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11 Jan 00 - 07:47 PM (#161397) Subject: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Does anyone know what is meant by the word "sold" in these lines of this song, "Acres of Clams"?
I've wandered all over this country, My sister, Betty, the elementary music teacher, says this: "This is a song about a prospector that does not get rich prospecting for gold in Calif. and eventually ends up in Washington state. Thanks, katlaughing |
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11 Jan 00 - 08:25 PM (#161415) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: MAG Kat, do you just want the rest of the lyrics? They're in the DT -- look under [acres of clams]. the tune is "Rosin the Bow." |
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11 Jan 00 - 09:15 PM (#161422) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing No, MA, sorry. What she really wants to know is what is meant by the word "sold" in that one line. What is the miner talkng about? As it reads, it sounds as though he's talking about himself being sold which doesn't make a lot of sense. Wondering if it supposed to infer he's been sold 1) a bill of goods, 2) down the river, or 3) what? Any help is apprecaited. she already has the words and the tune. Thanks, MA katlaughing |
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11 Jan 00 - 09:34 PM (#161427) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton I guess I've always just assumed that "sold" meant "cheated," "stung," "rooked," "taken advantage of," "burned," "conned," "fleeced," etc. Partridge (A Dictionary of the Underworld, British and American) has only "sold down the river" and "sold out," but under "sell" he has "to sell a man is to betray him, by giving information against him, or otherwise to injure him clandestinely for the sake of interest... A man who falls a victim to any treachery of this kind, is said to have been sold like a bullock in Smithfield, J. H. Vaux, 1812." Look at the text of "Dreary Black Hills" in the DT, Kat. You'll see the term "sell" used to suggest a con game or a dishonest hustle, at least. It's in about the fourth of fifth verse. Sandy |
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11 Jan 00 - 09:42 PM (#161429) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Thanks, Sandy! I'll tell Betty about that, too. Much appreciated! luvyaKat |
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11 Jan 00 - 09:44 PM (#161430) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: dick greenhaus My dim memory of the works of Mark Twain digs up several examples of "sold", as "sold" (a phony gold gold brick) or "sold" (a wooden nutmeg). A bit later, folks were sold the Brooklyn Bridge. |
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11 Jan 00 - 09:55 PM (#161438) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Thanks, Dick! |
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11 Jan 00 - 10:09 PM (#161445) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Phil Nuytten Glen Yarborough/Limeliters used this tune in their stage act - including a line " we have been frequently sold" can dig up the lyrics if you wish 72020.572@compuserve.com |
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11 Jan 00 - 10:35 PM (#161453) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O. The lyrics are in DT as "Old Settler's Song". My understanding was as Sandy's above, and we both remember it was the theme song for a radio program of folk songs sung by Ivar Haglund in Seattle on Sunday mornings in the 1950's. The song was written by Francis Henry, a judge in Washington Territory, some time before it became a state, but I don't know exactly when. |
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11 Jan 00 - 10:44 PM (#161458) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton Right you are, Bruce! "Ivar's Acres of Clams" seafood restaurant. Probably one of the earliest live "folk" shows in the country. Ought to be more of 'em. I think I actually learned the song from Walt Robertson, who had a very early television show in Seattle, just sittin' there, strummin' his guitar and singin' folksongs. Imagine! No gimmicks. Walt and I sang together quite a lot, back in those early days. He visited us here in Connecticut only a few years before he died. Another man done gone. Sandy |
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12 Jan 00 - 12:09 AM (#161497) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing You guys are terrific! Thanks bunches! |
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12 Jan 00 - 12:18 AM (#161502) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Fadac Stan Borson did a version of AOC. But during the Alaska gold rush, if you were broke, you could get along by digging clams. You could make a buck a day if you worked at it. Plus you could always eat them. But you could get a dollar for a gallon (or was it 5?) of shucked clams or oysters. Even today you can just about eat your way around the Puget Sound, off of the oysters clinging to the rocks, and clams on the beach. -Fadac |
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12 Jan 00 - 05:17 AM (#161570) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Roger in Baltimore FACDAC, Welcome back! Where have you been? Big RiB |
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12 Jan 00 - 08:24 AM (#161603) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Yeah, Fadac! Welcome back and thanks for the info! katlaughing |
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12 Jan 00 - 11:05 AM (#161670) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bert Sounds to me that the word was chosen simply because it rhymes with gold. I don't think that we should try to read too much meaning into it. Questions like this, though, always make me wish that I had kept my copies of Terry Golden's "Americana" articles that were published in "Sets in Order" magazine in the fifties. He went through a lot of these old songs and explained them. I emailed "Sets in Order" recently but they do not have back issues for sale. Bert. |
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12 Jan 00 - 01:20 PM (#161723) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Yea, Bert, I agree, but the kids want to know, ya know? Here's what Betty said in an email to me about the great help so far, this is to all of you: "Well, I guess I got my answer. It's kind of like we thought but put in better words. Once again THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't it amazing how much these guys know and have forgotten?" And THAT is a compliment, guys! Thanks a bunch, katlaughing |
