there had been only been two previous presidential impeachments -out of 44 presidents- that hardly establishes a set rule.


14 Jan 21 - 06:10 PM (#4087994)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Why can't all these mighty clever and powerful legislators just respond to abnormal current events,
to fast track making new rules setting a precedent
on how to punish an evil wannabe mad dictator president...???

I thought the USA prided itself on being a 'can do' kinda culture...


14 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM (#4087998)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Supream Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people. You can be sure they empathize with Congress and don't want to toy with Donald ever again. The profle of a Justice's courage should not be predicted.

We are on a fast track 'can do' pace.
Legally speaking "intent and state of mind" will be the prominent issues.

ps I do have a crystal ball and a 209 isotope iron nickel meteor.


14 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM (#4088000)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Nixon woulda bin CONvicted bud he quit B-4 the Sinet voted.


14 Jan 21 - 07:06 PM (#4088001)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Supreme Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people"

How so? They've tenure for life. There is nothing Trump could do for them, now or at any future time, short of taking out a contract on them.

They may have needed to suck up to him before they got the gig. But that's past and done. He can't touch them.


14 Jan 21 - 07:42 PM (#4088006)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Even if the Senare failed to convict,, Trump would still be liable to prosecution for his actions on January 6th. And if found guilty the 14th amendment would still be likely to kick in and bar him from running for President in 2024. And it is to be hoped, bang him up for a long time.

Mind you that would be likely to mean Donald Junior, if pardoned by Daddy, running in his place - no doubt waving his copy of Trump's version of Mein Kampf, ghosted for him while he hangs out in a pretty luxurious cell. And Donald Junior if elected might be even worse. For all his faults the President has one redeeming feature - at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid.


14 Jan 21 - 07:59 PM (#4088009)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Considering the hundreds of self-congratulatory tweets he's put up, it's a fair bet that Mike Pence is jostling for position for 2024...

Makes me feel glad that I'm getting old. Pass the cooking sherry and hold the glass.

If the Senate convicts him, that would be a good kicking-off point for charging him with criminal offences. If it doesn't, which still seems the likely outcome, I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock.


14 Jan 21 - 08:02 PM (#4088010)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. and old billionaires should be more likely to drop dead sooner from unhealthy lifestyles..

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast sports activities...


15 Jan 21 - 12:50 AM (#4088026)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

McGrath: "at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid."

Great line!


15 Jan 21 - 03:03 AM (#4088036)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast acting drugs. That might solve the problem.


15 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM (#4088043)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well I'm not big on wishing people dead, etc. First, I feel that such sentiments, if expressed aloud, may diminish us almost to their level, and, in any case, the kind of people we're talking about are a bit like the Lernaean Hydra. Cut them down and two more just as bad spring up in their place. We've already mentioned Pence and Junior...


15 Jan 21 - 06:29 AM (#4088051)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Here's what Yale law professor,William Eskridge Jr. thinks about a self-pardon and trump's ongoing legal jeopardy.
WaPo
Fortunately trump still has a crack lawyer in Rudy, who's been seen around the White House carrying a sign that says "Will Work for Pardon".


15 Jan 21 - 06:49 AM (#4088055)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sitting ducks implies less security than Congress which I believe is about to change. At least I hope so.

Sedition requires intent, planning and coordination.
It sounds open and shut to me.
The air/era of trump impunity is over.
Those who believe the Senate will never convict probably think being chicken shit is innate and that Courage is more rare.
They have a point.


15 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM (#4088059)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It's a question of looking at the current politics and predicting, not believing.


15 Jan 21 - 07:10 AM (#4088061)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Even if there is no conviction in the Senate trump has plenty of legal woes ahead. After Jan. 20 he'll no longer have a lapdog AG and he'll be dealing with a Justice Dept., which is independent of the legislative branch ,that he won't be able to use as a personal defense team, quite the opposite in fact, to say nothing of state and municipal prosecutors that want to have a go at him. Pass the popcorn.


15 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM (#4088063)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

And while you're munching the popcorn, better look over your shoulder. A trial is sure to galvanise an awful lot of those 70-odd million supporters of his.


15 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM (#4088065)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I don't really give a shit about that, when you back down from terrorists where does it stop. I'm more focused on the 80 plus million who voted for Biden and the fact that under trump the GOP lost the midterms, the White House and control of the Senate.


15 Jan 21 - 08:17 AM (#4088076)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

If next week goes peacefully, I think we could have a bit more confidence that things will settle.

Be careful what you charge him with!


15 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM (#4088077)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Legislators and prosecutors need to do their constitutional duty regardless of where it leads, we've had enough lawlessness these past 4 years.


15 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM (#4088078)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The worst scenario is a NYT headline of TRUMP ACQUITED TWICE
A rushed impeachmnt has its risks compared to waiting to see more evidence of collusion with sedition and mob attacks.

Lyndsy Graham says be afraid our mob will get you if you impeach (paraphrase)
But trump is a one trick pony and does not have time to assemble more death marches. If the fascists were going to openly shoot they would have alraedy. That does not preclude cowardly snipers.

Same with the Qanon shaman wearing horns did not stab anyone with his spear.


15 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM (#4088080)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Agreed, Donuel, this can't be a quickie trial. There were reports from White House workers that trump, instead of calling for aid in quelling the riot, was tromping around the place wondering why everyone wasn't more excited about the storming of the Capitol. These people need to be deposed, they can't just rely on trump's pre-riot speech. Fortunately McConnell won't be setting the agenda this time around.


15 Jan 21 - 09:02 AM (#4088082)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

" I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock."

It's all a big mess whatever happens. But the fact that the Senate might fail to support the impeachment need not in any way interfere with a court trial. I can't see how it could be seen as double jeopardy. The impeachment isn't a criminal prosecution. And the difference from the last impeachment is that this time it is pretty evident there will be a majority vote against him, just not enough to reach the two-thirds level.

Getting a jury together might be a bit tricky. I doubt if there are many people in Amerca who haven't pretty firm settled opinions about these issues.


15 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM (#4088084)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

The link Donuel shared makes it fairly clear that the double jeopardy defence would not apply in law, at least in the opinion of Cornell Law School. Whether that would mean Trump's lawyers and any media he still has on side would not claim it "in the court of public opinion" is quite another matter. I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot.


15 Jan 21 - 09:18 AM (#4088089)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot."
Of course it will be but we've got to stop cowering before this would-be dictator if we're ever going to be rid of him.


15 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM (#4088101)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. quick googling suggested the ultimate sentence for sedition in the USA
is death...???

trump has shown himself to be a very enthusiastic supporter for the death penalty..

.. just saying..


Many, many, Americans have been executed for far lesser crimes
than the accumulation trump is guilty of...

.. and if his most fanatical acolytes pledge to sacrifice their lives for him as wannabe civil war martyrs..

That's their choice...


15 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM (#4088103)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

If the Senate trial fails to convict, he couldn't claim double jeopardy as that trial is not related to due process in the criminal justice system, but it would be grist to the mill of Trump and his supporters in the event of a criminal trial. I agree with gillymor about having the courage to go for him fully, but there will be consequences: it keeps him prominently in the public eye for a protracted period - think of the headlines week after week - and it would very likely whip up whatever supporters he would still have by then. I suspect it would still be tens of millions.


15 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM (#4088106)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Ideally, trump and his close allies choose a glorious Alamo style last stand on one of his estates..
Get it over quick, done and dusted..
Start slowly rebuilding the US...

Some worshippers would write the history of his heroic martyrdom.
Most of the world would write him off as a pathetic failed tyrant..

.. adding, trump to the list of saddam, gadafi, bin laden, etc...


15 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM (#4088109)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

PFR,
I know you like to use sarcasm to make your point, but some of your last few posts, on how to get rid of Trump and his close supporters, seem decidedly unpleasant. I am sure you can find some valid points to make without hoping for people's deaths.

DC


15 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM (#4088114)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Doug - Not a time for squeamish moral superiority bollocks..

I am a pacifist, but not an absolutist pacifist.

As a general rule I would prefer not to wish death on anybody.

I am anti death penalty,
but accept there are valid extreme exceptions when it may be a last resort viable pragmatic solution...

trump may be one of them..

The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???


Here's a fun game..

Let's guess trump's response to being told by a higher authority
that he could make things right again
by either sacrificing his own, or his son's life...???


15 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM (#4088115)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Comedic relief can cause some grief
but is worth the needed release

Pense was seconds away from a crossfire and lynching event.
It would have changed the nature of the gallows humor if he had been shot or hung.


15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM (#4088124)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Most people know that the 3rd Reich soldiers took Pervatin (crystal meth) and later oxycodone. It seems the rag tag nazis in America do too.
I wwwould hope they will also use Himmler's little helpers (cyanide)


15 Jan 21 - 11:21 AM (#4088125)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

donald trump, Messianic leader of a death cult...???


15 Jan 21 - 11:36 AM (#4088127)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

trumpzi militia guerillas would be taking semi auto machine guns, hunting rifles, and body armour
to a Drones and Cruise missiles fight...


15 Jan 21 - 11:39 AM (#4088129)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

I'm with Doug Chadwick on refraining from wishing death on others.

According to the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, Mr T's supporters in Congress are claiming that his inflammatory rhetoric is just colourful figurative talk, and it's not his fault certain people took him seriously.

Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead.


15 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM (#4088130)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

pfr
Abraham bound his son Isaac on an altar at Moriah long ago, as he had been instructed by God. An angel stopped Abraham when he was about to slay his son and switched Isaac with a ram!
Donald bound his son Donald on an alter in Maralago, as he had been instructed by Satan. A demon stopped Donald when he was about to slay his son to reverse election results and switched Donald with Donald!


15 Jan 21 - 11:50 AM (#4088132)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

"Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead."

Charmion, we have an expression this side of the pond "in your dreams" which means that is absolutely not going to happen.


15 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM (#4088142)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Repentant is too much to ask for. Humiliated perhaps not.

But what's really needed is to find some way to open the eyes of some of his supporters.   There is always a significant number of people in any society who are basically lost souls when it comes to thee kind of things. But generally they are a relatively small proprtion - call them a fringe, call them a gardcore, but there aren't tgat geat a proprtion.

But what is frightening is that belief in Trumpism and the lies of Trump appear to be actually shared by the large majority of those who voted for Trump. It was easy enough to imagine why people might choose to opt for either of the candidates in both Presidential elections, as in any election, But this kind of brand loyalty is very hard to make sense enough. Hold your nose and vote for what seems like the lesser of two evils - but to actually like and Trust someone like Trump, that is unconceivable.


15 Jan 21 - 12:40 PM (#4088143)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

pfr, your fun game might be more fun if the answer weren't so obvious. :-)


When trump contracted COVID-19 I hoped it would croak him because given his continuing disinterest in dealing with the virus as a public health issue his death would have saved a lot of innocent lives and we wouldn't be in this dire situation now. When and how he sheds this mortal coil is now of no consequence to me as long as he's gone.
A Pew Poll conducted from Jan.8-12 has him a at a 29% approval rating, the lowest of his term with a note worthy decline among Republicans.


15 Jan 21 - 12:42 PM (#4088144)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'm glad the Nurmemburg trials didn't sentence Goering to humilliation, atonement and repentance.
Nazi sympathsizers and white supremists come in many flavors I guess.
Or am I being too harsh on Rudy and friends?
Kids torn from their parents and put in barb wire camps have still not been reunited.


15 Jan 21 - 12:49 PM (#4088148)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

The ? in my last post was meant to be a smiley face.


They don't show; I edited in a text version of it for you. ;-) ---mudelf


15 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM (#4088152)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Thanks, elf.


15 Jan 21 - 02:16 PM (#4088157)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

It's quite handy trump decreed Guantanamo Bay should remain open for business..

But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp...


15 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM (#4088159)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

They need to close Guantanamo and use the prisons for people who really need to be in there (Trump domestic terrorists) now that they will hopefully release those charged wtih minor drug offenses that were way over-prosecuted.


15 Jan 21 - 02:37 PM (#4088160)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

pfr said, "The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???"

But, what's the probability of Trump being able to stay out of trouble and keep his big mouth shut for any length of time, let alone the rest of his life. And as leeneia said, the Hydra effect would kick in and the Trump sprogs would kickstart their political careers.

As Raggytash said about seeing "Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant" those two responses are not in a sociopath's repertoire.

And pfr, "But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp... " don't forget to factor in the superspreader events facilitated by Trump for his massive fan base. Sadly, the massive fan base might be drastically reducing day by day and the blame for that lies squarely in Trump's lap.


15 Jan 21 - 03:21 PM (#4088162)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Helen - yeah.. trump's larger mass scale equivalent of the cult poison suicide Jonestown Massacre..

..or if he goes for the 'Alamo option'.. the Waco siege...


15 Jan 21 - 03:25 PM (#4088163)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

Trump is like all bullies, he is a coward. He will never put himself in physical danger.

He might put his wife or his children in that position but never himself.


15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM (#4088164)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

As witnessed, Raggytash, by the fact that Trump said he would be there with them at the Capitol and then held a big party and watched it all on television and delayed calling in the National Guard until Mike Pence finally did it.

Yep, pfr, very similar to the Jonestown massacre.

I always knew Trump was stupid, but how stupid is it to kill off your own fan base by denying that the virus is real and deliberately putting them in danger? I don't think rational thinking is in his repertoire either.


15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM (#4088169)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Who are the extremist rioters?

They are extremely varied-
Qanon- a virtual religious cult of Trump prophecies and magical thinking
Nazis- are under diffrent titles; boogaloo boys, proud boys and KKK spin offs
Tea party mutants- people who had truth decay from the start and evolved into predators
Religious right- From Jerry Falwell to Bob Jones protestant graduates
2nd Amendment fans- Paranoid since Obama who prefer Sandy Hooks to gun control
Rush Limbaugh veterans- People who always hated women and others smarter than themselves
Typical racists- Exploiters and folks secretly envious of blacks
Militias- 1%'s, oath keepers and lodges that play soldier on weekends.
AK 47 - enthusiasts looking for a reason

There are others of course but the main thing is that they do not get along with each other or authorities.

Americans- Exposed to media that shapes their hate strategicly


15 Jan 21 - 03:55 PM (#4088170)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Like ancient world god-like emperors
decreeing their families, servants, soldiers, horses, and dogs
be entombed with them
when they die...


15 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM (#4088174)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Now the old dickhead wants a military send-off on inauguration day and I think we should give it to him. Strap him to an ICBM, point it towards Mar a Lago and start the countdown.


15 Jan 21 - 04:33 PM (#4088177)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Really? What happened to tar & feathers and a rail?

I like parades!


15 Jan 21 - 08:36 PM (#4088211)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is a definate over reaction show of force in DC.
There is also a over reaction by Fox News accusing Democrats of lies, riots and a plan to frame Trump. btw they say lockdowns are a lie and don't work. who knew

what happened to tar and feathers?


15 Jan 21 - 10:32 PM (#4088221)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Doug Chadwick:

My reference to "pull 'is own 'ead off rather than see Doug" was a reference to an old Monty Python sketch on how non-desirous a criminal was to have to answer to the master criminal Doug Piranha who used...............sarcasm. "'E knew all the tricks, metaphor, pathos, pun, litotes, and satire!"

The regular practise of Question Time seems to be somewhat more erudite and brassy than American legislators are wont to endure in modern times. The mastery both questioner and PM have to have to endure this swift repartee seems to be well beyond what puffed up yankee solons can view with impunity.

As to harsh desires some of us may have regarding our outgoing President and his 'sisters and his cousins and his aunts' (That's a Gilbert and Sullivan reference). some of you might enjoy the recent "Squeeze Me" novel by Carl Hiaasen in which the Current Occupant runs into problems on his golf resort when large burmese pythons begin to show up, apparently by invitation, to embarrass him and his supporters, to say the least.

In the meantime, yesterday I got my first covid vaccine shot from an Anchorage school system nurse. Reported on in the vaccine thread.


16 Jan 21 - 05:01 AM (#4088234)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

Thanks Robo.

DC


16 Jan 21 - 05:48 AM (#4088245)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs

So the last execution has taken place under fucking shit trump, of a man convicted 24 years ago, which is cruelty beyond belief.


16 Jan 21 - 06:08 AM (#4088247)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

For once, Bonz, we are in agreement.


16 Jan 21 - 07:51 AM (#4088263)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Protest and dissent is at a new low. Dissent merchandise sold on the internet are things like small buttons that say "science is real"
How provocative is that?

operation warp speed should be called warped greed.
There are no US government reserve vaccines left.


16 Jan 21 - 08:05 AM (#4088266)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump is so virulent he got a second dose of impeachment this week just like the
Covid vaccine.


16 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM (#4088270)
Subject: RE: BS: A very important post
From: Donuel

IF TRUMP CAN RESPOND TO A NATIONAL EMERGENCY he could declare a National emergency and thus impose martial law keeping Biden from assuming control.
This is why there is an overwhelming presence of national guard in DC so a national emergency of riots can not take place.
There is chatter and intelligence to support this scenario.
Mike Lindell was at the White House yesterday and supports the martial law plan according to the Washington Post.
Because Trump's Plan A failed to kill lawmakers on DC a second wave of Inauguration riots seems like plan b.
I don't know if a hypothetical takeover of the Madison Wisconsin capitol building would be enough to justify National Emergency martial law.


16 Jan 21 - 10:31 AM (#4088291)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Donuel's list of 15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM has been in the news the last couple of days as prosecutors and FBI and various state investigators track down hundreds of offenders from the January 6 assault on the Capitol. News of each of their raisons d'être as they are arrested is disheartening. So many nasty groups out there, all unleashed and energized by the cretin Trump.

If that is what the makeup of the Republican party is now, there won't be a quick return to normal for the good people who did a yeoman's job of bashing Trump with the Lincoln Project. As I listened to them talk in interviews I was aware that once Trump is out, they would restore the GOP to it's old self - but now it's looking like that won't be so easy.

On my radio just now - "Pompeo spoke on Voice of America recently . . ." damn, that's another broken agency. Trump's folks trashed it into a horrible source of vitriol for the world, no news or leading by example. One more thing for the "to do" list.


16 Jan 21 - 10:42 AM (#4088293)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

donald trump.. Public Enemy No. 1...


16 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM (#4088301)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Don't forget the radicalization process was invented by Facebook with alogorhythems that refeed one point of view to maximize their advertising dollar. It is imo the biggest richest enabler.


16 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM (#4088304)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

"Fascistbook"...

A too easy pun, which is no longer just a glib smartarse remark...


16 Jan 21 - 11:13 AM (#4088305)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Even Luxemburg won't allow Pompeo to visit for 'state dept talks'.


16 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM (#4088306)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

When does the rest of the world get to declare the USA a rogue failed state,
and send in military peace keeping missions...???

.. at least it's been proven beyond doubt America has stockpiled WMD...


17 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM (#4088379)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

One thing that feeds into the ability of some seemingly rational people to hold on to the Steal lie is maybe that the allegations have been so over the top that they've been rejected by courts out of hand. When the rogue congress members called for a commission to examine fraud allegations, they may have been insincere, but it might have been a good idea to take them up on it, but require that such a commission should take place after the inauguration of Biden.

Clearly there's a case for examining the whole business of how elections are carried out in the states. There have to be some limits on the ability of states to make voting harder for some people by restricting the number of polling sites and so forth. Unpacking allegations of voting fraud would fit well within that context. (In fact I believe it is common practice in many democracies to examine that kind of thing after elections.

I don't suggest that the hardcore Trumpists would waver in the face of the strongest evidence that they've been lied to, but I can"t believe 75 million Americans are all irredeemably insane.


17 Jan 21 - 02:55 AM (#4088381)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

I don't think they were all insane either Kevin. Any more than the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit were insane either. They do have one thing in common. They were conned by populist lies. Not to say they were easily fooled either. The conmen, led by Trump and Johnson, are very good at it. They tell people what they want to hear and are very convincing. They were supported by mainstream media and well funded. It is the manipulation of politics by outside influences that needs to stop. In my opnion.


17 Jan 21 - 05:46 AM (#4088394)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The millions who voted for Trump/Johnson/brexit were all the more easily manipulated because of the lack of political education. In a proper democracy it's crucial that the voters are made more resilient to wily politicians who pretend that their simple promises are the way to run the country. I'd hasten to add that a politician has to be wily in order to survive, but being wily doesn't mean being a liar, and a well-educated electorate would the more easily be able to see the difference. Of course, as soon as you advocate political education (by which I emphatically do not mean "citizenship" education) you're labelled a commie, a red under the bed, a raving leftie revolutionary... .


17 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM (#4088412)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

One encouraging thing I heard on TV news - it was reported that it's claimed that since Trump got shutout of his internet megaphone sites, the number of his type of conspiracist posts about the "election steal" and so forth has gone down by no less than 70%. Not just his tweets but other people reposting them etc.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that, it doesn't sound like hard info, more of an impression - butit's still encouraging, and we need encouragement now if we ever did.

I'm reminded of the story of Dr John Snow and the Broad Street Pump, in a cholera outbreak in1854. Cutting off a source of pollutioncan have dramatic effects.


17 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM (#4088428)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Kevin it may sound unintuitive to you at first but there is a real phenomenon in which 'the bigger the lie - the more believable'.
This realization came to light here during the Nixon administration.
The BIG lie has a lifetime but is quite robust. People react to the big lie in a rationalization that something so outrageous has to be true because no one would make up something that bizzare.
Combine this with a truth like racism and you have a powerful hybrid lie. Yes you may see this phenomenon at work in your own country.

pfr if you hate the 'US' that much so be it. If you are only expressing shaudenfreude you might be 'happiier than a pig in shit'.


17 Jan 21 - 11:40 AM (#4088430)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

But for the most part you are right. I can't deny it is as crazy and destructive as you say.


17 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM (#4088433)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Don, I don’t believe that any of us here hate the US, but I do think that many, perhaps most, of us hate the image of the US that 45 and his cabal have presented to the world over the past five years.

I worked for an American company, and with Americans, for thirteen years, and I know that Americans aren’t all ‘like that’.


17 Jan 21 - 12:06 PM (#4088438)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

McGrath of Harlow, the Dr John Snow story is a good example of identifying the source of a problem and standing up for the evidence against people who denied the facts in favour of their beliefs. I saw a documentary on TV about that. Thanks.

And I don't think anyone here is happy to see the cracks in the US political system, except that if it is now so broken it might become obvious to the people in power that it needs to be re-jigged into something more robust i.e. an electoral system which can withstand attacks on its integrity from someone like Trump who doesn't have a moral compass.


17 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM (#4088459)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Donny - Wow..

Whatever makes you think I am an Americanist...!!!???

I could never be Americaphobic, some of my best virtual friends are Americans..

I'd even let my daughter marry an American.. [Disclosure: I don't have any children..}

I don't hate America, there's much about the culture I love maybe even more than Britain..

No, what I am is angry with and afraid of America.

I quite reasonably fear America as a bigger real threat than either Putin, or China..
.. or perhaps even Israel and North Korea..

Ok.. Maybe the USA is still only second behind IS!S.. but up until Biden's win,
even that was debatable...


17 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM (#4088471)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

I think Americans are sometimes very starry eyes about the extent to which people in other countries see them as an inspiration, rather than a warning. Rapturous words about how it's seen as "a shining city on a hill" and so forth.

It's much more complicated than that. Along with an appetite for a slice of the cake and an appreciation of and genuine affection for of many aspects of the culture there's an irritation at the way these often seem to take over the world. When things go wrong for America the rest of the world's reaction includes a measure of satisfaction.

There's nothing unusual in this - much the same was equally true of the British Empire in its pomp, and even today by many. But I get the impression Americans may be more prone to believing their national myths.


17 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM (#4088493)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Almost any criticism of 'Americans' fits... IF you put **some** in front of it. It is far too easy to spin a broad generalization of both the USA and 'what the rest of the world' thinks about us.
   This 4 years has been embarrassing to most of us...including many who voted for his Trumpness out of some hope his brash talk meant something. The excessive support for the idiocy he brought has exposed...more than usual... a lot of the racism and hate that still exists. It let them come out into the open more.
   The thing is, the basic idea(s) in the Declaration and Constitution are still operable and allowing us to begin recovery after learning a sad lesson.
   Soon.. 3 days.. we will have a president and congress tilted the other way, with cabinet members and a judiciary made up of competent, sane and dedicated people. In all my years, I have never seen so many appointments that were not based on political favoritism!
It will be tense as Biden & Co. try to correct things in 2 years..before another nervous election mess.... but plans are being made.

   You folks who...rightly... decry the mess we have made, keep making comments (as if I could stop you!) but don't judge too harshly until you see how it goes.
If Georgia can make progress, can Alabama be far behind?? Oh... maybe that's too much to hope for....
Still... *shrug*


17 Jan 21 - 06:40 PM (#4088500)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Thanks Bill D. My comments about re-working the electoral system were more about the electoral college system.

One person, one vote is the system in Australia and it seems to work well. Also, not having a presidential system means that a disproportionate amount of power does not rest on one person. It is spread across the whole political party which won the election, or in some cases, if there were a couple or a few political parties which won a lot of votes, there has to be negotiation between the parties in power. Donations to political parties is very heavily regulated and the big political rallies are not as over the top as the U.S. events. We also have some big media/broadcasting organisations which pride themselves on balanced, evidence-based reporting. We do still have the nut-job media and personalities, but that is usually balanced out by the more rational broadcasting and news organisations.

Most of the time we don't have a lot of political bickering and name calling, although we do have our moments.


17 Jan 21 - 09:08 PM (#4088520)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Hmm. You still managed to elect Tony Abbott... :-)


17 Jan 21 - 09:11 PM (#4088522)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I feel shock , sadness and shame for the country. I can believe that many will gloat at our misfortune. While I have written that I was seeing a coming civil war for the last 20 years i was still surprised by the attack.

45% of Republicans support or defend the attack, Insurrection is becoming a sport and even have pre attack news shows on TV. Until states seceed it is a sport for amateurs. Republicans would be better off if Trump could never run again. It would give them a better chance to lead the rabble in 2024. Niki Haley has that sense but not Ted Cruz.


17 Jan 21 - 11:38 PM (#4088531)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

"If Georgia can make progress, can Alabama be far behind?? Oh... maybe that's too much to hope for..."

Bill D, have you ever been to Alabama? I mean for a long time, like two weeks? I bet not.

My husband worked in rural Alabama for months and months, and he found most people there to be gentle, unsophisticated and friendly. Like many rural Americans, they are poor, looked down on, don't know how to get out of poverty, and are beset by alcohol, meth and opioids.

Small wonder that a wiley politician with a captive TV network promised them salvation and they believed it. Remarks like yours only make the situation worse.


18 Jan 21 - 12:07 AM (#4088535)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I predict a rough week ahead. People who bet probably have money on whether Trump will 1) pardon various of his criminal associates 2) pardon seditious rioters or 3) pardon himself.

The lunatic fringe is armed these days and have military tactics and training. Here's hoping they all decide to stay home.


18 Jan 21 - 06:20 AM (#4088553)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Any news on how the ‘Armed March on Capitol Hill and All State Capitols’ which we’ve seen being touted around social media went off yesterday?


18 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM (#4088560)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Happy MLK DAY - assasinated by the right along with Malcome X, JFK, RFK...
That suceeded in virtually silencing the left until BLM
Assasination politics has returned. Trump's inability to hire competant people was his downfall.
There is now proof the White House paid between 10 grand and 20 grand to organizers of the January 6 coup.


18 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM (#4088566)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

BW, it seems things were kind of quiet yesterday and banning trump from most social media platforms probably had a lot to do with it but we still have a few days until he slithers out of D.C., without the big military send-off he was begging for.

USA Today has a protest tracker that they periodically update.


18 Jan 21 - 07:49 AM (#4088569)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I may not get to the promised land of truth with you but I promise you will get to the promised land where people realize they were fooled by lies. The big lie will die. The algorithem lie cycle will change. Even the atom sized lie about me and you will pass away.


18 Jan 21 - 12:15 PM (#4088620)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

leenia.... no, I have not been to Alabama. I HAVE been to Mississippi for two weeks....in 1964, on a voting rights march.
I'm assuming the nice, gentle people you dealt with in Alabama didn't view you as an "outside agitator" who was there to threaten their fundamental beliefs about racial equality. I was at that time living in Kansas, and rural folks there did not conduct lynchings... but it was best to be careful about your politics.

My extensive reading about progress & politics since 1964 has shown me that Mississippi has made more progress than Alabama. The town that I visited back then now has a black mayor. In 1964, I was threatened by the sheriff and police. Alabama is still electing people like Tommy Tubberville.

   In almost any place in the country, rural folk are 'generally' hard-working, friendly people who will help you and share with you... unless you are there to poke at their core prejudices.

Progress is slow... but much slower in many areas of the South. Georgia has made obvious progress... but 2 weeks in Alabama would test my ability to stay out of conflict.


18 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM (#4088628)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Helen.. I too view the electoral college system as an outdated anachronism that hamstrings fair presidential voting.

The problem is, getting rid of it would take a Constitutional amendment that not enough Southern states would support. Many of our problems are related to our basic **states rights** setup. In most countries there are things that can be done by vote or decree for the entire country.... here, on many matters, each state can opt out and write its own rules. Joe Biden plans to issue a mask mandate on Wednesday, but it will only apply to federal buildings and workers.

230+ years of our history are both an asset and a hindrance to certain types of progress.


18 Jan 21 - 01:00 PM (#4088631)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Yes, Bill D, I'm beginning to see how difficult it would be to make changes to the electoral college system.

One big benefit of living in the technological communication age is that the state results were known nationally and internationally as soon as the votes were tallied so it would be extremely difficult to tamper with the results. Compare that with the horse-and-buggy days and it's a completely different ballgame.

And gillymor, I was trying to think of some relevant and pointed music that the military style band could play to see him out.

Send in the Clowns? The classic silly circus tune, Entry of the Gladiators? Or maybe some of the best music of all time, songs by the great African American musicians like Louis Armstrong's When the Saints Go Marching In, or What Did I Do To Be So Black And Blue? or Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen or Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.


18 Jan 21 - 01:17 PM (#4088632)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

To be clear, I thought of the song What Did I Do To Be So Black And Blue? because I think it is one of the most poignant lyrical expressions of the effects of racism that I have ever heard, so I think it would be the most appropriate last barb at a self-proclaimed racist's farewell.


18 Jan 21 - 04:25 PM (#4088655)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The Electoral College was in place to help slave-holding states remain slave-holding states. It's way past time for it to go.

Trump is rude right up to the end as far as being gracious to the Bidens in the transition. Interesting article about the move out and the move in at the White House.


18 Jan 21 - 05:15 PM (#4088662)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Hey Bill did you know Kansas was named after the Kaw tribe?
I think the 1st native american VP was 1/2 Kaw.

Trump's legal jeopardy grows as rioters blame Trump for their involvement.


18 Jan 21 - 05:37 PM (#4088667)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I haven't seen this in the news but my Hubby said that the rioters are going to demand legal costs from Trump because he is responsible. Now *that* will be an interesting story! I wonder how that's going to play out.


18 Jan 21 - 07:32 PM (#4088681)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Don... the 'Kaw' was a shortened form of the Kanza .. there were many tribes whose names were muddled by early historians.

In Kansas, I knew several members of various tribes. The most notable was Blackbear Bosin who was also a photographer and showed me some things..he designed The_Keeper of the Plains, which I watched being constructed.
But in Lawrence, I worked with several Kickapoo, like Don Wenenis and Virgil Shoptese, who were forklift operators at a Stokely-Van Camp warehouse, and a couple of the nicest guys you'd ever want to know.

More here

...and Wichita itself was named for one tribe.


18 Jan 21 - 09:31 PM (#4088706)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

It's just not true that it would take a Constitutional Amendment to effectively get rid of the problem with the Electoral College. To formally abolish the College would need a Constitutional Amendment, that¡s true, but there's another way that's almost in reach.

A good number of states, some of the Red, have agreed to the National Popular Vote Interstate Concord, which means that all their electoral college members would be legally bound to vote for the candidate who got most votes, but with that only kicking in once the number of electors Bound in that way reaches 270.

At present states with 196 electoral college votes are committed to that, but in a number of other states at least one part of the legislature has voted in favour, and the other has not rejected it. They would bring the number well above the crucial 270 votes.

It sounds to me as if there could be a realistic possibility of this being achieved within the next four years.


19 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM (#4088776)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

McGrath you are remarkably well informed

Bill a native american calmness seems imbued in your stature.
The Kickapoo exist from the great lakes to Mexico so naturally I wandered in their territory in my lifetime. Americans are deliberatly not introduced to native americans in public school. At most I share a common enemy, white supremists.


19 Jan 21 - 09:43 AM (#4088779)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

In the law stretching tradition of Trump the remaining pardons to come are not required by law to be made public.
Secret pardons was something I never considered either.


19 Jan 21 - 01:45 PM (#4088816)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

An interesting article By Zac Gardner in Oz ABC News.

With the US Capitol attacks,
domestic terrorism in America has exploded into the mainstream

I'm sure Trump would not be happy about this statement, and it puts a different spin on the whole Capitol event:

"Extremist groups have spent years preparing for the next "American revolution" — and they've used Donald Trump more than he has used them.

"This is something they would have tried to do no matter who was president: they just saw an opening with him, and they took it."


19 Jan 21 - 02:19 PM (#4088823)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Without Trump they wouldn't have had a sea of mugs to swim in. And they wouldn't have had a Congress building set up for mostly easy entry, with the National Guard kept out of the way till they'd had time to do the necessary.

The mercy is that they were such incompetent terrorists. ISIS would have wiped the floor with these lads. They couldn't even manage the prayers properly.   But they'll learn. Next time they won't have such a cooperative management perhaps, but they'll be back.

I suspect that the genuine resistance shown by some of those defending Congress wasn't supposed to have happened. But I doubt if that will come out.

There are some genuine conspiracies.


19 Jan 21 - 02:33 PM (#4088826)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I'm hearing breaking news stories now that a man from Ohio, a member of the "Oath Keepers," has been identified as one of the ringleaders of the assault on the Capitol on January 6. More information will certainly follow.


19 Jan 21 - 03:30 PM (#4088832)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Well, I hope that time spent party-planning means inadequate time to free Trmp's personal miscreants, but he probably has people preparing the paperwork for that. But maybe they are as error prone as himself. I heard a story that there were some recent appointments to the security apparatus which kinda hinted that there would be folks who would demand to see secret files and so would be enabled to sell same. There, now I've contributed to the anti-Trmp rumor mill.

Not a rumor?: Apparently a woman was trying to find out how to send (or sell?) House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's pilfered laptop, from the Capitol invasion of 6 Jan, to Russia.

I couldn't make this stuff up. But I'm gonna check it out.


19 Jan 21 - 03:49 PM (#4088836)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Yes, a woman in Pennsylvania told a former boyfriend that she had Nancy Pelosi's laptop computer that she planned to ship to Russia. I don't know where the computer is but she apparently turned herself in.

Pelosi wrote to the NSA folks (or one of those high-level security agencies) and asked them not to install the inexperienced boob pushed forward by Trump and the (I kid you not) "My Pillow" guy.

There will have to be a lot of reassigning if they can't fire some of the ticks embedded in the body politic by Trump. A good place to start is with DeJoy and that board of governors at the post office.


19 Jan 21 - 04:31 PM (#4088840)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Extract from the Guardian's latest weekly letter to its supporters (which include me):

...And hot on the heels of all this, we are likely to see the spectacle of Donald Trump’s unprecedented second impeachment trial. There is debate over whether the Senate can even hold a trial for an ex-president. Republican Sen. Tom Cotton, says: “The Founders designed the impeachment process as a way to remove officeholders from public office — not an inquest against private citizens.” Steve Vladeck, a University of Texas law professor, disagrees, saying the Constitution doesn’t just provide for removal but also for the Senate to bar that former president from ever holding federal office again. Watch this space …

Discuss, yanks, leaving your wishes to one side...


