14 Jan 00 - 03:38 AM (#162648) Subject: Lyr Add: WORKHOUSE BOY^^ (Broadside ballad) From: Stewie Here's a macabre little ditty:
WORKHOUSE BOY
The cloth was laid in the workhouse halls
CHORUS
When the master he said with a murderous leer
At length all of us to bed were sent
We sought him that hour and we sought him that night
At length the soup copper repairs did need |
14 Jan 00 - 11:12 AM (#162768) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: MMario stewie - you got a tune to go with that? |
14 Jan 00 - 11:58 AM (#162788) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Marymac90 I presume this goes with the "throw my love and her baby overboard" song listed in another thread today? Are we in a contest for the most macabre song we can think of? |
14 Jan 00 - 05:22 PM (#162930) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Stewie MMario, I only have it on an almost worn-out cassette tape. Doctor John posted a while ago that the Halliard LP has been reissued on CD and is available from Mike Raven: Yew Tree Cottage, Jug Bank, Ashley, Market Drayton, Shropshire, TF9 4NJ. IMO it is one of the best albums of the folk revival years in the UK. I've been meaning to obtain a copy of the CD myself. Regards, Stewie. |
14 Jan 00 - 06:29 PM (#162983) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: McGrath of Harlow It's in the repertoire of the very fine English singer Tim Laycock Whether he's recorded it I don't know.
I suppose this is a Victorian Urban Legend - it crops up in Oliver Twist I think (though it might be Sketches from Boz) - here is a quote lifted from a current thread about the Beatles (I want to hold your hand - this Mudcat is a fuinnt place. I think the thread drift is the best bit about it sometimes.) See the sentence in bold.
By and by the beadle comes out, once more intensifying the sensation, which has rather languished in the interval.
He is understood to be in want of witnesses for the inquest to-morrow who can tell the coroner and jury anything whatever respecting the deceased. Is immediately referred to innumerable people who can tell nothing whatever. Is made more imbecile by being constantly informed that Mrs. Green's son "was a law-writer his-self and knowed him better than anybody," which son of Mrs. Green's appears, on inquiry, to be at the present time aboard a vessel bound for China, three months out, but considered accessible by telegraph on application to the Lords of the Admiralty.
Beadle goes into various shops and parlours, examining the inhabitants, always shutting the door first, and by exclusion, delay, and general idiotcy exasperating the public. Policeman seen to smile to potboy.
Public loses interest and undergoes reaction. Taunts the beadle in shrill youthful voices with having boiled a boy, choruses fragments of a popular song to that effect and importing that the boy was made into soup for the workhouse.
Policeman at last finds it necessary to support the law and seize a vocalist, who is released upon the flight of the rest on condition of his getting out of this then, come, and cutting it--a condition he immediately observes.
So the sensation dies off for the time; and the unmoved policeman (to whom a little opium, more or less, is nothing), with his shining hat, stiff stock, inflexible great-coat, stout belt and bracelet, and all things fitting, pursues his lounging way with a heavy tread, beating the palms of his white gloves one against the other and stopping now and then at a street-corner to look casually about for anything between a lost child and a murder.
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14 Jan 00 - 06:37 PM (#162987) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: McGrath of Harlow And another Victorian Urban Legend which I really think might be the most macabre of all is in the DT, but here it is to save clicking away:
DAHN THE PLUG'OLE A mother was bathing her baby one night The youngest of ten, a poor little mite The mother was fat and the baby was thin Only a skellington wrapped up in skin. The mother turned round for the soap from the rack She weren't gone a minute, but when she got back The baby was gone, and in anguish she cried 'Oh, where is my baby', the angels replied Your baby has gone down the plug'ole Your baby has gone down the plug The poor little thing was so skinny and thin He should have been bathed in a jug Your baby is perfectly happy He won't need no bathing no more He's working his way through the sewers Not lost, just gone before.