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12 Jan 00 - 10:56 PM (#162017) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Mary G if you want the sequal to Acres of Clams..Brian Richardson (Robertson?) of B.C. wrote a great song called "when the tide is out the table is set..." a very catchy tune and chorus... mg |
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13 Jan 00 - 12:07 AM (#162038) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Thanks, Mary, I'll pass that on to my sister. |
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13 Jan 00 - 02:38 AM (#162085) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton There's also the lively "Dig a duck, dig a "gooey-duck" (geoduck) song from that neck of the sound. However, I think we can give "sold" the meaning that is implied in its context: namely, as in being "sold a bill of goods." The same meaning is clearly suggested by the text in "Dreary Black Hills." A fellow is lured to the goldfields by all the "get rich quick" talk, only to discover that mining is pretty chancey, and farming is "the only pursuit that is sure." Clearly, he's been duped, and apparently it's not the first time! Sandy |
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13 Jan 00 - 06:02 AM (#162102) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Boarding Party (KC) My favorite clam saga, provoked by singing the Geoduck (pronounced "Gooey")song, holds that Geoucks were the Jesse Owens' of the bivalve set. You stalk them at low tide by looking for their tell tale bubble. Then you dig, by hand, very hard and very fast as the clam heads lickity split for Mongolia. I've heard Duck digs to approximate bomb craters. Things get spicier when, just as you grab the slimey critter by its long, long neck, the TIDE comes in. While not quite Fundian, tides on the Olympic Peninsula are to be reckoned with. Sometime you win, sometimes the clam wins. The price to the digger at that time was "a buck a duck". I fondly recall being served "Geoduck Filets" in the Emerald City. More lore in DT under Gooey Duck |
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13 Jan 00 - 09:22 AM (#162138) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Willie-O For a brief period in the 70's I attended Evergreen State College in Olympia WA, which has as its official mascot--the geoduck. Bumper stickers etc were available. Imagine my surprise last year when I heard an entire hour of the CBC radio program "Ideas" solely devoted to geoducks--past present and future, touching on environmental issues, mythology, native rights and you name it. Willie-O |
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13 Jan 00 - 04:47 PM (#162320) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O. Hailing originally from Bremerton, I have some doubts about digging out a geoduck by hand. It was hard enough with a clam gun (elsewhere known as a spade). We should probably have watched the native Indians to learn how they did it, but not all of their stuff was really that good. The Indians around there are the only ones who had Rain Dances to make the rain stop, but that never worked worth a slugs fart. |
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13 Jan 00 - 06:42 PM (#162387) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton I was walking down a touristy sidewalk in Bar Harbor, Maine, one afternoon, and found myself behind a vacationing student from Evergreen College proudly sporting his "Evergreen College Geoducks" jacket. I made him an outrageously generous offer for it, but he declined. Such college loyalty! I guess I'll have to stick with my "Toledo Mudhens" sweatshirt. Sandy |
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13 Jan 00 - 09:48 PM (#162499) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Would someone explain to me why Geoducks is pronounced "Gooey ducks"? Thanks! |
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13 Jan 00 - 09:54 PM (#162502) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O. The question is why is it spelled geoduck? |
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13 Jan 00 - 10:03 PM (#162507) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O. There's a lot of strange names is Washington, many from Indian names, but some are just goof ups. Some ancient mariner exploring Puget Sound make a map and labeled a place on it as Point, No. Point, but someone left off the punctuation in a list of place names, and for longer than records go back it's been Point No Point. |
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13 Jan 00 - 11:05 PM (#162529) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Boarding Party (KC) Bruc, There's a Point No Point closer to the home. Its on the west bank of the Chesapeake down in Southern Maryland - just north of Point Lookout where the Potomac empties into the Bay. Point Lookin is about half way between Point Lookout and Point No Point. John Barth was fixated this [non] promitory in some his Bay-ward novels. Both the WA and MD P-N-Ps have light houses with the WA light on the Kitsap Peninsula being older than the MD light by 26 years. |
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13 Jan 00 - 11:30 PM (#162541) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O Thanks KC, I didn't know about the MD one, and must have missed in the Barth novels I've read (all of which I loved except for Giles Goat-Boy). I wasn't much of a salmon fisherman, so have only been to the WA one a few times. Bremerton, where I mostly grew up was known affectionately as 'the thriving metropolis by the navy yard gate', but I never actually lived in the town. |
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14 Jan 00 - 12:08 AM (#162564) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Bruce, LOL, re' why IS it spelled that way! Thanks for, ahem, explanation. *BG* Reminds me of a little teeny town we lived in in Western Mass: Granville, then there was Granville Center, several miles up in the hills and West Granville, many more miles up in the Berkshires, but they were all really one town! Seemed strange to a Westerner, at first. Did you ever know any of the native Americans from around Bremerton? |
