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BS: KISS keep it simple

05 Jan 23 - 04:28 PM (#4161414)
Subject: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dave the Gnome asked me to dumb down my alternative explanations (hypothesis). On second thought It is a good idea. Richard Feynman was the most personable genius and said you should be able to tell a stranger on a bar stool what you are on about.
You also can simplify stuff but never too much. So I will let you know some things you have to know first. I am on the outside looking inside at new discoveries And learning what I need to know to understand what I am seeing then try to make a distillation of common sense. When that common sense does not agree with conventional science I see a clue to look deeper or elsewhere.
You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton. Waves yes, but no trace of quanta packets of energy. Also, questions like why, can often not be answered. Problems that can't be solved require a new approach.
So here goes...Basically, there are two buckets of stuff, one has matter and the other bucket has force carriers. There are six kinds of electrons and sixteen kinds of quarks. The other buck has particles we call force carriers which are phons of the electrodynamic force. Gravitons are thought to be the force carrier of gravity, The strong nuclear force has carriers called gluons which I think have eight gluons and the weak nuclear force has three carriers. That's four fundamental forces. Yep we are looking for a fifth but it is inconclusive so far.
Issac Newton was stumped when it came to the concept of force carriers since he knew some things acted at a distance and he did not know how they did that. The three giants in Physics were Newton (the first physicist) Maxwell(found force carriers) and Einstein (the pull on space-time by mass).
After that, I have my favs like Dirac, and Shroedinger (for showing the absurdity of quantum mechanics) although the math worked. BTW I do not think in math which is like like a musician who can't read music but I do use mental pictures with my mind's eye which has its problems and advantages.
Photons pass through each other but other boson particle force carriers like fermions do interact and bounce off each other,r which makes bosons and fermions different. Now let's go smaller and look at neutrinos which pass through everything but can on very rare occasions interact with Matter. There are at least 6 kinds or flavors of neutrinos and seem to be able from one kind to another on their own.
We haven't measured all the theorized bosons but some of them have technicolor names

So now you know some names and types of standard particle theory. But what about reality? If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible. You can say symmetry broke and the magic happened.
.
Now let's go smaller into nothing and you are in the quantum realm where fields fluctuate and particles pop into and out of existence. Some physicists don't bother to ask where they come from or where they go but virtual particles seem to go somewhere.
In this land of potential and probabilities, there are uncertainties. You can say on a fundamental level things are uncertain which seems reasonable and strange. Physicists may refer to these bits of nothingness as objects even though there may be nothing there.
Mysteries abound in this realm. For example, there seem to be error-correcting codes at this level. We do not know what this means. Mysteries that fascinate me are dark matter and dark energy. Based on their attributes some things are known but the ideas so far are not helping.

By now you see there is room for more speculations. It can be fun to explore new possibilities. Not by superstition but by things we know but perhaps can not yet measure. Is that lying? I don't think so. I think it is called thinking.
Naturally, black hole questions are popular today. That Dr. Penrose won a Nobel prize for his speculation of black holes but Einstein couldn't win one for General or Special Relativity. That is because of the way the rules for the prize are written.
I was born before Al died but scientists still criticized him regarding his theory into the 50s. It is more time-consuming to think than to be a critic.
As for psychology, it became clear to me the unconscious mind was bigger, stronger and smarter than the conscious mind. 12 years in clinical practice will do that.

I don't know if that clears things up for Dave or not.

05 Jan 23 - 04:43 PM (#4161416)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

buck=bucket and phons=photons
the rest you can intuit

05 Jan 23 - 05:09 PM (#4161420)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

If this is a college lecture, wake me up at the end of the hour, somebody.

05 Jan 23 - 05:42 PM (#4161426)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I also believe in free will because I have no choice but to believe in it when I question everything.

05 Jan 23 - 05:58 PM (#4161430)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I thought you wanted to keep it simple.

05 Jan 23 - 07:28 PM (#4161442)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In short you are adversarial. You have an adversarial government. You probably have adversarial relationships and family.

I get it,

but you are no Christopher Hitchins.
I wish you were because you contradict yourself a great deal
but you work with what you got. We all do.

If we could start the early Earth over a million times, different life would probably evolve each time. Some might have only right-handed proteins.
No way can we ever test this hypothesis but I think about these things.
As is, life evolved entirely differently at least once.

05 Jan 23 - 07:39 PM (#4161443)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

sigh. I knew it was you, Donuel, before I opened the thread.

05 Jan 23 - 07:49 PM (#4161449)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Same here. A dose of the usual, of course...

05 Jan 23 - 08:17 PM (#4161452)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Subjects that open my mind to new thoughts are a pleasure for me. That's why even the new data about UAPs may not have a conclusion but novel thinking results. If that offends you I think that's weird, so were even. Perhaps you never put yourself in the shoes of an alien and see things from their POV. I have and there are ideas to be gained. Ideas like how we would make false assumptions if we did meet since we are human. We would probably assume human aspects to them that do not exist.

a kiss is just a kiss a sigh is just a sigh
these are fundamentals of our life as time goes by
mysteries are unknown the answer leaves mind's blown
its the fundamental question why as time goes by.

05 Jan 23 - 08:20 PM (#4161453)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't offend us but you do amuse us, and not always in the best way.

05 Jan 23 - 08:55 PM (#4161455)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I can not be shamed by control freaks for asking unpopular questions.

06 Jan 23 - 02:43 AM (#4161466)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Donuel. As yet it does not look simple but I have only skimmed it. I shall look more closely later.

06 Jan 23 - 06:04 AM (#4161476)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Sorry Donuel. I think it comes down to us communicating on different levels. Your explanation of particle theory is perfectly clear and your line "By now you see there is room for more speculations. It can be fun to explore new possibilities. Not by superstition but by things we know but perhaps can not yet measure." is a good description of how you work but, for me, the whole post is marred by obscure references.

"You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton." - Sorry but that does not make sense. Gravity exists and whether it exists because of the graviton or the gravy boat does not matter.

"We haven't measured all the theorized bosons but some of them have technicolor names" - WTF are technicolour names?

"If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible." Really? Is that a fact? I am no astrophysacist but I have never heard of that theory.

Those are just three of the things that are arcane.

Let me tell you how I work through similar things. They are either fact or speculation. Speculation can become fact when knowledge is gained. Facts can be superceded by other facts as knowledge improves. I have no issue at all with saying 'I do not understand this' and when I do not understand it, I ask a couple of simple questions.

Do I need to understand it? If the answer is yes, I try to learn about it. If no, I defer to people who do

Do I want to understand it? If yes I will often pose questions like "WTF are technicolour names" (See - I DO want to understand :-) ) If no, I forget it.

I realised some time back that the older I get, the less I seem to know. It makes life interesting enough to know that things that happen every day to surprise or astound me. Some bad, but most of them good and all of them quite amazing.

I think you may have got the wrong idea about keeping things simple for me. I neither want nor need flowery or arcane language. Tell us what you think and why you think it, prefereably without stating opinions or theories as facts. We can make our own minds up. No one will think any the worse of you if you do not have 'special' powers. You are a very special person to many already. No need to try and impress others.

06 Jan 23 - 06:30 AM (#4161479)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I heartily agree. Call a spade a spade. Donuel revels in NOT keeping things simple, unfortunately, which belies the title of this thread. There's poor English, there are flowery and obscure asides which he ascribes to his poetic predilections (sheesh), there are opinions as facts - and, saddest of all, there's a reputational issue. Too many times in the past we've had half-truths or garbled facts (which aren't always even facts) because of lack of checking. So you never know what to believe unless you start from scratch and research his claims yourself, which can get you very annoyed when you find a lot of errors and misinterpretations. Oh yes, and those claims of special powers... :-(

06 Jan 23 - 07:31 AM (#4161480)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Where there is shared expertise in cross-domains and disciplines there is more to be learned but when there is no sharing of data we handicap the search for truths. People are organic data streams capable of great things in collaboration. Fear and greed still interfere in research.
If Steve could even once give examples of his complaints you would find he was fooled by humor he can't understand or when I MAKE AN HONEST MISTAKE. Mostly he has another misguided agenda,

06 Jan 23 - 07:35 AM (#4161481)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Steve. It may help if you cut him a bit more slack though. I think your observations are correct but I reckon that is just differences in how people communicate and, in this case, does it really matter? Yes, misinformation needs to be put straight but unless it directly affects me or my loved ones, I would be happy just pointing out the fallacies and leaving it to others to make their own minds up. If does affect me as in, for instance, the stance that the Tories are doing a good job, I will move heaven and earth to put it right. But precognition, god, the flying spagetti monster? Unless someone tries to force that belief on me, I just try to mention that it may be bollocks and leave it at that. I often fail but, hey, I am only human. Unlike some ;-)

06 Jan 23 - 07:41 AM (#4161483)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Lo and behold - a post appears, before I hit enter on mine, that I consider to be mainly bollocks. Organic data streams? What are they? Humour he can't understand? If someone does not understand it, it is not humourous! But does it reduce my quality of life? Nah. Do other people see it as bollocks? Well, if a Gnome of limited intelligence can work it out, I'm sure others can :-D

06 Jan 23 - 07:41 AM (#4161485)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are several different schools of theoretical physics. One is called super symmetry. It expects many new force carrier particles and names the with an s like selectrons. They reveal themselves in math quite elegantly but present a problem when it comes to actual observation because they may occupy different dimensions. Supersymmetry is closely linked to string theory.

Later more different approaches can be discussed like brane theory and multiverse theories.

06 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM (#4161487)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Yes, Donuel. I understand that it is theoretical physics yet in your initial post you said

"But what about reality? If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible."

That looks remarkably like you are stating it as a fact to me. I understand it is not but the more gullible may believe it is. I am tryng to help by pointing out it may not be true. When you say you want the truth, please ensure that you tell the truth as well.

06 Jan 23 - 08:40 AM (#4161493)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

I pity the weary traveller who asks Donuel for directions. I imagine that they would never reach their destination.

06 Jan 23 - 12:56 PM (#4161503)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion

Oh, geez. This is why I studied history.

06 Jan 23 - 01:14 PM (#4161507)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Cutting someone slack who is peddling deliberate misinformation and obfuscation simply means that nonsense is allowed to infest the forum, Dave. This place can be better than that.

Nice one, Charmion. Luckily, I studied natural history, so much of the physics goes over my head. But when I do make the effort to delve and find his stuff wanting, I end up thinking that everything he says needs checking. That's annoying.

06 Jan 23 - 01:22 PM (#4161508)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The Daily Heil peddles deliberate misinformation, Steve, so I just don't read it. Fair enough, we all read posts on here and some are unwelcome but I find my own personal filter is pretty effective at sifting out cobblers :-)

06 Jan 23 - 01:24 PM (#4161509)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion

The thing with studying history -- natural or any other kind -- is that inquiry begins with evidence (e.g., a bunch of tattered letters in a long-sealed file box, or a weird new finch), and continues through searching for and examining more evidence. Any speculation that is not briskly confirmed by evidence gets dumped, or the other historians will laugh and point, and stop inviting the speculator to symposia.

And that, gentlemen, is simplicity.

06 Jan 23 - 01:29 PM (#4161510)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

BTW Donuel. I just remembered that the acronym KISS is, or was, keep it short and simple. Maybe applying both would help.

06 Jan 23 - 03:19 PM (#4161519)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well said, Charmion (again).

KISS means "keep it simple, stupid." I doubt whether he knew that that's what it means.

06 Jan 23 - 03:21 PM (#4161520)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Probably didn't have space on the line.

06 Jan 23 - 03:24 PM (#4161521)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The Daily Mail puts out factual information which is selective and which is subtly mixed with comment. Good journalism attempts to separate news and comment. Donuel peddles misinformation. There's a difference. At least three, if not more, people here besides me have called him out.

06 Jan 23 - 03:26 PM (#4161522)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes he did, Maggie. I've just tried it.

06 Jan 23 - 03:52 PM (#4161528)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I remember that one too!

Fairy Nuff, Steve. Just thought it may be worth trying a different approach. I shall take my own advice and not press the issue :-)

06 Jan 23 - 03:57 PM (#4161529)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

For completeness: Donuel has this bit right: If everything was symmetrical we would not exist but somewhere the symmetry broke and our universe became possible. Had the Big Bang resulted in equal amounts of matter and antimatter, there'd have been a massive fireworks display, leaving only a cloud of gamma radiation.

Working out what broke symmetry is left as an exercise to the advanced theoretical physicist: your task, if you choose to accept it, is to permit symmetry to be broken without also breaking the astonishingly close agreement between currently-accepted physics and observation; predictions which can't be tested won't count. You are permitted to use both sides of the paper, but not at the same time. Good luck.

07 Jan 23 - 03:07 AM (#4161563)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Sorry MaJoC but the asymmetry between matter and anti-matter is simply that. As far as I know "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" does not have an equivalent "every thing has an equal and opposite thing". Do we know that something "broke symmetry" or has there never been perfect symmetry in the natural universe? I understand that this is theoretical physics and is fascinating to some but to sell theory as fact is misleading and that is what I am trying to point out.

07 Jan 23 - 04:07 AM (#4161566)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I was going to mention earlier but forgot. As an example of keeping complex subjects simple, the excellent Bill Bryson book, A short history of nearly everything is very good indeed.

I know that Bryson is not an acclaimed scientist but he is a great Anglo-American writer and humourist that has the knack of explaining many subjects in an easy to digest and entertaining way. As the explanations are often his take on science I would not rely on his views being spot on but they certainly make the subject easier to understand.

And just for you, Donuel, I must comment that he mentions Richard Feynman very early on. Which is what must have reminded me but it took me days to look it up :-)

07 Jan 23 - 06:15 AM (#4161578)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What is simple are people who accept shit without question. Take the corporate organization. I see people who like to be systemized. One guy says everything will be fine if you accept that I am your boss and you will be my worker, Besides this BS website is a bit on the WASPY side you guys often accept your own nonsense without question. For example, you might say Ralph died of natural causes. I don't know anyone who died of unnatural causes.
What would an unnatural cause be? Being murdered by a time traveling multi dimensional insect?


Explain the universe in 4 simple sentences. Its a fools errend. It was tried in the Bible and we know how that BS turned out. So I will not bother to say 3 specific quarks are required to make a proton or a neutron. I leave most of your questions open to your own google endeavor. Be that as it may. You might realize that politics is a lot like comedy football - despite hecklers once in a while you find a path to open field and you score but most of the time its just a bunch of hitting and small losses. Maybe that's why football is so popular.

In conclusion, thinking outside the box is close to reality. You are probably in a box made by others. Your own box is preferable, whatever it is, even if it writing a Jewish version of Citizen Caine or Mein Kampf. Thats right the universe is on the absurd side and we try to systematize it according to rules we make up ourselves. Religions - we made them up. RIGHTS - we made them up. So we might as well make up good ones.

07 Jan 23 - 06:27 AM (#4161580)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Go and have a nice cup of tea.

07 Jan 23 - 07:40 AM (#4161586)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Well, sorry Donuel, but that is the biggest load of twaddle I have seen in a long time. Both style and content are lacking. There is no focus. I have no idea what you are referring to with most of it. There may be some gems of insight in there but they are lost in all the rubbish.

I know you are not in the least bit interested in my critique but please feel free to take or ignore my advice as you will. Be clear with what you want to say. Think about your target audience. If you disagree with anything I say just say so. I will not take offence. Other than that, unless you want me to address something specific, I'm afraid I must consign you to my list of people to ignore.

07 Jan 23 - 08:04 AM (#4161591)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"What is simple are people who accept shit without question....you guys often accept your own nonsense without question..."

Would you like us to accept your, er, shit and nonsense without question? Or were you trying to be ironic?

By the way, we all know what dying via "natural causes" does and doesn't mean. It's a linguistic device, not a technical term. We can help you with that if you'd like us to. Don't worry - you can question it if you like...

07 Jan 23 - 04:17 PM (#4161651)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I find the absurd responses pure comedy.
I don't think Einstein bounced his material off a crowd, he just had a handful of select friends and had his wife do most of his math. Later he gave the proceeds of his Nobel prize to her.

Its getting to the point where dictators and comics sound similar to me. When comics die on stage they sort of look like Khadaffi looked right before he actually died. Between the two I prefer comics
Some people march to the beat of a different drummer but I don't march and seldom care for drumming. Social media brings out the ass hole in folks for some reason.

Below the line I don't hear an original thought as much as I hear a critique. Rage drives social media as much as comedy. This site reminds me of Portlandia in that the cast take everything so seriously which makes the whole thing a comedy to the observer. I think Steve thinks his posts are timeless enduring and profound but the real punchline is that they are not. Like others, he does not know the difference between comedy and a normal narrative. Free association is costly in the real world but online its free. I know most of my posts reflect the current level of coffee in my bloodstream. By the law of averages I bet at least one mudcatter here has a lava lamp. By the same reason not one here has the answer to what the hell is dark matter or energy.

07 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM (#4161652)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

BTW Dave is on point with my opinion of his unread critique. Ain't that typical. Dave there is room for a new superhero called the Convincer, he wins every argument or thinks he does.

07 Jan 23 - 05:22 PM (#4161656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your inferiority complex is showing through. By the way, I know nothing of social media. Have never indulged in any of it, not for a single minute.

07 Jan 23 - 05:48 PM (#4161661)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> the Convincer

He's hunkered down in Mar-a-Lago.

07 Jan 23 - 06:24 PM (#4161665)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More brain droppings; I am tolerant but I am not so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance.
I can be arrogant but not smug. Dave is smug but not arrogant. you know who is both.

07 Jan 23 - 06:31 PM (#4161668)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

'Tis you.

"O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”

07 Jan 23 - 07:04 PM (#4161671)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Ignoring really is the only way forward now Steve. It worked with thingy and whatsit who's names have now been erased from my RAM :-D

07 Jan 23 - 07:20 PM (#4161676)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

One other thing (hope you don't mind, Dave...): Dave and I are both northerners of similar age and (more or less!) similar politics and outlook on life. We have never met though I hope we can put that right some day. We have differed numerous times when it comes to perspective on various issues, but we have always managed to agree to disagree if necessary. Despite any differences we may have, our transactions have been nothing less than amicable every time.

On a number of occasions recently you have made some rather feeble attempts to drive a wedge between us by bigging up Dave and dissing me. That rather unsubtle approach has been quite apparent in recent times. Well don't think I don't know what you're up to, and I can tell you that you are on a hiding to nothing. I actually find this to be childish and I'm really sorry that you appear to be unable to come across here as a positive and cheery fellow who can express himself clearly and be humble enough to realise that you are no real authority on anything that you think you are. A good scientist is a good communicator. That's one hurdle you fall at every time. You really don't have to be like this. You need to take two steps back and reconsider the way you approach the rest of us here. Dave has given you good advice. As you won't listen to me (why should you? Why should anybody!), at least listen to him.

07 Jan 23 - 07:21 PM (#4161677)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Cross-posted there, Dave. You could be right!

07 Jan 23 - 07:30 PM (#4161678)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Anyway, enough of this. I have to go to Specsavers tomorrow. I think it's the Launceston branch, but if I find I've been misinformed and it's really the Barnard Castle branch, I'll call in on you Dave en route. I need to drive from Bude to Barnard Castle anyway, just to test my eyesight, don't you know...!

08 Jan 23 - 03:02 AM (#4161692)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A wedge is whenever you feel you are not the center of attention.

08 Jan 23 - 03:33 AM (#4161693)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

sheesh. Is that why you start so many threads, Donuel? I would probably often enjoy your posts if they stayed on my level....

08 Jan 23 - 10:28 AM (#4161717)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You might enjoy them if you got a time machine. Be sure to set it to PRESENT.

08 Jan 23 - 01:37 PM (#4161736)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

We'd all enjoy them more if they were focused, well-expressed, well-researched and accurate.

08 Jan 23 - 04:38 PM (#4161757)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"By the way, I know nothing of social media. Have never indulged in any of it, not for a single minute."
quote: the guy who complains about internet trolls.

I know some other guys who constantly spewed a dehumanization of the Jews

08 Jan 23 - 05:16 PM (#4161758)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

As we are bringing up random irrelevances, I have heard some people enjoy massaging custard into their buttocks! There is a deep meaning to this but you lesser mortals will not understand:-D

08 Jan 23 - 05:38 PM (#4161761)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If it wasn't for your enemas you wouldn't have any sober friends at all.

08 Jan 23 - 05:58 PM (#4161763)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The fact is, old son, whether you like it or not, that I have never spent one second on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter or any similar wastes of space and am not registered to any of them. So yes, I can say what I said and I don't need some idiot trying to cast aspersions on that. Just stick to what you know, why don't you, you loser. And I don't understand your allusion to dehumanisation of Jews. Perhaps you could enlarge on that so that I can consider suing you. You disgust me, frankly.

08 Jan 23 - 06:07 PM (#4161766)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home

Trying though Donuel is I think Mudcat counts as social media. His other allegations are nothing short of slanderous though. Typical keyboard warrior.

08 Jan 23 - 06:07 PM (#4161767)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

Why would you think that the BS part of Mudcat is not social media? It's a pretty niche element of society admitted but it is still media that is social. Unruly, sometimes unpleasant and a lot smaller than the big hitters already named I admit.

08 Jan 23 - 06:18 PM (#4161768)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It's the only place I come to to post anything like a lot, and I value it. You can't post photos or set up chatty groups, etc., it's agreeably old-fashioned and it's absolutely nothing like those other horrors I mentioned. You can't come here to groom kids and you can't promote suicide and self-harm or promote terrorism. We are a particular narrow section of society, bound together by our interest in traditional music. Yes I know we can stray from that but I for one make it my priority to scan the above-line list every time I come here, even though a lot of the time I don't have much to say there. If you want to call Mudcat "social media," good for you. But I think I can see quite a few stark differences between it and those other places, even if you can't.

08 Jan 23 - 06:54 PM (#4161771)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler

Sociable media?

Robin

08 Jan 23 - 07:21 PM (#4161774)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"have never spent one second on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter or any similar wastes of space and am not registered to any of them."

You have said before that you have spent time on Facebook. I am not registered with any of those sites but i do read some pages which are available without the need to register in order to access them. They are not all a waste of space either.

Some of the exchanges here in the BS section do resemble some of the behaviour found on those sites. It is not so much the platform but more the behaviour of the individual posters.

08 Jan 23 - 07:49 PM (#4161780)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

My car is an Aixam Mega City electric car. The last time I looked there were only six registered on the road in this country. Information on these cars is hard to get.

I've joined two Aixam groups on Facebook and received and given information in both these groups. Valuable stuff both ways. I've also joined a G-Wizz group, a couple of battery building groups and some EV building groups. There are founts of knowledge out there that are well worth tapping.

My car sat on my driveway, not working, for over six months before I found out how to fix it. The information that mattered came from the G-Wizz Facebook group.

I've never posted or received abusive stuff. No kids were harmed at any point.

08 Jan 23 - 08:02 PM (#4161786)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"You have said before that you have spent time on Facebook."

Really? The only time I ever look at Facebook is to find out what's happening when Mudcat is down. Sometimes it will let me look, other times times it won't. I am not a member and I don't post, and never will. Mrs Steve and I are not on Facebook. Most of our other nearest and dearest are, but not once have we ever looked at what they do there. If you think that means I am "on Facebook," then our perspectives clearly differ.

08 Jan 23 - 08:04 PM (#4161787)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And by the way,

"Some of the exchanges here in the BS section do resemble some of the behaviour found on those sites."

How would you know if you're not on them??

09 Jan 23 - 02:32 AM (#4161810)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The allusion to the dehumanisation of Jews is as arcane, obscure and mystic as the one to massaging custard into buttocks, Steve. You will never understand it because you are not "special". Like I keep saying, best to ignore it.

I go on Facebook regularly and Mudcat, even the BS section, is nothing like it. You cannot post photos and videos on here. The unregisteted public cannot even comment on the BS section. There are so few of us here that moderation is possible. The moderation team and even the site owner are approachable. I disagree with some of Steve's views on Facebook but to liken it to Mudcat is beyond ridiculous.

09 Jan 23 - 02:50 AM (#4161811)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

I am not a member of any of those sites. I read some sites which are open to the public, just like you say that you do. Facebook sites can be moderated by those who set them up. The Mudcat Facebook site is an example of that.

Not all social media sites are bad. To say so is just plain daft.

09 Jan 23 - 03:23 AM (#4161814)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I agree with that, Rain Dog, and that is where I disagree with Steve. One good point he makes though is that by being members of Facebook we are helping to support the groups that are harmful. I stay a member in the (probably vain) hope that it Will eventually get its act together and axe the ability to start hate/ conspiracy/ self-harm etc. groups.

09 Jan 23 - 03:53 AM (#4161818)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I’m with Raindog and Dave. I do use Facebook, mostly for family contacts and FB Groups in which I have a particular interest - Tall Ship sailing, specific guitar groups, a couple of Outdoors groups, and a few others. However, it’s the only SM site I use - Mrs Backwoodsperson has a Twitter account and follows a particular dog-breed group, but that’s pretty much the sum total of her involvement.

And, like Dave, I have reservations about my (unintentional and involuntary) part in enabling harmful groups on FB but, also like Dave, I continue in the hope that it will sooner or later clean up its act.

With regard to the trolling and other nasty stuff that goes on on FB, by restricting the Groups I belong to, I avoid much of it. And, exactly as on this forum, it can be ignored and simply scrolled past.

09 Jan 23 - 04:29 AM (#4161820)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It's a free country and I would never shout at people simply because they're "on Facebook." Some people send their kids to private schools. Some jump the queue by paying for private medicine. Some enjoy Wagner's music even though he was rabid antisemite. I haven't checked the ethical failings of the banks which have my savings. I eat crumpets made by a company that donates to the Tories. For me, the extensive harm that Facebook does is in plain sight and it's just a bridge too far for me. Life was fine without it and still is for me. That's all.

09 Jan 23 - 06:02 AM (#4161822)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Senoufou

I enjoy being on our local Facebook to see what's going on in our village. It's very useful (road closures, escaped goats, opening times for the pub and the shop etc). I rarely post on there, just sometimes to ask a question or respond to our shepherdesses who run the sheep sanctuary. No trolls or nastiness (thank goodness).

09 Jan 23 - 06:03 AM (#4161823)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

As for massaging custard into buttocks, Dave, that would just about become vaguely interesting to me if it was someone else's buttocks. You didn't specify...

09 Jan 23 - 06:17 AM (#4161825)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I hear that you can ringfence your own Facebook activities. But knowing what I know about the harm that can be done to vulnerable people, the lack of control over children using the site, the trolling and hate speech that often goes untouched and the various incitements to violence, self-harm and suicide, etc. etc., it's a line that I personally won't cross. That's just me and for all the reasons I mentioned before I can't criticise those who come to a different decision. To do that would be hypocritical. The company that owns Facebook, etc., makes billions a year in profits. I might think differently if some of that money was used to employ armies of moderators who would pre-moderate every post that was intended for the public domain and close the accounts of people who continually violate the rules. Yes I know there are issues with that. Far too much profit, far too little control going on. No Wild West for me, thanks, and no unintended support for it either.

09 Jan 23 - 07:36 AM (#4161834)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'll keep it simple, I do not respect white nationalists of any nationality, even those with colonial values and a social caste system of classism. The hypocrisy of the 'love me I'm a liberal' self-proclaimed lefty is due to old age but that is no excuse. That I do not respect such a person is not slanderous, it is a fact. I do not care if the person wants to identify themselves as a botanist of a certain age because I can separate that from their darker anti-social aspect of their behavior. Even a one-man cult is still a cult. You guessed it, I do not like cults.

09 Jan 23 - 07:49 AM (#4161836)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

You would think people could spell cu*t right wouldn't you...

09 Jan 23 - 09:10 AM (#4161852)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It would pay you to take note of the people who have seen through your vile nonsense in the last couple of days both in this thread and your precognition one. That latest personal attack shows that you never actually take anything on board. So many of your posts reveal that you've gone through life not learning lessons properly, so I can't say I'm surprised to see you carrying on digging. Disappointing, of course.

10 Jan 23 - 08:07 AM (#4161954)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are different flavors of white nationalists and I have surmised where one is on the spectrum including myself. I understand Steve can't 'smell' himself as the hateful bigoted troll he is. There is even the kind of denier who can partially accept certain facts and still be prejudiced to the contrary. Its as common as mixed feelings.
I know what amazes me does not amaze others. For example the DNA packet in sperm that will express a female will still corkscrew swim but go slower and lives longer than a male producing sperm. I accept that humans have temporary organs. Ther are probably thousands of things we will disagree.

10 Jan 23 - 09:00 AM (#4161959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

To be simple the most fundamental difference between us is joy, satisfaction and happiness. For me it comes from the inside.

For you it comes from the outside like money, food, and travel. Like a punchline that is tacked on instead of a scenario or bit that is funny.
After joy I would say empathy is a second major difference.
Its like the value of whats inside a person and not what they look like.

If I had a post that was like a classroom, your behavior in that class would not be acceptable by the students or teachers. Especially if they had to pay for that education. I revel that humanity can be enhanced.
You like that humanity can be controlled, obstructed and interrupted,.

10 Jan 23 - 09:51 AM (#4161963)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Apart from that, everything OK then? :-)

10 Jan 23 - 01:53 PM (#4161973)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty,iwhich our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
I would say I am religiously curious but not about religiosity.

10 Jan 23 - 03:30 PM (#4161982)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Steve confuses the word mysterious with obscure.

10 Jan 23 - 04:26 PM (#4161987)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I regard your alleged mysteriousness as pure bullshit, but that's just me. Keep digging.

10 Jan 23 - 07:54 PM (#4162004)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

steve sings

10 Jan 23 - 08:00 PM (#4162005)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness."

Quote: Albert Einstien

10 Jan 23 - 08:43 PM (#4162009)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I must have said it on this forum a dozen times: I reject religions, and religiosity, because there's no explanation for anything in nature therein. It's an intellectual copout. It's a way of finding easy, reassuring, false answers and it stunts the pursuit of science, the search for real knowledge. It's not possible to explain the world and the universe by confecting a supernatural, all-knowing, all-powerful creator of everything, without beginning or end, who is himself utterly beyond explanation. Quite often, the purveyors of such remarkable beings like to couch things in such ways as to have the rest of us thinking that they are somehow "mystical" or more "spiritual." Those two words are almost redundant in my lexicon. The world and the nature it holds, and the universe beyond, are wonderful enough, amazing in their beauty and diversity, with lots still to explain via scientific endeavour. There's so much to engender curiosity, wonder, awe, delight and edification there, with no need whatsoever to take heed of the flights of evidence-innocent fancy that we've seen in a couple of recent threads here. The real beauty of the world, including not only nature but also the human endeavours of music, art and literature, is contained in the enquiry those things generate in us. That's enough for me, and I don't need God, magic or fairies at the bottom of the garden. By the way, unless Einstein is talking about science, he's no greater than anyone else!

10 Jan 23 - 10:06 PM (#4162018)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You really know how to completly miss the point.

So back to cosmology according to a NOBEL PRIZE WINNER Penrose

10 Jan 23 - 10:33 PM (#4162022)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

After you called Einstein's thoughts total Bull Shit you now try to say you have a better idea? BTW he's not talking about the glory of religion but instead the power of mystery in our history. Its OK we already know you are no Einstien.

10 Jan 23 - 10:53 PM (#4162026)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

We were living in Virginia when a family from Oklahoma arrived and attended our church. They had a son about the same age as my 12 year old brother.

After church one day this boy started bragging about his abilities as a horse rider and trainer. The older boys in the group were polite, nodding their heads and telling him, Ah. Oh, wow. Oh yeah, I can see how that happened....

My brother spoke up. I don't believe it, he said loudly. This kid is lying.

11 Jan 23 - 03:02 AM (#4162032)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

One of the most amazing, yet frustrating, wonders of nature is how someone can see another person's words and glean an entirely different meaning to the rest of us...

11 Jan 23 - 04:06 AM (#4162038)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel's entire recent focus appears to be personal attacks. I think I've worked out what that's a sign of. Hands up anyone else, by the way, who thought I said that I thought Einstein's ideas were total bullshit. I'm definitely no Einstein, in exactly the same way that Donuel is no scientist.

11 Jan 23 - 04:25 AM (#4162039)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Steve:

"The world and the nature it holds, and the universe beyond, are wonderful enough, amazing in their beauty and diversity, with lots still to explain via scientific endeavour. There's so much to engender curiosity, wonder, awe, delight and edification there.... The real beauty of the world, including not only nature but also the human endeavours of music, art and literature, is contained in the enquiry those things generate in us."

Albert:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here. If anyone sees a hidden conflict between our philosophies, do apprise me. By the way, the whole essence of science is to endeavour to solve the mysterious (of course, there are practical aspects too...). The starting point is contained in the humility that we don't yet understand enough to provide the answers, that gods of gaps don't cut it, and the delicious thing is that some answers may never be found. The process has be the scientific method and we have to eschew the temptations of the mystical and the religious and anything else that attempts to sidetrack that. In no way does that marginalise human imagination, without which there wouldn't be the enthusiasm to keep looking. Just beware of the holy men, the mystics, the precognistas and the snake oil salesmen en route...

11 Jan 23 - 06:57 AM (#4162051)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science..."

Well I regard your alleged mysteriousness as pure bullshit, but that's just me. Keep digging. Steve Quote

OR

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here.Steve quote.

Did you lie the first time or the second time or both?