Like all the best Urban Legends, this is claimed to be based on fact. And it's not impossible either - the kind of public washing facilities concerned would have had quite sizeable drain holes. That's probably spolied whatever meal you might have been planning to have in the 24 hour a day global Mudcat. |
14 Jan 00 - 06:39 PM (#162990) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Jeff Dennison Theres' a copy of the Broadside in the library at Nottingham University but no tune is suggested. Regards Jeff |
13 May 00 - 01:35 AM (#227421) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: DebC Does anyone have the lyrics to Last Farewell from the same album as Workhouse Boy? Debra |
13 May 00 - 11:51 AM (#227529) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Snuffy It seems to be a parody of the macabre "Mistletoe Bough", which is in the DT. Written by Thomas Haynes Bailey in the 1830s, it deals with the legend of the bride trapped in the chest. The tune for the Mistletoe Bough used in eastern England is almost identical to the Mountains of Mourne. Wassail! V |
13 Dec 01 - 02:46 PM (#609144) Subject: Jamie's been murdered by the overseers From: Dick McT This song I remember from about 30 yrs ago in the Dorset folk clubs in UK. I think that I have all the lyrics but would like to check. I would also like to find the authors for a copyright check as we wish to record it. The song concerns a workhouse-master who, to satisfy the legal requirement to give the inmates a special Xmas meal, served up the youngest boy as soup. The chorus is:-We all of us say it And we say it with sneers Poor Jamie's been murdered By the overseers.
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13 Dec 01 - 02:49 PM (#609146) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: Sorcha Stewie posted the lyrics in this thread. There is also some discussion there. |
13 Dec 01 - 05:16 PM (#609234) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: GUEST,MCP The original thread was looking for the tune also and as far as I can see it hasn't been posted. Here it is as I remember it. Mick THE WORKHOUSE BOY The/ cloth was laid in the/ work-house halls/ Great-coats hu-ng on the/ whitewashed walls The/paupers all were/ blythe and gay/ Keep-ing their christ-mas/ ho-li-day// Chorus: And we// all of us say it And we/ say it with fear/ Jam-ie's been mur-dered by the/ o-ver-seer// X: 1 T:Workhouse Boy M:4/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=90 C:Words: Trad arr Moran&Jones/Tune:Moran&Jones K:Em B,|E E2 E-E2 FG|A B2 A-A4| G G2 (F2 E) DF|E E2 E-E2 z B,|E E2 E-E2 (FG)|A B2 A-A4| GG G2 (FE) D2|E E2 E-E2|| zB,/B,/|E E E E2 E FG|AA B A3 z2| GG G F2 E DF|E E2 E-E2 z|| |
13 Dec 01 - 07:39 PM (#609342) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: MMario NWC file sent to Joe. Thanks Mick - doing a file up from your postings is nice and easy. |
14 Dec 01 - 03:30 AM (#609500) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: GUEST,MCP Thank MMario. I've just noticed that the chorus (I just copied the words from the old thread) has a mistake - the last word of the 2nd line should be 'sneers' not 'fear'. (I think - without going back to check - that was mentioned later in the thread too). Mick |
14 Dec 01 - 08:29 AM (#609574) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: Snuffy The first verse sounds like this song is a parody (or at least derived from) MISTLETOE BOUGH in the DT. The DT tune there isn't very good, but the version I've heard sung is basically very similar to 'Mountains of Mourne' WassaiL! V |
14 Dec 01 - 04:50 PM (#609929) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jamie's been murdered by the oversee From: Herga Kitty Well, it makes a change from the usual song about Christmas Day in the Workhouse, and it's great fun singing it to people who've just been eating soup. We used to repeat each chorus too, with relish. Kitty |
12 Oct 09 - 07:43 AM (#2744021) Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: THE WORKHOUSE BOY (from Bodleian) From: Mick Pearce (MCP) This song has just been referenced in another thread (The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner), so I'll add a bit more information here. There are four copies at Bodleian under the title The Workhouse Boy and one under the title The Vorkhouse Boy. This latter is intersting because it specifies an air, which Snuffy, who made the previous post on this thread in 2000, will be pleased to hear was in fact The Misletoe Bough. The texts of all are almost identical, and I give here the text from one of them: The Workhouse Boy - printed by Pratt, Birmingham. (I don't know if this was the source for the Halliard version, but at least it's Birmingham, and as I said the texts seem to vary very little). THE WORKHOUSE BOY The