19 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM (#4088850)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Robo in the begining of the end of Trump's bid to be President for life, YOU WON. Institutions win. But ya gotta admit , it was damn close - seconds in fact.
He almost pulled off a coup as inept as he is.
I checked The Congressional Research and found a yes and no answer to secret pardons. They can be secret but a FOIA request might find them.
Also the recipent would have to have something akin to a get out of jail card. The most ponderous lengthy boring law is the APA administrative procedures Act. I don't have 20 years to fine tooth comb that tome. It could even say steve is a wanker but who could find it. Brits discuss. If Donald has a big mac heart attack and fails to submit the pardons, then what? ;^0

Leonard Cohen Hallluya was chosen for the Covid 19 memorial with the Bidens tonight.


19 Jan 21 - 05:54 PM (#4088852)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I do keep returning to the concept that "the opposite of love is not hate but indifference."

The one thing that the great majority of blue voters, red voters, and east of the pond onlookers have in common is that WE CARE.

That may not seem like much, but it might be the only thing we can build upon. The trick is not to kill each other in working this out.


19 Jan 21 - 06:17 PM (#4088855)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"It could even say steve is a wanker but who could find it.'

Far more likely to say that Donuel is a little gobshite, probably in easy-to-spot headline capitals, I should have thought.

I can't see much appetite for reviving the idea of a Senate trial in a hundred days, I suspect, though that would be the only way - unless you know better - of ensuring that he couldn't stand again in 2024. Well, another way would be for the Republican Party to come up with a stronger and saner candidate...I haven't studied how that works...


19 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM (#4088861)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As shit heads go you are a lovable one.
Gob shites who write this above the line are not lovable: "There was no African-American population, of any status, to speak of until the 20th century. Slavery was a political/moral abstraction tied to U.S. Statehood and a non-starter everywhere".
There are even mods who have fascist proclivities. Those guys are wrong but you are seldom wrong. Few people read as carefully as you.

When I look at the mobs in the capitol I see the great grand children of Indian killers and the descendants of massacre and lynch mobs of 1900.


19 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM (#4088863)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Or was that indiference?
oh well.


19 Jan 21 - 08:01 PM (#4088867)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

If, after confirming the impeachment, the Senate voted to bar Trump that would of course stop him running for president in 2024. But that's not the only way.

There's a strong case for arguing that he's already barred from doing that under the 14th Amendment. Whether that applies would need to be determined, ultimately in the Supreme Court. That could come through a case against him for his role leading up to January 6th and on that day.   If there was no such proceeding it would be likely to arise any time he starts to campaign for President.

Even if theSenate fails to muster enough votes against him to convict, that would in no way amount to an acquittal of the criminal charge of supporting insurrection.


19 Jan 21 - 09:10 PM (#4088870)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The charge that can be brought against him in the Senate can't be regarded as a criminal charge. If he's convicted in the Senate, which seems very unlikely, the Senate may then decide to bar him from future office. Apart from the obvious besmirching of whatever shredded reputation he still has, that would be about it. Any further steps, to convict him of a criminal offence, would have to go through the same process as anyone else would. As for the 14th Amendment, the processes that would be needed to bar him are not in place, and it's likely that Congress would have to pass new laws, then indict him, then try him... They could theoretically bar him, once that's all done and dusted, with a simple majority in each house. But you need to have the processes in place and you have to accept that he would have the right of appeal, which he would take as far as he could. It's very messy. Making Amendment 14 useful for circumstances such as the current ones would be far better sorted out in calmer times. As with changing the electoral college, it looks like pie in the sky. Come back exile. All is forgiven...


20 Jan 21 - 12:58 AM (#4088879)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Well the true bar for Trump would have been, should have been, the Republican Party.



The entire world is beset with demogogues and autocrats usurping democracies:
India
Poland
Hungary
Russia (they were trying for a democracy for the second time in a hundred years).
Turkey
Phillipines

Most of these leaders have been genuinely, for want of a better word, elected.

And then there's Venezuela.

The EIU Democracy Index now rates the United States as a "flawed' democracy, but at least we're ahead of Botswana.


20 Jan 21 - 03:25 AM (#4088882)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

Giving a pardon to Steve Bannon seems a tactical error to me. His crime was essentially stealing the money Trump supporters sent in to pay for The Wall. That means it directly affects Trump supporters and says to them that "Stealing from you is no big deal." Most other pardons are more remote from individual voters but that one can be taken as a personal insult to Trump supporters. Thar's a risky game.


20 Jan 21 - 04:03 AM (#4088885)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

You've got the wrong country, robomatic. Botswana appears to be a model democracy from all I've heard. I suspect maybe you might have meant its neighbour Zimbabwe, which isn't.
..................
The 14th Amendment didn't lay down any procedures for determining that someone qualified. I would think that that automatically means that the responsibility for determining it would ultimately lie with the courts, as with any other criminal act. I can't imagine that if Trump seeks to run there won't be an effort to challenge his right to do so through the courts. That would especially so if there was any question of his being entitled to any public .

Here is what I'm referring to.


20 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM (#4088886)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Page not found, Kevin.

I fear that waiting until he tried to stand again for office before acting would considerably weaken the case against him. "Why didn't you go for him straight away?" would be a bit of a bugger to answer... On the other hand, failed attempts now, or attempts that got mired for months or years in the courts, would be just as bad. He isn't necessarily in a weak position, and that needs to be recognised.


20 Jan 21 - 06:10 AM (#4088895)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You'd have to be a pretty dedicated Brit observer of US politics before you could get your head around the labyrinthine US system of caucuses/open and closed primaries/ conventions for choosing your presidential candidates. I've heard of a few small, or not so small, voices within the GOP lamenting what's happened to the party and calling for a reset. I'd like to hear from you savvy yanks whether you think there could be enough groundswell in the party to preclude him from standing again (obviating the need for congressional processes, which are in danger of failing, to remove the possibility), or whether there could still be too much popular support for him, thereby sweeping away those doubts. Again, it's always best in these debates to leave your personal wishes at the door...


20 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM (#4088896)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

Is the Republican party torn by internal division? We can only hope our Tories will go the same way but, for now, that seems to be the prerogative of the Labour party!


20 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM (#4088900)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It's a bit like when there's plenty of money in the bank, Dave (not that I'd know). Little crises that might cause splits can be overridden. Money-in-the-bank for the Tories is their big majority. If they were to lose most or all of that majority next time round, there would be splits, but whether that would be enough to wreck 'em kind of hinges on Labour not having even bigger splits...


20 Jan 21 - 07:03 AM (#4088909)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Funny though, isn’t it Steve, that when I appeal for unity in the Labour Party and support for the democratically-elected leader in order to concentrate on fighting the worst Tory government we’ve had for a great many years, I’m jumped on and lambasted by our resident Corbynistas?


20 Jan 21 - 07:22 AM (#4088911)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You're assuming that you've been right all along about Jeremy Corbyn. The splits in the party were caused not by him but by his opponents (constantly briefing against him, using the bogus antisemitism nonsense as a stick to beat him with, refusing to be in his shadow cabinet, etc. A death wish by the party right...). There's a very interesting new book that's been given excellent reviews, even by the right-wing press (before you say anything) that gives what's been described as a very honest account of Corbyn's leadership and what went wrong for him, This Land by Owen Jones. I'll be buying it. Corbyn stunned the pundits by robbing May of her majority in 2017. The Tories didn't like it, the media didn't like it and the right wing in the Labour Party didn't like it. So, next time round, out came the big guns...


20 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM (#4088912)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."


20 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM (#4088913)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG

I don't want to act as policeman here, by any means, but a lot of the recent posts should surely by the UK politics thread, not the one about Trump's Actions?


20 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM (#4088914)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

”It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."

That’s an interpretation you have chosen to put on it Steve. You’re the one who brings up ‘lefties’, etc., not me. Own your prejudice.

When I talk about ‘unity in the LP’, I’m asking for both sides to bury the hatchet and work together for the good, not only of the Party, but also of the vast majority of the people of this country.

And yes, DMcG, I agree that this discussion would be better placed in the UK Politics thread, but others raised it here.


20 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM (#4088919)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

The missing link was to a Federal government site about the procedures for paying money people running for president, including in the primaries. For some reason the lik doesn't work.

The point is, it's not a question of anybody barring him from election, it's about getting a court to confirm that by his own actions he has already done that to himself. It wouldn't need to be the government to launch a legal challenge. Whether the court would confirm that is an open question - but. I don't thank that any of the people he shoehorned into office would be likely to be affected by some sense of loyalty or gratitude in making their ruling.


20 Jan 21 - 10:01 AM (#4088933)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Have copied the Brit posts from here to the brexit thread so that we can carry on squabbling over there.


If we want to!


20 Jan 21 - 10:07 AM (#4088934)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I would think that a court would have to convict him first: you can't go around in the justice system banning people just because you don't like what they did. Either that or someone does it via some kind of civil action. Anyway, he's gone, but with the not-so-veiled threat that he'll be back. Be very afraid.


20 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM (#4088941)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Who hired the Trump impersonator that appeared at the door , dropped trou and mooned the Biden inuguration and left?


20 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM (#4088947)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

'twas I that mentioned UK parties but it was in comparison with the US Republican party. I also asked if that party was split and another question springs to mind. It only seems recent that the UK news outlets are referring to them as the "GOP". Is this significant?


20 Jan 21 - 12:00 PM (#4088951)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Don't read anything into the use of the term GOP. Today the Gop are the minority of Republicans that belong to the https://lincolnproject.us/

The remainder is the mob and Trump movrment which will shrink over time and indictments.


20 Jan 21 - 12:11 PM (#4088952)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

As you sow, so shall you reap. The reaping, for Donald Trump, is about to begin. The bastard will probably spend the afternoon out on the golf course. Let's hope these are his last relaxing hours. I wonder if he's even going to have an attorney at his impeachment trial. And I look forward to his being stripped of all of the usual perks of a former U.S. president.

His presentations of the presidential medals of freedom or honor will always have an asterisk, because they were given to cronies of no particular importance, people who lied for Trump, who didn't give great service to the nation.

Trump identified cracks in our laws and exploited them; now is the time to restore things to rights and fix the ones that were always broken.
I'm going to close this thread, and start a new one to follow Trump's court cases, and perhaps his managing to find a social media platform that won't kick him out - where he can spew more vitriol. If he manages to form a party it can serve as the foundation of a self-identified list of those to prosecute for the assault on the Capitol.


22 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM (#4089239)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The case has been made that Trump is still doing stupid stuff, and there are things from his administration that are now being shared that don't have to do with his prosecution. The post I received suggested his prosecution isn't as interesting (!) as his other nonsense. Personally I'm dying to read what happens to his fat ass in court, hoping he can't run out the clock like he usually does.

But here it is, the continuation of Trump's "Actions and Effects." and for your perusal, the New York Times ran an article about the truly awful scammers Trump pardoned on his way out the door. For Prosecutors, Trump’s Clemency Decisions Were a ‘Kick in the Teeth’


22 Jan 21 - 10:56 AM (#4089255)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I don't argue with the NYT but there is new information that the pardons that were crafted by an inferior lawyer has defined the pardons so narrowly that all the admissions of guilt to additional crimes to obtain a plea bargain can still be prosecuted.


22 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM (#4089267)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

This is the 21st Century, why would a modern democracy like the USA
still allow a king.. oops.. president
absolute powers to decree pardons on the merest royal.. oops.. presidential whim...!!!?????


22 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM (#4089270)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos

The US President issues a ceremonial pardon to a turkey every Thanksgiving.
[But I have heard somewhere that the turkey's reprieve expires not long after the close of the ceremony.]


22 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM (#4089307)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I'm catching up on this thread now that it is re-opened, but this was a good article:

Donald Trump was a 'demagogue president' and 'sociopath', says former FBI director James Comey


22 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM (#4089310)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

The link posted by McGrath of Harlow 20 Jan 21 - 04:03 AM about receiving public funding didn't work but the page with general information is here:

Understanding public funding of presidential elections


22 Jan 21 - 02:21 PM (#4089311)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

I still don't [perhaps never will] understand how the supposed beacon of planetary democracy
hands such absolute powers to one individual human being,
on the presumption a president will not turn out to be too crazy evil...?????????????


22 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM (#4089321)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Well, one crazy evil every couple of hundred years is all right, isn't it? Not a bad innings.


22 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM (#4089323)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects¿
From: McGrath of Harlow

"why would a modern democracy like the USA..."

The thing is the USA is not "a modern democracy". It's constitutional arrangements are 250 years old, and it's virtually impossible to adjust them to match the needs and the possibilities of today's world. The undead Founding Fathers still have the last word, and the President has powers that even King George never had.

It's amazing the place can even function.


22 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM (#4089324)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

A hard won revolutionary war to escape the tyranny of British monarchy..

So the victorious free democratic yanks then go and hand a presidential leader far more absolute arbitrary powers
than our ornamental old Queen Lizzie could ever dream of...!!!????????????????????????


22 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM (#4089325)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Two Brits cross posting on the same basic point..

Yank mates, you might need a rethink...???


22 Jan 21 - 05:22 PM (#4089338)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As sore loser brits celebrate the fall of the US constitution it is actully alive and well. It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that had the most deleterious results on the minds of people talked into victimhood and lies. The US has racist woes and brits have a few of their own.


22 Jan 21 - 05:26 PM (#4089342)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Sore loser Brits? You're a bit twisted, mate.


22 Jan 21 - 05:54 PM (#4089348)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

" It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that.."

.. it's you yanks, with your too easily abused political & legal systems,
wot took your eye off the ball
and nearly let a new wannabe h1tler rule the world..

No good blaming any bugger else...


22 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM (#4089356)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

To be fair, it wasn't all yanks. We've lived through a bloody nightmare for four years (yanks more than anyone), and enough yanks have recoiled in order to end it...


22 Jan 21 - 06:24 PM (#4089357)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I wanted to respond to McGrath thinking I'd confused Botswana with Zimbabwe. Going back to that list of Democracies, no I hadn't. The U.S. still listed much much higher than Zimbabwe, but the Economist, which I think makes up the list of democracies, had placed the U.S. in a population listed as 'troubled'. But the standards of that list are still relatively high and we are still ahead of Botswana.

Good Times.

Wouldn't surprise me if we do a bit of climbing on that list after the most recent U.S. election.

SRS has started a fresh thread specifically for legal and legislative repercussions to the former Occupant. I think this thread still has validity to societal and political implications that involve The Donald and his acolytes, because they are not going away.

Back to troubled democracies:

I had omitted from my list the most Trump-like of the other South American leaders: Bolsanaro of Brazil.


22 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM (#4089363)
Subject: RE: BS: BIDEN Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Joe is calm cool and collected as he makes humane decisions.
Joes religion is integral to his personality unlike aprosletizing Christians and a back biting Christian I've met here. His intellect is substantial enough to follow science while his predesesor could not.


22 Jan 21 - 07:12 PM (#4089369)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Nice thoughts, Don'l. We'll SEE.


22 Jan 21 - 07:52 PM (#4089378)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

"To be fair, it wasn't all yanks."

well.. if the Dems hadn't so self-defeatingly selected such a lame candidate as Clinton to oppose trump...

Couldn't they hear us all on this side of the Atlantic
groaning in exasperation at how crap she was...!!!?????


22 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM (#4089386)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

You forgot. We put clothes pins on our noses and voted for democracy's sake .


22 Jan 21 - 09:30 PM (#4089390)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I was all for Hillary in '08, only changed to Obama for non-Hillary reasons. And was glad I did; just wish I could've voted for him a third time. And in a way, I did.


23 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM (#4089452)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Sore Brit? The only thing I'd be sore at is being accused of being a Brit. (And I've never in my life met any "Brit" who has the least resentment at the American Revolution. It seems to be seen generally as very much a sideshow, a warm-up event for the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars.)

But there is something strange about the quasi-religious attitude that seems to pervade how many Americans in regard to the details of far-off time. It's different to the way other countries seem to treat their analogous events. The French Revolution or the Easter Rising are honoured and celebrated, but they aren't seen as setting the boundaries of how things should be today.


23 Jan 21 - 10:14 AM (#4089481)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

yes, I've noticed how even some supposedly liberal progressive yanks,
can still get knee-jerkingly aggressively defensive
if any Brit dares to criticise the hallowed US of A...


23 Jan 21 - 10:38 AM (#4089487)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sorry you got knee-jerkingly aggressively defensively kneed in the balls.

Sounds like different countries teach history differently dontcha think


23 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM (#4089491)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

We don't get brainwashed from infanthood having to salute the flag at school...


23 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM (#4089493)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

I think you will find that Rupert Murdock is Australian, not British.


23 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM (#4089495)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

That's Murdoch!!


23 Jan 21 - 11:26 AM (#4089499)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Back to the topic at hand:

The New York Times published a huge article last night Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General about Trump in cahoots with an Justice Department lawyer to try to overturn the Georgia election. Apparently they thought if they could push Georgia to cave on the results that the other swing states would follow.

    WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department’s power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.

    The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump’s continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president’s entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.


This guy is toast, and so, now, is Trump.


23 Jan 21 - 11:29 AM (#4089501)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Good Gawd EVERYONE knows he was Australian.
Hey robo by any chance have you ever seen a robokiller commercial?


23 Jan 21 - 11:42 AM (#4089505)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Raggytash time to play catchup. archives

If Donald had gone through with his own Saturday night massacre a mass resignation would be the news and not him.


23 Jan 21 - 11:44 AM (#4089507)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash

Then your use of the term "Brits" on either side of your mention of his name denotes a very poor use of the English language.


23 Jan 21 - 02:51 PM (#4089555)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Rupert Murdoch, our most successful export! We lost him - i.e. we WON! - and the Brits won him - i.e. they LOST!

Unfortunately Murdoch's influence extends outside of the UK but the majority of our politicians don't give him much credence.


23 Jan 21 - 05:14 PM (#4089587)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Guys - for business purposes he is an American now

Now what does Brits rhyme with?

Who is happiest about Donald's departure?
The White House bathroom attendant.


23 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM (#4089592)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

wit


23 Jan 21 - 05:35 PM (#4089594)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. but seeing as you used the plural "Brits" = wits


23 Jan 21 - 07:30 PM (#4089607)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Great bit on the News Quiz on Radio 4 this weekend:

Yank panellist: "Aubergine: isn't that your name for eggplant?"

Brit panellist: "No. Aubergine is our name for aubergines."   

Brilliant!


24 Jan 21 - 01:37 AM (#4089636)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I spent some of my formative years in the birthplace of our nation:

Massachusetts.

Class trips and my own perambulations have taken me to the origin of our War of Independence, Lexington Square, and Concord Bridge.

They are indeed hallowed. Concord Bridge especially has been kept up most wonderfully and is well worth a visit. Lexington square is a bit grown built-up, but there is a monument and you can get good Chinese food round the corner.

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.

It seemed quite reasonable and none of us were at all put out about it.

It's sort of like when Christians with no other background ask Jews what about Jesus in their history and the answer is Jesus ain't in our history. We were doing other stuff at the time.


24 Jan 21 - 05:24 AM (#4089665)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.



When I was growing up, here in England, I knew about the Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere's midnight ride and George Washington. Even now, other than King George III, I can't recall any names on the British side.

DC


24 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM (#4089738)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: fat B****rd

As a "mature" student in 2007-8 I took Higher History. In a unanimous decision we "did" the American Civil Rights Movement because our tutor said it was "sexier" than UK Economics.


24 Jan 21 - 06:56 PM (#4089765)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The American War of Independence is so different when you learn it as a kid. I don't know if it is taught the same way (or at all) for a bunch of reasons:

1) War of Independence versus Revolution. Now I think there were two separate occasions. Fighting the British was to achieve independence. The people who were branded 'Tories' would've branded themselves 'Loyalists'. I understand the population broke down into rough thirds: A third for independence, a third for loyalists, and a third that didn't really care. Some of the fighting was harsh.

2) Impact on young British Canada: Many of the American Loyalists lost their land and removed themselves to Canada, where they created their own mini-revolution in that at the time Canada was mainly French citizens administered by an English governing / military force. A significant new population of English speaking new citizens wanted their rights recognized.

3) Impact on France. The French government spent a lot of money on support for the American cause. It was their fleet that bottled up the English in Yorktown to seal the colonial victory. And it lead to the French Revolution when the French Royalists were out of dough to support their economically challenged population.

4) The issue of slavery has been soft pedalled for generations. As part of the Yorktown surrender the Americans required the British to return their property, being slaves to whom the English had promised their freedom.

5) Even after Yorktown there was no guarantee of American success. One of the main secrets to the success of the new nation was the protracted negotiations that spelled out just what that colonial victory meant. Read a great book called "The Perils of Peace" which spelled it out.

6) The actual Revolution: Came with the Constitutional Convention and its draft product which we still argue about to this day. The notion of a governmental structure based literally on the interpretation of a piece of paper. As mentioned by Franklin: "A Republic, if you can keep it."


25 Jan 21 - 07:06 AM (#4089813)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

The only time I seem to remember we touched upon the American events were in the context of the causes of the French Revolution.


25 Jan 21 - 10:18 AM (#4089828)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I only lived in Boston for 4 years. It really is historic and in certain ways more trusting yet racist than NYC.


25 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM (#4089842)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Just a thought:

For a while, at least before the inauguration in which
Joseph Biden became the US President,
it had sense that Donald Trump would have two threads in BS
with his name on them.
Now that he no longer lives or works in the District of Columbia,
could we please have just one Donald Trump thread
instead of two Trump threads?

Thanks.


25 Jan 21 - 12:07 PM (#4089851)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

Keb - On my PC desktop, I've simplified things even further to archive links I keep
for further reference on folks in politics..

Two folders.. "GOOD GUYS" and "OBNOXIOUS PRICKS"...


25 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM (#4089857)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

We've already discussed and sorted this one. This thread continues to reveal the facts behind his misbehavior while he was in office, the other one will, if it proceeds as planned, will follow the court cases.


25 Jan 21 - 01:02 PM (#4089858)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Surely there are some who fall in between, or move between the two extremes?


25 Jan 21 - 01:10 PM (#4089864)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

McGrath - yeah.. dodgy grey hat 'anti-heroes' are accounted for..

For them, I place duplicate links in each folder...


25 Jan 21 - 01:11 PM (#4089865)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

.. they tend to be my kind of people...


26 Jan 21 - 12:03 AM (#4089945)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Keb:

I think this thread is for non legal matters that involve Trump's effects on the country and allows for more freedom of subject matter, such as the wandering into how democratic countries are that we veered into above.


26 Jan 21 - 12:22 AM (#4089946)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

My belief is this thread is about a big general UH OH regarding trends in corruption.

TODAYS TREND is that after 8 years of California drought, the richest and fatest have made water a commodity like gold or oil and will allow investors to invest in WATER FUTURES. Speculation by Hedge Funds will fuel its price. Wall St will help insure that money can be made from human misery or any other extraneous life that depends on water.
Wanna git in on the ground floor? Save your spit.


26 Jan 21 - 02:47 PM (#4090042)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

Trump didn't cause troubles so much as exploit them. Here are some long-term trends that I don't see going away:

slow, constant loss of real income among lower-status families
fatherlessness
lack of scientific knowledge
lack of experience in the real world versus digital products
increasing lack of knowledge of how to raise children.
substance abuse, which increases anger, costs precious money, and
    impedes intelligent thought

All these things lead to a large body of people who are looking for a savior - a daddy- a superman - to change their lives.

When Trump finally wanted the rioters to go home, he said "We love you," two times. Why? Because he was their daddy.


26 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM (#4090070)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

There was a line from an old detective TV show where the private eye has discovered something in the past of the femme fatale and she says:
"Just what rock did you crawl out from?"
And he answers
"I didn't crawl out, ma'am, you found that rock and turned it over all by yourself!"

That's one description of what happened with Trmp. He was out there all the time, it took the public watching him on television, and it took the public voting for him, which they did, enough to elect him once and enough to come way too close to electing him again. Trmp can't help being Trmp, but the problem is that America made Trmp possible and electable.

But life has changed, for sure, Some of it's Trmp, some of it's Covid, and some of it is the interplay. And most of it is fallout of technology.


27 Jan 21 - 07:19 AM (#4090154)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I want leenia write a story for the Atlantic titled 'Daddy Issues'


27 Jan 21 - 09:23 AM (#4090172)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

robo the Trump saga could easily be a modern day film noire with an upbeat Vida Trump Loca soundtrack..


27 Jan 21 - 09:41 AM (#4090174)
Subject: RE: Flush Trump
From: Donuel

If only there was a legal legal remedy to send Trump home, his original home, Flushing, a neighborhood in the north-central portion of the New York City borough of Queens. The neighborhood is the fourth-largest central business district in New York City. Downtown Flushing, a major commercial and retail area centered around the intersection of Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue, is the third-busiest intersection in New York City, behind Times Square and Herald Square.

Flushing was established as a settlement of New Netherland on October 10, 1645, on the eastern bank of Flushing Creek. In 1898, Flushing was consolidated into the City of New York. Development came in the early 20th century with the construction of bridges and public transportation. An immigrant population, composed mostly of Chinese and Koreans, settled in Flushing in the late 20th century.

Flushing contains numerous residential subsections, and its diversity is reflected by the numerous ethnic groups that Trump grew to hate.


27 Jan 21 - 09:48 AM (#4090175)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Everytime he flushes his gold toilet he feels a little homesick with recollections of his youth.


27 Jan 21 - 11:09 AM (#4090193)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

As time passes the GOP seem to hope the events of Jan. 6, if not the full past four years, fade from memory. They can just forget about it. Trump needs to face the criminal justice system, not just the House and Senate in this second impeachment.


27 Jan 21 - 12:06 PM (#4090206)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Humor returns to the White House as Joe gives a FOX reporter a smart answer at the end of a briefing.


27 Jan 21 - 05:11 PM (#4090244)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I really did lol.

pfr I have 3 folders.. "GOOD GUYS" and "OBNOXIOUS PRICKS"...
and totally full of shit.


27 Jan 21 - 06:18 PM (#4090255)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I heard of this first from an AM radio station, I think it was cast in a negative light of how it was a snap response that might indicate senility. You can't even have a sense of humor anymore.


27 Jan 21 - 06:31 PM (#4090258)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Most AM radio has a right wing extremist viewpoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group


27 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM (#4090289)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-january-27-2021


27 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM (#4090290)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I sort of use the term 'AM Radio' as a synonym for 'hard right wing' but there you go Don'l making the obvious even more obvious. Thanks!


27 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM (#4090293)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Its obvious to us but not members on Greenwich time or down under.


28 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM (#4090328)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Republicans are pursuing new voter restriction laws as a result of Trump's loss. To absentee vote they want people to submit special Voter ID to get a ballot IN PERSON and then a second time when they mail it.

Isn't that like being required to attend Zoom meetings in person?


28 Jan 21 - 08:10 PM (#4090419)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

In a way, Obama was a case of three steps forward, Trump was a case of two and a half steps back, but he was so out of balance he led to a rapid three steps forward again. Just not for Republicans. They are deeply divided and many of their course directions such as voter limitation and qualifications are likely to lead to severe pushbacks.


29 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM (#4090463)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump and Cheek Alert
From: Donuel

For decades scientists have models that social unrest is at its foundation a parasitic brain infection that spreads easily among socioconomic groups. I'm not saying its true but the theories are numerous and ongoing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991276/

Are varying degrees of Q anon fever at pandemic proportions ? 8^I
Steve have you felt different ever since Q fever?
Senofou sounds completely healed ;^/


29 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM (#4090510)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve mentioned that on a different thread, Don. Several flippant responses have been deleted. (It is a "thing," Steve had it. Look it up.)

From CNN today:

Nine days after newly sworn-in President Joe Biden told America that "every disagreement doesn't have to be a cause for total war," recriminations between the parties and the Republican meltdown are consuming Congress.

It's now clear that the January 6 mob attack on Capitol Hill, while failing in its bid to reverse Trump's election loss, has utterly fractured the basic level of trust needed to make a political system function — at a critical national moment.

In the quarter century of bitter political battles since former speaker Newt Gingrich's Republican revolution, Washington has never been this inflamed.

At times on Thursday, it appeared that the whole of Congress was fixated on its own civil wars, cut off from behind its high iron fence from the reality of America's darkest modern winter.


I was listening to a discussion yesterday about the way the GOP has, over the years, accepted more conservative racist elements that have completely altered the face of the party that was once simply fiscally conservative. When Johnson (who himself was a racist) went with the Civil Rights movement, many Southern Democrats bailed on the party and joined the GOP; when Reagan ran and invited in the "Moral Majority" group, they made a huge impact on the direction of the party. And then there was the Tea Party gang that hopped on, and now that Trump has emptied the Q loony bin into the GOP the party is a Juggernaut that is aiming at completely altering the face of America.


29 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM (#4090555)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Of course I agree with the mistrust issues! I gathered that Steve was starting to repeat the fact that republican Senator jurors would not vote against their king.

To regain that trust could take extraordinary admissions even including that the US knows more about ufo's than the misinformation we have gotten for decades. The average person doesn't know much about reconcilliation rules but they are 'experts' on ufos.
After all, we're dealing with average Joes.


29 Jan 21 - 06:34 PM (#4090573)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You are way too kind to him, Maggie. I'm bloody sick and tired of this bloke misrepresenting me, to the point of telling lies. I mean, Maggie, how many times have I said that THERE IS NO JURY? Please reread his last post. So he's a fellow yank and I'm just a Brit...OK, I didn't mean that, but begod you've got me thinking...


29 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM (#4090574)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

To be honest, Stilly seems like the only one here who understands that US Founding fathers and Constituton writers recognized that 'reason' had to have an equal chance to counter/balance 'passion' for the nation to endure. Now we are dealing with an overflowing river of misinformation and mistrust from Facebook tributaries. Wall St. helped flood the nation with the 2008 home foreclosure crises. Mistrust is a natural outcome. Misinformation from the KKK segment of society enticed moderate whites who felt victimized. They are NOT the majority except in guns. With a President who parrots people's suspicions, the misinformation has hardened. We even have our own Joe O who puruses neo nazi history revisionist websites and posts their viewpoint as in the This land thread. Since he is still in a denial mode there is still hope for reason to return, his pm's not withstanding. Growing up I read The Minority of One. Today I feel like I am one.
Trump in this light is a symptom and not a cause but believe me he has caused alot along with his advisor Steve Bannon.

Yes I can prove I have warned of a risk of civil war insurrection for several decades and now I find others may take this too lightly. That is my worry and insecurity and not an accusation. Perhaps I am not a minority of one. BUT IT IS THE BEST OF TIMES AND THE WORST OF TIMES.


29 Jan 21 - 07:35 PM (#4090586)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I too puruse the right wing media as I was taught as a child to "look into the wolf's mouth to see what it is eating". So I may be wrong about the allgience of others who might do the same.
A couple days ago it was Holocaust Rememberence day. It was not mentioned here unless Jack Campin said something. We are in a type of holocaust now but you can see where I am coming from when I say this community, while smart, has some short comings I have tried to mend be it facism, disgraphia, dyslexia, autism, stubborness, and my all time fav Grumpiness :^/


29 Jan 21 - 07:53 PM (#4090591)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

It was mentioned in our house. On the nights we crack a bottle open, we chink glasses in honour of (lemme see....) our kids, our beloved grandchild, my mum, anyone who's spoken out... So last night we raised a glass to all the Holocaust dead and all those who have fought for justice over the last seven decades since. Tears shed this end. No need to go large on Mudcat if you don't mind. The fact that we didn't reflects absolutely nothing. And do be advised that you have misused the word Holocaust in your post, thereby diminishing the word's true impact. What you think the US is suffering now is by no means equivalent. So please do not abuse that word. There's something wrong with you if you can't see how offensive that is.


29 Jan 21 - 07:53 PM (#4090592)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Surely you don't have to look into a wolf's mouth to determine its diet? Just check out its food bowl...

On my first trip up the Alaska Highway I noticed that a Canadian pony had a huge scar across its belly. "What happened to her?" "Wolves" "Had she wondered off?" " She was across the street!"

Don'l you at times seem near rational, but you have been and remain a source of Trumpiness.


29 Jan 21 - 08:06 PM (#4090595)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You do a lot better than I do at channelling outrage, robo. Respect, mate...


29 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM (#4090598)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

My take away from my grumpy friend's posts is habitual teasing grumpiness.
Nor am I inclined to suspect they suffer from psychosis, but narcisisim
is a possibility for one.


29 Jan 21 - 09:01 PM (#4090600)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Biden's approval rating at 45% is higher than Trump's ever was. But when it comes to Biden's Covid relief Bill the approval rating is 69% !
Things are looking up.


29 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM (#4090603)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Donald Trump - 'The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

The KGB ‘played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality’, Yuri Shvets, a key source for a new book, tells the Guardian

Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.

Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to “the Cambridge five”, the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

“This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump,” Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.


30 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM (#4090763)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

There is no end to the ability to play Trump, including playing his absence...
When you can't sell the steak, sell the sizzle.

When the steak stinks, sell the air freshener.


31 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM (#4090802)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

heheheh when the air freshener stinks sell the bleach.

'Trunk's' lead 'impreachment' defense lawyer and another lawyer referred by Lyndsy Graham, 'Butch' Bower, have 'Q uit' !


31 Jan 21 - 09:48 AM (#4090827)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sadly passion trumps decorum


31 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM (#4090844)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Apologies to Steve. Although the Senators are jurists in an impeachmeent trial they are a different kind of jury.
If thats what you meant?

Alex Jones is back in the news for passing along $300,000 to organizers of the Capitol attack.

OPTIONAL RANT: I hope Trump will found and fund his new Patriot Party (PeePee). Sane Republicans need a country club of their own abd Rethugricans can splinter off and join Trump with glee and shower him in PeePee autocracy. In no time America will decide which party is truly a fringe party.


31 Jan 21 - 12:02 PM (#4090850)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

We need at least two viable functioning parties in our political system, and if the flakes and zealots would peel off of the GOP and join Trump, the GOP has to resolve to never let the crackpots back into the tent. They've invited various groups - racists, moral majority, tea partiers, to their own detriment. A conservative party is fine; a party of crackpots is not.

A one-party political system is no longer a Democracy and is to be avoided at all costs.


31 Jan 21 - 12:33 PM (#4090854)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

P P.. Pity Party...


31 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM (#4090869)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The closest US party to a Patriot Party historicly, was ironically called the Know Nothing Party.


01 Feb 21 - 01:02 AM (#4090914)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

So we've gone from Tea Party to Patriot Party?

From TeePee to PeePee?

You just can't make this stuff up!

One observation take it as you will, SNL needs Donald Trmp back in the news. It wasn't too good without him last night.


01 Feb 21 - 09:07 PM (#4091041)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

What is happening is they are still doing game show takeoffs which while a reliable way to mount a satire that is humorous and insightfully barbed, it can result in a sameness that has grown old over many many years.

Also, the recent incarnation of writers have a leader or core group that thinks that disgustingness or grossness is funny. I'm tired of it. Your mileage may vary.

The social bubble where everyone got arrested for reactionary activity was sort of fun, but ultimately not that barbed. Somewhat better was towards the end, the look at the 'new Georgia'. which has suddenly gone woke and blue-state.

Their musical guests have the characteristics of Wagner. Some inspired choices, mostly just uninspired or what's been up for the grammies or worse.

The high point is typically the news section.

Trmp gave them an almost endless supply of outrageousness that almost could be written straight into scripts. The closest they came to this was in the cold open when Kate MacKinnon interviewed "Marjorie Taylor Greene" who basically just recited her own tweets.


02 Feb 21 - 04:23 AM (#4091065)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Donuel, just to keep the record straight, the Orange One (now the Faded One) did indeed reach and pass a 45% approval rating. He hit 49% four or five times. However, he never reached 50%.