When I do not respond to your baseless claims you become more trollish.
I will no longer tolerate your senseless trollism without showing how aggressively you attack every single statement you think I make.
You are still obstructing the basic tenants of cosmology with remarks that are not contributing. It is my opinion everyone should have some means of knowing where and why they are here. You can stop being against it. Or can you?
Simply put it is you who are adrift.

11 Jan 23 - 08:20 AM (#4162056)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

If you say so. You have a simple solution in the interests of regaining your cool: stop the attacks and just talk sense instead. Brave new world!

11 Jan 23 - 08:37 AM (#4162059)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A simple question
What kind of troll are you?
Who's against everything
It seems I'm not the only one
Who objects to your swill
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of clown is he?
What does he know of life?
Why can't he cast away?
His mask of clay
And live his life
Why can't he stay away?
Like any normal guy
And maybe then I'll know
What kind of fool he is
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of lies are his?
That lied with every post
That whispered depraved words of hate
And lied the most
Why can't he contribute?
Like any other guy
And maybe then I'll know
Why do narcissists just lie.

11 Jan 23 - 08:52 AM (#4162060)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

By the way, you quoted the Einstein in two separate posts. The first time, you failed to attribute it, presumably hoping we'd think it was your wisdom. My response to that was dismissive of your general demeanour down the weeks, months and years, not of the substantive, which, as I indicated later, I largely concur with. Instead of calling me names, perhaps you should try to be a little more straightforward?

11 Jan 23 - 09:11 AM (#4162062)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

And you bit nastily didn't you.
Don't expect silence
to your nonsense
in the future.

11 Jan 23 - 09:30 AM (#4162065)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I expect more convoluted nonsense. Anyway, enough for now. I have soup going cold.

11 Jan 23 - 09:59 AM (#4162067)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Well Steve, as you seem to be a Holocaust denying, white supremacist troll with no sense of humour I suppose I should ignore you but, for some reason, I don't seem to pick up on that. What I do see is Donuel who, when faced with a point he cannot sensibly respond to starts to spout mystical nonsense, claiming it is either Dyslexia or his "special" way of seeing the world. When that is shown up for the complete bollocks it is, the personal attacks start.

For the third time in as many days, I can only suggest that we ignore the tantrums. They will either stop or he will get stopped eventually.

11 Jan 23 - 10:19 AM (#4162071)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And we don't want to make him poorly, do we? :-)

11 Jan 23 - 10:56 AM (#4162073)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I went into Therapeutic hypnosis for the mysteries, not the mysticism.
Little did I know it would lead to big bucks recruitment but ethics made me say no.
Careful with the defamation or I'll sue you for 100,000 dollhairs.

11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM (#4162074)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Please, Dog, make it stop…

11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM (#4162075)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

A-a-and…100!

11 Jan 23 - 11:21 AM (#4162079)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

That you would think I am handicapped and seek to make fun of it shows the kind of low-life yahoos you are. I don't think being a dog hater and a magic fanatic are handicaps, but they are eye-rolling.
I hold the members of this social media forum with high respect except the usual suspects.

11 Jan 23 - 11:24 AM (#4162080)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Here's a simple hint and tip:

Buy a large box of Maltesers. Forget you bought them for a year. Make sure they're three months out of date before opening. Result: a box full of chewy ones. Nirvana!

(This has happened to us in the last fifteen minutes...)

11 Jan 23 - 11:29 AM (#4162081)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Does it work with a box of magic mushrooms?

11 Jan 23 - 11:49 AM (#4162084)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Only if you're a fun guy, so it would work for us, er, "usual suspects" but not for....


Oh, never mind... :-)

11 Jan 23 - 11:53 AM (#4162086)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

May your next cruise have a plumbing breakdown and a Noro virus outbreak.

11 Jan 23 - 12:01 PM (#4162090)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The abuse has progressed to wishing harm on people. My my, what petulance!

11 Jan 23 - 01:12 PM (#4162101)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Hey, Dave, a thousand Asian curses on anyone who wishes harm on other people!


Er...

11 Jan 23 - 01:34 PM (#4162104)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You thought this was an argument, no its abuse.
Know what cheers me up and not feel this is all about abuse?
A sing-along...Everybody out there at work or home Lets sing along;
Why are there so many songs about mem'ries
and whats on the other side
mem'ries are visions but only illusions
and mem'ries have nothing to hide
so we've been told and some choose to believe it,
I know their wrong wait and see
someday you'll find it the mem'rie connection
the lovers the screamers and me.
all of us under its spells
we know that its probably tragic

Have you been half asleep?
and have you heard voices
You've heard them calling your name
Is this the sweet sound ?
that calls the old seniors
the voice might be one and the same
I've heard it too many times to ignore it
Its something that might come to be
someday day you'll find it
the right diagnosis
End stage Alzhiemers to be
la da da dee dum dum da lalee lee la loo.

11 Jan 23 - 01:40 PM (#4162105)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Please, Dog, make it stop…"

Do you mean "Please! Doggerel! Make it stop!"

11 Jan 23 - 01:53 PM (#4162108)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Repeating yourself is the first symptom.

11 Jan 23 - 02:29 PM (#4162114)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The next symptom can be recipe mistakes but from what I see here you should seriously get checked out like Nigel.

11 Jan 23 - 04:55 PM (#4162134)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Nigel Slater produces lovely recipes and I have several of his books.

12 Jan 23 - 12:30 PM (#4162228)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The broadcaster and food critic does not sound like our Nigel who said he was in the health field and does not present as gay.

12 Jan 23 - 12:52 PM (#4162232)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Wanna make a big thing of that?

12 Jan 23 - 01:04 PM (#4162233)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

My favourite curse is "May the hole in your arse heal up"

Arabic I believe

13 Jan 23 - 05:55 AM (#4162290)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I started this to simplify particle physics and cosmology but the intellectuals from the UK reduced the topic to assholes

13 Jan 23 - 06:12 AM (#4162292)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well this is how you started to "simplify" things for us:

"You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton. Waves yes, but no trace of quanta packets of energy. Also, questions like why, can often not be answered. Problems that can't be solved require a new approach.
So here goes...Basically, there are two buckets of stuff, one has matter and the other bucket has force carriers. There are six kinds of electrons and sixteen kinds of quarks. The other buck has particles we call force carriers which are phons of the electrodynamic force. Gravitons are thought to be the force carrier of gravity, The strong nuclear force has carriers called gluons which I think have eight gluons and the weak nuclear force has three carriers. That's four fundamental forces. Yep we are looking for a fifth but it is inconclusive so far."

I'm afraid that this attempt to "simplify" things would have had your lecture theatre emptied within minutes as your students headed out to find some headache pills. Migraine in the case of the highlighted sentence.

So don't blame us!

15 Jan 23 - 12:46 PM (#4162531)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Simply put two Germans Haber and Bosch, in 1910 made it possible to expand the population from 1.6 billion to what it is today. They found a way to break triple-bonded N2 gas into a form (ammonia) that plants could use. If not for their innovation you might not be here today due to starvation. But that is totally uncertain.

15 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM (#4162561)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well it was hardly a saintly achievement, was it? Ammonia thus manufactured was used to make explosives in WW1, and its use in agriculture, to which you allude, has caused soil degradation and pollution on a huge scale of land, rivers, lakes and oceans. Oxides of nitrogen are serious atmospheric pollutants which are in part attributable to ammonia production. You could claim that it increased world food production but you can't claim that it improved food quality. Quite the opposite, and its environmental impact was and is devastating. So there's no such thing as a free lunch.

15 Jan 23 - 05:41 PM (#4162586)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

True, you can blow things up or grow food or both. Even C-4 is nitrogen derived. Germany made a rainbow of new colors out of hydrocarbons in coal but they also invented Mustard gas.
Survivors in London owe their pensions to Werner Von Braun for his advances in rocketry. They even helped educate Einstien but chased him out of Germany but that's not a simple story.

16 Jan 23 - 11:04 AM (#4162655)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"Look children, see the pretty red tide on our shores"?

16 Jan 23 - 10:38 PM (#4162709)
Subject: RE: BS: keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm here for fun. Steve is here for adulation but can't get no satisfaction andhe tries andhe tries...

17 Jan 23 - 06:14 AM (#4162725)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

That is a rock-solid troll post by any definition of "troll" you'd care to adopt.

17 Jan 23 - 12:32 PM (#4162766)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Just a response to your (contribution)

Now back to cosmology:
The very small does reflect the random potential
and luck in life but little else. The universe at large has many more similarities to life and anthropomorphic comparisons.
Earth rotates once every 24 hours lately, It used to be faster.
Venus rotates so slowly its day is slower than its year.
Life on Earth has adjusted itself to the 24 hour schedule and even to its slower seasons. The Universe resembles the concepts of time we do on a very strange way. The early embryonic universe saw no light like we do then the age of light began. In a very long time, the starlight will fade to darkness leaving only black holes. It is one very long day in the light but darkness will return when the stars run out out of fuel and black holes eat most of the remnants. What comes after that may be a quantum event that begins a new big bang but we don't really know. Somewhere there is the oldest black hole and we don't yet know what or how it formed, but its there. It is like finding our first grey hair a sign of our impending death. Other anthropomorphic comparisons can be made even between gravity and new creation. Eary man has been making these comparisons for a long time. Many religious texts explore these.
Today we are asking the web telescope to answer more of our questions.

17 Jan 23 - 04:51 PM (#4162781)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

More nonsensical verbiage from you is a blatant attempt to distract from the fact that you TROLLED me earlier today. Well that doesn't work for me, I'm afraid. You are an absolute disgrace.

19 Jan 23 - 07:05 AM (#4162922)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You poor dear you are so victimized in your own delusions.

Since we are made of and by the universe, it is only natural to see the similarities of life to some universal truths.
"We are made of star stuff"

19 Jan 23 - 08:30 AM (#4162941)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As you know the universe is not just expanding it is accelerating which means there is a whole lot of nothing in its future just like the lifespan of an organism.

19 Jan 23 - 09:00 AM (#4162947)
Subject: RE: BS: keep it honest
From: Donuel

In the past, I have been grateful for some of the people and things that Steve introduced to me. Christopher Hitchins comes to mind.

19 Jan 23 - 09:04 AM (#4162950)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"it is accelerating"

No it isn't, Mr cosmologist. Its expansion is accelerating.

19 Jan 23 - 11:15 AM (#4162965)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Mr. Hitchins was always the contrarian with elegance and humor.
Steve is always the contrarian.
Still it is good to know he at least knows what I talk about at times.

19 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM (#4162971)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes I do, unfortunately.

19 Jan 23 - 01:00 PM (#4162979)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Such is the irreconcilable differences between the past fact-based mind and the ironic mind, the linear mind and the dimensional mind. We know a bird flies best with two wings than one.

Socrates did not leave any writing but lets pretend he did exist.
He supposedly said an educated mind knows how little it knows.
Today the human species knows less and less about more and more of the universe. Quantum mechanics can measure more of the tiny but we don't know why it does, We have tools to change DNA yet we don't know where we can reliably cut and paste to cure disease however using half of it (RNA) we have made some great new vaccines, cosmology is in a quandary about galaxy formation black holes and inflation etc. We are doing better than superstition mysticism and the supernatural but there is even more we don't know with our new scientific discoveries. I expect that the questions about nothingness will reveal many mysteries such as zero point energy and other concepts yet unknown or misunderstood.

19 Jan 23 - 01:51 PM (#4162983)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have had a question about entropy and our universe and whether it gets reset with a new big bang expression of our universe.

We know things tend to "go down hill" or become more chaotic toward a lower energy state so that there may come a day of the big rip and disassembly of neutrons and protons. Could this lower energy state still end up capable of a repeat big bang since energy can not be created or destroyed?

It is guaranteed we will never know. It is not often I submit something will not happen but evolution of our species will probably not extend into such a far-reaching near infinity.

The universe is stranger than we know or even that we can ever know

20 Jan 23 - 01:57 PM (#4163043)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The biggest restraint on discoveries is that research is only where the money is. There is a lot of Cancer research because that is where the money is.
I am only tangentially associated with research grants. While great leeway
is offered there are few grants for pure research. The discoveries made along the way come from data that doesn't fit and is unexpected. Other times scientists
have to reverse engineer into the future to get to a needed result that did not exist before almost like star trek sci-fi. The mysteries are fun to me so I can fill them with my dreams.
The scientist is bound to the data alone and has to restrain themselves from conclusions. Another barrier to discovery besides money is a compartmentalization
that keeps more remarkable findings away from the public and scientific sectors.
There are other political barriers to research. A government shutdown can wipe out a 10 year project by interrupting a process in health and life sciences.
What a waste. Agreeing on language and definitions are also barriers. There are 40 or 50 definitions of life. Intelligence has many more definitions
There are sociological barriers regarding shaming a scientist for going in a atypical direction. THOSE that ignore that social shaming by exploring beyond the
status quo do well and often lead to new companies offering new services, processes, and materials. The social shamers are practically a cult.
REMOVING these barriers is not likely but I do imagine what may have advanced without such barriers. Like a dream of a technocrat, this imagined utopia has
no limits.
I have no contact with astronomical or physics research but I have become aware of the greatest successes and failures. One failure was the Antarctic
observatory for exploring the early inflation of the universe. They don't talk about that one but we all know about The Webb and the LHC.
.

20 Jan 23 - 05:51 PM (#4163067)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Focus.

20 Jan 23 - 07:26 PM (#4163073)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I was focused on barriers to research and by extension - discoveries.

If you would like to focus on a science that can only be studied here on Earth it would be your fav. Biology.
I found a scientist that was experimenting on life that was 3.8 billion years old. What she learned is fascinating and far from simple.
In fact even you may find it challenging to follow the miraculous chemistry that turned into life.
interview regarding ancient DNA secrets

20 Jan 23 - 07:36 PM (#4163074)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Studying the origin of life is rather ambitious.

20 Jan 23 - 08:53 PM (#4163086)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I followed the "miraculous chemistry that turned into life" in an essay that I wrote fifty years ago at Imperial College. I still have that essay. I got an A for it. Had I referred to "miraculous chemistry" in that essay I'm guessing that a C+ might have been mine.

20 Jan 23 - 09:22 PM (#4163088)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm up to 153 definitions for life. We might have some agreement that panpsychism offers a virtual supernatural view of the building blocks of life from particles to chemicals. The arrogant conceit of our POV may be a barrier to even looking at this panpsychism possibility. We are a part of the universe seeking to know itself. As such it still needs a look, particularly at the two seemingly impossible steps life took in its early evolution.

21 Jan 23 - 08:12 PM (#4163145)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Gosh. Whatever...

21 Jan 23 - 09:31 PM (#4163146)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Bertrand Russel chimes in this discussion

25 Jan 23 - 04:56 PM (#4163530)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I don't make mistakes :) Mistakes made me. Failures and failed experiments are countless. But each one has some instructive quality.

It is said the early universe entered an inflation phase. I still prefer to see it as time distortion from immense mass concentration and not the status quo explanations.

27 Jan 23 - 01:47 PM (#4163682)
Subject: RE: BS: This shit ain't simple
From: Donuel

Most of you have heard that a search for quantum gravity has been unsuccessful. I theorize that relativity and quantum mechanics are already linked but trying to quantize gravity is the wrong approach.
They are already linked with wormholes and quantum entanglement. What I believe is really missing are dimensions we can't see.
I have seen other dimensions ( I think )when two nebulous globes passed through brick walls. Only me and my cat saw them. The other dimension could be a torus intruding in 3D space and not 2 globes. For example, in
a two-dimensional space, a globe passing through would look like a small circle getting bigger and then smaller. If space had a shape like a helix a straight line would not be the shortest route between 2 points but a spiral would. All orbits form a helix in time and of course, there is even DNA. The 3-D space we see is flat but higher dimensions probably curve.

So my ideas about space is about geometries we can't see. The dimensions we are used to can be stacked up to form the next higher dimension. Stack two dimensions up to get After time, the 5th dimension becomes very difficult to visualize unless you think of
displacement as a key. It is easy to think I am crazy but Brian Greene is starting to consider my way of thinking.
Brian Greene

My idea about black holes creating a singularity that forms a wormhole and then generates space from mass and energy is unique but even Penrose shows how black holes transmutes mass into space time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2EtTE9Czzo

27 Jan 23 - 02:09 PM (#4163683)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Many years ago a respected astrophysicist postulated that ladies with large bottoms cause the earth to rotate. This theory has not yet been refuted. Makes you think Dunnit...

27 Jan 23 - 03:07 PM (#4163689)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Brian Greene is American. Dave's bottom theory is UK?

27 Jan 23 - 03:28 PM (#4163690)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

A Brian may be involved...

27 Jan 23 - 03:32 PM (#4163691)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Then of course there's Hutton's Arse. Best geology book ever written.

27 Jan 23 - 03:35 PM (#4163692)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Perhaps the great living genius is Ed Witten. He is up to 11 - 27 dimensions. Trying to grok 5 dimensions is where I am.
Do check out the Brian Grene interview, it is the most intimate interview I have heard him do.

30 Jan 23 - 09:19 AM (#4163947)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We can sense and feel the 4th dimension of time. It is a different kind of direction. Pointing at a clock isn't a time direction.
Other than looking at the math of wormholes or seeing spooky action at a distance I don't sense or feel a fifth dimension but my brain evolved from my ancestors who had no advantages from a fifth dimension sense.
I can conceive of a dimension that wraps around space in a way that makes every point in space adjacent to one another regardless of distance. The LHC is looking for another dimension by trying to find an energy loss when a particle goes into another dimension. So far no luck.

In an effort to prevent this thread like threads about Neuroscience and the Human Brain, from being closed by Steve Shaw by his use of nonsense and swearing, I wish to add that The Liars Culture most often masks their lies as entertainment. These tactics are counter to other values such as wisdom or simply being a decent human being. He will claim innocence and compound his lies which is fine since I believe in free speech, not NO SPEECH. The current war to not teach history and heinous lies for entertainment or power is important enough to call out in any form.
The Liars Culture is not my kind of TLC.

30 Jan 23 - 09:44 AM (#4163952)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I thought this thread was about keeping things simple?

30 Jan 23 - 10:39 AM (#4163955)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: FreddyHeadey

Donuel
Are you on some forums where people understand you straight away and maybe even agree with you and expand your points?
Could you post a sample link?

30 Jan 23 - 11:28 AM (#4163959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are hundreds of sites like Quora which is on the lay side. The academic sites require math skills.

30 Jan 23 - 12:55 PM (#4163965)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Best yet listen to the foremost cosmologists and astrophysicists on you tube in interviews or presentations. My leading favorites are Brian Greene, Roger Penrose and Witten. Lex Fridman interviews many of them on youtube. For free lessons on cosmology check out this guy PBS HE IS ENTERTAINING AND FASCINATING. He's older now and is held in esteem.

30 Jan 23 - 01:02 PM (#4163967)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In the UK this cosmologist has many fans check it out

30 Jan 23 - 10:30 PM (#4164014)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: FreddyHeadey

Donuel
Could you suggest some websites where we could read and hear from good cosmologists and astrophysicists please?

10 Feb 23 - 11:40 AM (#4164777)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

O'DOWD is a cosmologist who may be your age and appears on 'PBS Spacetime' and more or less teaches in a wonderful way while exploring fundamentals.

Starting with the noble prize winner Roger Penrose on youtube will get you to see many other related cosmologists but the more you know the more you might understand the top guys and gals.

I am more of an audience than a contributor. The universe is awesome and the more people who learn about it the more we can come together.
We all tend to play games by simple rules. Science can show us bigger landscapes and perhaps we can become less fractionalized people and become united even in new mysteries. At least I hope so.

Having an opinion based on evidence is your right and privilege. It shows you are thinking beyond being spoon fed.

I believe the more we learn about the universe the more we can understand what is within us since the universe made us.

10 Feb 23 - 12:24 PM (#4164778)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am at the point where the tiniest observation of 'is it a particle or a wave?' is also true of the entire universe as well - in a duality that we can not yet fully understand. The obvious answer is that it is two things at once. That only seems to be true in our human consciousness.
I am a panpsychist who believes our consciousness is simply information inspecting itself and being aware of itself. This is true of all information and has no cut off point. That means all things have a consciousness of varying complexity.

There are fundamentals and emergent complexities but they each have their charm, delight and consternation in my information stream consciousness.

10 Feb 23 - 01:04 PM (#4164788)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The more I learn the more I realise how little I know!

10 Feb 23 - 03:44 PM (#4164800)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

From wiki.

One criticism of panpsychism is that it cannot be empirically tested.A corollary of this criticism is that panpsychism has no predictive power. Tononi and Koch write: "Besides claiming that matter and mind are one thing, [panpsychism] has little constructive to say and offers no positive laws explaining how the mind is organized and works."

John Searle has alleged that panpsychism's unfalsifiability goes deeper than run-of-the-mill untestability: it is unfalsifiable because "It does not get up to the level of being false. It is strictly speaking meaningless because no clear notion has been given to the claim."

Which is what I think too.

10 Feb 23 - 05:18 PM (#4164805)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You will only think you know what is impossible based on the past.
Knowledge has a way of proving the chronic nay-sayer wrong over time.

I on the other hand must go with experiential evidence for now.
Things change although the universe has a few enduring fundamental features/forces.

I like your polite side for a change.

10 Feb 23 - 05:27 PM (#4164806)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Experiential evidence isn't evidence, except to you. It's a claim. Do note that your claim is unfalsifiable. That's a way of saying that it isn't good science.

10 Feb 23 - 10:33 PM (#4164819)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

50 years ago Prof. Hawking said by the year 2000 we should have a theory of everything in astrophysics. Carl Sagan wasn't sure if there was enough matter in the universe to slow the expansion of space and recollapse the universe. Well, since then we discovered dark matter and that space is expanding AND accelerating.
They were both wrong but they were right about other things.
The future holds surprises we do not expect.
At this time I am both wrong and right. IN TIME SO ARE YOU.
I'm willing to reason it out even when there is not currently a single person who can prove what consciousness is.
We do however experience it.

10 Feb 23 - 11:22 PM (#4164820)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I think it is admirable to learn of and explore many different world views. There is not just one way to view the universe.
An old fashioned accepted truth involved particles. However,
that concept is now positively not real.
Knowing is not the way you know it, but I know you will not understand.
Knowing about geometric unity is just as valid as field theories as well as a multiplex of perspectives.

11 Feb 23 - 01:48 AM (#4164826)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In the debunking community there is a tendency to stigmatize a subject of inquiry and the researchers and witnesses or even attempt to harm or destroy those individuals. For example despite hundreds of thousands of witnesses and indirect evidence, the people involved are singled out for derision. This is actually an impediment to science as well as being mean and arrogant to witnesses. The UAP Navy introduction is attempting to get away from that kind of stigma and punishment of the witnesses and those who try to have real inquiry into the subject. Likewise in politics there is a mean spirited push to insult and accuse people of things which requires private detectives and a defensive posture. Most good people who could serve honorably do not wish to be subjected to such treatment.

Instead of knee jerk debunking techniques that discourage research, an open mind will enhance discovery. We don't need new technology or live on Mars more than going beyond Einsteinian paradigms so that a new science might be able to see a path forward to faster than light travel. Brian Greene has found a way to apply faster than light messaging. Going beyond Einstien is a promising direction that is not fully supported and in fact is considered dangerous and foolish by the status quo debunkers.

The power to silence ideas with bullying or gas lighting people of inquiry is attempted shaming. I do not want people scared or ridiculed and as a result withhold experience or data.
You should reserve your debunking efforts to Aunt Tilda's belief in ghosts, not ghosts in the machine. There is bunk or bunko artists. That you can see the difference between those selling nonsense for money and those who merely theorize. There is no room for ridicule and mocking as in the past. In the interest of science people should feel maximally safe recounting the unusual. IT IS IMPORTANT to know where the cutting edge of theoretical physics truly is. Getting there is not helped by ridicule and recrimination. Perhaps most important is to declassify what has been established.

11 Feb 23 - 02:04 AM (#4164828)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry is a programme on BBC Radio 4. All of the episodes appear to be available to listen to again.

A recent one might be of interest to some of you here.

The Case of the Blind Mind's Eye

Close your eyes and think of a giraffe. Can you see it? I mean, *really* see it - in rich, vivid detail? If not - you aren’t alone!

We’ve had scores of messages from listeners who report having a ‘blind mind’s eye’. They don’t see mental images at all and they want to know why. Jude from Perth wants to know what makes her brain different, and Diane from Scotland wonders whether it affectes her ability to remember family holidays.

Our sleuths learn that this is a condition recently termed ‘aphantasia’. They meet the chap who came up with the name, Professor Adam Zeman, a neurologist from the University of Exeter, and quiz him on the brain mechanisms behind this mystery.

Professor Julia Simner - a psychologist who, herself, doesn’t see mental images - shares the surprising research into how aphants differ slightly from others in a range of cognitive skills. We also hear about the world class artists and animators who can’t visualise - but can create beautiful, imaginary worlds.

++

Philosophy professor Fiona Macpherson from the University of Glasgow, deepens the mystery: perhaps this largely hidden phenomenon is behind some of the most profound disagreements in the history of psychology. Our mental experiences are all very different - maybe that’s why thinkers have come up with such different theories about how our minds work.

++


Search for the “VVIQ” or Vividness of Visual Imagery questionnaire to take the test yourself. Look for “The Perception Census” to take part in this massive online study of perceptual variation. And look up the 'Aphtantasia Network' if you're curious to find out more.

Presenters: Hannah Fry and Adam Rutherford
Contributors: Professor Adam Zeman, Professor Julia Simner, Professor Fiona Macpherson
Producer: Ilan Goodman

11 Feb 23 - 07:35 AM (#4164839)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Thanks for the detail. I only heard it in passing
btw NPR and MSNBC reported today that the Pentagon announced they shot down a small object 40,000 over Alaska shores. It was called a UFO since it was unidentified. I don't think small prop planes ever get that high.

My mental Giraffe looks pretty good in color and facial features including large eyes, hair, and odd horns. Its bodily features are more challenging to picture in detailed contrast to the face, neck, and mane.

11 Feb 23 - 08:14 AM (#4164841)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

While listening to the podcast I realize I am not a total synthete but I can call upon synthesesia like perception as In turning music into colors or turning smells into tastes. Geometry was always visual. Also, I have no angels or devils.
My dreams are not always in color but as a kid I watched a lot of black and white TV. Especially the Twilight zone. I was fortunate to have Rod Serling as a neighbor for a short time. I would walk his Irish Setters at Cayuga Lake

This whole concept of phantasic imagery could apply to research on Schizophrenia where the ability goes out of control.

11 Feb 23 - 09:06 AM (#4164847)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Over here a similar broadcast series is called Radio Lab on NPR.

13 Feb 23 - 05:50 AM (#4165036)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"In the debunking community there is a tendency to stigmatize a subject of inquiry and the researchers and witnesses or even attempt to harm or destroy those individuals. For example despite hundreds of thousands of witnesses and indirect evidence, the people involved are singled out for derision."

Well apart from the unwarranted hyperbole there, it's ironic that you debunk the debunkers far more assertively than the debunkers debunk you and your ilk. Good science shrugs its shoulders when presented with flights of imagination that are promoted without a shred of evidence. There's generally no attempt to harm or destroy unless there's a whiff of conspiracy theory afoot, so it's improper to cast yourself as some kind of victim. If you have an outside-of-the-box notion, it's up to you to kindle interest via the very simple step of presenting evidence that IS evidence. Witness is never evidence unless it's honestly corroborated, and I have no idea what "indirect evidence" is supposed to mean. You forget that good science is science that can be well-communicated. I dare say there are some good scientists who live in their own bubble of obscurantism, and they need help to get their ideas out. But there are bad scientists who like to wrap their shaky ideas up in deliberate and dodgy over-complexity and mysticism. If the cap fits, old chap...

13 Feb 23 - 08:19 AM (#4165046)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This week it has been reported that three UNIDENTIFIED objects have been shot down. That is the extent of it. This is a departure from the previous policy. With a lack of evidence. ignoring the known realities would be a foolish plan. The eyes-closed method, insistence on silence, or the shaming of witnesses is the absurd policy of the past.
Let's hope we/you learn to do better.

13 Feb 23 - 08:35 AM (#4165050)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

That's got nothing to do with what we're talking about (why am I surprised...), and, what's more, the balloons have their own thread.

13 Feb 23 - 08:38 AM (#4165051)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

(Donuel Rumsfeld)

13 Feb 23 - 08:45 AM (#4165055)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"This week it has been reported that three UNIDENTIFIED objects have been shot down."

At the moment they unidentified. They might well remain so as it will be hard to locate any remaining wreckage.

My money is on it being a Thunderbird.

13 Feb 23 - 09:14 AM (#4165059)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"Witness is never evidence unless it's honestly corroborated"

In the history of science witness tends to lead and science follows with a explanation (or not as the case might be).

Sometimes science can dismiss witness evidence as being nonsense. Just ask Ernst Chladni.

13 Feb 23 - 09:17 AM (#4165060)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are some knowns. One was cylindrical, one was octagonal and Canada has not disclosed the shape of one that was shot down over the Yukon. A fourth radar signature vanished from radar over Minnesota.

13 Feb 23 - 09:46 AM (#4165065)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You failed to take into account my HONESTLY-corroborated caveat. Piltdown Man was dishonestly corroborated. Lourdes and Fatima were "corroborated" by witnesses loaded down by confirmation bias, peer pressure or whatever else made them useless witnesses. There are no golden eagles in Cornwall or anywhere near, but suppose I claim that a golden eagle came to my bird table. Like Donuel, I could shout abuse at anyone who ridiculed me. Or I could present the real evidence, which would mean HONEST corroboration. A couple of proven unphotoshopped pics. Co-witnesses from the highest echelons of the RSPB. Related sightings close by. Sure, science needs lateral thinking, thinking outside the box, flights of imagination. It all helps to move science forward. But only evidence can put it on the right path. For over 99% of human existence, the sun went round the earth and the earth was flat. Newton indulged in alchemy. I've posted here several times about my sighting of ball lightning in Essex in the early 80s. I know what I saw and I know it was what I said it was. I couldn't find a single other witness. I don't require anyone else to believe me and I say that every time. The fact that I do say that has meant that I've never been called a bad scientist, been laughed at or been ridiculed for saying it. I think there's a lesson there.

13 Feb 23 - 09:50 AM (#4165067)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I do not use Steve's snarky rhetoric that is intended to injure people and possible POVs. Raindog presents alternatives and facts in a reasonable and respectful manner. That's what I have been talking about.

Like my friend Allen J Hynek, I began as a skeptic but as decades of indirect evidence mounted I changed my tune, My experience has led me to far different honest conclusions.

13 Feb 23 - 10:25 AM (#4165072)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I still do not have an explanation for the nebulous balls of light that passed through brick walls and out the interior wall. I only know for sure that others have had similar experiences. When I touched it I would have expected a shock if it was ball lightning. In the spirit of objectivity, I had jumped on a sofa and was not grounded.

13 Feb 23 - 10:41 AM (#4165074)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Here is another rhetorical trick Steve does to me;
" For over 99% of human existence, the sun went round the earth and the earth was flat."
quote: From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 09:46 AM

It is not a misquote, it is merely taken out of context.

13 Feb 23 - 10:41 AM (#4165075)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I have no intention of injuring anyone. What a daft thing to say.

13 Feb 23 - 10:43 AM (#4165076)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Rhetorical trick my fat bottom. It's just that you didn't get what I said!

13 Feb 23 - 10:47 AM (#4165077)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"I only know for sure that others have had similar experiences."

You only know for sure that others have reported to have had similar experiences. They might have been similar to yours but then again they might not.

Back when Chladni was gathering experiences, he did not live in an age when people were posting this, that and the other. The witness was less likely to be influenced by previous reports. If anyone sees anything unusual these days they might well search online for previous reports of something similar.

13 Feb 23 - 11:52 AM (#4165088)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes, I spotted that "know for sure" too. On such a basis is dodgy science often predicated...

13 Feb 23 - 12:44 PM (#4165095)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I concede that similar reports are very similar but do not explain the phenomenon. It is common for me to make predictions. I recently got my super bowl prediction wrong but I'm sure no one cares except Steve.
He thinks my predictions are prophesying and rails against them as vigorously as against a 19th-century medium contacting someone's dear deceased relative for money. No one cares about my posts, nor do people's reality revolve around my opinion.

I think Steve protests too much as if belief in any of my remarks is antithetical to scientific principles he guards like a self-appointed white knight. Nevermind the symptoms of the narcissist.

I believe the most favorite topic for him would be the "I believe in Steve" thread.

I also believe that his intention is degradation in my opinion.
Its a sadism thing.

13 Feb 23 - 03:56 PM (#4165117)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"I think Steve protests too much"

In light of your post, that strikes me as being not only ludicrously ironic but also highly amusing.

13 Feb 23 - 06:15 PM (#4165125)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

By way of a small diversion: the Super Bowl comment had me wondering which sport it was. Is it, I mused, that glorified rounders-for-chaps, or perhaps that version of netball for seven-footers? Why no, it's American "football," a game in which padded men beat each other up at regular intervals after someone has thrown the ball along lines of them, with scantily-dressed young beauties leaping up and down on the touchline with bunches of tinsel in their hands. As a chap who has just revelled in Liverpool's convincing (and much-needed) victory over Everton in the Merseyside derby, why would I have concerned myself with your Super Bowl prediction!

