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14 Dec 20 - 11:33 AM (#4083395) Subject: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow I've just been able to book my Covid 19 vaccination - first jab on Friday, second on January 8th, which means come January 15th I should be a free man, after nearly a year of lockdown. It's a great feeling. Good luck to everyone else still getting ready for my Liberation Day. The people I pity are the anti-vaxers who won't get to share in that experience. Especially those of them who are destined to get Covid, and even die of it - likely enough to do so still protesting on principle that the whole Covid 19 thing is all a hoax. |
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14 Dec 20 - 11:44 AM (#4083398) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Rapparee I'm awaiting the word. |
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15 Dec 20 - 08:05 AM (#4083547) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow I meant of course "their Liberation Day". |
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15 Dec 20 - 08:59 AM (#4083563) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mrrzy I am pretty sure vaxed folks still need, like everybody else, to keep masks, social distancing, limiting in-person interactions, and handwashing in their daily lives. I just read an article about Fauci saying that: Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, warned that Americans should not think the arrival of a vaccine means the end of the pandemic. "I don't believe we're going to be able to throw the masks away and forget about physical separation in congregate settings for a while, probably likely until we get into the late fall and early next winter," he said during a Center for Strategic and International Studies virtual health event. "But I think we can do it." From here. |
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15 Dec 20 - 09:17 AM (#4083567) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Jos From what I heard recently (Radio 4, but I can't remember which programme) the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop people catching the virus - it just stops them becoming very ill or dying if they do catch it. The scientists don't yet know whether people who catch the disease after being vaccinated can or cannot pass the virus to others. So you will still need the masks and social distancing, just in case. |
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15 Dec 20 - 09:19 AM (#4083568) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Stilly River Sage Yes to all Mrrzy just said. The vaccine affects how sick the recipient might get if exposed but the research at this point shows nothing about catching it without symptoms or spreading it unknowingly. Wear the mask and still keep your distance. The vaccine will mean for most people that if they catch it they won't have the horrible symptoms but right now it DOESN'T mean you won't catch it. But otherwise good news, Kevin! |
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15 Dec 20 - 10:01 AM (#4083570) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow Of course it's true that having the vaccine doesn't mean you can stop wearing masks or keeping your distance from other people.At least not until or unless it turns out that the vaccine stops you being a possible spreader, which might turn out to be the case. But those are minor limitations on freedom. The big thing is that before too long I can go round where I want without chancing my life. No more house arrest. It'll be a good few months before enough people will have had the jabs to give us herd immunity, and we can relax. And the main threat to that would be if too many people get infected by the anti-vax virus. I'm afraid there's no vaccine against that. |
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15 Dec 20 - 10:18 AM (#4083573) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker The annoying probability is that too many of the anti vax/mask covidiots will not be the folks doing the dying...??? |
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15 Dec 20 - 12:33 PM (#4083590) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Helen I think I read that some of the vaccines prevent infection but others limit the severity of the symptoms and associated health consequences so someone could still be infectious but not get really ill. In other words, vaccines don't provide a cloak of invulnerability, especially as the vaccines have been given emergency approval without finishing the full testing phases. The general public will be the guinea pigs. It's still time to celebrate, but without hugging and kissing each other, not just yet anyway. We won't get the vaccine here in Oz until all the approvals are through because we are not in dire need of emergency approval. So it's a great big "Yay!" from me here in Oz for USA and UK people. Keep safe and well. |
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15 Dec 20 - 03:50 PM (#4083614) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mrrzy Sorry to rain on the liberation parade... |
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15 Dec 20 - 03:50 PM (#4083615) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie And I will not be getting the vaccine. Not because I would not but because I am one of those cautioned against it. Not only am I sensitive to a myriad of narcotics but I experienced anaphylactic shock severe enough that the doctor hired someone to stay with me the rest of the day for fear I would go into a coma. So, no. I won't be taking it. I don't mind being jabbed, I don't mind someone drawing something OUT of my body but I am extremely careful about what is put IN. I have never forgotten the pain of shock- it was like every cell of my body had risen and was attacking all the others. And then oblivion for 2 1/2 hours. |
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15 Dec 20 - 03:58 PM (#4083619) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: The Sandman Ebbie, i am sorry to hear that may i wish you a safe and healthy new year, |