clothes vas laid in the Vorkhouse hall, The greatcoats hung 'gainst the vhite vashed vall, The paupers all were blythe and gay, Keeping their Christmas holiday. Vhen the master he cried vith a roguish leer, You'll all get fat on your Christmas cheer, And each one looks as he seemed to say, I'll have some more soup on this Christmas day, Oh! the poor Vorkhouse boy, &c. At length all of us to bed vos sent, The boy was missing in search ve vent, Ve sought him above we sought him below, Ve sought him vith faces of grief and voe, Ve sought him that hour, ve sought him that night, Ve sought him in fear and ve sought him in fright, Vhen a young pauper cried, I knows ve shall, Get jolly vell vopt for losing our pal. Oh! the poor Vorkhouse boy, &c. Ve sought in each corner, each crevice ve knew, Ve sought down the yard, ve sought up the flue, Ve sought in each saucepan, each kettle and pot, In vater butt look'd, but found him not, Veeks roll'd on ve vos all of us told, That somebody said he'd been burk'd and sold, And when master goes out the parishioners vild, Cried there goes the cove that burk'd the poor child. Oh! the poor Vorkhouse boy, &c. At length the soup copper repairs did need, The coppersmith came and there he see'd, A dollop of bones lay grizzling there In the legs of the breeches the boy did wear; To gain his fill, the boy did stoop, And dreadful to tell he vas boiled in the soup, And ve all of us say it, and say it vith sneers, That he vos push'd in by the Overseers. Oh! the poor Vorkhouse boy, &c. Source: Bodleian broadside, Firth b.26(173), printed by W.PRATT, Printer, 82, Digbeth, Birmingham. All the texts use initial V for standard W (with, I think, two exceptions in this copy). There is also a ballad entitled: The Workhouse Girl, which tells an equally sad tale of a girl who twin sister vos to the ill-fated child. I'll put the text for this up later. Finally here's a transcription, from my memory - I haven't got the recording any more - of the tune The Halliard used (suggested tempo is from memory also). If anyone has any corrections to it feel free to make them. (I also thought the chorus was repeated, but that might have just been me!). X: 1 T:The Workhouse Boy S:The HalliardM:C L:1/8 Q:1/4=84 Z:Mick Pearce from memory K:DDor D|A A2 A-A2 G F|G A2 G-G4| w:The cloth was laid_ in the work-house halls_ F F2 (E2 D) CE|D D2 D-D2 z w:Great-coats hung_ on the white-washed walls_ D|A A2 A-A2 (GF)|G A2 G-G4| w:The pau-pers all_ were_ blythe and gay_ F F2 F (ED) C2|D D2 D-D2 w:Keep-ing their Christ_mas hol-i-day_ "^Chorus:"DD|A/A/ A2 A2 A GF|GG A G-G4| w:And we all of us say it, and we say it with sneers_ FF F E2 D CE|D D2 D-D3|| w:Jam-ie's been mur-dered by the ov-er-seer_ Mick |
12 Oct 09 - 08:43 AM (#2744054) Subject: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky There's also a very similar version in Ashton's Modern Street Ballads. THE WORKHOUSE BOY. The cloth was laid in the Vorkhouse hall,
At length, all on us to bed vos sent,
Ve sought in each corner, each crevice ve knew;
At length the soup copper repairs did need, |
12 Oct 09 - 09:47 AM (#2744100) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Ashton gives no source for his, but it's very,very similar to one of the Bodleian copies (not exactly the same), and again very similar to all of them. Mick |
12 Oct 09 - 10:03 AM (#2744114) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mr Happy Anyone know why the words are couched in such a curious dialect - V for W - surely not a Brum accent? |
12 Oct 09 - 10:38 AM (#2744131) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky The booklet which accompanies the Halliard CD also gives the source and tune. Unfortunately I don't have it to hand right now. I have a sneaking suspicion that they may have got it from Henderson's 'Victorian Street Ballads'. Mr Happy - there's a lovely passage in Folk Songs of the Upper Thames (Alfred Williams) which went along the lines of "country folk spoke in dialect but sang normally, townies spoke normally but sang in dialect". I suspect the above verses were intended for urban consumption. |
12 Oct 09 - 10:43 AM (#2744134) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mr Happy I was thinking German, Yiddish?? |
12 Oct 09 - 10:50 AM (#2744142) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky More like Zummerzet |
12 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM (#2744145) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mr Happy Sminky, Wasn't aware they spoke that way, thanks for link |
12 Oct 09 - 11:01 AM (#2744150) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky On second thoughts, they use 'V' for 'F' - not 'W' so maybe there's another explanation. There's another example here. |