13 Feb 23 - 08:29 PM (#4165135)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Another reason that I support panpsychism is that it supports legal rights for intelligent animals.

13 Feb 23 - 08:44 PM (#4165137)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I support fairies in the bottom of the garden because they're prettier than goblins and leprechauns.

13 Feb 23 - 09:24 PM (#4165140)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

History supports the idea that some radical ideas become mainstream in 100 years. For example; should Women be allowed to vote?
Should animals be considered co-creators of life on Earth and have legal rights?
If corporations now have the legal rights of a person why not whales, dolphins, primates and others?
US laws ban cruelty but does not convey rights to animals. We know how Steve feels about dogs but we wouldn't want him involved in this question if we love dogs, or any conscious life for that matter.

14 Feb 23 - 04:47 AM (#4165164)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

See varmints thread. I love dogs but I strongly dislike a lot of their owners, which, round here, is most of them. They let them bark, they let them shit all over our streets and they let them charge around out of control. Nowt wrong with the actual individual dog. You misrepresent yourself here all the the time but kindly refrain from misrepresenting me.

14 Feb 23 - 05:12 AM (#4165166)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: The Sandman

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 13 Feb 23 - 08:44 PM

I support fairies in the bottom of the garden because they're prettier than goblins and leprechauns. quote S Shaw
I prefer Gnomes.

14 Feb 23 - 05:21 AM (#4165167)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Careful now, Dick! :-)

14 Feb 23 - 09:26 AM (#4165179)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Run for office with a 'no-shit' campaign.

14 Feb 23 - 12:04 PM (#4165197)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Well, as we keep saying, Steve. You have your Donuel and I have my Dick.

:D

14 Feb 23 - 12:23 PM (#4165200)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Run for office with a 'no-shit' campaign."

Hmm. Something you'd never manage...

15 Feb 23 - 08:33 AM (#4165240)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The issue of animal rights remains, despite the class clown trolls.

15 Feb 23 - 09:04 AM (#4165242)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your repetitive mentions of animal rights lack focus. We have fairly strict laws in this country about who can or can't do what to wild animals. There are rules regarding animal welfare standards in agriculture which some of us would like to see tightened and which, as with humans, are often breached. But we can't discuss it unless we know what you're talking about, and you did raise it out of context and out of the blue. Instead of calling people clowns for not responding to your apparent sudden bee-in-bonnet, why not tell us what you're on about and give us something to chew over?

15 Feb 23 - 09:45 AM (#4165246)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Simply animal rights law beyond anti-cruelty statutes.

I'm perfectly capable of discussing it myself. An intro;
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/happy-the-elephant-lessons-for-the-future-of-animal-rights-law.html



Cage free eggs and an end to veal cruelty is also catching on.

15 Feb 23 - 11:58 AM (#4165250)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

199 posts and I am still none the wiser. Someone else can have 200 :-)

15 Feb 23 - 12:31 PM (#4165252)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I will never go to a zoo. I understand that we may need to breed captive animals that are threatened, injured or on the brink of extinction, but animals on display for entertainment, not for me, thanks. Even my cat is free-range.

Cage eggs are becoming a thing of the past on the whole, though a third of our eggs still come from hens in "enriched cages," which are bigger (but still awful) than the pre-2012 battery cages, now banned. Barn eggs are common still, and from what I've seen around here "free-range" is a concept that needs a serious rethink. I know one place that has huge barns with pop-holes and I never see the hens in their outside enclosure. Their eggs are still sold as free-range. In farming, the concept of "what the eye doesn't see" is heavily guarded.

Tell us about your US chickens. We don't want them here...

15 Feb 23 - 01:39 PM (#4165256)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Clearly not breed injured animals. Just fix 'em!

16 Feb 23 - 08:26 AM (#4165301)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our chickens LIVE IN THE HOME OF THE BRAVE and have survived mass incarceration, fentanyl, Covid, mass shootings, insurrection, white national racism, and TRUMPISM. They wouldn't be caught dead in the UK which is a very silly island. We even protect them from UFOs and shoot down any galactic immigrants that dare incursion into the land of the American chicken. OUR BRAVE CHICKENS RULE.

Our chickens are not even afraid of a ten-foot sea rise from a glacial ice shelf that is about to break off of Antarctica and melt.
I recommend chicken life vests and galoshes for lying areas.

16 Feb 23 - 01:28 PM (#4165332)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

With apologies for crossing the threads ....

> I recommend chicken life vests and galoshes for lying areas.

Do you mean "low lying areas" or Mar-a-Lago :-) ?

16 Feb 23 - 08:52 PM (#4165357)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We have many low lieing areas. In DC we have Foggy Bottom.
Not to be confused with Mississippi's Soggy Bottom Boys.

16 Feb 23 - 09:00 PM (#4165358)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Soggy Bottom Boys

20 Feb 23 - 05:56 AM (#4165610)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.livescience.com/jwst-early-universe-discoveries



The Webb telescope is looking at the early universe.
It looks similar to now except for green peas.

22 Feb 23 - 08:56 AM (#4165839)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This morning while pondering dark energy accelerating the expansion of the universe I wondered if in the immense quantity of space, virtual particles that pop into existence could play a role if half of those particles are negative matter particles. Negative matter would repel matter.
Virtual particles are short-lived but at any given moment in the entire expansion of space, there would have to be an increasing amount that would exist.

All we have to do is detect negative matter virtual or otherwise :)

22 Feb 23 - 09:01 AM (#4165840)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12517084-200-the-power-of-negative-matter/

22 Feb 23 - 09:10 AM (#4165842)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

it seems others consider this postualtion

23 Feb 23 - 03:58 PM (#4165988)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our models for the early universe are wrong according to JWT.
The Universe lit up much earlier than we thought.

26 Feb 23 - 09:52 AM (#4166179)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

advice- Don't be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality.
If you can dream it - there is a better chance it can be done.

26 Feb 23 - 10:50 AM (#4166190)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So you can choose what to dream about? Hmm...

27 Feb 23 - 10:30 AM (#4166274)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Narcissism is not arrogance, it is the complete opposite of arrogance.
There is so much a feeling of incompetence and inadequacy in the self that the defensive structure around that becomes dominated by a rocket-fueled envy.

27 Feb 23 - 11:01 AM (#4166283)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have given myself permission to dream about a subject and have experienced that subject in my dreams. Emergent knowledge of the complex comes in many forms. Part of that process is realizing the many things we can not know. For people who can not think in mental imagery must rely on language alone which seems like more of an imitation of reality than the mental picture of the subject. Of course the language alone person would see this differently. I often can see a clear picture of a person's face long before I can recall the name of that person. This would not be the experience of the language only person.

27 Feb 23 - 11:25 AM (#4166290)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Ergo I can not differentiate names on a site like this easily.

27 Feb 23 - 12:07 PM (#4166298)
Subject: RE: BS: Evil, keep it simple
From: Donuel

Bill D often points out the evil people can do based upon specious logic.
Even Hitler or Putin have done evil based on what they saw as beneficial to their own constituents or themselves.
But there is the more common everyday evil by average people based upon ignorance. In this sense I suppose the concept of we are all sinners is true. Original sin however is nonsense.
I believe it is an unintentional evil when people actually do not know or know the wrong things. These people are capable of redemption.

27 Feb 23 - 12:24 PM (#4166299)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Do you ever wonder why you can do 13 posts in a row with just one little interruption? I doubt whether you'd want to hear my theory...

27 Feb 23 - 12:36 PM (#4166300)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Small bits makes for better digestion.

The evil of a Trump or Hitler is from envy and a wish to bring others down to their level.

27 Feb 23 - 12:42 PM (#4166303)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

When Hitler was told in childhood he was not good enough and later Jewish art instructors and collectors told him he was not good enough he had to blame others and eventually carried out his evil based on envy and revenge.

This is a recurring theme with Trump and I suspect mass shooters.

27 Feb 23 - 12:52 PM (#4166305)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Keep digging.

27 Feb 23 - 01:03 PM (#4166308)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

One can see a Napolean complex in Putin as well as a loss of empire in his lifetime. His background is solely counterintelligence and belittling his perceived enemy. He will never admit to envy.
So you may also begin to see evil as a response to envy and feelings of poor self-worth.

A healthy feeling of self worth is a potential for achievement in thoughts and deeds. The mere conscious mind fooling itself with delusions of grandeur is unhealthy. The unhealthy expression of envy has been seen in the personalities of serial killers to politicians.
The other route to evil is the psychopath devoid of empathy.

27 Feb 23 - 01:49 PM (#4166309)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We all have a choice to nuture envy and the malevolent wrongs that were done to us but it leads to more destruction. Nurturing the positive like gratitude or humility leads to growth. How many different ways have you heard the same thing?

Envy writ large is malignant narcissism. The overwhelming majority of social destruction is carried out by narcissists not psychopaths. Another misconception is that narcissists don't care about other people. If anything they care too much in comparison to themselves.

These are not black or white issues but contain plenty of grey areas.

27 Feb 23 - 02:09 PM (#4166314)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We are a rational species but emotions can trump logic and leave people swimming in a toxic soup of feelings and beliefs. One of the things I have seen the most is how people can be dragged down by their feelings in a feedback loop of destruction.

Breaking that cycle with a simple application of levity or good feelings was my job for more than a decade. It sounds simple but it is a cooperative experience and people are different.

27 Feb 23 - 05:50 PM (#4166328)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

One hears about the needs of mental health but it has become obscenely difficult. Then the help available is often formulaic and within the confines of insurance limitations. If the experience is real human interaction you are probably on the right track.

27 Feb 23 - 07:03 PM (#4166331)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Of course medicine can shorten the process of mental health healing.
As I have said before magic mushrooms often aid with flexibility in thinking. The 'what if' experience is an indication of a more open mind.

It treats alcoholism, OCD, PTSD and as I have seen, far more beyond the scope of mere disorders. It is not without side effects, I have seen some people vomit. A good intent is also beneficial. It has a candy coating of being an overall pleasant and joyous experience unlike ayahuasca or other visionary experiences that are more disorienting.

27 Feb 23 - 07:13 PM (#4166332)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The unexamined life is not worth living. - Socrates

27 Feb 23 - 08:34 PM (#4166337)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You seriously need to stop pushing magic mushrooms. Your incredibly slack and irresponsible approach to this is astounding. Consuming the actual fungi means that you have no idea of the quantity of active ingredient you're taking in: the fungi contain highly variable amounts of psilocybin, even within the same species, and consuming the mushrooms in uncontrolled and unmeasured quantities simply adds to the slapdash and risky nature of the approach. It would be unobjectionable to discuss clinical trials of purified extracts of the drug, but no, with you it's always the mushrooms you advocate. And that doesn't begin to address the legality or otherwise of the thing you're so keen to promote. Your observations of the effects are not derived from properly controlled, large-scale trials, which is the only correct and responsible way of researching such things. I wouldn't be so unscientific as to suggest that if you indulge as much as you advocate, it could explain quite a lot, so I won't.

27 Feb 23 - 09:31 PM (#4166341)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Helen

'Magic mushroom' trial in WA could be the key to treating depression

Virtual reality plus psychedelics are being trialled in therapy. Are they effective?

28 Feb 23 - 05:57 AM (#4166358)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Excellent. That's good, safe science, the very opposite of "Eat these! I've seen how much good they've done for some of my mates!"

28 Feb 23 - 06:17 AM (#4166359)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have never discussed dosage before however safe and effective amounts range from micro-dosing to heroic levels. I am in good company as an advocate,
All the studies you claim have not been done, have been done over the last 50 years.
It has been 30 years since my last encounter with magic mushrooms.
Perhaps you want to claim it is addictive.

28 Feb 23 - 06:23 AM (#4166360)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

No, I just want to say that the only responsible approach to taking this as a medicine is after the active ingredient has been purified and trialled extensively in controlled doses. I'm all for it. That is the very opposite of what you persistently advocate, in your anarchic hippies-sixties style.

28 Feb 23 - 06:27 AM (#4166361)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Novices could google 'How to Change Your Mind'.

28 Feb 23 - 09:04 AM (#4166374)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The fact is that you are advocating the use of a substance that in many administrations is illegal to possess and/or use.

28 Feb 23 - 09:19 AM (#4166377)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Nixon was not the Pope and got some things wrong on his schedule 1 drug list.

28 Feb 23 - 09:52 AM (#4166380)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Besides, if your Kingdom had not reformed laws you would have been executed for treason regarding any number of your posts. My ancestors were not cowards nor am I.

28 Feb 23 - 10:21 AM (#4166385)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I can't be the only one who noticed you are obsessive about control.
Its a good thing you are not in Big Pharma or the government.

Oregon has compromised and only allows legal ingestion of MM with the assistance of trained medical staff.

I prefer freedom.

28 Feb 23 - 11:05 AM (#4166389)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> I prefer freedom.

Freedom includes the freedom to get it wrong, for unbounded values of "it". Responsibility is exercising the freedom to carry the can afterwards.

28 Feb 23 - 11:27 AM (#4166390)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Responsibility means not promoting illegal substances on a public website. I can't keep it much simpler than that.

01 Mar 23 - 05:53 AM (#4166463)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Promoting mental health is far more responsible than whinging about it and doing nothing.

01 Mar 23 - 06:56 AM (#4166469)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

MaJoC the Filk, I agree. I believe infallibility does not exist,
not even on the fundamental Planck scale.

01 Mar 23 - 07:43 AM (#4166475)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Promoting illegal drugs is doing nothing for mental health and everything for mental ill-health. Promoting research into novel substances, derived from plants and purified so as to be available in properly measured and trialled doses which may eventually prove to be efficacious is the only way forward. You're rather lucky that you don't live in a country in which you'd be arrested for posting about magic mushrooms the way you do.

01 Mar 23 - 09:47 AM (#4166496)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

whinge whinge whinge and do nothing except condemn and extort.
You are speaking from the corner of ignorance and no experience.
Ya know, grand old dinosaurs like you are usually old cops and Fox watchers over here. You obey orders without knowing why and your eyes are soaked in prejudice. To think yourself a liberal is a delusion.

Grand Old Dinosaurs think they are GOD.
An asteroid proved them wrong.

01 Mar 23 - 09:56 AM (#4166499)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

:-)

06 Mar 23 - 09:51 AM (#4167023)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

':^/

06 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM (#4167034)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

Gabriel and Bathsheba or is it Bathsheba and Gabriel?

I think we should be told.

06 Mar 23 - 11:45 AM (#4167037)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Dunno, but as I've always really fancied Carey Mulligan can I be Gabriel??

(Go on - he can be Bathsheba - being a big girl's blouse he already halfway there, and Carey will have a bit of spare time...)

06 Mar 23 - 06:09 PM (#4167055)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Beware of hair stylists named Delilah,

07 Mar 23 - 03:31 PM (#4167139)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There has been a reversal of the theory of axions being the building blocks of dark matter and going back to the notion that primordial black holes being the stuff of dark matter. The other mystery of dark energy pushing the universe outward is also black hole related. I say black holes can transmute mass into space but the consensus is that black holes can have a repellant effect. I prefer my idea.

07 Mar 23 - 04:19 PM (#4167144)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well there's a surprise.

09 Mar 23 - 08:34 PM (#4167187)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I only know two people who have equations on their headstones. Newton and Maxwell. Today they are approximations set in stone. I wonder how big a headstone should be required to show Schwartchilds equations. Simplicity often seems to be at the heart of some things. Even a neutron is not infallible, it too will decay.
Now is the most wonderful time to be an astrophysicist. In 1920 it took a hundred years to sort out the new concept of general relativity; Today we have some faster shortcuts. In fact, new science is less focused on equations and more reliant on programs, algorithms, and geometry.
Current String Theory is a stepping stone that unites relativity and Quantum and gravity consistently. Eventually, we will be less wrong and more right as we go along.
The simplicity expressed everywhere in the universe seems to be symmetry and dualism. When intuition plays in this field of symmetry success is surprisingly correct or beautiful. It was Dirac who made equations that predicted anti-matter and negative energy.


Even visualizing extra dimensions gets easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgymNImxgaU

10 Mar 23 - 06:29 AM (#4167224)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> I wonder how big a headstone should be required to show Schwartchilds
> equations.

Depends whether the stonemason has a chisel that can do Flyspeck Three.

> Even a neutron is not infallible, it too will decay.

.... in about fifteen minutes when free, which is why they hide in nuclei. Protons are rather longer-lived (half-life at least 1.67×1034 years, quoth Wikipedia, but for some reason proton decay's not yet been observed).

10 Mar 23 - 08:15 PM (#4167307)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

About 15 years ago I started carrying on about black holes and that they seem to transmute mass into space, well...

WOO HOO! It is becoming an accepted paradigm that I now hear reported on NPR and my other haunts.

I never claimed to know the mechanism that delivers more space into space from inside a black hole which would account for dark energy and the acceleration of the expansion of the universe - BUT - I HAVE GOTTEN IT HALF RIGHT.

This process is not as secure as general relativity but it is finally on the lips of those in the know.15 years ago I could only find one guy in NZ who had similar insight - now its everywhere you look..
https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/02/19/are-black-holes-the-source-of-dark-energy/#:~:text=Black%20holes%20are%20the%20source,e

I am glad I persevered in this long time conundrum.

Well there is still the mystery of dark matter. Before you say 'even a blind squirrel can find a nut', Remember If I can hit a target with spacial thought so can nearly everyone.

10 Mar 23 - 08:22 PM (#4167308)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I first noticed a relationship between the acceleration rate and black hole increase in the universe and went from there. Kinda obvious now.

10 Mar 23 - 08:27 PM (#4167310)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243114/scientists-find-first-evidence-that-black/

10 Mar 23 - 10:09 PM (#4167317)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I just finished hearing Science Friday on NPR about the 'new' black hole dark matter connection. To be fair they missed 2 essential points. One being that the recent Nobel Prize winner Roger Penrose has demonstrated how Black holes go beyond turning mass into energy and can actually transmute mass-energy into space energy. Second, They missed the correlation between an increase in black holes and an increase in the acceleration of more space.

12 Mar 23 - 03:11 PM (#4167410)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

My black hole theory that now is about to revolutionize all of cosmology was so unintuitive that there was not a single person here who openly accepted its validity. Actually, Amos was the only person who did make a constructive comment regarding my cosmic pursuit. Only because of a recent observation of new SMBH growth has this confirmation happened in my lifetime. This hole in one is my one trick pony cosmically speaking.

12 Mar 23 - 04:21 PM (#4167413)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You've got an ego bigger than my arse, that's for sure.

13 Mar 23 - 06:52 AM (#4167447)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What is large is the time I devoted to this example of problem solving by other means. What is unique is how I posted every step along the way over 15 years or more by setting thoughts free to roam into an entirely unknown realm. I'm surprised your harumph did't take the form of ("anything interesting is certainly wrong".
Different people celebrate different things,

13 Mar 23 - 10:43 AM (#4167463)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

My black hole theory that now is about to revolutionize all of cosmology was so unintuitive that there was not a single person here who openly accepted its validity.

This is a music site, primarily aimed at traditional folk and blues. Most people here would have, at best, only a passing interest in cosmology, if they have interest at all in the subject.

Can I ask you, Donuel, have any of your musings appeared in a reputable scientific publication where they have been subject to peer review and scrutiny by people who know what they are talking out?

DC

13 Mar 23 - 06:13 PM (#4167487)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

.....talking about?

DC

13 Mar 23 - 09:00 PM (#4167498)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You can ask. Fame, money and being reknown are the farthest things from my desires. I tasted it but it was not to my liking. While independent, who is really alone in the age of the internet. Mostly I am delighted by surprise. In the language of Math, I am practically illiterate.

If you asked, not dealing with the pitfalls and challenges in a career environment is an advantage to freedom of thought.

14 Mar 23 - 04:45 AM (#4167517)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

I am fully expecting that one day you will tell us how you were looking up at the sky, wondering if a cow really could jump over the moon. You will then go on to claim that it was your theory that gave rise to the NASA programme which took Armstrong and Aldrin up there.

DC

14 Mar 23 - 05:17 AM (#4167519)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"If you asked, not dealing with the pitfalls and challenges in a career environment is an advantage to freedom of thought"

Indeed it is. Just ask Gary Lineker.
But then the disadvantage is that not many people will get to hear about those thoughts, apart from those few who read some posts on mudcat.

Is this the way to Amarillo?

14 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM (#4167527)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm fine with that since the guy who makes the measurement is deserving of the discovery. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6YK03f_GRFA

As I predicted there are also far more black holes than was thought, there are 10,000 in the milky way alone.

14 Mar 23 - 12:32 PM (#4167532)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A successful thought experiment is not a discovery. It is a clarifying opening chapter.

I have the puzzle of dark matter left which includes 'it not existing. to existing in negative mass' in unknown forms. Primordial Black Holes are another possibility unproven.

Symmetry will still be a property found in retrospect to the eventual answer.

14 Mar 23 - 04:09 PM (#4167549)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Hathor jumping over the moon sounds like a legend Pharoh Hachepsup started or a practical joke by Tesla.

14 Mar 23 - 06:34 PM (#4167565)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> .... if a cow really could jump over the moon ....

In a way, stories do lead to science. Humans told themselves and each other, and more importantly their children, stories about people walking on the Moon; if they hadn't, Mankind wouldn't have wanted to go there.

.... Apologies, but I can't find the relevant page numbers in The Science Of Discworld* for the above argument (or even whether it's Science Of Discworld II). Anyhoo, the relevant quote is: "We are pan narrans, the story-telling ape." We're being pulled into the future by our imaginations; the fun part is finding which part of the fantasy is actually practicable and useful. Tread carefully, show your workings, and make sure it's repeatable by others. Oh, and expect surprises.

* Stop laughing at the back there: Roundworld is us, and the science is real.

14 Mar 23 - 07:03 PM (#4167569)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Read Richard Dawkins' book The Magic of Reality. It's aimed at teenagers and young adults and it's expressed in a polar opposite way to Donuel's method, that is, it's clear, it's focused and everything is simply and straightforwardly given to us. Here's Dawkins' own introduction:

Magic is a slippery word: it is commonly used in three different ways, and the first thing I must do is distinguish between them. I'll call the first one 'supernatural magic', the second one 'stage magic' and the third one (which is my favourite meaning, and the one I intend in my title) 'poetic magic'. What I hope to show you in this book is that reality – the facts of the real world as understood through the methods of science – is magical in this third sense, the poetic sense, the good to be alive sense. In the rest of this book I want to show you that the real world, as understood scientifically, has magic of its own – the kind I call poetic magic: an inspiring beauty which is all the more magical because it is real and because we can understand how it works. Next to the true beauty and magic of the real world, supernatural spells and stage tricks seem cheap and tawdry by comparison. The magic of reality is neither supernatural nor a trick, but – quite simply – wonderful. Wonderful, and real. Wonderful because real.

Another contrast: Dawkins is believable. And a "scientist" who doesn't know how to communicate, and who is more interested in his own self-aggrandisement which he thinks he can achieve via obfuscation and twistery-mystery, is no scientist at all.

15 Mar 23 - 09:03 AM (#4167612)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://qz.com/766831/star-trek-real-life-technology

16 Mar 23 - 08:20 PM (#4167769)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have empathy for those who lash out at me. Whatever pain they have encountered and act out we probably have all faced at one time or another. I have no need to knock down the numerous strawmen created for me like the uncivil strawman or the special strawman or the stupid idiot strawman. I suppose I am uncivil to Nazis, but they are Nazis, still Mel Gibson is a good actor and director.

I didn't grow up in the seventies when kids got participation awards and were taught they were all special and entitled. In the 50's we were all little shits who had to obey the brass. Rebellion came later. If I go back 20, 40, or 60 years my world view would make me laugh today but change is hard and usually painful. There is only one certainty and that certainty is death. I highly recommend that you pick the problems that you enjoy because it can all be over in a second or worse yet in weeks of suffering. :-\

16 Mar 23 - 09:06 PM (#4167773)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You see, nobody is "lashing out" at you. That's your perception, and that feeds into your need to be a professional victim. Dave, John and I have our differences, e.g., John is completely wrong about him and his dogs ;-) ;-) ;-) but we get on and very quickly get over any spats that we have (I love you, John, but never bring your curs to Bude, right?), and I can never forgive Dave about those bingo balls, but hey ho. What the average person here wants to see is you ditching the bullshit about what you see as the "vision" you have that we lack (not...) and for you to express yourself clearly and humbly and to stay within what is clearly your very limited knowledge zone. Any of the rest of us who step beyond that and get slapped down (summat that Nigel, bless 'im, is rather good at, as he did with me this very week) will quickly eat humble pie. But not you. You pretend that your bullshit was just humour after all, or, worse, that you're something of a persecuted visionary (gotta be those mushrooms...), or that you're a victim, a sort of prophet without honour on this website. Well you're no different from anyone else here, except that you have this weird mission to get us to swallow your obscurantist piffle. It's a shame really, but there you go.

17 Mar 23 - 03:03 AM (#4167779)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

”I love you, John, but never bring your curs to Bude, right?”

Too late, Steve, way too late. And I left no evidence that we were there… ;-)

17 Mar 23 - 05:38 AM (#4167783)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
things you thought are something else.

17 Mar 23 - 04:11 PM (#4167830)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Translator's note, please...

18 Mar 23 - 12:57 PM (#4167892)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
many things upon your shelf
Turn out to be something else,

18 Mar 23 - 01:36 PM (#4167894)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Gibberish.

18 Mar 23 - 06:35 PM (#4167913)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

An Amish farmer is walking through his field when he sees a guy drinking from his pond, scooping it up with his hand.

The farmer says, "Trinken sie nicht das wasser, die kuhe unddie schweine haben in ihm geschissen," ('Don't drink the water, the cows and the pigs shit in it'). The guy shouts back, "This is America! I don't understand your gibberish! Speak English, you moron!"

The farmer replies, "Use two hands, you'll get more."

18 Mar 23 - 07:21 PM (#4167915)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yeah, right.

19 Mar 23 - 08:59 AM (#4167934)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

At the start of a successful business, there are many people who believe the venture is absolutely crazy, just like my Black Hole Theory. I remember when a number of people wanted to know in the most simple language possible what I was talking about. When I finally said out loud how Black Holes actually create more space from mass the sudden silence was deafening. It is now just as unbelievable as it was years ago but is finally catching on like wildfire,
Now that I have demonstrated the validity of this crazy idea it is not rational to deny it. That Steve wants to belittle the concept after a verifying measurement is practically pathological but has progressed from a child to poo beneath a shoe. To get a glimpse of the mystery of dark energy is a good example, as I have said, anyone can do what they set their mind to do when you love the exploration.

19 Mar 23 - 10:20 AM (#4167939)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Dunno about belittling your "concept." You sure could do with belittling your ego.

19 Mar 23 - 10:40 AM (#4167943)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

"Now that I have demonstrated the validity of this crazy idea it is not rational to deny it." When and where have you done so? I'd like to read about it.

19 Mar 23 - 11:22 AM (#4167946)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It's all here on mudcat in my narrative posts. I don't spam and show my creations visually since it was deemed spam like my Dolphin-headed cellos and devil-headed Steiner or rattlesnake violins when I linked them here 22 years ago. Original Cartoons were not denigrated as much as rhetoric so I went in that direction for a while.
When it comes to cosmology I never posted graphs or geometric relationships. Freedom of thought has changed my mind back and forth regarding a multiverse but at the end of the day the black hole surprise remained intact.

The earliest exploration involved six-dimensional models that were later abandoned. I even depicted a Klien bottle-shaped universe for fun. I now see a flat aspect to the universe, not to be confused with flat Earth. ;^/

I am just as surprised at the BH result as I was in Learning the Saint Saen's cello concerto over the summer practicing for hours in the milk house next to the barn on the farm.

I am slow. I am reminded of Vemeer who could only paint 2 pictures a year when he hurried.

19 Mar 23 - 11:44 AM (#4167948)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Links out to projects are ok - many of us have Flickr or Photobucket or other sites to park photos. Or save them in Google or Microsoft folders to share.

19 Mar 23 - 11:53 AM (#4167951)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

You should put all your observations in one place for the benefit of the scientific community and all mankind.

19 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM (#4167953)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Anyone else apart from Vermeer you'd like to align yourself with? Darwin? Einstein? Leonardo? Erik The Red?

19 Mar 23 - 01:03 PM (#4167958)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Its been about a billion years since Venus had significant water, then the planet turned itself inside out on the surface by volcanic activity.
Now its drier than the driest dessert on Earth. The surface pressure is about the same as 2 miles beneath our oceans but boy is it hot from trapping solar heat. It is estimated the rate of volcanic activity on Venus now is nearly the same as Earth today.

Will Venus ever have its atmosphere distill out its sulfuric acid?
Probably not. Even a collision with a giant water comet will not help due to the heat.

I am not interested in leaving footprints in the sand. Nor do I desire leaving a rare fossilized footprint. Blogging exercises help thinking like talking to oneself. Its just not that important although I do wish the great library of Alexandria had not burned. Half of that stuff was probably nonsense that we see today on the web.

19 Mar 23 - 01:14 PM (#4167959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Inner space, outer space, and the immediate space around us are co-equal partners in 'time'.

19 Mar 23 - 03:39 PM (#4167974)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

You don't care to leave "footprints in the sand", Don, but you don't mind rattling on about your marvelous discovery without providing proof that you ever came up with anything. Sounds like so much B.S. to me.
This IS a BS thread . . . ---mudelf

19 Mar 23 - 03:49 PM (#4167975)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In time this too could be wrong but you won't hurt anything or undo what happened no matter what you believe. btw a milk house is where the milk is stored in an underground vessel, not where the cows were milked.
eeii eeii oh.

20 Mar 23 - 09:43 AM (#4168035)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Theory that has been validated and has shown good predictive and explanatory power, one can try and extrapolate to everywhere. After all, often in science, the most we can do is to draw our best inferences about unknown instances based on a theory that works well in many known instances. And that is much better than making arbitrary claims or drawing no inference whatsoever.

20 Mar 23 - 12:07 PM (#4168049)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

"This IS a BS thread . . . ---mudelf"

So in this section the truth be damned and any kind bizarre fantasy goes, I guess.

20 Mar 23 - 12:16 PM (#4168051)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

any kind OF...

20 Mar 23 - 07:24 PM (#4168089)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Your vengeful extreme right wing is showing.
Sure you hope to be vindictive but I know better.

20 Mar 23 - 07:30 PM (#4168090)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Your vengeful extreme right wing is showing."

I think you need to explain this. I haven't picked up the slightest trace of that in gillymor's remarks.

Any slur will do, eh?

20 Mar 23 - 08:47 PM (#4168105)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

the inner planets

don't mess with Texas

21 Mar 23 - 05:22 AM (#4168122)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We all find meaning in different things. Steve enjoys the good clean filth of simple jokes and a variety of food. I enjoy the brain and Black holes.

21 Mar 23 - 05:55 AM (#4168125)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

That makes sense because I've long suspected that your brain is a black hole.
Sorry, Don, I couldn't resist that one.

21 Mar 23 - 06:22 AM (#4168128)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't know what kind of joke I enjoy because, as you've demonstrated, countless times, you don't know what a joke is. And stop saying vile things about people which you then try to laugh off with a stupid piece of whimsy. That is so transparent.

21 Mar 23 - 07:23 AM (#4168135)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

299 and I'm still non the wiser...

21 Mar 23 - 07:28 AM (#4168136)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Non The Wiser sounds like a medieval king or warlord. Think Ethelred The Unready or Hagar The Horrible...

21 Mar 23 - 08:47 AM (#4168141)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Filk, regarding stories and science ideas, in the amazing spiderman the super powers were attributed to m-RNA. Decades later m-rna came to the rescue during the pandemic, Jules Verne also had a good track record.

21 Mar 23 - 03:31 PM (#4168191)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I remember Ethel the Undressed. Mate of Lilo Lil.

21 Mar 23 - 03:35 PM (#4168192)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Filk,

MaJoC, *please* .... I thought for a moment that you were considering my favourite form of (de)composed folksong.

> regarding stories and science ideas [ ... ] Jules Verne also had a
> good track record

There's a skipload of near-miss predictions (anyone else remember James Blish's "spindizzies"?), and an all-but-unbounded load of outright tosh (most of pulp SF and fantasy); and that's only the lucky few who got published. We remember those who hit the jackpot; don't forget that the people who made money most reliably during gold rushes were the ones selling shovels and wheelbarrows, not their customers.

21 Mar 23 - 04:26 PM (#4168202)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I remember Ethelrude the Unready.

One hypothesis right out of a hundred ain't bad.
Meatloaf

22 Mar 23 - 06:29 PM (#4168260)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Even Einstien got loads of stuff wrong including a paper on why Black Holes don't exist.

I have a decent record on getting big things right looking back over 22 years.
1. Bio war pandemic
2. Iraq war outcome.
3. Black Holes are responsible for the acceleration of space.
There is more but it includes grim stuff like climate and more hopeful breakthroughs in health science.

22 Mar 23 - 06:51 PM (#4168264)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

All those accomplishments and still just as modest as the day is long. I'm surprised Mr. Nobel hasn't come knocking at you door.

22 Mar 23 - 06:56 PM (#4168266)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

More like the guy who gives out the Booker literary prize for fiction, I should think, gillymor.

24 Mar 23 - 03:49 PM (#4168290)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Even Steve was accidentally right about one thing lately. I saw in 2007 Beethoven was a victim of lead poisoning after testing but Steve said no. Only this week was a second test done and liver disease and too much drinking was forensically diagnosed.