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15 Dec 20 - 04:39 PM (#4083623) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie Thanks, Sandman! I will try to do my part. |
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15 Dec 20 - 05:57 PM (#4083637) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mr Red in my naive view, the vaccine will boost the body's ability to attack the virus. Thus the viral load carried by the vaccinated person is less at any given time. So in the event they are carrying and pass on a small amount of the virus, the next person's immune system will not have to work as hard, or can respond within its limits and that person's viral load is less. And the next person ........... And the next person ............. And you have an R number. And a death rate that falls. Masks still help. |
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15 Dec 20 - 06:04 PM (#4083640) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Bill D Ebbie... sometime next year, enough people may be vaccinated that you will be much safer. I sure hope that's how it works. |
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15 Dec 20 - 06:08 PM (#4083643) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker I've not yet read any vaccine advice for folks with lesser threatening over-active immune system conditions, such as asthma, alopecia, and eczema, etc...??? |
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16 Dec 20 - 01:41 AM (#4083675) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie Thanks, Bill D. In the meantime I have been self-isolating since mid-March. I am discovering that it is doable. Although I really do miss friends and making music. |
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16 Dec 20 - 03:08 AM (#4083677) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: The Sandman if you have asthma, and eczema, cutting out dairy products helps particularly cows milk. a frrend of mine had psoriasis and going on to a vegan diet cleared it |
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16 Dec 20 - 03:38 AM (#4083679) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Sandra in Sydney anti-vaccine cartoon 15 dec 2020 |
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16 Dec 20 - 07:15 AM (#4083703) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw There are no narcotics or other drugs in vaccines. Ask your doc if they think you're safe to have the jab. Too many people have had "risks" bigged up out of all proportion by people around them, some well-intentioned, some scaremongering. Not saying you, Ebbie, but if it's really not safe for you to have the jab then you are in a tiny minority. Vaccines generally combat pathogenic organisms, pfr. As far as I know, that doesn't apply to the three conditions you mention. And wear the mask and keep to two metres. But beware of non-settled science being mischaracterised as unqualified certainties, for example "masks still help." |
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16 Dec 20 - 08:36 AM (#4083715) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Dave the Gnome I have already let it be known far and wide that if any of my contacts are anti-vaccine, I'll have theirs :-) Mind you, being over 65, it should not be too long before I get it anyway. |
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16 Dec 20 - 08:55 AM (#4083720) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Jos "... Ask your doc if they think you're safe to have the jab." Sadly, ones 'doc' is not always a reliable source. A while ago, mine assured me that I would not get addicted to codeine. He was wrong. (I returned the remaining pills to the chemist's and then spent as much time as possible in bed until the withdrawal was done with.) |
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16 Dec 20 - 09:10 AM (#4083721) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw I had the same with Tramadol as it happens, Jos. Without realising it, I became physically dependent on it in less than three weeks. I didn't realise it until I skipped a couple of doses during a day out. The cold turkey phase was the worst three days of my life. I was so animated about it that I went back to the doc to give him a bollocking. But codeine and tramadol are narcotics that can make you dependent. Vaccines are neither narcotic nor do they cause dependency. If you've had adverse reactions to vaccines in the past, beyond the regulation sore arm or feeling off-colour for a short while, it's as likely as not that you were allergic to a non-active ingredient. The doctor should be able to advise you as to whether that could happen again. Overall, it pays to be careful who you listen to. The area round here is replete with scaremongers and downright cranks. |
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16 Dec 20 - 09:58 AM (#4083729) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker Steve - since the reported 2 cases of bad vaccine reactions from health workers with pre-existing immune system conditions, anyone with minor genetic immunity problems will be concerned.. I haven't seen any official health advice explicitly reassuring folks with asthma, etc, that it is still safe for them to take this new vaccine. As these folks number in the millions, tory govt is yet again failing to get on top of obvious problems...??? Considering the billions of £££s already wasted on half baked pandemic strategies, and contradictory public advice, a few extra thousands on posters printed for GP surgeries and pharmacies, addressing these real anxieties, might at least be slightly more effective.. If this is already being done, then good.. fair enough... Tackling the half wits convinced the vaccine contains tracking chips, well, that's a bit tougher to deal with...... |
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16 Dec 20 - 11:11 AM (#4083741) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Stilly River Sage I have been hearing about people keeping an epi-pen handy at the vaccine station if they have severe allergies, and in some allergic instances, that group is cautioned against getting the vaccine (for now at least). Time will reveal the spectrum of allergic reactions in those who know of no allergies, and medical researchers will evaluate from there. |
