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31 Jan 22 - 11:45 AM (#4134561) Subject: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Most drivers in the UK do not know that some new laws cane into force on Saturday 29 Jan 2022. They all hinge around a new hierarchy of road users with the pedestrian being granted most protection, followed closely by cyclists and horse riders. the order is now - Pedestrians Cyclists Horse riders Motorcyclists Cars/taxis Vans/minibuses Larger vehicles such as HGVs and buses As a frequent pedestrian, cyclist and car driver they seem to make sense to me. And when I saw Jeremey Clarkson's reaction, it confirmed that they were indeed a good move :-D This morning I did my usual cycle trip to Skipton but rather than sticking to the backroads I chose to use the busy bypass. I must say that it seems to me that car and lorry drivers do seem to be paying attention as not once on the bypass did a driver pass me at a dangerously close distance. The only incident I witnessed was an Audi driver (who else?) overtaking me just before a T junction in our local village. A move that was frowned upon before and is definitely dangerous. I can see a proliferation of helmet cams soon and a flood of calls to 101 plus online reports of dangerous driving. Views anyone? |
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31 Jan 22 - 12:11 PM (#4134572) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Donuel Its like maratime guidlines with an exceotion for trains? Still when a tiny sailboat darts in front of a cargo ship the big guy wins. |
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31 Jan 22 - 12:15 PM (#4134573) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Manitas_at_home Apparently the law hasn't changed but the new Highway Code explains it better. |
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31 Jan 22 - 01:22 PM (#4134590) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome I believe some laws have changed. For instance cars must now give way to pedestrians waiting on the pavement to cross a junction. It used to be give way to people already crossing. I could be wrong of course but a search on new driving laws yields lots of results. |
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31 Jan 22 - 01:33 PM (#4134594) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Allan Conn Guidelines have changed for cyclists too. For instance they are being told to be aware of traffic behind them and to let them by being in single file or if need be "stopping" to let traffic past. Plus when passing parked vehicles they are being asked to give more than a door width of space. |
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31 Jan 22 - 02:00 PM (#4134598) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Easier said than done if you are going up a narrow 1 in 5 Allan. If I were to stop I would never get going again! The new rule does add "if it is safe to do so" anyway. I always give parked vehicles a wide berth where I can. The problems arise when you are passing a vehicle and someone else, usually in a BMW or Audi, wants to pass you :-( |
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31 Jan 22 - 02:20 PM (#4134602) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Mr Red For instance cars must now give way to pedestrians waiting on the pavement to cross a junction. No way is that new. The Highway Code book pointed this out when I was a learner on a motorbike. Many years ago. I'm sure there was some text that said "Give way to pedestrians at all times". Think about it - if pedestrians are main road traffic and the Highway Code surely says "give way when crossing main road traffic". The junction thing, as I read it, is when the pedestrian is crossing a minor road as "main road traffic". And if you are forceful enough you can stretch that to include islands where the signs signal a give way. I am sure if a pedestrian forced his way crossing main road traffic and was injured, there would be little sympathy But TBH road design doesn't help. I see cars go shooting through traffic light controlled crossings where there are two lanes and high-sided lorries obscure the nearside lights. Just today I poked my head round a lorry to look for the BMW (it was) so he could see me - he stopped - just, and did he realise his mistake? Not from the sarcastic hand gesture of "OK you can cross". And just to lighten the thread Old road signs never die, they just Give Way. |
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31 Jan 22 - 03:09 PM (#4134606) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome It was always the case for pedestrians already on the road or crossing but it now includes pedestrians waiting to cross. "Rule H2: New priority for pedestrians at junctions At a junction, drivers, motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists should give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. You should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross a zebra crossing (currently you only have to give way if they’re already on the crossing), and to pedestrians and cyclists waiting to cross a parallel crossing." |
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31 Jan 22 - 03:25 PM (#4134613) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: robomatic Glad to see that motorcyclists have some sort of right over cars, but if a car doesn't see 'em and goes into the road ahead of them, the result won't be pretty. Likewise with pedestrians who do not get seen as they proceed into a crossing that they were not already in when a vehicle approached. Everyone is on a phone these days. Either talking on it, looking at it, or both. The pedestrian, the motorcyclist, the car driver, and the lorry driver. So a part of me is thinking these new laws (or newly explicated existing regulations) are to make matters simpler for the programmers of the coming autodriving cars and trucks. It'll probably be a good thing but it won't feel like a good thing. |
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31 Jan 22 - 03:29 PM (#4134615) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Bonzo3legs And I hope these new rules do NOT apply to cyclists riding with no lights against a one way traffic flow - saw 2 this evening. |
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31 Jan 22 - 05:01 PM (#4134629) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Good job they had no lights if they were riding against the flow, Bonzo. They may have dazzled you otherwise! |
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31 Jan 22 - 05:25 PM (#4134637) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Rain Dog I guess we will be all waiting a long time before any party tries to deal with the problem of private car ownership. There are too many vehicles in the UK. Most of those vehicles spend the majority of their time sitting on the road rather than moving. How long do we have to wait before the government decides to put money into public transport rather than subsidise the private motorist? |
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31 Jan 22 - 05:27 PM (#4134638) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Agreed Rain Dog. |
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01 Feb 22 - 08:04 AM (#4134737) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman One of my rowing mates was killed, very horribly, when he rode his bike up from behind, on the left side of an artic, which swung out into the centre of the road at a T-junction, and turned left. He was in the driver’s blind-spot, and the driver was unaware that he was there or that he’d hit him until he’d been dragged thirty or forty yards up the road. Fortunately for the driver, there were a number of reliable witnesses, and the investigation into the accident confirmed that the driver would have been unable to see my friend due to the blind spot. Anyone in the haulage industry (as I was for 17 years) will tell you that it’s necessary for an artic to swing ‘out’ when turning left in order to prevent the trailer from swinging in too far and possibly hitting anything/anyone on the pavement. I think some more, very serious thought needs to be given about the ‘straight-on’ rule. |
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01 Feb 22 - 08:35 AM (#4134744) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Hopefully new sensor technology and micro cameras will eliminate blind spots soon enough. |
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01 Feb 22 - 08:41 AM (#4134745) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome The other thing I should add is that the majority of todays HGVs are totally unsuitable for yesterdays roads! I know it's a tough one to get round but the sooner massive loads are put back on to trains and barges the better for me. Local deliveries can be made by vehicles which do not use the same space and can use greener power. I know there has to be exceptions but that is what they should be - exceptions. |
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01 Feb 22 - 10:19 AM (#4134762) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Couldn’t agree more, Dave. The biggest mistake this country ever made was the destruction of the majority of the rail network. And we all know whose handiwork that was, don’t we? |
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01 Feb 22 - 12:07 PM (#4134781) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome We do, John, but that may be too political! :-) |
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01 Feb 22 - 12:22 PM (#4134783) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Charmion The incident Backwoodsman describes is one of the reasons why I don't ride a bicycle at all, let alone in traffic. I'm blind in my left eye, a problem somewhat mitigated by the wing mirror while driving, but on a bicycle it makes me excruciatingly vulnerable to the antics of motorists as well as the state of the pavement. The hierarchy of road users quoted by Dave the Gnome looks to me just like the German road priority system. I thought Britain wanted out of Europe?! |