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14 Jan 00 - 12:34 AM (#162575) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Bruce O. No, I didn't of the Kitsap County ones. Most still lived on many small reservations, but the Illahee one was the only one I can recall that was close to any fairly good sized town. I did know slightly some that lived about a half-mile from where I did (not on a reservation). There's an annual Pow-Wow now that started after I'd moved away from the area, but went to once on a visit. One of my friends was an Indian but he came from Oklahoma. His father was a Cherokee Chief, a good title, but with no pay attached to it, so he went west. He worked in the navy yard, but after he retired he got pretty famous working for Indian rights in Washington (particularly fishing rights around Neah Bay). [I worked in the navy yard, too, one summer, and the Keyport Naval Torpedo Station another, and my father worked at the navy yard for over 20 years.] |
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14 Jan 00 - 12:48 AM (#162585) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Ah, the reason I asked was because my ex-father-in-law whom I really cared for, was born and raised there, half or one quarter Cherokee (his mom was on the Dawes Rolls), and worked in the shipyard, too. He also served in the armed forces, but when he tried to collect benefits there were no official records to be found. He was educated at an "Indian" school, but I've had no luck finding out which one; last name was Anderton and his mom was a Breuer. Thanks, Bruce. What you have shared is very interesting. katlaughing |
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14 Jan 00 - 01:40 AM (#162614) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton I've seen that tough, long-necked beastie referred to as "Chinook dialect" and spelled "gwee-duc." Trouble is, I can't tell you where I saw it. One of my dictionaries describes it as a clam found in Puget Sound, weighing up to fifteen pounds each. You could make a lot of chowder from one of those! Can't help you with your ex-father-in-law, kat, but I spent some time one summer sharing a shack in the Neah Bay reservation with an anthropologist (Jim Spelius) who was doing Rh factor blood tests of the tribe. Charlie Swan lived in the house right next to ours. Charlie carved the masks, etc., but his vision was failing, so he got his daughters to help paint them, following his very specific instructions. I later saw his photograph on the cover of a book of Northwest Indian art. He was also a fine singer of traditional songs. One night, after having been through a particularly rough day, Charlie came to our place, more than a bit in his cups, sat in our front room and sang most of the night. He sent one of his sons next door to fetch his drum so he could show us his most powerful love song. He had to have the drum to do it right. That was a magic night for me! Sandy |
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15 Jan 00 - 02:39 AM (#163247) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Phil Nuytten Regards the 'Geoduc' ( Fisheries Resource spelling) . . .it is not from Chinook jargon, that is, there are no words in the Chinook jargon that are even close to 'Gooey' or 'Kwee' nor are any close to 'Duc' or 'Duck' The Geoduc is not distinct from the Horse Clam in the jargon ( both are large Pacific northwest clams whose shells are quite different but the protruding siphons are similar - Geoduc siphons are 'fringed' while Horse clams are smooth) the word for either of these in Chinook is 'Mamook Smetocks' Only other clam names are 'Mamook ona' ( Razor clam) and 'Mamook lukutchee' ( Littleneck) For those unfamiliar with Chinook jargon, it was/is a 'Lingua Franca' or trade language spoken from Southern Oregon to Alaska . It was comprised of words from the Salish, Kwak'wakawakw ( ex- Kwakiutl) and Nuchalnath ( ex- Nootka) After contact, a number of English and French derived words were added, primarily to cover off things that hadn't existed before. It took the early explorers a relatively long time to figure out that each educated native spoke at least two distinct languages - that of their home village and Chinnok jargon - a sort of early Esperanto. The Chinook people lived around the mouth of the Columbia River and oral tradition has it that they conceived of this system which was named for them and contained a large number of Chinook words. More than you wanted to know, probably! 'Geoduc" is not in Kwak'wala (Kwakiutl Lang.) nor Wakashan (Nootka Lang.) I doubt it is Chinook since it would be in the Chinook jargon if it were. It may be Salish, but it doesn't 'sound' Salish. So where does it come from??? Good question . . .which is not even slightly closer to being answered even after all this log-windedness. I will check on the Salish and report back. Regards from British Columbia! |
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15 Jan 00 - 09:43 AM (#163300) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing NO! Phil, NOT more than we wanted to know! Fascinating and greatly appreciated! Thank you, thank you, please, when you have time, tell us more. katlaughing |
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15 Jan 00 - 12:27 PM (#163358) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton Could it be a simple corruption of the "smetocks" part of the term for the horse clam? One of my sources of misinformation (and not the only one, I'm sure, since this one doesn't refer to the "fifteen pounds" that I remember) was The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. I quote: "Geoduck n. Also gwe-duc. A very large, edible clam, Panope generosa, of the Pacific coast of northwestern North America. [Chinook jargon go-duck.] So much for "reliable sources!" Thanks, Phil. Sandy |
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15 Jan 00 - 08:33 PM (#163620) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton Letting my curiosity push me a bit more, I find that the tenth Collegiate Edition of Webster's says: "geo-duck \'gu-e-,dek\ noun [Lushootseed (Salishan language of the Puget Sound region) gwideq] (1883): a large edible clam (Panopea abrupta synonym P. generosa of the Pacific coast that sometimes weighs over five pounds." This is still NOT my original reference, where the size was described as "up to fifteen pounds." However, The Oxford Universal Dictionary on Historical Principles (third edition) says: "1883. [? Amer. Indian.] A large edible clam (Glycineris generosa) from the Pacific coast of the U.S." Finking out on us with that [? Amer. Indian], eh? On the other hand, A Dictionary of Americanisms on Historical Principles says: geoduck 'gui,dak, n. [see note.] A large, edible clam, Panope generosa, found on the Pacific coast." It then continues: "No doubt from a Nisqualli Indian term meaning 'dig deep.' See Webster s.v. gweduc. In Natural History, April 1948, 190, the name is said to be based on that of a certain John F. Gowey. The pronunciation given here is the one said to be correct on page 163 of the magazine cited, but Cent. Supp., s.v. geoduk, has ['goidak]." It then continues: 1883 Nat. Museum Bul. No. 27, 239 Glycimeris generosa... is a Pacific coast species, known as the 'Geoduck' or 'Giant Clam.' Ib 263 Geoduck or Giant Clam... [is found on] the Pacific coast, in rivers and estuaries from Puget Sound to San Diego. 