A segue here- a thought that's bothered me for some time: All revolutions are traitorous, unless the rebels win. Right?


02 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM (#4091149)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Off The Rails

Bonus episode: Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency


This is a long read and is frankly the most astonishing thing I've read about as far as the people inside Trump's White House.

For example

The meeting had come entirely off the rails.

Byrne, backing up Flynn, told Trump the White House lawyers didn't care about him and were being obstructive. "Sir, we're both entrepreneurs, and we both built businesses," the former Overstock CEO told Trump. "We know that there are times you have to be creative and take different steps."

This was a remarkable level of personal familiarity, given it was the first time Byrne had met the president. All the stanchions and buffers between the White House and the outside world had crumbled.

Byrne kept attacking the senior White House staff in front of Trump. "They've already abandoned you," he told the president aggressively. Periodically during the meeting Flynn or Byrne challenged Trump's top staff — portraying them as disloyal: So do you think the president won or not?

At one point, with Flynn shouting, Byrne raised his hand to talk. He stood up and turned around to face Herschmann. "You're a quitter," he said. "You've been interfering with everything. You've been cutting us off."

"Do you even know who the fuck I am, you idiot?" Herschmann snapped back.

"Yeah, you're Patrick Cipollone," Byrne said.

"Wrong! Wrong, you idiot!"

The staff were now on their feet, standing behind one of the couches and facing the Powell crew at the Resolute Desk. Cipollone stood to Herschmann's left. Lyons, on his last day on the job, stood to Herschmann's right.


02 Feb 21 - 05:28 PM (#4091168)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

In the summer before the inauguration of Abraham Lincoln, Washington DC was known as the city of a thousand Stinks! Cows grazed on the White House pasture and chamber pots spilled into the streets. Dirt roads like Constitution Ave. churned the smelly rainy runoff into an applesauce of mud. The Washington canal poured an open fetid raw sewerage to 'aromatize' the entire pioneer city with an equality of stench. The mood of the country was turning muddier in November when Lincoln lost the popular vote but squeaked out a win by the electoral college. Lincoln won only by a plurality in 1861 because there were 3 candidates. The fights in the Senate Chamber preceded 1861 by a number of months. The largest Slave trading auctions in the nation took place until 1850 on what we now call the Mall. Even the statue atop the capitol was made by slaves.

Like today, back in 1861 troops were quartered in the US Capitol. Things in Washington still stink in regards to racism, institutional slavery and election results. In 1861 Fights took place on the Senate floor when a South Carolina Senator beat a fellow Senator after an anti slavery speech. A new President Lincoln faced long odds and an eventual stink of hundreds of thousands of rotting corpses in battle fields across the nation. The call of the south shall rise has never gone silent. Some of the modern attackers of the capitol last month had great grandfathers registered in the Confederate Army

In the first Civil War, the South was desperately lacking the manufacturing capabilities which spelled eventual defeat. They even had to smuggle printing plates to print money that were made in New Jersey. The lead for bullets and weapons came from England but that soon came to an end with a Blockade by the Union Navy. But today The South has oil and manufacturing factories like Mercedes and Toyota not to mention Cape Canaveral and Houston. Its no wonder a serious coup to take over America had a chance in the minds of neo-confederate sympathizers. But it was done by the gang who couldn't shoot straight – and worse than that, their 'Jefferson Davis' was a NY Yankee.

Just like the middle east Isis, the American Isis will be using Toyota and Chevy pick up trucks in their war for freedom. The Proud Boys will drive Mercedes like the Saudis.


02 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM (#4091191)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Donuel, I always think your posts are worth reading - even if I miss some of the allusions to USA-specific topics. Creative, quirky, humourous, sometimes a bit sharp, always well-read with a broad general knowledge and sometimes specific knowledge of certain topics.


02 Feb 21 - 10:17 PM (#4091193)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Under Trump effects: one of the three officers who have died during or following the January 6, 2021 coup Trump orchestrated honored.

Capitol Police Office Brian Sicknick is lying in state in the US Capitol as of tonight (he died at 9:30 the night after the assault on the Capitol, so they returned him at 9:30 tonight).

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963336791/brian-sicknick-capitol-police-officer-slain-in-riot-will-lie-in-honor-in-rotunda


03 Feb 21 - 08:40 AM (#4091237)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Chronicaling true events is crucial to have a consensus of understanding. Opinion might be next. Parody is further down the line of importance but it amuses me. Science fiction was my first interest.
Vast general knowledge is much less marketable than focused expertise. Jack of all trades-master of none.


03 Feb 21 - 09:29 AM (#4091243)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Truthfully I am not well read. I have had to memorize in an audible fashion and other tricks to circumvent the effects of dyslexia and migraine since birth. At 58 the migraines vanished. Woo HOO
Scientists suggest left angular gyrus irregularities but with such strong effects on the eyes I believe migraines have an occipital connection with hormone disruption.

Some of us have noticed that Donald Trump has damaged emotions. It is a complex issue that I would think first requires knowing where that damage effects a person in their brain.

1. Happiness activates several areas of the brain, including the right frontal cortex, the precuneus, the left amygdala, and the left insula. This activity involves connections between awareness (frontal cortex and insula) and the “feeling center” (amygdala) of the brain.

2. Fear activates the bilateral amygdala, the hypothalamus and areas of the left frontal cortex. This involves some thinking (frontal cortex), a “gut” feeling (amygdala), and a sense of urgency typically associated with survival (the hypothalamus.)

3. Sadness is associated with increased activity of the right occipital lobe, the left insula, the left thalamus the amygdala and the hippocampus. The hippocampus is strongly linked with memory, and it makes sense that awareness of certain memories is associated with feeling sad.

Sadness has been studied more than the other emotions because depression may last for a long time; the effects of antidepressants can be measured based on improved symptoms.

4. Disgust is an interesting feeling that is often associated with avoidance. This emotion that is associated with activation and connections between the left amygdala, the left inferior frontal cortex, and the insular cortex.

5. Anger is an important emotion that many people, adults and children alike, try to control. Anger is associated with activation of the right hippocampus, the amygdala, both sides of the prefrontal cortex and the insular cortex.

6. Surprise is an emotion that can either make you feel good or it can make you feel bad. Surprise activates the bilateral inferior frontal gyrus and the bilateral hippocampus. The hippocampus is strongly associated with memory, and the element of surprise is, by nature, associated with experiencing something that you do not remember or do not expect.

Localized disease in the brain can cause cross over cascading events to other areas of emotion.

definitions and location of emotions is from Neurologic review
https://www.neurologylive.com/view/how-brain-processes-emotions


03 Feb 21 - 09:44 AM (#4091246)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Perhaps you noticed Empathy is not considered an emotion.
Without empathy more or less degrees of sociocpathology emerge.
Some got it and some don't.


03 Feb 21 - 10:00 AM (#4091250)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

An IQ of 80 does not make me a genius, nor have I ever claimed such misinformation as yours pfr. Lets stick to ideas and not fear or anger if you can.

I will never disclose a private message. Its a matter of respect.

As for the sociopaths in society they often hold high positions and seldom obey rules.


03 Feb 21 - 10:34 AM (#4091253)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

"I will never disclose a private message. Its a matter of respect."

Neither have I, or ever would..

Did I copy and paste your PM here..???

No, that would have been a breach of confidence..

But when a pattern begins to emerge of an individual abusing the PM system
to conduct secretive grudge agendas..

Then it is fair to refer to such snidey PMs in public forum..


I've made it clear many times before that I do not to use PMs,
unless I reply politely to any worth responding to..
I always prefer open transparent communications here in mudcat threads..

So, it is you who needs to treat the PM system with proper due respect...!!!

More and more similarities between you and trump are becoming revealed...


03 Feb 21 - 12:30 PM (#4091286)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

so full of sturm and drang signifying nothing

Meanwhile back at his resort ..... contorts the truth

I'd rather be
a deputy
of Biden than a prisoner
of the trump
Joe lets us in
Knows where we've been
In his empathy and truth
From DC
I'd ask my friends
To come and see
A Senate passing good laws
With me
I'd like to be
happy and free
With a Biden's White House
In the shade
We would be warm
Below the storm
In our little happy home
where we live
Singing out loud
and feeling so proud
In a democratic land
Near the sea
We would sing
And could bring
Equality
to share the joy of life
I'd like to be
a deputy
of Biden than a prisoner
of trump's autocracy
We would shout
And swim about
the the lakes and clean shores
Of our seas


03 Feb 21 - 02:06 PM (#4091307)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Can we get back to the topic of the thread please? Any personal comments about behaviour should be about the Trump, surely, and not about people posting here.

Looking on the bright side, Trump's current actions and effects have far less influence now than they did a couple of weeks ago, although I wouldn't put his influence out to pasture just yet because he is still plotting and planning in his dark, dank robber's cave. On the other hand, Trump's past actions are still reverberating, not least of which is the criminal (IMO) failure to protect the American people from harm, especially from COVID but also from insurrection.

The impeachment trial probably won't appear to achieve the desired outcome, but the fact that it is going ahead on 8 Feb is an outcome in itself. I'm looking forward to seeing the civil actions against him after that is over.



Off topic posts thinned out - please do stop the personal attacks and stick to the subject. ---mudelf


03 Feb 21 - 03:11 PM (#4091312)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Thank you, O anonymous and legendary mudelf.


03 Feb 21 - 04:40 PM (#4091327)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

1.3 Billion dollar lawsuits speak louder than lies.
News Max channel has supported the the election conspiracy lie by Trump for years but now they have changed their reporting. A bit too late imo


03 Feb 21 - 04:50 PM (#4091330)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The plaintiff, Dominion Voting machines, claims damages including death threats, financial loss and could sue Trump directly and not just Rudy and lieing 'news' channels. Sorry you don't like color Helen or seeing other people's true colors. Good on you. The sun is back.


04 Feb 21 - 08:19 AM (#4091411)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Psychologicaly when a person's emotions are broken, a secondary paranoia can overwhelm an individual. For example a black person in the US experiences many examples of law enforcement attacking and killing people like themselves and begin to generalize that all law enforcement are murdering bastards. Now after the attack on the capitol many white people have experienced for the first time that members of law enforcement among the mob were willing to put in jeopardy or kill them is a shock to their psyche. Learning the likelihood that the police can be the enemy is new to many white people who were not inclined to be criminals. Eventually a person can see personal attacks everywhere until physical health is also endangered.


04 Feb 21 - 08:40 PM (#4091525)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Trmp resigns from Screen Actors Guild

He wrote a blatant letter in which the oprative phrase from his point of view is: "You have done nothing for me."

Pretty much sums up his attitude.


05 Feb 21 - 12:30 AM (#4091537)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Tonight on the Rachel Maddow Show she's talking about how Trump refuses to call himself the former president. He has set up the office of the 45th President of the US, he's still using the presidential seal. I wonder how long he'll get away with that BS.

Pence has set up an office of the former Vice President, something like that.


06 Feb 21 - 04:53 PM (#4091855)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Interesting you bring up Rachel Maddow. My hiking buddy is reading Bag Man and is getting me to read it, too. It's about Spiro Agnew and apparently has much to recommend it as an example of how things have NOT changed all that much.


07 Feb 21 - 10:51 AM (#4091978)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I have that book in my tablet but haven't started it yet. It sounds fascinating (there was a blog on the same topic, which is why she expanded it into book form).

From The Guardian

"It was not just May who found Trump unsettling: to European diplomatic observers, he seemed a “strange creature”. And he also triggered alarm among some American officials in the room with him, with one defence official noting that the president’s notoriously short attention span suggested a “squirrel careening through the traffic”."

How Donald Trump's hand-holding led to panicky call home by Theresa May


08 Feb 21 - 07:52 PM (#4092213)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The feeling this end is that Trump is almost certain to be acquitted by the Senate. Whatever else happens, you have to find a way of preventing him from standing in 2024. I can't help feeling that the danger is far from over.


08 Feb 21 - 08:29 PM (#4092215)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Oh sure... not enough Republicans are brave enough to vote to convict. It IS a useful way to make a point, though.
I am waiting for all the state indictments that will be filed after the show trial... I think Letitia James has over 60... and Georgia is working on some.


08 Feb 21 - 09:01 PM (#4092221)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I can't find the damn thing now after 15 minutes' searching, and it's past my bedtime, but I hear that a poll concluded that only a narrow majority think that Trump should be convicted/punished (maybe you can find it). He still has masses of supporters, and that should worry us.


09 Feb 21 - 01:43 AM (#4092240)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The Capitol Rioters Aren’t Like Other Extremists

We analyzed 193 people arrested in connection with the January 6 riot—and found a new kind of American radicalism.

On January 6, a mob of about 800 stormed the U.S. Capitol in support of former President Donald Trump, and many people made quick assumptions regarding who the insurrectionists were. Because a number of the rioters prominently displayed symbols of right-wing militias, for instance, some experts called for a crackdown on such groups. Violence organized and carried out by far-right militant organizations is disturbing, but it at least falls into a category familiar to law enforcement and the general public. However, a closer look at the people suspected of taking part in the Capitol riot suggests a different and potentially far more dangerous problem: a new kind of violent mass movement in which more “normal” Trump supporters—middle-class and, in many cases, middle-aged people without obvious ties to the far right—joined with extremists in an attempt to overturn a presidential election.

To understand the events of January 6 and devise solutions to prevent their recurrence, Americans need a fine-grained comprehension of who attacked the Capitol. Understanding the ideology and beliefs of those who commit political violence is important, but so is knowing what kind of people they are and what their lives are like.

For the past decade and a half, our research team at the Chicago Project on Security and Threats has conducted demographic studies of international and domestic terrorists.


The rest is at the link.


09 Feb 21 - 06:26 AM (#4092263)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

For me, how easily ordinary people are, and historically have been swept along by right wing extremism and other forms of radicalisation should be a cause for concern.


10 Feb 21 - 01:25 PM (#4092481)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

During the discussion of the presentations ahead they said they assume families will be watching these hearings together, and will try to give warnings ahead of time for any graphic content so parents can decide if their children should see it. It seems that blood and death and damage are going to be part of the evidence, which is appropriate in this. Maybe they can shame the GOP into voting their conscience and not acquitting Trump out of fear of his "base."


10 Feb 21 - 02:36 PM (#4092492)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I just read an Oz ABC News article which mentioned that Trump is now facing criminal charges from New York and Georgia for attempting to influence the elections.

In answer to a reader's question, "What is Trump doing whilst all this is going on?" the journalist said:

"Trump was probably doing the same as yesterday and watching it unfold on TV, and that 'apparently he was none too pleased with his defence team's performance yesterday'.

"He was 'basically screaming,' according to CNN’s Kaitlan Collins.

" 'Trump was especially disappointed in the performance of his lawyer Bruce Castor, who gave a rambling argument, wore an ill-fitting suit and at one point praised the case presented by the Democratic House impeachment managers,' two people involved in the effort told the Washington Post."

Trump “had expected a swashbuckling lawyer and instead watched what was a confusing and disjointed performance".


I guess the suit his lawyer was wearing is of the ultimate importance??!!


10 Feb 21 - 02:55 PM (#4092497)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

"his lawyer Bruce Castor, who gave a rambling argument, wore an ill-fitting suit..."

Agent Orange should be flattered that his lawyer used him as his role-model.


10 Feb 21 - 03:08 PM (#4092502)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Now that you mention it.....Yes! :-D


10 Feb 21 - 04:31 PM (#4092518)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker

When trump dies, should his body be disposed of in a secret location,
like other notorious rogue leaders/dictators...???

Does America really need a grand monument to rally round in memory of him...???????


10 Feb 21 - 04:40 PM (#4092519)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Or should a statue be erected so that the pigeons have something to sh!t on?


10 Feb 21 - 07:36 PM (#4092544)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow

Does the Senate's decision that the trial is constitutional carry constitutional weight? I'd was have thought that it does, and that in any future scenario it would be a pretty decisive precedent.

In which case there is no room for a Senator who voted for acquittal to argue that this was because they believed that it was unconstitutional, because this has already bee determined. The only thing they have any right to consider is guilt or inocence as charged.


27 Feb 21 - 06:05 PM (#4095223)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

CPAC in Orlando Looks to Be the Saddest, Stupidest CPAC Yet

The annual GOP clusterfuck is underway and the Trump kids are having a ball. Their father will speak and there's also a golden statue that matches the toilets in his various homes.


27 Feb 21 - 06:36 PM (#4095233)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I think the statue is a good representation of the Trumpster. Tacky, overdone, silly, unflattering, in-your-face and difficult to ignore.


28 Feb 21 - 07:59 AM (#4095285)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The statue's
small stature
of 4 feet tall
says it all.


28 Feb 21 - 09:50 AM (#4095291)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It's a six-foot statue, but Trump argues that he's 6'4" (except of course you can compare him standing next to people who are that height and even his fluffed hair doesn't bring him to that measure.)


28 Feb 21 - 11:55 AM (#4095317)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Pamber

It's been said many times but he is probably the only person on earth who could make our BoJo look competent (well fairly competent)


28 Feb 21 - 06:07 PM (#4095384)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

He is over an hour into his diatribe as I type this. His main newsmaking line to this point is that he's not "starting a new party, that was false news." He is re-hashing all his old lines and gaining energy as he goes. Not too much hand gesturing.

Now he's going over his Republican enemies by name.


01 Mar 21 - 12:24 AM (#4095426)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I would like to advance into the Biden presidency with the former office-abuser being silent. No tweeting, no speaking. I turned off the radio today when they started to play some of the crap he is speaking.

Media are going to have to come to grips with the idea that as long as they highlight his antics they are giving his foolish followers energy and Trump himself oxygen. They need to resist covering him, and in particular stop letting him see his own visage on the television.


01 Mar 21 - 05:46 AM (#4095463)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: JHW

News today, 1st March (not April) Trump to run again in 4 years time.


01 Mar 21 - 05:55 AM (#4095464)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

There's a calmness afoot these days that's very welcome. However, I'm disappointed with the indulgence that the US is affording the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. That disappointment extends to all the bootlicking that the West does with regard to that corrupt, anti-democratic, misogynistic and murderous regime, but a shot across the bows from the US would have at least sent a message.

It's still the oil, innit...and any friend of Israel is a friend of mine...


01 Mar 21 - 08:07 AM (#4095489)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

WE all would like to move on Maggie but in the Ubited States of Amnesia we would have forgotten about orange being the new white by now. BUT cult hypnotic programing takes a while longer than usual.

Steve should list his US indulgences like released classified intelligence regarding the Prince murder of Jamal or the effort for Saudi to normalize relations with Syria or Biden's refusal to speak to the prince but called his father instead.
Steve by posting well over 500 times in Feb. you are popping off without new learning. Take more time listening and we will all be better off.


01 Mar 21 - 08:10 AM (#4095490)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The conspiritorial gutterlism and the engineered repeatative sloganism are the Republican post hypnotic uggestions of today, same as yesterday.


01 Mar 21 - 08:16 AM (#4095492)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I would like to remind folks of the difficulty involved in making a psrody of a reality that is BEYOND parody. :^/


03 Mar 21 - 04:01 PM (#4095899)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Don'l:

You are being unusually logical. It doesn't suit you. We are so far beyond parody in an age of golden fiberglass idols wearing stars'n stripes shorts that we are in an age of parody PARITY. We ALL know that we are in an outrageous face-off, thus we need to maintain a level of outrageousness that out-parodies the other guy's parody. That does leave open simply holding up a mirror to some fiberglass golden skinned figure wearing stars'n stripes shorts.

That is why despite your machinegun posts and mendacious moods and proclivities for Dontrumpuel - isms you have your uses. You remind us, whether or not we need the reminding, of the kind of tactics used by the oppressors.

That is why I have yet to get tired of you (though I hope to, someday).


03 Mar 21 - 06:14 PM (#4095913)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"Steve should list his US indulgences like released classified intelligence regarding the Prince murder of Jamal or the effort for Saudi to normalize relations with Syria or Biden's refusal to speak to the prince but called his father instead.

Steve by posting well over 500 times in Feb. you are popping off without new learning. Take more time listening and we will all be better off."

I objected to this, and I object to the fact that some mod has deleted my objection. If you're going to delete my objection, mod, you should also consider deleting the post that I objected to. The last two lines of this are patronising and totally unjustified in their sentiment.


03 Mar 21 - 06:16 PM (#4095914)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Thank you I never understood what you meant. Now I simply don't care.
I am like antimatter in a Trump universe I suppose. Watch the movie Tenet and see how matter moving backwards in time behaves. Richard Feynman had a point.
Get one! :^/
50 F today


03 Mar 21 - 07:16 PM (#4095923)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Never saw Tenet. Any good?

Matter or Anti-Matter forgodsake not a Trmp universe. I'm still adapting to the Tom Clancy universe which started 09/11/2001.

Have pity on Steve. He still thinks there's rules (that don't apply to him).


03 Mar 21 - 07:26 PM (#4095926)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well there should be a rule that says that a bloody idiot shouldn't be able to advise you in a condescending way how to learn things.


03 Mar 21 - 07:51 PM (#4095930)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I feel remiss that I haven't given a link to one of the seminal art pieces of our time. Here is a slice of youtube showing the Trump golden statue creator wiping it down. I leave it to your imagination to figure out what he's cleaning it from, but I used the word 'seminal' purely in its metaphoric sense!


11 Apr 21 - 02:39 PM (#4101893)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

This past week, Republicans held a strategy where-are-we-now? meeting with their leader in exile, Donald 'the dumped' Trump.

This was at Mara Lago .

Trump's address departed prepared statements but as one might expect from, well, everything, was his attacks on Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence. The Republicans are not totally united, but the Republican party is still very much a party of Trump along with acolytes ready to steal, borrow, assume the mantle, with permission: current Florida Governor DeSantis and Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz.

I would love to say the plot 'sickens' but no, it's been pretty sick right along.


11 Apr 21 - 03:46 PM (#4101899)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

One does wish that the folks handling the prosecutorial end of things would move along a little faster. Now THAT'S the trial I want to see televised (whichever of them comes along first).


12 Apr 21 - 02:56 PM (#4102001)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I have a Musselliniesque fictional account in my head of the Q internet conspiracy turning against their Mr. Big and litterally tearing him apart in the most savage ways possible.
It would take less than two years and involves a revenge tell all book by Ivanka.


30 Apr 21 - 10:48 AM (#4104070)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Stilly River Sage, are you a constituent
in this North Texas special election?

Look who paid a visit.

Trump crashes final days of Texas special election


30 Apr 21 - 11:10 AM (#4104082)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Nope. Wright (who died of COVID-19 after ignoring all of the safety measures recommended) had a highly-gerrymandered district to the east and southeast of me. Mine is just as bad, though. Kay Granger has swallowed most of the GOP party line, with very few exceptions (she actually supported health care a couple of times, I think.)

I heard one of the stations play part of Trump's remarks following the speech to the joint house and senate group - the news folks really do need to stop referring to him so he can truly fade away and become irrelevant.


01 May 21 - 09:59 AM (#4104176)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The way to counter all the voting obstruction laws is to REQUIRE all voters to present a Vaccination card.
heh heh heh


01 May 21 - 03:03 PM (#4104213)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

Not a good idea Donuel partly because of the Tuskegee experiment and the hesitancy it created among African Americans - which I just heard about this week on an Australian ABC TV show - so there would possibly be a tendency for your idea to discriminate against them unintentionally.


02 May 21 - 12:17 PM (#4104331)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Tuskegee was a long time ago and is very well known here, and isn't a good reason to avoid offering the entire population some kind of proof-of-vaccination, passport or other. Instead, making sure that today's individuals from all ethnic and racial groups have equal access and good information. Transparency is called for. Before that happens, though, a couple of major federal laws have to pass that render toothless all of the GOP legislation popping up in states that is designed to exclude and disenfranchise voters. So the goal for all sorts of other fair laws coming into place is to get rid of the filibuster. And there are two senators who steadfastly want to hold their seats so are not agreeing to vote to remove the filibuster. Some things are larger than those jobs, but you need to convince them of that. There have been people who knew it would work against them who still voted to approve valuable legislation, but that kind of altruism is rare.


02 May 21 - 01:31 PM (#4104339)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Republicans have long demanded special voter ID cards. The 25% who are shunning vaccination are Republicans, ergo my earlier suggestion.

Putin has long said that elections are not determined by who votes for you but instaed, who counts the votes. The Cyber Ninjas are a trump-Q based group who is actually doing a vote recount of the Arizona ballots.
This akin to allowing only Republcans to vote.

round&round the vote polling place a poket full of ballots
But when only republicans can vote
POP goes democracy.


05 May 21 - 09:05 AM (#4104854)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Facebook's paid "panel" is going to decide whether to let Trump back on his Facebook account. They don't have anyone on that panel who really understands about disinformation and how destructive it is, so I fear the worst. Meanwhile, Trump started some kind of Wordpress blog to add to his website. That's his new "platform."

Facebook oversight board to give verdict on Donald Trump ban – live


05 May 21 - 09:28 AM (#4104866)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

So the panel/board says to let him stay off of the site (FB was Trump's most effective fundraiser site, why he wants back on so desperately) but that FB can't kick him off without some set of rules saying why or how long. Hmmmm. Private company, not bound by First Amendment . . . dicey.

Oversight Board upholds Trump's Facebook suspension


05 May 21 - 10:57 AM (#4104886)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

As far as I am concerned, now that the turnip is no longer in a position of power, he has been reduced to the same, laughable position as those like David Icke. With apologies for those who are struggling to deal with mental health issues, reading the turnip's posts is like it was paying to watch the inmates in the Bedlam Asylum..


05 May 21 - 12:24 PM (#4104896)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

We are so lucky that insurrectionists on January 6th did not fire upon Congress or burn down the building. It still serves as an opening of hostilities like Fort Sumter at the start of the civil war. There were no casualties during the Confederate bombardment of Fort Sumter at the start of the American Civil War. The only Union deaths came during the evacuation: One soldier was killed and another mortally wounded in an accidental explosion during a planned 100-gun salute. (so unlucky)
I am glad FB will not be a continual host of further hostilities.

The Supream Court has some monumental decisions to make. They could
propel a modern civil war over voting rights and new voter suppression laws that would insure minority rule.

I have long had the premonition of a civil war as a few of you know, I count our blessings that we are backing away from a Trump ivil war. After all we have already lost over half a million lives in the US. For perspectiv the bllodoest battle in the civilwar wa 23,000 at Shilo.
The total civil war deaths are 620,000 to 75o,000.

We continue to restore the capitol objects of art from their exspoure to feces and knives. I hope democracy itself can be restored.


07 May 21 - 03:14 PM (#4105189)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I don't think Trmp is out of power at all. Far from it. He has established his own eponymic web site and we have yet to see if he will make it a go-to place in the increasingly crazy netiverse.

Meanwhile, if you've been paying attention to the case of Liz Cheney in trying to maintain veracity and a sense of decency in the Republican sphere of 'thought', Trmp has decreed that she be replaced as Republican House leader by a Trmptard Representative, Elise Stefanik. More interesting, in that Trmp as a leader in retirement could be a deep betrayer in that he leads so many so wrong, but if they are so many enought, they re-define what is right, as they have been doing for several years now including a while Trmp term of office. Also interesting, is that Elise Stefanick did not start out as a Trmpist, but as a fairly interesting moderate conservative.

This is not all due to Trmp. This is an accumulation of Zero Sum tactics going back as far as Reagan, but mostly due to the "Gingrich Revolution" sustained by Mitch Mcconnell. The rhetoric has been supplemented by elements of the 'press'.

Just to say, there is a right-wing juggernaut out there. It is a loose but persistent agglomeration of interwoven irrationality that won't dissolve all at once like the dead walkers in the final episode of GOT despite Trmp's likeness to the Night King (apologies to Richard Brake!)


07 May 21 - 05:29 PM (#4105204)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I think it was you who said our institutions would prevent such a coup just about a year ago. I'm hoping you're right.


18 May 21 - 06:58 PM (#4106588)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It seems Devin Nunes feelings were hurt by mean Tweets.

Trump Justice Dept. Tried to Use Grand Jury to Identify Nunes Critic on Twitter

An unsealed court filing shows that the social media company fought the subpoena, which the Biden administration is said to have withdrawn.

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department under President Trump secretly obtained a grand-jury subpoena last year in an attempt to identify the person behind a Twitter account dedicated to mocking Representative Devin Nunes of California, according to a newly unsealed court document.

But Twitter fought the subpoena, as well as an associated gag order barring the company from talking about it publicly. Twitter executives raised skepticism about whether the Justice Department might be abusing federal criminal law-enforcement power to retaliate against a critic of Mr. Nunes, a Republican who is a close ally of Mr. Trump, in violation of the First Amendment.

Ultimately, according to a person familiar with the matter, the Justice Department withdrew the subpoena this spring, after President Biden took office.


18 May 21 - 07:15 PM (#4106594)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Poor Devin. I hear his wife is a Genie and his grandfather was the SS butcher of Cyprus. Mean tweets are the bane of his existence.


19 May 21 - 07:42 AM (#4106652)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

SDNY had their spokesperson announce that the Donald Trump Organization is now facing criminal charges.


22 May 21 - 09:17 AM (#4106990)
Subject: BS: Audit Fever break out
From: Donuel

In the Republican audit of the Trump defeat in Arizona in search of counterfeit ballots - which I call the Trump audit of the audit of the audit of the recount - The concept of republican election audits has caught fire and has spread to 12 other States by way of seminars conducted by Republican think tank 'Heritage Foundation'.

The audit idea may not end there. Results of every kind of contest may soon come into question, like baseball games reviewing balls and strikes by expert Q republicans. This could spread to the UK to review and decide football games post game. Maybe it will replace peer review in the science community. :^I It might take weeks to decide the winners of the Super Bowl. As for Basketball forgettaboutit.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona-audit-2020-election-recount-gop-maricopa-county/


01 Jun 21 - 12:40 PM (#4108439)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump's former National Security Advisor has called for a military coup in the USA similar to Miranmar.

General Flynn says he believes Trump will be reinstated by Aug.


01 Jun 21 - 01:00 PM (#4108447)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Netanyahu is on his way out - and perhaps headed to prison. Harbingers of things to come, one hopes.


01 Jun 21 - 03:03 PM (#4108460)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The flight to the right is still quivering and not yet ready to take a pendulum reversal of direction.
Like our pole shift, it occurs intermittantly and chaoticly before a full change of direction.
Bebe needs to spend more time with his pets and family. I'm pretty sure Argentina would permit his exile without extradition.
But I'm not certain.


02 Jun 21 - 01:38 AM (#4108509)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie

Who would have guessed that six months after the election there would still be talk of the legitimacy of it. I certainly did not. Oh, I accepted that the Orange One would still be bloviating but it never occurred to me that there would be a group of significant size.

Or that so many of our legislators would be such despicable creatures. As fiction it would be a bad play. As Real Life, it stinks.


03 Jun 21 - 02:41 PM (#4108649)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

in only 29 days
Poor ol Trump aka 'baby jesus' has closed his blog after it had less traffic than petfinder.com

The thing about lieing is that it can NEVER be confessed to be a lie.
The LIE must stay alive forever,
or it can suddenly die.

sounds like lyrics dontit?


04 Jun 21 - 05:09 AM (#4108703)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Ebbie, my GUESS is that if USA is stupid enough to re-elect him, he would not recognise the legitimacy/legality of the Biden administration, and would sign a raft of executive orders ranging from undoing the good of the next four years, to the downright insane, bypassing both houses.


04 Jun 21 - 05:23 AM (#4108705)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump isn't waiting for an election. He is still issuing presidential decrees and is planning a coup in August.
If I'm liein you're diein.


04 Jun 21 - 01:14 PM (#4108775)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Banned from Facebook for two years. Karma!


04 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM (#4108776)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ready aim FIRE, Republicans all fling their dirty underwear against the wall but they all slide off. Nothing is sticking to Biden so they are going to take aim at Dr. Fauci instead. You are about to see an attack on Fauci as never before.

Republicans who will do their worst will be Pompeo, McConnel and all the usual suspects who will take turns with their dagger.
Assasination politics no longer refers to reputation but to life itself.


FACEBOOK will ban Trump for 2 more years


04 Jun 21 - 01:23 PM (#4108779)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Maybe his diet of Big Macs and Diet Coke will kill him off by then and the topic will be moot.


07 Jun 21 - 06:57 AM (#4109151)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Reputation assasination politics has turned its guns at Dr. Fauci, possibly because republicans can't get anything to stick to Joe.


07 Jun 21 - 02:10 PM (#4109205)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The usual suspects have taken to character assassination of not only their own (Liz Cheney), but are heavily into throwing everything at Kamala Harris, similarly to their campaign, which I think was quite successful, against Hilary Clinton.


07 Jun 21 - 03:10 PM (#4109211)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

News flash: The US has the ability to go after ransomware criminals and steal back the money the criminals stole via breaking into bitcoin accounts. Supposedly this is what was done in the colonial pipeline attack.


09 Jun 21 - 06:34 PM (#4109527)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The sore loser party is supported by a Republican party who no longer can say the word insurrection out loud.

I say rip off the band aid. You don't want a drip drip drip story until 2024.

OBEY BIG
BROTHER T
WATCH FOX
4 FREE
or die


18 Jun 21 - 02:20 PM (#4110594)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Here is a truly marvelous outcome of Trump actions aided by actions of the Republican Party:

The inimitable Nina Totenberg reports from NPR on the recent Supreme Court judgment: OBAMACARE wins for the 3rd time at the Supreme Court

Stephen Colbert opined on this last night in his monologue- The Supreme Court found that the objection, posed by Republicans, that the Obamacare Legislation was unconstitutional had been foiled by Republican legislation opposing Obamacare.

Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett were part of the majority opinion.

This situation is rife with concentrated irony. I'm not aware if Trmp himself has or is able to comment intelligently on the phenomenon.


22 Jun 21 - 07:52 PM (#4111064)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is a touch of irony there but Supream Court decisions for dummies
would simply say that the republican plantiffs could not demonstrate any harm or damages so the court said "no way". ACA stands.

I do not see any charges against the rich and powerful yet but only the unwashed whitepower insurrectionists. Even Wiesenberg hasn't flipped yet. I would prefer prosecutions from the top down. I'll risk martyrdom
for the Donald.


23 Jun 21 - 08:50 AM (#4111105)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

After he punished and destroyed Kathy Griffin Trump thought his justice dept could kill SNL and Alec Baldwin.

Thou shall not mock ME
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-if-doj-fcc-could-punish-snl-after-mocking-report-2021-6


23 Jun 21 - 11:04 AM (#4111122)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Griffin shouldn't have backed down. She was within her comedic rights to do that. She weakened her brand when she buckled.


23 Jun 21 - 02:08 PM (#4111131)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

What was she to do, sue the secret service? Didn't they put her on the no fly, buy or cry list?
Class C entertainers/celebrites don't have a strong brand to begin with. Perhaps she could do Kraft artificial cheese commercials to go with her box of whine. Victimization became her brand but she bravely persisted. I prefer the courage of a George Carlin to a Lenny Bruce.


24 Jun 21 - 07:14 AM (#4111188)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Apron fat, sometimes called Dunlop's Syndrome, is a condition where obese people have abdominal fat subcutaneously detach and hangs loosely from the body. This is what has happened to Mr. Trump along with his 60 lb. weight gain since leaving the White House. This is evidenced by his recent appearence when people thought he was wearing his pants backwards. What looked like his backside was actually apron fat or Dunlop's Syndrome where his detached fat 'done lops over his belt'.


24 Jun 21 - 02:50 PM (#4111246)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I saw someone like that in 'bucks pre-Covid and I was assured he was packing (had a gun on his person) by someone who also had a gun on his person (in a holster). (There should be a thread about people who carry firearms to coffee shops). I saw no evidence of a weapon, but didn't want to be thought to be staring. Maybe that's a new way to carry - wear a fat suit or portion thereof. It was part of a murder plot in Monk, not the carrying part but the wearing of a fat suit.