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01 Feb 22 - 03:28 PM (#4134798) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Rain Dog "Couldn’t agree more, Dave. The biggest mistake this country ever made was the destruction of the majority of the rail network. And we all know whose handiwork that was, don’t we?" Not so straitforward. The rail industry was underfunded by all governments over the years. If you wanted to cut costs all governments cut the investment to nationalised industries. People look back on the rail industry with false memories. It was underfunded for years, poor rolling stock, poor service. |
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01 Feb 22 - 04:29 PM (#4134807) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw So instead of investing in it they hired the biggest political vandal they could find to decimate it. Nice work. Maybe you should come down to the Westcountry some time, have a look at where our railway lines used to be (you can still trace hundreds of miles of them across the fields), reflect on our near-non-existent public transport and marvel at some of the highest petrol prices in the country. Just recently, a very limited service from Okehampton to Exeter has reopened on what was a Beeching-axed line. Well that's a 45-minute from Bude. Or, next nearest, I could drive to Bodmin Parkway. An hour. In both cases, mind the potholes. |
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01 Feb 22 - 04:41 PM (#4134808) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Charmion's brother Andrew [Quoted from DtG's post] Pedestrians Cyclists Horse riders Motorcyclists Cars/taxis Vans/minibuses Larger vehicles such as HGVs and buses As a cyclist (admittedly one with very few interactions with the horsey set) I think horse riders should be ahead of cyclists in such a hierarchy: cyclists have greater control over their conveyance than a horse rider has. A horse may take it into its head to throw its rider or otherwise act up. |
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01 Feb 22 - 05:00 PM (#4134812) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler One new thing is that you are supposed to open your car door from inside with the opposite hand so that you turn more and look behind as you open it. I predict a lot of older people needing physio after trying to turn. Robin |
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01 Feb 22 - 05:09 PM (#4134814) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Rain Dog "So instead of investing in it they hired the biggest political vandal they could find to decimate it." Decimate? I still cannot get used to the misuse of that word. Yes, every single government under invested in the rail network. Just typical of the lack of long term planning we all suffer from in this country. |
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01 Feb 22 - 05:26 PM (#4134820) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I assure you that I did not misuse that word. Do your research. |
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01 Feb 22 - 05:43 PM (#4134823) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: G-Force Beeching didn't cut anything, he only reported to the Tory government. Most of the resultant cuts took place between 1964-1970, i.e. under Labour. |
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01 Feb 22 - 05:47 PM (#4134825) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: DaveRo Although the publicity suggests that it's a strict hierarchy - horse riders give way to cyclists - the new rules H1 etc. do not actually say that. They give specific cases, eg - horse riders should give way to cyclists on a 'parallel' crossing - obviously - cyclists should give way to horse riders on a bridleway - sensible An actual hierarchy - as quoted in the OP - is not in the Code. Perhaps it was invented to get the changes noticed. |
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01 Feb 22 - 06:25 PM (#4134830) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw That's right, G-Force, and I'm aware that Beeching was defended by some of his supporters who claimed that he was made the scapegoat. It's true that he proposed a much-improved bus transport sytem, which never happened. However, that doesn't resolve him from blame. He was ruthless and unsentimental and he had no regard for history, and, especially, for the plight that he was proposing to visit on rural areas. It was all about money, money, money. Yes it fell to Wilson's government (for which I don't hold a candle, by the way) to make the cuts. They did resist a number of the recommendations, and when the Heath government got in they wanted to renew the cuts programme. They chickened out. Thatcher wanted to go much further - had she got her way Wales (Labour at the time) and the whole of south-west England (Liberal at the time) would have ended up with no railways at all. She eventually decided that it was politically too risky, so those plans quietly melted away. McMillan and his heartless henchman Beeching started the rot, but for sure they were not the only culprits in that long process which has ended us up with a severely depleted and not very impressive railway system. That's capitalism for you. |
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01 Feb 22 - 08:27 PM (#4134838) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I thought that didn't look right: it's "Macmillan." |
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02 Feb 22 - 08:50 AM (#4134903) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Jon Freeman Surprised me seeing Wales as Labour above but I only think of the corner of N W Wales I lived in and S Wales is another world... Trying to work back with Wiki for the Thatcher era (79-90), I come up with: Anglesey/Ynys Mon: Keith Best (Con) served as MP 79-87 followed by Ieuan Wyn Jones (Plaid) 87-01 Caernarfon: Dafydd Wigley (Plaid) 74-01 Conwy: Wyn Roberts (Con) 70-97 Denbigh (abolished 83): Geriant Morgan (Con) 74-83 West Flintshire/Clwyd North West: Anthony Mayer (Con) 70-92 I’ve not a clue about these things but I’m puzzled at the thought of the Holyhead – London route being considered for scrapping? I could imagine it with the Conwy Valley Line though. |
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02 Feb 22 - 10:03 AM (#4134913) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Thanks, Jon. Sorry for putting you to that work. I was incorrect on both counts. It was late and I haven't been well (I wasn't partying, I promise!) |
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02 Feb 22 - 10:21 AM (#4134914) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Jon Freeman I'd read you had visited hospital in another thread. Hope things clear up for you soon. |
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02 Feb 22 - 01:06 PM (#4134942) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I'm fine now, Jon. I was just struggling to make a feeble excuse. I should have checked! It could be that lots of the industrial seats in South Wales were Labour but I haven't checked. I'll leave it there! |
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02 Feb 22 - 04:32 PM (#4134962) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Nigel Parsons So, the long and the short of it is that the rail cuts were down to Labour. Heath wanted to renew the cuts - but didn't Thatcher wanted to do more, but didn't. It seems that including details of those two is just a smokescreen to hide the fact that Labour did the cuts! Which is probably not what was meant by Backwoodsman's comment: Couldn’t agree more, Dave. The biggest mistake this country ever made was the destruction of the majority of the rail network. And we all know whose handiwork that was, don’t we? |
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02 Feb 22 - 04:41 PM (#4134966) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Bonzo3legs "One new thing is that you are supposed to open your car door from inside with the opposite hand so that you turn more and look behind as you open it." Have the idiots who thought this up never heard of wing mirrors??? |
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02 Feb 22 - 05:17 PM (#4134970) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Mr Red but it now includes pedestrians waiting to cross It was in the highway code in the 60s |
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02 Feb 22 - 05:33 PM (#4134974) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Labour did the cuts, Nigel, but did rein back on many of them. Heath and Thatcher wanted to go much further, but found that it was politically impossible. Just think, Nigel, had Thatcher had a bit more courage, your principality would, by now, be relying on nowt but buses... |
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02 Feb 22 - 05:43 PM (#4134976) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Mr Red How long do we have to wait before the government decides to put money into public transport rather than subsidise the private motorist? They already do. The problems are many. 1) COVID has reduce passenger numbers 2) Brexshit has reduced driver numbers. Yes it has. Reduced timetables to balance the driver v routes are the inevitable cop-out. 3) Less buses, so people need a car to get to work. 4) Buses and cars are wider because people are wider. Less possibility for bus routes. Solution anyone? 5) More cars. Wider cars. Chelsea tractors. All parked where the fuck they want. Reduced bus routes. 6) Bus timetable planners don't use their buses. Poor documentation - confusion reigns, cars are easier. So get a car. 7) Routes change depending on the time of day, and can terminate in a village miles from anywhere. 1 hour to last bus! I use buses, I am time rich, money limited (I ain't poor). But, geeze, if I want to go walking, the car gets me there & back quicker, more time for ambling. And in the summer there is no anxiety with the last bus not arriving, & I can go on after that time. Cities are well served with public transport. Notso in rural areas. No I don't have solutions. Unless the wider public deign to tolerate the cost and it is measured in £s, as well as acceptance of less convenience. I well remember being gobsmacked at people taking taxis to do the weekly shopping, but even with a convenient rural bus would you want to carry 6 heavily loaded bags? Or shop 6 times? |
