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05 Sep 22 - 08:03 AM (#4152018) Subject: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Backwoodsman For some time now, the temperature of the contents of my bladder has been rising, hearing ‘st’ pronounced by BBC presenters as ‘sht’- so ‘street’ becomes ‘shtreet’, ‘student’ becomes ‘shtudent’, ‘strong’ becomes ‘shtrong’ etc. But last night boiling point was finally achieved when I heard a continuity-announcer not only refer to a programme containing ‘shtrong’ language, but also refer to two of our major cities as ‘Nottinam’ and ‘Birminam’. I understand that language evolves, but is this how? Really? WT actual F? |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:10 AM (#4152020) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Donuel Maybe, only maybe, it has something to do with microphones. A hard s can sometimes whistle while a sh does not? |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:31 AM (#4152029) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Doug Chadwick It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem". I find missing 't's in the middle of words really irritating. My daughter does it all the time. Now it's often heard on the BBC. At the same time, I don't get too upset about the final 'g' being left off "-ing" words, which probably means that I do all the time without thinking. But, yes, the BBC, while celebrating regional accents, should guard against sloppy speech. DC |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:31 AM (#4152030) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Backwoodsman I have considerable (sixty years plus) experience with microphones and their use. It’s not the microphones, it’s their pronunciation. |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:38 AM (#4152031) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Backwoodsman ”It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem".” No Doug, the announcer pronounced the t’s correctly. They pronounced it ‘Nottin’am’, omitting the g and the h. I’m used to hearing the glottal stop - the local kids talk about, for instance, a par’y or a ta’oo - but I’m talking here about our national broadcasting organisation failing to maintain standards. |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:49 AM (#4152032) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Bonzo3legs It's the BBC letting in regionals who cannot speak properly!!! |
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05 Sep 22 - 08:52 AM (#4152034) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw Then there are those words ending in a y sound that are pronounced with the ending eee. Listen to the news correspondents tonight and you'll hear it 20 times. Yes, it's going downhill. Or should I say deteriating... |
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05 Sep 22 - 09:00 AM (#4152036) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw "It's the BBC letting in regionals who cannot speak properly!!!" What, as opposed to you sarf Landoners? |
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05 Sep 22 - 04:53 PM (#4152074) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Bonzo3legs I am not a "sarf Londoner" thank goodness. I speak properly. |
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06 Sep 22 - 04:01 AM (#4152106) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: fat B****rd Oo sez ?? |
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06 Sep 22 - 04:26 AM (#4152108) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler And the number of times I hear decayed instead of decade. Robin |
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06 Sep 22 - 04:42 AM (#4152110) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Acorn4 Maybe they's all been watching Sean Connery films? |
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06 Sep 22 - 04:45 AM (#4152111) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Backwoodsman Shurely not, Miss Moneypenny? |
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06 Sep 22 - 05:57 AM (#4152122) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: robomatic This has been going on for years in the US. I believe it is increasing use of the glottal stop among young folks. I usedto call it "swallowing the 'T'" e.g.'Accounting' is pronouced "Accon'in" And it has made it onto US Public Radio. I reflected that this was the cocknification of the airwaves. |
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13 Sep 22 - 03:10 AM (#4152266) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Senoufou Years ago (pipes up the garrulous old lady) voices on the BBC (radio and later the TV) were always speaking in Received Pronunciation, known as RP. Lately, regional accents and personal 'mispronunciations' are permitted. Now, after studying Phonetics and Linguistics as part of my Master of Arts degree, I've grown to love quirky speech, accents, idioms, even mispronunciations etc. If everyone spoke like the RP Robot, it would be rather boring. And language has always 'evolved' over the centuries. We don't speak as Shakespeare might have done. Living in Norfolk, I'm fascinated by the locals' funny speech. As I was in Glasgow when I lived there. I'm trying nowadays to be less snobbish, and to stop feeling 'superior' merely because oi talk proper!! |
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13 Sep 22 - 03:54 AM (#4152268) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Well I am going to the National Dialect Weekend in October in Shap even though I don't speak in a dialect myself. Very educational! Robin |
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13 Sep 22 - 04:39 AM (#4152271) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw I haven't lived in the north of England since I was 18 and I'm now 71. My Lancashire accent is as strong as ever. |
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13 Sep 22 - 07:19 AM (#4152296) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Senoufou Accents are mysteriously tenacious. When I'm advising my husband (in English) about his health and well-being on his weekend visits to me, I suddenly find myself speaking with an Irish accent. This must be because I'm channelling my Irish mother! And when I'm a bit cross, I can suddenly sound rather 'Cockney' (from my childhood in Middlesex during the fifties). I also tend to speak to people who have a distinct accent by subconsciously copying them. There's a Geordie chap down the road who's delightful, and I find myself saying, "Eeeh!" "Haway!" etc. (My father was a Geordie). Lastly, there's a Scots lady who walks her dogs past my house, and I break into Broad Glasgae when talking to her. Luckily she laughs, and doesn't assume I'm taking the mickey. As a small child I often spoke to my astonished mother in a strange language which I told her was "African". Premonition? I absolutely love accents and languages. |
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13 Sep 22 - 09:25 AM (#4152314) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Jon Freeman I remember a few years back asking someone I’d known through folk music for years where he was from originally. He was very Welsh sounding and Welsh first language and I was quite surprised when he said Manchester. Apparently his mother had moved to Manchester before he was born and he spent his early years living in a Welsh community there. |