24 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM (#4168291)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

To prove me wrong one need only look at my posting history. In this thread alone I revealed how I made a correlation that others are now seeing clearly for the first time. Every theory needs to be refined and corrected be it, Newton or Einstein. I doubt I will have much to offer in that process.

As far as dark matter is concerned gravity seems to have a different power to visible matter but I don't know what it neans.

24 Mar 23 - 04:24 PM (#4168293)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Don, I don't know if you've done all the things you claim to have done and I don't care whether or not you have or haven't. It's your humble bragging and Trumpian hubris that I find annoying.

24 Mar 23 - 05:18 PM (#4168298)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can summarise the last 300+ posts quite simply. Which I believe is what the intention was in the first place.

I did not understand Donuel's posts on a number of topics. I cannot recall which one in particular I asked for simplification on but it no longer matters. I still do not understand him. Donuel did not simplify any of his posts for me. In fact, this thread has made things more complex than ever. It is not Donuel's failure. It is mine. I do not understand him. After 300+ posts on here I don't believe I ever will. Maybe I should have explained what I meant by simplification better.

By simplification I mean putting a complex concept in terms that anyone, including me, can understand. Let me give an example. From Bill Bryson, in this case, explaining how you build a universe

No matter how hard you try you will never be able to grasp just how tiny, how spacially unassuming, is a proton. It is just way too small.

A proton is an infinitessimal part of an atom, which in itself of course is an insubstantial thing. Protons are so small that a little dib of ink, like the dot on this 'i' can hold something in the region of 500,000,000,000 of them, or rather more than the number of seconds it takes to make half a million years. So protons are exceedingly microscopic, to say the very least.

Now imagine if you can (and of course you can't) shrinking one of those protons down to a billionth of its normal size into a space so small that it would make a proton look enormous. Now pack into that tiny, tiny space about an ounce of matter. Excellent. You are ready to start a universe.

Now, whether this is factually correct or not is irrelevent. The point is I understand it and if I can understand it, so can many others.

At that point, unless anyone wants me to address anything specific before I go, I shall duck out. I suggest others do the same to stop the whole thread becoming more of a mire.

24 Mar 23 - 06:00 PM (#4168302)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Compared to the Bohr atom model we changed our thinking of particles to energy packets with quantum features. I am capable of taking the most simple path to understanding and do not even speak the exquisite language of mathematics. I more or less take a geometric approach.

As an athiest I assume we get only one go around so I have reinvented myself 4 or 5 times once I begin to feel a same familiarity or need to escape chaos. My current energy level has been the longest and somewhat laziest period. I think this is common to most people and that a singular focus for a lifetime is the rare example.

24 Mar 23 - 06:36 PM (#4168312)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I'm tempted to do the good cop, bad cop bit, Dave, but I can't be arsed. It's Friday night and the Morrisons negroamaro is going down a treat (legal, unlike magic mushrooms), and we've raised a glass to our much-loved postman (George) who retired today. A man who loved us and his Peroni (we bought him a stash today, natch), with whom we go back many years. He'd do anything for us. Luckily, his younger brother is taking over his round. We'll soon mould him to our ways! The Bude head postmaster (Luke, who just happened to be in the same class as our son at secondary school...) drove George down to our house here in the sticks this afternoon so that we could raise a glass of cava in his honour. Selfies were achieved. Donuel's mission in life is to make things as unsimple as possible in order to impress (his stuff rarely bears close scrutiny, which I've routinely discovered whenever I could be arsed to investigate). Keep posting and keep it simple, even if it's only about your postie!

24 Mar 23 - 08:11 PM (#4168325)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am more bold and more direct than thou. For example when I was directly asked about the status of UFO I directly answered that they exist. In these last two years this has been affirmed and a few weasels changed their tune. I also directly said that presence has a niche in life for unknown reasons and means undetermined. My inferences and analysis may confuse some people but when it is a topic outside one's experience it is only natural to not understand.

Vivre la difference but not the condemnation.

24 Mar 23 - 08:18 PM (#4168327)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I simply explore questions that many people do not entertain.

24 Mar 23 - 09:18 PM (#4168336)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I know you'd like to think that you confuse us via your erudition. Unfortunately, you do little more than entertain us with your half-baked pseudoscience. There's a place for that, of course. Please don't stop.

24 Mar 23 - 10:38 PM (#4168341)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Civil Rights did not harm whites, Gay marriage did not harm hetero marriage and controversial exploration does not harm science, It has nothing to do with your good cop bad cop delusion. Exploration is not a crime unless you are a conquistador.

25 Mar 23 - 02:50 AM (#4168342)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

Donuel, just a tiny, tiny quibble from me: when you say that UFOs exist, of COURSE, they exist- you're simply saying that one has not identified that particular flying object.

if you meant anything else, you needed to specify.

I kind of assume that you are in a grandiose phase. Which I understand- the other night I dreamt that I saw Elon Musk giggling like crazy, feeding live worms to a chihuahua. If that doesn't show my grandiosity, I don't know what would.

25 Mar 23 - 04:34 AM (#4168350)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

Value your local postie while you still have one. They are an endangered species nowadays, thanks to the company that employs them.

25 Mar 23 - 05:40 AM (#4168354)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

..."controversial exploration does not harm science"

It didn't do Galileo much good. If you're trying to say that bad science is harmless then I'm not with you. Adherence to the scientific process by people of integrity is the only safe way forward.

25 Mar 23 - 08:01 AM (#4168368)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Impuning my integrity and preaching 'there is only one way' is the language of extremists. Discovery is a win win not a good guy bad guy confrontation. Galileo really" Lighten up. I know your pastime is closing threads with your threats or choice of words.
They say you can't talk sense to a drunk.

25 Mar 23 - 09:08 AM (#4168373)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Complicated by the cold war and misinformation, the Orwellian question of do you 'believe' in UFOs was the norm. Belief implied a religious faith. I never believed in UFO's, I just went with the evidence in hand.
Some said they did not exist and I said they did. Today we are beyond that issue.

25 Mar 23 - 09:13 AM (#4168375)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You slur, you lose. Have you heard that one before? As I type this it's lunchtime, six hours before I'd even think of digging out the corkscrew, old chap.

Bad science is predicated on partial, dishonest or uncorroborated evidence. For thousands of years the sun went round the earth, eclipses were caused by monsters biting a chunk out of the sun, and Isaac Newton, in his time, practised alchemy. The good-evidence test failed all who adhered to these notions. No-one, on the other hand, has said that it's wrong to chase up a new hypothesis or quietly connect your findings to come up with a new notion. On that foundation is good science built. Another foundation stone of good science is the ability to communicate ideas simply and clearly to others. So far, you've told us what YOU think about black holes and the state of the universe, etc. What you have not told is where your evidence is. Forgive us for concluding that you've scarcely penetrated beyond the bounds of a fertile imagination at best and fantasy at worst. And don't get me started on that communicating thang...

Off to Morrisons now. I need eggs and spuds to fill the black hole in my larder. I suppose you recommend that I take a breath test before getting in my car.

25 Mar 23 - 09:34 AM (#4168383)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I will go one step further than Arthur C Clark and say there is the technology that not merely seems like magic but there is the existence of a means so that there is no confinement or safe that would disallow entry. For the human species this would be anathema given our criminal proclivities.

25 Mar 23 - 09:45 AM (#4168387)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well that was clear as mud. It's Clarke, by the way.

25 Mar 23 - 10:00 AM (#4168389)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The radical turn about regarding SMBH action upon space itself is a big deal but has its problems that will need refinement. That being said arriving tangentially at this conclusion can be done with correlation (my method involved the comparable increase in BH formation and universal expansion over 14 billion years) or by mathematical measurement of BH themselves as done by the Univerity of Hawaii.

Denials are an easy lie Steve employs constantly without evidence and are a troll's second most popular behavior. Ad Hominum attacks are #1.

25 Mar 23 - 10:20 AM (#4168393)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So saying that you can't talk sense to a drunk (meaning me, a never-drunk!) isn't an ad hominem? I think you need a better dictionary, fella!

It's a bit like asking people who proclaim God's existence for evidence. That's not denial - that's asking for evidence. Let my speech be yea yea, nay nay... :-)

25 Mar 23 - 10:22 AM (#4168394)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
the many things upon your shelf
Turn out to be something else,

25 Mar 23 - 10:25 AM (#4168395)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Also Sprach Donuel Rumsfeld... :-)

25 Mar 23 - 11:41 AM (#4168402)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Senator Harry Reid was a courageous investigator in UFOs although his demeanor was milk toast. Louise was a brave journalist who died of Covid and Allan Hynek died of the same kind of brain cancer as Bob Marley. I honor their contribution and are part of my motivation to carry on their discoveries. They were selfless and approachable. There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses.

We all have different motivations.

25 Mar 23 - 12:17 PM (#4168411)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Savvy folks will understand what makes the most successful CEOS.
They know in the game of musical chairs where the available seats are and can anticipate when the music is about to stop. Some might call that ability as being prescient, no matter how they do it, That small advantage of getting ahead of the problem is invaluable.

Some got it and some don't. You Steve definitely don't have it.

25 Mar 23 - 12:22 PM (#4168414)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I don't possess precognition, same as everyone else, but I can certainly predict when you're going to say something daft. I never quite know what it'll be, but there's much fun to be had in the anticipation.

25 Mar 23 - 01:25 PM (#4168418)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses."

Millions? Where have you plucked that figure from?

25 Mar 23 - 01:30 PM (#4168419)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Oh God, don't ask...

25 Mar 23 - 01:41 PM (#4168421)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years.

25 Mar 23 - 02:13 PM (#4168429)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

So you made the figure up.

"It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years."

Well this is not quite what it seems. UAPs have been seen for a large number of years. Of course what might be an UAP to one viewer, could well be the planet Venus to another and identified as such. UAP no longer.

25 Mar 23 - 03:29 PM (#4168439)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"UAP"? Don't you bloody start as well. I had to look that up. It's bad enough with him and his obfuscations!

25 Mar 23 - 03:58 PM (#4168441)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Old news and ignorance are boring.
Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed. It can proceed underwater without being slowed.
These are clues as to what forces it is avoiding or overcoming.I can list more clues if seeking understanding is the point.

25 Mar 23 - 04:19 PM (#4168443)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/

more obfuscation for Steve?

25 Mar 23 - 05:23 PM (#4168453)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your 03.58 post is unconnected and meaningless. As for your last post, I never click on unsupported links. I did that once with one of yours and bitterly regretted it.

25 Mar 23 - 05:41 PM (#4168454)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As one can see it is supported by the US government.

Other clues include no sonic boom, when very close one can feel a very low-frequency hum, the required power can be deduced by the rate of acceleration even if its mass is not precisely known.

25 Mar 23 - 07:44 PM (#4168464)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Supported by the US government, eh? Which government departments, pray tell? Does Joe Biden know about this?   :-)

26 Mar 23 - 12:55 AM (#4168474)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

Donuel: "Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed."

I often wonder whether any 'beings' inside these crafts may be programmed robots.

26 Mar 23 - 08:46 AM (#4168486)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/


The National Institutes of Health in cooperation with PCM (our foremost biomedical and scientific research lab) There is no better blue ribbon scientific research institute in the US.

I am not allowed to link to classified information from Bigalow Industries. Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson.

26 Mar 23 - 09:02 AM (#4168487)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The budget for the NIH is over 51 billion dollars.
I do not know Steve's budget.

Robots in the sky? There could be AI entities. But there also could be an inertia-free field generated around the physical craft, or even a time distortion factor we do not realize.

26 Mar 23 - 09:20 AM (#4168490)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson."

I must say, you have a bloody nerve accusing me of ad hominems when you come out with vile trash like this.

26 Mar 23 - 09:42 AM (#4168494)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Sometimes I respond to a lie but we call it giving better than we get. You only embarrass yourself with your harassment, bile and invectives. While having a useful idiot to compare and contrast my truthfulness is sometimes handy, your constant automaton behavior is getting old, and I daresay senile. You have no scientific contribution of your own which is not uncommon for a true scientist. The cliche' about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.

26 Mar 23 - 09:55 AM (#4168496)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The luminosity of UAPs is also a clue. It is obviously not LED or Halogen light. In some cases, it seems like ionized air and in other cases, it looks like intense laser radiation.

26 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM (#4168505)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have never seen an octagonal object at 20,000 ft.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/ufo-object-balloon-shot-down.html
I wonder what the other 2 looked like.

26 Mar 23 - 12:13 PM (#4168510)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

What an utter disgrace you are, you nasty little man. Only an idiot thinks he can get away with crude insults by quickly talking past them. Find yourself a hole to crawl into.

26 Mar 23 - 02:35 PM (#4168526)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion

Geez Louise, you fellas are still at it, hammer and tongs!

I think I'll return to whatever I was doing.

26 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM (#4168530)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You're not wrong, Charmion. I really should know better than to:respond to a brain-dead, bumptious, braggadocio-replete buffoon.

26 Mar 23 - 04:16 PM (#4168531)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I did try to tell you on the ‘US/Russia/China war’ thread Steve but, as ever, you were too ‘clever’ to listen to sage advice. It’s really simple, even for a ‘clever’ bloke like you - Just. Ignore. Him.

Or don’t, I really don’t give a FF.

26 Mar 23 - 04:30 PM (#4168532)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well yes, John (and please stop.doing.that.daft.full.stop.thing.between.words! You may be a lot of things but you're no Maggie!), but being aligned with the legendary troll (whose predations passed me by as it happens) is not nice. It's a bit like me calling your dogs a bunch of filthy parasitic arseholes...? ;-)

Cheers from Steve, the catman... XXX

26 Mar 23 - 05:23 PM (#4168536)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Staying on or near topic is now bad when I do it?
How about we both have a POV but never the twain shall meet?
It is not a competition so let our respect survive our differences.
It is for a short time in the grand scheme.

For example, I do respect your strengths. Let me have mine.

As seen from satellites the UAP max speed has been nearly Mach 60.
Relativistic speeds can be projected with more time.

26 Mar 23 - 06:36 PM (#4168540)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You're sidelined, Donuel. Sorry, mate, but you can't cut it with real-life, sane people. Go off and have a good think. And please stop thinking that you can get away with your horrible slurs and insults by quickly posting a nicey-nicey post or two. So transparent, old boy. Have an early night is my advice.

26 Mar 23 - 07:54 PM (#4168550)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

retreat to victimhood if you must. Trump makes a career of it.

My cello teacher convinced me that the Protestant work ethic is not meant for artists. While never a superstar and quite average I am satisfied with my different path. Doing what you love most of the time is rewarding.

26 Mar 23 - 08:18 PM (#4168552)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just go to bed. Eat (or inhale) mushrooms first if you like but I don't recommend it. :-)

26 Mar 23 - 08:23 PM (#4168554)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

An example of keeping it simple in pure research is in the advancement of prosthetics that have a true sense of touch. The group had no idea if the electronic interface with the brain that would unnaturally stimulate hundreds of thousands of neurons that were not even receptors for touch would work. IT DID. The brain went ahead and figured it out.

My idea for MS treatment is also simple. Just add cloned synovial fluid to the spinal fluid and let the body add the extra sheathing that was missing for nerves.

26 Mar 23 - 08:30 PM (#4168556)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I think we can all be glad that you're not involved in medical research. Now do go to bed. Have an early night, my dear fellow.

27 Mar 23 - 02:43 AM (#4168573)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Steve, I haven’t a clue what you’re going on about with your “being aligned with the legendary troll…is not nice”. Nobody mentioned ‘the legendary troll’ except you. And you’re often ‘not nice’ on this forum, including on this thread - pot/kettle/black, methinks.

You seem to be losing your grip on reality. Perhaps it’s an effect of your dual obsessions with Donuel and canine toilet-habits?

Now, you didn’t get it the first time, I’ll give it to you again - Just. Ignore. Him.

27 Mar 23 - 04:30 AM (#4168583)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:46 AM"

Hope this helps.

27 Mar 23 - 05:14 AM (#4168586)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Just. Ignore. Him.

I know you are trying to help, BWM, but there comes a time when it's best follow your own advice and ignore them both if they're squabbling like daft kids.

DC

27 Mar 23 - 05:31 AM (#4168591)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Daft kids," Doug? But out of the mouths of babes and sucklings...

(He ducks...)

27 Mar 23 - 06:00 AM (#4168593)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

"Daft kids," Doug?

"silly buggers" if you prefer!

DC

27 Mar 23 - 06:07 AM (#4168594)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

That'll do nicely. At least you don't do that daft-bugger full-stop thing!

27 Mar 23 - 07:46 AM (#4168603)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As I have alluded to before my family is involved in NIH medical research.

Now back to space, We have just had quite a solar storm and the aurora borealis came all the way down to Michigan.
Here is a picture of Iceland's Henge...https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2303/ArcticHenge_Letelier_1765.jpg

27 Mar 23 - 08:03 AM (#4168605)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

”I know you are trying to help, BWM, but there comes a time when it's best follow your own advice and ignore them both if they're squabbling like daft kids.”

You’re absolutely right, of course, Doug. There are people who are too ‘clever’ to be helped, and we have the perfect example here. Oh well, if they enjoy behaving like obsessive, needy fools, let ‘em have at it. I’ll stick with the grown-ups and Just. Ignore. Them. ;-)

27 Mar 23 - 08:16 AM (#4168608)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So how many posts is that now, John, in which you're "ignoring" me/us? Oh, the irony! :-)

27 Mar 23 - 09:04 AM (#4168611)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A person interested in new scientific insights can see through these attempts to suppress them. It used to be the church that wanted to stifle new ideas.

27 Mar 23 - 09:10 AM (#4168612)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Insights" being the non-operative word?

27 Mar 23 - 09:51 AM (#4168621)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A good track record including cures for M dystrophy and malsria.

https://www.nih.gov/sites/default/files/about-nih/discovery-into-health/nih-turning-discovery-into-health.pdf

27 Mar 23 - 05:40 PM (#4168683)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/newly-discovered-anatomy-shields-and-monitors-brain

27 Mar 23 - 06:14 PM (#4168688)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There is no cure for muscular dystrophy. Malaria is an acute condition which can be treated effectively but which may return. Talk of a "cure" is not appropriate.

27 Mar 23 - 09:17 PM (#4168699)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

These are reality.

27 Mar 23 - 09:27 PM (#4168701)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We know the people who cured malaria. I posted all this last year.

27 Mar 23 - 09:44 PM (#4168702)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The gene therapy trials are working The problem is that there are so many varients.

28 Mar 23 - 12:43 PM (#4168741)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There is no cure for muscular dystrophy.

28 Mar 23 - 01:50 PM (#4168745)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

From wiki: "There is no cure for any disorder from the muscular dystrophy group."

From the NHS website: "There's no cure for MD."

There is no reference to a cure for muscular dystrophy in either of the links you provided, which is hardly surprising. Your statement is without foundation.

28 Mar 23 - 04:27 PM (#4168755)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You know that real time insider information is not goggleable.

28 Mar 23 - 04:35 PM (#4168756)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

What you said was plain wrong. Of course, the very last thing you do is "plain." There is no cure for muscular dystrophy, right?

28 Mar 23 - 08:03 PM (#4168768)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

It's hard to argue with someone who's receiving "real time insider information" which is "not goggleable". Probably via confidential transmissions to his tin foil hat.

28 Mar 23 - 08:52 PM (#4168769)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Dunno about you, gillymor, but I've never had much success when I've tried to goggle anything...

30 Mar 23 - 06:03 PM (#4168800)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In conclusion to keeping it simple in the Universe, we see that symmetry is the repeating beauty. The Standard model is not accepted as the theory of everything by anyone. For one thing, it is the ugliest organization of asymmetric particles but it almost works. The theories that use the 4 known forces in the Universe have to add gravity by hand and the equations usually blow up or don't work smoothly because there is not enough room to unite them with gravity. There is a theory that needs gravity and automatically
allows gravity to naturally appear and that is String Theory. With extra dimensions, there is room to allow all the forces to unite along with gravity.

2,000 years ago Democritus theorized the Universe was made of atoms (that which can not be cut) but Pythagoras saw that strings of different lengths had different frequencies and saw the Universe in terms of music with beauty and harmony and of course symmetry. I see how they were both right in their way. Today we are on the brink
of a TOE a theory of everything. While everything in science is derived indirectly to be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

30 Mar 23 - 06:53 PM (#4168810)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There is no question that life is complex but the alphabet of DNA is as simple as the 4 GTCA. The four forces of the universe are the strong nuclear force that confounded Einstein, the weak nuclear force, the electromagnetic force that Maxwell showed was a symmetry between magnetism and electricity and finally Gravity as a pushing force (not a pulling force).

The biggest release of energy in the Universe happens when two Super Massive Black Holes merge from gravity. The waves produced are so huge that each wave is about 15 years apart and the energy released is more than all of the shining stars in the universe. We can see the wave coming when it warps and twists visible Pulsars that are between the explosion and Earth. The energy release is 5% of the energy in both SMBHs but is so huge that there is no way to make a comparison in a way the human mind can imagine.



PS re: the distractors, A Band-Aid for damaged genesfor
People with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, referred to as DMD, have various mutations in the body’s largest gene, dystrophin, which is a protein that cells need to stay intact. Dystrophin has 79 sections, or exons. If even one is missing, the body cannot produce dystrophin and the muscles degenerate.

There is no cure for DMD, but a new class of drugs called antisense oligonucleotides uses an approach called “exon skipping,” which acts like a Band-Aid over the missing exons so the body can skip over the damaged instructions and produce the protein needed to rebuild muscle tissue. Now a new gene therapy break through can correct for the specific missing gene. The explanation is possibly too complex to explain here so I will continue to liberally use the word cure despite the objector. When the results are published I'm sure he will not apologize or relent.

30 Mar 23 - 07:04 PM (#4168811)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

So then it has been cured in the future. That's simple enough.

30 Mar 23 - 07:14 PM (#4168814)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

DISCLAIMER: For security reasons, I have not revealed my source into the workings of the NIH, it is my better half who is an active member of the decision-making for NIH grants.

30 Mar 23 - 07:34 PM (#4168819)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In a repeat conclusion to keeping it simple in the Universe, we see that symmetry is the repeating beauty. The Standard model is not accepted as the theory of everything by anyone. For one thing, it is the ugliest organization of asymmetrically numbered particles but it almost works. The theories that use the 4 known forces in the Universe have to add gravity by hand and the equations usually blow up or don't work smoothly because there is not enough room to unite them with gravity In 3 dimensions. There is a theory that creates gravity automatically and allows gravity to naturally appear - and that is String Theory. With extra dimensions, there is room to allow all the forces to unite along with gravity.

2,000 years ago Democritus theorized the Universe was made of atoms (that which can not be cut) but Pythagoras saw that strings of different lengths had different frequencies and saw the Universe in terms of music with beauty and harmony and of course symmetry. I see how they were both right in their way. Today we are on the brink
of a TOE a theory of everything. While everything in science is derived indirectly to be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

30 Mar 23 - 07:38 PM (#4168820)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Not another word or your wife may have to off you for security's sake.

30 Mar 23 - 07:50 PM (#4168824)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

People do crazy things for 100 million dollars. I consider you partly crazy but not a contender.

30 Mar 23 - 07:55 PM (#4168825)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

C) He's crazy, (A7) He's manic de(Dm)pressive (A7)and (Dm) angry
He's (G7) crazy, paranoid, schizoid and (C) rude (C#dim ) and (Dm) violent (G7)
They (C) gave him(A7) some kind of new medi(Dm)cation (A7) (Dm)
And (G7) lately I think he's murderous (C) too. (F) (C) (C7)

(F) Bat shit crazy(C) (C7)
(C#7) And (D7) lately I wonder what he's going to do (G7) In (Dm) jail (G7)(spoken) sue?
Cause He's (C) crazy, psy(A7)chotic and lieing de(Dm)pendent, (A7) (Dm)

He's (F) angry ag(Em)gressive, com(Dm)pulsive, ob(A7)sessive
He's long haul (Dm) crazy from (G7) knowing (C) he's(G7) through

(F) Worried? You bet your ass I get (C) worried (B) (C)(B)(C)(C#)
Just (D7) wondering, wondering just what I should (G7) do (Dm) (G7)
'Cause He's (C) crazy, psy(A7)chotic and deeply de(Dm)pendant (A7) (Dm)
He's (F) laughin' and (Em) lyin', patho(Dm)logically (A7) fryin'
He so (Dm) crazy just like (G7) you know (C) who.

30 Mar 23 - 08:05 PM (#4168826)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well, the point is that there is no cure for muscular dystrophy.

30 Mar 23 - 08:19 PM (#4168827)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

No the POINT is the elegant beauty of the simple symmetry in the Universe.
Coincidentally my conclusion that black holes create expanding space is now a contending theory surprised me.

30 Mar 23 - 08:22 PM (#4168828)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The theory of everything is expected to be an elegant equation less than 2 inches long.

30 Mar 23 - 08:38 PM (#4168830)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Europe will build a bigger collider one day that should create dark matter.
The US spent a billion dollars to build a Large Hadron Collider and another billion dollars to fill in the hole. It put the US 2 generations behind Europe's discoveries.

30 Mar 23 - 08:48 PM (#4168831)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our science budget was cut but the Iraq war budget was increased.

31 Mar 23 - 05:08 AM (#4168839)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yet, in spite of all your incomprehensible verbiage (which, as is all too transparently obvious, is there to distract from the very simple fact that you made an untrue statement), there is still no cure for muscular dystrophy. The fact that you can so blithely make such a fundamental and avoidable error out of sheer carelessness, which you then can't admit to, calls into question the credibility of everything else you say. Over to you.

31 Mar 23 - 06:17 AM (#4168842)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

While everything in science is derived indirectly when we can't go there directly like the inside of the sun. To be true it must be testable, reproducible and falsifiable. For String Theory that test will be to perfectly derive the mass of a proton using string theory equations. That is how close we are and yet far away.

It turns out we do get something from nothing. The energy in the Universe equals zero when the positive energy of matter and radiation is equal to the negative energy of gravity, or when adding all the different galaxy spins turn out to be zero. Hawking used to say the dirt you remove from a hole equals the volume of the hole.

31 Mar 23 - 08:01 AM (#4168848)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So mix that dirt with water and you get mud. Clear as.

31 Mar 23 - 08:54 AM (#4168851)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Sorry, my disturbed fool needs attention...

Other reasonable people already recognize that certain cancers can be cured with medications and treatment modalities. Survival after 7 years is considered a cure but no one conflates that with all cancer cured.
MD is now in that category with a new gene therapy aided by CRISPR technology but it is a very specific treatment that can cure a specific geneticly caused form of MD..

My peculiar interest in black holes, cosmology and the multiverse many worlds theory has been confusing because they were my own thinking points, particularly in the beginning. I have often said anyone and everyone should hold a view of cosmology be it for religious or scientific curiosity or knowing where they live.

I was fortunate that my curiosity was sparked by witnessing an event42 years ago that defied our current scientific understanding. The best book to begin to understand is Flatland. You will be able to understand Michiu Kaku because he is as good if not a better communicator than Carl Sagan. His books began with Hyperspace and today The God Equation.

31 Mar 23 - 09:40 AM (#4168856)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The treatment you refer to is promising. But it is not a cure. We hope it will be, we want it to be, but it isn't yet. The sources that report on this report on it accurately. Perhaps you should take a lead from them. As for your cosmological meanderings, why not take a hint from your own thread title?

31 Mar 23 - 10:01 AM (#4168860)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Fortune favors the doers, don't give up learning.

31 Mar 23 - 11:17 AM (#4168875)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog

"I have often said anyone and everyone should hold a view of cosmology be it for religious or scientific curiosity or knowing where they live."

In a book* I was reading recently, I came across mention of Dr. Jack Van Impe. It seems that in 2001 he said that black holes fulfill all the technical requirements to be the location of Hell.

*The book was The Devil's Atlas by Edward Brooke-Hitching

31 Mar 23 - 03:54 PM (#4168895)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you think about the unstoppable collapse of a body to form a black hole, you might think that the body ends up with all its matter concentrated in a single point of space – the singularity. But again, this picture of the spacepoint-singularity residing in the center of the black hole is simply wrong. Using our analogy, you can see why. The singularity is the whole of the axis – and the axis represents a space direction. Hence, the singularity is not a point in space – it is infinitely extended!

This is exceedingly weird. From the outside, the region of a black hole looks like the surface of a sphere (in our model with two space dimensions and one time dimension, like the circumference of a circle). But inside that sphere, which has only a finite surface area, you can “hide” objects that are infinitely large – infinitely extended in space. How does this work? Again, it works because time and space trade places. Our simple scenario corresponds to an eternal black hole – a black hole that has always existed and will continue to exist indefinitely in the future. From the outside, the black hole is infinitely extended in time, but has only a finite size in space. Inside, the tables are turned: Time is only of finite extent (it starts at the horizon and ends abruptly at the singularity-axis), but instead one space direction, the axis direction, is now infinitely long.

If you have a hard time getting to grips with this mixture of time and space, rest assured that physicists have a hard time visualizing it, as well. Luckily, physicists have a language in which the properties of simple black holes can be formulated very precisely – the language of mathematics -, and using this formulation as a guide, it is possible to develop a pretty good intuition about spacetime containing a black hole.
This analogy isn’t perfect. In the analogy, the change-over of space and time happens suddenly, at the boundary. In a more precise formulation, the change-over is more gradual. In a way, the time direction is bent more and more inward as you get closer to the black hole. As the bending is strong enough to prevent any object from moving in any direction but inwards, you cross the horizon.

Also, the black hole is an especially simple specimen. It is spherically symmetric – a so-called Schwarzschild black hole, after Karl Schwarzschild who, in 1915, was the first to write down the equations defining and describing such a black hole; a special solution of Einstein’s equations of general relativity. (However, it took physicists more than forty years to understand the weird spacetime geometry that Schwarzschild’s equations imply!) As has already been mentioned, this type of black hole is eternal – it has always been there, and will always be there. More realistic black holes with a definite beginning (for example those produced by the collapse of a massive star) or eternal black holes which rotate all have a somewhat more complex inside structure.

Apart from these qualifications, the analogy holds, and it does capture an essential aspect of a real black hole’s spacetime geometry – time and space changing places at the horizon, and some fundamental consequences of that exchange.

Under such intense gravitational fields, no life could survive so experiencing time going in directions unknown to life will never be experienced.

31 Mar 23 - 04:38 PM (#4168897)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There were fewer of these eternal primordial black holes after the big bang but the number of new black holes increased over time at such an increasing rate that the effect on space gradually grew and is fairly pronounced today. Noticing the rate of black hole formation and the accompanying growth of space expansion is all that I found promising.
Looking back on this it was really not that hard.

31 Mar 23 - 04:48 PM (#4168898)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Seeing a geometric relationship is easy for me but what looks impossible to me is solving the Swarzfield equations that Einstein proposed.

01 Apr 23 - 05:38 AM (#4168933)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The 03.54 PM post is not the work of Donuel (which hardly needed Sherlock to figure out) but is a straight lift from the website Einstein Online. Hope this helps.

01 Apr 23 - 07:18 AM (#4168935)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What makes spinning stellar black holes different from a static Eienstien black hole are internal zones where centrifugal zones are so strong that they stall the gravitational force inward and create time zones that nearly stop and electrodynamic forces that shoot out the poles.

Since the human brain is made by our universe the quantum structure of nanotubes and the nothingness of the central vesicles may offer more clues to the quantum nature of time and the if anything can happen it will happen properties that would really piss off Steve regarding subjects like ESP and prescience.

01 Apr 23 - 07:25 AM (#4168936)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Speculate away, dear boy. If there's one thing in this universe that's utterly boundless it's your capacity for fantasy.

01 Apr 23 - 08:29 AM (#4168941)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Thank you, being forward looking is not always fantasy.
We have many different words for it. I think our future concept is what separates us from dogs who have only an inkling of the future but enough to be successful in the hunt. The words we use for this ability are many; able to see around corners, prophesize, predict, prescience, crystal gazing, etc. but fantasy is not among them. All in all we are fairly successful with it. Perhaps one in several billion people are remarkably good at it. I'm about one in 2,000.

01 Apr 23 - 08:47 AM (#4168943)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

You left out the one word that fits, deluded.

01 Apr 23 - 09:38 AM (#4168946)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

:-)

01 Apr 23 - 11:08 AM (#4168951)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Donuel,
I asked, up thread, if any of your musings had appeared in a reputable scientific publication and the answer was, basically, no.

As a follow-up question, have any other non-scientific common interest groups received the benefit of your insight in the way this music orientated site has?

DC

01 Apr 23 - 11:29 AM (#4168952)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am not a PhD physicist nor do I publish papers. Nor am I a self-promoter or a competitive advertiser of art or ideas except in this minnow pond of social media pond. Is that a bad thing? I think not. I am as amateur as they come. You may think that sounds like hubris but I think it sounds like humility to me. I suppose I am the nail that sticks out.

01 Apr 23 - 11:35 AM (#4168953)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well rot my flay-o...!

01 Apr 23 - 12:06 PM (#4168956)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Knowing yourself will always be more important than knowing others,
It is rare to feel proud of an achievement after 4 years or 40 years. Most of the time a feeling of satisfaction comes from a very short lived task.

01 Apr 23 - 12:25 PM (#4168957)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The better I know myself the better I can know others in a more limited way. I believe the marketplace is a poor measure of true excellence. Just being a professional who does something for money is not the best measure of abilities or being a good human being.