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02 Feb 22 - 06:08 PM (#4134979) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Good ruminations there, Mr Red. As a thoroughly rural inhabitant these last 35 years (we raised a glass tonight as it was the 35th anniversary of our getting the keys to our house), I can tell you that I either drive into Bude (four miles away along the A39) to do my shopping, or I get a taxi. Last time I used a taxi (two years ago so that I could get a bit pissed in a restaurant without worrying about it), the fee was fifteen quid each way. There is absolutely no convenient rural bus. And it's a ten-minute walk, three quarters of a mile, up a farm lane before a bus is even remotely possible. Petrol 1.49.99 per litre, Diesel £1.55.99 per litre. |
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03 Feb 22 - 02:48 AM (#4135020) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Would you keep politics to the right thread please. Ta :-) Buses between Skipton and Keigjley are great and we live smack between the two. I know we are lucky though. I can only go off what I read about the new rules. What I remember of the Highway Code in 1970 when I passed my motorcycle test was you had to give way to pedestrians already on the crossing or junction but it was a long time ago, As a pedestrian prior to that I distinctly remember putting one foot on the road in order to be on the crossing or junction to force drivers to stop. Of course then, as now, lots ignored you anyway :-( Bus drivers were always good though :-) |
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03 Feb 22 - 04:51 AM (#4135031) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Doug Chadwick Have the idiots who thought this up never heard of wing mirrors??? My car has a button to fold in the wing mirrors but it only works with the ignition switched on, i.e. before I have exited the car. For me, the "Dutch reach" is absolutely essential. Bus drivers were always good though That might depend on where you were. When I first started driving, in Liverpool in the '70s, if I was waiting to exit a side road into slow moving traffic, I would get ready if I saw a bus as the driver was likely to let me out. When I moved to Manchester, I would check that I wasn't over the give-way line for fear of the bus taking my bumper off. I seem to remember far more car horns in the Manchester rush hour than in Liverpool (although not nearly as many as London, at that time). DC |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:23 AM (#4135032) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw From the mid-80s to the mid-90s I cycled to and from work every day. For several years that was a 14-mile round trip which included a two-mile stretch of the North Circular near Walthamstow. After that it was a 22-mile round trip on very rural roads in Cornwall and Devon. I never wore Lycra. I never encountered any of the bad blood between motorists and cyclists that I hear about today, in spite of the fact that my London commute invariably involved a lot of weaving in traffic jams. In all that time I had just two negative encounters, one with a chap who did a stupid overtake on a narrow country lane (I shouted at him, he heard, he stopped and we had a barney...) and one with a bus who squeezed me into the gutter as he overtook. I reported him to the police, who, commendably, followed it up with me and the bus company. No witnesses, of course. |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:32 AM (#4135033) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou I'm going to have to start driving again in my little Fiesta (husband has moved out and taken his own car). The roads are mainly narrow lanes in my part of Norfolk, and overtaking is already a bit of a nightmare (tractors, farm machinery, combines etc). Obviously cyclists should be protected, but the practicalities are a bit tricky. There was a very nasty accident quite close by a couple of days ago, caused by reckless overtaking (four vehicles involved, one casualty critically ill in hospital). Wish me luck! |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:51 AM (#4135039) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator My worst experience as a cyclist when I was 16 where white van 'sandwiched me between the side of his van and a row of parked cars, so I agree with the new rule that cyclists should give themselves far more clearance so if an idiot in a white van tries to overtake too close, there is room to manoeuvre on the left hand side. The only plus was that I got away with miniscule damage to myself and my bike, but the car I was sandwiched against had a dent along the whole of its right hand side, and was possibly written off by its insurer, as the van did not stop, and therefore its insurers culd not be held liable. here is also a good animation that simply explains the turn left rule - pedestrians and cycles going straight on at the junction have priority to cycles and motor vehicles turning. End off. |
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03 Feb 22 - 12:02 PM (#4135072) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Husband moved out, Sen? I hope that is not how it sounds! :-( |
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03 Feb 22 - 12:17 PM (#4135076) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I cycled thousands of miles a year for over ten years (6000 miles in 1993 alone), and my golden rule was that I owned the lane I was in. I decided when it was safe for someone to overtake (most of the time it was, I'd make room and I would never pig-headedly hold anyone up unnecessarily). It isn't safe for cyclists to ride in the gutter. There are grids and all kinds of debris and there is no escape room. When cycling uphill on a main road, if a line builds up behind you, stop and let them pass. |
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03 Feb 22 - 01:01 PM (#4135079) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Yes, I'm afraid he has Dave. Gone to live in another Breckland town. I'm very sad, but he's free to do as he wishes. |
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03 Feb 22 - 02:05 PM (#4135086) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Very sorry to hear that, Sen. Hope you’ll be feeling better soon. All good thoughts. |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:06 PM (#4135101) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Thank you Backwoodsman. Luckily I have many lovely neighbours here in the village and feel safe. 'Onwards and upwards' as they say! |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:30 PM (#4135102) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Awwww :-( So sorry to hear that Eliza. PM me if you feel like it. |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:38 PM (#4135104) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Don’t forget you have friends here too, Eliza. Take care, and be safe dear lady. |
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03 Feb 22 - 05:53 PM (#4135107) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Mr Red When I walk rural roads I step onto the verge as cars approach, it is courtesy for the vehicles, and safety for me. It is actually safer to do that if there is sufficient verge than look behind for other cars. The statistics run to about 50% thank you on narrow roads, and 10-20% on fast roads. But the law has always said "Give way to pedestrians at all times". And the hierarchy of: people, cyclists, (horses?), mobility vehicles, motorbikes etc has also been around a long time. But in reality it is a jungle out there. |
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04 Feb 22 - 03:30 AM (#4135154) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Thank you for the good wishes everyone. A neighbour has already had problems with passing cyclists on our narrow country lanes. (She has a little fruit-and-veg delivery business in her small car, and travels all over Breckland several times a week) She feels that the cyclists now have a rather arrogant attitude, and ride three/four abreast, so overtaking is nigh on impossible. They have a smug expression and seem to be delighted to obstruct the motorists legally! This has put me off a bit from starting to drive again, but I will soon. |
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04 Feb 22 - 07:44 AM (#4135179) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Tattie Bogle Sorry to hear of your situation, Senofou. Hope your good friends and neighbours will look after you well. |
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04 Feb 22 - 09:11 AM (#4135230) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Howard Jones Most of the new rules were already good practice and anyway common sense, but the new Highway Code has drawn more attention to them. Some do concern me though. In my car, the Dutch Reach doesn't work as my rear view is obstructed by the door pillar, whereas the mirrors give a good view. The rule about bikes going straight at a junction having priority is badly thought out. Of course the common situation where a car passes a cyclist and then cuts them off should be avoided, but this could encourage bikes to undertake, which is inevitably dangerous. The rule about giving way to pedestrians about to cross at a junction is also badly thought out. If I'm a pedestrian I want cars to be out of the way before I cross, especially as this doesn't give me priority over cars coming the other way. As a driver, I don't want to be rear-ended by the car behind, or overtaken by an impatient idiot, because I've had to stop for a pedestrian. To add to the uncertainty, the rule says "should" rather than "must", so no one can be sure what will happen. I can imagine a cross-roads busy with both vehicles and pedestrians becoming completely seized up as all the vehicles turning left from all four roads have to give way to the streams of pedestrians. |