1903 Sci. Amer. Supp. II April 22, 805 In Alaskan waters is found a monster clam, the 'geoduck,' one of which would afford a meal for several persons. Well, we've extended the bugger's range from San Diego to Alaska, while my misplaced initial reference stated that it was peculiar to the waters of Puget Sound. The question, it would seem, is whether "Nisqualli" is a "Salishan" language related to or identical to 'Lushootseed'(and let's hope Phil can answer that for us), or whether it's all an etymological confusion based on an initial misunderstanding, and the monster clam was actually christened eponymously for (or by) our Mr. Gowey. If so, why complete the name with 'duck,' rather than 'clam?' It surely doesn't walk like a duck, or talk like a duck! Well, the future of the world hardly depends on it, but it is kind of fun! Sandy (still looking for his elusive original reference) |
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15 Jan 00 - 10:38 PM (#163704) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: PN Hi, Sandy and Katlaff: Wow, good digging!! ( the info, not the clams) I'd never heard the 'Mr. Gowey' reference . . .could well be something like that. Nisqually is one of the dialects of Salishan . . . same as spoken in B.C. and Washington with just minor locale specific slang and family references. Duck-diving is big business in B.C. and Puget Sound. Millions per year in revenues . .this has extended to Alaska but the annual take is much smaller. 15 pound ducks are uncommon, but 8 and 10 pounders are not too infrequent By the way, the Ducks don't dig fast to escape the would-be harvestor, as many sources report . . .they simply contract their siphons - up to 3 feet!! |
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15 Jan 00 - 11:42 PM (#163734) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Oh, boy! This is getting SO graphic! Remember I'm a Rocky Mtn. gyrl, landlubber vegetarian and know nothing about clams. Are you saying these monster clams have 3 foot "suction hoses" which accordion closed??? Hoo-boy, I looked for a picture in my dictionary and no go. Also didn't find them in my granddad's 5 volume late-1800's dictionary, so now, I shall have to put my internet search skills to the test and go hunt some of these up. I have got to see these! Wonderful, wonderful. I do love the etymology, Sandy and PN! I know my sister never dreamed we'd get this kind of info from a song clarification! Thanks! katlaffIlikeit |
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16 Jan 00 - 12:11 AM (#163743) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton Is your dad's dictionary, by any chance, an edition of the grand old Century, kat? I have the 10 volume 1897 edition and absolutely love it! As for those geoduck siphons: in my Seattle days, those that I saw reminded me of a stallion in heat! Good to have your expertise here, Phil. Now, who/what/where the heck are the Lushootseed? Sandy |
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16 Jan 00 - 01:31 AM (#163764) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: PN Hi, Clam-fans . .sorry I had to bail, in the midst of getting stuff packed up for a show in Las Vegas day after tomorrow - so had to answer the usual last minute phone calls!! . . " Looshutseed " is not a NWC language that I know of . .but could, I suppose. refer to 'Loucheaux', or anglicized to 'Loo-shoo' These are a native group in Alaska/BC that have a different linquistic root than the people surrounding them, ( Dene, Athapascan, etc.) the name is from the French ( literally, 'squinters')The Dene are an interesting bunch. also . .Dene is pronounced 'D'neh' . . The Navajo people call themselves the 'T'nneh' The reason it sounds so close is because they are the same people! I guess it was an ussually cold winter a few hundred years ago, and the Dene walked south to find a warmer home! The amazing thing was that no-one apparently made the connection until relatively late - when some ethnographers and linquists discovered that the languages were not just similar, but identical! The oral history of the Navajo says they walked a very long way from their northern homeland . . .boy, that's an understatement! But, I digress from the King Clam ( the Seattle/Madison Avenue-style name for Geoducs - after all, who wants to eat some something they never heard of, cant pronounce, and that looks like a . . .well. not terribly photogenic unless you liked "Boogie Nights") The Geoduc was only available to the native people during the very low Fall tides ( Neap Tides) since it was sub-tidal most of the year. It was taken with a long curved digging stick made specially for that purpose ( some survive in museums and collections, where there are usually identified as weapons of war - and, to the geoduc, I suppose that's true . . .)Even the native people take them by diving - not Scuba diving, but surface supplied air and hose. The diver uses a water hose and a gun ( often made from a gasoline nozzle) with a longish snout.Intermediate pressure water ( 100-200 PSI / 50-100 GPM) is pumped from the boat and the Ducks are jetted or 'blown' out of the sandy bottom. The Ducks lay on the sea floor ( remember, they can't dig themselves down) until the diver is ready to move, then they are put into a bag and sent topside. Physicaly, the Ducks have a rounded rectangle shaped shell in plan view, with an oval cross section, one end of the shell closes, the siphon end has a large circular gap for the siphon. The shell is about 6 to 8 inches long and half that in diameter. The siphon ( retracted) is as thick as a man's wrist or thicker, and about 18 - 24 inches long - about twice that when extended. The ducks live to great age and there is a growing suspicion that the harvest rate cannot be sustained. I have seen areas where they are so abundant that the siphons are only a hand span apart - but ten years after taking them, there are still none in those exact spots. Jeez, a manuscript is forming here! Sorry! BTW, my day job is underwater (when I'm not song-writing or shooting documentaries and other fun stuff) Check us out at www.nuytco.com |
