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15 Jan 00 - 11:38 PM (#163731) Subject: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: Abby Sale I'm presented with a wonderful copy of High Level Ranters (_A Mile to Ride_) and a question-raising song on it. (Or more.) It's sung by Johnny Handle and, naturally, it's performed with all the éclat these people invariably exhibit - whether individually or severally. The "Shoemaker" more or less shares the tune in the verses of "Yankee Doodle." It's a rollicking (not bawdy) complaint & battle between the wife-narrator and her husband, the shoemaker & his shoes of rotten leather. The chorus scans & is extremely reminiscent of "The Dirty Tinker." That is the Dirty Gypsy version of "The Jolly Beggar" (Child 276). That one's p29 of Erotic Muse - Compared to the "Shoemaker" chorus: Shoemaker, leather-cracker,
It turns out there's a political version of "Shoemaker" in DT (no similar Ye gads. I've gotta look into this one. If any have the words I'd appreciate it - I almost get them but there are a bunch of holes - it's fast. |
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16 Jan 00 - 05:05 AM (#163784) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: John Moulden As has been mentioned in the Ballad List this is in Bruce and Stokoe: Northumbrian Minstrelsy (1882) but now reprinted in paperback by Llanarch Publishers, Felinfach (Wales) page 96. It reminds me of dance songs in general, though the resemblence indicated by Abby is present. Tail Toddle (Scottish) for example or Maggie Pickin (Irish) which is also associated with the Scottish "What the Devil ails ye." I can hear little similarity between the tune in Bruce and Stokoe and Yankee Doodle; is the similarity to be credited to the High Level Ranters? Abby, if you can't get hold of B&S, let me know what you can hear or the words and I'll fill the holes. |
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16 Jan 00 - 11:34 AM (#163842) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: Abby Sale Thanks, as always, John. Yes, I've had B&S for 30 years. I keep forgetting that 13 out of 14 Northumbrian songs ever sung are in there. And it seems to be the same tune. To me it's clearly "Yankee Doodle" in the verses. Handle's words are nearly identical to B&S. At one point he may be substituting "the diel knows what" for "I don't know what." I wonder if that makes it slightly off-colour? But it's a great song, no kidding. |
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29 Apr 03 - 03:13 PM (#942958) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: TheBigPinkLad Hi Abby & John ... I've not heard the High Level Ranters do Shoemaker but I have a copy of The Hush version. I can't hear Yankee Doodle in it, although the rythmn pattern is similar. |
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29 Apr 03 - 03:31 PM (#942972) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: GUEST,MCP Stokoe also published it in his Songs of Northern England, identically I think. (And I can't see any similarity with YDD either!). Abby - there's no essential difference between the de'il knows what and I don't know what, both expressing something defying description, nothing off-colour about either. Mick |
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29 Apr 03 - 04:11 PM (#943009) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: TheBigPinkLad Mick, did you mean Yankee Doodle Dandy when you typed YDD? If so, they are two different songs: Yankee Doodle is the one that goes "Yankee Doodle went to town riding on a pony, put a ferather in hic and called it maccaroni" etc. and YDD is "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy, Yankee Doodle do or die" a la Jimmy Cagney. |
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29 Apr 03 - 07:26 PM (#943157) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: GUEST,MCP BigPinkLad No. I did mean Yankee Doodle. I'd been reading the other thread on the song and seen the reference to YDD (which I really do mean here) and confused myself abbreviating (but not comparing)! I still think there's little resembance and here's the tune from The Northumbrian Minstrelsy for those who want to check. Mick X: 1 T:The Shoemakker M:2/4 L:1/8 S:Bruce & Stokoe: Northumbrian Minstrelsy K:Bb F|F B c e|d B c F|F B c d|B> c B F/ F/|F B c e|d B c (d/e/)|f> d e> c|B2 A F|| _A2 A (G/F/)|G G G F/ G/|_A A A G|B c B G/ G/|_A A A (G/F/)|G G G (F/G/)|F B c e|B2 A F|| |