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04 Feb 22 - 10:31 AM (#4135241) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw If I'm turning left off a main road and I spot a pedestrian waiting to cross the side road, it may not be safe for me to stop because it would represent an unexpected or capricious manoeuvre to vehicles behind. Generally, I nearly always let pedestrians cross, no matter what the rules are. It's sometimes just a question of, er, common sense... |
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04 Feb 22 - 03:52 PM (#4135272) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Bonzo3legs Crikey I'm agreeing with you again Steve!! |
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05 Feb 22 - 12:55 PM (#4135349) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Just saw this on FarceBook (button it, Steve!). Something I hadn’t thought of (and I suspect not many other sighted people have, either)… ”With regards to the new road rules about waiting for pedestrians to cross, I have this from a lady pointing out something I wouldn’t have thought of…… Can I please point out that those of us working Assistance Dogs and Guide dogs have our dogs trained to wait at kerbs until NO cars are present. Our dogs won't cross with us until cars drive on past. This new rule means drivers will stop and try to wave us across. Please be aware we won't cross the road and you will only hold us up. Best to drive on past if u see a vested working dog knowing this is more helpful to us. Thank you. Any more info feel free to check out my Assistance Dog Milly-Bears Instagram @sarahandpinkdog.” |
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05 Feb 22 - 01:18 PM (#4135355) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Let common sense prevail. |
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05 Feb 22 - 01:22 PM (#4135357) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman ”Let common sense prevail. Meaning...what, precisely? |
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05 Feb 22 - 01:55 PM (#4135362) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Drive with kindness and courtesy and do more then the rules at times but let circumstances dictate. And don't collect as many bloody speeding points as I have... |
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05 Feb 22 - 02:24 PM (#4135367) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman I agree with all of that, but the point of my post was that a guide/assistance dog will NOT move or allow it’s human to move if there’s a vehicle present and, being unable to see the vehicle, the dog’s handler doesn’t necessarily know what threat the dog has perceived. Mrs Backwoodsperson knows a person who is seriously visually impaired and has a guide-dog, and they have confirmed the difficulty the new rule presents to the guide-dog user. But would the average driver know how to deal with this situation (FWIW, I’m quite conflicted over what action I would take). So my question would be what, in this situation, would ‘common sense’ consist of? |
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05 Feb 22 - 04:48 PM (#4135384) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Bonzo3legs You mean blind? |
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05 Feb 22 - 06:10 PM (#4135404) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman If I’d meant ‘blind’, I’d have said ‘blind’ Bonz. Here, read this and educate yourself… |
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05 Feb 22 - 08:12 PM (#4135418) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Jaysus. Just slow down, assess what's going on, always give whoever's on the pavement the benefit and proceed accordingly. My home town is a retirement area, replete with elderly and disabled people and narrow, busy streets. I may be a speed merchant on the A30 dual and the M5, but I know how to behave in town. If I see a child, a lady with a pram or pushchair, a mobility scooter, an elderly person, or just anybody really, I stop and let them go. If I see a person with a guide dog I can work out what to do. None of this ever makes me get anywhere any slower. And I'll tell you what: I get smiled at far more often than I do on this bloody website! It's worth it just for that, and, one day, it'll be me at the mercy of the cars... |
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06 Feb 22 - 01:33 AM (#4135433) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman ”If I see a person with a guide dog I can work out what to do.” So, within the constraints placed by the new rules, precisely what would you do to ‘give whoever's on the pavement the benefit and proceed accordingly’ when the person waiting to cross is blind/visually impaired and unable to see and understand what you’re doing or what signals you might be making, and his/her assistance dog is doing exactly as it was trained to do and refusing to cross the road because of the presence of your vehicle? How would you safely solve the impasse (bearing in mind that the situation may be complicated by there being other traffic around) whilst acting within the restrictions of the new rules? How would you communicate your intentions to a guide-dog, who understands only that he/she must not cross when vehicles are present, and to his/her blind/visually-impaired handler who places his trust, and thus his life, on the dog doing precisely as it was trained to do? Bear in mind that this change in the rules is a genuine concern for guide-dog users, disadvantaged as they are when compared to sighted pedestrians (my wife’s friend has confirmed that it’s so) and that not all drivers are as cautious or considerate as you. |
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06 Feb 22 - 03:50 AM (#4135436) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome If the guide dog wants to wait I am sure if would be acceptable for the driver to proceed slowly and carefully. The object of the new rules is to give pedestrians priority and that includes to option to cross only when they believe it is safe. As a pedestrian I would wait until I was sure anyway. As a driver I would be happy if the pedestrian, or guide dog in this case, let me go first. |
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06 Feb 22 - 04:26 AM (#4135439) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman I had an accident with another cyclist tecently , this idiot overtook me without giving a warning he was there, no shout or bell ring, at that point a weasel ran across the road in front of me so i swerved to avoid it, i turned to my right and knocked the quiet racing cyclist idiot off his bike. i find cyclists who ride two or three abreast inconsiderate, but then some other car drivers are inconsiderate too, particularly those that overtake in dangerous places like bends |
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06 Feb 22 - 05:53 AM (#4135457) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman There’s a very good reason for cyclists riding two or three abreast - it makes them more visible to drivers of motor-vehicles, and therefore less likely to be hit by said motor-vehicles. It’s a well-thought-out safety tactic. |
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06 Feb 22 - 06:05 AM (#4135460) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Harry Rivers As far as I can see, the trouble with these "new rules" is that no one seemed inclined to enforce the old ones so what hope is there of these new ones making any difference at all. The only hierarchy of the road seems to be one of bullying: Cyclists bully pedestrians Car drivers bully cyclists and pedestrians Lorry drivers bully car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. As for common sense, I'm not sure the human species is capable of it. When I learned to drive, over 45 years ago, my instructor told me the number one rule of the road is: Everyone out there is an idiot - expect them to behave as such. It has served me well. In Carlisle, the main drag for pubs and clubs, Botchergate, is closed to all traffic on Friday and Saturday nights. Every other hour, of every of the day, cyclists, car drivers and van/lorry drivers seem to be allowed to drive on the pavements. Pedestrians only get protection if they're pissed. Also, I'd be interested know, when did the zig-zags at pedestrian crossings become "Designated parking for Greggs"? Has it been codified in the "new rules"? Rant over - back to 'lurking'! |
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06 Feb 22 - 06:31 AM (#4135471) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I'm mostly with Harry there. I don't think most people are going to dash out to get a Highway Code or peruse it online. Rules are fine until there are so many that you can't remember 'em. And all those diagrams that make the streets and the vehicles look so regular and lovely... The last thing I think of when I'm a pedestrian is what the rules are. It takes two to tango... I know I've railed against "common sense" before, but I still think it's valid here. Keep the rules lurking but wrap them up in courtesy, consideration, kindness and caution, then we'll all be OK. But if you see a beaten-up silver Ford Focus bombing along the M5 20mph too fast, it's probably me. I have the points to prove it... |
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06 Feb 22 - 08:53 AM (#4135488) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman what makes cyclists more visible is hi vis jackets and good cycle lights. there is notning wrong with riding two abreast if the cyclist then moves in to allow cars to overtake when overtaking is sensible, cycling two abreast is, when there are cars behind, who clearly want to overtake when it is safe to do so, ,is a tactic that is not safe and only winds up car drivers even more, if cylists have the courtesy to move in, car drivers in my experience respond by allowing them more room ,courtesy encourages courtesy in others |