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16 Jan 00 - 10:01 AM (#163811) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing WOW! Pretty incredible stuff, Phil! How fascinating and now, everytime I watch something about the ocean on tv, I'll have to pay especial attention for your stuff! Very impressive...sure glad you joined us. One question, where can I get one of those articualted mating skirts? **Big Grin** Thanks for all of the info on those really huge clams! I still haven't found a picture, but since web searching is what I do (websearchnet.com - under construction), I figure I'll scare one up somewhere, "patience, my lovely, patience." Still having a difficult and hilarious time imagining those "long dong" suction hoses! All the best, katlaughing/Katlaff
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16 Jan 00 - 03:15 PM (#163908) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sourdough Although I am running the risk of repeating something someone else has pointed out in this long thread (I haven't read it all) I may be able to add a bit to the discussion of the meaning of the verse kat quoted in the thread-starting post.
"I've wandered all over this country, The verse is certainly about gold, mentioning five activities in the one verse that are related to gold. "Prospecting" is self-explanatory, finding gold. The next four verbs are ways of getting gold. Digging is the most obvious. Tunneling is hard-rock mining, getting gold from the rock where it is embedded in tiny particles. It means the rock has to be blasted out, crushed by powerful hammers, and then the gold separated from the broken rock. Hydraulics is the washing down of hillsides of overburden to get to the gold strata below. Huge hoses called Monitors were set up in the Gold Country of California and the powerful water blast literally ripped away trees, plants, and soil and washed them all into the streams and rivers. The debris made its way to San Francisco Bay where it silted up the bottom. In Dana's book, Two Years Before the Mast, he describes sailing into Yerba Buena (Pre-Gold Rush San Francisco) and mentions that the bottom of the bay was light-colored and visible from the deck. Today, that is very hard to believe. There are now swamps and marshes in places where there used to be river runs, all due to mining excesses of what is getting to be one and a half centuries ago. The waste created by hydraulicking set off an early form of the conservation movement. Hydraulics were used in other gold districts but it happens that I am most familiar with Northern California where it is still possible to see the canyons of bare rock where the water cannons did their work long ago. Cradling is another way of separating gold from not-gold. It is kind of an automated panning process. A cradle can be a homemade device operated by one man or a larger machine operated by a crew. They are still used today. To sum it all up, when this song was current, listeners would have known that the singer was an experienced, if not successful, gold-seeker. I hope this adds to your enjoyment of the song. Sourdough |
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16 Jan 00 - 03:25 PM (#163913) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Thanks, SD! It does indeed! Having grown up in CO, I was familiar with some of what you relate but not all of it and not to that depth! WOW, I'd love to have seen the bay looking like that! All the best, katlaughing |
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17 Jan 00 - 01:39 AM (#164149) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: PN Hi, Katlaff . . Gee, talk about 'the forest for the trees' I never once thought how some-one not in the u/w tech biz would waggle their eyebrows at ' Articulated mating skirt' - I'm usually fast with the the double entendre's, but I'm so used to that sort of technospeak that it never once occured to me! Oh, Well, the AMK is enshrined in U.S. Patent law for the next 11 years! Speaking of which ( mating skirts, not patents) My wife and I were invited to a small city (Big Village?)in the mountains of France called Espalion - a few months ago. We went with Jean-Michel Cousteau and some other friends for the opening of a large exhibit glorifying Jules Verne's '20,000 leagues', etc. and French undersea technology - one of my suits (Exosuit) is the program's 'mascot' lots of speeches, blah, blah. A part of the upstairs display of the museum (which is housed in a centuries-old church) is village life of the last century. One of the artifacts is a woman's nightdress of some heavy, canvassy-looking material with a rounded, rectangular, cut-out in the 'lower front' ( about 6" high by 2" wide; Hmmm.. about Geoduck size . .) and embroidered above this marital delight are the words ( in French, of course) " For God's will". Boy, seems to me there oughta be a French trad song about that little gem! They sell postcards with a shot of this garment: Musee du Scaphandre, d'Espalion, Aveyron, France. Goodness, Song ideas everywhere! |
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17 Jan 00 - 05:45 AM (#164191) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Oh, my! Did they wear it under lock and key with a chastity belt underneath? Hahaha. It's okay about the techno-speak. My husband is a broadcast engineer. Early on I started teasing him about titrivating my tweeters. Oh, and I KNEW we'd have to watch out for those geoducks! Sounds as though your work brings into plenty of situations for song material. Like i said before, glad you are with us, please stick aorund and share some more! Oh, and one of the coolest things a friend of mine has is one of those late 1800/early 1900 diving helmets, the bubblehead type made out of brass? It was her grandfather's, who used it a lot. I've a tiny one on my keychain. Sounds like the exhibit was interesting to say nothing of the company! Thanks, katlaff |
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17 Jan 00 - 05:55 PM (#164377) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: PN Hi, Katlaff: Hmmm. . .'titrivating'?? sounds a bit like " How do you titillate an Ocelot? . . .oscillate their titsalot!" Off to the airport, back in two weeks and will check in to see whats going on .. |
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17 Jan 00 - 08:22 PM (#164422) Subject: Lyr Add: GEODUCK From: Joe Offer Is there something about clams that demands an indelicate name? The better they taste, the worse the name. I've been trying to think of another interesting variety of clams since this thread took a turn toward the geoducks. Quahog is the variety I was thinking of - also spelled quahaug and quohog. Any songs that mention any clam varieties by name? We could have the Quahog Calypso, and the Geoduck Squat, or something... Geoduck
Chorus:
Stolen from here (click). For more interesting information, see The Geoduck Page and, more appetizingly, Jamestown Seafood.
