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05 May 22 - 09:33 AM (#4141160) Subject: BS: Olde Sayings From: Donuel Some common sayings are many centuries olde 'Cat got your tongue?' may go back to ancient Egypt. The origins of old sayings is sometimes surprising like 'Blow smoke up your ass' was an actual 16 th century resucitation technique. |
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05 May 22 - 09:36 AM (#4141162) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mrrzy Adding insult to injury is an old phrase that means jumping on them (the sult of sauté or somersault or assault) when they were already down. Really means adding injury to injury. Bad form. |
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05 May 22 - 09:49 AM (#4141163) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Raggytash There is a superb book entitled "Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable" which has been in print since 1870. It has a plethora of explanations of common phrases many of which are still in use today. It is now in it's 20th edition and will grace any bookshelf. |
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05 May 22 - 10:05 AM (#4141165) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Donuel cool |
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05 May 22 - 03:11 PM (#4141196) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: meself Trouble is, most 'explanations of common phrases' turn out to be highly dubious .... |
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05 May 22 - 04:20 PM (#4141212) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw One man's fish is another man's poisson. |
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08 May 22 - 01:27 PM (#4141224) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk Brewer's .... the late great Sir Pterry was prouder than somewhat to be asked to do the foreword to "the millennium edition, 1999". And slap mi diodes and call me Frank, but I nearly wrote "the Y2K edition". |
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08 May 22 - 02:24 PM (#4141235) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Georgiansilver It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... came from the 18th century British Navy.,,, They had monkeys (square racks made of iron and designed in squares to hold 16 cannon balls). However, when in icy conditions, the iron was subject to shrinkage and the cannon balls rolled off onto the deck. Subsequently, brass monkeys were made which actually worked well..... but the expression, it's enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey was coined. |
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08 May 22 - 03:40 PM (#4141242) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red Pure Finding, was still in Brewers (1983) but left out of the 20?? C edition (1991) Anyone who tells you there is no such thing as a Dog Poo Fairy should consult the 1983 edition. It was used to soften leather after it had been tanned in tannic acid. And was a viable trade in the Victorian era. The tannery in Colyford in Devon had a shit pit in the 1950s according to John Lister, organiser of various small festivals in Devon. As he said - "it stank". Bat/pigeon guano is used today, or modern chemicals in developed countries. And there is a song about it song.mister.red > Pure Finder |
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13 May 22 - 10:05 PM (#4141630) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Neil D The first chapter of Victor Hugo's novel, "Ninety-three", includes a vivid description of the devastation caused on the gun deck of warship when a heavy cannon on a wheeled carriage breaks loose from its chains in rolling seas. Sailors are killed and the ship nearly sunk. It left me in no doubt as to the origin of the term "loose cannon". |
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15 May 22 - 01:40 AM (#4141685) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Senoufou Here in Norfolk there's no end of amusing old sayings. If one suggests throwing an unwanted item away, it's "Bucket and chuck it", referring to the old 'thunder boxes' (outside toilets with merely a bucket for use) If something goes wrong, one asks, "Hev the bottom drawped owt?" which refers to a boat in trouble at the coast. (The 'Singing Postman' used this in one of his songs) And "Dew yew keep a-troshing!" (Keep on threshing) which alludes to the old practice of threshing wheat in a barn to remove the grain. It's used nowadays to mean 'carry on trying'. I do so love Norfolk! |
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15 May 22 - 06:00 AM (#4141703) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Well I'll go to t'foot of our stair... My gran avoided expletives by inserting substitute words. "Bloody hell" became "blood and stomach pills" and "as happy as pigs in shite" became "as happy as pigs in Shudehill." :-) |
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15 May 22 - 06:32 AM (#4141711) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Dave the Gnome Must be our shared background, Steve. I was only thinking of 'foot of our stairs' when I read Sen's post. Was 'Piffy on a rock bun' also part of your childhood vocabulary? |
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15 May 22 - 02:08 PM (#4141744) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw I don't remember that one. Another one, a bit cruel, popped up whenever a bandy-legged individual was spotted: "Eee, look at him. He couldn't stop a pig in an entry..." |