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13 Sep 22 - 05:46 PM (#4152369) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome I can recommend Bill Bryson's "The Mother Tongue" for anyone with an interest in accents and dialects. I would even offer to send it you but I have no idea where my copy is! |
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13 Sep 22 - 06:25 PM (#4152373) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw Written like a true Yorkshireman, Dave! ;-) |
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14 Sep 22 - 02:51 AM (#4152413) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Senoufou Oh I've got Bill Bryson's 'Mother Tongue' - like all his books, it's excellent. |
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14 Sep 22 - 03:20 PM (#4152478) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Reinhard As long as Bryson writes about the English language, 'Mother Tongue' is excellent. But I hate how he sneers at other languages' (e.g Welsh and Irish in the first chapter) spelling and alleged unpronuncability - for Deity's sake they are different languages with their own rules, and their native speakers of course don't have any problems with them. So why should they have to conform to English standards? |
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17 Sep 22 - 06:31 AM (#4152724) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome I did not see it as sneering Reinhard, just comparing it with English. He does go on to point out the incoinsistencies of the English language later. Having just spent 2 nights in Wales, before and after the ferry to Dublin, I can certainly see how English speakers hace difficulty with pronunciation of both Welsh and Irish and pointing it out is in no way deprecating the language - Rather the general inability of the English to learn another language. I spoke English, Russian and Polish until I was 5 or 6 and have now lost most of that. My maternal great grandmother was Welsh (From Rhuddlan) yet my Grandmother always pronounced it Rudlan rather than Hrithlin |
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17 Sep 22 - 06:36 AM (#4152725) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome I have lost most of the Russian and Polish that is! Altough some people would point out that my English is none too good either :-D |
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17 Sep 22 - 06:40 AM (#4152727) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw Nowt wrong wi' mine, owd lad! |
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17 Sep 22 - 07:36 AM (#4152732) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome Ey up cocker. Mine neyther but furriners can't figure aht worram on abart |
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18 Sep 22 - 04:27 AM (#4152797) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: John MacKenzie Doric onybuddy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS3AdzZ0Nw |
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18 Sep 22 - 05:49 AM (#4152800) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome Excellent John. Couldn't understand a word :-) I have a mate who was in the army for a while. He reckons he used to act as an interpreter between a Geordie and a Welshman who were stationed with him! |
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19 Sep 22 - 02:19 PM (#4153011) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: MaJoC the Filk robomatic> I used to call it "swallowing the 'T'" A more recent annoyance is young reporters (on the Beeb, Reith save us all) pronouncing "little" with the same T as in "tick". I blame their parents for not correcting such twee-isms until it's too late. |
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19 Sep 22 - 05:17 PM (#4153043) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Backwoodsman …or ‘bus’ pronounced ‘buzz’. |
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19 Sep 22 - 05:30 PM (#4153049) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Steve Shaw If tha were posh tha'd catch Ribble buzz ter Blackpool, or yer could go on t'Mills 'n' Seddons sharrer fer an extra tanner... |
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20 Sep 22 - 04:37 AM (#4153095) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: fat B****rd When my parents moved from Sunderland to Cleethorpes in 1930 the locals thought she was Scottish !!. Especially when she asked for Scallions in stead of Spring Onions . If any of my friends remarked that my Dad was a Geordie he never bothered to correct them. Charlie (semi-mackem) (fB) |
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20 Sep 22 - 05:14 AM (#4153102) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Mr Red ‘Nottinam’ and ‘Birminam’. "The kind of language, up with which we will not put" Winston S Churchill But, cough, isn't there a song called "Nottanum Town"? And we in the (much posher) Black Country** invariably referred to Brumagem in lazy slang as Brum. **Wedgebury since you ask (or Wodensburg for the traditionalists) |
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20 Sep 22 - 07:45 AM (#4153117) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Dave the Gnome You reminded me, fB. Visiting a pub in Whitley Bay, where I had a flat at the time, I noticed there was a leek competition where local growers showed their prize leeks. I think I upset a few people by saying that their spring onions were Ok but we had better in Lancashire :-D |
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20 Sep 22 - 08:15 AM (#4153124) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Doug Chadwick As resident of Lincolnshire, I wonder if the second 'l' was ever pronounced and, if so, was it considered sloppy speech when people started to make it silent. Perhaps, in time, "Nottinam’/No'ingem" and "Birminam" will become the correct pronunciation. DC |
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20 Sep 22 - 12:51 PM (#4153154) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Geoff Wallis 'It's not "Nottinham". It's "No'ingem".' Sorry, that's wrong. As someone born and bred in the city, it's called Nottanum (and the 'a' is almost non-existent). And for Nottanum folk, it's Darbeh, as well, at the other end of Brian Clough ('Cluffeh') Way. Yo' cummin' dahn ar alleh, yoth? |
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20 Sep 22 - 01:33 PM (#4153158) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Reinhard The song is "Nottamun Fair/Town" in the Roud Index, in the Traditional Ballad Index, and in all recordings that I know of, not "Nottanum". |
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20 Sep 22 - 01:55 PM (#4153163) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: John MacKenzie "When my parents moved from Sunderland to Cleethorpes in 1930 the locals thought she was Scottish !!. Especially when she asked for Scallions in stead of Spring Onions . If any of my friends remarked that my Dad was a Geordie he never bothered to correct them. Charlie (semi-mackem) " Shows what they know Charlie, up here we call them syboes, pronounced sybies :) |
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20 Sep 22 - 03:54 PM (#4153171) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: fat B****rd "Harraway an S***e, Well known North Eastern Shipbuilders, John :-) |
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23 Sep 22 - 10:36 AM (#4153407) Subject: RE: BS: Falling Standards in BBC Pronunciation From: Mr Red Nottamun / Nottanum that's the Folk Process for you. |