-Joe Offer- |
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18 Jan 00 - 06:06 PM (#164806) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Sandy Paton Oh, it isn't any trouble And it doesn't take a shovel. To dig a gooey-duck You just go lookin' for the bubble. You walk along the sand About a half-a-mile from land. To dig a gooey-duck You gotta dig him up by hand. Dig a duck... etc. |
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21 Sep 00 - 09:12 AM (#302160) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Refresh...wondering if Phil is back in the States and hoping to catch his eye with this, again. |
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21 Sep 00 - 09:48 AM (#302186) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: GUEST,Giac, not at home Well, kat, since you brought it back ... When I first heard the song, as a kid, I thought "sold" meant the singer's indenture was sold. As when a man, or woman, was indentured for a number of years of labor, in return for passage somewhere, or upkeep, or whatever. A lot of adventure books were tales of indentured servents who worked off their servitude and ultimately were freed. Some of them were bound to a "boss" of some sort, but he could "sell" them to another. It just seemed to my child's mind that the singer of AOC was not owned bodily, as a slave, but that his labor was owned until he repaid a debt. Just another thought to further muddy the waters over the clam beds. |
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21 Sep 00 - 10:46 AM (#302240) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: mousethief "Nisqually" is a river and valley just north of Olympia, WA. Which is sort of weird because most rivers in these parts end in "homish" or "wamish" -- which makes me think it's not the original name but one given by the White Man. It is also the name of a local tribe -- perhaps the white settlers named the valley after the people they found dwelling in it (there are other local rivers named after local tribes -- Puyallup for example). Apparently there was either a Nisqually lauguage or a Nisqually-Puyallup language, if various websites are to be trusted. Interestingly ABC News/Science has an article on the Geoduck (click this) which says it is Nisqually for "dig deep." Which by golly makes sense (which of course proves nothing -- most folk etymologies make sense!). FWIW, I have eaten at Ivar's Acres of Clams many times, and still remember him on television commercials with his little ukelele singing horribly punny versions of familiar songs (e.g. "Salmon chanted evening"). His Salmon House restaurant has some of the best alder-smoked salmon in Seattle.
Alex |
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21 Sep 00 - 11:07 AM (#302255) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: mousethief Speaking of this, are there other folk songs that are specifically native to this corner of the woods? (By which I mean, roughly, the Portland/Seattle/Vancouver corridor?) Somewhere at home in my many mixed-up files I have a copy of the words to "Wasn't that a Mighty Day, great God, that evening when the Needle Hit the Ground?" (a quasi-neo-folk song about Seattle's Space Needle) and if I ever find them again, I'll post them.