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17 May 22 - 01:44 PM (#4141942) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Raedwulf "Couldn't stop a pig in a passage" is the version I know. Anyway... It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... came from the 18th century British Navy.,,, They had monkeys (square racks made of iron and designed in squares to hold 16 cannon balls). However, when in icy conditions, the iron was subject to shrinkage and the cannon balls rolled off onto the deck. Subsequently, brass monkeys were made which actually worked well..... but the expression, it's enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey was coined. Utter rubbish, I'm afraid, GSilver! ;-) It's certainly a popular & widely known explanation for the phrase, but it's not remotely true. It's actually a good example of Meself's most 'explanations of common phrases' turn out to be highly dubious... I can't give you an elegant explanation of the whole why & wherefore of this, because I've not yet completed the entry (I write an occasional "Word of the Day" thing for a group of friends, but have had no time lately to complete any of several nascent pieces). But consider these things... The more common version of your explanation is the monkey was a brass frame on which cannon balls were piled pyramid fashion, and the difference in the rate of expansion / contraction would result in cannon balls being popped off the frame in cold weather. First a ship of the "Wooden Walls" era is very much subject to the whims of the weather. You wouldn't store cannon balls in this fashion; they'd quickly be rolling all over the decks, and you don't want 12-, 24-, 36-lb lumps of iron doing THAT! Also relevant is that you don't want iron cannon balls exposed to the elements - they rust (another reason why it wouldn't have been an iron frame; they'd potentially rust themselves together). Gunners actually took the trouble to remove any imperfections on the surface of a ball, as otherwise it might not fly true when fired, or even jam in the barrel & cause the gun to explode. Second, one gentleman on the net pointed out that if the “monkey” were your dimpled frame (rather than just a square) a yard across, to move a 6” ball 1”, given the relative expansion & contraction of iron & brass, the temperature would have to fall to some -4,000,000 C. Which is going to be tricky to achieve given that Absolute Zero -273.15C is the theoretical zero point of temperature (0 Kelvin), from whence it is not possible to get colder. So physics as well as practicality is against it. Third, other monkey expressions are scald the throat, singe the hair, melt the nose; freeze the tail, nose, ears, whiskers. The good old OED lacks any reference to the phrase being used in this way. It's entirely possible that the one time popularity of the "Hear / see / speak no evil" ornamental trio of monkeys, usually made of brass, has given precedence to that version of the phrase above the the others. Whilst an amusing tale, historical it most certainly is not!* * Historically speaking, the RN used shot garlands - wooden planks with holes bored into them; a lot easier & cheaper to make in those days than expensively casting metal... |
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18 May 22 - 02:09 PM (#4141999) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mrrzy Can we do foreign ones? I just learned another way to say You make me sick in French is Tu me sors des yeux (you are coming out of my eyes). |
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18 May 22 - 08:49 PM (#4142029) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Donuel "Life is the universe developing memory" |
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19 May 22 - 02:10 AM (#4142043) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Senoufou Ha Mrrzy, that's a new one! Mon époux me sort des yeux! I think I may have asked this on Mudcat before, but can anybody shed some light on something my Irish mother (from Cork) used to say? Example: "You've been playing out in the mud, 'allowan'." Now what does 'allowan' mean, and what is its origin? |
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19 May 22 - 06:05 PM (#4142109) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red As I heard it, Brass Monkeys were ceremonial/ neat & tidy land fashions. Just imagine a pyramid of balls on a rolling ship! In the fog of war! They had suitably troughed shelves for holding cannon balls on board. |
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21 May 22 - 04:17 PM (#4142198) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw "It's all my eye and Betty Martin" - an ancient expression that means "don't give me your bullshit..." |
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21 May 22 - 05:26 PM (#4142207) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Joe_F My mother's immigrant friends thought that the most bizarre American expressions were "My feet are killing me" and "I feel like a cocktail". Try those out in *any* other language. |
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22 May 22 - 04:31 AM (#4142231) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red Mes pieds me tuent - Goggle can't find moi in context and fails on the same word in Portuguese & Castillian. In Catalan it looks like the feet are dangerous weapons, but in German, maybe, it translates well, though idiomatic language doesn't carry well and on Goggle even worse. eg Calling a spade a spade in French becomes a calling a cat a cat - I wonder how cat got your tongue is received in French? I think it sounds like you give your cat a tongue - Oh! What fun!. |
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22 May 22 - 06:37 AM (#4142233) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: The Sandman The expression: "It is cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey" comes from the practice of putting iron cannon balls on a dimpled brass plate on the deck of a war-ship. When very cold the brass contracted sufficiently to cause the iron balls to fall out. |
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22 May 22 - 06:44 AM (#4142234) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: The Sandman 'Thas a rummun' This phrase is used to describe situations which are a little out of the ordinary or odd. • 'What a load of ole squit' When someone thinks you're talking utter rubbish in East Anglia they'll probably let you know by saying this classic phrase. • 'Hold yew hard' If you wanted someone to hang on for a moment, this is what you' East Anglian sayings |
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22 May 22 - 09:16 AM (#4142242) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Eeee, f*****g stroll on... |
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22 May 22 - 12:10 PM (#4142249) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk A vague memory suggests "It was all My eye and Betty Martin" may have been a nautical mondegreen: a sailor venturing ashore in a Catholic country, happening on a Mass being celebrated, and being asked back on the ship what it was like. Determining quite what from the Latin mass was misheard as "my eye and betty martin" is left as an exercise for the student, but I remember thinking "that makes sense" when I saw it. .... When Herself goes to Mass next, I'll ask her to ask the priest. Research continues. |