If Trump has really packed on the pounds since being out of office, is that going to affect his 200 year life span ?


24 Jun 21 - 05:15 PM (#4111253)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Sorry to post after posting but some folks have no problem with that. Possibly Dontrumpuel, who indicated that the ex Prez has added 3 score of the avoirdupois since being 'fired' in January. According to this soure he has not put on pounds, he has been taking them off. The writer is scared that a trim Trmp is a re-electable Trmp.

Robo, who wonders how many spare pounds Dontrumpuel has to play with and if it is affecting his extra laps. Or lops. Maybe if there is no 'factual' weight to his posts, the weight is more 'actual'.


24 Jun 21 - 06:19 PM (#4111263)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I'll send you a photo if you dare open it, I'll be holding the newest Washington Post. No wrinkles full head of blonde hair and a 6ft 210 stature of good posture. The only life extending drug I take is Metformin. Like you, I avoid strong sunlight. Unlike you I'm straight.
I think Trump is closest to the Pearly gates In the middle of his next 24 campaign. After that he will be sent to L.


24 Jun 21 - 06:34 PM (#4111264)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

And now Rudolph Giuliani is having misconduct charges
broadcast across the nation.
What a day.


24 Jun 21 - 08:30 PM (#4111273)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

He is not disbarred yet but he is not allowed to pracice law in NY.
PA is next.

Pictures speak louder than words and the robo link had none. The picture of 'pants on backwards' is demonstrable of Donnies wt.gain.


24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM (#4111284)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Well, just saying, Dontrumpuel, YOU came up with the figure of 60 pounds of weight gain. So presumably you had a source. You have yet to Don-u-ment the posts I have called attention to.

Pictures may speak louder than words but sourced numbers speak louder .

Your little asides and add-ons to your posts full of assumptions stated as facts merely add to your Trumpiness. You are truly Trump's avatar in this forum.


25 Jun 21 - 07:25 AM (#4111320)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

You may still believe in the words from the Trumpiverse if you wish.
I elect Donald J Trump to be a contestant on the TV show 'The Sorest Loser'


25 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM (#4111359)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

What is very interesting and not being too much reported on is:

Those political and administrative holdings that have NOT changed between the Trump administration and the Biden administration. I'm following several items but right now I'm not sure if they can be considered things that the new administration is maintaining because:

A) They can't change them.
B) They don't want to change them.
C) They want to change them but the appearance of policy drift would be a greater penalty.

I'll never forget a conversation I had with some Africans many years ago (last millenium) where they credited the United States with being able to make progress in the world and within its borders because each new administration was willing to build on the work of the previous ones, even if they were different parties, whereas in their country and the ones they were familiar with, each new administration undid the work of the previous ones, either out of spite, ignorance, or the need to change the pockets absorbing the grift.


25 Jun 21 - 04:22 PM (#4111381)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

We will maintain a Trump evacuation of our troops and helpers from Afghanistan, we will NOT abandon Democracy and replace with kings for life. I know Qanon disagrees but thats just tough.
It is going to be a Biden withdrawl because Trump made no plan - only a declaration.
The rest of us need to understand white rage, white nationalism and the lure of Nazism the conservative junta lunatic fringe that attacked ourcapitol crapped in it and crept out when they couldn't find leaders to kill, hang or kidnap..

here is a quote from General Milley in his own words

Saying Trump did it is too easy. It may turn out that I am wrong but we have to defend having knowledge as opposed to accepting lies.
Why Milley has to defend knowledge is because of people like Tom Cotton, Matt Gaetz, Greene and the usual mediocre men are investigation our military as to who is the woke progressive soldiers they need to eliminate. There were 120 military officers who signed a
letter saying the election was fraudulent.

Similar to Hitlerism the enemy is being defined as the intellectuals or the well informed. Its not just the Blacks,Jews or Catholics.
The mouths of the MAGA maggots are spewing corrosive lies and their ears are sealed. When thy say something I can't understand it is a failure of their education, not mine. Those snowflake white men are incapable of taking critique, are capableofdolingout infamous repudiatons of the humanity of the other, yet they call us snowflakeswhilethey are the biggest flakes of snow on Earth. They are incapable of criticism, they are incapable of tolerating difference they are afraid that critical race theory will kill their KKK or relatives. They are allowed to wax and rant about means or rationality and reality yet they cannot evensave themselves with a vaccine shot. Iamtired of hearing mediocre white men excoriate women, trans, gays, and blacks or Anything that is not them.
We have to seize the discourse of empathy and go to a political gathering and take back the rhetoric of this country. I can read the fascist propoganda but it doesn't make me a white white rager and attack the capitol. Its necessary for us to be open minded and let the majority to take the lead because the white men like Josf hFawly and Mitch McConnel are fucking it up.


25 Jun 21 - 06:44 PM (#4111391)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

breaking news: The entire Trump Org. will be indicted next week by NY DA.
This is just an opening salvo by calling a bluff possibly because Weisenberg has not flipped.

now back to my unedited rushed rant...


25 Jun 21 - 07:32 PM (#4111398)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

here is a quote from General Milley in his own words
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007831214/milley-critical-race-theory-military.html


Saying Trump did it is too easy. Its the small men . It is the self serving liars who are frightening their herd of sheep. It may turn out that I am wrong but we now have to defend simply having knowledge as opposed to accepting lies.
Why Milley has to defend knowledge is because of people like Tom Cotton, Matt Gaetz, Greene and the usual mediocre men are investigation our military as to who are the woke progressive soldiers they need to eliminate. There were 120 military officers who signed a letter saying the election was fraudulent. This sounds like loyalists in favor of a coup.

Similar to Hitlerism the enemy is being defined as the intellectuals or the well informed. Its not just the Blacks, Jews or Catholics.
The mouths of the MAGA maggots are spewing corrosive lies and their ears are sealed. When they say something I can't understand it is a failure of their education, not mine. Those snowflake white men are incapable of taking critique, they are capable of infamous repudiatons of the humanity of the other, yet they call us snow flakes while they are the biggest flakes of snow on Earth. They are incapable of criticism, they are incapable of tolerating difference, they are afraid that critical race theory will kill their KKK, oathkeepers or relatives. They are allowed to wax and rant about conspiracy or rationality and reality yet they cannot even save themselves with a vaccine shot. I am tired of hearing mediocre white men excoriate women, trans, gays and blacks or Anything that is not them.
We have to seize the discourse of empathy and go to political gatherings and take back the rhetoric of this country. I can read the fascist propoganda but it doesn't make me a white white nationalist and attack the capitol. Its necessary for us to be open minded and let the true majority take the lead because the white men like Josh Hawley and Mitch McConnel are flubbing it up.


27 Jun 21 - 09:55 AM (#4111581)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

MçMacafee reminds me how Trump could meet his end, if he had the courage.


27 Jun 21 - 10:19 AM (#4111583)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

Gen. Milley believes in knowing his enemy.

Those who criticize him for his habit of wide-ranging reading might meet the definition of “enemy”.

Just sayin’.


27 Jun 21 - 10:41 AM (#4111587)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The "can't change them" policies are still getting a stress test, I think. For example, I hope soon the Postal board of governors fires DeJoy; Biden can't, only the board can, and he has the majority of board members now. Please do it soon - the post office needs a lot of recovery help.

It sounds like Attorney General Garland has taken the reigns after studying things for a while and is gradually clearing out Trump appointees (some may simply be reassigned because they can't be fired) and is now starting the sue the states with the discriminatory voting laws just put into effect. See Georgia as the first of what I hope will be many.

Biden can't do everything at once, and not with just his pen. It's better if legislation is in place, and better if the agencies can do their jobs. More durable. Too bad we can't erase Trump.


27 Jun 21 - 04:24 PM (#4111636)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I still think the observation of what 'hasn't changed' is worth careful observation. It goes away from Trump a little, in that it is a show of what Democrats either are 'afraid to touch' or 'glad it happened':

Of course the Supreme Court selections:
Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett. I don't think the issue of 'packing the court' is a realistic one. There are multi-sided face-offs here:
Fear-mongering Republicans either Trummpies or none
Progressive Dems raising the issue
Centrist Dems not pressihng the issue

Since the current face-off within the court is 6-3 in favor of what are considered the conservatives over the liberals, packing the court to reverse this perception would require a 7-6 selection to say the least, so we'd have to go from 9 to 13 justices to make a 'worthwhile' political difference, which means getting the change made and getting four new justices. I do not see this as even close to realistic. It may have made sense for the Democrats to leave this option theoretically on the table prior to a general election in order to keep the Progressives with the Centrists (I am bundling everyone not a Progressive into the Centrist category), but I don't think this issue plays out in local politics anywhere. So as far as Democrats go, until a general election, it's gone.


28 Jun 21 - 01:39 PM (#4111721)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

D.C. Prosecutors Set Their Targets on Don Jr.’s Posse

Recent filings made by the AG’s office show that the probe is starting to home in on the actions of Trump’s longtime financial confidant and others.

“The world’s about to learn how Trump’s inner circle—with Trump’s full knowledge—took advantage of the presidential inauguration,” said Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who helped put together inaugural events and is now a lead witness for the government in this case.

“Everything they did was all about self-dealing. They had a nonprofit pay them for their own hotel at an inflated cost,” she told The Daily Beast.

I've been reading Winston Wolkoff's book - she has done some amazing organizing in the past, but the Trump folks brought her in then ignored her recommendations and shoveled money into their own coffers as fast as they could, hoping apparently to leave her holding the bag. She kept detailed records, she kept receipts. And when she wrote the book, she basically goes step by step through what happened. And Melania is as corrupt as the rest of them, though she supposedly had Winston Wolkoff come in as a favor to her. For a while it was Melania trying to wrest control of some of it from the kids, but it wasn't really.
“I didn’t understand why anything was being done for the kids. It’s not a birthday party. This is for the United States of America swearing in the most powerful executive in the world,” Winston Wolkoff, who said she had to awkwardly jockey to block the creation of events that were clearly self-dealing, like Junior’s hunting-themed “Sportsman’s Ball” and Ivanka’s “Ladies Luncheon.”

“Why is Ivanka bringing together 100 influential women when she’s not on the Cabinet?” she said. “These kids were doing events for themselves... by them, for them, with them... with other people’s money meant for a nonprofit.”


28 Jun 21 - 02:45 PM (#4111723)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

SRS: Looks like an interesting book. I had not considered Melania in the same ethical zone as her mate and his kin. One of my goto guys back during the campaign classified her as an abused woman (and this does not negate that poss/probability) and she kinda went off my smell radar.

And, apropos of Melania's entrance to the thread:

"Kill him in front of me and I sex you"


28 Jun 21 - 04:17 PM (#4111739)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Donald is too çhicken to fight
And don't call me Leslie.


28 Jun 21 - 10:52 PM (#4111764)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Ivanka as a culprit in the Trump White House affair of Who stashed the missing $160 Million:

Documents Show Ivanka Trump Didn’t Testify Accurately in Inauguration Scandal Case


30 Jun 21 - 01:03 PM (#4111911)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I see Trump as a Bill Cosby, guilty as hell but is now free due to a technicality.


30 Jun 21 - 05:25 PM (#4111932)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg Expected to Be Charged Thursday

Wall Street Journal has a paywall, so here's the first part of the article:
The Manhattan district attorney’s office is expected to charge the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer with tax-related crimes on Thursday, people familiar with the matter said, which would mark the first criminal charges against the former president’s company since prosecutors began investigating it three years ago.

Any charges against the Trump Organization and Allen Weisselberg, the company’s longtime chief financial officer, would be a blow to former President Donald Trump, who has fended off multiple criminal and civil probes during and after his presidency. But the initial charges won’t implicate Mr. Trump himself, his lawyer said, falling short of expectations about the high-profile probe that included a battle over his tax returns decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in the prosecutors’ favor.

The defendants are expected to appear in court on Thursday, the people said.

The Trump Organization and Mr. Weisselberg are expected to face charges related to allegedly evading taxes on fringe benefits, the people said. For months, the Manhattan district attorney’s office and New York state attorney general’s office have been investigating whether Mr. Weisselberg and other employees illegally avoided paying taxes on perks—such as cars, apartments and private-school tuition—that they received from the Trump Organization.


30 Jun 21 - 09:24 PM (#4111955)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

No bank in the world loans money to companies under indictment.


01 Jul 21 - 12:13 AM (#4111970)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Oh, look! Jared Kushner is going to publish ‘definitive’ book on Trump presidency. Perhaps it will end up in a boxed set with the blank pages of Sarah Palin: Going Rouge (yes, "rouge," not "rogue.") Two novelty books.


01 Jul 21 - 06:00 AM (#4111981)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Can't wait to read the musings of an incompetent dilettante slumlord.


01 Jul 21 - 10:03 AM (#4111996)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/timeline-on-jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-avenue-and-white-house-policy/


01 Jul 21 - 12:39 PM (#4112012)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

America the land that never was but must be. Villains and heros come and go. Today again it has a national idea that is grafted to a shadow. The world is a better place to merely dream of an America despite the occaisional nightmares.


01 Jul 21 - 05:08 PM (#4112035)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The High Court said "to protect our elections from fraud, States may make laws to protect their elections. If it is claimed that those laws discriminate against a race - it must be proven."

wHERE IS THE PROOF OF FRAUD?
So it looks like new voting laws in arizona will be allowed.


01 Jul 21 - 07:02 PM (#4112050)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Someone needs to light a fire under Manchin and Sinema.


02 Jul 21 - 08:29 PM (#4112153)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Meanwhile, Trmp isn't the worst ever, merely the worst in our lifetime.


03 Jul 21 - 12:19 AM (#4112166)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Yes, I would have named Andrew Johnson. What. A. Putz. But so is Trump.

I'd love to see this: Trump's children will not remain loyal to him like Allen Weisselberg has, his niece Mary says. A race to the bottom, to see who can get less jail time by flipping on The Donald.


03 Jul 21 - 07:15 AM (#4112181)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

witch hunt
bitch hunt
the dog
buries his bone
live by the lie
die by the lie.
its time for him to go


03 Jul 21 - 07:50 AM (#4112182)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

BIG lie Alitto says
elections are a fraud
States may overturn them
so Republicans can applaud.


03 Jul 21 - 06:08 PM (#4112231)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

How can we miss you
If you won't go away?


03 Jul 21 - 06:26 PM (#4112232)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Save the Whale Billionaires, don't make them pay taxes too.


04 Jul 21 - 02:06 PM (#4112299)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

(sigh)


04 Jul 21 - 05:48 PM (#4112318)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Apparently Sonic the Hedgehog is making mincemeat of a new attempt at a Trump social media site.

Sonic Smut Is Flooding Trump’s New Social Network

The Trump-Friendly ‘GETTR’ Is Apparently Being Overrun With NSFW Images Of Sonic The Hedgehog


04 Jul 21 - 08:10 PM (#4112329)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I am speachless, impeachless, bleachless and clueless as to the form of a social media response to yet another failed Trump internet site.


06 Jul 21 - 01:08 PM (#4112495)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The indictment last week telegraphed to the Trump organization and to Ivanka in particular that she is next on the hit list: Ivanka Trump could be the next target for Manhattan's district attorney, according to a former federal prosecutor

Good. And nail her obnoxious brothers also.


07 Jul 21 - 07:53 AM (#4112597)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mary Trump agrees Ivanka is first to flip. ?!


07 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM (#4112599)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

What do you call an insurrectionist in a suit?
The defendant.
500 so far.


07 Jul 21 - 05:52 PM (#4112662)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Google SUED
Facebook SUED
Twitter SUED
by Trump today


07 Jul 21 - 06:03 PM (#4112663)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

also the color blue, the letter B and the constitution.


08 Jul 21 - 11:09 PM (#4112743)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg has been terminated as the director of one of Trump's golf courses in Scotland

A notice filed on Thursday with Companies House, the UK registry of private companies, showed that Weisselberg had been terminated as a director of Trump International Golf Club Scotland, a holding company that owns Trump's Aberdeenshire golf resort, Trump International Golf Links.


09 Jul 21 - 03:53 PM (#4112799)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

One of my 'theories' on Trmp is that anyone who relies on him lives to regret it. Curious about long-termer Weisselberg's relationship. Is he employee, hiree, long-time associate, partner? Multiple ties? Likely to be caught doing illegal stuff or so long term and experienced that he has a map of the minefield or minefields of his own.

Never heard of the guy until last week.


09 Jul 21 - 06:07 PM (#4112810)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As robo says I am ghost writting Trmp's next book 'The Art of the Coup.'


10 Jul 21 - 01:18 AM (#4112835)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Now might be a good time for you to read Mary Trump's book, robo. It isn't very long and it draws a map to all of the players. I haven't finished the book Melania and Me about the scam of the millions donated for the Trump inauguration, but it is still timely. Millions went walkabout and the Trumps viewed those donated dollars as a family slush fund. Stephanie, former friend of Melania, kept meticulous notes. She has the receipts.


10 Jul 21 - 09:25 AM (#4112857)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mary's files and book was the first step in the current investigation and indictments. The roots of her files surround penetrate the corruption and evil that grow beneath the Trump tree of thorns.


10 Jul 21 - 12:12 PM (#4112870)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

She retrieved the tax documents from her attorneys who had two sets of them. Sometimes it's good to be a packrat.


10 Jul 21 - 12:33 PM (#4112871)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Malfeasance by his appointees - no surprise at all:

A Report Clears Federal Officials Who Were Suspended By A Trump Appointee Over VOA

"What is shocking are [the inspector general's] discovery of the many more ways Pack and his political appointees – while running USAGM for a mere six months – managed to break the law, abuse authority, endanger public health and safety and grossly mismanage the agency," Seide said in a statement.

During his tenure, Pack gave interviews to conservative and pro-Trump news outlets saying he wanted to "drain the swamp" at Voice of America.


10 Jul 21 - 05:49 PM (#4112892)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

They were family friends of ours. She was heroic, the appointee was an ass.


11 Jul 21 - 01:56 PM (#4112975)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

DonTrumpuel. When you make personal references, I want details. You are too prone to fabrication or probably in your terms, poetic elaboration. But too often you exceed reality. And your tendency to resemble the subject Trmp while useful to the fabric of this thread can also confuse poor folks like me who often regard themselves as tied to reality.

So whoe were family friends? And who was the appointee. In the manner of a famous lawyer (who was a family friend), "Don't fabricate; elaborate!"


11 Jul 21 - 02:32 PM (#4112978)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I assumed he was speaking about Pack; he lives in Washington, D.C. or environs.


12 Jul 21 - 06:51 AM (#4113032)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

heh heh its funny robo thinks what he wants, matters to me.
You'd be happier if you found someone who it does matter to.
Just laugh at the show and the way it goes.
Times are super Orwellian among the melanin deprived and melatonin overdosed.


12 Jul 21 - 07:49 AM (#4113039)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Back in 2006 the christian right cried out for curing AIDS in Africa and a cure for world poverty but they have gone downhill in membership since. Now they cheer the message to do nothing to save their life with vaccine and worship an amoral Trmp. The celebration that they got their guy in the white house is waning and attract mostly the criminal nazi and KKK. It takes 10 to 15 years for the terminally misinformed to see clearly again. Make America See Clearly Again MASCA.


12 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM (#4113042)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Action: Trump screams BOYCOTT BASEBALL for moving the All Star game to CO. from Georgia due to voting laws.

Effect: Body Armor. 16 guns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition were found in hotel room accross from the Baseball stadium.


12 Jul 21 - 12:11 PM (#4113067)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There was a crooked man
who always acted pissed
He had alot of crooked fans
that hate spics and rapists

There was a crooked man,
and he sold crooked plots,
He found a crooked dollar
in all the crooked slots ;

He found a crooked cat
which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all got really fat
in a huge crooked house.


12 Jul 21 - 02:08 PM (#4113079)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Here's a Trump appointee who hoped to burrow in like a tick and keep damaging the Social Security Administration. Biden kicked out the top two guys, but the top one says he isn't leaving.

Biden clears out Trump picks at the Social Security Administration
Following a Supreme Court ruling, Biden fired Trump's top officials at the Social Security Administration. Andrew Saul, however, doesn't intend to leave.

Saul, however, apparently disagrees. In fact, the Trump appointee told the Washington Post late last week that, as far as he's concerned, Biden can't fire him. Saul added that he intends to keep working this morning, as if his ouster hadn't happened.

I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Social Security Administration, but I assume the relevant officials have canceled his login and limited his access to the building. I also assume Saul will soon file some kind of lawsuit testing the legality of the White House's decision.


One hopes so!


12 Jul 21 - 02:22 PM (#4113081)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

CORRECTION: wITH THE AMOUNT OF heroin, Meth and eCTAsY the FBI says the guns at the All Star Baseball Stadium is just the usual drug sales hotel stay. cRAZY DAYS of summer.


12 Jul 21 - 03:02 PM (#4113088)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

That last post looks like it was destined for a different thread?


13 Jul 21 - 06:29 AM (#4113194)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It relates to the 8:04 am post about boycott baseball.
Its probably NOT baseball terrorism but just a drug deal.


15 Jul 21 - 05:33 PM (#4113465)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

In the meantime Trump has apparently tried to take credit for the successful Branson suborbital fllight. He 'paved the way' for them.


15 Jul 21 - 06:33 PM (#4113468)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I try to confine my biggest whoppers to MOAB but a trmp asphalt paving to space is a super whopper. I'm sure donnie is pointing to some political tweet to back up his claim.


15 Jul 21 - 10:29 PM (#4113484)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

He's a sociopath who has a lot of enablers who keep repeating what he says in places where he can see it. I'm sure he has one Google Alert set up - for his own name.


15 Jul 21 - 10:42 PM (#4113487)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

"REICHSTAG MOMENT"



Comes now a new book including observations from Gen. Milley, who was head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Saying that late in the Trmp term he was appointing buddies to major positions and causing fears among the high staff that he would try something akin to a 'Wag the Dog' strategy. My jaded old movie memory went back to "Seven Days in May".

Trump's reaction was predictable:

“Sorry to inform you, but an Election is my form of ‘coup,’” Trump said, “and if I was going to do a coup, one of the last people I would want to do it with is General Mark Milley.”


15 Jul 21 - 11:22 PM (#4113489)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

There are several really interesting books coming out this month. I just bought a Kindle version of First Friends talking about a number of presidents and their long-term friends. And interestingly enough, they said that Trump doesn't have a best friend. He's the poorer for it.


16 Jul 21 - 08:14 AM (#4113516)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

You can attest to the fact that I was talking like Mark Milley over a year ago. Many years ago I warned of a Civil War but I was four square wrong about people being unwilling to die for Trump. They are doing it by the thousands thanks to the help from Facebook vaccine experts.


16 Jul 21 - 11:20 AM (#4113529)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

At one time Christiane Northrup was a well-respected feminist-oriented ob/gyn. I have a couple of her books from 20-30 years ago. Now she's gone into the Dark Side with her LaLaLand nonsense and puts her whole career into question. And Mercola - he's just plain criminally wrong in the stuff he promotes. I don't know WTF is going on with the Kennedy scion.

The Dirty Dozen from Salon. This story from NPR.


16 Jul 21 - 02:41 PM (#4113553)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Times have brought great changes in technology. Back a generation ago there were fewer information streams and a greater consensus on what constituted truth versus news. Different sources had different values of believability. Mark Twain said: "Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it." Now, information is cheap and plentiful. And everyone can contribute. It is sent out in broad spigots. So "the truth is out there" but it is to be found severely diluted.


16 Jul 21 - 05:03 PM (#4113564)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Truth is its not just white nationalist Trumpers
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-right-wing-extremists-have-infiltrated-german-security-forces


23 Jul 21 - 09:31 AM (#4114151)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Waffen SS would lovingly escort Jews into employment facilities.
They were a very loving crowd. The SS would hug and kiss Jews touring the ground. You don't see this now. Likewise the capitol police...


23 Jul 21 - 10:03 AM (#4114156)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

No surprise now that the details of the Kavanaugh hearings are being revealed. FBI says it got more than 4,500 tips on Kavanaugh, providing ‘relevant’ ones to Trump White House
. . . where they were immediately quashed.
The exact number of tips was disclosed in a June 30 letter released by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse on Thursday. The letter was in response to a two-year-old request from Senate Democrats seeking more information about the handling of the investigation.

The revelation reignited fierce accusations from liberals who say that the FBI and the Trump White House did not sufficiently examine allegations against Kavanaugh in the wake of accusations from Dr. Christine Blasey Ford that he had sexually assaulted her at a party in the Maryland suburbs when they were both in high school.

The allegations nearly derailed his confirmation, and Kavanaugh has always fiercely denied them. Kavanaugh was ultimately confirmed by a vote of 50-48.


23 Jul 21 - 10:05 AM (#4114158)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

From the New York Times:
In an interview, Mr. Whitehouse said the F.B.I.’s response showed that the F.B.I.’s handling of the accusations into misconduct by Mr. Kavanaugh was a sham. Ms. Tyson’s letter, Mr. Whitehouse said, suggested that the F.B.I. ran a “fake tip line that never got properly reviewed, that was presumably not even conducted in good faith.”

Mr. Whitehouse and six of his Democratic colleagues on the Senate Judiciary Committee replied to the F.B.I.’s letter on Wednesday with demands for additional details on the agreement with the White House that governed the inquiry. They also pressed for more information on how incoming tips were handled.

“Your letter confirms that the F.B.I.’s tip line was a departure from past practice and that the F.B.I. was politically constrained by the Trump White House,” the senators wrote. Among those signing the letter were Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the committee’s chairman, Mr. Coons and Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey.


23 Jul 21 - 11:19 AM (#4114167)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

I know I don't know enough about US politics and I was probably expecting too much but can anyone explain to me why he has not been locked up yet?


23 Jul 21 - 12:01 PM (#4114169)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

He's slippery as a frog. He's been flim-flamming government organizations, banks, contractors and individuals for about fifty years and has become adept at leaving someone else holding the bag.


23 Jul 21 - 08:19 PM (#4114207)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Couple things I'm curious about:

Regarding Kavanaugh, I recall that some of the Senators were willing to wait for an FBI report to be made prior to the confirmation vote. That sounded like a formal work product. Are these recent revelations indicating that that was a sham? Yeah, I know how naive that question might appear.

Re: the slippery one presumably Trump. This is based on what I remember hearing over the last year. But it's that Trump does not do e-mail. He leaves precious little personal documentation out there. Interesting in comparison to his 'rule via twitter' practise when he was in office.

There is plenty written about Trmp, including the aggressive use of lawyers and suits against his creditors ("Where's My Roy Cohn?"). He is a long time scrapper in a business environment that filters out a certain type of 'success'. But maybe not success as most of us expect.


23 Jul 21 - 11:56 PM (#4114214)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Thats why a recording of his phone calls have proved obstruction and lead to impeachments except in the eyes of Republican Senators. His call to Georgia's AG to change voting results
was also impeachable but he was no longer president then.


24 Jul 21 - 04:48 AM (#4114231)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

If you're referring to the phone call to the Georgia A.G. in which he said “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have,”,that took place on Jan. 2 of this year when he was still in office.


24 Jul 21 - 04:53 AM (#4114232)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

correction: the call in question was to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, not the AG.


24 Jul 21 - 08:23 AM (#4114242)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Correct on both accounts gilly. I was too weary to double check. It turns out that Georgia was not the only state official he called to change votes prior to Jan. 6th. Its hard to say what was plan A or B since Jan 6 had been in the works for weeks or even months. Trump was ready to go big or go home. In the end he did both.


24 Jul 21 - 08:23 AM (#4114243)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Correct on both accounts gilly. I was too weary to double check. It turns out that Georgia was not the only state official he called to change votes prior to Jan. 6th. Its hard to say what was plan A or B since Jan 6 had been in the works for weeks or even months. Trump was ready to go big or go home. In the end he did both.


24 Jul 21 - 08:43 AM (#4114246)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Best not to double click submit.
As a denominator to every post; I have faith in each and every one, more than a diety. Its kind of a Hindu concept that god is in everyone which is why they bow with prayer hands to each other in India. It just might take Trump 42 lifetimes to finally do the right thing, but even he could be redeemed given enough time. As for his followers who paid the ultimate price for believing his lies, I wish them and theirs get special dispensation. Flagellation won't help but sometimes it is tempting to whip the idiots.


24 Jul 21 - 10:42 AM (#4114252)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As for Trump and Mc Connel, they are not a Hitler and Goering war machine and his merry band of insurrectionists who rule by the anti democratic mob are not the SS trained from childhood in loyalty to a man god. We may lose voting democracy but failure is not fatal and success is not final. We the people will continue on.
"We may learn to change our minds or the minds of others, for those who never change their minds, never change anything." quote Winston Churchill.


26 Jul 21 - 06:14 PM (#4114475)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

Philip Bump on Donald Trump   (you can't make THAT up)
and the audience for the fringe mass media.

Washington Post: Donald Trump finally has what he always wanted


27 Jul 21 - 04:59 PM (#4114558)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Justice Department Clears Way For Trump Officials To Testify About Jan. 6

The Justice Department has notified former government officials that it has consulted with the White House counsel's office and that it "would not be appropriate to assert executive privilege with respect to communications with former President Trump and his advisers and staff on matters related to the committee's proposed interviews," according to a person who has read the letter from department official Bradley Weinsheimer.

The decision could clear a path for former Justice Department officials to testify about an attempt to oust then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and replace him with someone sympathetic to the former president's baseless arguments about election fraud in the days before the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

But the decision also could portend court challenges by Trump and others with whom he talked on Jan. 6, the person said.


Bold emphasis mine. They will probably try to say that what they know is still exclusive and needs to be not spoken to protect Trump. This is saying "don't try it."


28 Jul 21 - 02:04 PM (#4114645)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I think this may be appropriate for some of the legislation in regards to all this:

"Laws are like sausages. It is better not to see them being made."

Otto Von Bismarck


02 Aug 21 - 10:34 AM (#4115131)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Remember Alexander Vindman? Testified in Trump's first impeachment hearing, then he and his twin brother were evicted from jobs in the White House and Trump tried to bring him up on charges? He as written a book.

What I Heard in the White House Basement
I knew the president had clear and straightforward talking points—I’d written them.

By Alexander Vindman

This article basically recounts the events of the Trump conversation with the newly-elected president of Ukraine, and how he and others responded to the shift in policy that was intended to get Trump re-elected. It covers the events discussed in the impeachment hearing.

In my life, that quiet inner voice has been a real person: my brother. Our unique relationship was about to matter more than it ever had before. The walk that morning from the White House basement up to my brother’s office is pretty much a blur but I do remember looking around the conference room when the meeting broke up, knowing that others, including my boss, had heard what I’d heard. In that moment, I realized something right away. Nobody else was going to say anything about it. I was the person most knowledgeable about and officially responsible for the portfolio. If I didn’t report up the chain of command what I knew, no one might ever find out what the president was up to with Ukraine and the 2020 U.S. election. That’s why I went straight to Yevgeny’s office.


04 Aug 21 - 08:24 PM (#4115424)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump, his loyalists and appointees are like the founding fathers in one key way. They know they have to hang together or they will certainly hang seperately.
Begining with Jeffery Clark...


05 Aug 21 - 06:15 PM (#4115541)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I'm listening right now (Thursday 20210805) to Terry Gross of Fresh Air interviewing Jane Mayer of The New Yorker who wrote:
New Yorker's "The Big Money Behind The Big Lie"

The NPR site related is: Fresh Air - The Dark Money Effort to Win at All Costs


05 Aug 21 - 06:50 PM (#4115544)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Here we are in August, the very month Trump says he is to be reinstated. (There's no constitutional mechanations to reinstate anybody)
Did America come close to a Trump coup? Yes closer than one or two people intervening to not perform unlawful acts close.
100 million $ says Trump will win this time around, truth be damned again.

Vaccination fears are waining but stupid arguements still arise such as Elvis got vaccinated in the Army and now he's dead.


05 Aug 21 - 09:16 PM (#4115561)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

"We can't keep trying to outrun this thing or llo anyone to rewrite this thing; e've got to turn around and face it, defeat it once and for all. if all we do is turn away and hope it fades, it will just keep getting stronger until it kills us all."

Capitol policeman Mike Fanome who survived Jan. 6 attack.


05 Aug 21 - 10:54 PM (#4115567)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/05/heres-roadmap-justice-department-follow-investigating-trump/


05 Aug 21 - 11:41 PM (#4115572)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I wonder what all of the Trump plants in federal agencies are doing these days?


06 Aug 21 - 08:59 AM (#4115606)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I can answer that. A political appointee is considered to be a Schedule C. The schedule C appointees are only for the duration of the president who did the appointment. They are having a hard time finding jobs since they usually go back into think tanks like Heritage, Patrick Henry, and other repub sanctuaries. Right now those places aren't hiring like they used to. Bannon and Miller are the new sanctuaries. They can 'burrow in' by trying to get a job by applying for a Fed job with an agency. They have a right to apply but no rights to automatically be hired. The Post Office position you know about is not a schedule C. People hired by advise and consent of the Senate are not immune from being fired and replaced unless they are part of the judiciary like a Supream Court Judge. Former lawyers appointed to the Justice Department by Trump are outta there unless they 'burrowed in'.


07 Aug 21 - 01:53 PM (#4115724)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The most recent Trump rump effect is the apparent U.S. abandonment of a secular Afghanistan. After 20 years, this is nothing less than the loss of the U.S.s longest war.

I am not arguing that Trump lost the War. It could be interpreted that Trump recognized that the War was unwinnable or not worth the cost of winning, so he instituted negotiations with the Taliban. Which has been continued under the current Biden administration either because there is a certain momentum to the events, or because they in fact agree that after 100s of billions of dollars and hundreds of American lives and tens of thousands of Afghan lives, the situation is not going to change in direction.

This is politically interesting because I think the Trumpistas will argue that the Democrats lost the war during the coming elections.

And of course the world will take notice of the events as a sign of American further loss of world dominance. Which Trump didn't cause but definitely symbolized.


07 Aug 21 - 06:06 PM (#4115749)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

SAVE THE TRUMP ANTIVAXERS

vaccinate them in their sleep.


07 Aug 21 - 07:49 PM (#4115769)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I expressed my concerns regarding Trump getting elected or reelected and my friends expressed their concerns that his recent twits and comments have been irrational, particularly regarding the Olympics. Unfortunately his irrationality has been a popular plus for him among his adherents.


07 Aug 21 - 10:31 PM (#4115774)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Most of his irrationalities are walked back as being his brand of humor, usually on the caustic or vitriolic side. If you have an example we could judge for ourselves.


09 Aug 21 - 09:03 PM (#4115989)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the disastrous intervention in Afghanistan. Bush II started it, Obama reinforced failure in the most wasteful way available to him, Trump ignored it except when he felt like meddling and ended up under-cutting diplomats and military commanders alike, and now Biden is cutting the country’s losses while he can.

Anybody would think Vietnam had been erased from the national memory.

Incidentally, I note that Gitmo is still operating.


10 Aug 21 - 07:07 AM (#4116026)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Charmion. It's a national failure, and we're spending more media on the Governor of New York being all touchy.


10 Aug 21 - 08:00 AM (#4116029)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

SAVE THE TRUMP ANTIVAXERS

vaccinate them in their sleep.


I saw a quote recently :     "We are increasing the collective IQ, one anti-vaxxer at a time"

BTW A guy by the name of Matt Braynard is telling the Trumpeters to return to the Capitol on Sept 18th - Video before 5:30 - inset clip


10 Aug 21 - 04:18 PM (#4116075)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

New York Times says Cuomo is resigning. Another news cycle....