12 Oct 09 - 11:53 AM (#2744183) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky "The interchange of v and w ..... was censured as a Cockney feature by both Sheridan (1762) and Walker (1791). However, it is in no way restricted to Cockney only. It appears to have been common in East Anglian English (Forby 1830: 102) and can be found in various other parts of the south-east (Wakelin 1977: 95). The interchange of v and w became very popular in literary Cockney, where it lived long after it had become obsolete in real Cockney. ..... "The interchange of v and w seems to have disappeared towards the end of the nineteenth century (Ellis 1889: 230, Wells 1982, II: 333) althought the SED still reports stray instances from the south-east of England." The Cambridge history of the English language, Volume 5, p.227 |
12 Oct 09 - 12:12 PM (#2744191) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mick Pearce (MCP) I should have said earlier - the reason I posted a Birmingham printer's text was because I thought I remembered The Halliard notes saying their source was a Birmingham broadside. Mick |
12 Oct 09 - 12:54 PM (#2744229) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: MGM·Lion The OP had one thing wrong, and nobody has corrected it: The Halliard were actually Dave Moran, Nick Jones [as he called himself then, early in his career], and Nigel Patterson. They specialised in writing original tunes to previously unrecorded broadsides, at which both Moran & Jones were particularly gifted. Jon Raven did once record with them, on one of his own-label records, but on alternate tracks, not as part of their lineup. Tony Rose was never associated with them: this confusion possibly arose because Nic Jones's & Tony Rose's first solo albums were the first two issues on Bill Leader's Trailer label not masny years later then the days of The Halliard [whose members had all shortly before been schoolfriends]. |
12 Oct 09 - 01:45 PM (#2744258) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Sminky - Henderson is a possibility as a source. (I'd been trying to find an online copy earlier today as Roud lists it in there; sadly it was published a bit too late to be available online yet). In Lyr Req: Ladies Go A-Thieving/Curious Times Julia Jones said that Henderson was the source for Ladies Go A-Thieving, so it's certainly an option. The tune I gave above will have been written by either Nic Jones or Dave Moran. Mick |
12 Oct 09 - 01:57 PM (#2744277) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: MGM·Lion I am pretty sure that that one was Dave's — he sang the lead on it, I recall. Nic's most successful one, to my recollection, was "Going for a Soldier, Jenny". |
13 Oct 09 - 07:14 AM (#2744778) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky Mick - no, you were right first time - according to the booklet they got it from a Birmingham Broadside (though they do mention the version in Ashton). Indeed, the Workhouse Boy does not appear in Henderson, though this was the source for several songs on the CD, as was Ashton. |
13 Oct 09 - 08:06 AM (#2744833) Subject: Lyr Add: WORKHOUSE GIRL From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Sminky - that's strange. According to my copy of Roud it should be on p42 of Victorian Street Ballads! And below is The Workhouse Girl that I mentioned earlier. Mick WORKHOUSE GIRL You ax me to sing, so of course I shall, I'll sing yu the fate of the poor vorkus gal, Who tein-sister vos to teh ill-fated child, Who in the soup-kettle you knew vos biled. From teh time she heard of her brother's decease, The poor cretur know'd not one moment of peace, But vent out of her mind, and then rav'd & swore, Not vonce in her life vould she gollop soup more. Oh, the poor vorkus gal, &c. Th werry next day, at the time they all feed, Ven I thinks on the brutes, my heart's fit to bleed The poor cretur come vith the rest to be fed Ven a dollop of soup vith taters and bread, Vos shoved in her fist, all svimming vith fat, And missus she told her to grub upon that. As soon as she saw it, says I she I discover This soup has been made from the bones of my brother. Oh, the poor, &c. The old voman flew in a rage so hot, And svore she vould murder teh gal on the spot, So the poor cretur then in a terrible plight, Bolted away vith all her might. Avay she vent vithout bonnet or shawl, She cut down the yard and got over the vall, And not von pauper there, child, voman, or man, For the starving poor cretur cared one tinker's d--- Oh, the poor, &c Now a month pass'd on, no gal vos found, Says an old cook pauper, 'no doubt she's drowned, Unless some kind cove out of charity, Has given her arsenic.' says he. But oh, he vas wrong, for the wery same night A knock at the door put them all in a fright, And ven it vas opened, there stood, oh lud, The poor starving cretur