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23 May 22 - 03:05 AM (#4142292) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red iron cannon balls on a dimpled brass plate on the deck of a war-ship. Yea, but only for ceremonial purposes, and when moored in harbour. Never when floating free. |
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23 May 22 - 06:52 AM (#4142307) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Shipshape and Bristol fashion. |
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23 May 22 - 10:34 AM (#4142329) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: G-Force I think it was something like: 'alma mihi et Beate Martine'. |
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23 May 22 - 10:46 AM (#4142336) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: The Sandman Why is it called Going for a Burton? It was widely used as a slang term by the RAF in World War Two when the RAF took heavy casualties during the war to defeat Nazi Germany. Back then it was considered bad luck to say that someone had died or was missing in action, so the phrase 'gone for a Burton' was used instead |
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24 May 22 - 03:39 AM (#4142408) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red Goggle can only manage "Alma mihi et Beate Martine" > Alma me and Blessed Martin And cannot translate "Alma Mater" nourishing mother (go figure) Shipshape and Bristol fashion. originally meant upright, as in the angle of repose of the mud in the Bristol Avon. The bottoms of the boats were at that angle so that as the tide receded the ships settled in the mud upright. Or so I read long ago. |
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24 May 22 - 05:37 AM (#4142416) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: G-Force My mother had some unforgettable sayings. After some minor catrastrophe like something getting broken or a drink getting knocked over, she would say 'Worse things happen in China'. And on an overcast day, when the clouds started to clear away it would be 'There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers'. |
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24 May 22 - 06:12 AM (#4142420) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw It was enough blue to make a Dutchman's britches our end! |
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24 May 22 - 06:38 AM (#4142422) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Monique French-speaking girls, it's "Tu me sors par les yeux". Mr Red, we do say "Le chat t'a mangé la langue" to say "the cat got your tongue" and "donner sa langue au chat" is when we give up guessing. We don't "throw in the towel", we "throw the sponge". |
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24 May 22 - 06:56 AM (#4142425) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red 'There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers'. With us it was a Sailor - which makes more sense to me. As if sky and trousers make sense! Monique - merci beaucou for calling a cat a cat! |
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24 May 22 - 07:23 AM (#4142432) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw "Eeee, bloody Nora, I feel as I've bin shagged by a rhino..." OK, not olde, but I don't half use it a lot after a long day... |
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24 May 22 - 08:36 AM (#4142440) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Monique "There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers". Here it's "une culotte de gendarme" which shows the expression must be more than 150 years old because "culotte" switched from "men's trousers" to "women's panties" in the mid 1800's. |
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24 May 22 - 10:17 AM (#4142448) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk Gotcha: the first hit on DDG is to Wictionary, where "Ah! mihi, bea’te Martine", which translates to "Ah! Grant to me, blessed Martin" (meaning Saint Martin), is alleged to have been the punchline of a nautical joke. Methinks the punctuation may be significant unto Google Translate. Note to self: put brain in gear before engaging mouth. |
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24 May 22 - 10:55 AM (#4142450) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk Woe is me, for I have been Wiki'd. The *second* DDG hit carefully explains that no such expression has been found in the entirety of the Latin mass, and traces the basic construction to a reference, in a work of literary satire, to a book which never existed. (I would have gone further, but my browser doesn't like the taste of said site's cookies.) Moral: beware folk etymology. |
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25 May 22 - 11:00 AM (#4142537) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Big Al Whittle My Mum used to have a lot of sayings Oh What fun! Oh what Fun! Shooting peas up a nanny goats bum sign out side Fish Shop in St Helens If it swims Alf's got it! Mrs Maguire peed on the fire the Fire was too hot She peed on the pot The pot was too round She peed on the ground The ground was too flat She peed on the cat And the cat ran away with the pee on its back and other stuff |
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25 May 22 - 12:45 PM (#4142543) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mrrzy There's a German on the grass With a bullet up his ass Pull it out Pull it out Boy scout |
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25 May 22 - 04:14 PM (#4142565) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Here's an olde saying: "Bloody Hell." |
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25 May 22 - 04:25 PM (#4142569) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Big Al Whittle Lord God Almighty Weed on his nightie. |
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25 May 22 - 08:31 PM (#4142588) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Savings From: Donuel Olde Savings are the best Savings. |