11 Aug 21 - 03:17 AM (#4116130)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

Charmion. It's a national failure, and we're spending more media on the Governor of New York being all touchy

Paraphrasing Woody Allen - "Workplace sexual harassment - is a touchy subject"


11 Aug 21 - 06:46 AM (#4116146)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mr. Red I had always assumed you were a Brit. Thats the failure of my assumptions minus facts. If we assume the insurrectionists are coming on the 18th but they show up a week early on Sept 11 th , imagine the embarrassment. Imagine the mixed crowd on the 20th anniversity of 9-11.


11 Aug 21 - 09:09 AM (#4116159)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A Mr. Red reprise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-WVPkRBgQ

I am of two minds. One I believe Trumpism is a real ongoing threat and Two I believe a socialogical pendulum will find a sensible balance again.


12 Aug 21 - 08:30 PM (#4116353)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Cartoon of 'Red State Covid testing'
-image of 6 people rubbing nasal swabs on Magic 8 balls.-


13 Aug 21 - 05:51 PM (#4116444)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Dennis Montgomery - con man cyber ninja data source con man for Trump

PBS greatest hoax in history


13 Aug 21 - 07:25 PM (#4116456)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

"From: Donuel - PM
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 06:46 AM

... If we assume the insurrectionists are coming on the 18th but they show up a week early on Sept 11 th , imagine the embarrassment. Imagine the mixed crowd on the 20th anniversity of 9-11."

Now its official Home Land Security has issued a terror alert for 9-11 for the various reasons I noted above.


16 Aug 21 - 03:01 AM (#4116685)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

Although I am a fervent non-believer is conspiracy theories but the turnip's prediction that he would be back in the Whitehouse by August and the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan is one pretty big coincidence.


16 Aug 21 - 04:21 AM (#4116693)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red

Mr. Red I had always assumed you were a Brit

Yeeeeeees Donuel, But more importantly English, and there is a higher nationalism - I am a Staffordshireman.

To tell the truth, the cartoon that is the GOP currently holds entertainment that allows me to larf at the screen. Trumpeters like M T-G & Matt Gaetz cannot be real - please tell me it is a game show.
I do it in preference to following the minutia of our own philandering, turncoat strawhead, where I would be yelling at the TV and unable to relax the rest of the day.

But I can claim 2% American, from my Grandparents & family, (inc mother) who lived in Braddock, Allegheny County, PA for several years covering WW1. As a side note my grandfather found in discussion with his steelmen colleagues - he was the only one to NOT sleep with a gun under his pillow!


16 Aug 21 - 07:01 AM (#4116707)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Red, There is such an increase of nationalism (Brexit-Germany neo nazis-Hungary-America 1st-Poland) that hearing your cosmopolitan viewpoint is practically rare. Its like a bridge cracking prior to a collapse.

Allegheny is a region like the Catskills and geologically part of the most ancient mountain chain on Earth, now worn down to a stub, that stretches all the way to Scotland. I grew up in those olde hills.

The trump withdrawl from Afghanistan has become a titanic ship of state sinking and only the crew is rescued. However for 1,000's of years defeat is always inevitable for invaders.


16 Aug 21 - 08:13 AM (#4116715)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The Afghanistan withdrawal fiasco has absolutely stuffed Joe Biden. You'd better hurry up and get Trump in jail, otherwise he'll be back.


16 Aug 21 - 08:19 AM (#4116717)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Afghanistan stuffed Alexander the Great, Russian leaders, USA leaders and Christianity. Its like the Crusades. It was all foreseeable.


16 Aug 21 - 08:28 AM (#4116720)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Which doesn't change the message. Either you get Trump behind bars or else he's your next president.


16 Aug 21 - 08:39 AM (#4116721)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

I keep hoping that tRump will come down with something quickly fatal, such as a massive cerebral haemorrhage.

Anyone with the brains God gave a goose saw the fall of Kabul coming from the start, nearly 20 years ago. I vividly remember looking at my husband across the breakfast table and the newspapers; as he lifted his eyes, we said in chorus, "What could possibly go wrong?"

Of course, both of us were raised on Kipling.

During the 2020 campaign, Mr Biden stated that he did not expect to serve more than one term. Honestly, I can't see any likely successor coming up behind him, do you?

By "likely successor", I do not mean tRump.


17 Aug 21 - 05:50 PM (#4116898)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, anyone with even a modest understanding of history knows that Afghanistan was going to do this the moment the US left no matter who was president. Though fool Trump really set up the Afghans to fail because he was negotiating retreat with the Taliban when he was in office - he wasn't including the government in his negotiations so they had all the more reason to buckle. It does seem odd that Biden didn't change the players, he left Trump's plan in place, pushing it back a few months. (He has been busy with other things.) The biggest puzzle is why his people didn't insist on continuing to use Bagram instead of the Kabul airport (and why they didn't plan way ahead to get the Afghan families who aided the US out?) These issues would face anyone trying to wrap this up: there have been four presidents with this on their dance cards and it would have been best all around if Dubya hadn't been trying to one-up his father and started this whole Afghan and then Iraq period of aggression to begin with. As it happened, when Bin Laden was killed on Obama's watch, it was in Pakistan. Go figure.

I vote for aneurism for Trump - brain, aorta, whatever. Just to be gone.


17 Aug 21 - 05:55 PM (#4116903)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Most of your countrymen and women haven't even got a modest understanding of history. Trump got 75 million votes last time out, more than any other loser ever. Be very afraid.


17 Aug 21 - 06:03 PM (#4116904)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Incidentally, wishing death or ill-health on people fits the definition of going low. Trump did so many bad things but somehow you can't nail him. Somehow, that's what you have to do.


17 Aug 21 - 06:05 PM (#4116905)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Normally Steve protests a trump death wish.
Natural causes are dangerous.
Death should leave no room for conspiracy or Martyrdom such as being shot by Steve Bannon or the Pillow Guy on live TV


17 Aug 21 - 06:49 PM (#4116913)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Biden has a higher approval rating than trump ever had. He had a victory on his infrastructure bill, Standard and Poors stock market has doubled since March 2020, Covid relief put $ in everyone's pocket, the child tax benefit is mailing $250 minimum per month to parents, shots in arms is over 60%, Afghan refugees will number fewer than Viet Nam, Japanese, and Korean restaurants. Afghan food is not that appealing...
Rent moritorium has been extended but we have to settle the voting rights bill to win the next election convincingly. Overall the real real political determinate in the US is "Its the Pandemic stupid".
70-80% are vaccinated in battlground states. FL and TX are killing their own base with anti mask laws. They could go purple since people tend to protect their kids over republican blowhards.
Trump has NO lock on the election and fewer inside instigators.
Listen and learn Steve.


17 Aug 21 - 08:29 PM (#4116920)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Unfortunately, you will learn only when Trump is your next president. It's the American way, demonstrated perfectly by Biden in the last few days. When things bite you on the arse, you realise, too late, that you got it wrong (and, even now, he valiantly refuses to admit it). The whole of the western world outside your country knows that Biden has suffered a calamity at least as bad as the exit from Hanoi. The trick is to see it coming and do a swerve. Joe hasn't learned that lesson.


17 Aug 21 - 08:41 PM (#4116921)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

I think that tRump is dying a slow "death" in losing so much of his fan base on social media and losing some of his hold over his Republican mates. He's becoming yesterday's news, a paper tiger. That's worse than death for a sociopath: to be whimpering in the background while others are making a big noise in the spotlight.

Yvonne Fair - It Should Have Been Me


17 Aug 21 - 09:00 PM (#4116924)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Bugger, I meant Saigon, not Hanoi! :-(


18 Aug 21 - 08:37 AM (#4116959)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

As usual Steve presumes too much. "Most of your countrymen and women haven't even got a modest understanding of history."
Now he presumes to speak for THE ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD.
I PRESUME he will consider petitioning mods to remove this post although it has no ad hominum attacks that he is well known for, possibly the reason why some old UK threads became anathma to civility.
I do not agree that due to Biden's ignorance and our own misguided assumptions regarding democracy we will see a 'Return of the Trump part II'. I take no offense that Steve is being a devil's advocate, I just disagree for a number of valid reasons we could discuss.


18 Aug 21 - 10:38 AM (#4116970)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Here is the "Peace agreement" Trump and Pompeo worked out in Feb. 2020.

Summing up by Paul Nuki on Twitter:

1/5 Have you read the deal agreed between the US and the Taliban?

It explains why the Taliban now rule Afghanistan again; the US just surrendered it, even promising financial support.

A quick thread follows but 1st a pic of Big Mike Pompeo doing the deal in Doha in Feb 2020...


2/ The deal itself was simple: The Taliban promised (on the lives of their mums, daughters etc) not to hurt the US or its allies again. In return, they got the following five things:

i/ A complete withdrawal of all US and allied troops under an agreed time line. Nice...


ii/ The immediate release of thousands of Taliban prisoners - you, know the ones guilty of terrorism, stoning women, blowing up US/UK troops, that sort of thing...

iii/ Dropping all sanctions/bounties on the Taliban by a week this Friday so they can get on with building their new caliphate unhindered. Great .. .

iv/ A firm promise not to threaten the Taliban ever again or interfere in the running of their new caliphate. Super ...

v/ Being friends with the Taliban in future and helping them build their new Islamic state via "economic cooperation". A new US/Afghani narco hub perhaps?? Smashing...

3/ If you think my take on this a bit one sided, I urge you to read the agreement for yourself.

It's basically Versailles, as drafted by the Taliban.

Here it is in full. It takes just 5 mins to read: https://2017-2021.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Signed-Agreement-02292020.pdf

4/ One last thought - was Big Mike under duress when he agreed it; was he threatened with torture, death or similar in order to sign away 20 years of blood and toil?

Not judging by the pictures from the event. He just seemed his normal plump, jovial self...


5/ And what of the Taliban; how did they seem at the signing ceremony in Doha last year?

Well, as usual, they appeared to be hanging tough. But having played an absolute blinder, they were almost certainly crying with laughter on the inside.


18 Aug 21 - 12:06 PM (#4116977)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is much to learn in 5 short pages... but while peering at Pompeo in terms of body language I noticed how Mike's eyes pleaded for eye contact and his hand tightly wrapped around the open straight limp hand of the Talib who gave no eye contact but instead stared at 2 other Talib leaders as if to say, 'Look this American is not my friend'.

For campaign purposes I would prefer to see Trump glad handing the Taliban. I would direct your attention back to the TREATY in terms of what is there and what is absent.


19 Aug 21 - 09:17 AM (#4117072)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

Yesterday saw a video on Fox News where Trump jeered at the Covid booster shot, saying Pfizer was just developing it to get hold of "billions of dollars". "Boosters?" he said, "Who ever heard of boosters?"

This morning I woke up with an insight. He's jealous. Jealousy is the crazy emotion, and it makes people do the most illogical things. Here Trump is, rejected by the voters and sidelined at one curlicued mansion or another. Other people are taking the lead, other people are making a difference, getting credit, and he's burning with rage. And he doesn't care whom he hurts.


23 Aug 21 - 06:29 PM (#4117648)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Yesterday Trump was booed at his own rally. The reason? He advocated the Covid vaccine. His reaction? "And you know what? I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You've got to do what you have to do."

but also: "But, I recommend take the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines."

So there's that. Slightly better than "It is what it is."


23 Aug 21 - 07:11 PM (#4117651)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

He is the original unreliable narrator in his own life, let alone leading a nation.


23 Aug 21 - 07:27 PM (#4117652)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

robo posted the most important rally moment imo.


25 Aug 21 - 07:59 AM (#4117796)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump voters are 50% vaccinated
Biden voters are 91% vaccinated


25 Aug 21 - 10:48 AM (#4117817)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

That’s good isn’t it? A chance that another wave of C-19 might drastically reduce the number of Trumpites in the US population. Fingers crossed.


25 Aug 21 - 11:22 AM (#4117822)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia

I heard the crowd that is said to have booed Trump for recommending the vaccine. It wasn't booing; it was mild cheering accompanied, perhaps, by some sounds of doubt. When a crowd boos, we know it.

I'm glad he recommended vaccination, and I hope he gets better with practice.


25 Aug 21 - 01:05 PM (#4117835)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Thats my take too but if you work for MSNBC it was loud booing.

trump has the problem that the Qanon monster can turn on him if he dares confront their insanity even though he is still considered to have Christ like status right now.


25 Aug 21 - 01:17 PM (#4117837)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

I suppose it's a good thing that trump was encouraging his dupes to get vaccinated the other day but we'd probably be much closer to having this thing under control if he and Melania had their vaccinations in public back in January rather than do it privately to keep from alienating the anti-vaxxers amongst his rabble. He's a sorry excuse for a human being.


25 Aug 21 - 04:30 PM (#4117855)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

That reminds me , I met an anti vaxxer that was serious about concentraion camps awaiting fellow antivaxxers. Sure enough he defended Q by listing the things he predicted correctly. I hypnotized him by asking about ever having a car accident and he said, yes,"Were you hurt" yes, "what happened... then I suddenly changed his focus and he was in full discosure mode. I told him the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club and asked if he was a patriot. He was convinced I was the real deal and on his side. Then I asked if he was 'there'. He said he was in the hospital with lung clots from double pnumonia and Covid. In 3 minutes he had traced his ancestry gathered from his late father back to the 18th century. Some of his relatives were classical musicians, one saw the Reichstad burn and grandad was on Normandy beach and the bulge.
He's another example that high intelligence does not guarantee rationality. Or a salesman profession could amplify the ability to lie.
I have always been intrigued by borderline personalities like his.


27 Aug 21 - 11:03 AM (#4118027)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The House investigation of Jan 6th should wrap up in about a year.


28 Aug 21 - 10:00 AM (#4118103)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Yesterday I got my flu shot at a small pharmacy in the neighborhood; the pharmacist is my regular go-to person for giving good shots. And she is so depressed by the rise of COVID again, how people resist the logical treatment of getting the vaccine. I gave her a couple more of my three-layer cloth facemasks. She wears the N-95 at work but on her own around town wears the cloth ones.


30 Aug 21 - 07:49 AM (#4118236)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs

However, trump's failings aside, I am of the opinion that he would have handled the evacuation from Kabul in a more satisfactory manner than biden - let's face it it didn't need to be that good to achieve better than useless!!!!!!!!!


30 Aug 21 - 08:08 AM (#4118240)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Are you referring to the fucking traitor who tried to overthrow the U.S. government on Jan. 6 and has yet to be held accountable for it.


30 Aug 21 - 08:12 AM (#4118243)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs

None other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


30 Aug 21 - 08:31 AM (#4118248)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump's failings and corruptions aside, there isn't much left.
Just a bit of fat tissue, a clump of hair and a pile of IOU's.


31 Aug 21 - 07:19 PM (#4118420)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The 11 from heaven arc angels that are members of Congress who wish to conquor the USA are Rep.;
Laura Boebert
Marjorie Greene
Madison Cawthorn
Jim Jorden
Natt Gaetz
Andy Bigs
Louie Gommert
Jody Hice
Paul Gosar
Scott Perry
Mo Brooks


01 Sep 21 - 10:28 AM (#4118493)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

McCarthy warns telecom and social media companies that comply with January 6 committee records requests

Executive privilege rears its head.


01 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM (#4118501)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

McCarthy basicly said to big Corp is "If you give proof to the commitee
that some Republicans did conspire with Trump for insurrection violence and attempted murder, when we are back in power we will punish you".


01 Sep 21 - 07:52 PM (#4118551)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

This is not privilege, it is thugism.
There are small time agent provocateurs from the proud boys who are yelling civil war and starting fist fights over mask mandates at local school board meetings. This too is thugism.


01 Sep 21 - 09:17 PM (#4118560)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

McCarthy and his ilk are in the legislative branch, they're not covered by Trump's expected claim of immunity (as much as he might try to protest it exists).

Now if someone could light a fire under Manchion and Sinema. They are stonewalling important business while McConnell wouldn't hesitate to lose the filibuster for if he gets another turn.


01 Sep 21 - 09:49 PM (#4118563)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is nothing illegal about answering a Congressional probe or responding to supeona as McCarthy claimed. In fact it is SOP.
I saw Jim Jordan shake in his boots when asked about Trump phone calls on Jan.6th


02 Sep 21 - 10:42 AM (#4118597)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Texas is a direct victim of the Trump administration - his packed Supreme Court (yes, Joe, add more members) and the anti-abortion and anti-voter nonsense. West Virginia and Arizona "Democratic in name only" senators Manchion and Sinema need to get the sticks out of their asses and act like Democrats. Everything is grinding to a halt - but the alternative is one of them decides to walk across the aisle and hand it all over to McConnell. Ugg. Time for more Democrats to be elected in 2022. Treat this election like 2018, let the anger at Trump be the momentum needed to knock more GOP Trumpites out of office.


04 Sep 21 - 07:41 AM (#4118801)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The local news is talking about putting the riot fence back up around the capitol building.


04 Sep 21 - 11:17 AM (#4118818)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump's brand of idiocy has bled across the border northward:

The New York Times Canada Letter headline

Vaccine Passports Roll Out, and So Do Unruly Anti-Vaccine Protests

A crowd rallying against vaccination for Covid-19 clogged the streets outside a Vancouver hospital this week, haranguing and, in one case, assaulting health care workers, slowing ambulances, delaying patients entering for treatment and disturbing those recovering inside.

Kennedy Stewart, the city’s mayor, was among the many people to quickly condemn its members.


06 Sep 21 - 02:55 PM (#4119003)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

And Melania Trump's actions are sending signals that
she won't do the First Lady thing a second time, thank you.


06 Sep 21 - 03:13 PM (#4119007)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

She didn't really do them the first time, all things considered.

Meanwhile, his allies during the January 6 assault on the Capitol are trying to intimidate common carriers that might provide things like phone records to the committee investigating their actions. Republicans in crosshairs of 6 January panel begin campaign of intimidation
House leader Kevin McCarthy threatened retaliation against tech companies that share records with the committee


06 Sep 21 - 04:02 PM (#4119013)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen

An unforgettable image: Melania Trump at the announcement of tRump's victory in 2016. The atmosphere she was exuding was palpable, and it wasn't a happy atmosphere.


06 Sep 21 - 08:02 PM (#4119034)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump has been honored with a 2 foot statue of Mt Rushmoe with his head next to Lincoln, 2 other similar statues are in the secret possession of 2 other unknown people. I heard he has a secret model city of New Ottawa and Greenland USA. jus in case global warming is real.


06 Sep 21 - 09:38 PM (#4119046)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

MOUNT RUSHMOE?!   I love it! That's GENIUS.

The four Stooges :
Moe, Larry, Curly Joe, and Donald John.

Wonder if there's an image somewhere?


06 Oct 21 - 10:51 AM (#4122055)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

It appears that former Trump press secretary Stephanie Grisham's book is going to do some damage to the Orange One.

Trump dictated a statement that made Grisham feel like 'a crazy cultist' — then he forgot he even composed it

Grisham was in that inner circle during the entire administration. From Wikipedia:
She was a press aide to Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, and then a member of the presidential transition team. As Press Secretary, she was the first White House press secretary in American history to hold no press conferences, instead opting for interviews on conservative news outlets. Grisham assumed the role of chief of staff to the first lady on April 7, 2020.

She resigned on January 6, 2021 following the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. In September 2021, she announced the publication of her book about her time working in the Trump administration, I'll Take Your Questions Now.


If you read Stephanie Winston Wolkoff's book about the fraud and excess of the Inaugural committee (that is still in the courts) Grisham helped with the presidential three-card-monte that let a lot of people dip deeply into the funds.


06 Oct 21 - 11:08 AM (#4122058)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

My guess is that she never held any pressers because she didn't want to have to answer toadstool penis questions. As much as I loathe trump and enjoy reading dirt on him this skank is almost as repulsive, carving him up after advocating for him so vehemently. What a rats nest that White House was.


06 Oct 21 - 04:08 PM (#4122101)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

She is the kind of snake who wants it both ways, partially anti Trump and partially pro Trump.


06 Oct 21 - 04:52 PM (#4122111)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It bears repeating that the "government was never our enemy -
Its the DARK MONEY!"

But it won't become a household phrase inside of 4 years.
'Billed Back Butter' ;^/


07 Oct 21 - 07:03 AM (#4122153)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Republicans say that
President Biden is trying to RAM DOWN YOUR THROAT;
Improved health, sustainable transportation options for millions of Americans by modernizing and expanding transit and rail networks across the country, while reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Plan is the largest federal investment in public transit in history and is the largest federal investment in passenger rail since the creation of Amtrak.

Repair and rebuild our roads and bridges with a focus on climate change mitigation, resilience, equity, and safety for all users, including cyclists and pedestrians. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework is the single largest dedicated bridge investment since the construction of the interstate highway system.

Build a national network of electric vehicle (EV) chargers along highways and in rural and disadvantaged communities. The largest investment in EV infrastructure in history, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework will accomplish the President’s goal of building 500,000 EV chargers.

Electrify thousands of school and transit buses across the country to reduce harmful emissions and drive domestic manufacturing of zero emission vehicles and components.

Eliminate the nation’s lead service lines and pipes, delivering clean drinking water to up to ten million American families and more than 400,000 schools and child care facilities that currently don’t have it, including in Tribal nations and disadvantaged communities. The Plan is the largest investment in clean drinking water and waste water infrastructure in American history.

Connect every American to reliable high-speed internet, just as the federal government made a historic effort to provide electricity to every American nearly one hundred years ago. The Framework will also drive down prices for internet service and close the digital divide.

Upgrade our power infrastructure, including by building thousands of miles of new, resilient transmission lines to facilitate the expansion of renewable energy, including through a new Grid Authority. The Plan is the single largest investment in clean energy transmission in American history.

Create a first of its kind Infrastructure Financing Authority that will leverage billions of dollars into clean transportation and clean energy.

Make the largest investment in addressing legacy pollution in American history, a cleanup effort that will create good-paying union jobs and advance environmental justice.

Prepare more of our infrastructure for the impacts of climate change, cyber attacks, and extreme weather events. The Framework is the largest investment in the resilience of physical and natural systems in American history.
The Framework, which will generate significant economic benefits and returns, is financed through a combination of closing the tax gap, redirecting unspent emergency relief funds, targeted corporate user fees, and the macroeconomic impact of infrastructure investment.

BUT WORSE THAN THAT:
Two free years of community college
The legislation provides two years of free community college for all students, regardless of family income. It is anticipated to cost $108 billion.

The bill would also add $80 billion in funding for Pell Grants, which Democrats say hasn't kept pace with the increasing cost of college.

Child care and universal pre-K
Every family that applies shall be offered child care assistance for children ages 0 to 5. In all, the plan allocates roughly $450 billion to lower the cost of child care and provide two years of universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, according to the House Education and Labor Committee.

The panel estimated that this proposal would keep the cost of child care at or below 7% of most families' income.

Medicare expansion
This heavily debated provision would expand Medicare to include coverage of dental, hearing and vision services.


Manchin believes the program's solvency should be addressed before it is expanded.

"We need to stabilize it," he told reporters Friday, according to reports. "By 2026, you understand, the trust fund is going to be insolvent."

Extended child tax credit
Democrats expanded the child tax credit for 2021 in their $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief plan, and now want to extend it through 2025.

Under the enhancement, families receive $3,600 per child under age 6, and $3,000 per child age 6 to 18. Most families receive monthly payments of either $250 or $300 per child.

The full expanded child tax credit is available to individuals making up to $75,000 or married couples making up to $150,000.

While Mr. Biden has touted the tax credit's success in lifting children out of poverty, Manchin thinks Democrats' social spending package should impose work requirements for parents who qualify.

"You want to help the children and the parents that are basically providing for those children. There's no work requirements whatsoever. There's no education requirements whatsoever for better skill sets," he told CNN in an interview this month. "Don't you think, if we're going to help the children, that the people should make some effort?"

The House Ways and Means Committee has also endorsed permanent expansions of the earned income tax credit and child and dependent care tax credit.

Cut prescription drug prices
Another key provision in the bill is aimed at helping to slash prescription drug prices. Americans on average pay two to three times as much as people in other countries for prescription drugs, according to the White House. Among other things, the legislation allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Medicare is currently prohibited by law from negotiating for the best deal.

Paid family and medical leave
For the first time in history, the U.S. would have comprehensive paid leave, covering 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave. The legislation would replace at least two-thirds of earnings, up to $4,000 per month, while the lowest-paid workers would receive 80% of their income.

The White House has previously estimated the plan would cost $225 billion over the next 10 years.

Climate change
Combating climate change and slowing the rate at which Earth warms will mean transitioning away from fossil fuels, the major source of greenhouse gas emissions.

One provision that Manchin has objected to is the $150 billion "clean electricity performance program," which would pay utility companies that increase their renewable energy supplies by 4% per year. Companies that do not hit this benchmark would face financial penalties. The bill also provides significant funding for forest management and other wildfire control measures.

There are also measures to incentivize the buying of electric vehicles and the construction of charging stations; consumer rebates to homeowners who weatherfit their houses; and financial penalties for oil and gas producers for methane leaks, among other things.

Lesser-known provisions
The massive bill has a slew of lesser-known provisions as well.


For instance, the bill would authorize $5 million a year for the Small Business Administration for an entrepreneurial program for formerly incarcerated individuals.

The bill also directs $2.5 billion for the Justice Department to award competitive grants or contracts to local governments, community-based organizations and other groups to support intervention strategies to reduce community violence.

How they plan to pay for it
Democrats have also included a tax plan to pay for the provisions in the bill.

The corporate tax rate would rise from 21% to 26%, and the top income tax rate for Americans making over $400,000 would increase from 37% to 39.6%. The top capital gains rate would also go from 20% to 25%.

Democrats are also looking to beef up tax enforcement by the Internal Revenue Service as a vehicle for paying for the package.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the tax changes spearheaded by Democrats would raise more than $2 trillion in revenue over 10 years, with roughly $1 trillion in tax increases from high-income Americans and nearly $1 trillion from corporate and international tax reforms.

I say "ram away"


07 Oct 21 - 07:01 PM (#4122207)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY ! Fox News is 25 years old today.
It started with a shock jock vibe and soon latched onto Islamic terrorism hatred and when Democrats tried not to slur all Muslims it evolved until today the Fox enemy are all Democrats. Domestic terrorism is fully supported by Fox News as well as Facebook anti vax conspiracies. I see the irony how their tactics are more like the initial Islamic terrorists they were against. Sure racial division is at the heart of all their success.
I just learned today that OAN News {a uber Fox} was started by AT&T.


08 Oct 21 - 03:35 PM (#4122321)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Things are moving along. Trump wants to claim executive privilege for all of the documents in the National Archives, but Biden isn't letting him claim privilege for any of them. Bannon has tried to follow Trump's suit, claiming privilege, and is about to get his ass arrested.

Biden declines Trump request to withhold White House records from Jan. 6 committee

You may have to turn off adblockers or use the JustRead browser extension to read this.


08 Oct 21 - 05:10 PM (#4122329)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Joe Offer

I read that article with an overdose of delight, SRS. To think that the Biden White House has the power to protect or disclose the foibles of the Trump White House. What a great country this is (sometimes)!!!


09 Oct 21 - 05:02 PM (#4122449)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

"Foibles", or acts of treason?


10 Oct 21 - 08:38 AM (#4122490)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

America is not a evil place. If not for a gun culture and a generational teaching that exterminating all the colored brutes is a cultural priority, this is a nice place to live. All the greedy stupid mistakes can be fixed over time.


10 Oct 21 - 09:21 AM (#4122495)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

It's not an evil place but it's trending in that direction. On January 6th a sitting president incited a mob to violently disrupt our most important democratic process and there probably will be very little, if any, repercussions from it for him or his henchmen due to the partisan politics that have poisoned the national atmosphere. Optimism is a good thing as long as you don't lose sight of reality.

In my previous post it should have been "acts of sedition" not "acts of treason".


10 Oct 21 - 10:03 AM (#4122501)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

What did the Heritage Foundation promote?
A conservative think tank promoting public policy research and analysis based on free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

Well they have turned a blind eye to most of those values and pursue a Vladamir Putin doctrine that "people don't choose leaders, the people who count votes choose the leaders" .

Now a third of the country has new laws about who counts the votes and who can overturn real results and choose their own electors. Guess who are the alternate electors. Republicans.

The Federalist Society devotes thir efforts to a Conservative Supream Court branch of government. WHO PAYS those Foundations and Society's, its people like the former Koch Brothers who have significant Stalinesque heritage.

The evil is in the Dark Money and the helpful idiot conspiracy theorists.


10 Oct 21 - 10:19 AM (#4122504)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

BAD IDEAS that make money temporarily are dangerous and can lead to a failed nation.


11 Oct 21 - 06:13 PM (#4122642)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Allen West, Fox News contributor, is in the hospital with Covid and Ivermectin and Hydrochloroquin overdose.
He refused vaccines from the start and is still denying Covid is worse than flu.


11 Oct 21 - 06:23 PM (#4122644)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You're going to get him back. His rabble-rousing rally in Iowa showed that he hasn't lost his touch. No mud is going to stick. If you can't find a way to get him in jail, be very afraid. Along with the rest of the planet.


16 Oct 21 - 09:33 AM (#4123141)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Ron Watkins, the 8chan Troll and QAnon Evangelist, Says He's Running for Congress
Watkins, who is widely suspected of being behind the QAnon conspiracy theory, wants to represent Arizona in 2021

Remember Newt Gingrich and Pat Robertson and all of the Tea Party folks? When Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz seemed as bad as it could get?

That was childsplay compared to this guy. Trump really unlocked a Pandora's box of bad behavior in politics.


16 Oct 21 - 09:46 AM (#4123145)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Good comparison's, like the PTL Club on steroids and meth.


16 Oct 21 - 10:20 AM (#4123148)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

And this is a self-inflicted wound, Hunter Biden is like a modern day Billy Carter or Roger Clinton.

Is Hunter Biden’s art project painting the president into an ethical corner? He seems to have spent his entire adult life trading on his father's name. That's why he was an easy target for Trump (who, if he understands anything, understands about trading on the family name.)


16 Oct 21 - 10:43 AM (#4123152)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

He is more like a self inflicted son. Perhaps you could change his name to Blaagg and tie him to an ant hill.
Families, whatchagonna do.
Growing up in the shadow of Bo ain't easy either.


17 Oct 21 - 04:26 PM (#4123322)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

If you read the Mary Trump book about Trump last year, you know that except for the Trump parents, the siblings and their kids are less of an embarrassment than the man himself. Mostly. His parents were pretty awful.


17 Oct 21 - 10:11 PM (#4123354)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Ex-intel official who created controversial Trump Russia dossier speaks out
Former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, the man behind the "Steele Dossier" that claimed Russian officials held compromising information on former President Donald Trump, defended the claims made in the dossier in his first on-camera interview since it was revealed in 2017.

In a clip from an upcoming ABC News documentary released Sunday, Steele said he decided to sit down for an interview now because he wanted to "set the record straight" about his role in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. ABC released a portion of the documentary featuring parts of Steele's interview on Sunday, with the full documentary slated to be released on Hulu early Monday morning.

"Most of the world first heard your name about five years ago, but you stayed silent up until now. Why speak out now?" host George Stephanopoulos asked.

"I think the first and most important (reason) is that the problems we identified back in 2016 haven't gone away, and arguably have actually got worse, and I thought it was important to come and set the record straight," Steele said.

Steele's unverified dossier became one of the most controversial aspects of the FBI's investigation into Trump and Russia that led to special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. Many of the claims, such as the so-called "pee tape," were never proven, despite the FBI's efforts to verify salacious allegations and years of congressional investigators looking into the claims involving the former president and Russia.
Follow the link for the rest.


18 Oct 21 - 06:49 PM (#4123445)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump is sueing the 1-6 commitee for being an overbroad 'witchunt'. He is also claiming executive privildge as 45th President. Thats like claiming immunity as a former Emmy winner.
The Supream Court agrees with me.


19 Oct 21 - 02:11 PM (#4123515)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

One among several things that have changed since the first instance of the Steele Dossier story is that supposed a video document of the 'pee tape' were to emerge at any time from the present onward, no doubt the defense on the part of Tump would be that it's a deep fake.


19 Oct 21 - 06:15 PM (#4123555)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

In a comparison of Steve Bannon and Colin Powell there are many contrasts.
Let me count the ways;
Hygiene, Honor, Duty, Intellect, Respondsibility...(3 thousand factors later)...American, Empathy, Honesty and Good Intentions.


19 Oct 21 - 07:19 PM (#4123560)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Colin Powell was a main cheerleader, and main liar, when it came to the invasion of Iraq. He told us that the evidence for Saddam's weapons of mass destruction was unarguable and rock-solid when he knew very well that it wasn't. I can't think that the families of the quarter-million dead Iraqi civilians would be agreeing with you about his duty, honesty, empathy and good intentions. All of his expressed regrets and switching of sides won't bring a single one of those people back. You could have added flawed and weak to your list. He should have told Bush where to get off instead of peddling the lies to the UN.


19 Oct 21 - 09:14 PM (#4123566)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, you're not perhaps as familiar with the Colin Powell story as Americans are. He was duped by a CIA plot that put forward the story of an unreliable Iraqi source - and he regretted that for the rest of his life.

Bush shouldn't have started the Iraq war, but that was Bush's decision, and he also got the bad intelligence. The astonishing part is how much influence one particularly bad source seemed to wield.


19 Oct 21 - 09:16 PM (#4123567)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

But this thread is about Trump.

The Trump Administration Used Its Food Aid Program for Political Gain, Congressional Investigators Find
The Food to Families program, touted by Ivanka Trump, gave tens of millions of dollars to unqualified firms and was also used to promote then-President Trump.
A $6 billion federal program created to provide fresh produce to families affected by the pandemic was mismanaged and used by the Trump administration for political gain, a new congressional report has found.

As a ProPublica investigation revealed last spring and as the new report further details, the Farmers to Families Food Box program gave contracts to companies that had no relevant experience and often lacked necessary licenses. The House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, which released its report last week, found that former President Donald Trump’s administration did not adequately screen contractor applications or identify red flags in bid proposals.


19 Oct 21 - 09:18 PM (#4123568)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

When Bannon is sitting in jail he will communicate with the Proud Boys to break him out. It will be called operation Base Steal day.


20 Oct 21 - 03:47 AM (#4123576)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I've read the.Colin Powell story very carefully in recent days. I know about the CIA's part. He made those claims at the UN in the kind of words I've described knowing that he'd seen no evidence and that he was passing on what he definitely should have known to have been a potential untruth, yet his words transmitted certainty. He held one of the highest and most influential offices in the western world. There's plenty of connection with his time and Trump. He suffered later for his lies but Blair and Bush both got away with it (they both won their next elections, for example). They discovered that lies, even ones that kill thousands, can be a useful political ploy. Since then we've had two of the worst serial liars in political history in power in our two countries. Bush, Blair, Powell, Johnson and Trump found that lies can suit your political agenda very nicely.


20 Oct 21 - 06:21 AM (#4123585)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ivanka Trump in charge of a 6 billion dollar food program, what could go wrong with talent like that?


20 Oct 21 - 12:07 PM (#4123615)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The Trump Administration Used Its Food Aid Program for Political Gain, Congressional Investigators Find

The Food to Families program, touted by Ivanka Trump, gave tens of millions of dollars to unqualified firms and was also used to promote then-President Trump.


20 Oct 21 - 01:04 PM (#4123620)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D

Steve... Powell was assured by the CIA and Bush that they had solid evidence of WMDs. They wanted a statement immediately... he gave them he benefit of the doubt and read it......... and began to suspect a problem and regret it within a very short time.
   Yes, we can play "shoot the messenger", but General Powell's loyalty as a good soldier was at once a virtue... and a problem.
   He did suffer for his attempt to follow the lead of those who simply wanted the invasion. For me, it doesn't tarnish his basic character & legacy much at all.. the 'mistake' should be only a footnote in the history books on the pages describing how Cheney..thru Bush.. pushed this story.