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29 Apr 03 - 11:40 PM (#943269) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: Abby Sale Good ABC, whoever did it. Marginally different from the Ranters. I'm sorry, that first line still sounds like YD to me. (I'm perfectly willing to be considered nuts, however.) After, not before I got the above notion, I found in the database: THE SHOEMAKER'S SONG (Allen Peabody). To the tune of "Yankee Doodle" CHORUS: Up and let us have a strike Fair prices we'll demand. Firmly let us all unite, ' Unite throughout the land. From American Labor Songs of the 19 Century, Foner. Note: Written during the Great Shoemaker's Strike of 1860. I only mention this because it's an additional association between shoemakers and YD. BTW, I've now got all the Ranters' words though there are still a few obscure references I've never translated. |
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30 Apr 03 - 05:21 AM (#943358) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: GUEST,MCP Abby - I was going to post the words for you to go with the tune but thought I'd do a quick check first. The words have already been posted by Conrad Bladey in Lyr Add: The Shoemakker. They are unattributed there, but it is the set from the Northumbrian Minstrelsy (or Songs of Northern England, as I said I think they're identical). (The midi link there is inactive and I couldn't see the file in Mudcat Midis when I looked, but it may be about somewhere). Mick |
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30 Apr 03 - 10:05 AM (#943505) Subject: Lyr Add: THE SHOEMAKER From: Abby Sale MCP: Thanks. Those are the words from B&S. I'd sent them to the DB in April of '00. (There are also two other entries there, slightly diff from B&S but otherwise the same sets as each other, SHOEMAK2 & SHOEMAK3.) Because I'd mentioned the YD connection, the attached tune to the one I sent- SHOEMKKR in the DB is Yanky Doodle. Probably a big mistake. I thought I'd transcribed the B&S tune to go with it. But if you listen to the first line or so... Here's the set from the HLR best as I can transcribe it: The Shoemaker [sic] Me mother sent us to the skyul, [us=me, school] To learn to be a stocking-myaker, But I was young and played the fule, And married with a shoemaker. Shoemaker, leather-cracker, Balls of wax and stinking water, Three rows of rotten leather, Whee would have a shoemaker. [who] His hands are like a cuddy's houghs, [pony's?; hooves?] His face is like the haigh-lowed leather, [high-low=embossed?] His looks is like Aa devil know what, [I] His hair is like a bunch of heather. Shoemaker, leather cracker, Balls of wax and stinking water, Three rows of rotten leather, Whee would have a shoemaker. He sent us for a pint of wine, And I brought him a pint o' water, He played me as good a trick, He made me shoes of rotten leather. Shoemaker, leather cracker, Balls of wax and stinking water, Three rows of rotten leather, Whee would have a shoemaker. |
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01 May 03 - 08:26 AM (#944305) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: A Wandering Minstrel re your translations above... Cuddys Houghs (pronounced Huffs) = donkeys backside. Newcastle equivalent of "Rough as a badgers a**e". To "Cruck yer Houghs" is to sit down. Haigh-lowed = heavily seamed or furrowed, wrinkled in this context The song is a morality tale of sorts as shoemakers were considered a very poor catch as a husband. |
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01 May 03 - 05:56 PM (#944497) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: Abby Sale Wandering Minstrel: Thank you. I'd looked everywhere I could think of for that. Makes good sense in the context. Incidentally, I've just finished reading a very interesting autobiography Wayfaring Stranger. I guess that must be your cousin or something. Seems he wrote it in 1946 under the pseudonym, 'Burl Ives.' Good book. Many insights I wouldn't have considered at all. |
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02 May 03 - 01:36 PM (#944998) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: GUEST In Scotland the word 'houghs'is pronounced 'hoachs', the ch spken as in Scottish 'loch'. |
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02 May 03 - 05:30 PM (#945133) Subject: RE: Bawdy Northumbrian 'Yankee Doodle' song From: TheBigPinkLad It sometimes has the same pronunciation in Northumberland too: (Sc.)Loch (lake) = (Nthmb) Lough, pronounced the same. But the pronunciation predates the spelling of course. It gets even more complicated ... 'Featherstoneheugh' is pronounced "Fansha" (the last vowel is actually a schwa for the linguists among you) On the other hand Penshaw is pretty much, though not quite, as it seems: Pensha. As for "Pan Haggerty" ... ;o) |