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06 Feb 22 - 01:06 PM (#4135549) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman I prefer to demur to the judgment of the professionals - people who actually understand and know what they’re talking about… https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/why-do-cyclists-ride-side-by-side-306024 |
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06 Feb 22 - 02:21 PM (#4135571) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman YOU MISSED MY POINT. quote what makes cyclists more visible is hi vis jackets and good cycle lights. there is notning wrong with riding two abreast if the cyclist then moves in to allow cars to overtake when overtaking is sensible, cycling two abreast is, when there are cars behind, who clearly want to overtake when it is safe to do so, 1.there is nothing wrong with riding two abreast if the cyclist then moves in to allow cars to overtake when overtaking is sensible. 2- it is about moving in to allow cars to overtake when it is sensible to do so.. 3, the problem is not cyclists riding two abreats so oncoming traffic can see them , it is WHAT THEY DO NEXT... DO THEY SHOW COURTESY.and pull in to allow car drivers to overtake some do [theyare the courteous ones some do not. |
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06 Feb 22 - 02:40 PM (#4135575) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman Courtesy, is a two way phenomenon, i have found if you are courteous on the roads generally people are courteous back, if you are aggressive the respons, is often a return of aggression. Backwoodsman, this is an important philosophy, think about it, before you write about professionals |
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06 Feb 22 - 02:56 PM (#4135578) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Mr Red Courtesy, is a two way phenomenon, i have found if you are courteous on the roads generally people are courteous back, "generally" is not helpful. The aggressive drivers just take advantage. It is how accidents happen. Eventually two aggressive drivers meet. As Harry says, treat 'em all as if............ You don't have to get your revenge in - first. |
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06 Feb 22 - 03:21 PM (#4135582) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: robomatic As far as driving goes, I think of courtesy as a necessity, not an option. When I was young I 'thought as a child'. I let my emotions make driving decisions. I thought I could "teach them a lesson.". I haven't been young for some time now, but I had to actually make a vow that I would not give 'the finger' under any conditions. Since I feel I have to respond in some way, when someone gives me the finger I try to smile and wave. I decided a long time ago the only lessons to be learned would be by me. I have been a biker and I have been a motorcyclist. If I was now I'd be even more careful than ever before since everyone is on the phone or worse. And by now I've known several fine people who've died on two wheels. And even witnessed it happen right in front of me. |
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06 Feb 22 - 03:45 PM (#4135590) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman ”YOU MISSED MY POINT. quote” 1) There’s absolutely no reason for you to SHOUT at me - I haven’t SHOUTED at you, I’m not deaf, and SHOUTING in no way adds any weight to the point you’re trying to make. 2) I didn’t miss your point at all, I simply linked to an article in ‘Cycling Weekly - the UK’s leading cycling journal - in which several reasons are given by expert cyclists why, in most circumstances, it is safer for cyclists in a group to remain two abreast - safer for both the cyclists and the motorist wishing to overtake - and acknowledges the rarer occasions when dropping back to single file makes more sense. Are you sure it’s not you who has ‘missed the point’? ”what makes cyclists more visible is hi vis jackets and good cycle lights.” I made no comment on that point because I don’t dispute it, it makes perfect sense. ”there is notning wrong with riding two abreast if the cyclist then moves in to allow cars to overtake when overtaking is sensible, cycling two abreast is, when there are cars behind, who clearly want to overtake when it is safe to do so, 1.there is nothing wrong with riding two abreast if the cyclist then moves in to allow cars to overtake when overtaking is sensible. 2- it is about moving in to allow cars to overtake when it is sensible to do so.. 3, the problem is not cyclists riding two abreats so oncoming traffic can see them , it is WHAT THEY DO NEXT... DO THEY SHOW COURTESY.and pull in to allow car drivers to overtake some do [theyare the courteous ones some do not.” 1) I refer you to my point (2) above, and to the piece I linked to which explains in detail why, in most circumstances, it is safer for both the cyclists and the motorists when the cyclists continue to cycle two abreast. It makes perfect sense, and I recommend you to take the trouble to read it. 2) You resorted to SHOUTING once again. I repeat - there is no need to SHOUT, I’m not deaf, I’m far from stupid, and SHOUTING adds no weight to your arguments whatsoever. Have a nice evening. |
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06 Feb 22 - 04:02 PM (#4135596) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman I did read it and it misses my point which yet again i will illustrate with the following comment... please read it quote from... highway code When tractors and other slow moving vehicles don't pull over when they have the chance to do so, in order to let traffic past, they can cause obstructions and long tailbacks, and they may be committing offence.” The Highway Code asks slow moving vehicles to pull in when safe to allow traffic to pass." cyclista are slow moving vehicles, they are also vulnerable, if they show courtesy to cars and take the advice of the highway code, they are likely to be shown more courtesy I happen to know a cyclist who has told me that he would never move over for cars quote "basically they can fuck off", that attitude is against the spirit of the highway code and only fuels aggression, it is a stupid attitude because cyclists are vulnerable. the point is not about cyclists driving in couples for safety it is about what they do as a slow moving vehicle when trafdfic piles up behind them, that is when they should move over, That is what i do when i am cycling.WHEN TWO ABREAST i move over in the spirit of the highway code |
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06 Feb 22 - 04:16 PM (#4135600) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Did you read to the end of the linked article? You seem to have missed this piece… “HOW CYCLISTS LOOK OUT FOR DRIVERS With all that, it is still important that cyclists are considerate of other road users and adjust their riding appropriately. When a car is behind that could get past if riders are in single file, but not when riding two abreast, then riders at the back of the group should shout "car up" which will then alert the other riders, who should move into single file when it is safe for the car to pass. As a final point, it's worth remembering that the vast majority of cyclists also drive a car, so understand why being stuck behind a group of cyclists might be frustrating. A group of cyclists is much more likely to quickly move out of the way and signal that it's clear to pass when a motorist is sitting patiently behind rather than revving the engine and sounding the horn.” That’s my last response, I’ve given you the views of expert/professional cyclists which make absolute sense. Whether you choose to accept or reject their opinions is up to you, but I’m not inclined to be provoked into getting involved in one of your tiresome, endless, pointless arguments. |
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06 Feb 22 - 04:28 PM (#4135602) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman When tractors and other slow moving vehicles don't pull over when they have the chance to do so, in order to let traffic past, they can cause obstructions and long tailbacks, and they may be committing offence.” The Highway Code asks slow moving vehicles to pull in when safe to allow traffic to pass." cyclists are slow moving vehicles, quote Backwoodsman. "but I’m not inclined to be provoked into getting involved in one of your tiresome, endless, pointless arguments." The above is an example of your trolling and flaming. |
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06 Feb 22 - 06:07 PM (#4135615) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Charmion's brother Andrew What is a "parallel crossing?" It is not a term in use in Ontario. |
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06 Feb 22 - 06:31 PM (#4135620) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Nigel Parsons Backwoodsman: Did you read to the end of the linked article? You seem to have missed this piece… “HOW CYCLISTS LOOK OUT FOR DRIVERS I searched for that in the 'Highway Code', and found very little. |
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07 Feb 22 - 12:03 AM (#4135663) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman I’m not really surprised by that, Nigel. The piece I quoted being from an article in a periodical written by, and for, members of the cycling fraternity, I’m sure it’s advice based on serious cyclists’ experience and good old-fashioned common sense. |
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07 Feb 22 - 02:29 AM (#4135666) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman ”What is a "parallel crossing?" It is not a term in use in Ontario.” I don’t recall seeing any British-style crossings during my several visits to Ontario (Oakville, Burlington, Tronno, Hamilton, Stratford, et al). It’s explained here… |