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16 Dec 20 - 11:37 AM (#4083749) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw The half-baked pandemic strategies and contradictory public advice comes from politicians. Vaccines come from brilliant scientific endeavour. Your worries are being addressed as we speak; the trials we've heard about are by no means the last word on the vaccines. An injected vaccine is foreign material introduced into the body. It's the immune system's job to react accordingly. In a small minority of cases the reaction is inappropriately large. You can react to gluten, to E102, to lactose, to rosewood dust, to dust mite poo. Or not. It's all about risk, which if you're worried, needs to be calculated. Nothing like as risky as catching coronavirus. The vaccines approved so far have tested safe. We live in a neurotic world in which tiny risks are bigged up into panic-station scares. Let's not do that. Vaccines are safe for nearly everybody, and I don't think it's especially appropriate to air our perfectly legitimate personal worries to the whole world (or even just Mudcat). We need as many people to be vaccinated as is humanly possible, right? |
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16 Dec 20 - 11:47 AM (#4083752) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mrrzy Depends on what your goal is. Ebbie, I agree with you, you should not take the vaccine that they are warning people with severe allergies not to take. Other vaccines may not cause that reaction, though. Wait for data. That is what I am doing. Waiting for data. |
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16 Dec 20 - 11:47 AM (#4083753) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker Steve - who me.. I'm not worried.. I'm.. errrmmm.. asking on behalf of a friend.... Here's a simple solution, basically countering negatve lies with positive lies.. Tell the idot anti vaxxers who believe the vaccine contains mind control tracking chips, that 80% of men in the trials reported at least one to two inches of unexpected penis growth... |
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16 Dec 20 - 12:39 PM (#4083760) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw It's this new third testicle that's worrying me a bit, though.... |
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16 Dec 20 - 12:41 PM (#4083763) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker Always handy to carry a spare in the trunk[s]... |
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16 Dec 20 - 01:24 PM (#4083775) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw I got done by the RSPCA for inhumanely overcrowding the budgies... |
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16 Dec 20 - 02:48 PM (#4083787) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mr Red If there are any side effects they may come from a reaction to the adjuvants. Hence the need for a range of vaccines, to cover as much ground as possible. Those that rubbish the statement "masks still help" are rubbishing Dr Anthony Fauci and risk being tarred with the Orange Brush! |
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16 Dec 20 - 04:31 PM (#4083801) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie Steve Shaw, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you in general. However, my system tends to over-react to many, many pain killers and other therapeutics. Twice my stay in-hospital was extended to two more days because they couldn't find something my body would tolerate, with reactions varying from anaphylactic shock to vomiting to rashes and hives to passing out to whatever. Last time they discovered that I can't take oxycontin either- that was a disappointment! |
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16 Dec 20 - 07:28 PM (#4083814) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Steve Shaw I didn't point the finger, Ebbie, and I know you're not anti-vaccine. I'm worried that huge numbers of people may reject the vaccine on grounds that, for them, are not rational, because of all the fearmongering that's going on. It just strikes me that folk with issues with the vaccine, real or imagined, are getting so much airtime, and that this will build significant public resistance to the vaccine. Not good, that... |
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16 Dec 20 - 08:43 PM (#4083825) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Mrrzy I like the extra manly growth idea. |
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18 Dec 20 - 01:56 AM (#4083951) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie I'm glad that a good many of these shots are being done in public; seems like that should help ease people's minds. |
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18 Dec 20 - 04:31 AM (#4083966) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Jos Does anyone know what the vaccine advice is for people who have Long Covid? |
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18 Dec 20 - 08:36 AM (#4083983) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow I'd think it likely that anyone with Long Covid would probability have immunity already and wouldn't need a vaccine. Though they aren't sure about how long immunity lasts from Covid or from the vaccine. It's still early days. For people in Ebbie's position, if she can't take the caccine, the hope is that enough people will have had a vaccine or had Covid to mean there's herd immunity, and not much risk of getting a dose. The threat is that there will be too many anti-vaxers to achieve that. One thing to set against that, especially for those who combine that with scorning wearing masks or respecting distancing, is that they will have a higher chance of getting infected, and contributing to us all getting herd immunity, but doing it the hard way. ..... As for me, I've just come back from having the jab. No side effects at all, so far, just the slightest weakness in the shoulder where it was given.. So it's one month, and I can get down to the pub and play music with people. If the pubs are open by that time, of course. I've been thinking of the day my mother picked me up from infant school and told me the War was over, and I ran up and down the pavement cheering, which I felt was the appropriate thing to do. I didn't do that this time - well, for most people the war is still on. But there's not too long to go. |