20 Oct 21 - 02:03 PM (#4123627)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

...and a quarter of a million civilian deaths, Bill...?


20 Oct 21 - 04:32 PM (#4123634)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

That's on the CIA and on Dubya wanting to one-up his old man as far as war. What we're trying to tell you, Steve.


20 Oct 21 - 06:05 PM (#4123645)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/colin-powell-quotes


20 Oct 21 - 06:33 PM (#4123648)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

General Powell was yet more collateral damage.


20 Oct 21 - 06:36 PM (#4123649)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I absolutely know what you're trying to tell me. The irreducible fact is that he was complicit in peddling a terrible lie that, ultimately, led to misery and death for hundreds of thousands of non-combatants. His contrition, no matter how genuine (and I believe it was) can never mitigate the consequences of his part in the unjust invasion of Iraq. The obstinate point here is that the certainty he expressed to the UN was completely unjustified, and, worse, he knew it. I understand how you yanks want to cling to any scrap of integrity that you can find in your failed statesmen, and how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead, etc., but this guy aided and abetted the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Not only that, he helped to legitimise the political expediency of telling barefaced lies, a phenomenon that we are currently reaping the whirlwind of.

I'm sure that he was a lovely man. You need to be a damn sight more than that when you are in one of the most powerful positions on the planet. He failed that test. However, were I to believe in heaven and hell, which I don't, then I feel that St Peter might just, on a fine balance, give him the benefit.


21 Oct 21 - 07:25 AM (#4123693)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

I’m not a Yank, Steve, but I agree with the consensus here that General Powell was far more sinned against than sinning. I don’t believe he *knew* the intelligence upon which he based his decision was dishonest. Reliable? That’s different; any intelligence assessment can be both wildly unreliable and completely tru-blue honest at the same time.

As a well-trained, widely experienced combat veteran, he was singularly ill-prepared for American-style national and international politics. In Army World, everyone on your side is fighting the same enemy you are for the same reasons, and deliberately feeding duff gen to your chain of command is a mortal sin, if not treason.


21 Oct 21 - 07:34 AM (#4123695)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Thanks for that insight, Charmion.
To me Secretary Powell was one of the finest public servants of my lifetime who got railroaded by several of the worst. I don't give him a pass on his involvement in the Irag affair but it doesn't nullify all the good things he did for this country as a soldier and a diplomat.


21 Oct 21 - 07:55 AM (#4123697)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Its less nuanced than that.
In Trump World, Colin Powell was everything they hate; Harlem born of Jamaican immigrants, a Never Trumper, a defender of Democracy and not white. He was the Jackie Robinson of high US goverment office with the exception of Thurgood Marshall. I can not help but suspect a deep seated racist hatred by Powell's critics. In 1996 Colin said he could no longer be a Republican as the party became more anti diversity.


21 Oct 21 - 08:01 AM (#4123698)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

As you often do, you're mashing up two separate eras for gawd knows what reason.


21 Oct 21 - 08:31 AM (#4123702)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'm not very keen on the insinuation that criticising Powell means that I may be racist. That is just cheap. Let me remind you that I have said that, in spite of my criticism of him, St Peter would still have let him in. OK?

Yes he might have been politically naive. But going to the UN to tell the Bush/Blair lies, lies that were going to drive an illegal war that killed all those civilians and which any bloody fool could see was going to visit all kinds of chaos and inhumanity on the region and beyond. A man in his position, expressing such rock-solid certainty...a massive error that had massive repercussions. Just one more thing, going back to that time. There were plenty of Bush/Blair dissenters in this country who KNEW that those two were determined to go to war, come what may. We stood in the streets to protest, etc., well before it all kicked off. We watched with dismay as the weapons inspectors were determinedly sidelined. Blair lied to Parliament. Lied. We knew he was lying. We knew there was no evidence of those weapons because we knew that if they'd existed they'd have been plastered all over the media in order to get us onside. Ordinary people may not have been seeing the intelligence but we knew at least that there was something wrong. Colin Powell saw all this yet his speech contained not one scintilla of doubt. We all know that intelligence is often dodgy and always incomplete. He could have said no to Bush, yes he could. He could have resigned. We can forgive him for his naivity but let's at least not view the vile consequences of his actions through rose-coloured glasses.


21 Oct 21 - 08:50 AM (#4123703)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Yes Gilly times change.


21 Oct 21 - 10:43 AM (#4123723)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

certainty he expressed to the UN was completely unjustified, and, worse, he knew it.

He didn't "know it."

He could have resigned. We can forgive him for his naivity but let's at least not view the vile consequences of his actions through rose-coloured glasses.

No, he couldn't resign if he didn't agree with the politicians.

Have you heard nothing General Milley said last month and before? He served under Trump to protect the country and to do his job, and it isn't a political job, it's a military job. You don't quit your military job because you have a political disagreement.

The thing with Trump is that he was able to get military people fired when they were doing their jobs (think of the Vindman twins), but they didn't quit.

Steve, this thread is about Trump's actions and effects. Stop trashing Powell, move on to the subject of the thread or move on.


21 Oct 21 - 01:13 PM (#4123744)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The gears of Justice move slowly, perhaps too slowly. Trump is not even close to being tried for his insurrection violence or any of his other crimes. Even the Parkland mass shooter is finally getting his day in court and that tradjedy happened years ago.

I watched Four Hours at the Capitol last night. I hope the work recieves awards. It is POWERFUL.


21 Oct 21 - 02:01 PM (#4123752)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

For the record, I got intelligence reports, too, and they said *it was strongly indicated* there were WMDs there. What Gen Powell knew was what intelligence people in the field told him. It was still a supposition, and was not enough to start a war over.


21 Oct 21 - 04:07 PM (#4123758)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The trial of Donald Trump the game show star and President will be in part history repeating itself.

"Fame, like a two-edg’d Sword, does cut both ways,
And equally, doth praise Men, and dispraise,
Cæsar and Pompey were surnamed Great,
By Sycophants, and in their own Gazett,
Being great Cons and Butchers, they great Fame did get."


21 Oct 21 - 04:24 PM (#4123759)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

No need to shout, Maggie. I read all responses to my posts before posting again. Oh yes, he could have resigned in protest at being ordered to make that speech. He even said so himself, actually. And there is a massive connection to Trump in what happened at that time. Telling massive lies in order to advance your nefarious cause became a thing under Bush and Blair that you could now get away with. Even be responsible, via your lies, for hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, yet still win your next election, which they both did. Don't think for one minute that this was lost on Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. More sinister still is that Trump lied his way through four years of presidency and came out just as strong. He got even more votes than the time before. Biden vs Trump next time round? Don't waste your dollars betting on Biden. So when did the big lying start, Maggie?

Colin Powell came across as an upright kind of bloke who naively made a terrible mistake. At least he was contrite. But I'm afraid that his mistake will always be an ineradicable part of his legacy. I'm sure he's up there with the angels.


23 Oct 21 - 04:39 AM (#4123847)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick

Steve, this thread is about Trump's actions and effects. Stop trashing Powell, move on to the subject of the thread or move on.

If you think that is confusing the issue, then maybe you can appreciate how difficult it is to follow any reasonable discussion of UK politics when so many widely differing points are crammed into a single thread thread.

DC


We have constrained the Trump conversation to a single thread based upon the example of too many UK political threads. Live and learn. ---mudelf


23 Oct 21 - 05:12 AM (#4123849)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

Are the powers that be in the USA any nearer to nailing the bastard yet? We in the UK have a lot invested in your doing so as the sooner it happens, the sooner we can nail our own corrupt crew.


23 Oct 21 - 07:41 AM (#4123868)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A failed coup becomes practice for a successful coup.
What the mother trumping hell is Biden to do
Focus on saving Democracy or get his New Deal
Save the body so the mind survives is what I feel


23 Oct 21 - 11:03 AM (#4123887)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

So Trump is starting his own social media platform because he's been denied his free speech. Oh, if you join Truth Social, by the way, don't expect to be able to criticise it...That kind of free speech ain't allowed...

Here's a great letter for all those of us (myself not included) for those of us who can't face life without Facebook:

A letter from Peter White of Holbrook in Derbyshire which was published in The Oldie magazine a number of years back still makes me giggle.

"I haven't got a computer, but I was told about Facebook and Twitter, and am trying to make friends outside Facebook and Twitter while applying the same principles.
"Every day, I walk down the street and tell passers-by what I have eaten, how I feel, what I have done the night before and what I will do for the rest of the day. I give them pictures of my wife, my daughter, my dog and me gardening and on holiday, spending time by the pool. I also listen to their conversations, tell them I 'like' them and give them my opinion on every subject that interests me....whether it interests them or not.
"And it works. I already have four people following me: two police officers, a social worker and a psychiatrist."


23 Oct 21 - 12:35 PM (#4123904)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Pranksters have already defaced Trump’s new social network

Truth Social has some unusual rules for a Trump-run site: It reserves the right to ban users and safeguard itself from lawsuits with Section 230 protections. It also prohibits ‘excessive use of capital letters.’

Former president Donald Trump and his team declared Wednesday night that they would soon launch a “media powerhouse” that would help them triumph in their long-running war against Big Tech. But within hours, pranksters found what appeared to be an unreleased test version and posted a picture of a defecating pig to the “donaldjtrump” account.

The site, called Truth Social, has since been pulled offline, evidence that Trump is likely to face a daunting challenge in building an Internet business that can stand on its own.

Banned by all major social networks after his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, Trump has for months agitated to regain the online megaphone that once blasted his voice around the world. In a presentation released Wednesday by his new media company, Trump Media & Technology Group, his team hailed the new social network as the first tentpole for a Trump-led media, news and Internet empire that would one day compete with CNN, Disney and Facebook.

But the site’s early hours revealed lax security, rehashed features and a flurry of bizarre design decisions. An open sign-up page allowed anyone to use the site shortly after it was revealed, sparking the creation of the “donaldjtrump” account and the pig posting. A Washington Post reporter was able to register and post under the account name “mikepence” without any stops in place. New sign-ups were blocked shortly after.

A Trump Media & Technology Group spokesperson did not immediately respond to requests for comment.


23 Oct 21 - 03:09 PM (#4123917)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Recall the early days of Trump and social media like facebook and Twitter, Trump was quirky crazy hazy and funny in a sick way. It succeeded in capturing eyeballs. BUT A SERIOUS TRUMP SITE is destined for failure. People loved that kofefee nonsense. If he was smart he would run with the shitting pig meme and ever popular insult theme. Thank Dog he isn't smart.


23 Oct 21 - 03:18 PM (#4123918)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

He's a bloody sight smarter than you think. He's hot favourite to be the next Republican candidate. And that means another term. When are you guys going to wake up and nail him?


23 Oct 21 - 03:29 PM (#4123919)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

Maybe you should concentrate on the horrific mess you've made of your own politics.


23 Oct 21 - 04:19 PM (#4123927)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump's 'Nazi Lite' brand became popular with militia types, racists and cultists. His 'dark brew' is not a best seller. Good people on both sides is mostly composed of victim politics on the fascist side and sanity hopefulls on the progressive side.


23 Oct 21 - 04:30 PM (#4123929)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

We do, gillymor. But yours has far more potential to wreck democracy worldwide. You're bigger and stronger than us. And, with him at the helm, a damn sight more dangerous. By the way, it would be great if some of you yanks didn't automatically think that you get your politics better than anyone else. You elected Reagan. You elected Bush. Twice. You elected Trump, and in less than three years you're going to elect him again. Because you're so big and powerful, that's our business too.


23 Oct 21 - 05:13 PM (#4123933)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump isn't "smart" in an intelligence way, Trump is a narcissist who has managed for most of his life to be a fuck-up whose father or company bailed him out (or the courts - when he left all of his creditors and employees dangling after all of his bankruptcies that are a legal "get-out-of-jail-free card). He is smart at cheating. His grades were never released from University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and it's clear in his niece Mary's first book about him that everyone understood that he paid other people to write papers and take tests.

Fact-Checking All of the Mysteries Surrounding Donald Trump and Penn
Why is everything about Trump’s time at Wharton shrouded in secrecy? We set out to uncover the truth.

Ahh, the college transcript. Trump famously graduated from Penn’s Wharton School in 1968 — a fact he reminds audiences of over and over again. (Per Penn’s student newspaper, the Daily Pennsylvanian, he publicly name-dropped Wharton 52 times between June 2015 and January 2018.) But despite all his humblebragging about that Wharton degree, Trump has never allowed his academic performance there to be made public.

“This was a major, major thing with Trump — that people might think he’s stupid,” Michael Wolff told me around the time of Siege’s publication earlier this summer. “The focus of that for Trump is the college transcripts, which are apparently terrible. I’ve spoken to friends of Trump from that time, and this was a guy that was obviously not interested in school and possibly never read a book in his life. For everyone that had known him then and years afterward, the assumption was that he had terrible grades, he was a lackluster student at best.”

In truth, Trump’s Wharton GPA is just one of many mysteries surrounding the 45th president’s relationship with Penn, Philadelphia’s most powerful private institution, which, unwittingly or not, helped unleash Trump on the world.

I'm sure there are juicy stories about the kids at Wharton - did any of them ever do the work or read the books? I'm not pasting the entire article here, but it sounds like of the four older kids, Ivanka did the coursework and graduated cum laude.
Perhaps the biggest reason for this shroud of mystery is Penn itself; the school’s sphinx-like reticence about its most famous alumnus plays at times like a silent scream. For instance, Penn has never had Trump deliver a commencement speech or conferred an honorary degree on him. In the wake of his election, Penn tour guides were discouraged from bringing up the T-word and issued simple instructions for handling questions about Trump’s tenure at Penn: Keep it short and sweet — “Yes, he graduated from Wharton in 1968” — and leave it at that. Tell Penn you’re writing an article about Donald Trump’s time there, and you’ll get the academic version of name, rank and serial number: “Donald J. Trump earned a B.S. in real estate, which was awarded on May 20, 1968,” says Ron Ozio, Penn’s director of media relations, declining my request for an interview. Which is peculiar, given that most universities make a lot of marketing hay out of an alumnus in the White House — and Trump is Penn’s first.


23 Oct 21 - 05:32 PM (#4123935)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Thing is, Maggie, in this day and age you don't have to be smart in an intelligence way. You have to be smart in a populist way. That's your man and that's what you're up against. What we're all up against.


23 Oct 21 - 06:15 PM (#4123941)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

How the 'Stop the Steal' movement outwitted Facebook ahead of the Jan. 6 insurrection

Hours after polls closed on Nov. 3, angry Donald Trump supporters on Facebook coalesced around a rallying cry now synonymous with the siege on the U.S. Capitol: "Stop the Steal."

Inside Facebook, employees were watching with concern.

The presidential election may have passed without major incident, but in its wake, "angry vitriol and a slew of conspiracy theories" were fomenting, Facebook staff wrote in an internal report on the Stop the Steal movement earlier this year. Supporters perpetuated the lie that the election had been stolen from then-President Donald Trump — a lie that Trump himself had been stoking for months.

By the time Facebook banned the first Stop the Steal group on Nov. 5, for falsely casting doubt on the legitimacy of the election and calling for violence, the group had already mushroomed to more than 360,000 members. Every hour, tens of thousands of people were joining.


24 Oct 21 - 09:55 AM (#4124026)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog

"You elected Trump, and in less than three years you're going to elect him again."

Can you let me have the lottery numbers for this weeks draw?


24 Oct 21 - 11:51 AM (#4124038)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

A view from this end, from today's Observer:

Trump lost the White House bully pulpit and a US president’s ability to command instant global attention. Personally wounding was the ban imposed by Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, which belatedly agreed he posed a threat to democracy. Trump was cut off from social media and his supporter base. He was all but silenced.

What worse fate could there be for a narcissist who craves constant attention and approval? Exiled to his luxury Florida estate, the Elba of the Everglades, Trump has struggled since to regain his voice. Last week, he made his move. The result: the so-called Truth Social media app, launching next year.

The newly formed company behind the app, Trump Media and Technology Group, plans to disseminate what it calls “anti-woke” news, debate and entertainment to Americans deprived of honest, impartial media outlets. This is total drivel, of course, coming from the mouth of the most shameless liar in modern US history.

Abusing truth as only Trump can, Truth Social will more likely prove both false and antisocial. It’s his way of regaining lost ground, prior to a wished-for presidential comeback in 2024. It’s a political propaganda platform intended to magnify and exploit the hate, ignorance and prejudice on which he feeds. MPs please note: Trump is the ultimate definition of “online harms”......

......Steve Bannon, one of his best-known former aides, has been found in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify to the 6 January inquiry and faces possible criminal prosecution. Since Trump ordered all his minions to act similarly, the legal bull’s-eye pinned to his back grows ever more unmissable.

Yet for all that, Trump remains first choice among Republican voters for the party’s presidential nomination. His average “favourable/unfavourable” rating is almost identical to Biden’s among the electorate as a whole. And he has shown how dangerous he can be when he reaches a wide audience, which is why Truth Social is worrying.


Better start shooting at that bull's-eye, America.


24 Oct 21 - 11:08 PM (#4124103)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

For 160 years America has tried to not talk honestly about the Civil War, not in the racist north or south. The foundation of this racism became institutiomalized in a quiet open secret.
Textbooks in NYS had a chapter on the War Between the States and the South had a chapter on The War of Northern Aggression.
Black Lives Matter arose from the slow motion war and murder of black people but the racists are still trying to control the narrative by banning CRT and insisting slavery was rare but 'civil'.
Usually the winners write the narrative but the loss of wealth and property of white southerners remains a pill too bitter to swallow and inspire a hate that white families harbor with pride.

We are talking about it now. The insurrectionists are openly feeling vindicated by Trump. This is the Civil War II we are fighting again.
Few are still willing to call it what it is.


25 Oct 21 - 08:11 AM (#4124139)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman

Reports on BBC News today of starving Afghan families having to sell children in order to feed the rest of their families. Think about that for a few moments…

Now, remind me again who made the deal with the Taliban, without involving the legitimate government of Afghanistan, for the withdrawal of US forces.


25 Oct 21 - 09:04 AM (#4124146)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Kill Biden in the crib: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/573617-bannon-says-he-discussed-how-to-kill-this-administration-in-the-crib


25 Oct 21 - 05:35 PM (#4124205)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Ahead of Jan. 6, Willard hotel in downtown D.C. was a Trump team ‘command center’ for effort to deny Biden the presidency
They called it the “command center,” a set of rooms and suites in the posh Willard hotel a block from the White House where some of President Donald Trump’s most loyal lieutenants were working day and night with one goal in mind: overturning the results of the 2020 election.

The Jan. 6 rally on the Ellipse and the ensuing attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob would draw the world’s attention to the quest to physically block Congress from affirming Joe Biden’s victory. But the activities at the Willard that week add to an emerging picture of a less visible effort, mapped out in memos by a conservative pro-Trump legal scholar and pursued by a team of presidential advisers and lawyers seeking to pull off what they claim was a legal strategy to reinstate Trump for a second term.

They were led by Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani. Former chief White House strategist Stephen K. Bannon was an occasional presence as the effort’s senior political adviser. Former New York City police commissioner Bernard Kerik was there as an investigator. Also present was John Eastman, the scholar, who outlined scenarios for denying Biden the presidency in an Oval Office meeting on Jan. 4 with Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.

They sought to make the case to Pence and ramp up pressure on him to take actions on Jan. 6 that Eastman suggested were within his powers, three people familiar with the operation said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations. Their activities included finding and publicizing alleged evidence of fraud, urging members of state legislatures to challenge Biden’s victory and calling on the Trump-supporting public to press Republican officials in key states.

The effort underscores the extent to which Trump and a handful of true believers were working until the last possible moment to subvert the will of the voters, seeking to pressure Pence to delay or even block certification of the election, leveraging any possible constitutional loophole to test the boundaries of American democracy.

“I firmly believed then, as I believe now, that the vice president — as president of the Senate — had the constitutional power to send the issue back to the states for 10 days to investigate the widespread fraud and report back well in advance of Inauguration Day, January 20th,” one of those present, senior campaign aide and former White House special assistant Boris Epshteyn, told The Washington Post. “Our efforts were focused on conveying that message.” . . . .But after other efforts failed, as Jan. 6 neared, the Eastman strategy came into bloom. Eastman, a Federalist Society member, law professor and former clerk for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, had the conservative legal credentials to burnish the argument.

Eastman’s first memo, only two pages long, described a six-point plan by which Pence could effectively commandeer the electoral counting process and enable Trump to win. The memo was first revealed last month in the book “Peril,” by Washington Post writers Bob Woodward and Robert Costa.


25 Oct 21 - 06:09 PM (#4124209)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump repeatedly urged Pense to listen to Eastman. Eastman lacked several things like real election fraud, any alternate electors and a stealing of the certified electoral ballots. Congressional staffers had hidden them from rioters.


25 Oct 21 - 06:16 PM (#4124210)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The thousands of Trump campaign T shirts that said MAGA 2020 CIVIL WAR are interesting no? They were made before Pense chickened out.


25 Oct 21 - 07:33 PM (#4124215)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Just in case you thought I was kidding: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22225538/capitol-insurrection-riot-sweatshirts-hats
The NYT is better but has a paywall


25 Oct 21 - 10:59 PM (#4124224)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

A story that hit Rolling Stone on Sunday places members of Congress with the planners of the January 6 insurrection, but the mainstream media hasn't reported yet. I'm hoping it's just a fact-checking thing, but after a day or more and nothing, it gives one pause. EXCLUSIVE: Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in ‘Dozens’ of Planning Meetings With Members of Congress and White House Staff

Two sources are communicating with House investigators and detailed a stunning series of allegations to Rolling Stone, including a promise of a “blanket pardon” from the Oval Office


26 Oct 21 - 06:47 AM (#4124239)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

That news has begun talk of an expulsion of members of Congress by other members. Getting it right is paramount to getting it fast.
Cooberation of evidence makes for a stronger case but fact fatigue may make many bury their head in the sand. Timing a bombshell news release is always a factor but is hard to crystal ball the impact.

We knew back in January that Greene conducted tour groups in the capitol bld. that was deemed against the Covid rules days before Jan 6.


26 Oct 21 - 09:43 AM (#4124246)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Greene had been a member of congress for three whole days and was already conducting tours of the US Capitol. She certainly got right to work for The Donald.


26 Oct 21 - 01:08 PM (#4124256)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A Trump 2020 victory Cruise thru the Bermuda Triangle got canceled due to loss of interest and Covid. Loser Cruisers dodged an iceburg in Bermuda then vanished


27 Oct 21 - 09:16 PM (#4124381)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sorry Australia, I know you are a great country and friend but we will no longer mail anything to you anymore nor will we have an Ambassador to your country.
Republicans will not allow it.


27 Oct 21 - 09:34 PM (#4124383)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Oz can mail anything to us because their postal system still works.


27 Oct 21 - 09:49 PM (#4124385)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I know you are a continent but our Postmaster General DeJoie thinks you are an island.
I think he has a private deal and kick back from Fed Ex.


28 Oct 21 - 12:28 AM (#4124393)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

Consumers fume after US Postal Service suspends Australian deliveries publ. Oct 1

USPS Suspends Package Services to Australia Due to COVID-19 Outbreak published Sept 3, with comments from late October

sniff, cry ...


28 Oct 21 - 05:39 AM (#4124407)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well when it comes to carbon dioxide emissions, Australia and the US should be good friends. The Oz prime minister stated last week that he wouldn't threaten "the Australian way of life" by cutting coal production and exports. I don't think he's noticed his heatwaves, droughts and wildfires. And here's something else: steelmaking is one of the biggest carbon emitters, around 8% of all greenhouse gases. China is by far the world's biggest steel producer, producing eight times more steel that the next biggest. Guess who gets lots of that Oz coal (which you need to make steel). Every ton of steel made produces 1.8 tons of carbon dioxide. Even more: to make steel you need iron ore. Sixty percent of the ore that China uses comes from, guess where...Australia. Enjoy your Australian way of life, you Aussies. It won't be lasting as long as you think...


29 Oct 21 - 08:36 AM (#4124529)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

At the end of W's Presidency the deregulated Wall Street caused many people to lose their home of many years or go underwater if they still owed money. This event is stuck in the minds of Americans in the form of mistrust and a hatred of government. Now lately the new medicine turned out to be highly addictive unto death. That caused a little more distrust and feeling less than happy.

Enter Donald Trump who can't tell the truth for sixty seconds but exploits distrust and hate. It was easy to believe his claims that they were lied to and dark skinned people are the cause.

A miracle vaccine? Its got to be a lie, even Facebook says so.


29 Oct 21 - 09:29 AM (#4124535)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

Our Prime Minister famously said he didn't hold a hose (he went to Hawaii for a family holiday in the middle of the 2019 bushfires)

He might speak (officially) for the country but a majority don't agree with him 7 in 10 Australians want government to take more action on climate, survey finds

With a net zero plan in his bag, Scott Morrison heads for the COP26 conference in Glasgow amid a climate policy storm


29 Oct 21 - 04:20 PM (#4124574)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The obstacles of climate change are many and the solutions are few.
We missed the 50 year window to respond effectively in lieu of greed.
We won't blame ourselves since we always others so we might blame you.
Some day everyone becomes a refugee and immigrant that we can't feed.


29 Oct 21 - 06:25 PM (#4124585)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Whilst I don't want to divert the thread away from Trump's misdeeds (though I shudder to think about the way we'd be going on climate change had he got a second term), I would like to say that I try to recycle whatever I can (my utility room is cluttered with bags containing separated-out cardboard, paper, bottles, plastic...), I drive a car that routinely does 57 to the gallon, I try to buy organic food and I grow a lot of my own, I have a big garden dedicated to wildlife, etc., etc., I honestly don't know why I'm bothering. China is not going to cut its emissions in any real way anytime soon. India has said cheerfully that it will carry on burning coal for decades to come. Australia won't allow its Australian way of life to be threatened so will continue to supply coal and iron ore to China (Oz is the second-biggest coal exporter in the world). Bolsinaro will continue to allow logging in the Amazon to the extent that the rainforest is now a net carbon emitter rather than a carbon absorber. The US, honestly as seen from this end, doesn't seem to be much interested in the climate crisis (I don't exonerate my own country, by the way). My word, any US politician who, for example, suggested that the price of petrol (gas, yeah?) should go up to even half of what we are paying in the UK would be out on his ear in half an hour...

So there's China, India, Australia, the US... they're not that bothered. So I turn my thermostat down by a degree and shove my plastic milk bottle into the correct slot down the recycling centre. I'll carry on doing it but I'd really like somebody to tell me why I should bother....


29 Oct 21 - 06:40 PM (#4124587)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Oh, it's £1.50 a litre here, just about, by the way. So that's, near as dammit, $2 per litre your end. I'll let you convert that to your wacky gallons. I make it just a bit shy of $8 per your gallon. You up for that, guys? You pay about half of what we pay...

Your oil guys still have a big grip, innit...


06 Nov 21 - 12:53 PM (#4125364)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Back to Trump, in this case, his effect:

Trumpism without Trump: how Republican dog-whistles exploited Democratic divisions

Glenn Youngkin won the Virginia governor’s race by playing dirty over CRT – and the Democrats had no answer [my note: CRT being the non-existent "Critical Race Theory" people are pretending is taught in any K-12 school]

No film director could have choreographed it better. At the very moment Joe Biden emerged from his helicopter into a cold, dark night on the White House south lawn, a new adversary was delivering his victory speech before a hot-blooded crowd in northern Virginia. . . .

The Republican party was back in business, ready to take on a weakened president whose party is racked by infighting. Youngkin showed the way by deploying a formidable new weapon to which Democrats had no answer: a racist culture war fought over children.

The businessman turned politician promised to ban critical race theory (CRT) from Virginia’s schools on his first day in office. It mattered little that CRT, an academic discipline that examines the ways in which racism operates in US laws and society, is not taught in Virginia’s schools.

Moral panic over CRT has been fuelled for more than a year by Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News and other rightwing media, an apparent backlash to racial justice protests that followed the police murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis last year. In such hands, CRT became a catch-all for any teaching about race and American history.

“It is a very convenient soundbite for encapsulating everything about the reckoning after George Floyd’s death and the Black Lives Matter movement,” said Tanya Hernández, a law professor at Fordham University in New York.

“It is a way censor to gag and suppress any kind of reconsideration of our status quo. . . .

Tara Setmayer, a senior adviser to the Lincoln Project, a group opposed to Donald Trump and Trumpism, said: “Republicans are the masters at finding an issue playing on the racial resentment and grievance within the Republican party base and creating this perception that somehow this is a threat to children, to white America, and some type of invasion of the education system.

“Critical race theory doesn’t even exist here and most people don’t know what it is. But it is a masterclass in how perception is reality and, when propaganda isn’t pushed back on, it can metastasise in ways that become problematic in campaigns. That’s exactly what happened in Virginia.”


07 Nov 21 - 10:54 AM (#4125437)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Democrats can whine if they want but its about time they take a course in messaging. To hell with defund the.. or a succint 27 syllable phrase or even fighting fired with fired.


08 Nov 21 - 05:45 AM (#4125522)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Muppets Big Bird said it got vaccinated in the wing. Republicans are crying that government propoganda is being used on kids.


08 Nov 21 - 08:20 AM (#4125534)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

America is an experiment. Founding fathers invented a very flawed version but it is getting better at a glacial speed. People who were born here in the 80's do not believe in the American dream of advancement as much as new immigrants. People from the 60's see more evidence of the America dream than younger folks.
Its been 50 years of giving to the rich but today they will be asked to pay their fair share. America is unique in inventing jazz, rock, hop and scientific discoveries that were gleaned globally.
We know who really are the most anti american, and those are the ones who are the anti scientific 'real americans'.
"If you took Ivermectin, you might be anti American".
If you dream of shooting immigrants, you might be anti American. etc.


08 Nov 21 - 02:25 PM (#4125565)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

It is hard for me to believe that the guy in the Q yellow T was not just trolling Klepper, but the phrase "Jesus Wept" has occured to me more than once. Don't watch this on a full stomach:

150,000 Percent Sure


08 Nov 21 - 03:36 PM (#4125569)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Whoa. Brainwashing is easy, apparently.

But anything that is negative isn't Trump's fault. That's kind of what we hear out here in the Hinterland. Living in a red state can be difficult when it comes to common sense.


08 Nov 21 - 04:27 PM (#4125575)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I underwent hypnosis trials in college. I was amazed.
Yes it is easy.
I figure if I got to be a good practioner of hypnosis 4 years later its got to be easy for nearly anyone. Susceptability and effectiveness follows your typical bell shaped curve.


09 Nov 21 - 06:26 AM (#4125610)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

gop cartoon murder of democrats


09 Nov 21 - 10:11 AM (#4125626)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump ‘throws sand’ in gears of Capitol attack inquiry amid legal setbacks

Ex-president wages a court battle to thwart House committee from obtaining White House records for inquiry into the Capitol assault

The list of significant legal setbacks is lengthy for the former president and real estate mogul who has long had a reputation for threatening to sue his foes.

Early this year, for example, Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance Jr won a lengthy legal fight to obtain Trump’s tax returns, and in July charged two Trump companies and the Trump Organization’s chief financial officer with a 15 year tax fraud scheme, which the companies and the CFO have denied in pleas.

On 4 November, a second grand jury was convened by Vance to hear more evidence about the financial practices of the Trump Organization and possibly bring more charges, according to the Washington Post.

Trump suffered another legal setback when a New York court ordered him to give a deposition in October that lasted more than four hours in an old lawsuit by men alleging they were attacked in 2015 by Trump security guards at a demonstration outside Trump Tower in Manhattan.

Meanwhile, in his latest high stakes court fight, Trump’s attorneys have launched a legal blitz invoking executive privilege to block the House select committee from obtaining hundreds of pages of documents from the National Archives the committee seeks as it investigates the 6 January Capitol riot and what role Trump played in it.


"A federal judge at a hearing on Trump’s legal challenges on 4 November voiced strong scepticism about his lawyers’ executive privilege claims to keep the committee from getting most of the records it wants, noting that President Joe Biden approved turning them over."

If he wasn't such a nasty S.O.B. his successor might have cut him some slack. Let's just hope this gets far enough before the mid-term elections to help bring a few of the old-fashioned simply conservative GOP candidates out of hiding.


09 Nov 21 - 02:42 PM (#4125646)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Steve Bannon has arrested development evidenced by his 70's hair style and fashion statement. He was sent a supeona by AG Garland, who is more judge than prosecutor, but Steve immediately put it in the bottom of his bird cage.


09 Nov 21 - 03:36 PM (#4125656)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome

Sorry Donuel but those outside your view of things do not understand these cryptic comments on a subject that may affect everyone in the world.

Is he going to get nailed or is he still a danger to everyone?


09 Nov 21 - 04:13 PM (#4125658)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Sarcastic parody takes on current events like in the Onion amuse me but if you want straight up reporting about Steve I would look in your own backyard where Bannon is probably in communication with other nazi regiemes in Ukraine, Germany, Italy and other hotbeds of fascism.
Over here he had a seat at the Insurrection table at the Willard Hotel accross from the White House along with Rudy, Eastman and other coup planners. Is he a danger? I suppose he is as dangerous as we allow him to be. Thats why AG Garland should act quicker in my opinion. Nazis will never 'like' Democrats so we may as well risk martyr worship and put Steve in Jail for contempt of Congress.


09 Nov 21 - 08:13 PM (#4125684)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

There are no "Nazi regimes" in Ukraine, Germany or Italy. Ukraine is a democracy closely allied to the EU, operating under the rule of law. It is closely allied to the EU, belonging to the Single Market and the EEA. It has aspirations to join the EU, a wish broadly shared by a majority of its citizens, and is expected to apply for membership in the near future. Germany and Italy are both democracies in the European Union. I regard it as rather insulting for anyone to claim that these countries are run by Nazi regimes, and it appears to betray a certain degree of ignorance. I also find it odd that such an intemperate claim could be made by someone who lives in a country that is gun-crazy, can elect people like Trump, has extremely illiberal abortion laws in many states and which still strings up or electrocutes a good number of its citizens every year. We don't happen to get those things in Ukraine, Germany or Italy, last time I checked...


09 Nov 21 - 08:55 PM (#4125687)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Prosecutor in Trump camp's effort to reverse Georgia result considering special grand jury

Gwen Keyes Fleming, former DeKalb County, Georgia district attorney, talks with Rachel Maddow about expectations that the district attorney in Fulton County, Georgia, Fani Willis, will use a special grand jury in the ongoing investigation of Donald Trump's efforts to push Georgia officials to overturn the state's 2020 election results.


09 Nov 21 - 09:23 PM (#4125693)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Hungary and Belaruse have strong man fascist regiemes. I would love to have Bannon's communications with them and other large nazi movements.
Bannon bought an Italian monestary for a European base of operations.


09 Nov 21 - 10:27 PM (#4125696)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/23/529634908/germany-tries-to-root-out-neo-nazis-inside-the-ranks-of-its-military
When a member here posted that Hitler merely "hoodwinked" Germany, I suspect a nazi sympathizer. I am not surprised some Euro eyes are closed to the growing nationalism in Europe.


10 Nov 21 - 02:55 AM (#4125704)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You didn't say Hungary. You said Ukraine, Germany and Italy, none of which has a fascist REGIME. As for Belarus, it's no more "in my backyard" than it's in yours. Most countries probably contain people of fascistic persuasion, but such people don't constitute "regimes" unless they are running the whole country. Let's stick to the facts, eh (and stop digging...)?


10 Nov 21 - 05:12 AM (#4125721)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump was ordered to hand over all 1-6 documents to the Congressional commitee and his claim of executive priviledge and overbroad investigation with no public benefit was rejected.