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07 Feb 22 - 02:36 AM (#4135667) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman And I think it’s worth saying that motorists’ attitudes to pedestrians are very different in Canada to our own here in the UK - on my first visit to Canada, back in 2005, I was astonished to find that drivers routinely and courteously pull up to allow pedestrians to cross the road. The courtesy of Canadian drivers puts most UK drivers to shame IMHO. |
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07 Feb 22 - 03:45 AM (#4135668) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou My good friends-across-the-road took me out yesterday to the supermarket in Fakenham, and there were a number of agricultural vehicles trundling along slowly. They are indeed supposed to pull in frequently, to allow traffic to pass, but of course they didn't. We spent a lot of time plodding along behind a huge cattle truck, then two tractors in procession, a huge cylinder of 'ferrloiser' being towed by another tractor and several other obstacles. I'm so scared to restart my driving and having to deal with these situations. Overtaking them on narrow country roads with many bends is terrifying. Should I boi a boik? (Sorry about this Norfolkspeak - I pick it up from my friends after being in their company) |
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07 Feb 22 - 03:48 AM (#4135669) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman ha ha your quote is debatable, experienced drivers can spot a single file of 4 cyclists as easily as two pairs , i have been driving since 1968, further more if cyclists are in pairs they are more likely to be engrossed in conversation than if they are in single file, if they are in conversation they are less likely to be paying attention to road drivers, so being safer is open to debate, wearing high vis jackets and having good lighting and pasying attention and courtesy to other road users including pedestrians is what ensures their safety not driving in pairs. i notice that motorcyclists drive in single file here in ireland. |
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07 Feb 22 - 04:01 AM (#4135671) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman Senoutou , just carry on driving with caution and courtesy for others, you have experience that is important. |
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07 Feb 22 - 10:38 AM (#4135703) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Tattie Bogle Cyclists are not always "slow moving vehicles" - at least, around here they are not! Emerging from our side street on to an A road in my car, carefully keeping just on the 30 mph limit, there's a downhill stretch where speeding cyclists often overtake or "undertake" cars. At their own risk, as the road is also riddled with potholes: one such cyclist hit one and flew through the air, eventually landing up on the pavement on the opposite side of the road! Luckily no traffic coming the other way as he hurtled across. |
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07 Feb 22 - 10:46 AM (#4135707) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome It used to be a good afternoons entertainment to sit at the bottom of the very steep Winnat's Pass in Castleton and watch the high speed cyclists panic when they spotted the cattle grid at the end :-D |
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07 Feb 22 - 10:52 AM (#4135708) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Been there (many, many times!), done that, Dave! |
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08 Feb 22 - 04:12 AM (#4135802) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: BobL My own experience was that on a bike, whether push- or motor-, I was a lot more aware of what was going on around me than when I progressed to being shut in a metal box (which might have been behind my preference for soft-tops). Over the years I discovered several occasions when one might have to drive slowly, such as searching for something along the route or trying to get to the next filling station with the electric petrol pump rattling ominously as it starts to pump air. Eventually, I came to regard driving as a team activity - it's not you versus the other road users, it's you and them together, versus the clock. And the clock is not in a hurry. |
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10 Feb 22 - 06:12 PM (#4136136) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Tunesmith It's interesting about the new rule about giving way to pedestrians when turning at a junction because nobody took any notice of the old rule about giving way to pedestrians who were already crossing the road. |
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12 Feb 22 - 05:46 AM (#4136303) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Well, yesterday I 'pulled up my big girl's pants', got into my little Fiesta and drove the thirteen miles over to the supermarket. Surprisingly, the 'knack' had never left me, and it all seemed to be fairly straightforward. No cyclists about (a working day) and very few cars on the road. Parking was trouble-free, and I got back to my village with the groceries feeling very triumphant! Neighbour made me a celebratory cup of tea, and I now feel I can do this every week. |
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12 Feb 22 - 05:49 AM (#4136304) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman Congratulations, Sen! |
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12 Feb 22 - 05:54 AM (#4136306) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Hee hee thank you Backwoodsman! I suppose it's like riding a bike, roller-skating or swimming, one never really loses the knack. I quite agree that one must give cyclists, pedestrians, horses etc a wide berth when overtaking - seems blooming obvious to me! My father used to say that one drives according to ones character - aggressive and pushy, timid and hesitant, devil-may-care etc. and I think he was right. I even got my Fiesta back into my garage (it's rather a narrow doorway!) Another celebratory crumpet later I think! |
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13 Feb 22 - 04:24 PM (#4136503) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome 98... |
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13 Feb 22 - 06:29 PM (#4136517) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator The new rules (Highway Code)has a number of serious ommissio0ns which put the lives of pedestrians in danger. I would add: (1) Pedestrians who are using the pavement are personally responsible for ensuring their own safety and must always ensure that they provide adequate space to ensure that cyclists and electric scooter riders illegally riding on the pavement are not inconvenienced. (2) There is no obligation for motorists and cyclists to stop at pedestrians controlled crossings as they do not risk collision with another vehicle. Pedestrians should wait for all oncoming traffic to stop before attempting to cross the road, and pedestrians should never cross when traffic has stopped in case cyclists and electric scooter users decide to pass stopped vehicles and jump the lights. (3) Motor cycles and moped delivering fast food have priority to park on the pavement while waiting for next deliveries over pedestrians walking on the pavement. If pedestrians are forced to walk in the road, they have right of way over motor vehicles using the road. Probably many more omissions but these are all I can think of for the moment. |
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13 Feb 22 - 07:29 PM (#4136522) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw The last time I looked at a Highway Code properly was when I was seventeen and five months old, in the waiting room waiting for the examiner to call me in. It was in Bury, a week before Christmas, and it was sleeting, and I did my emergency stop on a cobbled back street. That was fifty-three years ago (I passed first time). Driving is a learning curve and a gig unto itself and it can't be expressed in a theoretical little book full of neat diagrams which show roads and cars as they are not. I know the rules of the road and I get bloody annoyed with many a driver, but I know that consideration to other road and footpath users is the name of the game and costs nothing. The most important thing is to pay attention to what you're doing behind the wheel as though it is the very first time you got to drive without your L plates on. |
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14 Feb 22 - 03:32 AM (#4136554) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: BobL I've said it before and will say it again: motorists, if you get the chance to go on an IAM Advanced Driving course, take it. Even if you don't get as far as taking the test, some of the good habits should nevertheless stick if you let them. At least, that's what I like to think happened in my case. |
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14 Feb 22 - 05:13 AM (#4136560) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator My little rant was directed at people who deliberately drive/cycle/scoot dangerously without any consideration for anyone except themselves. I know people make mistakes or let their attention slip for a moment. |
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16 Feb 22 - 03:37 AM (#4136840) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome Don't get me going on selfish attitudes, SPB! There is the entitled brigade in all camps, there is the "what I'm doing is more important" crew and, sadly, there are even pedestrians (usually teenage girls but there are others) who's world comprises entirely of themselves and their mobile phones. |
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16 Feb 22 - 04:30 AM (#4136845) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou My lovely neighbour (the shepherdess/vet nurse) has a mare called Eleisha. She was riding her along our narrow village lanes one morning when a minibus full of secondary school pupils overtook her, with merely a few centimetres to spare. The pupils shouted and jeered through the open windows and the mare tried to bolt. Luckily, my neighbour is a brilliant rider and managed to get Eleisha under control. She complained later to the school, and on our village Facebook. I hope this doesn't happen again! |