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18 Dec 20 - 10:17 AM (#4083994) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Donuel Some may get to choose which vaccine to get. |
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18 Dec 20 - 12:27 PM (#4084022) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: punkfolkrocker I want the deluxe vaccine in black, with all the accessories, including luxury bag and strap.. .. the guitar players Ltd edition vaccine... |
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18 Dec 20 - 01:38 PM (#4084030) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Bill D Two days late, but I had never heard of "tramadol" Looked it up.. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-tramadol-a-risky-pain-medication-2019061416844 Seems it's in class by itself. I have had Hydrocodone, Codine, and once, for a bad kidney stone, they gave me Dilaudid in an IV... wow! Instant relief. Fortunately, I have VERY few allergies to any drugs and tolerate standard doses as if they were designed for me. I am also not an addictive person... to alcohol or pain meds. I am perhaps over-cautious in how much I use of either, but I'd like to keep my status. Just lucky, I guess... |
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18 Dec 20 - 02:05 PM (#4084037) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Jos My problem with codine wasn't the only time a doctor's advice was not good. There was the time he insisted I needed extra pills for high blood pressure on the basis of one reading, taken in the surgery after a brisk walk on my part to get there. I dutifully took the pills until, after a routine blood test, I got an urgent call from the surgery telling me to stop taking them immediately as they were damaging my kidneys. And there was the time I was given an injection before surgery. They told me it would take me "to a happy place". Instead I was overcome with a wave of unimaginable despair as I was taken to such a dark lonely place I could never have thought it possible if I hadn't experienced it. So I am wary of medical assurances. |
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18 Dec 20 - 02:43 PM (#4084043) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow Doctors aren't always right, and when it comes to stuff like whether a drug experience feels good or bad, people vary enormously in how it affects them subjectively. But it's a fair rule of thumb that doctors are likely to be a better source of information than web gossip. |
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18 Dec 20 - 05:28 PM (#4084073) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Bill D It's also the case that doctors have so many patients and so many ongoing medical advances and drugs to evaluate, that they often just diagnose and prescribe based on some general principles and 'average' situations. If you are not an 'average' medical case (as I am), complications can arise. My wife is very sensitive to medications, and she has to insist on smaller doses of some things to avoid bad reactions. We have several scary stories about close calls and bad experiences when some doctor or nurse didn't want hear about objections to some drug or procedure. It's a delicate matter to stand up to careless medical advice without upsetting the 'experts'. |
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18 Dec 20 - 05:53 PM (#4084075) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie My system tolerates Tramadol- after surgery I was on a drip with it when they gave me a tiny pill of oxycodone, whereupon I promptly broke out in a rash. As for codeine- when they asked me if I could take it in Robotussin, I said, Sure! I assumed that sometime over the years I had had codeine- hasn't everyone? Well. With the first dose I never even got sleepy all night; the nurses would come in and I was very chatty. At noon the next day I was 'gone' for 20 minutes by the clock so that night they gave me another dose of Robotussin with codeine. That night I hallucinated: streams of people filed into my room and paused at the foot of my bed and I would tell them (I don't know if I said it aloud) 'Go sit on the wall' and they would leave. That was my first experience with hallucination- and it was kind of funny, in retrospect.... |
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18 Dec 20 - 11:37 PM (#4084111) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: The Sandman I dont think this is a conspiracy,neither can i see i have much to lose by getting vaccinated |
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20 Dec 20 - 07:03 AM (#4084262) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: Ebbie I just now noticed what you said about dilaudid, Bill D, and that reminded me. Although I was on a tramadol drip I was still uncomfortable and wanted to sleep so I asked the nurse if the drip was a pain killer? She answered that, no, it was more of a relaxant (I think she said) so I asked if I could have a bit of a pain killer. She said, Ok and left. Came back with a tiny white pill and said that it was something they don't give unless it is asked for and she is giving me the smallest dosage. Well. I took the pill and maybe four minutes later I felt great. Not high but just good. But a few minutes later my chest began to itch and the nurse checked and a rash had formed. I said, I hope that's the tramadol She said she would give the doctor a call. Came back and said the doctor said it is highly unlikely to be the tramadol, that it must be the hydrocodone. But for a few minutes there I felt great. |
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21 Dec 20 - 03:48 AM (#4084403) Subject: RE: BS: Liberation Day! From: McGrath of Harlow I wrote this sing about it yesterday, and put up. A thread in the mussic section. Here it is - "I've had the Jab" (I posted about this earlier, but it eems to have gone missing. I must have not done it right.) |