Alex |
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28 Sep 00 - 11:54 AM (#307355) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Haruo Just to clear up a couple of points that were left dangling in the Acres of Clams thread, which I recently ran across... PN (Phil Nuytten) writes: : I doubt [geoduck] is Chinook since it would be in the Chinook jargon : if it were. Why ? One of the notable things about pidgin trade languages is that they *don't* contain all of the vocabulary of whatever language they draw most of their words from. There are lots of Chinook words that aren't in CJ, and there are some very important, basic CJ words that are of Nootkan (Vancouver Island) rather than Chinook (lower Columbia River) origin. Sandy writes: :Good to have your expertise here, Phil. Now, who/what/where the heck are the Lushootseed? Phil again: : Looshutseed [sic-LBR] is not a NWC language that I know of but it *is* a *language* hereabouts, and a NWC one if you call Puget Sound part of the coast. Lushootseed is the same as "Puget Sound Salish"; it's a generic term for the Salish language(s) native to the shores of Puget Sound, everything south of the Lummi/Nooksack areas and north of the Chehalis/Quinault, except for the Hood Canal Salish, who were Twana speakers. Major local forms of Lushootseed include Skagit, Sauk-Suiattle, Swinomish, Snohomish, Duwamish, Suquamish, Snoqualmie, Muckleshoot, Puyallup, Nisqually, Sahewamish ... basically each village/river had its own dialect, which have to a considerable extent been homogenized by the reservation system, intermarriage, and the automobile; however there are still obvious differences in grammar, not just local slang as someone suggested, between Skagit and Southern Lushootseed (Snohomish is a transitional dialect, plus its territory -- the Tulalip Reservation, especially -- has attracted people from all parts of the Sound.) The proper spelling of the name of the language *in* Lushootseed is dxwlESucid, where the w is superscript, the E should be a schwa (180-degree-rotated e), and the S should be a š (s with a hacek, or inverted circumflex). The Lushootseed word for geoduck is indeed gwídEq, again with a superscripted w and a schwa. But where they got it from, I've no idea. Lushootseed is the language of the noted local elder storyteller Vi (taqwšEblu) Hilton of "Lady Louse" fame. I am afraid I don't know *anything* about Lushootseed folk songs. Most of the Puget Sound tribal organizations have programs to preserve and revive their local forms of Lushootseed, though in some cases the speaking population is reaching the vanishing point. It is taught in Auburn (Muckleshoot) and Marysville (Snohomish) schools, among others. The Lushootseed Dictionary (University of Washington Press, 1994) is a treasure trove of information largely not yet readily available on the Internet. ;-) mousethief writes: : "Nisqually" is a river and valley just north of Olympia, WA. Which : is sort of weird because most rivers in these parts end in "homish" : or "wamish" -- which makes me think it's not the original name but : one given by the White Man. It is also the name of a local tribe -- : perhaps the white settlers named the valley after the people they : found dwelling in it (there are other local rivers named after : local tribes -- Puyallup for example). Actually, the -mish (-bš in Lushootseed) means *people*, not *river*; the rivers were named for the peoples who inhabited their banks. huy? [as they say in Lushootseed on parting; the ? is a glottal stop, not a question mark] Liland Esperanto hymnist and wannabe Lushootseed speaker PS I'm new here, so pardon my butting in like this... |
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28 Sep 00 - 12:07 PM (#307361) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: mousethief Thanks for the linguistic tip! Now I know why we have all these "Mish" words! What neighborhood do you live in, Liland? Maybe I'll see you at a Seattle song circle.
Alex |
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28 Sep 00 - 02:00 PM (#307443) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Jim Dixon Here is the Ivar's Restaurants web site. I was hoping it would have info about the song but it doesn't. I recall the paper placemats had the words to "Acres of Clams" on them. I understand the company is a worker-owned cooperative, and that Ivar set it up that way before he died. Another reason to regard him as a hero. I quote, from their employment page: "Competitive wages, full medical, dental, vision and life insurance benefits, an excellent 401(k) retirement plan and a quality work environment await you at Ivar's! "Qualified applicants are considered for all positions, and employees are treated without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, marital status, veteran status, sexual preference, or the presence of a non-job-related medical condition or disability." Does that sound like a worker's paradise, or what? |
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28 Sep 00 - 02:10 PM (#307453) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: mousethief And they make really tasty fried fish.
Alex |
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28 Sep 00 - 02:11 PM (#307454) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams--and geoduck photo links From: GUEST,Liland Alex, hi, I'm a Freemonster (in many senses: sobered up at the old Fremont AA Hall in 1984; have lived at the same address in Fremont most of the time since 1988; member of Fremont Baptist Church; founding member of the Fremont Esperanto Organization ... etc., etc.). My musical activity is mostly hymnic; might not recognize a song circle if one bit me ;-) ... kat/katlaughing (?) wanted to find geoduck photos; best source for that sort of thing I'm aware of is Stan's Geoduck Page, at www.speakeasy.org/~vashon/geoducks.html Incidentally, Japanese for geoduck is "mirugai"; next time you're in a sushiya, ask for it by name. Liland
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28 Sep 00 - 03:04 PM (#307473) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: mousethief raw geoduck? Bleh! So how are things in Glockamora -- I mean, Fremont? Well if there's ever a Seattle-area Mudcatter get-together, maybe I'll see you there. Meanwhile, since you're new, and interested in hymns, maybe you didn't see this thread: CLICKME
Alex |
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07 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM (#314328) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Haruo It was bound to happen! I've slightly revised (and, I hope, improved) my Esperanto translation of Acres of Clams, La Lamenbrankula Bien', and supplied it with a MIDI and a couple of maps to let Esperantists in Samarkand or wherever know where Puget Sound is. Liland |
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12 Feb 01 - 12:49 AM (#396056) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing refrshing to see if we can catch the eye of PN for more stories of his adventures...are you out there, PN? |