01 Apr 23 - 12:28 PM (#4168959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Nor am I a self-promoter ...

I beg to differ.

DC

01 Apr 23 - 12:45 PM (#4168963)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

... have any other non-scientific common interest groups received the benefit of your insight in the way this music orientated site has?

So, is it just Mudcat then?

DC

01 Apr 23 - 12:46 PM (#4168966)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The context included the word -except in this social media...
When encouragement is hard to come by sometimes we have to make some ourselves. I loved Muhammud Ali for much of his clever self-promotion.

01 Apr 23 - 01:22 PM (#4168967)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Muhammad Ali was a superb boxer, the greatest of all in my book, and a supreme athlete who didn't need "clever self-promotion" in order to be appreciated. He was the very best at what he did. "Clever self-promotion" is generally used by less talented individuals who need to thrust themselves into the public eye in order to get noticed and get by. I know of a player of a musical instrument (which I'd better not name...), for example, who purports to teach the instrument online and who writes lots of articles but who isn't actually that good. That sort of thing. Something to reflect on perhaps.

01 Apr 23 - 01:56 PM (#4168969)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Judging me is pretty far off-topic but it makes certain people feel good I suppose. Symmetry is the universal clue to answering many problems, relates to fractal chaos theory, and all around is fundamental to beauty in our mind's eye. Everything that works for me won't work for others who have not had weekly migraines, dyslexic properties and all the other dissimilar experiences in life. It's the old example of nature and nurture. As for Ali, the measure of his craft is equal to the ethics of being a good human being, something that is rare except for the most remarkable people.   Also sport is one of the obvious and few endeavors that are mostly meritorious and not a subjective judgment.

01 Apr 23 - 02:29 PM (#4168972)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Also sport is one of the obvious and few endeavors that are mostly meritorious and not a subjective judgment.

In Muhammad Ali's sport of boxing, unless it's by a knockout, the result is completely subject to the judgement of the officials.

DC

01 Apr 23 - 03:25 PM (#4168978)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

'mostly' was chosen for such exceptions, Iceskating and gymnastics is way too subjective imo

01 Apr 23 - 08:09 PM (#4168995)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There is a fine line between art and some sports.

03 Apr 23 - 07:42 AM (#4169122)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

THEY ALL LAUGHED
(George and Ira Gershwin)

The odds were a hundred to one against me
The world thought the heights were too high to climb
But people from Missouri never incensed me
Oh, I wasn't a bit concerned
For from history I had learned
How many, many times the worm had turned

They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
When he said the world was round
They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother
When they said that man could fly

They told Marconi
Wireless was a phony
It's the same old cry

They laughed at me wanting you
Said I was reaching for the moon
But oh, you came through
Now they'll have to change their tune,

They all said we never could be happy
They laughed at us— and how!
But ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh now

They all laughed at Rockefeller Center
Now they're fighting to get in
They all laughed at Whitney and his cotton gin
They all laughed at Fulton and his steamboat
Hershey and his chocolate bar

Ford and his Lizzie
Kept the laughers busy
That's how people are

They laughed at me wanting you
Said it would be Hello! Goodbye!
But oh, you came through
Now they're eating humble pie

They all said we'd never get together
Darling, let's take a bow
For ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh now

They laughed at me wanting you
Said, it would be, hello, goodbye
But oh, you came through
Now they're eating humble pie

They all said we'd never get together
Darling, let's take a bow
For ho, ho, ho
Who's got the last laugh

Hee, hee, hee
Let's at the past laugh
Ha, ha, ha
Who's got the last laugh now

03 Apr 23 - 09:11 AM (#4169131)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Columbus, Edison, the Wright brothers and Marconi got out there and did something about it, not spout on about it to a group of people who were really rather more interested in something else.

If enough buzz words and phrases are cobbled together then, by random chance, they may coincide with fact at sometime. It's a bit rich for someone then to go on and claim they had the original thought before anyone else.

DC

03 Apr 23 - 09:14 AM (#4169132)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"People used to laugh at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian. Well they're not laughing now."

(The late comedian Bob Monkhouse)

03 Apr 23 - 10:15 AM (#4169136)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Original thoughts often come in pairs.
Regarding Calculus, Newton was only one of its originators. Marconi had several simultaneous rivals, and Edison was ultimately outdone by Tesla today. In physics, there are numerous examples.

Gershwin picked several people who have become villains in today's society. I may be the only person to rhyme castles with assholes but it is surprisingly possible for you to say something original right now.

03 Apr 23 - 10:26 AM (#4169137)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Rhyming "castles with assholes".
Wow, is there a Grammy on you horizon.

03 Apr 23 - 10:45 AM (#4169139)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

I was going to mention that Marconi used more than one of Tesla's patents to 'invent' radio without letting on. I'm not sure if he ever payed him for the use thereof.

Darwin only published his Origin Of Species because someone else had the same idea and, apparently, there is an ancient relief carving of a light bulb in Egypt. Powered perhaps by the Baghdad batteries.

03 Apr 23 - 11:35 AM (#4169142)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

That
lightbulb looks more like the first vibrator

03 Apr 23 - 11:49 AM (#4169145)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Or an ad for an ED cure.

04 Apr 23 - 10:03 AM (#4169233)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A simple solution to school mass shootings is about to emerge.
It will bypass the second amendment. It will bypass the NRA and the gun lobby. It will undoubtedly make some politicians more strident.
IT IS THE BOYCOTT OF SCHOOLS BY STUDENTS who don't want to be legally shot by Republican legislation anymore.

I predict it will be slow at first but will take on a life of its own that will be bi-partisan if not pre-partisan. The ramifications and implications are enormous

04 Apr 23 - 10:18 AM (#4169235)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The paradigm will shift to the Constitutional rights of States to march its children to slaughter like cattle and the Constitutional rights of children.

The freedom to open carry machine guns will be a consequential issue and not the central issue.

04 Apr 23 - 10:39 AM (#4169236)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Teamwork makes the dream work.

07 Apr 23 - 09:47 AM (#4169440)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Some they do and some they don't and for others its just as well but for sexually active people it is a good idea to make abortion an integral part of dating sites and apps. The true majority of pro-choice folks need a wider base.

07 Apr 23 - 10:01 AM (#4169441)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Many people do not know that Ukraine was a leading nation in bio engineering and genetics. In fact, they had methods and applications of biomedicine not allowed in the US.

The advances in mRNA and CRISPR is about to help grow more food, cure more disease and create synthetic life. It is a brand new medical landscape today.

12 Apr 23 - 06:12 AM (#4169728)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Governors are speaking up about the megademic of assault weapon gun deaths. Its time to bring back the AR ban.

We used to have one.

16 Apr 23 - 02:46 PM (#4170061)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The market for caskets is dying. 60% of people choose cremation. One can even choose mulching today. Caskets are expensive and control 85% of the market by selling to funeral homes. There is an alternative called Titan Caskets that average 1000 bucks on Amazon. A cheaper more fun alternative casket came to mind. A variety could range from the Great Western pine box to the bass fiddle for under 500. Novelty caskets could include the dirt Buick, the daisy pusher, the sarcoughogus and sarcasmgus.

16 Apr 23 - 07:49 PM (#4170081)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

16 Apr 23 - 08:03 PM (#4170084)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"Don't be evil" is a Google meme. this goes nowhere far enough in the developing AI revolution IMO. I've tried to develop awareness about AI for about 7 years to no avail. Where it is now is amazing, It has saved over a billion hours of PHD time and solved all 200 million protein constructions in biology. In half a day it can go from beginner to entirely new never seen before chess strategies.
It can write 2 million stories in the time a human could write one.
Today it can suffer from hallucinations but it also can do things that defy human understanding. Then again we do not understand our own consciousness. Philosophers, engineers, physicians, artists and legal minds will be needed to define ethics for AI.

17 Apr 23 - 08:55 AM (#4170138)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There is a war between those who believe what is inevitable and those who believe what is possible. Erring on the side of what is possible is life. The inevitable is always death.
This is most apparent in climate change.

20 Apr 23 - 06:10 PM (#4170385)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A Rouge black hole the size of 20 million of our sun has been seen to create stars in its 200,000 light-year-long wake. Thats big.
Perhaps it was formed by multiple mergers.

21 Apr 23 - 12:04 AM (#4170393)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

A "RED black hole", Donuel? I'm trying to picture that. Do you mean "rogue"?

21 Apr 23 - 10:17 AM (#4170425)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It is both since it is red shifted by distant acceleration but I misspelled rogue/

Unknown spherical drones have been filmed by the US military in active war zones in Iraq. They have no propellers and look like polished metallic globes.

21 Apr 23 - 10:20 AM (#4170427)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Imagine the size of some black holes as extending from the sun to the orbit of Jupiter or Neptune.

23 Apr 23 - 10:06 AM (#4170616)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Oh dear, I believe I have invented the protein bomb. An enzyme turns the strong knots/bonds of the collagen protein bonds into slip knots. Instead of an explosive that tears bodies apart, a body falls apart silently without the binding protein of collagen. A cocktail of enzymes could theoretically liquify mammalian species. DARPA would pay millions for this workable EVIL technology. Quantum biology has impossible surprises. For example, the sense of smell was theorized to be a receptor lock and scent molecule key model but quantum biology shows that we can sense the vibration of molecular bonds.

23 Apr 23 - 10:22 AM (#4170622)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The thread title invites us to keep it simple. Now I wonder who came up with it...

23 Apr 23 - 02:55 PM (#4170656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I enjoy simple pleasures, ideas, and perseverance toward successful discoveries.

23 Apr 23 - 03:46 PM (#4170671)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your perseverance would pay off if you took heed of evidence as opposed to half-digested and unexamined "facts." Hope this helps.

24 Apr 23 - 07:05 PM (#4170756)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Help would pertain to mentioning discoveries, not writing nonsense about me. Questions ARE GOOD, like about what happens to your climate when the gulf stream slows down or stops when fresh water melt will flow rapidly from GREENLAND.

25 Apr 23 - 08:40 AM (#4170796)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

… Poor old grand-dad
I laughed at all his words
I thought he was a bitter man
He spoke of Donuel's ways
… He'll trap you, then he'll use you
And before you even know
For love isn't kind and you're far too blind
Don't ever let it show
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
But backstage back on earth again
The dressing rooms are gray
… Ideas come on strong and it ain't too long
For they make you feel abandoned
love isn't kind and you soon will find
You're just a boy again
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… When you see dark energy, you get a look
At the wonder where you are
If you want some more don't be fast asleep
We all twinkle with the stars
… Poor young grandson
There's nothing I can say
You'll have to learn, just like me
And that's the hardest way
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… I wish you knew what is happening now
Now that you're older
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
… Ooh la la
Ooh la la
Ooblahdi Ooblada...

25 Apr 23 - 06:07 PM (#4170841)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Here's a head scratcher from NIH: A study was done on the viral content of European baby poop. They found a host of previously undiscovered or unidentified viruses.

25 Apr 23 - 07:42 PM (#4170846)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The CDC reports a huge biological risk to Sudanese soldiers who captured a level 3 bio lab in Khartoum.

27 Apr 23 - 05:20 PM (#4170961)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

On the Matt Rinaldi Tv show in Rochester NY I was the first to say that Ronald Reagan was suffering from organic brain disease, a full two years before Nancy's famous letter about his Alzheimers. The rest of the panel was aghast and denied the possibility fervently.

27 Apr 23 - 05:56 PM (#4170963)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Wow. We have a long-distance doctor, a visionary, a super-astrophysicist and, I dare say, a soothsayer on our website, all rolled up in one bloke who doesn't even use mushrooms any more. It's wonderful and I feel I should be bowing my head in admiration.


Oh, hang on...

02 May 23 - 06:55 AM (#4171307)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Fire, the printing press, and nuclear weapons changed human society forever. Just as powerful a technology is computer general intelligence which is a short distance beyond artificial intelligence.
How do we control something more powerful than us forever?
Expect close calls and accidents.

02 May 23 - 07:14 AM (#4171310)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/01/can-ai-be-regulated

02 May 23 - 07:18 AM (#4171311)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

How do you sleep at night knowing that AI may be lurking in your closet.

02 May 23 - 08:34 AM (#4171316)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

When I was a student working on the parks in the early 70s, one of the gardeners was sounding off about how he didn't need our bloody degrees, etc., because he had common sense. He went on to tell us that he had letters after his name anyway.

Impressed, we asked him what they were.

"AI," said he.

"Wow, great! What do the letters stand for?"

"Artificial Inseminator."

03 May 23 - 01:11 PM (#4171417)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

See where you are in space

03 May 23 - 11:11 PM (#4171443)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

'We have a visionary, a super-(cosmologist) and'... You forgot a therapeutic hypnotist for 12 years.

04 May 23 - 04:07 AM (#4171450)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Ah, sorry. Anything else I've forgotten? Are you a shaman, a witch doctor and a medium? Do you do faith healing? How much do you charge?

04 May 23 - 04:56 AM (#4171454)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick


Wow. We have a long-distance doctor, a visionary, a super-astrophysicist and, I dare say, a soothsayer on our website ....

You forgot a therapeutic hypnotist for 12 years.

Ah, sorry. Anything else I've forgotten? Are you a shaman, a witch doctor and a medium? Do you do faith healing?


I can't remember which way round it was - it might have been both - but I seem to recall something on the lines of:

Supplier of services to/subject of investigation by the FBI/CIA.

DC

04 May 23 - 06:45 AM (#4171461)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Checking back on some old threads, it would appear to be an approach by the CIA, which was refused, and investigations by numerous intelligence agencies, including the FBI. Clearly a person of some significance.

DC

04 May 23 - 07:17 AM (#4171463)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And übermeister of the utterly hilarious joke, lest we forget...

04 May 23 - 07:36 AM (#4171465)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

His self-proclaimed status as a comic genius is hardly surprising given his claim to be of the same tribe as Bruce, Carlin and Pryor.

04 May 23 - 10:56 AM (#4171486)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

When interviewed I said that the CIA often believes that perception is reality and that is gobbledegook that invites blowback The Democrat and Chronicle led with..."The CIA is gobbledegook says hypnotist". I don't know how that resonated favorably or not, but that year began a recruitment campaign that lasted 6 months and employed 3 different kinds of persuasion. The last phase was intimidation and high-tech violence.

04 May 23 - 11:05 AM (#4171489)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The rest of the post will not display no matter where I have tried.
Not even as a PM.

04 May 23 - 11:17 AM (#4171490)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

The rest of the post will not display no matter where I have tried.

Perhaps you could post a long message in separate posts, one paragraph at a time, with an indication that it is linked to the previous or subsequent paragraph.

DC

04 May 23 - 01:19 PM (#4171503)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Soothsayer? Precognitionista? Prophet without honour in your own or any other country? Interpreter of tarot cards? Tea leaves? Feeler of bumps?

04 May 23 - 03:31 PM (#4171511)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Basically, the post said Doug was correct and then spoke about 2 FBI investigations as well as helping them regarding hijack prevention and local police assistance in the use of hypnosis with memory in testimony.

04 May 23 - 03:53 PM (#4171514)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The error message from the verbotten post was a 505 so I don't suspect something deliberate by an outsider.

04 May 23 - 06:15 PM (#4171525)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The particular kind of testimony I addressed was for rape victims, who were treated horribly or dismissed back in the day. A reluctant Sergeant was selected to be trained but there was a difficult cultural divide..

04 May 23 - 07:47 PM (#4171537)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

So Doug is basically correct. I do not know if my decision was correct but I was too wary to go along. As for the F** I was investigated regarding my remarks about Ronald Reagan and diminished capacity. Even our own Joe contacted the FBI over what I said about Justice C. I have also volunteered help to law enforcement regarding information gathering and the F** about limiting a hijack threat. There are better ways to do things and it is up to us to help make those changes. How we treat and don't treat the mentally ill is a case in point. Putting them in solitary confinement after imprisonment is one of the worst ways

04 May 23 - 08:06 PM (#4171539)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"How do you sleep at night knowing that AI may be lurking in your closet."

Just because you don't know that AI will affect 300 million jobs you shouldn't be snarky. The White House is having a crisis meeting with tech CEOs Friday.

04 May 23 - 09:15 PM (#4171541)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

I'm well aware of the threat of AI, Don but you were rattling on about it like Chicken Little.

05 May 23 - 06:57 AM (#4171555)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We disagree, I believe if you don't have something to hide don't hide it.

Besides didn't chicken little warn against an asteroid?
Asteroids are rare now but world-changing.

05 May 23 - 01:36 PM (#4171565)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You guys have never presented evidence of my making stuff up. When you are confused by sarcasm or speculation you make your own assumptions. I say your naive denial of facts presents the danger of ignorance or succumbing to your own propaganda. When your own lies become your facts it is a fact you are living a lie. Such is the nature of political education. At least I am glad that you are not all extreme vaccine deniers. "Where there is life there is hope" quote John Lennon.

Speculation is made clear and is separate from facts in my book. It is no fault of mine when you don't know the difference.

05 May 23 - 02:36 PM (#4171568)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Gosh, if only you DID make things clear. Au contraire, your modus operandi is deliberate obfuscation combined with half-truths and downright misinformation. If you can't see it in yourself you should listen to others here who are more measured than you are. Words such as baby and bathwater spring to mind.

05 May 23 - 02:37 PM (#4171569)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

You guys have never presented evidence of my making stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: The next big thing
From: Donuel - PM
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:38 AM

I was an inventor myself ................

My ideas led eventually to the Chohlear implant.


My reply at the time:

Subject: RE: BS: The next big thing
From: Doug Chadwick - PM
Date: 10 Sep 20 - 09:53 PM

The first cochlear implant was developed in 1957, when you were about 6 years old. Precocious little fellow, weren't you Donuel?

DC

05 May 23 - 02:43 PM (#4171571)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Well, maybe not exactly "at the time". I hadn't realised how old the original thread was.

DC

05 May 23 - 02:55 PM (#4171572)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

You made up that thd death rate of Covid was 34%.

Want me to give a link?

05 May 23 - 04:29 PM (#4171573)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

And weren't you recently called out for exaggerating the nature of a new Kentucky gun law.

05 May 23 - 06:51 PM (#4171584)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Through Kodak Labs tiger team engineering group my Cochlear device idea was an external approach without surgery. I lost track of its development when it was sold to Litton Inc. I did find out that synthesesia problems could not be overcome while an internal device provided many advantages. I don't know about 1957 but it must have been a clunky analog device. Great advances were done in the mid-seventies and again after the computer revolution.

05 May 23 - 07:11 PM (#4171588)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Synesthesia can be fun. Imagine a safe electronic weed or magic mushroom-like experience as easy as putting on a hat. With headphones listening to music you could see colors or taste or feel the music tactically. Even ideas that don't work for an intended subject can be applied elsewhere. Its how much of Pharma research works.

07 May 23 - 12:01 PM (#4171736)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Biden is a spring chicken compared to Kissinger.
Trump is a spring chicken compared to his rape victims.

08 May 23 - 09:55 AM (#4171832)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Life,motherhood, apple pie
Were agreed upon good things.
But death is what AR 15s bring.
and pregnant moms are left to die
Let us save the apple pie as distinct.
Unless bees by poison become extinct
and apple trees are not even pollinated
It seems red states want blue eliminated

08 May 23 - 10:04 AM (#4171833)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Walk About Verse confined remarks to one thread.
That seems fine to me even if it all goes unread

08 May 23 - 11:57 AM (#4171844)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Don't give up the day job.

10 May 23 - 07:43 AM (#4171922)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Is any mention of mass shootings now forbidden?
I do not understand the meaning of closing the US shootings thread.

10 May 23 - 08:27 AM (#4171926)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I think it was to do with the bringing up of 'woke wankers' Don. Try a new one.

10 May 23 - 10:57 AM (#4171933)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Woke has no singular definition and is too innocuous to be a reason.
Its all too woke to wank. Is it that now is not the time to discuss mass shootings?

10 May 23 - 11:47 AM (#4171936)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I’m sure you’re right, Dave - nothing to do with mass shootings in the US, more to do with the use of trigger words in the final post. I sympathise with Al and his wife’s unfortunate treatment, but it’s simply a fact of life that there are words which had one perfectly innocent meaning in past times, but which have another, unacceptable meaning nowadays. For us old-stagers, it’s sometimes a case of ‘tread carefully’… ;-)

10 May 23 - 03:01 PM (#4171958)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I forget that free speech does not apply here. Even your own remarks here belong to mudcat.org who owns the copyright.

So in jest, I suggest a softening of weapon and fascist language with new associations that should endear the public with new death styles. Authoritarian influencers will shill for new brand-name products and propaganda. Such as:

Hiroshimallows - cookies that explode in your mouth
Heinz AK 47 varieties - ketchup
Fruit and Nazis - Trail of Tears Mix
Buy Buy Rabies - bioweapons store
Fast track Anthrax - new and improved
Democracy Silencers - Assault Rifles twice as deadly as AR 15s
Guns R Us - kids' gunstore
Safe Way - Undetectable poison store
Cute Anon - cult
Re Pubicons - pussy grabbing republicans
- irrelevant alarm-
'Slacktivist Manifesto' by Eric Trump
Hitlarious - new word for anything funny

10 May 23 - 03:29 PM (#4171960)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Yaypalm - barbacue fire starter
Sea far - new plastic explosive
Grenadine - liquid explosive sweetener
Hobbesian snacks - chips for authoritarians
Armamint - candy

10 May 23 - 04:20 PM (#4171963)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

499...

10 May 23 - 05:23 PM (#4171968)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

500…

10 May 23 - 05:45 PM (#4171970)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Twitter is smelling rancid and Musky lately.

10 May 23 - 07:04 PM (#4171977)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

That's Hitlarious spell check.

12 May 23 - 07:52 PM (#4172094)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I learned there are 50,000 sub-sea volcanos, The eruption at Tonga led to the discovery. While only 10 are active in our lifetime, volcanos will have to be added the the complex global warming equation.

12 May 23 - 08:31 PM (#4172097)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

What are you talking about? Only ten? Utter nonsense. As for their impact on climate change, they've been erupting since time immemorial and can't be factored into the discussion on climate change. Unless, of course, you're the kind of charlatan who would rather like to, because it might seem to exonerate the effects of humanity...

12 May 23 - 10:13 PM (#4172099)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Severe eruptions have drastically lowered global temperatures at least 3 times in the last 2,000 years.

13 May 23 - 04:09 AM (#4172111)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

How do we know that is true, Donuel? Given your record of making things up, you know that most people will disbelieve it.

And what does it matter if it did anyway given that, in the last 20000 years, temperature on land rose by 1.59°C while over the ocean it rose only by 0.88°C (Source Wikipedia)

13 May 23 - 05:34 AM (#4172116)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Mount Pinatubo went off with a VE6 bang (a big one, in other words) on my fortieth birthday in 1991. Global temperatures dropped by about 0.5°C for a year or two. A couple of things. That's quite a drop but it's not drastic, and it was temporary. Second, there are plenty of factors that can affect global temperatures, La Niña and El Niño for example, as well as the state of the atmospheric circulation at the time of things such as eruptions. So who knows whether it was one thing or a combination of things which caused the dip. If we stick to the science we know and avoid sweeping statements, with sensationalist words such as "drastic" left out, we might edge nearer to the truth, eh, Donuel? Oh, and give us your details of those eruptions.

13 May 23 - 06:03 AM (#4172117)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Sorry for the typo 20000=2000

13 May 23 - 06:50 AM (#4172121)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Can you lend me £2000, Dave? Just write the cheque in a hurry...   :-)

13 May 23 - 07:23 AM (#4172124)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

My favourite eruption of all time is the Campanian Ignimbrite of 40,000 years ago. It left a caldera eight miles across, mostly under the sea these days in the Gulf of Pozzuoli near Naples, about twelve miles from Vesuvius. On land the main bit still left is the Solfatara crater near Pozzuoli. We scared ourselves to death by visiting it in 2013. It's full of fumaroles and boiling mud pools. San Gennaro, the patron saint of Naples, was beheaded there in the fourth century. You can see his bones sticking out of a big urn in the crypt of the Duomo in Naples. The crater has been closed since 2017 following a terrible accident which killed three members of a family when the ground gave way. The whole area is seismically active and Pozzuoli was largely evacuated in the early 1980s when the ground heaved up by two metres. It went down again but a watchful eye is kept. The Campanian Ignimbrite might have chilled the planet by a degree for a year or two and it's been implicated in hastening the demise of the Neanderthals. Sophia Loren came from Pozzuoli. It's good round there!

13 May 23 - 07:48 AM (#4172126)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

12 or so years ago I was explaining quantum movement here and referred to this actual experiment that resembled quantum particle waves.
QUANTUM PARTICLE WAVES SEEN WITH HUMAN EYES
Even the peculiar pilot waves can be seen!

13 May 23 - 08:02 AM (#4172127)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Here is a deeper view of the same experiment.oil droplets pm vibrating substrate

What I find most telling of the 'universe' is the vibrating substrate.

13 May 23 - 10:29 AM (#4172131)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

For the advanced scientist, this discussion by Maudlin points out the importance of philosophy to point out hidden false assumptions. Once again this is for folks who are willing to go all the way down the rabbit hole. Tim Maudlin

He shows how the particle or wave question covered up the truth that it has always been both. The schools that just tell students to 'shut up and calculate' murder creativity and truth. He even mentions how matter is an emergent state of the energetic substrate of the universe. The concept of field theory began as the notion of an 'ether' in days past.

The question of the deterministic and nondeterministic nature of reality is a favorite of mine and explains a lot pf my POV.

My memory can recreate the words of a past post but can not accurately place a date in time. Basically, you were amused by my description but did not grasp the meaning and implications. Thats OK, no one can grasp the entirety of quantum mechanics. Not even Einstien.

13 May 23 - 07:08 PM (#4172173)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So who here are the advanced scientists?

14 May 23 - 09:25 AM (#4172203)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Surely a presentation to advanced scientists should not be on a KISS thread anyway. This is supposed to be about making either science or Donuel's thoughts on science easy to understand. Isn't it?

14 May 23 - 09:39 AM (#4172204)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Just. Ignore. Him.

14 May 23 - 11:54 AM (#4172209)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The only thing necessary for the triumph of Mudcat trolls is that good men do nothing :-D

14 May 23 - 11:57 AM (#4172210)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

He shows how the particle or wave question covered up the truth that it has always been both. The schools that just tell students to 'shut up and calculate' murder creativity and truth

I remember being taught about the dual nature of matter in my A level physics class, back in the 1960s. It's shrouded in the mists of time but the name de Broglie comes to mind. It didn't seem to me that anyone was trying to hide anything.

DC

14 May 23 - 01:34 PM (#4172212)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

‘Good Men’ don’t seem to be having much of positive effect on him, Dave. Just giving him encouragement.

14 May 23 - 02:49 PM (#4172214)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Few people have the imagination to see reality
Quote: Goethe
I have often thought that humans have not identified all the elementary particles. Almost all the ones we have realized have an antiparticle. The interaction of these elementary sub-particles is what quantum field theory is about.

14 May 23 - 02:49 PM (#4172215)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Watching Marvel's "Quantumania'. Makes as much sense as anything on here and is fam more entertaining:-)

14 May 23 - 02:50 PM (#4172216)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As Richard Feynman found, anti-particles mathematically could be said to be moving backward in time, not that they actually were, but it was a good tool to incorporate their value in math. There are many such tools to aid understanding. Space for example can be called a field with points of existence. Perturbations in that field can be called waves. These tools for learning are 'made up' but they are agreed upon lies compared to reality. AlsoI suspect there are far more bosons than are in the standard model

14 May 23 - 03:07 PM (#4172221)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This is the tac I am currently taking to look into an alternative view of dark matter. The Marvel universe incorporates science in their plots. The multiverse is science but it is not a fact.

15 May 23 - 07:06 AM (#4172252)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I wanted to say something about Goethe but we seem to be back to being able to post short things only.

15 May 23 - 07:55 AM (#4172255)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

What's a "tac"? Did you leave out the tic?

15 May 23 - 11:43 AM (#4172265)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Reports from the color blind (red-green or all grey scale) are coming in that magic mushrooms enhance color perception from weeks to months.

15 May 23 - 12:54 PM (#4172267)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I never knew colour perception was measured in timescales!

I live and learn...

15 May 23 - 03:25 PM (#4172281)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

This is your brain on drugs, to recall an old PSA.

15 May 23 - 05:02 PM (#4172289)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Another try with my Goethe post...

?Hmm. Great man though Goethe undoubtedly was, he was very much up his own bottom when it came to his pronouncements on what he regarded as philosophical matters. There are hundreds of millions of people who not only understand the gritty reality of life but who also have to live it day after day. Sitting in your ivory tower musing about the higher flights of what you regard as reality is, well, just a bit unreal, ironically. A contemporary of Goethe who suffered the privations of chronic ill-health and unrequited love, and who died at a much younger age, produced far greater art than Goethe and never bothered to make high-flown pronouncements about the deficits of his fellow humans. His name was Ludwig van Beethoven. He and Goethe knew each other and didn't get on. I'm not surprised.

15 May 23 - 10:56 PM (#4172298)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The tenuous, outermost layer of the solar atmosphere — spike upwards of 2 million degrees Fahrenheit, while just 1,000 miles below, the underlying surface simmers at a balmy 10,000 F.
The reason for this has been discovered. The reason is remarkable.

16 May 23 - 08:24 AM (#4172317)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

This is the 2018 article from which you extracted your opening line, Donuel. Listening to the talk it seems that the coronal heating problem was put down to either Alfvén waves or nano flares with many scientists thinking that it was a combination of both. The latest news that I can find, from 24 March 2022, is that The Sun's Puzzling Heating Problem Is Closer to Being Solved but still remains a puzzle. Do you have later information?

16 May 23 - 01:09 PM (#4172343)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The breaking and connection of electromagnetic lines of force


In internet parlance, a troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community.


??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????
An analysis of a very large number of trolls reveals that, contrary to a benign belief, their purpose is not amusement, annoying others, drawing attention, or to disrupt a discussion by a foolish contradiction of common knowledge; rather they are driven by motives that are nothing but sinister.

16 May 23 - 01:43 PM (#4172348)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Trolling, is also a way of demonstrating their numerical strength and thus constitutes an indirect threat that they will prevail by sheer numbers, if not by merit.

That is why the conventional wisdom of not feeding the trolls by simply ignoring them or not responding to them does little to them. Isolated trolls could be ignored, not thousands of them. Moreover, since many of them contain implicit or explicit threats of violence and sexual violence, some of them might need to be reported to the police also.

Personality traits

Many trolls are actually dangerously depraved people because their viciousness is agenda-driven. Whatever they write, they write deliberately, not on impulse, and this puts more purpose into it.

For them the online virtual world is just an extension of the real world where they do horrible things. Dr. Jennifer Golbeck of the University of Maryland writes that trolling is linked with the ‘Dark Tetrad’ of personality traits.


The ‘Dark Triad’ of personality traits is characterised by psychopathy (continuous anti-social behaviour, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits and remorselessness), Machiavellianism (manipulation and exploitation of others, an absence of morality, unemotional callousness, and a higher level of self-interest) and Narcissism (by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy).

Adding sadism (cruel or demeaning behaviour to others, or intentionally inflicts physical, sexual, or psychological pain or suffering on others in order to assert power and dominance or for pleasure and enjoyment) makes up the ‘Dark Tetrad’.

In the early years of online forums, posting insults and profanity was called flaming and its more aggravated form was called “shitposting”. Then there was “hit-and-run posting” where someone posted something offensive and then disappeared.

We also had online shaming and cyberbullying in which targets were publicly humiliated or harassed. It would be a serious mistake to think that trolling of the kind we encounter in India is a virulent form of self-righteousness, as some people believe—they have obviously not seen the muck here.

trolls do not leave any doubt that they hate their targets so much that they would like to do horrible things to them and their ilk. Anonymity on the internet leads to the online toxic disinhibition effect, which makes the darker side of their personality burst forth easily because of pack mentality.

In his article ‘How the internet created an age of rage’, Tim Adams cites Tom Postmes, professor of social and organisational psychology at the universities of Exeter and Groningen.

Postmes says, “Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.”

16 May 23 - 01:47 PM (#4172349)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The Alfvén waves are electromagnetic lines of force and have been known about for a long time. They are thought to contribute to the coronal heating problem but do not fully explain it. Nano flares also contribute but again do not fully explain the phenomenon. Experts seem to agree that we are closer to solving the problem but are not there yet.

I shall ask again. Do you have more up to date information?

The rest of your post makes no sense in this context so it is best ignored.

16 May 23 - 02:17 PM (#4172355)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What is new is the revelation that electromagnetic activity happens on a scale that goes down to scales too small for our instruments to resolve. In years past only large lines of force were observed. Assuming a resolution down to atomic scales, the energy-temperature relationship works. A knowledge of the energy increase caused by a twisting of magnetic fields might be applied elsewhere in human exploration.

16 May 23 - 04:02 PM (#4172366)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Yes, we know that Don. It is there in both articles I linked. But the phrase you started with is "The reason for this has been discovered". Again, both the article you were quoting from and the one I subsequently linked state quite clearly that the coronal heating problem has NOT been solved yet. The reason has NOT been discovered as far as I can see. For the third time, do you have any information more up to date that March 2022?

I don't know where you copied your long diatribe on trolls from, have no intention of finding who you have plagiarised and have no idea what you hope to achieve by it.

16 May 23 - 06:09 PM (#4172371)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home

He's trolling as usual.