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26 May 22 - 02:46 AM (#4142597) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red women's panties Ah! Methinks a transliteration. I would posit - panties imply under garments cf pants external garb - mostly. UK English anyway. And probably NZ English too, though they use the Scottish English often like uptake where I would say pick up - as in tourists' leaflets. It's a Tower of Babble out there |
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26 May 22 - 02:52 AM (#4142598) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red My mother used to use alternative words for my (long) trousers. Variously trous, slacks and even pantaloons. Sometimes pants but she did live in Pennsylvania for about 5 years as a young girl. |
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27 May 22 - 07:39 AM (#4142600) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Dave the Gnome 'e needs pulling through with a christmas tree |
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27 May 22 - 08:54 AM (#4142602) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw He couldn't find his arse wi' both hands. |
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27 May 22 - 09:51 PM (#4142667) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Rapparee You drive like old people (fill in the blank yourself). If you were any slower you'd be dead. His worth is about like a fart in a windstorm. |
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28 May 22 - 05:56 PM (#4142706) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Joe_F Sometimes such sayings develop successors. The following example was told me by Maurice Samuel of blessed memory. There used to be a Yiddish expression for drifting around helplessly: "vi a frantsoiz in Rusland" (like a Frenchman in Russia, referring to Napoleon's retreat). This was parodied as "vi a farts im roisl" (like a fart in the pickle barrel, referring to fermentation bubbles working their way up between the pickles. By the time my father learned it (in English), it had lost its historical roots and become simply "like a fart in the marketplace". |
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28 May 22 - 06:03 PM (#4142707) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Don't come crying to me... |
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28 May 22 - 10:57 PM (#4142727) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Rapparee Just get back in the saddle and pull leather. Cowboy up! |
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28 May 22 - 11:00 PM (#4142728) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Donuel Who in their right mind would? |
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29 May 22 - 07:48 AM (#4142762) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw The senior gardener on the Coronation Park estate in Radcliffe would get off his seat at the end of the tea break and say to us, "Right, come on lads, be men..." |
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29 May 22 - 10:30 AM (#4142771) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk .... can't .... resist .... Joe_F's contribution reminds me of something from one of the older Red dwarf episodes: "like trying to find a fart in a jacuzzi". Related? |
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31 May 22 - 06:00 PM (#4143038) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red Don't come crying to me... If you break your leg - don't come running to me |
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01 Jun 22 - 09:41 PM (#4143164) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Rapparee All right, get up there! You sons of bitches wanna live forever? |
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02 Jun 22 - 05:37 AM (#4143186) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red not got two ha'pneys to rub together (half penny for our US cousins) or as I say after 4 hours walking on rough ground "At last I have two ape knees to rub together" thinks - should I add the one about having a joint account? |
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02 Jun 22 - 06:16 AM (#4143195) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw Well bugger me sideways with a burnt chip (thanks to Raggytash for that one) Or, Well bugger me sideways with a bent fish-hook (thanks to Stephen Fry for that one) Or, Whale oil beef hooked... (They all mean the same thing!) |
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02 Jun 22 - 07:18 AM (#4143203) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: MaJoC the Filk "She's no better than she ought to be" always mystifies me. Herself for some reason links that to "a house of ill repute but good reputation". |
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02 Jun 22 - 09:01 AM (#4143215) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Raggytash I'd forgotten about that one Steve *grin* !! Many years ago one of our group brought his Australian girfriend into out company, grand lass she was too. We decide we would teach her to speak "proper lanky" speech so we derived a saying for her to learn. It HAS to be said in broad Lanky mind. "there's nowt wrong with owt, whats gradely o'er stump as long as there's tripe in picklin'" * for our American cousins it loosely translates as "as is well with the world" |
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04 Jun 22 - 07:10 PM (#4143335) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Donuel Safe as walking into a church. obsolete in US |
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05 Jun 22 - 07:41 AM (#4143360) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red Seen on a wall in Wellington NZ "When the atom drum bops, wheel all beef hooked" |
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06 Jun 22 - 03:06 AM (#4143439) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Senoufou When my sister and I were small, in the evening our father used to say firmly "Up the wooden road to Bedford!" (time for bed) |
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06 Jun 22 - 04:07 AM (#4143443) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Mr Red In Wedgebury (Wednesbury to those outside the Black Country) "Up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire" |
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06 Jun 22 - 04:42 AM (#4143446) Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings From: Steve Shaw He couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo (oft heard when a footballer misses an open goal from two yards) Put wood in th' 'ole (shut that door) |