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16 Feb 22 - 05:27 AM (#4136848) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: G-Force I don't care who has right of way, if there's a 20-ton lorry coming I'm not going to walk out in front of it. |
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16 Feb 22 - 05:58 AM (#4136850) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou I think it all boils down to the words 'consideration' and 'common sense'. These are qualities some people don't possess, which probably causes most accidents on the roads. |
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17 Feb 22 - 03:09 AM (#4136937) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: BobL Absolutely Sen. Anyone who thinks that another road user shouldn't be on the road, shouldn't be on the road. |
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17 Feb 22 - 03:30 AM (#4136940) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator Ae you suggesting that pedestrians should continually look behind them for cyclists and electric scooter riders and ensure that there is room for them to bomb past at all times, or stop using the pavement? What is the betting if you are hit and injured walking along the pavement the insurance companies will refuse to insure them so that the injured party can make a claim against the iunsurance company as soon as they are insured. |
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17 Feb 22 - 04:04 AM (#4136945) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Well, I managed a second trip over to Fakenham yesterday (I thought I'd avoid Storm Eunice which is due tomorrow) and it went quite well, apart from some twit who tailgated me a little too closely. I was doing the speed limit of 50mph (speed signs visible all along that part of the route). I wonder what speed he'd have preferred me to do? 80? 90? And would he have paid my fine? I am a little concerned about these electric scooters using the pavements. There are so many elderly folk in this part of Norfolk, and scooters whizzing along can be a hazard for them. But, being fair, a scooter out in the road is in danger too. There is an added hazard round here of cars parking actually on the pavement. Breaking the law I think, but no Police around. Prams, mobility scooters etc have to move on to the road to avoid them. We should all be driving little horse-drawn carts, like the one my neighbour used to drive when she delivered farm milk in the fifties! |
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17 Feb 22 - 07:19 AM (#4136962) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Now some of you guys need to see what it's like living in a seaside retirement area: Pulling out without looking Pulling out in front of you when there is no other traffic on the road then driving extremely slowly Terrible positioning when turning right, causing a huge queue to form behind Failing to notice the lights changing at road works then driving through them at snail's pace Almost completely stopping even on the very gentlest of road humps Crawling along the coast road at 15mph "to enjoy the scenery" Not signalling Not cancelling signalling Not having a clue about what you do at roundabouts (we have a particular mini-roundabout which gets more conversations going than the weather, usually due to total traffic paralysis) Taking up three parking spaces ("I can't risk getting boxed in") Not putting your bloody car between the white lines in car parks Not putting your car at the end of the parking bay (an offence that deserves no less than slow and painful testicle removal) Feel free to suggest additions. One last thing. All towed caravans should be taxed at £10,000 per month and motor homes should be allowed on the road between the hours of 2am and 4am only, and should only ever be parked deep inside dense pine forests at least one mile along a dirt track from the main road. |
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17 Feb 22 - 07:41 AM (#4136967) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman You forgot… 1) Driving with front and/or rear fog lights on when visibility is not significantly reduced by thick fog. Especially annoying at night. 2) Driving at night at a steady 40mph on roads which are subject to, and suitable for driving at up to, the National 60mph limit, apparently oblivious to the queued traffic piling up behind you. On the topic of speed humps, we have a lot in my locality which are high and steep enough to cause damage to cars if approached at anything more than walking pace - on one in my road I broke a front spring on my Golf doing no more than 15mph and a neighbour cracked his van’s sump. I therefore reserve the right to slow down to a crawl… ;-) |
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17 Feb 22 - 07:51 AM (#4136975) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Ha ha Steve, I've seen all those types of bad driving in Norfolk, especially those who pull out onto the main road from a side road without even looking. And those 'oldies' who dawdle along 'admiring the view' (or just unaware) at a silly, slow pace on a 50 or 60mph road, provoking overtaking (often on dangerous bends) by the frustrated people behind them. I was a very good, positive driver for decades ( completely clean Driving Licence, and not even a prang) until I stopped taking the wheel, letting my (ex) husband do the driving. Now that he's left me, I absolutely must bite the bullet and pull up my big girl's pants! |
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17 Feb 22 - 09:50 AM (#4136980) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw The biggest irritation round here is tractors. In the good old days, when farmers actually did some work, you knew that the tractor wouldn't be in front of you for long as the farmer was just carting stuff from one field to another. These days it's mostly hired contractors and they can be going for mile after mile in front of you. The majority are either oblivious to the jam forming behind them or actually enjoying the chaos they're creating. Oh, and then you can be the second car behind the tractor, but the car in front of you won't take a punt to overtake. You're stuck, because while you could get past just the tractor, there's no way you can get past the two of 'em. B*ast*ards, the lot of em... And don't get me started on tractors with no number plates spewing shit on the road behind them, no sidelights or brake lights and those two powerful headlights, undippable and very close to each other... God, I love this... |
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17 Feb 22 - 10:35 AM (#4136984) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman You just described rural Lincolnshire driving, Steve. The only thing you missed out was the millions of seemingly bottomless pot-holes! :-( |
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17 Feb 22 - 10:37 AM (#4136985) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: G-Force Talking of dipped headlights, I hate the old (and I'm 73) idiots who dawdle along at night on dipped lights even when there's no traffic in front of them or coming the other way, so you can't see to overtake them. Put your mainbeam on! |
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17 Feb 22 - 10:45 AM (#4136987) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou And during harvest time, the gigantic 'comboin arrrvesters' trundling along cause no end of difficulties. They consist of the main vehicle, followed by the detached rotary blades pointing forward. They're contractors too, so they travel from one end of Norfolk to another. I do adore living in the countryside, but there are some drawbacks, especially now that I absolutely must drive myself about. And our lanes are quite narrow. |
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17 Feb 22 - 11:24 AM (#4136994) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: The Sandman I do adore living in the countryside, but there are some drawbacks in ireland, I met one to day a... Cork City, Langer. he said, so why are you not walking down that lane, you cant just stop and give up, so i replied, i will walk where i like. so he said, where are you from with an accent like that,Germany? I replied, i will walk where i like, when i like, but since you ask my partner has not got suitable boots. he replied well you and your type had better not stay here in g.....n |
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17 Feb 22 - 05:05 PM (#4137028) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Dave the Gnome ??? |
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17 Feb 22 - 06:01 PM (#4137035) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I'm certain that some people round here wear out their brake linings within a day. You get behind these idiots and their brake lights flicker on about forty times a minute. There are people who brake every single time they see a vehicle coming in the opposite direction. We have a long, gentle hill going down into Bude. I've been behind people who are on the brake pedal for the whole length of that hill. And anyone who has to brake when they are driving uphill approaching a bend should be banned for life. And as for middle lane hogs... |
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17 Feb 22 - 08:28 PM (#4137060) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw So the old boy in front of me is turning left into the little country lane, and so am I. But oh, he's not sure where he's going - so what does he do? He stops as soon as he's got round the corner and I'm stranded behind him with the arse-end of my car sticking out into the main road... Thank God for horns, flashing headlights and expletives... |