10 Nov 21 - 10:44 AM (#4125751)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Read the news today of Belarus pushing back against the EU - via Poland's border, grinding refugees between the two of them. It would be your backyard but for Brexit - except proximity didn't change. It's a small world.


10 Nov 21 - 11:27 AM (#4125755)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well Belarus is a long way from the United Kingdom. It's a former part of the USSR (which was never in my backyard either) and has never been a member of the EU, so brexit doesn't enter into it. Geographical distance and backyardery are not quite the same thing, taking political allegiances and the method of governance into account as well as proximity. I'm sure you don't regard the countries on the north coast of South America as being in YOUR backyard (they mostly wouldn't like it either).

As for what's happening on the Belarus/Poland border, Lukashenko has given "tourist visas" to potential refugees from Syria and Iraq, positively inviting them in, enabling them to cross the country easily via Minsk to the Polish border. He's done this in retaliation against EU sanctions. Whatever you think of Poland's response, make no bones about who's responsible for this.

And you often tell me that I don't "get" the politics of YOUR backyard...


10 Nov 21 - 03:53 PM (#4125777)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve, we evidently didn't read the same news this morning. Lukashenko is funneling all of those people back to the EU (as you said) - but this isn't like the US and South America stuff, this is like the US and Mexico or the US and Canada - the borders of a sovereign nation. Not sure if you consider the EU a sovereign nation or a loose affiliation, whatever, but you used to be a part of it - as is Poland - on opposite sides, yes, but still, a part of it. I'd think there's a little appreciation for the old political affiliation. Here's a map. Netherlands, Germany, and Poland are between you and Belarus. 1,300 miles. It's nearly 2,000 from the southern most point of Texas to the northernmost city in Colombia, in South Ameria.

West Accuses Belarus of Orchestrating Migrant Crisis at Polish Border

Poland has massed thousands of troops on its border with Belarus to keep out Middle Eastern migrants who have set up camp there, as Western officials accuse Belarus’s leader of intentionally trying to create a new migrant crisis in Europe.

The standoff along the razor-wire fence separating the two countries has intensified a long-simmering confrontation between Belarus, a repressive former Soviet republic, and the European Union, which includes Poland.

Western officials say that President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus is allowing asylum seekers from the Middle East into his country by the thousands and then funneling them westward toward Poland and the E.U., and has escalated that strategy this week. They say he is retaliating against sanctions imposed after his disputed 2020 election victory.

The sharp increase in tensions has rattled European officials, with images of desperate migrants evoking the refugee crisis of 2015. The confrontation with Belarus, a close Russian ally, also raises new security concerns.

E.U. leaders are scrambling to strike a balance between protecting the bloc’s external borders and preventing a worsening humanitarian crisis among the migrants camped along the edge of a forest in freezing weather.

On Tuesday, Polish authorities said, at least 3,000 people who hoped to enter the European Union were gathered near the Kuznica border crossing, near the Belarusian city of Grodno. Hundreds could be seen camped just feet away from the border fence in video footage provided by both sides. In response to the growing numbers, Poland increased its forces in the area to more than 17,000 soldiers, border guards and police, Polish officials said.


The US has it's own awful way of dealing with migrants and refugees. At least the camps are a bit warmer, but that is no benefit. It's just that the EU camps and the advance of winter are in the news now. Trump broke a lot of things here, and it is taking Biden a long time to fix them; Trumps response to the pandemic is part of the reason it's taking so long.

I'm not sure where this was going, but I think it's time to shift back to discussing Trump.


10 Nov 21 - 06:04 PM (#4125794)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The border between Poland and Belarus is firm. The two states are not friendly. Poland is in the EU, Belarus is not and is run by a dictator. There are no agreements between the two regarding free movement between them. The camps you refer to are in Belarus, not the EU, so you are wrong about that. In addition, Lukashenko is not funnelling people "back" to the EU at all (and that is not what I said, by the way). The refugees were never EU residents. Yes, I'm all for getting back to Trump, but let's not get careless with facts. Do take care to choose news sources that are accurate.

What I would say is that there is a humanitarian crisis building, all the work of Lukashenko, but, as with all such crises, it's very difficult to stand on principle when the well-being of thousands of people is threatened. So at the moment I can't quite get my head round what Poland (or the EU) should be doing. What I can get my head round is the fact that Lukashenko will never do the right thing.


11 Nov 21 - 05:35 AM (#4125851)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Presidential records and communications of Trump on 1-6 is to be handed over this Friday to the 1-6 commitee. The judge ruled that a president is not a King and (the plaintif) Trump is not the president with executive powers.


12 Nov 21 - 08:22 AM (#4125949)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Another injunction will delay records of 1-6 until Nov. 30

I just learned The Proud Boys use a Disney tune for their anthem.
They love Rittenhaus. https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/01/14/PMJS/26e0d3b3-1b9e-4813-b9bd-d530508dcee4-Rittenhouse2.JPG?width=660&height=500&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp


12 Nov 21 - 05:17 PM (#4126001)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Bannon is indicted.


12 Nov 21 - 07:03 PM (#4126006)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Bannon is a parasite who thinks he is Kaisar Sosa. He has an anti Midas touch with a bullying force of will. He is not bound by loyalty. He moves from host to host like a virus be it Palin, Cruz and Trump. If he does go to jail he will have fantasies about Hitler getting a reduced sentence and writting his own Mein Kampf. He is not a competant ultimate villain like emporer Papatine but he will still cry betrayal in the end and will become a broken figure like Joe McCarthy/
At least thats what my crystal ball says about Steve. He is not a loyal mob gangster who serves time at the behest of his Godfather. Like Trump he only serves his own interests that are flawed and misguided.
Monday when he surrenders it will be his high sewer water mark, his largest flash in the pan, his 'Waterloo' that will flush him from history.


13 Nov 21 - 09:33 AM (#4126045)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

On the other hand a two year delay of multiple appeals is possible but not likely.


14 Nov 21 - 10:38 AM (#4126119)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Steve Bannon faces federal charges for contempt of Congress

"Bannon is not in custody right now. I'm told he's expected to self-surrender to authorities on Monday and to appear in federal court here in D.C. later that day. Obviously, this is just the start of this prosecution. But it's worth noting here that if Bannon were to be convicted, each count here carries a minimum of 30 days in jail and a maximum of one year."


14 Nov 21 - 05:27 PM (#4126170)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

:^/ alert The Fox channel has a fall line up catering to the Trump base;
Autopsy Wars, Dr. pimple sucker, Wheelchair theives, Tattoo bloopers, Ninja cockroachs, porn hoarders, Epic gun fails, Roadkill barbecue, Skunk people, Meth Boss, Porn Hoarders of Texas, Storage Trash.


15 Nov 21 - 05:49 AM (#4126214)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

One nation under one God is normal in the Middle East so former trump security advisor wants the same for the good ol USA, Texas Christians rejoice

We're gonna hafta burn the old Constitution, for God's sake. Amen


15 Nov 21 - 07:40 AM (#4126223)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Establishing a national religion and banniing other religions is a populist, unconstitutionl, authoritarian idea. Bolstered by the banning of Trump speech from facebook and twitter, the right feels justified to ban Free Speech by traitors. Traitors are defined as anti Trump voices.

Go big or go home Herr Hitler er I mean General Flynn.
It seems we were already told fake news is not the real press.
As for assembling at Trump rallys, exceptions will be made.
We won't need to petition the government if the right IS the government.


15 Nov 21 - 11:22 AM (#4126240)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Obstruction and Failure to Produce Documents - the charges against Steve Bannon, who turned himself into the FBI this morning.

There should be a hearing this afternoon to read the charges.


17 Nov 21 - 08:03 AM (#4126458)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

WHEN HYPNOTISTS GO BAD

"The Shrink Next Door' is a docu drama that is a TRUE story of a psychiatrist who took over the lives of vulnerable patients.
It stars Will Ferrel, Katherine Hawn and Paul Rudd. If you ever watch this TV series you may see a similarity to what Donald Trump did to America,


17 Nov 21 - 10:18 AM (#4126473)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I heard someone from the public radio show Marketplace interview DeJoy this morning. Until we can get him out the mail-in ballots are in danger. As is the whole postal system.


17 Nov 21 - 07:09 PM (#4126546)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu

I think of the Q Anon 'shaman'
as the guy in the Halloween costume,
except of course that January 6 was NOT Halloween.
His sentencing was today.


17 Nov 21 - 08:33 PM (#4126558)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

41 months. It's a start.


18 Nov 21 - 12:00 PM (#4126623)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Texts Show Kimberly Guilfoyle Bragged About Raising Millions for Rally That Fueled Capitol Riot

Text messages reviewed by ProPublica represent the strongest indication yet that members of the Trump family inner circle were involved in financing and organizing the Jan. 6 “Save America” rally, which immediately preceded the Capitol riot.

Kimberly Guilfoyle, a top fundraiser for former President Donald Trump and the girlfriend of his son Donald Trump Jr., boasted to a GOP operative that she had raised $3 million for the rally that helped fuel the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

In a series of text messages sent on Jan. 4 to Katrina Pierson, the White House liaison to the event, Guilfoyle detailed her fundraising efforts and supported a push to get far-right speakers on the stage alongside Trump for the rally, which sought to overturn the election of President Joe Biden.

Guilfoyle’s texts, reviewed by ProPublica, represent the strongest indication yet that members of the Trump family circle were directly involved in the financing and organization of the rally. The attack on the Capitol that followed it left five dead and scores injured.


18 Nov 21 - 01:25 PM (#4126630)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

That sounds like trouble in paradise for Don Jr.
"Kim who? ... Oh we dated a couple times but she's NOT family."

What next, Don Sr., hitting up Tiffany's Greek billionaire fiance' for a loan?


19 Nov 21 - 08:57 AM (#4126698)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Please Don't squeeze the Q anon charmin.


19 Nov 21 - 09:26 AM (#4126701)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ya know I would gladly vote for a healthy 80 year old John McCain at this point, if only to steer the Republican party back to sanity.
Even if Liz Cheney were his running mate.


19 Nov 21 - 09:43 AM (#4126702)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

McCarthy took to the floor last night and spoke for 8 hours during the period when there wasn't a limit on remarks. I suspect some of that jabber will be used against him later.

Today they'll vote on the bill they tried to vote on last night before they were so rudely interrupted.


19 Nov 21 - 10:57 AM (#4126708)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Similar to the scene where Brian (Life of Brian) addressed a crowd, McCarthy asked "No one voted for Biden to be FDR" whereupon several Democrats exclaimed "i did".

Chronicling the events of the confederates and insurrectists are mainly Stilly River Sage (a clever double entendre) and Donuel. Stilly is the west coast Washingtonian while I am the east coast Washingtonian. She prefers straight reporting while I play the color man.

I have assumed a coming conflagration moving past the cold civil war tactics we now encounter. I also assume Stilly does not have such predilictions. However I am sure worry is another matter.


19 Nov 21 - 12:58 PM (#4126721)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

here is the missing -ion-


19 Nov 21 - 03:10 PM (#4126732)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I think the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict will be interpreted as good news for the Trmpers.


19 Nov 21 - 07:32 PM (#4126752)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Of course. In a land where we have never been able to pass an anti lynching law it is SOP to allow white vigilantes to shoot who they please at what was essentially a race riot.

As for kyle he was easily manipulated by white power thugs to flash WP hand signs while out on 'their' bail money.


20 Nov 21 - 06:46 AM (#4126780)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

One thing about cases such as this one is that we recipients of selective media information can never know all that is needed to know in order to properly judge the case. Ironically, there is more than a hint of lynch mentality in that last post. Accept the verdict of the jury and move on. The system might be flawed but it's the best we've got. Just shrug and get on with life. I'd much rather you made a bloody great big fuss about your stupid laws that allow all and sundry to tote guns around as if they're Billy The Kid.


20 Nov 21 - 08:17 AM (#4126786)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The point that guns have evolved is a very important fact. We re still allowing guns to evolve. The ultimate evolution of the gun will be a gun that causes the victim to immediately see things from your point of view. Eventually the gun will be the ultimate peace keeper, meanwhile guns are still in a primtive dinosaur blood and gore phase.


20 Nov 21 - 09:35 AM (#4126790)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

The Rittenhouse verdict shows, to me, that the US, as a country, will take years or even decades to prove that it is worthy as calling itself part of civilised society.


20 Nov 21 - 09:44 AM (#4126793)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Another white guy gets away with murder. He'll dine out on this the rest of his life—with the proviso that people who become famous this way don't, in my experience, lead long, productive lives.


20 Nov 21 - 11:50 AM (#4126800)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Well the jury didn't agree with you. There's just the small chance that they knew a bit more detail and nuance than we did.


20 Nov 21 - 12:41 PM (#4126805)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Stop right there. There was a bizarre judge in this case, who among other things, wouldn't let the prosecution refer to the men killed and injured as "victims." It was a really strange case, but a 17-year-old kid has been thoroughly vetted in the court of public opinion and found to have travelled across state lines gunning for a fight, he got it, and he should rot in jail. As the meme making the rounds today says:

"I jumped into the Polar Bear enclosure at the zoo, then had to kill all the polar bears in self-defense."


20 Nov 21 - 01:06 PM (#4126806)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator

There is also a good chance that the jury were not objective and were strongly influenced by the opinions and guidance of the judge, and the conduct of the trial. I am sure I read, somewhere, there was only one black jury member who was referred to in the trial as 'the black'.


20 Nov 21 - 04:53 PM (#4126818)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

"Stop right there."

Wow. Now I don't know exactly what was going through his mind. In this country, murder means that you killed someone with malicious intent. That he killed people is not in doubt. The malicious intent was challenged. The case was put and the jury failed to convict. So less of the "stop right there" if you don't mind. I'm expressing uncertainty, not saying he shouldn't have been convicted. You're expressing lynch-mob certainty ("rot in jail," etc.) in the face of a judge and jury who had far more evidence to hand then you have. You may be right. As with masks, I'm in awe of your certainty. As I age, I'm finding that I see things less and less in black and white. By the way, a wise prosecution service can see this kind of thing coming. There are various levels of manslaughter charges available, and it's possible to pass a guilty verdict but with the mitigation of diminished responsibility. An all-or-nothing murder charge levelled at a panicky teenager that could send him to his death is a downright risky strategy, and the risk on this occasion hasn't paid off. Blame your inept justice system.


20 Nov 21 - 05:31 PM (#4126820)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I note that your president shares my view that we should accept the verdict of the jury. We can't pick and choose, can we? We can express disappointment loud and clear but undermining the justice system is not an option.


20 Nov 21 - 06:28 PM (#4126824)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Tone deaf is tone deaf. I watched the entire televised trial on a channel without commercials. Even what one could see in 2 dimensions was shocking, like the judge brewing a cup of coffee and doodling on his lap top at the bench paying no attention to the prosecution's final argument which was the most brilliant of the trial. What is not said is still communcation. The judge was rapt when the defense delivered the final argument that had 4 exclamations of "Comon People" and " The state only has video out of focus hocus pocus ". (the HD version was witheld)
The prosecution chose its charges poorly to begin with.
I'm not surprised at the verdict, afterall even Zimmerman was cleared with a self defense plea.


21 Nov 21 - 06:55 AM (#4126865)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

Here in the Land of Oz we have people protesting vaccine mandates holding a sign saying " Jab mandate vaccinations without exemptions are a violation of our 14th constitution amendment!"

posted on this facebook page, Sunday 21st Nov Australian time with a comment -
These two people were protesting in Mt Gambier, South Australia this week.

The 14th amendment is part of the Constitution of United States of America, made in 1868 after the US Civil War to guarantee citizenship and equal civil and legal rights to African Americans and the formerly enslaved.

How deluded do you have to be to think the US Constitution applies here? ...

sandra
I'm not on facebook so can't link directly to the post


21 Nov 21 - 09:54 AM (#4126873)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The last few bickering posts have been removed - let's leave this to the discussion of Trump, please.

Fueled by Trump-inspired grievance, attempts to terrorize public officials escalate
Through public records requests, several previously unreported incidents came to light — while Capitol Police officials say the agency expects to log more than 9,000 threats this year.

When Rep. Joe Neguse delivered his closing remarks in February at the impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump, he expressed concern about the direction of a nation that weeks earlier witnessed a homegrown attack in its capital.

“I fear, like many of you do, that the violence we saw on that terrible day may be just the beginning,” said Neguse, D-Colo., who as an impeachment manager had a nationally televised role in prosecuting Trump on a charge that he incited the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

Neguse ended optimistically, offering a favorite quote from Martin Luther King Jr.: “I’ve decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.”

The Senate acquitted Trump. A day later, Valentine’s Day, the propulsive threatening discourse that Neguse worried was taking root in American democracy landed on his doorstep.

A suspicious letter mailed to the congressman’s home was opened to reveal a picture of Neguse clipped from The New York Times. An unknown substance, suspected to be feces, marked an “X” over the photo, according to records kept by the police department in Lafayette, Colorado, and obtained by NBC News.

The disturbing incident, which has not been previously reported, was referred to the Capitol Police for investigation and is among the more than 9,000 threats the agency is expected to log this year. It’s also representative of the escalating security risks confronting public officials from the federal and state levels down to local school boards.

“I had one person call and say, ‘This is the gun I’m going to use. I’m going to put three bullets in the back of his head,’” Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said last month on MSNBC. “You find yourself feeling uncomfortable sitting next to an open window in your home. And that’s not something I ever thought I would have to think in this country.”

Quantifying exactly how dangerous things have become is a challenge, but even elections officials — a less prominent rung of public service that is nonetheless central to democracy — are reporting threats.

And officials with the Capitol Police, the agency responsible for protecting members of Congress, have said they expect the number of threats against members to surpass the 8,600 handled in 2020 and continue a significant surge during the Trump era. In 2017, the first year of Trump’s one term, only 3,900 threats were reported. (The department is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, making specifics scarce.)

The rest of the article is at the link; on the bottom paywall click to read now without supporting the site.


21 Nov 21 - 09:59 AM (#4126875)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Trump tells Navarro to 'protect executive privilege' in House COVID-19 probe

Former President Trump said Saturday in a statement that he is telling former aide Peter Navarro to “protect executive privilege” amid a House probe into the federal government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The Communist Democrats are engaging in yet another Witch Hunt, this time going after my Administration’s unprecedented and incredible coronavirus response, despite the fact that, sadly, more Americans have died this year from COVID than in all of 2020,” Trump said in a statement shared through his spokesperson, Liz Harrington.

“I’m telling Peter Navarro to protect executive privilege and not let these unhinged Democrats discredit our great accomplishments,” Trump added.


If you happen to see any of the messaging coming out of Trump's Florida home he is still calling himself "President Donald Trump" and has as much pomp and letterhead as he thinks he can get away with to try to look like he still has some presidential powers.


21 Nov 21 - 10:06 AM (#4126876)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

And here is possibly the most bizarre recent development of all - the suggestion that if the House is majority GOP after 2022 that they should "install Donald Trump as the Speaker of the House." Bearing in mind that the head of the Senate or the House is the chief strategy person for their party and runs the whole institution in a supposedly honorable and responsible way (one could argue the Newt Gingrich was one of the first really corrupt officials to turn that on its head, and McConnell is still there with his lizard-brain trying to defeat Democracy.)

The 'Donald Trump for speaker' idea won't die
Earlier this week in an interview with onetime Trump White House political guru Steve Bannon, Mark Meadows said aloud what lots of Trump-y types have been thinking for a while.

Meadows, who served as Trump's White House chief of staff, said that if Republicans regain the House majority in 2022, they should install the former President as speaker in January 2023.

"I would love to see the gavel go from (House Speaker) Nancy Pelosi to Donald Trump," Meadows told Bannon. "You talk about melting down -- people would go crazy."

Meadows may be the most prominent Trump ally to float the idea, but he isn't the first.

In June, the former President had this exchange with conservative radio talk-show host Wayne Allyn Root:

ROOT: "Why not, instead of just waiting for 2024, and I'm hoping you run in 2024, but why not run in 2022 for the United States Congress, a House seat in Florida, win big, lead us to a dramatic landslide victory, taking the House by 50 seats, and then you become the speaker of the House?"

TRUMP: "You know, it's very interesting. That's so interesting. And people have said, run for the Senate, OK, run for the Senate, but you know what? Your idea might be better. It's very interesting."

In a subsequent interview with Fox News, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy seemed to give the idea even more credence.

"You know, I have talked to President Trump many times," McCarthy told Fox's Brian Kilmeade. "He tells me he wants to be speaker, and I think he should be president."


21 Nov 21 - 01:49 PM (#4126889)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The audacity of Trump includes his recent attempt to send his 'diplomat' to a foreign country for policy talks.
The country declined.


21 Nov 21 - 05:22 PM (#4126909)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Calling a stroke penalty on oneself is a honorable act in golf as well.
The Republican party’s vilification of members of Congress who have criticized Donald Trump or supported bipartisan legislation is “ruining America”, New Hampshire’s governor, Chris Sununu, said on Sunday, adding another tacit voice to the small but growing internal opposition to the former president.
The Republican party has ruled that Senator Cheney is not a Republicn anymore and may in fact not even be a white supremist.


21 Nov 21 - 08:23 PM (#4126938)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

This is not low-level pandering material.


22 Nov 21 - 12:32 AM (#4126946)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney

following Donuel's post of 21 Nov 21 - 01:49 PM

Trump ‘Shadow Diplomacy’? Deploys ‘Ambassador’ To Address Serbia-Kosovo Tensions

The Biden White House mocked Trump’s claim to have an ‘envoy ambassador’ making foreign visits for him


22 Nov 21 - 07:43 AM (#4126967)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Trump Speaker idea is bizarre news to me. What State could he represent? Maybe being a Senator would be better. He could replace Manchin.
The world got used to 2 Popes so maybe 2 Presidents in the goverment only seems rational to some. What if Donald loses the Speaker choice?
I am more befuddled by these ideas than the convolutions of black holes.
Thus is the nature of history and rewriting history with misinformation and 'Patriot Purge' ideas that are clearly represented in the history of Rome. Holy Shit, I am becoming Senator Byrd!
Bottom line...The bizarre is as normal as quantum mechanics.


22 Nov 21 - 09:02 AM (#4126970)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The bizarre is normal like quantum mechanics.
The facts are then corn holed by wanton fanatics.
Philosophers try to order our mind
but stark raving nuts is all that they find.
So lets all hand over our rational thought
to AI computers and crack pot robots.

donuel


22 Nov 21 - 11:46 AM (#4126984)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The new normal
like a guillotine
The new normal is growing so fast and furious I just can't keep up.
Like in WW II the new normal is created in courts and by bullets.
It ended in a new technological conflagration of incineration.
A pandemic has created new normals that I can't count.
63 dead per some mass shootings is beyond my scope.
Today we learned to never attend holiday parades.
A lame duck President inciting murder in DC.
Lies are faster than the speed of sound.
Keyboard Nazis defend a new liberty.
A freedom to never ever vaccinate.
They say Democrats eat babies.
Its not said, if or maybe.
Dehumanization is easy.
When facts are flimsy
and lies are louder
We're going down
faster each day
in such a way
you can't
believe
it.








pretty soon you will lose you head


22 Nov 21 - 01:37 PM (#4126993)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Mister Trouble never hangs around
When he hears this Mighty sound.

"Here I come to save the day"

That means that Rittenhaus is on his way.
Yes sir, when there is a wrong to right
Rittenhaus will join the fight.
On the sea or on the land,
He gets the situation well in hand.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/mightymouselyrics.html


22 Nov 21 - 06:28 PM (#4127029)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Roger Stone and Alex Jones are now subpeoned by the 1-6 commitee.

If they also refuse to appear like Bannon, will they share a cell?


23 Nov 21 - 08:04 AM (#4127064)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

3 Republican congressmen have offered Kyle Rittenhaus a staff position.
Best of all is Trump's endorsement for Kyle to be President of the NRA.
This has dissapointed the Proud Boys who hoped to appoint Kyle as their Grand Tyranysaurus in charge of BLM demonstration security. ":^/
A rash of Soutern lawfirms are now advertising "Get away with murder- ask us how". New standards for self defense are being developed as we speak.


24 Nov 21 - 01:52 PM (#4127178)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Verdicts against the nazi demonstrators in Charlotsville that ended in murder include a 25 million dollar award to victims.

The Aubry murder resulted in all 3 white men guilty of felony murder.

Only 34 members of proud boy or oath keepers are under federal arrest for the 1-6 crimes.


25 Nov 21 - 07:07 AM (#4127218)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is no going into the past and killing Hitler. There is no warning from the past or present that would kill Trump revenge so I resign my watch hoping the actions of good people sway the future toward peace.
Suspect anyone who has motives to downplay the importance of Trump fascism. Condemn the actual Trump advocate. Silence or hiding only works for the few in a land of malious landmine ideas.


29 Nov 21 - 07:32 PM (#4127590)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The CIA has a cool website with much of interest both information and historically. In the latter category is some recent writing on what it was like to brief the former occupant
.


01 Dec 21 - 09:58 AM (#4127719)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Vanity Fair has an ad that runs in my Instagram feed that suggests Ivanka Trump will be the next one to be charged in this whole Trump Crimes being prosecuted (in particular, she got in early in the 2017 inauguration committee, where millions of dollars were siphoned off to various individuals). That ad has been running for ages and still hasn't proven to be what is happening, so I guess I didn't miss anything by not subscribing to another online journal. And Rachel Maddow will talk about it if it happens.


09 Dec 21 - 06:38 PM (#4128516)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Fresh Air's Terry Gross is interviewing Barton Gellman today:

from The Atlantic: Trump's Next Coup has Already Begun

by Barton Gellman a Pultzer Prize winning journalist.

I guess the grimmest understanding of this article is that Trump will run in 2024 and Republicans are working legislative assemblies and State governents as well as officials who are in the ratification lineup of the next election. As well as electors.


09 Dec 21 - 08:21 PM (#4128524)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

For awhile I have reminded folks that the Putin path to success is to control those who count the votes and not the voters. Sledgehammers are being replaced by jack hammers that are cutting the base of pillars that hold up Democracy and the meaning of elections. Meanwhile the Democrats are studying marketing 101 while the Republicans are getting their PHD.


11 Dec 21 - 03:44 PM (#4128671)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

I pulled up Google News and see that Trump is clouding "Pence's effort to lay groundwork for 2024 presidential bid." That's fine - neither of them belongs in high office.

In another thread, Devin Nunes is not going to run again (Yes!) for Congress next year, instead choosing to run the new Trump media company (already under investigation because of huge donations from Saudi sources).
In many ways, Nunes is embracing the role his detractors have long accused him of playing, as Trump’s ultimate yes man. Early in the Trump presidency, leading Democrats fumed that he was walking away from his grave responsibilities as chair of the House intelligence committee to be Trump’s “stooge” and “fixer”. Now, though, he is walking away from Congress to serve Trump, without pretending that anything else is at stake.

Further down in the same article: "Some of that divisiveness, and the chaos that often erupts in its wake, is likely to greet him as he starts his new job. Two financial regulatory agencies are already investigating a $1.25bn business deal to take the Trump Media & Technology Group public."

The news that is most likely to sink Trump is that Capitol attack panel obtains PowerPoint that set out plan for Trump to stage coup
(Presentation turned over by Mark Meadows made several recommendations for Trump to pursue to retain presidency) This one is more than thinking out loud. This one, even though it's pixels, is in print.


14 Dec 21 - 06:58 AM (#4128897)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

A giant screen powerpoint presentation is new criminal evidence!?

I remember the days of microfilm being used by enemies of the state.


15 Dec 21 - 06:42 AM (#4128963)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump's chief of staff Mark Meadows is trying to shovel out his barn but he is no Hercules. His book 'Chief of the chief' went on sale to the consternation of Trump and has caused Mark to now call his own book to be fake news. Now it looks like he will go to jail for not showing up in contempt of Congress. Courts have ruled against his claims of executive priviledge. Is he the first rat to be trapped on the sinking ship of insurrection?

I am hopeful my side bet on a failure of democracy will be lost.
Too many failures of the coup and an honorable judiciary appear to be the saving grace.

Some say Mark Meadows is the John Dean of the former president. More bad news for Donald is that his tax returns can finally be scrutinized by the 1-6 commitee and his accountant is testifying against him.


15 Dec 21 - 01:53 PM (#4129006)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

The 'saving grace' of many in the Trump regime was that their self-regard inserted large streaks of incompetence into their multi-level abuses of power.

Unfortunately this is simply schooling for the next time. This is not only a partisan observation. The ways of subversion know no ideology.

Over fifteen years ago I was conversing with a man in Walmart based only on our waiting in the same line and wearing tags that indicated we were working for the same company. I made some non-partisan light comment on national politics and he went off, not so much on me, but on the horrible horrible leftists endangering the country and how they needed to go against the wall. I came away a little bit shaken with the amount of emotion that erupted.


15 Dec 21 - 05:00 PM (#4129027)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

You'd do yourself a favor to listen to the thoughts of historian Heather Cox Richardson. I catch her every couple of weeks, and this particular one was shared today by a friend (it's a few days old) and I sat through the hour amazed at what she knows but also at how clearly she tells the story of history.

The large reason lots of the social programs of today are under fire is because of the rich slave owners in the first 150 years of the country, trying to either hold onto their slaves and prosperous system of government, or keep freed slaves and other poor people from voting in a way that would mean they get services and help from the government (that the rich southern landowners would be taxed for).

Trump is, in her telling, a symptom of the problem.


15 Dec 21 - 07:32 PM (#4129031)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

She reminded me that 90% of citizens have not taken poli sci 101 or know the true stench of States Rights. You did hear her take on the pendulum of politics? I erroneously take for granted that people know the American timeline and swinging ideology. My wife taught the history of American economics at Georgetown which makes for interesting conversation at home and dad was a Constitutional Law professor. What I consider dumbed down posts for social media maybe isn't if the audience has few fundamentals. or not.
Richardson is a good professor.


16 Dec 21 - 06:48 AM (#4129064)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Your saving grace post is true and also if the competant are discovered - they are fired or thrown under the bus.

What is the Trump 2024 dream team?
VP Mike Lindell
Senate leader Steve King
Speaker Jim Jordan (sorry Margie) he's a man.


16 Dec 21 - 08:34 AM (#4129071)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The subject of modern slavery probably can't be approached here. The third rail for the right is slavery while there is still a lust for slavery among the extremists. They want it but have to a go at it obliquely with nullification, institutionalized racism and private prison labor.
Slavery is still an existential global problem!
At any given time in 2016, an estimated 40.3 million people are in modern slavery, including 24.9 million in forced labour and 15.4 million in forced marriage.
It means there are 5.4 victims of modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the world.
1 in 4 victims of modern slavery are children.
Out of the 24.9 million people trapped in forced labour, 16 million people are exploited in the private sector such as domestic work, construction or agriculture; 4.8 million persons in forced sexual exploitation, and 4 million persons in forced labour imposed by state authorities.
Women and girls are disproportionately affected by forced labour, accounting for 99% of victims in the commercial sex industry, and 58% in other sectors.
Source: Global Estimates of Modern Slavery: Forced Labour and Forced Marriage , Geneva, September 2017.

With recent Supream Court decisions states rights could include a form of elective slavery just short of purchased ownership of people in states like Mississippi or Texas that could bypass the judiciary. This may not be as hypothetical as you think. Republican think tanks 'dare to dream'.
It does depend on how you define Democracy.


16 Dec 21 - 11:31 AM (#4129088)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Kanye is an ethinicutioner. (a traitor to his own people.


16 Dec 21 - 05:15 PM (#4129117)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Its odd how folks are awed with election fraud.
Secret squads casting broad flaws from abroad?
The rest applaud and nod to the Fox facade of
lies.


17 Dec 21 - 07:16 PM (#4129251)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Slightly off topic, but over the years working in the oil 'bidness' even in Alaska i've run into both Southerners and Texans (I think Texans are in a class by themselves). And have heard the argument, usually as an aside because it's not worth having and out-and-out about the (US) Civil War across regional lines. But two cute responses have come up.

The first is from my favorite engineer who grew up hardscrabble in Pennsylvania and does not suffer fools. When he heard folks try to call it "The War Between The States" his response was simply:

"Losers don't get to name the War!"

And for those who argue that the War was about States' Rights not Slavery, there is the original argument from President Abraham Lincoln, which I've read but don't remember word for word:

"You can't argue for a level of freedom for yourself when that is exactly what you are denying to a whole class of people under your power."

As usual, Lincoln understood it fully and expressed it best. If the United States is ever before a divine tribunal, it will be the words and actions of Lincoln that will represent the best in us.


19 Dec 21 - 08:44 AM (#4129367)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Three US Generals warn of a 2024 insurrection and a break in the chain of command between the Army and National Guard.
They do not think the riots are as dead as Disko;

Everybody, storm the Congress, let's riot
Don't fight the feeling, get out and fight it
fake, fake, fake, fake fake fake
Fake election, fake election

Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Fake mailed ballots, fake mailed ballots
Oh, you can, you can do it very well
You're the best in the world, I can tell

Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Fake election, fake election
Oh, stop the steal, stop the steal
Fake Joe Biden, fake Joe Biden, get real

fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Oh, Fake election, fake election
Shake the cops, shake the cops
Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake

Shake your booty, shake your booty
You can do it, do it
Shake shake, shake shake
Shake policemen, shake policemen

Shake shake, shake shake
Laws are all fake
Right down there, sister
Shake shake, (c'mon) shake shake

Come on do your duty
Oh, do your duty


19 Dec 21 - 09:12 AM (#4129372)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Our goverment is a three legged stool of Executive, Congress and Supream Court.

Supreme Court justices now serve on average longer on average than at any point in American history (28 years) and are gaming their retirements. Life tenure gives justices the perverse incentive to stay on the court until a President with whom they tend to agree sits in the Oval Office, meaning some hold onto their seats past their intellectual primes and wait until the “right” person is elected to the White House to retire.
Life tenure has turned nominations into a political circus. It’s no longer a priority to find the best candidate for the job who will serve with integrity and who has broad life experience. Instead, the party in charge scrambles to find the youngest, often most ideological nominee (who, at the same time, knows the right things to say at a confirmation hearing) in order to control the seat for decades to come.

The Constitution says Federal judges serve as long as they display good behavior. It doesn't say for they serve for a lifetime and what the hell is good behavior??

It was obvious bad behavior when The currwent Court started taaking away freedoms and established law. First they said the old voting law can be cancelled since there there is no more racism regarding elections. Now states are on ther own and do not have to obey Federal voting law of the past.

Second they are taking away Roe V Wade law. It has been slow but the Court used to only grant new or ammeded rights but now they are going backwards for thr first time. Thats bad behavior isn't it?


20 Dec 21 - 07:33 AM (#4129459)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

How do you solve a problem like Joe Manchin?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?
How do you find the words that means Joe Manchin?
A Big Pharma hero! A Fox News guest! A clown!

Many a thing you know you'd like to tell him
Many a thing he ought to understand
But how do you make him stay
And listen to all you say
His rock hard promise has turned into sand?


20 Dec 21 - 09:10 AM (#4129467)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Trump Tower memorial and Pyramid plans are on hold after Melania suggested the White House Rose Garden for his final resting place. :^/


22 Dec 21 - 09:21 AM (#4129629)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Julius Ceasar did it, Hitler did it and Trump America wants to do it again. Whenever people make politics after a religion of a fevered furor they eventually end up with a knife in their gut. I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.
As for religionists they trust that God is on their side. It is more important to know that we are on God's side.


22 Dec 21 - 09:28 AM (#4129634)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

robo:
"My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure." --President Abraham Lincoln

"You have to do your own growing no matter how tall your grandfather was." --President Abraham Lincoln

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." --President Abraham Lincoln

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." --President Abraham Lincoln

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." --President Abraham Lincoln

"I don’t think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday." --President Abraham Lincoln

"Avoid popularity if you would have peace." --President Abraham Lincoln

"People are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." --President Abraham Lincoln


22 Dec 21 - 02:32 PM (#4129683)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Donuel:

The nice thing about having you around is you are a constant reminder that the methods and thoughts of Donald Trmp know no partisanship.