all vallowed in mud. Oh, the poor, &c Her cheeks vas hollow and sunk her eyes, Her belly stuck out such a monstrous size, Most awful her look, dishevelled her hair, And all her poor body vas bleeding and bare, And as the poor gal along the hall valked, She seemed as if from the grave she had stalked, Ven I think on the scene, quite sick my heart turns You must know the poor cretur vos troubled vith vorms. Oh, the poor, &c They sent for a doctor, they sent for a nuss, But ven they both comed the poor cretur vas vuss They guved her some gruel, they tallowed her nose But werry soon after she turned up her toes. Now all the parishioners flewed in a pet, And svore that a Coroner's inquest should set; Ven the Coroner comed, but the wery next day, The vorms vith the body had crawled away. Oh, the poor, &c Source: Bodleian broadside Firth c.16(313) printed by: E. Hodges, from Pitts Wholesale Toy and Marble Warehouse |
13 Oct 09 - 08:56 AM (#2744872) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky Hmmmmm....I only had a quick glance at Henderson last night. It's not indexed very well, so I must have missed it. I'll double check tonight. |
14 Oct 09 - 10:02 AM (#2745518) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky So, who do you believe - Roud or me? OK it IS on page 42 of Henderson and omits verse 3 from Mick's version, above. For completeness, here's the complete listing of songs in the Halliard booklet along with the source of the text, where given. Other sources mentioned are enclosed in brackets. THE DIGGINS O - Ashton CLEVER TOM CLINCH - Jonathan Swift poem BILL DON'T YOU CRY FOR ME - not stated THE DESERTER - Henderson ROBIN HOOD - Grimsby Library? NIGHTINGALE IN THE EAST - Shepard BOLD CAPTAIN GRANT - Harkness WITH WELLINGTON WE'LL GO - Ashton TURPIN'S BONNIE BLACK BESS - Ashton DEATH OF NESLON - Birmingham Lib (Ashton) THE SUFFERING OF CHARLES ADOLPHUS KING - Manchester Ref Lib RAKISH YOUNG FELLOW - either Harkness or Manchester Ref Lib STOW BROW - unknown MILES WEATHERHILL - Hindley (Henderson) SAD LAMENTATION OF JOHN KINGTON - either Coventry or Birmingham Lib CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK - Harkness LADIES GO A-THIEVING - Henderson GOING FOR A SOLDIER JENNY - Henderson THE WORKHOUSE BOY - Birmingham Lib (Ashton) A THOUSAND MILES AWAY - Birmingham Lib THE LAST FAREWELL OF FROST, JONES AND WILLIAMS - unknown KEY:
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14 Oct 09 - 10:12 AM (#2745530) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy From: GUEST, Sminky For absolute completeness, here's the listing of songs in the Halliard booklet along with some I managed to omit the first time ;-] LANCASHIRE LADS - Manchester Ref Lib THE VICTORY - Ashton BRITISH MAN OF WAR - unknown BOLD NEVISON - not stated COLLIER LASS - Harkness JULIEN'S ORIGINAL POLKA - Ashton BOYS OF BEDLAM - D'Urfey DURHAM MILITIA - Henderson THE DIGGINS O - Ashton CLEVER TOM CLINCH - Jonathan Swift poem BILL DON'T YOU CRY FOR ME - not stated THE DESERTER - Henderson ROBIN HOOD - Grimsby Library? NIGHTINGALE IN THE EAST - Shepard BOLD CAPTAIN GRANT - Harkness WITH WELLINGTON WE'LL GO - Ashton TURPIN'S BONNIE BLACK BESS - Ashton DEATH OF NESLON - Birmingham Lib (Ashton) THE SUFFERING OF CHARLES ADOLPHUS KING - Manchester Ref Lib RAKISH YOUNG FELLOW - either Harkness or Manchester Ref Lib STOW BROW - unknown MILES WEATHERHILL - Hindley (Henderson) SAD LAMENTATION OF JOHN KINGTON - either Coventry or Birmingham Lib CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK - Harkness LADIES GO A-THIEVING - Henderson GOING FOR A SOLDIER JENNY - Henderson THE WORKHOUSE BOY - Birmingham Lib (Ashton) A THOUSAND MILES AWAY - Birmingham Lib THE LAST FAREWELL OF FROST, JONES AND WILLIAMS - unknown KEY:
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09 Mar 19 - 02:05 PM (#3981146) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Workhouse Boy From: GUEST,henryp Dave Moran of The Halliard said; "Nic [Jones] and I and mandolin/guitar player Nigel Paterson made up the Halliard. We were looking to develop some new music and we took the advice of song-writer Leslie Shepard. We decided to add tunes to Broadsides that we discovered, uncovered or collected – we checked out the Harkness Collection at Preston and the collections in Manchester etc. "Nic and I wrote all the tunes together, usually sitting in the front of the Mini and singing and working out tunes as we drove – as the mandolin was the smallest instrument and Nigel was in the back, he always played the tunes. 'Jones and Moran' wrote a heap of songs like this including Lancashire Lads, Going for a Soldier Jenny, Miles Weatherhill, Calico Printer's Clerk etc. We wrote the tunes to fit the words and sometimes added or altered words, as in The Workhouse Boy." |