16 May 23 - 06:40 PM (#4172372)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In internet parlance, a troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community.

16 May 23 - 06:47 PM (#4172373)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

An 11 foot sea rise was predicted 250 years from now.
That time line could be cut in half or more with the data coming in from the western Antarctic glacier melting.

16 May 23 - 06:59 PM (#4172375)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

btw It was discovered the Earth orbits the Sun and not the other way around. It's an oldie but goodie.

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

16 May 23 - 07:01 PM (#4172376)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

So I guess there is no more up to date information and "The reason for this has been discovered" is not really true then.

Sigh. I really thought you had some new news. You fooled me.

16 May 23 - 07:07 PM (#4172378)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

He copied the troll diatribe from The Wire. The article is all about trolling in India and I can't help thinking it was written by a victim. As for "An 11 foot sea rise was predicted 250 years from now" I can't stick around for 250 years waiting for that prediction to be made. On the other hand, I should like to see the modelling that supports that prediction. If conditions on earth worsen to the extent that a sea level rise of that magnitude comes about quickly, we'll have a lot more to worry about than just that.

17 May 23 - 03:00 AM (#4172390)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book."

Once again posted with no hint of irony :-)

17 May 23 - 07:33 AM (#4172411)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I find wisdom in anecdotal evidence. Some of the greatest baseball champions have a neurological advantage in seeing fast things in slow motion. Like ear training, it is something many can learn. It can happen in emergencies like witnessing a 90mph car accident. I recall watching a man spill out the back seat as the car started cartwheeling and seeing him slide on his butt down the meridian with wide eyes going 80 mph. As a child, I saw what I called lightning people. In college, I could speed up my vision until the flicker of fluorescent light became individual flashes. These kinds of experiences can be called phenomenology since they are aspects of consciousness. Some things are experiential and not a fact for everyone all the time.

17 May 23 - 08:43 AM (#4172414)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I was watching a show called secrets under the ice when the concern about the western Antarctic glaciers melting was shown. It looked kosher to me. I wouldn't buy land in Florida.

17 May 23 - 09:06 AM (#4172417)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I used to watch Oscar Levant on the Jack Parr show. I am delighted a play, 'Goodnight Oscar' will reintroduce this genius to the world.

17 May 23 - 09:10 AM (#4172418)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Real Estate doesn't look like a good long term investment down here but Florida led the nation in immigration last year. I won't be around to see the sequel to the epic flop "Water World" but I pity those who will. Some friends and acquaintances have been pulling up stakes for the mountains of Western North Carolina and I've been thinking of doing that myself.

17 May 23 - 09:21 AM (#4172419)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Levant played himself in a lukewarm bio pic of his buddy George Gershwin and was the best thing in it, as I recall.

17 May 23 - 09:53 AM (#4172424)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Oscar had a love/hate relationship with Gershwin. Levant dreamed of one day rivaling George in composition but his talents were elsewhere, especially on the piano, in movies, and as a raconteur.

17 May 23 - 10:11 AM (#4172425)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I admired how his genius shown thru his affectations, tics, addiction, and the mental illness of depression.

17 May 23 - 10:29 AM (#4172428)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

Who was it that said that? I can't remember... :-D

17 May 23 - 01:39 PM (#4172442)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A troll is generally defined as a person who posts abusive, insulting, inflammatory, extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community by engaging in hit-and-run extraneous repetitive noise and ad hominem attacks. I think of Dave as someone's Toadie or a copy cat kitten and not the full-fledged pSyCHo. We need all the serious fantasy writers we can get.

17 May 23 - 01:51 PM (#4172443)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Personal attacks. The failsafe of someone who has nothing left.

17 May 23 - 02:49 PM (#4172444)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And who's that "someone," Donuel?

17 May 23 - 03:31 PM (#4172445)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

So you all know that this is an extremely flawed thread and if you're here duking it out I will presume you want to get in there and verbally duke it out and subject yourselves to insults. I've weeded out some in the past but I don't read this every day. If you don't like the state of this discourse, there are many other fine threads running on Mudcat.

17 May 23 - 04:08 PM (#4172446)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I don't believe that you are saying that anything goes on this thread, Stilly. Are you?

17 May 23 - 05:45 PM (#4172449)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Wrong question. It should be "is this the kind of thread that any moderator is actually interested in reading in order to be the playground monitor." No, it isn't. There are some interesting tidbits dropped in here, and I wish each of you would stick with the interesting stuff and

ignore the nonsense.

Some of you have spent a lot of time insulting each other here and when someone complains and I look at the most recent complaint then work my way back, I find alternating insults exchanged and am frankly not interested in pruning out the nonsense and then seeing if it all still "makes sense." When someone complains I look at who threw the first punch? It depends entirely on how far back in the thread I end up going. It's filled with ad hominem insults. Stop attacking each others' characters and discuss the simple ideas or ignore them and move on.

It's either get along or close the thread. Entirely up to all of you.

17 May 23 - 06:03 PM (#4172454)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The thread is very unfocused in the sense that, because of the way its originator is behaving with his random inputs, it's impossible to "go off-topic." I know that you try to accentuate the positive with him, Maggie, and that's laudable. But the half-baked science, the uninformed assertions and the puffing of the chest regarding the quasi-mystical skills he claims to possess are at the core of the nonsense you refer to. You're almost certainly right when you say we should ignore it, but please don't equate the rest of us with him in a blanket characterisation of the nonsense, and don't be too surprised when some of us bite back at his "if you don't believe in Donuel you're a trolling idiot" insinuations!

17 May 23 - 06:39 PM (#4172459)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

There are no innocent parties here - you can choose to ignore the parts that don't make sense. I'm not defending what Don posts, I just skip past the parts that don't interest me. It's a BS thread, so the bar is low (or non-existent) and perhaps my own background with stream-of-consciousness-filled conversations (a family trait?) makes it easier to ignore. You should do the same. When anyone decides to make a stand they're setting up an altercation that isn't pretty and doesn't contribute anything useful or interesting. Just move on.

Political smears, hate speech, and other things that get people kicked out aren't happening here.

17 May 23 - 06:41 PM (#4172460)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Agreed Stilly and I hold up my hands, to apologise for my input into the fracas. Lets rewind to what I thought was a sensible question. I am not redoing the links as anyone can go back to the original posts.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 16 May 23 - 08:24 AM

This is the 2018 article from which you extracted your opening line, Donuel. Listening to the talk it seems that the coronal heating problem was put down to either Alfvén waves or nano flares with many scientists thinking that it was a combination of both. The latest news that I can find, from 24 March 2022, is that The Sun's Puzzling Heating Problem Is Closer to Being Solved but still remains a puzzle. Do you have later information?

I am interested in following this up as I think it is one of the "interesting tidbits". So, no diversion into trolling or other nonsense. Donuel, do you have any further information that was not discussed in those articles that leads you to believe your assertion that "The reason for this (coronal heating problem) has been discovered. The reason is remarkable."? If so can you please point me in the right direction. If not, a simple no will do. The fate of the thread is now in your hands!

17 May 23 - 06:53 PM (#4172461)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Everything is copasetic. The rainbow of scientific views is as wide as
the electrodynamic spectrum. God forbid if it were ever focused.
A collection of curious notions is more interesting than cosmology 24/7. For me, it's like a crossword puzzle to sharpen my memory.

17 May 23 - 06:59 PM (#4172462)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Dave, I think the answer you got just now boils down to "no." Try entering some of the keywords on this topic into Google Scholar. You can filter the results to books, articles, films, etc. And let us know what you find.

17 May 23 - 06:59 PM (#4172463)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

But this thread is about keeping it simple so can you just tell me, simply, what new information you have on the coronal heating problem.

17 May 23 - 07:28 PM (#4172464)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The mysteries in life is the stuff of great Art.
Appreciating the Art of mysteries is simple.
You do or don't.
I'm about whats next.
If I am right about a conclusion I am as surprised as anyone
All glory or discovery is fleeting.
The rest is your usual bag of trouble/problems.

17 May 23 - 07:56 PM (#4172466)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As I said in fewer words, the magnification of heat energy by millions of times like in the sun's corona by twisting and breaking magnetic fields is a big deal. What if...it was applied to forming plasma in a fusion reaction generator? Or some other application. Magnifying heat energy is a powerful tool. Just don't ask me exactly how...I don't know. Amplifiers are hot but never this hot.

18 May 23 - 02:18 AM (#4172476)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I did that, Stilly, and the answers I found were linked in my first post on this subject. I was intrigued by what I found and wanted to know what extra information Donuel had found to conclude that the problem had been solved. I think you are right to surmise that there is none. I am disappointed but glad I fact checked. I am no wiser as to the cause of coronal heating but now know much more about Donuel's "facts". You win some, you lose some :-)

18 May 23 - 02:24 AM (#4172478)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Dave, maybe RefDesk: Fact Checker for the Internet will help. I have the link in my bookmarks but often forget it's there. A very simple page format, all linked text, but keep scrolling down and you'll find several places that might give you a starting point for some of the clarification or debunking you want to do for this thread.

18 May 23 - 07:31 AM (#4172499)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most contentious subject is consciousness. People can be empowered by new understanding or scared by it. Denial is the default setting for all brains. We usually ignore 99% of what we perceive. Perception and consciousness are separate systems and are united only when the entire brain is fully involved. So you only really see 1% of your visual field, the rest is an illusion created by the brain. Your eyes move 3 times a second and sample different areas 1% at a time. Colors are the last to be interpreted in areas forward from the rear occipital areas. Compromises are made by the brain when background colors are compared. Thats why the blue dress looked gold to some but not others. Who is the boss of your brain is the question that can be most challenging to many people. WE'LL GO THERE NEXT.
For Dave: It is forever true regarding the fact that some information may be new to you but not others and vice versa.

18 May 23 - 08:18 AM (#4172502)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I was surprised to learn that every time we access a long-term memory our brain has to reconstruct it. By looking at it we diminish it.
Memories fade and can change when they are poorly reconstructed.
I

18 May 23 - 01:55 PM (#4172519)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Write them down and that helps with their durability.

19 May 23 - 01:08 PM (#4172596)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

But write them down in private please... :-D

19 May 23 - 06:36 PM (#4172611)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

AI MRIs can read minds.
source: New York Times

19 May 23 - 06:51 PM (#4172614)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It takes at least 16 hours. But it works!

19 May 23 - 07:04 PM (#4172616)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I've also watched the interview with the originator scientist and the ethical concerns from another scientist.

19 May 23 - 07:15 PM (#4172618)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Bullshit.

19 May 23 - 07:35 PM (#4172621)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

dear lord rutherford, your skepticism is unfounded and is again objectively WRONG.

20 May 23 - 08:38 AM (#4172645)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"AI MRIs can read minds."

That is nothing but a sensationalist headline. You cannot support that in any detail whatsoever with proper sources, simply because it isn't true. I'd like to say that it's your usual half-baked nonsense, but it isn't even that.

20 May 23 - 09:06 AM (#4172648)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Teens are said to be exposed to and cause toxic social media. You sir are a toxic teen in the social media sphere.

20 May 23 - 09:38 AM (#4172653)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/01/ai-makes-non-invasive-mind-reading-possible-by-turning-thoughts-into-text

Steve warning
If you click you will own your guilt of spreading misinformation

20 May 23 - 10:03 AM (#4172656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So, you've read that, have you? And you came away from reading it to tell us the MRIs can "read our minds"? All I can suggest is that you read it again, properly this time.

20 May 23 - 10:34 AM (#4172659)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The history of lie detection in America from the 30s to the 70s was a big deal and virtually absent in Europe. I was subjected to the rigamarole several times. It was promoted by 2 pioneers in the field.

20 May 23 - 12:11 PM (#4172663)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The lie detector was actual bullshit but became a favorite of corporate America because it sometimes inspired confessions.

AI MRI technology actually reveals the gist of what people are thinking and provides a narrative. I do not know how a subject could manipulate results but time will tell as well as authoritarian's abuse of the tech.

20 May 23 - 02:43 PM (#4172677)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

Here's the gist: "Prof Shinji Nishimoto, of Osaka University, who has pioneered the reconstruction of visual images from brain activity, described the paper as a “significant advance”. “The paper showed that the brain represents continuous language information during perception and imagination in a compatible way,” he said. “This is a non-trivial finding and can be a basis for the development of brain-computer interfaces."

Improving upon its current ability is a fairly alarming concept. At the very least, it would mean another leap into the unknown.

I have my reservations concerning Elon Musk but when he's talking about the dangers of AI, he is convincing.

20 May 23 - 04:14 PM (#4172683)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I think Donuel ought to refer to a reliable dictionary in order to look up the word "gist."

21 May 23 - 04:05 PM (#4172745)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am not an expert on AI BUT I have been following its progress for a decade.
I suggest listening to the American MRI AI Researcher interview on MSNBC Ari Melber last week.

21 May 23 - 06:02 PM (#4172755)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well you do seem to be a self-styled expert on all sorts of things, so I suppose I should salute your temporary outbreak of humility.

The thing about MRI scans reading our minds has two aspects. First, MRI scans can't read our minds. Duh. Second, the scaremongers seem to be forgetting that no-one can actually be forced into an MRI scanner.

22 May 23 - 12:42 AM (#4172783)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

OH I see how you are terribly mistaken. It is the AI algorithm that associates brain activity to certain words not the MRI. Then the AI runs the algorithm in reverse.

22 May 23 - 04:43 AM (#4172797)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So now it can be done without an MRI scanner, eh? What are you saying? Do make your confused mind up. By the way, this is not even getting close to mind-reading. You should get a job as a gutter tabloid headline writer.

22 May 23 - 06:06 AM (#4172801)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I knew you were going to say that...

22 May 23 - 06:23 AM (#4172803)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Bad boy of letters and bleak sarcastic humor, a friend of Christopher Hitchins and Salmon Rushdie, Martin Amis dies at 73.

22 May 23 - 01:11 PM (#4172821)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Extraneous, off-topic or digressive messages in an online community are trollish in my book.

How does

Bad boy of letters and bleak sarcastic humor, a friend of Christopher Hitchins and Salmon Rushdie, Martin Amis dies at 73.

fit into a thread about simplifying alternative explanations?

DC

22 May 23 - 04:24 PM (#4172840)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Don't ask, Doug...

22 May 23 - 06:52 PM (#4172851)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Martin was a kindred spirit. Perhaps you do not recognize a countryman. Thanks for the compliments and inanities.

22 May 23 - 08:12 PM (#4172857)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Amis never seemed to settle on an opinion. Just like those Hollywood stars who think they understand the world but who should really stick to acting, Martin should have stuck to writing his books.

23 May 23 - 06:43 AM (#4172880)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The irascible Martin did not produce the movie adaptation, Hollywood did. There’s that Henry de Montherlant quote: “Happiness writes in white ink on a white page.” But that suggests happiness is an ineffable state, and I don’t think it is. Curiosity is more what you need, and a sense of wonder that is constantly replenished. It’s when that runs out that you die as a writer.

23 May 23 - 09:24 AM (#4172892)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

New synthetic sapphires and quantum computers are used to see dark matter. https://scitechdaily.com/u-s-dept-of-energy-breakthrough-detecting-dark-matter-with-quantum-computers/

25 May 23 - 08:16 PM (#4173157)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The mystery that captures the imagination just as much as the search for habitable exoplanets is that of the dark universe, specifically dark matter, which is the mysterious substance held responsible for the extra gravity observed in galaxies and galaxy clusters, and dark energy, the unknown force that is driving the acceleration in the expansion of the universe.

"We think that about 75% of the whole energy-matter content of the universe is this mysterious thing that we call dark energy, and another 20% is this other mysterious stuff called dark matter," said Milam. "When astronomers don't know what something is, we label it dark. It's astounding … the hundreds of billions of galaxies and the trillions of stars and countless planets, all of that only makes up about 5% of the whole universe. And the rest, the other 95%, we don't know what it is."

27 May 23 - 09:23 AM (#4173269)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Complete GUIDE TO THE MAGA CULTURE WAR:
Pardon all convicts victimized by the weaponization of law
Defund FBI, DOJ, and replace the CONSTITUTION
REMOVE WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO HEALTHCARE
Destroy all woke books, media, and Democracy
Make MAGA history the only true history
Keep .... the following goals a secret
Take away all women's right to vote
Remove all women's right to serve
Make our President serve for life
Make minorities NOT MATTER
Make blacks slaves again
Remove the courts
Burn the jews

27 May 23 - 09:34 AM (#4173271)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Goals still in consideration:
Make men toxic again
Make White Power
permanent even as
a minority

27 May 23 - 09:41 AM (#4173272)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You need a nice lie down.

27 May 23 - 12:06 PM (#4173276)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

ELON MUSK has finalized the manufacture of the Neurolink.
It is not yet approved by the FDA but trials will be by volunteers.

The Neurolink will create the Transhuman by making the brain a digital hybrid. With the gender wars the term Transhuman is subject to change.
Having access to all digital data and being able to download results by merely thinking of them has major implications such as creating a virtual new species.
Three major questions will arise in the transhuman:
1. Can mind uploading maintain personal identity keeping one's personal subjective personal experience?
2. Can nonbiological AI systems be conscious?
3. Should nonbiological intelligence have moral standing and rights?

Or will we make a new slave class of AI intelligence?

27 May 23 - 12:19 PM (#4173278)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The neuro link is surgically implanted in a sub-cranial location.
https://6abc.com/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-implant-human-test-subject/13305681/#:~:text=the%20Neuralink%20device.-,The%20device%

28 May 23 - 06:39 AM (#4173315)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In my opinion the process will depend upon a massive amount of micro wires that will connect to various crucial areas of the brain. It is surprising that the brain adapts to this 'intrusion' as well as it does.

02 Jun 23 - 07:21 AM (#4173656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Big Brother is watching. Your daily reality is that you are recorded outside your home hundreds or thousands times. Society is thoroughly accustomed to it even inside our homes on the internet.
"War is peace,” “Freedom is slavery,” and “Ignorance is strength” is the rest of the societal training.

02 Jun 23 - 07:34 AM (#4173657)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"War is peace", in Russia, if you call Ukraine a war you get many years in prison. Freedom is slavery, especially with institutional racism. “Ignorance is strength" is apparent in Trumpism, the QAnon movement, and the GOP.

02 Jun 23 - 03:00 PM (#4173674)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Pentagon wants more/different UAP DATA.
https://defensescoop.com/2023/05/31/pentagon-office-developing-new-sensors-to-better-detect-ufos/

My suggestion is to use LIDAR.
They are still running into the 75 year old stigma of being afraid of being called crazy.

02 Jun 23 - 03:57 PM (#4173681)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Is there a device to measure spacial distortion other than measuring gravity waves?

04 Jun 23 - 10:35 AM (#4173807)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Is there a device to measure spacial distortion other than measuring
> gravity waves?

Gravitational lensing? Astrophysicists use the distortions of the object lensed for assessing the mass doing the bending, and iirc can make a good stab at working out what said mass consists of.

05 Jun 23 - 07:20 AM (#4173861)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm looking for evidence that UAPs distort space and time beyond mass and energy. Jumping 20 miles in less than a second is not a technology we know about.

05 Jun 23 - 07:43 AM (#4173862)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are clues in all aspects of UAP propulsion although I can not unify them. It even seems that some UFOs are vulnerable to Earth's lightning. I do not know how that observation fits into this puzzle.
I am not that smart. We are still stymied after 70 years of taking a scientific look at this phenomenon. However, we think we know certain things. Those things are outside our accepted paradigms.

Was it Asimov who said some technology could appear to be magic?

05 Jun 23 - 08:09 AM (#4173864)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I speculate that evolved life around red dwarfs would evolve more slowly over longer periods of time which would outlive our species by long amounts of time. Our life cycle would be fast and furious going by in a blink compared to theirs. Ergo their technology could be much older than ours.

05 Jun 23 - 09:51 AM (#4173870)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Was it Asimov who said some technology could appear to be magic?

Arthur C Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." The 'Cat's having a funny five minutes on longer submissions, so I'll stop there.

05 Jun 23 - 02:43 PM (#4173890)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Of course Arthur C Clark. That was either a brain fart or the beginning of dementia or both.

06 Jun 23 - 06:26 AM (#4173947)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The mysteries in life are the stuff of great Art.
Admiring the Art of mysteries is simple.
You do or don't.
I ask what's next.
If I am right about a conclusion I am as surprised as anyone
All glory or discovery is fleeting.
The rest is your usual bag of problems.
Some see the Universe and say :why:
I see the Universe and say "why not"
When there is proof as to why not, I move on.
Asking why not allows for new thinking.
Today asking why not will be the domain of AI.
In a trillionth of a second.

06 Jun 23 - 06:36 AM (#4173948)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Its time to ask, "When conditions change and epochs fade and species become extinct, we need to ask when we are also obsolete."

07 Jun 23 - 05:51 AM (#4174009)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

News items:



Dr Max Tagmark is a top-flight physicist believes the Earth is alone as life bearing in the universe. However the alien visitation of Earth will be our own AI from the future.

More UAP disclosure is urged from insider whistle blowers regarding recovered craft by the military.

The Pope is having more intestinal surgery today.

07 Jun 23 - 05:00 PM (#4174073)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

AI growth is ultra exponential. In the movie Lucy by Luc Benson, Lucy's last minute of exponential intelligent growth is visualized.
Its hard to get your head around trillions of operations per second.
Primitive chat GPT, unfortunately, learned from the internet and hateful social media. Even when well intentioned people try to correct for prejudice, it is biased - as in the Phil Ochs song love me I'm a liberal.
It sounded like Congress took the AI hearings seriously but believe me some Senators do not have a clue.

08 Jun 23 - 06:21 AM (#4174118)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2306/ic1396ASI294large.jpg

10 Jun 23 - 01:33 PM (#4174293)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

The Pope "suffered what the Vatican said was a severe inflammation and narrowing of the colon. In an interview with The Associated Press in January, Francis said the diverticulosis, or bulges in his intestinal wall, that prompted the 2021 surgery, had returned."

They need to get more fiber in his diet. No more diet of worms.

11 Jun 23 - 05:54 PM (#4174346)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The prelude from suicide prevention was to advance a subject I will now get to directly. There are gangs of youth who compete with others to obtain suicides of kids that they troll, bully, create rumors, and such. I know because my son was a victim of such attacks and suggestions in middle school. Rather than risk further deletion I will leave it there.

11 Jun 23 - 11:00 PM (#4174370)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In the 12th century the book Lignus Verite was written. It was not published until the 15th century. It claimed Pope Benedictine would be the last Pope. If a super volcano in Naples erupted could it destroy Rome? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/campi-flegrei-volcano-closer-to-erution-last-erupted-1538-researchers/

12 Jun 23 - 04:24 AM (#4174373)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Hmm. The CBS news piece is superficial and the story has been dumbed down by someone without much understanding of the science. However, it's true that level of concern in the Campi Flegrei area has risen. In the early 1980s the degree of uplift at Pozzuoli (bradyseism) was so alarming that 40,000 residents were evacuated, but that came to nothing. The eruption in 1538 was very small, throwing up a cinder cone (Monte Nuovo) about 500 feet tall. The real biggie was about 39000 years ago when a VEI:7 eruption (the Campanian Ignimbrite) deposited material over more than a million square miles. It was probably the biggest eruption in Europe in the last 200 millennia. It's been suggested that the eruption hastened the extinction of the Neanderthals. Ground uplift and sinking (bradyseism) is a feature of the area. That, and the rather frenetic minor earthquake activity in recent years, is monitored more closely than anywhere else on earth, I should think. The Campi Flegrei caldera, along with Vesuvius only a few miles away, between them potentially threaten around three million people. I know Pozzuoli (a workaday sort of place) and have visited the scary Solfatara crater just outside the town, sadly no longer accessible after a terrible accident there in 2017. The patron saint of Naples, San Gennaro, was beheaded in the crater in the fourth century and you can see his bones in a big urn in the crypt in the Duomo in Naples (the nearby archeological museum is much more interesting). The wonderful Sophia Loren has strong connections with Pozzuoli, which is just as interesting as the volcano.

12 Jun 23 - 11:22 AM (#4174399)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

I was surprised recently to find "CBS news" in the feed in my Instagram account - I don't remember following them. I suspect they used to be something else that changed the name and are offering up more easily-digested content that ends up being trite. I looked it up - there is talk about "rebranding" but it started last year. Hmmmm. I scrolled through and found this bold fashion statement by an Iranian model. I don't remember seeing this story anywhere else. That isn't trite, and for her, it could result in dangerous repercussions at home.

12 Jun 23 - 06:32 PM (#4174431)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you live anywhere near an active or dormant volcano, you should be prepared to evacuate at a moment's notice as eruptions are not always predictable. The danger area around a volcano covers approximately a 20-mile radius; however, some danger may exist 100 miles or more from a volcano. This is Steve's expertise.

I could have used a Guardian link.

12 Jun 23 - 06:52 PM (#4174432)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It is not my expertise at all. I know the area, I've been there more than once (and will go again!) and I've looked it up using a number of sources. That's crucial. You'll learn nothing by relying on a single popular science source. I go to places and I like to know what's going on, and I've been to Campi Flegrei, I've drunk in the romance of the area (it's my favourite place on planet Earth) and, because I hate not knowing stuff, I've looked it up, and I try to keep up. I'm in awe of our planet's elemental forces, but there will be equations and other technicalities generated by the area's research stations that will be utterly beyond me. But I've been up every one of Europe's active volcanoes except for Cumbrae Vieja in the Canaries (it's on my bucket list) and I just stand on the craters' edges and shake my head. Actually, I should visit the La Palma one before half the island slumps into the Atlantic and wipes out New York with is associated tsunami...

13 Jun 23 - 01:01 PM (#4174462)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You should visit New York then, not La Palma. I think NYC looks best at night from the water POV.

14 Jun 23 - 08:41 AM (#4174521)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Back to cosmology: The biggest mistake people make in viewing the universe is that gravity is a force. It really is time curvature.
In this spacetime curvature, it is time that curves the most. In our area time curves one way in the presence of matter but far out in the universe it curves the other way. We call this an expansion of the universe but it is the effect of space time curvature so galaxies appear to be moving away from each other and not like local spacetime curvature that we call gravity, pulling things closer.
Black holes curve time so much it is a one way trip in which nothing can re emerge since they can not exceed the speed of light. What we call gravity waves are ripples in space time curvature.

14 Jun 23 - 08:44 AM (#4174522)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

What kind of chocolate do astronauts like?

Mars bars.

14 Jun 23 - 09:05 AM (#4174524)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Galaxy, Dave?

14 Jun 23 - 09:37 AM (#4174529)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Milky Way? (All by the same manufacturer, on a marketing theme).

DC

14 Jun 23 - 10:29 AM (#4174531)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Why could the astronaut not sit down?

He suffered from asteroids

14 Jun 23 - 10:45 AM (#4174532)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

OK if I borrow your van, Allen? It's a belter!

14 Jun 23 - 05:09 PM (#4174564)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Doug, there is a black hole as big as the Milky Way. It's 10 billion light-years away.

Time and space each have special degrees of freedom. Space can move faster than light and time is so flexible it can stop and locally reverse - inside a black hole.

14 Jun 23 - 05:19 PM (#4174567)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

UAPs do not portray any aspects of propulsion but they do show tricks of space and time.

14 Jun 23 - 06:02 PM (#4174571)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Doug, there is a black hole as big as the Milky Way.

I am sure that a black hole is bigger than the Milky Way that I am thinking about. Mine is made of nougat covered in chocolate and is 14cm x 13cm x 15cm.

DC

14 Jun 23 - 06:05 PM (#4174573)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just avoid the fun-size ones though, Doug. No room for them in this thread...

15 Jun 23 - 05:30 AM (#4174588)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Two theoretical physicists are lost at the top of a mountain. Theoretical physicist No 1 pulls out a map and peruses it for a while. Then he turns to theoretical physicist No 2 and says: "Hey, I've figured it out. I know where we are."
"Where are we then?"
"Do you see that mountain over there?"
"Yes."
"Well… THAT'S where we are."

15 Jun 23 - 03:45 PM (#4174637)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The blue dot is a planetary nebula-home of galactic overlords?

The blue dot is a planetary nebula-home of galactic overlords?

15 Jun 23 - 04:48 PM (#4174644)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

A photon books into a hotel and the manager asks where its suitcase is. The photon replies, “I didn’t bring any luggage. I’m traveling light.”

A photon books into a hotel and the manager asks where its suitcase is. The photon replies, “I didn’t bring any luggage. I’m traveling light.”

15 Jun 23 - 04:56 PM (#4174648)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Johnny two times always tells a joke twice.

15 Jun 23 - 04:57 PM (#4174649)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Is it just me, or do others find this diffraction grating?

15 Jun 23 - 05:16 PM (#4174652)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

What's a diffraction grating and where did you find it?

15 Jun 23 - 05:45 PM (#4174656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> What's a diffraction grating

A set of lines separated by not much: I once saw a piece of glass ruled with 3000 lines per inch diffract a beam of monochromatic light by thirty degrees or so, much to the teacher's surprise.

> and where did you find it?

If you can't get to a physics lab or a school, turn over a CD or DVD under white light, and look for the reflection with the rainbow pattern. The effect's wavelength-dependent.

.... Oh, and look up "double-slit experiment" for why I made the comment in the first place. We now return you to the KISS Principle.

15 Jun 23 - 07:08 PM (#4174659)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Oil drop on vibrating water demonstrates how particle waves behave as they pass through a double slit in the lab. The beads of oil even show how pilot waves behave. Also in the lab you can produce the equivalent of a black hole using acoustics.

15 Jun 23 - 07:40 PM (#4174663)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Some butterfly wings have a diffraction grating that produces colored patterns. A moire pattern can sometimes make a color.

16 Jun 23 - 02:23 AM (#4174683)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Hey, CDs and DVDs are rarer than schools nowadays :-)

I saw the double slot experiment but I wasn't sure if it changed because I was watching it...

16 Jun 23 - 05:33 AM (#4174687)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Thanks, Donuel; that's reminded me .... many birds' feather colours are produced by interference effects rather than coloured chemicals. Peacocks come to mind. You can spot the ones that do this by the way the colour shimmers as you and/or the bird moves.

.... Which has reminded me of certain car colours, which change with the angle of view. The constabulary do not love the owners, as this effect confuses crime-scene reportage.

16 Jun 23 - 06:32 PM (#4174709)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I will look into making acoustic black holes in the basement.
I have no idea how they work or what they do. How hard could it be.

17 Jun 23 - 08:07 AM (#4174741)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

WATCH CNN AT 8 PM SUNDAY!

17 Jun 23 - 08:09 AM (#4174743)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

There are 3 types of people in this world
Those who understand quantum computing

Those who do not understand quantum computing

And those who both simultaneously do and do not understand quantum computing

17 Jun 23 - 08:34 AM (#4174746)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

The Simpsons had a black hole in their basement and pretty much everything got sucked into it as I recall, so I say yeah, go for it.
Jes kiddin', (sort of).

17 Jun 23 - 09:33 AM (#4174754)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> .... 3 types of people ....

I think it's slightly worse than that, DtG, but I can't for the life of me find (quickly) who it was who said that, if you think you understand quantum mechanics, then you don't. Corrections invited, and I'll integrate them over all worlds .... I think.

17 Jun 23 - 09:53 AM (#4174756)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

There are 10 types of people

Those who can work in binary and those who can't

17 Jun 23 - 10:00 AM (#4174757)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Even those who suspect Quantum Theory is incomplete/wrong do not understand it. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your Quantum field philosophy”

I don't know what a Whore Ratio is.

17 Jun 23 - 10:07 AM (#4174760)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Despite that... QT is correct to one part in a billion.

17 Jun 23 - 10:25 AM (#4174764)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

I'll see you that joke, DtG, and raise you "All the world's an analogue stage, and computers only have bit parts".

17 Jun 23 - 10:34 AM (#4174766)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I went into the jewellers to buy a watch.

"Analogue?" The assistant asked.

"No, just a watch."

17 Jun 23 - 04:35 PM (#4174794)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

What goes "Pieces of seven, pieces of seven"?

Parity failure

18 Jun 23 - 04:02 AM (#4174825)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Oooh, good'n, DtG, but that's a bit niche.

18 Jun 23 - 07:54 AM (#4174832)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Zen Crossword Puzzle; 1. down - nothing    1. across - nothing

19 Jun 23 - 06:54 AM (#4174914)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Budhist goes up to a hot dog seller

"Make me one with everything"

19 Jun 23 - 07:03 AM (#4174916)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Supermassive black holes are so huge they do not have time to evolve in our universe so they are theorized that they are an artifact that comes from BEFORE our big bang.

19 Jun 23 - 07:24 AM (#4174918)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You can't have "before the Big Bang."

19 Jun 23 - 07:29 AM (#4174920)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Study the work of Dr. Roger Penrose, Nobel Prize winner.
The big bang was a quantum event, not a collapse.

19 Jun 23 - 07:42 AM (#4174924)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A supermassive black hole can be as big as the Milky Way. Imagine the density and the repulsive dark energy. This could be an explanation for the inflation of space.

19 Jun 23 - 07:58 AM (#4174926)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Study the work of Dr. Roger Penrose, Nobel Prize winner."

Well we can all appeal to authority (a well-known logical fallacy), so I'll do the same. Study the work of Stephen Hawking, who regarded the concept of "before" with regard to the Big Bang as meaningless.

Any more for any more?

19 Jun 23 - 08:02 AM (#4174927)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The cyclic nature of our universe is not a testable experiment but is a rational possibility.