22 Dec 21 - 09:04 PM (#4129716)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

There's a huge difference in motivation, Robo. Keep that in mind. And Don tends to understand more about the ideas he comes across and shares.

Trump is trying another lawsuit, but it's not going to fly. It's just taking so damned long to put him out of commission, with everyone in his camp dragging their feet and taking the Fifth.

I was curious about the status of his residency at Mar A Lago, so did a search.
Palm Beach town attorney John “Skip” Randolph determined that Trump qualifies as a "bona fide" employee of the Palm Beach resort and is therefore entitled to live there, according to the Sun Sentinel.

After reviewing a 1993 declaration of use agreement between Palm Beach, Trump and his Mar-a-Lago club, Randolph also determined that under the town’s zoning code, private clubs can provide living quarters for bona fide employees.

The definition of a club employee, as described in the zoning code, is:

“Employee means any person generally working onsite for the establishment and includes sole proprietors, partners, limited partners, corporate officers and the like.”

This from a Tampa Bay television channel's news website.

Do you suppose he really wants to leave his Florida golf resort to live in the White House again? If he were to win again he'd probably find a way to stay in Florida most of the time.


23 Dec 21 - 07:34 AM (#4129746)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Raw pagan authoritarian godfather dictatorial litigious conman and ignorant Trump knows no partisanship besides loyalty to himself.

I do have a movable POV that can take a picture from any angle like a 3D laser scanner at times. The rest of the time is just random brain droppings.

There is no cause that mob law is ever correct or just, but Donald is happiest when he can get the mob to do his bidding.

What I don't know is what robo is on about at times which is fine.


23 Dec 21 - 08:14 AM (#4129749)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

When something goes right its hardly reported
Its hardly reported and just goes away
When something goes wrong its talked about strong
Its talked about strong and seems here to stay


23 Dec 21 - 07:12 PM (#4129806)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

What I'm on about is to say what I mean without using unnecessary words.

Those who want to fabricate meaning by a plethora of nouns and modifiers which might or might not amount to anything can be entertaining without being informative. They can also stimulate ideas much as a computer can be programmed to randomly combine words which the mind might not.

Donuel is a constant commentator whose comments may or may not be factual. In this he precisely imitates the Former Occupant. And as the Former Occupant did not perceive himself as evil, but as a hero, this might possibly be the self-image of our thread imp.

I am not concerned about what either Doneul or the other Don understands, because I'm not a mind reader. I have observed a willingness on the part of both those folks to spout BS and seek and or expect approval for same.

I learned a long time ago that the enemy of my enemy ain't my friend.


23 Dec 21 - 08:18 PM (#4129817)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I warn that I am not a linear person.
Humor is truth but not always factual, Commentator is factually biased and poetry has an artistic license of exaggeration
or being understated. After countless moons its too bad I can't call you a friend
but happy hollowdays all the same.
I think your theory is lame.


23 Dec 21 - 08:40 PM (#4129821)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Spot on, robo. I love you, baby (a seasonal quote from my favourite Christmas song...). I'll say no more as ganging up, oh so easy, is not my thing...


23 Dec 21 - 10:01 PM (#4129823)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Fake shell corporations that traded on the stock market joins Trump Media company. Trump now has 300 million from donations in the media company that has no employees except Kevin Nunes.

In 2017, the SEC suspended trading in Atlas Technology International, a company that had gone public in 2014 as an in-home bakery called Sweets & Treats but which said it transferred to new owners two years later, changing its name to Atlas and shifting to touch-screen devices. The business was allegedly part of a “fraudulent scheme” to manipulate the markets by a California businessman named Ahmad Haris Tajyar, according to an SEC complaint, which this year charged Tajyar with securities law violations.

Operating four online brokerage accounts in different names, Tajyar allegedly bought and sold Atlas shares with himself to create the illusion of an actively traded business, the SEC said in its August 2021 complaint against Tajyar. He also allegedly staged an earnings call with a friend posing as a Wall Street analyst asking questions about the business and allegedly paid a professional investment analyst to write research on the company, the SEC complaint said.

In its regulatory filings, Atlas listed Arc Capital as a creditor that had provided Atlas with loans of more than $80,000. But in a 2017 declaration by an SEC staff member, the agency said Tajyar and the principals at Arc Capital may have been “undisclosed control persons” for Atlas. The logo for Atlas appears in one of Arc’s promotional brochures on a list of its “public listing” clients.

Two of the former Arc employees said Arc had worked behind the scenes as an adviser of Atlas, providing marketing materials and financial models. One of the former employees said he worked on the deal but was taken off by his managers when he started asking questions about why its office address pointed to an L.A. parking garage and why he couldn’t meet with any of its executives in person.

This year, a judge permanently enjoined Tajyar from selling or promoting stocks as a result of his role in Atlas. Tajyar accepted the judgment without admitting or denying the allegations. He did not respond to requests seeking comment.

Arc was not named in the SEC’s complaint, and it’s unclear whether the SEC is still investigating the firm for its alleged role in the Atlas scheme.

Trump deal rides SPAC boom
The Trump deal is part of a recent boom in SPACs, which are seen as an easier way for some businesses to go public without the same expense and scrutiny of a traditional IPO.

In these deals, a SPAC, also known as a “blank check” firm, holds a public offering to raise money from institutional investors. When the SPAC’s management team identifies a private company to merge with, the SPAC’s investors are given the option of approving the deal and receiving equity in the newly public company — or taking their money back and walking away.

According to data published by New York law firm White & Case, 181 companies went public via a SPAC merger in the first nine months of 2021 — up from 93 in all of 2020 and 26 in 2019.

Trump’s new social media SPAC is soaring. Also, what is a SPAC?

Arc Capital and an affiliated firm, Arc Group, have attempted to capitalize on this investment wave, becoming an adviser to at least 15 blank check companies in recent years, according to a review of regulatory filings. On several SPAC deals, including Digital World Acquisition, Arc has served as the sponsor, which is usually the firm that puts up the initial capital to hire lawyers, brokers and a management team in exchange for getting a sizable portion of the company that ultimately goes public.

Not all of the deals work out. Yunhong International, a blank check company Arc once described as a “successful SPAC listing” in a promotional brochure on its website, said in a filing last month that it would dissolve and return money to investors because it failed to meet its deadline of finding a start-up to acquire within a set time period. This type of requirement is unique to SPAC deals and probably will cause many deals to dissolve in the coming years, financial industry experts said.

Yunhong and Digital World, the blank check firm planning to buy Trump Media, are both led by a CEO named Patrick Orlando, a former investment banker based in Miami. He did not respond to requests for comment.

Many of the same executives, hedge funds and bankers appear repeatedly on Arc’s SPAC deals. Earlier this year, one of the investors in Yunhong claimed in a lawsuit that Kingswood, an investment bank that has been the underwriter for several Arc SPAC deals, is partly owned by Cinta. The investor claimed this was an undisclosed conflict of interest, since Kingswood was supposed to be acting impartially when it brokered deals with outside investors.

Lawyers for Benchmark, the parent company of Kingswood, said in a court filing that the investor “failed to substantiate” the claim that Cinta was an owner of Kingswood. Representatives for Kingswood and the Yunhong investor did not respond to requests for comment.

In June, Kingswood changed its name EF Hutton, taking the moniker of a famed, century-old investment bank. In a news release, Kingwsood said it had secured the rights to the trademark and consulted with the grandson of one of EF Hutton’s original founders.

Kingswood or EF Hutton are listed as the underwriter on all 15 of the SPAC companies where Arc is listed as an adviser. EF Hutton is the “exclusive placement agent and capital markets adviser” to the Trump SPAC, filings show. Digital World said in a filing that EF Hutton would receive a $25 million commission for pitching the deal to investors.

The bank helped prepare the slide presentation Digital World and Trump Media submitted to regulators as part of its proposal. The slides indicate that Trump Media expects to generate billions of dollars in revenue by competing in a number of different industries — social media, streaming, podcasting — but it has not announced any fully-formed products or services. They also include the first name and last initial of 30 possible staffers, along with the logos of 33 of their employers. But they provide no further information, making it difficult to identify the people or their experience.

Last week, Trump Media also announced it would partner with Rumble, a YouTube rival popular with conservatives, to deliver streaming content to its yet-to-launch social media platform.

Rep. Devin Nunes to leave Congress to become Trump media company CEO

It’s not uncommon for SPAC merger candidates to make bold promises light on details; they are often young companies with little or no revenue. Companies going public through a SPAC have more latitude to paint a rosy picture of their prospects compared with traditional IPO companies, which must have all of their financial statements and projections vetted by auditors and reviewed by regulators, securities lawyers said.

Still, the lack of specifics in the Trump slide presentation was “hilarious, even compared with other SPACs,” said Michael Ohlrogge, an assistant law professor at New York University who has researched SPAC transactions.

“So far, it’s vaporware,” said James Angel, a professor of finance at Georgetown University. The true test will come after the merger, when shareholders will expect Trump to use the money he has raised to build a formidable business, he said.

“Now that our ex-president has a billion-dollar war chest to play with,” Angel said, “it remains to be seen if he can actually build a successful media franchise.”


This is dry reporting. I prefer my to the point POV.


24 Dec 21 - 03:23 PM (#4129891)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I would say "I rest my case." but why pile on a pylon?


25 Dec 21 - 06:48 PM (#4129982)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

KAOS secret agent robomatic was the frequent nemisis to Max and agent 99 on Get Smart.


26 Dec 21 - 08:38 AM (#4130017)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Trump reminds many of Valdemort but robo's beloved gang leader reminds me of an immature Draco Malthoy. I don't expect either pays for wapo so be thankful for entry without a paywall.

When Trump saw the Producers written and directed by Mel Brooks and learned a flop can earn more money than a hit, his future was made.


26 Dec 21 - 01:14 PM (#4130038)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Don'l: Zees ees KAOS! Vee Don't do nozzing but eastern block pawaphwaziss here!!

Robo - who dated 99 before she settled down with 86.


27 Dec 21 - 05:56 PM (#4130154)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Barbara Feldman is very talented and beautiful.
Each of us have a different camera; mine has a wide angle lense, robo's camera is variable focus and Steve has a swallowable camera that traces the journey of all that he cooks and eats as well as a phone camera that only takes UK political pictures.

Dr. OZ weight Loss Pill snake oil salesman is running for Pennsylvania's Senator. He is a New Jersey Trump supporter.


31 Dec 21 - 12:19 AM (#4130510)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Jan-6-panel-urges-supreme-court-to-deny-trump-bid-to-shield-records


31 Dec 21 - 12:20 AM (#4130511)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

Back to 86: "If only he had used his reflections for good!"


31 Dec 21 - 02:28 PM (#4130611)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

I'm pretty sure Trump is positioning himself for a Presidential run. (Thank you, Mitch Macconnell for making that possible). And by positioning I mean posturing.

He has come out as strongly favoring the vaccine. And emphasizing his vital part in Operation Warp Drive (He was breathing at the same time as world medical infrastructure was developing the vaccines).

This drew a rise out of Alex Jones. I will not go further with Jones as he is a danger to OPM (Other Peoples' Minds). But he declared that Trump might actually be 'evil'.

I am thinking of working on a Venn Diagram of Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Donald Trmp scanned over the qualities 'CRAZY' 'EVIL' 'POLITICAL' but that is better left to others. I was in a conversation with a definitely rational friend who tends to be more conservative than me and who classified Trmp as EVIL which even I am hesitant to do. I don't find BS and greed to be evil in themselves. Maybe I need to rethink that.


31 Dec 21 - 04:33 PM (#4130624)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

The quote is "Magic mirror on the wall..."

The story goes that the wicked witch's gardener overheard her appealing to the mirror. After she'd left the room he sneaked in and intoned:

"Mirror mirror on the door
Make my penis touch the floor..."


It worked: his legs dropped off...


31 Dec 21 - 06:23 PM (#4130637)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic

"Here endeth the lesson...."


01 Jan 22 - 03:17 PM (#4130694)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

We keep hearing about this new Trump media company that (in one version) is going to try to clobber all of the traditional media outlets (television and print magazines with a web presence). He still can't broadcast or publish in most of those places, and he wants to supplant the traditional news sources with his own. How he plans to carry off this fantastical plan is anyone's guess. I just went looking for any projections of the launch date (to hear some folks talk it is already working, but not that I'm aware of) but find it has been missed:

Trump SPAC social media company appears to miss its first product deadline was published exactly one month ago by CNBC.

Wikipedia entries are edited by interested parties so I imagine this contains some of the party line, so to speak. They say the company launched in February 2021, but it's still only on paper as far as I can tell. News back in early December was that Devon Nunes would resign from the House of Representatives as of today to lead the group, but I don't see news of that happening yet. A good place to start reading about this is at the Washington Post, they've been all over the story with news and opinion pieces.


02 Jan 22 - 12:11 PM (#4130756)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congressperson from Georgia who has no committees because she was stripped of them after past misbehavior, has finally lost her personal Twitter account. NPR story.

On Saturday, Greene tweeted a screed about the public health measures imposed during the pandemic, criticizing many of the efforts health officials say were critical in preventing more deaths from the virus and slowing its spread in the U.S.

The Georgia Republican's official government Twitter account is still active, the company confirmed.

Greene, in a statement following her Twitter suspension, said Twitter was an "enemy to America and can't handle the truth."

"That's fine, I'll show America we don't need them and it's time to defeat our enemies," she said.

Her pronouns are problematic in that last statement. It sounds like she is saying that she doesn't need America. That sounds about right for this woman.


02 Jan 22 - 12:12 PM (#4130757)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and who it Effects
From: Donuel

It is obvious who is unaware of the peril this country is in. They are MIA. Regarding a dictator taking over the US it is very possible with the support of the entire Republican party.
But not so fast... It is more probable for racist reasons than for nazi ideology.

While the reps and dems are still playing political wind testing, actual response to voting restrictions could have been done already. Naturally the catter bigot willing to file a false police report for personal political reasons wants secrecy unlike everyday trolls like the OCD man.


04 Jan 22 - 11:47 AM (#4130969)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The undecided voter is extinct. They are replaced by the secret bigot.
Once Trup can control elections and arrest any opponent at will like Putin, it could take a generation for the Republic to re-emerge if ever.


04 Jan 22 - 12:02 PM (#4130973)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Greene got her ass kicked off of Facebook also. But this is window dressing, compared to the groups that need to be eliminated from the site. FB knows who they are, but their eyeballs bring in dollars.


05 Jan 22 - 08:26 AM (#4131096)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Minority rule by technicality is what Republican think tanks are good at. Perhaps they are studying a take over of our nuclear missiles, Courts, Governors and armed forces by 'technicality'.
Wait a minute, they already tried that on Jan. 6


05 Jan 22 - 12:17 PM (#4131131)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog

The following programme was just broadcast on BBC Radio 4.

The Media Show


"Did the storming of the Capitol damage US media?

A year on from the storming of the US Capitol and the media is still coming to terms with what happened. Some US news outlets have been accused of "obsessing over" the scenes on 6 January 2021. Others have condemned parts of the media for "normalising" the violence. So how can these divisions be healed? And in the week that several political figures were banned from Twitter, what role do the tech giants now play in our democracy?

Guests: David Folkenflik, Media Correspondent at NPR; Robert Costa, Political Reporter at the Washington Post and co-author of Peril; Susan Ferrechio, Chief Congressional Correspondent at the Washington Examiner; Chris Stokel-Walker, tech journalist; Zing Tsjeng, Editor-in-Chief at Vice UK."

The tech giants certainly do have a very powerful role with their ability to ban elected officials from their platforms and their control of how media outlets are able to use the tech platforms to spread their news and views.


06 Jan 22 - 04:03 PM (#4131293)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

There is a thin line, no, a knife's edge between fearing the violence to the point of preparing to do counter violence and ignoring accountability of insurrectionists. Jefferson said he would prefer a country with journalists and no government over a government with no press.
Media has suffered along with the entire country.


06 Jan 22 - 06:48 PM (#4131311)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You yanks are sleepwalking into impending disaster. You've nailed nothing on Trump, and his following is uneroded. Biden is an old man. He sounds and looks like an old man. He'd be 86 by the end of a second term. Bloody wake up, yanks. The world depends on you not re-electing Trump. From this end, you look paralysed and your politics looks infantile. Prove us wrong.


06 Jan 22 - 10:36 PM (#4131331)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Stuff it for a while, Shaw. You're not proving anything and you're clearly not reading the in-depth stories about this process. You can worry about Boris.

This is a bottom-up operation, the low-level folks are rolling on each other and on the planners. Every t must be crossed and i must be dotted to get this prosecution to go forward.


07 Jan 22 - 07:13 AM (#4131354)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The New Yorker has run its article today "Are we headed for a Civil War"

I have warned all for over 15 years right here that civil war is possible along with bio war and other fates. Shaw does say I am obcessed with Trump and I'm barking at the moon
I say he is the one obcessed with self.
The New Yorker is a little late in my book.


07 Jan 22 - 07:37 AM (#4131362)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I am not the somnambulist. Given the choice of being ruled by the Violence Party or the Peace Party I still have faith the American people will wake up and realize the con. During the W Bush administration people woke up when Wall St was allowed to take their homes. Racism was the issue many celebrated in Trump. They may wake up again. The LIE is what people want to hear. The awful Truth is a bitter Pill to swallow.
Republicans now deny the insuurection ever happemed - it was the FBI or Antifascists. They know silently that if they don't hang together they could hang seperately, as Ben Franklin said.

The solution to a bad leader is a good leader.
Lincoln did not deny Gettysburg happened.


07 Jan 22 - 08:15 AM (#4131368)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Speaking of egregious you feel superior to Americans in the same way some whites here feel toward blacks imo.


07 Jan 22 - 09:02 AM (#4131377)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

I'll try this bit again, on its own. It's the editorial from Wednesday's Guardian and it represents one view of aspects of US politics from this side of the ocean.

The threat to American democracy may be greater today than when the insurrectionist mob swept into the US Capitol one year ago, attempting to prevent the peaceful transfer of power following a free and fair election. Joe Biden is ensconced in the White House and with the passage of time, the shock of their lethal assault has faded. But if the danger appears less immediate, addressing it is no less urgent.

We know more than we did a year ago about the full violence and menace of the riot, and about what preceded it – including the PowerPoint presentation turned over by Donald Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows, detailing ways to stage a coup. Rioters have been jailed, but so far no case has been brought against those who encouraged and incited them. Mr Trump himself has resurged, with a cult-like grip upon his party. He and his allies have longer to plan for this year’s midterms and 2024. State legislatures are constructing an election-stealing machine. In short: 6 January was not an end, but a beginning.

Listen to the warnings from America’s political scientists. One says that the US is “closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe”. Another warns that the insurrectionists of 6 January are not part of a fringe: he sees a new mass political movement with violence at its core. Others foresee a slide to Hungarian-style competitive authoritarianism in which the trappings of elections remain, but so rigged that Democrats cannot win.

Faced with an electorate that has rejected them, the Republicans have already entrenched their advantage in the electoral college, Senate and supreme court. Yet it is Republicans who claim that the system is cheating them. A vast swathe of the population is now detached from both political reality and political ideals – believing the 2020 election stolen, and believing that force is an acceptable response. “Alternative facts” have become mainstream belief: according to a recent poll, 68% of Americans think there is no evidence of widespread electoral fraud in 2020 – but 62% of Republicans disagree. While 60% of Americans think Mr Trump bears either a “great deal” or a “good amount” of responsibility for the storming of the Capitol, 72% of Republicans say he bears “just some” or “none at all”. Another survey found that 9% of Americans believed that “use of force is justified to restore Donald J Trump to the presidency”.

It is hard to know where one might begin to tackle the sprawling rightwing disinformation ecosystem. The aspiration to a policy response to the political chasm – the Build Back Better Act – has been killed by Republican opposition, with the aid of conservative Democrat Joe Manchin. He and fellow Democratic senator Kyrsten Sinema will also tank the fresh push on voting rights if they remain opposed to amending the filibuster.

Meanwhile, Republicans who attempted to rein Mr Trump in on 6 January, or publicly criticised him afterwards, have long since fallen back into line. In 12 short months they have rewritten history. Their hostility to the select committee investigation, rushing to report before November’s midterms lest it be closed down afterwards, is another attempt to silence the truth. Last year’s tidal wave of voting restrictions at state level continues, and election sabotage is gaining ground, with Republicans giving legislatures control over vote counts and replacing nonpartisan officials with Trumpists. Against these are ranged the steady, committed efforts of activists, politicians and ordinary voters to defend their rights and protect their democratic institutions.

More political violence is likely in future, not least because the GOP elite have helped to legitimise it. Senior Republicans have not merely made their peace with Mr Trump and his tactics, but embraced them. Next time, such efforts might gain support from within the services. Yet the deeper threat may be that force will not be required. The dismantling of American democracy could be bloodless: quieter, more sophisticated, more cynical – and nonetheless devastating for it.


07 Jan 22 - 10:51 AM (#4131389)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Similar to today half the country thought making war on Fort Sumpter was a great idea and the majority half thought it was horrific.
A bloodless coup of making all vote counting a republican process is at odds with your average Joe Bully making death threats and rioting at school boards and State Capitols. During the Obama years many new facist militias and Klans were formed. Their favorite members are Tim McViegh like military veterans. Releasing the mob is like releasing the Kraken, it will go out of control. It will be defeated at the cost of more violence than first anticipated. That is, if the future rhymes with history.


07 Jan 22 - 12:20 PM (#4131413)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

I don't know why but the military branch of choice for extremists has been the airforce. Better than army demolition experts I guess.


07 Jan 22 - 09:31 PM (#4131475)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri

Look at this thread.
Count the posts by Donuel, and by Steve, and notice how many are off-topic.

Donuel provokes you, Steve, and you never fail to react. One wonders what would happen if this cycle were broken

Of course, I don't think the thread has much purpose other than sniping.


08 Jan 22 - 07:12 AM (#4131502)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Anyway, back to the fray. Increasing numbers of Republican politicians are buying into the stolen-election lie. Republican states are rewriting voting laws in order to make it difficult for minorities and the poor to vote. Biden's approval rating is rock-bottom, lower than any president at this stage bar Trump. He talks and looks like an old man, and there's no obvious Democrat successor in sight. He was badly damaged by the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan (even though it was largely not his fault). So far, no step has been successfully taken which would disqualify Trump from standing in 2024, and, if he's still around then, I can't see any alternative Republican standing, unless we want to rely on Ms Cheney. Wow.   The midterms are coming later this year, and, bar a miraculous turnaround, they will leave Biden a lame-duck president. A lame duck that might well have to take on Trump next time around

That's how it looks from over here. Call me Mr Simplistic and tell me that I don't "get" US politics (but don't tell me to keep my nose out, not because I'm clamouring for my free speech but because what happens in 2024 is going to affect the UK and the rest of the planet as much as it affects the US). We have a massive problem in this country also. Trump back in power will also empower the illiberal right-wing here. Between them, Trump and Johnson are more than capable of unravelling western democracy, starting in 2024. That's everybody's business.

A good read on the Trump threat is in the Guardian: The Trump menace is darker than ever - and he's snapping at Biden's heels by Jonathan Freedland.


08 Jan 22 - 08:39 AM (#4131513)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The high court looks like they will now be eliminating the 50 year old OSHHA law that protects the public and will deny Biden's health mandate.


09 Jan 22 - 05:58 AM (#4131651)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

It is like saying "yes Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney & daughter are correct" BUT Steve is right, a fascist undemocratic USA is a threat to allies. Steve is not the only one late to the party, there are perhaps 70 million Americans who know not who Trump is.

For me this calamity started twelve to twenty years ago and others would say since 1865.


09 Jan 22 - 11:58 AM (#4131695)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

Another view from this side of the water from The Observer (the Sunday version of The Guardian) entitled The Observer view on Joe Biden’s Capitol Hill anniversary speech

The piece praises Biden for finally taking off the gloves but it calls for every sinew to be stretched to nail Trump legally in order to stop him from standing in 2024. It's a lengthy read, but it ends:

“The legal path to investigate the leaders of the coup attempt is clear. The criminal code prohibits inciting an insurrection or ‘giving aid or comfort’ to those who do, as well as conspiracy to forcibly ‘prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law’,” veteran Harvard constitutional law expert Laurence Tribe wrote recently. It’s a widely held opinion.

The many documented actions of Trump and his circle in attempting to overturn the 2020 vote provide numerous grounds for criminal investigation and prosecution. Why is Merrick Garland, the attorney general, still dragging his feet? Biden can righteously rage. But the best antidote to toxic Trump’s dangerously lawless spree, and fears of civil war, is the law itself. Take him down – before it’s too late.


09 Jan 22 - 03:02 PM (#4131717)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

If not a treaty how about an Armistice?- or is silence consent.

answer to Observer.
If removal from ever holding office again can be done without proving a crime punishable by incarceration it would be preferable and avoid any martyrdom.


09 Jan 22 - 04:26 PM (#4131724)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion

I read the American news every day with a sinking heart; Canada is a lot closer to the USA than any other nation except Mexico, which already suffers severely from the proximity.

I can't be the only up-to-now fairly good person who heartily wishes that Mr Trump would just wake up dead one day soon. There's never a major cardiovascular accident around when you need one.


09 Jan 22 - 04:37 PM (#4131727)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw

You're not alone. It's been a year, and those who oppose Trumpism don't seem to have got very far. Yet he has.


10 Jan 22 - 06:06 AM (#4131775)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The thin majority of Republican voters 55% would prefer a candidate other than Trump. There is no shortage of Trump wannabes.
Betting on a natural death without conspiracy theory is less likely than an inside straight.


10 Jan 22 - 08:35 AM (#4131791)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The United States has only approached a democracy since 1965. Women could vote but people who were not white faced barriers to voting by Jim Crow laws. The Conservative party was founded on the premise of keeping the vote white. William F Buckly proposed that the Consevative party was not biased enough against minority voting.
While fascism is not conservatism it is important to know the reasons for American authoritarianism.
LBJ brought voting rights to law against steep odds. Its an amazing story. He could not have done it without a JFK. TRUMP COULD NOT BE PRESIDENT WITHOUT AN Obama.


10 Jan 22 - 02:35 PM (#4131836)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Charmion, many of us have that thought daily, while not saying it out loud or committing pen to paper. It's a not wanting to be jinxed thing, one of those sedition thoughts one keeps in mind only, in case someone in the future decides to act. Senator Joseph McCarthy's ghost is among us still.

Here is a piece of nonsense that, since it isn't a COVID cure, does belong in the Trump bullshit camp. This kind of fighting against common sense comes straight from that horse's ass's mouth. (The Daily Beast is no longer considered a reputable news source, but it's the kind of place that this guy will talk to.)

Anti-COVID-19 “Vaccine Police” leader Christopher Key has a new quarter-baked conspiracy theory for his anti-vax followers to use to cure themselves of COVID-19: Drink their own urine. “The antidote that we have seen now, and we have tons and tons of research, is urine therapy. OK, and I know to a lot of you this sounds crazy, but guys, God’s given us everything we need,” Key said in a video posted over the weekend on his Telegram account after being released from jail over a trespassing charge. “This has been around for centuries,” he added. “When I tell you this, please take it with a grain of salt,” the anti-vaccine advocate warned while saying people might now think he is “cray cray.” “Now drink urine!” he continued. “This vaccine is the worst bioweapon I have ever seen,” he concluded. “I drink my own urine!” Reached for comment by The Daily Beast on Sunday night, Key doubled down on what he calls “urine therapy” and railed against “foolish” people who took the COVID-19 vaccine, which is safe and effective.


10 Jan 22 - 03:31 PM (#4131839)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

My favorite nonsensical cure for not dying of Covid is blindfolded driving.


10 Jan 22 - 09:19 PM (#4131888)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Arizona, Michigan and Wisconson all sent forged documents to Congress and archives saying Trump won in 2020. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/gop-official-dodges-questions-after-she-is-accused-of-sending-forged-certificate-claiming-trump-won-b1990348.html

The story is breaking at Politico and is not at this time on the web.



Link fixed. Be careful to grab the entire long URL when posting these links. I've fixed broken links lately from several Mudcatters. ---mudelf


10 Jan 22 - 09:42 PM (#4131890)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Republicans that signed, certified and notarized the exact forgeries can not be held accountable for the crime because they were politicians that can't be sued for their actions.
Wisconsin is the only state that is still weighing prosecution.


11 Jan 22 - 10:12 AM (#4131935)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

No wonder Donnie can't believe he lost. He got ~ 40 Republicans to forge electoral college results. There was election fraud by golly.


https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-2020-trump-backers-forged-election-docs-three-states-n1287287


12 Jan 22 - 12:00 PM (#4132106)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Surprising it took a full year for this to come around, but maybe Melania's allowance has been reduced lately. Selling Melania Trump, One NFT at a Time
A year after leaving the White House, the former first lady tests the water for her brand.

Non-fungible tokens sound perfect for the Trump family to start selling. What do you want to bet they're harder to trace or tax? From Wikipedia: NFTs have drawn criticism with respect to the energy cost and carbon footprint associated with validating blockchain transactions as well as their frequent use in art scams. Further criticisms challenge the usefulness of establishing proof of ownership in an often extralegal unregulated market.


12 Jan 22 - 12:08 PM (#4132108)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor

It's the grift that keeps on grifting.


12 Jan 22 - 12:11 PM (#4132109)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The Times offered a number of related articles adjacent to the one above. Like A Farewell to the Trump Aesthetic
Four years of hard-core branding, soap opera chic and designer trolling are coming to an end. What have we learned? A look back in gilt.

Clever - gilt, not guilt. :)

"The political costume department of our collective imagination will never be the same."

His willingness to make himself into an orange-tinted, vanilla-custard-combover meme invited mockery — until some realized that, silly as the president’s appearance may have seemed, it was also, in its singularity and consistency, unforgettable. As Doug Mills, a photographer for The New York Times who has covered every president since Reagan, said, the result was “iconic.”

Adding to the effect was Mrs. Trump, his ornamental equal, able to manipulate public perception strategically on her own. And cast in the supporting roles were, first and foremost, Ivanka and Jared, the effective prom king and queen, skin and hair and teeth polished to an impenetrable sheen. Arrayed beside them, like a Foxified Greek chorus, Tiffany Trump, Lara Trump, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks and Kayleigh McEnany. Plus Don Jr. and Eric.


12 Jan 22 - 12:48 PM (#4132111)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Ad:
Voters all agree rule by violence is more thrilling than Democracy.
So... Trump wins in advance, or else.

this message is approved by wealthy racist power brokers who have the most $ to lose and can afford a civil war. Not the disenfranchised red neck racists who only have their lives to lose.


12 Jan 22 - 05:39 PM (#4132155)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The plastic surgury modified Ivanka doll comes in many versions; airplane unmasked, insurgent, prom queen, jewelry mogul, incest trophy, unvaxxed super hero and pseudo cabinate member.
Collect them all- accessories are seperate.


12 Jan 22 - 06:34 PM (#4132165)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

If I were Biden I would not kill or carve up the Filibuster.
I would RESTORE it to its original form.


13 Jan 22 - 02:42 PM (#4132275)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The Trump Supream court ruled big business may not mandate vaccine for its workers under OSHA saftey law.

Mandates under HHS for health care workers was ruled they must be vaccinated.


13 Jan 22 - 04:58 PM (#4132292)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

Right before Biden was going to ask Congress for voting rights, Senator Sinema gave her Meatloaf speech. "I would do anything for voting rights but I won't do that".
She won't change the super majority rule so Democrats don't have the votes. Its not looking good for democrats.


14 Jan 22 - 04:16 PM (#4132320)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Sinema had better get used to the idea of being a one-term senator.


14 Jan 22 - 06:37 PM (#4132337)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The 'tear' and crying voice in Sinema's speach doesn't fool anyone.


17 Jan 22 - 09:25 AM (#4132666)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

the new GOP Virginia Govenor and Trump wannabe at the peak of this pandemic wave, school staffing problems and a rise in child infections made an EXECUTIVE ORDER to remove all mandates for masks in schools.

Timing is everything.


17 Jan 22 - 11:22 PM (#4132737)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

The Trump Org Stiffed a Hotel. His Kids May Pay the Price
That dodged payment is now the crux of the attorney general for the District of Columbia’s latest effort to put the Trump Organization back in its crosshairs in an ongoing investigation into how the Trump kids used the Presidential Inauguration Committee to throw lavish parties of their own.

“It was their friends. It should never have been sent to the PIC. That’s misuse of funding. The Trump Organization being involved in any way and getting the PIC to pay any sort of balance anywhere on their behalf? It just doesn’t seem legitimate,” said Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who coordinated inaugural events and is now the government’s lead witness in this case.

Winston Wolkoff is no friend of the Trumps—any more. Although she was close to the family for more than a decade and eventually became “Trusted Adviser” to First Lady Melania Trump, there was a fallout after Winston Wolkoff felt that the Trump White House made her the scapegoat for inauguration misspending. The New York Times identified a company associated with her, WIS Media Partners, as the recipient of a whopping $26 million, and Winston Wolkoff later overcame Justice Department resistance to publication of her tell-all book called Melania and Me.

That book catalogs the events around the Inaugural committee work, and will in the end serve to clobber the Trump children, if not Trump himself.


18 Jan 22 - 08:20 AM (#4132772)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The coming elections are based on a fallacy that boomers and folks in their 50's will have an impact over 30%. They won't.
Last time the youngest voters we're at 40% of thr total.
Generation Z has not known an America without school shootings, losing their parent's homes in the financial scam, 9-11, pandemic, Middle East wars, Trump and the George Floyd BLM.

The greatest fears of boomers were Viet Nam and nuclear war. Nukes were always a distant invisible fear. The fear of the younger generation is more intense than anything boomers faced. If the young vote turned out at 70% they would win all elections despite the crazies.
Why? It is constant real world fear and not an imaginary takeover by black voters.

The preditions of more attempts of a coup are real but so is the importance of a younger voter being more in charge than we have seen before. Its not about the older voter ANYMORE.


18 Jan 22 - 11:36 PM (#4132863)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Giuliani (and his fellow attorneys who were involved in the bogus cases to throw out the vote counts) got his ass subpoenaed by the January 6 committee.


19 Jan 22 - 07:44 AM (#4132888)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The republicans have lost their memory. They are not killed for their ivory. They no longer are represented by their mascot the Elephant.

My submission for their new mascot is MEPHITES. The
scientific name for the AMERICAN skunk species is Mephitis mephitis The Latin word mephitis means poisonous smell. This animal is sometimes called a polecat. It is a burrowing animal that can undermine all kinds of structures.

The Democrats are still reoresented well by the whining whinging Jack ass.


19 Jan 22 - 01:14 PM (#4132937)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage

Asserting their fifth amendment rights to not incriminate themselves.

Eric Trump and Allen Weisselberg invoked their 5th Amendment rights more than 500 times in Trump Organization probe, court filing says
Eric Trump appeared for a deposition in October 2020. Tuesday's court filing said he "invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in response to more than 500 questions over six hours."

Weisselberg sat for a deposition in September 2020.

"At testimony held on September 24, 2020, after answering a number of preliminary questions, Allen Weisselberg invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination to more than 500 questions over five-and-a-half hours," the filing said.


19 Jan 22 - 03:55 PM (#4132953)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

readers want to know how many months it took Eric to be coached to take the 5th


19 Jan 22 - 07:46 PM (#4132985)
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel

The last Hail Mary obstruction pass by donald trump has been struck down by the Supream Court. All his White House (insurrection) records are to be given to Congress. Bad News for liars who can now be prosecuted for pergury among other crimes and conspiracy.