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18 Feb 22 - 06:42 PM (#4137104) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator Stopping just round corners?...... Sounds a bit like those who stand at the top of escalators (not) making up their mind where they are going. |
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18 Feb 22 - 07:12 PM (#4137108) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Exactly! And in shop entrances. If you're completely unaware of who's around you, you are an amoeba, not a human being.... |
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18 Feb 22 - 07:37 PM (#4137115) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Sandra in Sydney here in the Land of Oz, many of our drivers do the same, & drivers need more than 100% concentration. I was reminded of this song video DRIVING IN THE MIDDLE LANE by Harvey Andrews I spend far more time in the car than on stage. This is a road rage controller. Learn the chorus and sing it next time you get behind one of these… it helps the blood pressure. I'm driving in the middle lane Driving in the middle lane Not too fast, not too slow That's the way I like to go I never use the inside lane Never use the inside lane You can flash, you can toot, I don't give a hoot I'm staying in the middle lane You may see me as a pest You don't think I've passed my test But I do what I do best Brain in neutral, mind at rest Sometimes drivers get too close Sometimes they get bellicose Shake their fists, get quite verbose Me, I just stay comatose So if you should see ahead That middle lane hog that you dread Don't you wish that moron dead It could be me, so join instead And we can have a convoy! Imagine, everybody driving in the middle lane No one on the inside lane No one on the outside lane Everybody in the middle lane Going back mile after mile after mile That's my idea of heaven Especially when I'm towing my caravan from The Gift, released January 1, 2001 sandra (who drove for 3 years, then sold her car in 1978, bought a trolley & became a public transport user) |
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18 Feb 22 - 07:57 PM (#4137119) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Uptick for that, Sandra. So brilliant, so infuriating! |
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18 Feb 22 - 09:25 PM (#4137132) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Sandra in Sydney When I'm being driven about by friends or bus drivers, I'm often mentally singing ... driving in the middle lane, driving in the middle lane, Not too fast, not too slow ... |
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18 Feb 22 - 09:29 PM (#4137133) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Sandra in Sydney fast trigger finger when I was driving in the 70s I once passed some "oldies out for an airing" at less than the 35mph speed limit. I am their age now ... sandra |
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19 Feb 22 - 02:46 AM (#4137145) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou When I did Prison Visiting, I often had to navigate my way around the M25 (a motorway that circles London). I always tried to stay in the inside lane (which apparently you're supposed to do unless overtaking) but every few minutes, traffic was joining the motorway from the left, including large lorries, so everyone had to shift over to the middle lane to allow them to enter. But it was tricky - the people already in the middle often refuse to budge over, and there was often a bit of a tussle. At 70mph, that's rather dodgy! I can't imagine doing those trips nowadays. |
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19 Feb 22 - 06:05 AM (#4137160) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw Just avoiding frequent lane-switching like that is not necessarily middle lane-hogging. If it's dead busy it's OK to stay for longer in the middle as long as you are not causing a balls-up behind you. As soon as it's clear in front, then you should retreat to the inside. The best motorway "rule" is to drive so that there's lots of space all around. No tailgating (unless it's Mr Red in front of you, in which case drive six inches from his bumper and honk and flash like crazy - I haven't forgotten what he said about tailgaters a few years ago!), no bunching, no lane-hopping, etc., and falling asleep is not an option! |
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19 Feb 22 - 07:04 AM (#4137167) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou I'm just so thankful that there isn't a single motorway in Norfolk. Hurray! |
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19 Feb 22 - 08:56 AM (#4137174) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: G-Force People who drive wearing a hat. Especially a flat cap. Dire warning. |
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20 Feb 22 - 03:55 AM (#4137255) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: BobL I inadvertently discovered one way of dealing with tailgaters, back in the days when I was honing my engineering skills on a series of geriatric Minis. A perennial problem with the sideways engine was oil surge: on right-hand bends, the oil would slosh to the end away from the oil pump, and if it was below the recommended level (not unknown in old cars) you lost oil pressure. On this particular occasion I went round a sharp right-hander and the oil light came on. No problem: shove her in neutral, switch off, coast for a few seconds, switch on again and bump start. This last resulted in a short sharp deceleration - without brake lights - before the engine fired and normal operation was resumed. The driver behind backed off rather quickly. |
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20 Feb 22 - 05:18 AM (#4137263) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I make every effort to let tailgaters get past me. It's selfish I know, as they then tailgate the next car in front. It's amazing how often you get tailgated when there's absolutely nothing you can do to speed up, as with being in a line of traffic for example. Bellends. |
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20 Feb 22 - 06:07 AM (#4137268) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou They are indeed Steve. I always have driven to the speed limit where it's safe and possible to do so. I'm not a 'dawdler'. But there's always some twit who apparently wants me to break the speed limit. I'm not driving a helicopter. This occasionally happens at roundabouts, where the idiot behind me wants me to zoom out and get on the roundabout, even if there is traffic on it, which of course has right of way. It's very intimidating, and now I shall be quite alone in my Fiesta, trying to be brave. 'Big girl's pants on Eliza!' |
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20 Feb 22 - 06:21 AM (#4137272) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: SPB-Cooperator when I am being tailgated, I slow down to a speed where I am satisfied that the car behind is a safe stopping distance. Either they will get the message, or overtake whether or not it is safe for oncoming traffic if they do so, but then that become their problem. Another pet gripe when I am in pedestrian mode are traffic islands. Pedestrians forget that their sole function is to allow impatient drivers to overtake at speed on the wrong side of the road. Traffic islands must never be used by pedestrians when crossing the road. |
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20 Feb 22 - 06:26 AM (#4137273) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Steve Shaw I get tailgated even when I'm exceeding the speed limit, which of course I never do <>(innocent whistling emoji) Don't get me started on wot people do at roundabouts. Mind you, a few years ago I hired a car for a week on Cyprus (where they drive on the left). I was warned that most people there had passed their driving test before roundabouts were introduced. Well talk about wild west... I concluded that the safest thing to do was probably to shut your eyes, put your foot down and whip over the roundabout in a flash...! The very first moments of my driving on the right were when I drove my car off the Plymouth-Santander ferry in Santander. The first thing you encounter outside the ferry terminal is a huge, complex roundabout with traffic lights everywhere, high and low (it was near-impossible to work out which ones applied to you...). Total confusion... I must say, the Spanish drivers were very patient, almost certainly because they'd worked out from my number plate that the car was being driven by a British tosser... I made it...somehow... |
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20 Feb 22 - 07:20 AM (#4137278) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Backwoodsman When I was working in Italy, near Milan, I discovered the joy of driving round roundabouts the ‘wrong-way’ (anti-clockwise) on the ‘wrong’ (i.e. right) side of the road, and where vehicles joining the roundabout have priority over vehicles already on it - everything the opposite way to UK roundabouts. After about six weeks I’d just about got used to it. Piece of piss from then on! ;-) |
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21 Feb 22 - 04:18 AM (#4137360) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: BobL Thank God, my first experience of driving on the continent was on a camping trip with the Scamp Owners' Club (in this thing). In a convoy, no worries at roundabouts, just look in every direction then follow the car in front! |
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21 Feb 22 - 04:50 AM (#4137363) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou I do admire anyone brave enough to drive abroad. I don't think I could handle driving on the right, with everything reversed. (I'm a bit challenged spatially!) I have travelled widely, on the Continent, Africa and Canada, but was always 'chauffered', never driving myself. |
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21 Feb 22 - 04:51 AM (#4137365) Subject: RE: BS: New rules of the road for the UK From: Senoufou Chauffeured'. Tut tut, my French has deteriorated now that I'm not speaking to my ex-husband every day! |