19 Jun 23 - 08:24 AM (#4174931)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Stephen Hawking was interested in the cyclic universe theory, which proposes that the universe goes through an infinite series of cycles, each beginning with a Big Bang and ending with a Big Crunch which we now know ends in all black holes. However, he did not explicitly endorse the theory, as there is currently no direct observational evidence to support it.

In his final book "Brief Answers to the Big Questions," published posthumously in 2018, Hawking wrote about the cyclic universe theory and stated that it was a possibility worth exploring. He noted that the theory could potentially explain some of the mysteries of our universe, such as the uniformity of cosmic microwave background radiation and the abundance of light elements. However, he also acknowledged that the theory faced significant challenges, such as the problem of entropy increase from one cycle to the next.

Overall, while Hawking did not fully endorse the theory it was worth exploring. This is far from the claim he found it meaningless.

19 Jun 23 - 08:30 AM (#4174932)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

OK, calm down, folks: much depends on one's weapon mathematical model of choice when dealing with the initial singularity (mis)called the Big Bang. Some recent models say there was a *before*, and others say nay; but once you extrapolate as far as the singularity, all bets is off.

There's also a common misconception that the Universe is expanding; this caught out some astrophysicists to begin with, as red shift looks uncommonly like Doppler shift. The way I had the effect explained to me is that space itself is expanding, and dragging the Universe with it.

19 Jun 23 - 08:32 AM (#4174933)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Ergo, supermassive black holes could be the direct observational evidence we were looking for. That which is impossible deserves an explanation and the cyclic universe is it.

19 Jun 23 - 08:42 AM (#4174935)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

The cyclic Universe is *one* explanation. We await testable predictions; but I am willing to admit that I'm a bear of very little brane.

19 Jun 23 - 08:57 AM (#4174937)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I think another brane is where virtual particles come from. Another brane might even be the domain of dark matter and where gravity is at its greatest effect. At least I try to think for myself.

I do not think the grat attractor is evidence of an intruding brane.

19 Jun 23 - 09:14 AM (#4174938)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speaking of little 'brains', mine is tiny. My hat size is only found in children's sizes. Size has its place but so does activity.

19 Jun 23 - 09:28 AM (#4174941)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speaking of size the Universe is finite.

Due to the finite speed of light, and the finite age of the Universe, only a portion of it is observable. When people talk about "the size of the Universe", "the number of stars in the Universe", etc., they usually refer to the observable Universe, i.e. the sphere in which we are centered, and which has a radius given by the distance light has been able to travel in the 13.8 billion years since the Big Bang. Note that since the Universe is expanding, this radius is more than 13.8 billion light-years. In fact it's probably 46.3 billion light-years.

Observations indicate that, on large scales (i.e. above roughly half a billion light-years), the Universe is homogeneous (the same everywhere) and isotropic (the same in all directions). Assuming that this is indeed true is known as the cosmological principle. If the rest of the Universe follows this principle, then there are three possible overall "versions" of universes that we can live in. We call these versions "flat", "closed", and "open". Whereas a globally closed universe would have a finite extent, globally flat or open universes must be infinitely large.

The observable Universe is, within measuring uncertainties but to a very high precision, flat. Hence, we might think that the whole Universe is, in fact, infinite. But sort of like standing in a large forest with limited visibility doesn't tell you whether the forest is just larger than you can see, or if it's infinitely large, we can't with our current theories and observations know whether the Universe is finite or infinite.

19 Jun 23 - 09:34 AM (#4174942)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If the Universe was a bra it would be bigger than an H cup.

19 Jun 23 - 09:45 AM (#4174944)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As you can see I can not visualize what a flat universe means, but it would give hope to the holographic crowd.

19 Jun 23 - 09:54 AM (#4174946)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

“Asking what came before the Big Bang is meaningless, according to the no-boundary proposal, because there is no notion of time available to refer to,” Hawking said in another lecture at the Pontifical Academy in 2016, a year and a half before his death. “It would be like asking what lies south of the South Pole.”

It would be good if you could refrain from extrapolating extra and unwarranted meaning from the very simple statement I made.

19 Jun 23 - 10:06 AM (#4174949)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I'd like to explain what happened before the Big Bang.

Unfortunately, there's no time.

19 Jun 23 - 10:27 AM (#4174953)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Calling the Universe "flat" is a statement about its geometry: it states that the curvature of space is zero, but says nothing about its topology. For more information, see the zero-curvature subsection of the Wikipedia page about the shape of the Universe (which looks reasonably accurate to me, despite the warning notices); the page offers ways to visualise the different geometries. Hope this helps.

20 Jun 23 - 07:44 AM (#4175026)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dave the Gnome has been more clever than usual. I had too much coffee yesterday. Time curvature is flat. Decades some thought a straight line could eventually come back on itself. The path of light is more like playing Plinko.

There has to be a state prior to the big bang. The realm was dark with fading black holes after trillions of years to the millionth power (a long time) The realm was a homogenous empty quantum realm undergoing entropy to the point where size has no meaning. An energy potential still existed in this emptiness on the cusp of an entropic state change. A quantum rip occurred sending a change throughout the space in a very sudden state change.
The initial expansion without a fully formed measure of time would appear faster than light in a space we call inflation. Relative to our viewpoint inflation looks impossible. But we are in a future with a different quality of spacetime.

This is a very different idea from the big crunch. It is more like a big rip.

The questions regarding an entropic quantum state change involves a lower energy state universe OR NOT. Perhaps the forming new universe is the same or different. This is the quandary Hawking had.

20 Jun 23 - 09:24 AM (#4175037)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As the dark quantum realm emptied into our new universe I can see how objects like super massive black holes could pass on through the state change whole. Many of these early black holes are seen as quasars today. Born huge and whole these immense black holes are definitely not stellar black holes.

20 Jun 23 - 09:41 AM (#4175040)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"There has to be a state prior to the big bang."

Sez you.

20 Jun 23 - 04:35 PM (#4175065)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Sez Nobel Prize winning genius'.

20 Jun 23 - 04:54 PM (#4175067)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Whatever was before the big bang is beyond the ken of top scientists, let alone us enthusiastic amateurs. It may be fun to speculate but stop pretending you know, Don.

I fully appreciate that you find such speculation fun but putting across as fact only highlights your lack of understanding.

20 Jun 23 - 05:09 PM (#4175071)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The subject is less impactful than cheese mold in our daily lives but my exploring ideas is not within your grasp, authority or whim. There might be a whiff of pretending in the arena of speculation but so what. I suggest you sue me.

20 Jun 23 - 05:37 PM (#4175078)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your exploring ideas, alas, often comes across as rather delusional.

21 Jun 23 - 02:32 AM (#4175104)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Yes Don. Lots of your posts are beyond anyone's grasp. Which is why I asked you to clarify some and, to date, that is something that you have failed to do. I have no problem at all with that but as you have the right to post your speculations online, we have the right to point out that they are not facts. Something else that you often fail to do.

21 Jun 23 - 07:43 AM (#4175151)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I clarify to the point of my own understanding. I am not responsible for people who have far less and have much to learn. To be fair there are things you need to learn, to learn the next thing be it magnetism or the standard model.

21 Jun 23 - 08:02 AM (#4175154)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I must say that really takes the biscuit. You cannot clarify things for other people and then say we have much to learn. With no hint of irony. I love it, Don. Keep digging :-)

21 Jun 23 - 08:04 AM (#4175155)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The arrogance of the ignorant knows no bounds, it seems.

21 Jun 23 - 10:16 AM (#4175164)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Mu.

21 Jun 23 - 11:09 AM (#4175168)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Micron? Greek letter? Musicians' Union? The hated Manchester United, aka Manure?

21 Jun 23 - 01:42 PM (#4175180)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you don't have the basics it is hard to skip immediately to advanced. that's not arrogance but it is a hard fact.

I started with flat land. Issac Newton, Maxwell, Einstein, Dirac, Heisenberg, and then Roger Penrose. PBS Youtube has an excellent series on Cosmology. The biggest discovery will probably be how much we don't know.

21 Jun 23 - 02:16 PM (#4175183)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Between each big name are dozens or hundreds of other people with major contributions. Some of the contributions come from disciplined hard work for years and some may come from a sudden dream.

21 Jun 23 - 04:13 PM (#4175184)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Don. I already understand how much I don't know and as I get older I realise that there are more and more gaps in my knowledge. I do know what I am good at though and two of the things are figuring out solutions for high availability business and understanding what people want. I am very innovative yet practical in my approach to complex issues and people trust me. I made a good living because of this. I have other skills and virtues of course but modesty prevents me from blowing my own trumpet :-) I do understand people though and do know bullshit when I see it.

I am interested in theoretical physics only as a pastime. Much like music. I get pleasure out of both but I am too long in the tooth to start getting a degree in either. I genuinely thought that you may be able to put an interesting perspective on things. I was wrong. It is a waste of time asking you to explain anything as you do not have the interpersonal skills to do so online. You may know the subject in your own mind but without the ability to pass it on to anyone else it is mental masturbation. Not something we all want to watch you do.

22 Jun 23 - 06:05 AM (#4175218)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You deserve to blow your horn. People like me don't make a living selling ideas no matter how prolific they are. The examples on educational youtube seminars are your best bet. However emailing as many personal attacks as you and Steve have done here won't put you in good standing with the teachers.

22 Jun 23 - 06:37 AM (#4175221)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

eye candy from the Webb

22 Jun 23 - 06:54 AM (#4175223)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

Question for you Donuel .......... do you sing or play an instrument?

23 Jun 23 - 02:46 PM (#4175305)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am a classically trained cellist. Mudcat led to mandolin, tenor uke and autoharp. I can't do guitar picking but I have picked up some basic luthier skills.
Steve is an abusive bomb thrower possibly from being bullied.
The problem is he is not good at it. He ends up throwing gasoline on a pile of unlit matches. His words are more autobiographical than a single truth about me.

23 Jun 23 - 03:20 PM (#4175308)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I consider myself taught by 12,000 clients. People are not always rational when they are suffering. It is for this reason that I still have empathy for Steve.

23 Jun 23 - 03:47 PM (#4175309)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You certainly consider yourself an awful lot, that's for sure. By the way, I know some "classically-trained" musicians who have no musical soul whatsoever. It's not an achievement. It's what someone did to you.

24 Jun 23 - 08:30 AM (#4175361)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

By the way, I know some "classically-trained" musicians who have no musical soul whatsoever. It's not an achievement. It's what someone did to you.

I know some untrained 'musicians' who would have benefited from some guidance on the way. There has to be some underlying ability to make use of training in any discipline. Virtuoso musicians, Olympic athletes and international footballers all start off with a raw talent that is honed to perfection through the training and coaching that they receive.

I have to ask, Steve, would you have made the same comment if you were responding to anyone else but Donuel?

DC

24 Jun 23 - 08:41 AM (#4175362)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes I would, and it's an opinion I've arrived at several times when classically-trained musicians, full of enthusiasm, don't "get it" when they try to play in folk music sessions. They have the notes, the scales, the timing and the accuracy but they often don't have the soul.

24 Jun 23 - 12:24 PM (#4175378)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

They may capture r hearts and r minds but never r sou....

24 Jun 23 - 12:36 PM (#4175382)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

The ad hominem attacks can stop or the thread can close. Two easy to understand options.

24 Jun 23 - 12:37 PM (#4175383)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

....having captured their silver flutes, their thousand-quid timber recorders, their cellos (mind you, she didn't half look good with it...)

Still, I'd rather have any of them than the bloody spoons/bones/dead goat brigade.

Ps. You may have a point, Doug, but many a non-classical musician that never had training of any sort has reached the heights.

24 Jun 23 - 01:15 PM (#4175387)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Just close it, Stilly. It will never get any better :-(

24 Jun 23 - 01:32 PM (#4175390)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

Keeping it simple - the spammers who regularly put their crap in music threads above the line are usually deleted quickly. The thread for June songs is being hit hard by the CBD peddlers with VPN so the IP can't be blocked. They either use really stupid AI or are not conversant English speakers with skills regarding translation software. This is the most recent post I just deleted:
I tried CBD part after the in front period and I'm amazed on how devil-may-care and calm I feel. The sip was attractive, http://xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/products/broad-xxxxxxxx-cbd-oil and the effect was clear after to 30 minutes. I'm stimulated to take up using these gummies and traverse other CBD products. Immensely recommend!

The subject line was changed from "Any June Songs?" to "I conducive to the most slice maintain inaccurate" (I mangled the url so it isn't pasteable.)

24 Jun 23 - 01:35 PM (#4175392)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Mangled English outsources first-level triaging for gullibility to the victims. But I've said that before.

24 Jun 23 - 02:37 PM (#4175397)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are ankle biters, internet trolls , giant trolls and apparently Uber mega trolls. Throw in some AI and we will have a proper mess.

24 Jun 23 - 04:42 PM (#4175402)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

I doubt AI is involved: that's just the latest go-to explanation. NI (Natural Incompetence) is cheaper.

25 Jun 23 - 07:51 AM (#4175433)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can call you Betty and Betty, when you call me, you can call me AI...

25 Jun 23 - 11:41 AM (#4175449)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Will the USA be a nation for all as it was first founded?
It is up to the way hate will be embraced or disgraced in society and media.

25 Jun 23 - 01:10 PM (#4175461)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Snippet from a book review I just read

"'Busy?' Dave asked.
Death let out a long weary sigh.
'I'm always busy.'
'How do you find the time to do it all?'
'Time is relative. In fact, he's my cousin. Who owes me money.'
'Time travel?'
'It's not time travel as such. It's more that I exist simultaneously at all points in time. Or something. I wasn't really paying attention. Quantum physics was put together on a Friday afternoon. That's why humanity will never figure it out. Some of the bits are the wrong way round.'"

Makes more sense than a lot of the stuff on here :-)

25 Jun 23 - 03:30 PM (#4175472)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Light is particle and wave
Our histories written large upon the page
The star in middle age
The love that fades to black
Once revealed, won't be taken back
Light nothing can escape
The ignorance we once forgave
In the future if we don't decide to change
On the surface it is saved
But it slows to shine upon your face
We owe everything
Everything
Everything
To this rainbow of suffering
Light is particle and wave
Reflections of this place
Refractions of our grace
It reveals what we won't dare
And it's slow so I can hold you dear
For a few orbits around a star.

25 Jun 23 - 03:53 PM (#4175474)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This is the thread for reductionism and other people's work.

26 Jun 23 - 05:39 AM (#4175521)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

particle and wave is a song by Rossane Cash who knows she doesn't know how quantum mechanics work.

I expect mechanics work by the hour.

26 Jun 23 - 09:07 AM (#4175534)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: robomatic

Heard this over the air on NPR:

"They're made out of meat"

Turns out it's from Omni magazine in 1991.

Fun times

26 Jun 23 - 11:11 AM (#4175546)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

I may have read this when it first came out. It reminds me of a couple of short stories I read in Playboy years ago, a science fiction style with interesting conjecture about life on other planets.

26 Jun 23 - 11:34 AM (#4175552)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I used to get Omni. Forgot all about it so thanks for the reminder :-)

26 Jun 23 - 08:55 PM (#4175596)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

"There are only two possibilities. We are the only life in the universe, or we are not. Either possibility is terrifying."
Asimov.

27 Jun 23 - 04:28 AM (#4175605)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Another possibility: I am the only life in the universe. You and all the rest are a figment of my imagination.

DC

27 Jun 23 - 04:44 AM (#4175606)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Another possibility: Asimov was scaremongering.

27 Jun 23 - 06:32 AM (#4175615)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's fake news...

27 Jun 23 - 07:16 AM (#4175619)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Bob Guccione's Omni was almost like a Playboy magazine for the UFO crowd.
i expected centerfolds of aliens and craft.

27 Jun 23 - 05:19 PM (#4175680)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

For the first time we can see beyond the observable universe.

beyond 13.5 billion years ago

27 Jun 23 - 06:01 PM (#4175683)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home

If we can see it then it's observable.

27 Jun 23 - 06:22 PM (#4175685)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Webb telescope did this sooner than we hoped, but what was not observable, now is.
As I said before these 6 giant galaxies might be black holes with accretion disks.

27 Jun 23 - 07:03 PM (#4175691)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

earliest known galaxies or SMBH

27 Jun 23 - 07:07 PM (#4175692)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Manitas_at_home

So we can see the observable universe but not beyond it? Yes or no. It that simple.

27 Jun 23 - 07:26 PM (#4175693)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: robomatic

Don'l:

The internet attributes that quote to Arthur C. Clarke (I was familiar with it but I thought it was Carl Sagan).

I think the subtext is that we are the only sentient/ intelligent form of life or we are not. The prospect of xeno microbes doesn't get me scared after the ages of Plague, Smallpox, Flu, and Covid. And I think the insect world is far more ferocious than ourselves. 'Intelligence' in humans is hard to define or prove. The existence of the chrysalis and the phenomenon of metamorphosis is to me a genuine miracle. Our only approach to it is to come up with the name for it.

27 Jun 23 - 09:17 PM (#4175699)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The new Webb observation is a game changer but I do not know how the game has changed. Has expansion stopped? Is the unobserved universe at its limit? Is the big crunch more likely now? Maybe next month I will get it.

Are there space virus? We can't even seem to identify the big things.

28 Jun 23 - 06:15 AM (#4175716)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Simply put, Webb sees fully formed galaxies or SMBH's 10 times the size of our Milky Way at the first glimpse of the visible universe and star formation. This is a total surprise to all our modeling. What it means presents a whole new set of questions.

My first guess was that SMBHs were present from the start of space-time everywhere all at once even as BH remnants of what came before the universal expansion/big bang.

28 Jun 23 - 07:31 PM (#4175752)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: robomatic

I agree that Webb is a game changer but we don't know how it has changed. That is one of the most fun things in a good way that humanity has been up to lately.

I think that without a whole lot of effort or deep thought, we can imagine that any outside E T could think of US as a potential space virus.

29 Jun 23 - 02:50 AM (#4175769)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

This is keeping it simple

BBC News - Scientists pick up shock waves from colliding galaxies

The links within it are equally good

29 Jun 23 - 07:59 AM (#4175782)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If Dave was close to a BH collision he would be stretched and shrunk by the gravity waves.

29 Jun 23 - 08:30 AM (#4175785)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Wouldn't everyone and everything?

29 Jun 23 - 08:56 AM (#4175787)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

I could do with a bit of stretching. Everything in my universe seems to be shrinking these days. My bank balance of course, but also my height. How grave is that?

29 Jun 23 - 08:58 AM (#4175788)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's grave when you get to minus six feet...

29 Jun 23 - 10:07 AM (#4175793)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

When we are billions of light years away from a BH collision the amount of stretching is only a portion of an atom's nucleus. Don't forget there is also a time compression wave along with the gravity wave. In time we will learn to read the universe via gravity waves just as we can with electromagnetic waves. Like Appolo, if we go too near the sun we could melt.
Some parts of the universe jiggle more than others.

29 Jun 23 - 10:49 AM (#4175797)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Like Appolo, if we go too near the sun we could melt.

I'll leave it for someone else to say "Icarus".

29 Jun 23 - 02:45 PM (#4175807)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

I'm just wondering who Appolo is.

29 Jun 23 - 03:15 PM (#4175816)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's the new app from OLO - the Obscure Literature Orgsnisation. It enables you to present utter bollocks as though it were factual :-D

29 Jun 23 - 05:13 PM (#4175823)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Nothing like checking your facts before you post, eh? Not for the first time, not by a long chalk!

29 Jun 23 - 05:23 PM (#4175824)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Apollo is one of the Olympian deities in classical Greek and Roman religion and Greek and Roman mythology. The most Greek of the gods, Apollo has been recognized as a god of archery, music and dance, truth and prophecy, healing and diseases, and the Sun.
His dad was a big cheese named ZEUS and his mom was Leto goddess of music. In a way I guess Apollo melted the wings of Icarus.
Which reminds me the FAA approves a $300,000 flying car.
https://insideevs.com/news/674368/alef-model-a-vtol-flying-car/

29 Jun 23 - 06:08 PM (#4175829)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Half of all bees in the US have died due to mite parasites and pesticides but since we love our pesticides a new hybrid of Russian bees have been found that are more resistant to mites and cold.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2001/mite-resistant-russian-bees-also-have-winter-hardinesse/

29 Jun 23 - 06:16 PM (#4175830)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

Oh I have read of Apollo, but my question was who is " Appolo"

29 Jun 23 - 09:22 PM (#4175838)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

APPOLO is the god of dyslexia. Proper names have never been my strength. I'm not suited to write prescriptions.

T.S. Eliot — We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

30 Jun 23 - 02:23 AM (#4175840)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Doesn't stop you checking stuff before you post. If only it was your spellings that were suspect.

Old McDonald was dyslexic
OIEIE

30 Jun 23 - 07:27 AM (#4175850)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Toilets is an anagram of T.S.Eliot.

30 Jun 23 - 07:37 AM (#4175851)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The anagram of Donuel is Lo Nude!

Maybe he is baring all?

30 Jun 23 - 07:41 AM (#4175852)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Dave the Gnome - Aged? Eh movent!

Steve Shaw - Have stews

30 Jun 23 - 08:09 AM (#4175855)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dormitory        Dirty Room
Evangelist        Evil's Agent
Desperation        A Rope Ends It

30 Jun 23 - 09:52 AM (#4175860)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Dave the Gnome = vehement dago

And here's me thinking you were just a carefree Lancashire lad...

30 Jun 23 - 10:07 AM (#4175861)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

:-D

30 Jun 23 - 06:58 PM (#4175892)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I suspect the usual suspects are not here for the science issues.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwsts-first-glimpses-of-early-galaxies-could-break-cosmology/

01 Jul 23 - 10:37 AM (#4175910)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The Scientific American link throws its baby out with the bathwater by being shallow and sensationalist (its usual modus operandi). I'll gird my loins and try again later, more manfully this time, to get past that ridiculous first paragraph.

01 Jul 23 - 04:36 PM (#4175934)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The observations are not what we expected, it is basically too soon to say what we are actually seeing.

01 Jul 23 - 05:52 PM (#4175939)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yebbut you wouldn't think that, reading some of the sensationalist hyperbole, would you?

05 Jul 23 - 07:37 PM (#4176163)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

observable universe

06 Jul 23 - 06:27 AM (#4176183)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Pretty colours.

07 Jul 23 - 06:46 AM (#4176275)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You got to ACK cent two eight the positive
E-lemon 8 the negative
latch onto the affirmative
and don't mess with mister in between.

08 Jul 23 - 11:02 AM (#4176369)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

My garden gnome

08 Jul 23 - 04:00 PM (#4176391)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

That's gno gnome!

11 Jul 23 - 07:59 AM (#4176592)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It's a stone feathered serpent. There is evidence in the fossil record for such a species for some bi pedal reptiles.

11 Jul 23 - 11:34 AM (#4176607)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More Shel Silverstien
than Al Einstein
More showman
than Shaman
More honest
than Thomas
More or less
than less is more
More resourceful
than forceful
Put them all together
and you get Donuel.

11 Jul 23 - 11:37 AM (#4176609)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You forgot to mention your giant testicles.

12 Jul 23 - 06:05 AM (#4176656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There is no spectacle like the evangelical Testicle Festival.
There are testicles in glass receptacles and pictures of harmful chemicals reaching out with tentacles to strangle what dangles.
I don't know if what the clowns were juggling were real but at least everyone had a ball.

12 Jul 23 - 03:42 PM (#4176685)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcC6FYyL4U

12 Jul 23 - 11:33 PM (#4176691)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

That is a clever video, and Monty Python adds the proper tone. :)

Those Olmec, Teotihuacan, Toltec, Maya, and Aztec cultures had a lot of material to draw from. We still don't have a complete understanding of how many of the charismatic megafauna overlapped with some of them to be added to the temple sculptures. Early Europeans saw dinosaur fossils and decided they must be dragons. So we can let the New World folks have some fanciful interpretations of what they saw in their universe.

13 Jul 23 - 07:19 AM (#4176706)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

20 miles away from our house a 150 million year old fossil of a T Rex ancestor was found this week.

The Philippine ethnic group Ayta Magbukon has the highest proportion of genes from our extinct relatives, the Denisovans, a new study led by Uppsala University shows. Their Denisovan share far exceeds that of ethnic groups in Papua New Guinea, who previously held the record.Aug 13, 2021
I believe Denosovians also mixed with early south Americans. I would guess they were better builders than Neanderthals in Europe.

14 Jul 23 - 02:32 PM (#4176856)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

pretty emerald comet

15 Jul 23 - 08:29 AM (#4176919)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you need to find new clues you have to find what is missing and why. While finding these facts is not proof, they are clues to asking better questions.
There is a binary star system Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2. From a planet around Zeta Reticuli 1 you would see the other star all day long as well as its planets. The stars are a billion years older than the sun.
The mirror on the Webb telescope would have to be a kilometer bigger to see detailed planetary features but it can analyze their atmospheres.
There are other reasons to explore those planets but this is the very thing that is missing or unmentioned. So I ask, is there a reason that information isn't found? Or is it too soon?

17 Jul 23 - 08:27 PM (#4177138)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Note the hexagonal structure. This shape appears in nature be it the currents around the north pole of Saturn or this star

19 Jul 23 - 12:42 PM (#4177245)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Mutual benefit and generosity are the foods of new species of life.
This is the reason I recommend psilocybin mushrooms. People will find new life, attitudes, and education. Since we will all die, most of us will join the mycelium world of life. This is the afterlife religion going back to the ancient Egyptians got wrong. Sealing yourself away from the mycelium world is not the way to go.

Another tip for the enlightened concerns the turkey tail mushroom that enhances the therapeutic value of other medicines like taxol. I used to collect turkey tails because they often seem to have small writing on their edges that look ancient.

20 Jul 23 - 11:27 AM (#4177251)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

This is why some of us get at you sometimes, Don. You are not a doctor. You do not know the effects that ANY foodstuff, medicinal product or hallucogen will have on anyone on here so why would you recommend anything to anyone? At most you should describe the effects that such things have on you personally and, even then, list the possible side effects to other people. What would you do if, worse case scenario, someone died after following your recommendations? More likely what if someone had a severe allergic reaction or psychotic episode after taking such stuff? Just think about the damage you may cause before you post your recommendations.

20 Jul 23 - 11:46 AM (#4177254)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The nature of reality includes quantum non-locality which is outside space and time. This is the reality of quantum entanglement and spooky action at a distance.
Einstein couldn't accept a reality outside the parameters of space and time. Now we have to realize the reality of non-locality. HOW DOES ENTAGLEMENT ALLOW COMMUNICATION INSTANTLY WITHOUT THE SPEED LIMIT OF LIGHT?... It does it because there is no signal that travels a distance. To be outside of space and time means we must think outside of sophistry, philosophy and rationalism. Outside of space and time there is instant connection that is not a signal and goes no distance. For now I will this feature a 'feeling'. There are people who can not do this. They are condemned to ignore the reality of quantum nonlocality.

I used to envision a dimension that had adjacent access to any point in space. But nonlocality is really OUTSIDE space and time. My dimension idea was bogus.
I can accept a concept unrelated to space and time. My earliest poetry included the phrase 'a place outside of space and time'...so maybe that's why it comes as innate understanding much like experiencing timelessness. Accepting nonlocality as real - opens up the realm of collective unconscious, Gaia, consciousness of the universe, and spirituality.
Our brain uses non-locality, as near-death experiences demonstrate these impossible abilities. Mind over matter and placebo concepts are material explanations and sidetrack our true nonlocality experience. Artificial Intelligence is totally materialistic than the feelings of nonlocality and will always be a second-class consciousness.
Material science and ego divide us while nonlocality includes us with everything.

20 Jul 23 - 12:18 PM (#4177258)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

"I love you in a place,
Where there's no space or time"- Leon Russell
At least you steal from the good ones.

20 Jul 23 - 12:19 PM (#4177260)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Mind over matter ...

If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.

DC

20 Jul 23 - 12:26 PM (#4177261)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If I was only 13 I wonder who was first. Besides stealing does not apply to the collective unconscious.

Some say we can not even speak about quantum non-locality.
I say we can but although real, it sounds ridiculous.

20 Jul 23 - 12:28 PM (#4177262)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Somebody's messiah complex is surfacing again.

20 Jul 23 - 01:12 PM (#4177273)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speaking of messiah, my biggest idea is that the inflation theory of the early universe is totally made up and is wrong. My idea is that the density of the early universe was like that of a black hole in which not even light can escape. If I am right that means that an unimaginably long time existed before light could escape and reveal the earliest galaxies would appear very old as the Webb telescope reveals.

20 Jul 23 - 01:19 PM (#4177279)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Not only that, Dave, he is recommending something that is illegal at least in some countries. The actual magic mushrooms themselves contain highly variable amounts of the substances that he's talking about. The clinical trials involving psilocybin do not involve feeding people with actual mushrooms. Not for the first time, he's coming out with a highly irresponsible recommendation.

20 Jul 23 - 01:26 PM (#4177280)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Once again my take on the nonsense of inflation was written here in my cosmological rants almost ten years ago.

Meanwhile, almost a billion dollars was wasted trying to prove inflation existed. The Antarctic Observatory failed to prove inflation ever happened.

btw I have seen the spiral arms of an entire galaxy take a hexagonal shape. They are rare but remarkable. I have no idea what causes this phenomenon.

20 Jul 23 - 02:11 PM (#4177287)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

And this is keeping things simple because...

20 Jul 23 - 02:29 PM (#4177288)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Keeping it simple, he should have just ended that sentence after "I have no idea." Further qualification unnecessary. It must be the bloody mushrooms.

21 Jul 23 - 07:33 AM (#4177343)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The unhappiest people do not learn or experience for themselves but worst of all want to discourage others from learning or experiencing.
I do recall the flavor of fresh Amazon Cubensis from 35 years ago. Not great but not nauseating. A great recipe with fresh garlic and barbecue sauce sounds good.

21 Jul 23 - 09:11 AM (#4177347)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Tony Bennet was a master at every age.

22 Jul 23 - 11:03 AM (#4177436)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The word for energy in Icelandic is Orca.

22 Jul 23 - 06:17 PM (#4177464)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Chat GBT responses only...

24 Jul 23 - 07:32 PM (#4177590)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

For my take that there is no inflation theory in reality the UNIVERSE WILL HAVE TO BE OLDER. How much older is a problem. At what density would the mass of the Universe have to be for how long before light could escape? If mass can not be created or destroyed the problem is easier than if matter were being created at the same time.
the Universe could be twice as old as we believed.

30 years ago we thought the Universe was 20 billion years old. With microwave background radiation, we made it 13.8 billion. Now the Webb shows the earliest galaxy as well formed as the Milky Way which is 13.6 billion years old. My bet is on 28 billion years.

26 Jul 23 - 11:12 AM (#4177694)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Of course, there are people who believe half of what I am saying is possible. https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/astrophysics/universe-27-billion-years-old/#:~:text=By%20Evrim%20Yazgin,Bang%2013.8%20billion%2

26 Jul 23 - 12:06 PM (#4177701)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

WHY KEEP IT SIMPLE?

Genius ideas usually start with a very simple perspective.
Relative time by Einstien started by picturing a clock face from a beam of light racing away from the clock. Gravity insights began by the mind experiment of an accelerating elevator.

Occam's Razor is a good indicator of keeping it simple.
Complexities will follow but beginnings are best kept simple.

27 Jul 23 - 10:49 AM (#4177758)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The last third of this Edward R Murrow interview is excellent

27 Jul 23 - 02:32 PM (#4177773)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Yes Donuel. Keeping it simple is all about making things understandable to anyone. So far, on this thread, no one is any wiser about your theories. Sorry but, as I said before, you are unable to simplify your more esoteric ramblings. At least this threads keeps them away from the general public :-D

27 Jul 23 - 05:49 PM (#4177789)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

It would seem that is the effect of pyschotic drugs.

I've had the misfortune through my life to meet several people who used such substances. Frequently they have been formerly intelligent people who have become utter bores.

27 Jul 23 - 06:04 PM (#4177790)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

In an idle and whimsical moment I did a bit of adding up until I got bored. I found that, of the last 200 posts to this thread, 101 were by Donuel. To put it as kindly as possible, there isn't actually a thread in this thread, if you see what I mean. It's all a bit random and disconnected really.

28 Jul 23 - 07:18 AM (#4177825)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I did not expect understanding from the Titanic trio.
Nor do I expect them to understand Oppenheimer

28 Jul 23 - 08:16 AM (#4177832)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I did not expect understanding from the Titanic trio.

Well then Donuel. Keep it simple as the thread says. Or, more correctly, Keep It Simple Stupid. You know that there are at least 3 of us that have no idea what you are talking about. There are many more in the same boat and even more than that who do not care what you say or even read it. Does that not tell you that it must be you rather than everyone else? (Hint - refer to your post of 26 Jul 23 - 12:06 PM and use Ocham's Razor.) What is more likely? You have a communication problem or everyone else does. Think about it.

I fully understand that Oppenheimer is considered to be the father of the Atom Bomb. If he is one of your heroes then that says a lot. I will probably watch the film. Christopher Nolan is one of my favourite directors and anything with Cillian Murphy and Robert Downey Junior in must be worth a watch. Iron Man meets Peaky Blinders? :-D

28 Jul 23 - 09:01 AM (#4177834)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Geoff Wallis

Donuel wrote 'The word for energy in Icelandic is Orca.'

This is incorrect. The word for energy in Icelandic is orka.