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12 Feb 01 - 02:04 AM (#396082) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Idaho 50 Harking back to Ivar's seafood restaurants, radio program of folk songs, including AOC on the placemats of the restaurant: Do you remember when he ran for Port Commissioner? His slogan was: VOTE FOR IVAR BECAUSE HE'S MORE PORTLY. For true. |
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12 Feb 01 - 04:17 PM (#396584) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: GUEST,ipbar@agate.net Kat, where did you run across "Landlord's Lullaby" (exploring old threads)? Cheers, Charlie |
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12 Feb 01 - 04:33 PM (#396597) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Steve Latimer So there may be some truth to Arlo's epic "The Story of Reuben Clamso and His Strange Daughter In The Key Of A" I love clams, I'm not sure I would like these ones. |
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12 Feb 01 - 07:20 PM (#396720) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: artbrooks Just to contribute a couple of things to this rather disjointed discussion: I remember bringing a geoduck home from the Pike Place Market (wonderful place...at least then) thinking she'd like to try making chowder (no remarks about sexism, please. She prefers not eating my cooking.) The thing was about the size of a kids football, except flat, and the shell didn't begin to close around the clam. A classic blivit. She put it in a bucket of salt water in the back yard until it died a lingering death. Also, Seattle originally had seven (steep) hills, but they were "hydraulicked" down to the topology that you see today...that's where at least part of "Underground Seattle" comes from. |
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13 Feb 01 - 06:51 AM (#396942) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Deckman I was raised on the beach by Puget Sound (Puget's Sound, actually) In the 40's we could easily dig geoducks in the ten pound range. We'd grind the necks for chowder, fillett and fry the meat in the body, very sweet and delicious. My Father came very close to drowning because of a geoduck. It was on the three mile spit of Dungeness. He'd reached into the whole to grab the clam and it clamped on his finger. The tide was coming in very fast and the hole filled up. He was laying on the beach, his arm jammed in the whole yelling for me to get a knife and cut his arm off. The water was rising around his mouth and I was trying to hold the water back with my hands so he could breath. At the last minute, he managed to pull his arm up. He lost most of the flesh on that finger ... a true story! |
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13 Feb 01 - 08:48 AM (#396976) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Steve Latimer Deckman, Do they taste any different to the smaller varieties that we get from the East Coast? Steve |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:35 PM (#397216) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Deckman Hi Steve Latimer ... I've not been to the East Coast, that I remember, but I do think the Geoduck is unique. These are NOT a giant horse clam, or Pismo clam. They are a bi-valve, or is it bio-valve? The neck, which can extend to three feet as Sandy said, is very tough. It's all muscle. It must be skinned. After it's ground up and made into chowder. It tastes just like a rich clam meat. But it's the meat of the body that is the treasure. It's also very tough, so after it's cleaned and filleted, you must beat it, or pound it with a dimple headed mallet to soften the meat. The it's dipped in egg batter, fried slowly, and OH BOY! The body and shell of the clam looks likes any other clam, except that it's the size of large dinner plate. Gotta' go now, I made myself hungry! CHEERS, Bob Nelson |
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13 Feb 01 - 02:44 PM (#397224) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Steve Latimer Bob, Thanks, I'll have to try some sometime. Steve |
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13 Feb 01 - 04:13 PM (#397301) Subject: Lyr Add: AN ODE TO THE HUMBLE GEODUCK (M. Korn) From: Stewart No discussion of geoducks would be complete without this song by Meryle Korn AN ODE TO THE HUMBLE GEODUCK 'Twas some years ago in the summer, Cheers, S. in Seattle
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13 Feb 01 - 04:47 PM (#397326) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: katlaughing Well, I may not have reeled in Phil with this refresh, but the rest of ya have certainly be entertaining! Thanks! kat |
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29 Apr 01 - 07:47 PM (#451786) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Haruo Although the geoduck only makes a cameo (in the company of butter clams and razor clams), there may be some following this thread who would enjoy Carlton Fitchett's "Ode to Puget Sound", which is discussed in this thread. (To let the thread drift in a non-mollusc non-music direction, there's also an example of Lushootseed email I recently received there. I am becoming quite the Lushootseedist.) lilEnd (ASCII Lushootseed spelling of my name) |
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29 Apr 01 - 08:12 PM (#451800) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: DougR Dick: I certainly hope there's nobody out there selling the Brooklyn Bridge these days. I bought it myself in 1952, and decided that I'm just going to hang on to it. It must be worth a lot more than what I paid for it then. I'm banking on selling it for my retirement, if that day ever comes. dougR |
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29 Apr 01 - 11:10 PM (#451881) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Deckman I was at the T.V.station in 1959 when Ivar Haglund and Jim Stevens, of Paul Bunyon fame, did a live broadcast. It was at that show that I first heard Ivar use the phrase, "when the tides out, the tables set." CHEERS, Bob (deckman) Nelson |
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30 Apr 01 - 01:12 PM (#452208) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: Joe_F Likewise, "sell" as a noun can mean a swindle, as is known to those who have sung And now in heaven I dwell And the truth it is to tell That it is a bloody sell: All the whores are down in hell -- God damn their eyes! -- Joe Fineman |
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28 Dec 15 - 11:45 AM (#3761321) Subject: RE: Acres of Clams-WA song-please clarify From: keberoxu Had the television on, a while back, and there was a special about geoducks. I forget what channel. Harvesting them turned into a big deal, the narrator explained, when the Far East countries learned of them. Geoducks are exported there, for the same reasons and the same buyers who value tiger penis soup and other black-market aphrodisiacs. And half a lifetime ago, I was I know not where when the radio was on, and there, big as life, came the Gooey Duck song. Only heard it the once. Talk about earworms! Gotta Dig A Duck, Gotta Dig A Duck A Day....it's been stuck in the grey matter ever since. It was the longest time before I found out what kind of ducks they were digging for. |