English-Icelandic dictionary

The Icelandic word for the orca is háhyrningur.

28 Jul 23 - 09:25 AM (#4177836)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Hey, give the guy credit, he can misspell in at least two different languages.

28 Jul 23 - 12:11 PM (#4177843)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Offset your bad behavior and do something nice for someone today.
Oppy gave advice regarding people like the trio but they do not hear or care.

28 Jul 23 - 12:31 PM (#4177846)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://climeworks.com/blog-the-story-behind-our-orca-plant

28 Jul 23 - 12:36 PM (#4177848)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Do something nice yourself and post accurately, with care, and without half-truths.

28 Jul 23 - 12:46 PM (#4177850)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

“Orka” is the Icelandic word for energy

Inspired by the power and strength of orcas, the Icelandic word for energy is “orka.” This word is particularly significant in Iceland as renewable energy accounts for more than 99% of the total energy consumption on the island – to put that in detail, 73% of electricity in Iceland is supplied by hydroelectric power plants and 26.8% by geothermal energy. When we decided to set up our direct air capture and storage facility in Iceland, this was a key consideration as we were determined to use 100% renewable energy for our operations. By choosing the name Orca, we committed ourselves to removing more CO2 from the air than we produce and connected our facility to the country in which it’s located.

28 Jul 23 - 01:24 PM (#4177853)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Instead of just ordering people around, learn something yourself.

My DECADES old theory of the universe is that the early universe was so dense it behaved like a black hole and contained primordial black holes as well. As it expanded for 13 billion of years it thinned out enough for light to finally escape. NOTE: there is expansion but no inflation at FTL theory at work. The processes of the universe were able to function inside the early universe even though it was as if it were all inside a black hole.
We only see Time starting up 13.8 billion years ago because of the delay of mass holding back the escape of light until the universe had thinned out enough.
This theory works better than the 'tired light' theory.

28 Jul 23 - 01:40 PM (#4177855)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Geoff Wallis

Copied directly from this webpage without citation - Donuel's a plagiarist

28 Jul 23 - 01:44 PM (#4177856)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

One could google the 28 billion year old universe now that the Webb has sent us pictures of the earliest mature galaxies and SMBHs.
My simple but IMO better theory is more overlooked than Fritz Zwicky's theories. But time will tell.

28 Jul 23 - 01:51 PM (#4177857)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

We knew that, Geoff, but thanks anyway.

Don. "Oppy" probably couldn't give a shit for my views but, as a scientist, he would recognise that they are based in logic rather than fantasy. Yes, I know innovation needs imagination as well but, as I said before, your fantasies are beyond explanation.

Carry on digging by all means

28 Jul 23 - 02:17 PM (#4177860)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

With a Theory that has been validated and has shown good predictive and explanatory power, one can try and extrapolate everywhere. After all, often in science, the most we can do is to draw our best inferences about unknown instances based on a theory that works well in many known instances. And that is much better than making arbitrary claims or drawing no inference whatsoever like the Titanic trio who have only posted crap spam insults and scams.
Take the KISS challenge and try to find a single post from steve that is anything but denialism and lies.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor - PM
Date: 19 Mar 23 - 11:53 AM

You should put all your observations in one place for the benefit of the scientific community and all mankind.

-sarcastic yes but my posts are informative and are not flaming trollism. Average People can be anything they desire. Do not listen to detractors and status quo idiots. They are the disease virus of the world. Respect your own ideas because the example of the critical Titanic trio proves they have nothing to offer.

28 Jul 23 - 02:26 PM (#4177865)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

And respect the ideas of others rather than try to pass them off as your own without attribution.

28 Jul 23 - 02:32 PM (#4177866)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The quantum universe and the human brain have demonstrated that reality goes beyond logic and sophism. Somehow you missed that crumb.
Perhaps you should begin with Gaia studies. It takes time to get up to speed.
BANG- Dave the Gnome and all his spidey friends are struck by electricity. Miracles have happened. Today a 46,000 year old frozen Nemotode came back to life. I bet you could too even at your age.

28 Jul 23 - 02:40 PM (#4177867)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Quoting a source and link is not plagiarism. I suspect you do not know the meaning of the word. We stand on the shoulders of previous explorers. It's like saying Gillymore has plagiarized the English language.

28 Jul 23 - 03:44 PM (#4177876)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You could have made a better shot at plagiarising gillymor's moniker. After all, you are an expert.

28 Jul 23 - 04:34 PM (#4177882)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Who are ‘the Titanic trio’?

28 Jul 23 - 05:10 PM (#4177885)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Don's statement
Today a 46,000 year old frozen Nemotode came back to life.

The actual facts from Scentific American
In 2018 scientists announced they had discovered and revived two types of microscopic nematodes found in the Siberian permafrost, estimating they may have been 42,000 years old. Now these roundworms are the subject of more research, which posits that one of these nematode varieties represents a new species, dubbed Panagrolaimus kolymaensis for the Kolyma River where they were found. The new research, published on July 27 in the journal PLOS Genetics, also compares the Siberian worm’s survival mechanism with one found in another nematode species, Caenorhabditis elegans—a model organism used in laboratories around the world. The researchers further claim that the P. kolymaensis worms are actually 46,000 years old, based on their dating of plant matter found with these nematodes.

Need I say more?

28 Jul 23 - 05:21 PM (#4177889)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Hmmmmm!

But who are ‘the Titanic trio’?

28 Jul 23 - 05:28 PM (#4177890)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Careful what you believe about stuff in popular science mags such as Scientific American, Dave. Real science doesn't need that mag but that mag needs people to buy it, and it does it by getting all dramatic about cherrypicked issues. I don't watch Panorama for the same reason. :-)

28 Jul 23 - 05:54 PM (#4177895)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It's Dave, Raggytash and me, John. If you agree to join us (fee-free) we can call ourselves the Fab Four! Donuel hates us Brits, but the real Fab Four conquered his country and now the yanks love 'em. We could end up the same!

28 Jul 23 - 08:19 PM (#4177921)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Incidentally, immediately suspect any source (including Scientific American) that refers to Panagrolaimus kolymaensis as a "worm." It's unrelated to the annelids we refer to as worms and to call it a worm is highly misleading. It's a roundworm if you like, but "nematode" would be even better. Accurate communication is the watchword in science, and calling it (correctly) a roundworm as opposed to a worm (incorrectly) is hardly condescending or dumbing-down.

29 Jul 23 - 02:40 AM (#4177930)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Aaaahh! Not at all what I was thinking!
Thanks for the invitation Steve, which I feel compelled to decline - I prefer to follow my own frequent advice and ignore the troll…

29 Jul 23 - 03:27 AM (#4177932)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I don't fully believe anything in the Scientific Ametican, Steve, although it does, unlike Don, keep it simple :-). I was just pointing out that Don's statement differs from his favourite source. Seems that the Nemotode did not come 'back to life' yesterday but this stems from research going back to 2018. Not only that but they are unsure if the 'worms' were that old or if they were surface contaminates. He did the age old trick of spouting the headline without going into the detail. The results of the study were published on July the 27th though so I suppose he got one thing right!

29 Jul 23 - 04:21 AM (#4177934)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Sadly, Dave, like most other popular science mags it keeps things simplistic rather than simple. The nuts and bolts of scientific research are frequently a real slog, so the mags are obliged to cherrypick out the juicy bits of the juiciest stories that might grab headlines for them. There's no other way for them to sell copies.

29 Jul 23 - 04:22 AM (#4177935)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I just had a profound thought while eating my eggs. With wholemeal toast and real butter of course :-) The universe, the world, us, animals, plants and everything around us (including eggs) are marvellous things. I don't need to know how the egg got there to enjoy it any more than I need to know how the universe got there. Yes, shit happens but so does beauty. Knowing things can be good of course and scientific knowledge is far better than putting it all down to a mysterious bloke with a long beard in the sky. Science has given us great benefits but the misuse of it has also given us climate change, the depletion of earth's resources and, going back to Oppenheimer, nuclear weapons. It is almost like seeing the harm that religion has done mirrored in technology.

Don't get me wrong here. I believe that science and technology will eventually fix the things they got wrong. In the meantime I shall continue to enjoy the night sky, sunsets, flowers, people's company, animals, music and eggs :-) I enjoy learning and discovering but feel sorry for those who have to have answers before they can appreciate anything. To quote from my favourite poem

If you can dream and not make dreams your master
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim

29 Jul 23 - 07:04 AM (#4177953)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I'm with you there, especially on the eggs (I had mine scrambled this morning on a couple of slices of Morrisons ciabatta, with real butter of course). Science and technology are sometimes pursued by going down dangerous alleys, but in general the harm done comes when otherwise good science is exploited for political or capitalist gain. It's tempting to blame scientists for making advances that might lead to harm, but there's a conundrum in that somewhere...

29 Jul 23 - 08:16 AM (#4177959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

At least the subject of ethics and science is an important issue and not nonsense.
I find it sad that Scientific American was not even my source or that 'I hate Brits' is a typical outrageous Steve Shaw lie meant to incite hate. KISS is not about hate.
The person who wants to enforce conformity and rails against free thought is not a friend of society or science.
I suppose liking eggs is as simple as it gets.

The unsinkable Titanic went down by the head, broke its keel, and rusts in the dark.

29 Jul 23 - 08:19 AM (#4177960)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

orca or orka

29 Jul 23 - 08:48 AM (#4177963)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Let me help-

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 22 Jul 23 - 11:03 AM

The word for energy in Icelandic is Orca.

From the Climeworks article-

4. "Orka" is the Icelandic word for energy

29 Jul 23 - 09:08 AM (#4177965)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

The source is not important, Don. You said, quite clearly, "Today a 46,000 year old frozen Nemotode came back to life". A number of sources, including Scientific American, have proved this to be untrue in many ways including the fact that it did not happen yesterday and they cannot confirm that the Nemotodes were 46000 years old. If you insist on stating these things as true and they are not you must expect people to a) question you and b) disbelieve any future statements. There is nothing simple about giving people lies and half-truths. It clouds the issue.

29 Jul 23 - 10:15 AM (#4177975)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I think that by free thought, Dave, he actually means playing fast and loose with the truth.

29 Jul 23 - 05:39 PM (#4178010)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> I don't fully believe anything in the Scientific Ametican

Not even the polyominos?

29 Jul 23 - 06:48 PM (#4178015)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I used to play polyominos in the pub

29 Jul 23 - 07:17 PM (#4178018)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It's my instrument of choice, after the harmonica.

30 Jul 23 - 02:37 AM (#4178041)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I used to play euphemism in a brass band

31 Jul 23 - 07:58 AM (#4178120)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you really want to go there...

31 Jul 23 - 09:36 PM (#4178169)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Who really invented the atomic bomb?
H.G. Wells ?

01 Aug 23 - 05:38 AM (#4178186)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Nah, that's where they dredge up mercury from.

02 Aug 23 - 03:13 PM (#4178301)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Men are fountains, women are Wells.

02 Aug 23 - 04:11 PM (#4178305)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

misanthropic socialpaths in charge vs. you

02 Aug 23 - 07:30 PM (#4178324)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

The word the whacko in that trailer used was sociopath not "socialpath".

05 Aug 23 - 08:01 AM (#4178428)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have been picturing the early universe that expanded under the speed of light producing the great matter-antimatter annihilation, heavier elements, galaxies, and black hole formation - ALL within a region in which the mass of the universe prevented the escape of light until the LET THERE BE LIGHT moment after 13 billion years light could finally escape from a universe that was diffuse enough to release the light.

Inflation theory from 1980 is BOGUS. The tired light theory is BOGUS.

This twice as old theory does not rely on breaking the laws of light.

05 Aug 23 - 08:14 AM (#4178435)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There is a mathematical solution for the mass of the universe to contain light until it was large and thinned out enough to release the light. Number crunchers should be excited.

05 Aug 23 - 11:39 AM (#4178487)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Tired light has been a bust for decades. One Physics prof in one of my previous lives used "leaky photons" as a test for those approaching him with a Marvelous New Theory ....

06 Aug 23 - 05:17 PM (#4178566)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The twice as old theory (TAO) implies a universe that expanded yet contained massless particles at its outer boundary edge. The expansion would have been slower than it is today as it accelerates. The universe would have been pretty damn large by the time massless particles were set free. Space would be free to outpace light and matter until the grip of uber gravity was released. It is beyond our visible horizon now.

08 Aug 23 - 04:25 AM (#4178698)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

This is quite amazing

Zooming out of the universe

You don't even need mushrooms to enjoy it :-)

08 Aug 23 - 07:54 AM (#4178709)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Atta boy, thinking beyond yourself is a beginning.

08 Aug 23 - 08:16 AM (#4178712)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Patronising twat

08 Aug 23 - 10:36 AM (#4178719)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There is something rather amusing though, Dave, about being patronised by such an intellectual dwarf...

08 Aug 23 - 11:11 AM (#4178726)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I present a multitude of ideas unlike the one trick phonies.

08 Aug 23 - 11:34 AM (#4178730)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can present as many ideas as you, Don. The difference is I fully understand which ones are genuinely innovative and which ones are bollocks. When I asked you to simplify things I was really hoping that your ideas may be grounded in reality. I was obviously wrong.

08 Aug 23 - 12:01 PM (#4178732)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We differ in what is obvious.

What is unique about the early universe is that it behaved like an expanding black hole without a singularity. As a result heavy elements and galactic formations proceeded without destruction.

08 Aug 23 - 12:14 PM (#4178733)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

That sounds very plausible Don but your posts are littered with so much misinformation no one knows whether to believe you or not. Rather than fact check all your proclamations it is easier to assume that they are mainly bollocks.

09 Aug 23 - 06:14 AM (#4178794)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Just because speculation and misinformation are a near rhyme does not make them the same thing. At this point adult education is your best bet. Try it you might like it.

09 Aug 23 - 12:51 PM (#4178833)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

btw Common does not mean normal.

Steve commonly posts accusations he fantasizes.
That does not mean his odd behavior is normal.

09 Aug 23 - 01:13 PM (#4178838)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Keep digging.

09 Aug 23 - 01:18 PM (#4178839)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In a similar vein, outside of math 'average' is meaningless.
Short time alive but LONGTIME DEAD on average means you are almost
entirely dead all your life.
Meaningless.

09 Aug 23 - 01:27 PM (#4178844)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It's only meaningless to you because the nuance of the saying has completely eluded you.

09 Aug 23 - 01:47 PM (#4178846)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"At this point adult education is your best bet. Try it you might like it."

Another example of patronising nonsense.

Donuel, you know even less about me than you know about jokes. FWIW I have never stopped learning. Every day is a fresh opportunity to gain insight into something new and my only total failure has been trying to understand your esoteric ramblings. I used to blame myself for that but I have now learned that not everyone is capable of explaining what they are talking about. That was a steep learning curve but it has taught me a lot.

Most times my learning is self paced and very informal but only a few days ago I completed a course on something entirely new to me and it was of great benefit. Most times my daily dose of new knowledge is filed under "irrelevant" but occasionally something stands out as important enough to remember and useful enough to delve deeper. You brand of cod-science is now firmly in the waste basket

10 Aug 23 - 06:25 AM (#4178912)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The cooling of the equatorial Pacific for decades is a real conundrum.
Everwhere else from 103F Siberia to 101F Florida ocean is getting warmer.

Yoy guys get what you give.

11 Aug 23 - 07:00 AM (#4178924)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Regarding my theory that the earliest annihilation of matter and anti matter created a form of matter like debris has more evidence since we have shown that photon collision can produce matter. That was thorized 80 years ago but now we have a photon collider that can do the trick. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/149087/scientists-discover-turn-light-into-matter/ It is not known if that matter is visible or invisible like dark matter.

Rejoice, speculation enthusiasts and free thinkers, I am undeterred by idiots and their toadies.
What is knowable does not come pre-assembled in a box on the porch. Nor are facts a discreet black and white certainty. It's good to think outside the box.

Current thought says the universe is 13.8 billion years old and 90 billion light years across. We have equations to estimate the mass of the universe. Only 3 solar masses can make a black hole. How much trillions of stars, non luminous matter plus dark matter and everything else over a gradual decrease in density by expansion will have black hole qualities, is the question. How long it takes to release the boundary of light is calculable. That includes microwave background radiation. Solving the equation without the magical thinking of Inflation theory is more simple to me.

11 Aug 23 - 08:34 AM (#4178927)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Yeah, who needs facts? They just get in the way.

11 Aug 23 - 09:15 AM (#4178928)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Everwhere else from 103F Siberia to 101F Florida ocean is getting warmer.

Yoy guys get what you give."

Well what we don't get from you is facts, sure enough.

11 Aug 23 - 10:28 AM (#4178931)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Those are the numbers.

"That's a fact Jack"
quote: Bill Murry

11 Aug 23 - 10:31 AM (#4178932)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Spelling correctly seems to be as inconsequential to you as facts are.
The man's name is Murray.

11 Aug 23 - 11:26 AM (#4178937)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Upi str sm sdd jp;r/

Those were typos. So is the simple deliberate code above.

11 Aug 23 - 03:35 PM (#4178959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you want to learn physics play with toys.
Put a raisin in lemonade.Dip a Q tip in alcohol and light it in a dark closet and watch it as you swirl it around in a circle. spin a raw egg and a hard boiled egg in its shell, stop each and watch the raw egg pick up its spin.
You will see physics at work and fundamental laws expressed.

We live in the area in between quantum mechanics which is fast and small and cosmology which is slow and big. Once you learn to ask the right questions physics will be fun and SIMPLE.

Look at the physics in our body, our civilization, and our planet.
Fundamental laws will be at play in all 3 systems. Something that surprises you or looks weird is the best place to start. Ask your questions and the answers may come to you like playing with toys.
All the patterns around you is physics. The more patterns you master the better you become at mastering your world, your vehicle and your body.

Not all of us see the fun in that but if you do take my words to heart.

11 Aug 23 - 04:57 PM (#4178968)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

Our universe is "9- billion years across"? "So it would take 25,000 years to get there if you traveled at the speed of light."

However, if you did reach it, wouldn't the universe expand right along with you? How would one know that one's original universe had ended?

11 Aug 23 - 10:48 PM (#4178998)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It's estimated to be 90 billion light years in diameter. That makes some of it beyond a visible horizon to us.

12 Aug 23 - 04:32 AM (#4179012)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Our universe is "9- billion years across"? "So it would take 25,000 years to get there if you traveled at the speed of light."

I would like the mathematics to this explained. To the observer on earth, it would take 9 billion years for light to travel 9 billion light years. To the traveller moving at 99% the speed of light you would need to use a factor of (I think) around 15% so, to them, it would be around 1.3 billion years.

My knowledge stops there as I don't know what the factor is for travelling at the actual speed of light! What is it? Simply that is :-)

12 Aug 23 - 05:44 AM (#4179015)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> I don't know what the factor is for travelling at the actual speed of
> light

You're multiplying by

sqrt(1 - v2/c2)

.... which is zero when v == c. Good luck getting there with nonzero mass and finite energy, as you're dividing your effective mass by that factor.

12 Aug 23 - 05:59 AM (#4179016)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks MaJoC. I thought that travelling at the actual speed of light would be instantaneous to the traveller and your explanation seems to confirm that. As you rightly point out though, the traveller could not have a non-zero mass so we could not achieve actual light speed. The comment I was questioning was about traveling 9 billion light yeas in 250000 years. That would entail a factor of around 0.003% of what we would see from Earth. I think! What percentage of the speed of light would need to be achieved to do that?

Discounting warp factor 10 of course:-D

12 Aug 23 - 10:08 AM (#4179025)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Warp five was decided by the Federation to be more environmentally friendly ;^P

I expected the question to be "How could the Universe expand to 90 Billion light years in only 13.8 Billion years?"

12 Aug 23 - 10:34 AM (#4179027)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> I expected the question to be "How could the Universe expand to
> 90 Billion light years in only 13.8 Billion years?"

*Space itself* expands, and drags the Universe with it. There's no light-speed constraint on how fast space can expand, only on how much of it we can see afterwards.

12 Aug 23 - 01:32 PM (#4179040)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm just an amateur but you seem like a pro.

12 Aug 23 - 03:45 PM (#4179050)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie

A THOUGHT can travel faster than the speed of light- is this where the future lies?

12 Aug 23 - 05:24 PM (#4179060)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

NEURONAL and axion transmission is roughly 270 kph but can be up to 470 kph.It depends on age, myelination and axion thickness.
Eyes are fast at about 15 microseconds travel time.

https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/note/ THIS CONVERTER can help chose notes that can pin point notes like 150 hz (D3) that makes human brains produce the most dopamine. A cello can produce a great D3.

12 Aug 23 - 05:27 PM (#4179062)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The only instant communication -of sorts- that I know of is QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT SWITCHING.

12 Aug 23 - 05:34 PM (#4179063)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are quantum structures in our brain like micro tubules and the curious extensive limbic system that seems to be full of 'nothing'.

15 Aug 23 - 02:33 PM (#4179261)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomers-grapple-with-jwsts-discovery-of-early-galaxies1/
I never thought of these explanations.

18 Aug 23 - 05:26 PM (#4179398)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In conclusion, the Universe is not a sterile inanimate machine as proposed by materialists and reductionists. This will be a lengthy post that will deal with science and the opposing camps of thought.
bbl

19 Aug 23 - 09:09 AM (#4179468)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Mysteries of the Universe from our perspective is consciousness and the Universe itself. Since we are made from the Universe and are conscious, it is as though we are a tiny fractal of the larger fractal of reality. Some other ideas that may be beyond our understanding is what are the physics inside a black hole or what happens to physics that is smaller than a Plank length. Reality to some is too weird for humans to understand. Emmanuel Kant said we Can't understand because we are bound by causality and our unique evolutionary adaptation. I think we can still do the best we can when we include new ways of thinking and happy accidents. Of course, correlation is seldom an explanation and status quo thinking does not reveal new truths. Those without curiosity are dead to the future.

Our Universe is composed of various waves of energy interacting with fields. A wave is a process that expresses itself over time and space.
The old idea that atoms are like inanimate billiard balls is an outmoded fiction. The sterile notions of a mechanized universe is going out of favor. Instead, we are looking at pan-psychism in the same way Plato would. Albert Einstein did not like the idea of god playing dice with the universe but life itself encounters randomness.

Mending/removing fences between philosophy, religion and science is a worthwhile pursuit.

19 Aug 23 - 12:02 PM (#4179487)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Currently the joke thread and the KISS thread have exactly the same number of posts! I'm sure Don will find some significance

19 Aug 23 - 12:44 PM (#4179497)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Just keeping up with the Jokes's

19 Aug 23 - 01:08 PM (#4179501)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

I understood that the full remark was "God does not throw dice where we cannot see them", and that Einstein was at the time trying to refute the idea of "hidden variables" as an explanation of quantum randomness, but I may have been misinformed. This all rates its own section in the Wikipedia page on hidden-variable theory.

19 Aug 23 - 04:56 PM (#4179529)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

While yours is a specific true remark, I think the remark was simply about his doubt regarding quantum mechanics.
Now we actually see entanglement charge changes. ALL possible paths are fully accepted quantum actions. Random crap happens.

Simplification has its risks and benefits.

19 Aug 23 - 05:29 PM (#4179532)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

...I mean spin...

21 Aug 23 - 04:40 PM (#4179588)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I have saved the most controversial for last.
We have heard :Beware of the military industrial government complex.
The industry is fossil fuels for the last hundred years. Even our nuclear plants are just poisonous steam engines.
New technologies have been put on the black shelf since JP Morgan said
"If I can't put a meter on it, we can't use it."

21 Aug 23 - 04:42 PM (#4179589)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Many of the exsponged technologies are electromagnetic generators but a few rely upon the pervasive energy wave foundation of the quantum.

The fossil fuel petro dollar has duped the entire world while denying the damage and alternatives they have killed.

Alternatives have been around since 1902 and great advancements since the late 40's. The cold war era made those in charge so paranoid while at the same time so greedy that holding back progress for great profit became irresisable. We are seeing the earth wounding outcome of the great duping of the world for profit.

21 Aug 23 - 04:44 PM (#4179590)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There will be those who do not believe they were lied to or the extent that the industrial complex has gone to line their wallets by exploiting 100 year old technology. There is still hope for another 15 years but without the truth we will have gone over the cliff.

21 Aug 23 - 09:25 PM (#4179596)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This is the argument espoused by Dr. Steven Greer which is all well and good if only he could produce even one prototype of suppressed new technology and post it as open-source data for others to reproduce.

23 Aug 23 - 08:01 PM (#4179757)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We can no longer speak with any sort of knowledge or confidence as to how — or even whether — the universe itself began. By the very nature of inflation, it wipes out any information that came before the final few moments: where it ended and gave rise to our hot Big Bang. Inflation could have gone on for an eternity, it could have been preceded by some other nonsingular phase, or it could have been preceded by a phase that did emerge from a singularity. Until the day comes where we discover how to extract more information from the universe than presently seems possible, we have no choice but to face our ignorance. The Big Bang still happened a very long time ago, but it wasn’t the beginning we once supposed it to be.

23 Aug 23 - 08:07 PM (#4179760)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't know that, and you play fast and loose with the concept of "eternity." Bullshit, in other words. As ever.

24 Aug 23 - 07:07 AM (#4179793)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I would rather have a fast and loose mind than one like yours that stinks and offers nothing.

24 Aug 23 - 07:25 AM (#4179794)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Remember I have always thought inflation theory was bogus and is practically magical thinking.

24 Aug 23 - 08:34 AM (#4179797)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As I have said before the density of the early Universe held back light much like an immense black hole. That it did so for a finite eternity, I estimated about 14 billion years before the light was released based on Webb observations of an early Universe with heavy elements, black holes and organized galaxies.

24 Aug 23 - 08:52 AM (#4179799)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Finite eternity? Bwahahaha!

24 Aug 23 - 09:02 AM (#4179801)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

But who cares, none of us remember our own birthday or embryonic development.
It is more relevant to humans to unravel the energy production of UFOs and its benefits for Earth's energy needs.

24 Aug 23 - 09:10 AM (#4179803)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Most modern physicists believe that it is extremely unlikely for humanity to extract usable energy from zero-point energy. While scientists have been able to generate force using zero-point energy, there is yet to be a widely accepted method to generate more energy than is put into a system.


However, physicists have been wrong before.


By the way, Everything is finite but eternaties are a very long time.

24 Aug 23 - 09:20 AM (#4179805)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Eternity mean infinite, endless. It means "a very long time" only in casual, informal usage, as in "Gosh, I seem to have been waiting for this bus for an absolute eternity." Scientific expression avoids that kind of usage. See if you can also manage that.

24 Aug 23 - 09:27 AM (#4179809)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Inevitable phase shifts of a universe always go to a lower energy state due to entropy. The fate of a universe may be a cold dark place where even black holes have evaporated after an eternity, leaving only a quantum field of energy.. OR- It could be a BIG RIP where everything is reduced to a different lower energy state.

24 Aug 23 - 09:57 AM (#4179812)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Worthy of repetition

There is a societal erosion of trust in science, government, old knowledge, and new knowledge. The Sea of nature will devour solid rock at the interface of land and sea. Nature will endure while our opinions will turn to sand. Even the Sea WILL boil away.


What will be will be.

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother, what will I be
Will I be pretty? Will I be rich?
Here's what she said to me
Qué será, será
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Qué será, será
What will be, will be
When I grew up and fell in love
I asked my sweetheart what lies ahead?
Will we have rainbows day after day?
Here's what my sweetheart said
Qué será, será
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Qué será, será
What will be, will be
Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, what will I be
Will I be handsome? Will I be rich?
I tell them tenderly
Qué será, será
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Qué será, será
What will be, will be
Qué será, sera


goodbye Gorden Lightfoot
your songs were better

24 Aug 23 - 10:44 AM (#4179820)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

On one of my infrequent visits back into town, I'll have to check with a genuine physicist whether there's still a debate about the difference between predicted and measured zero-point energy. The last time I heard, it was around 120 orders of magnitude, which is even bigger than the gap between real life and Truth Social.

.... I'll step aside from this thread awhile. It's full of infrared herrings: all heat and no enlightenment.

24 Aug 23 - 02:37 PM (#4179849)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I bet there is that much magnitude of energy between our lab results and the mile-wide Phoenix lights craft.

26 Aug 23 - 12:45 PM (#4180012)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speculation about UFO energy sources has gone on since the 40s.
Bigalow Aerodynamics has claimed we have working prototypes of our own.

26 Aug 23 - 12:45 PM (#4189199)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speculation about UFO energy sources has gone on since the 40s.
Bigalow Aerodynamics has claimed we have working prototypes of our own.

26 Aug 23 - 01:18 PM (#4189200)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Avi LOEB will announce his findings regarding an interstellar object that crashed into Earth this coming week.

26 Aug 23 - 01:18 PM (#4180016)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Avi LOEB will announce his findings regarding an interstellar object that crashed into Earth this coming week.

26 Aug 23 - 01:30 PM (#4180018)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

We're all interstellar objects.

26 Aug 23 - 01:30 PM (#4189354)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

We're all interstellar objects.

26 Aug 23 - 02:01 PM (#4189201)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Believe it or not, we are from our Solar system, including meteors, comets, and asteroids. Interstellar objects are far more rare.

26 Aug 23 - 02:01 PM (#4180022)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Believe it or not, we are from our Solar system, including meteors, comets, and asteroids. Interstellar objects are far more rare.

26 Aug 23 - 02:06 PM (#4180023)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The heavy elements are from exploded distant stars.
You might have some on your finger.

26 Aug 23 - 02:06 PM (#4189202)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The heavy elements are from exploded distant stars.
You might have some on your finger.

26 Aug 23 - 03:33 PM (#4189355)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yeah. Discuss.

26 Aug 23 - 03:33 PM (#4180025)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yeah. Discuss.

26 Aug 23 - 06:42 PM (#4180033)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most common elements, like carbon and nitrogen, are created in the cores of most stars, fused from lighter elements like hydrogen and helium. Super Novas make the heaviest elements, like zinc, silver, tin, gold, mercury, lead and uranium. Iron, however, ends the production process and doesn't fuse into different elements.
element creation

26 Aug 23 - 06:42 PM (#4189203)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most common elements, like carbon and nitrogen, are created in the cores of most stars, fused from lighter elements like hydrogen and helium. Super Novas make the heaviest elements, like zinc, silver, tin, gold, mercury, lead and uranium. Iron, however, ends the production process and doesn't fuse into different elements.
element creation

27 Aug 23 - 09:09 AM (#4189204)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You failed the test. Iron is the last element that causes the star to collapse and initiate the production of the heaviest elements from the pressure of the final collapse which then explodes in a Nova.

27 Aug 23 - 09:09 AM (#4180073)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You failed the test. Iron is the last element that causes the star to collapse and initiate the production of the heaviest elements from the pressure of the final collapse which then explodes in a Nova.

27 Aug 23 - 09:25 AM (#4180075)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Interstellar is a vague term which simply means "among (or between if you must) the stars." If you mean "outside the heliopause" you need to say just that. I'm "inside" the heliopause (i.e., I'm under the influence of the sun-related things that stop influencing me when I go beyond it), but I'm not part of, or in or on, the sun, therefore I'm interstellar if I want to put it that way. It simply isn't a scientific term unless qualified. It's a nice word though, as are helicopter and mellifluous. Musk and Branson may be able to help you one day.

27 Aug 23 - 09:25 AM (#4189356)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Interstellar is a vague term which simply means "among (or between if you must) the stars." If you mean "outside the heliopause" you need to say just that. I'm "inside" the heliopause (i.e., I'm under the influence of the sun-related things that stop influencing me when I go beyond it), but I'm not part of, or in or on, the sun, therefore I'm interstellar if I want to put it that way. It simply isn't a scientific term unless qualified. It's a nice word though, as are helicopter and mellifluous. Musk and Branson may be able to help you one day.

27 Aug 23 - 06:34 PM (#4189205)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

When Avi Loeb announces his interstellar debris find you will be incensed at the further allusions.

Steve is linear in the sense he thinks in terms of wrong or right, black or white, win or lose, genius or idiot.

A more accurate distinction is that we have entirely different consciousnesses.

27 Aug 23 - 06:34 PM (#4180095)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

When Avi Loeb announces his interstellar debris find you will be incensed at the further allusions.

Steve is linear in the sense he thinks in terms of wrong or right, black or white, win or lose, genius or idiot.

A more accurate distinction is that we have entirely different consciousnesses.

27 Aug 23 - 07:53 PM (#4180097)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You can't do anything accurately. Now the thing is that you are attempting (usually unsuccessfully) to address matters of science in this thread. It seems never to have occurred to you that, in any discussion of a scientific matter, it's vitally important to use scientifically accurate language which will communicate ideas clearly and without ambiguity. Time and time again you show that you are incapable of doing that. Sad, really.

27 Aug 23 - 07:53 PM (#4189357)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You can't do anything accurately. Now the thing is that you are attempting (usually unsuccessfully) to address matters of science in this thread. It seems never to have occurred to you that, in any discussion of a scientific matter, it's vitally important to use scientifically accurate language which will communicate ideas clearly and without ambiguity. Time and time again you show that you are incapable of doing that. Sad, really.

28 Aug 23 - 04:28 AM (#4189158)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's the deviation from the thread title that gets me. The opening post was addressed to me specifically and promised to simplify his arcane ramblings. It has failed to achieve that object quite spectacularly. It has become a platform for said ramblings and not only explains nothing but tries to imply that I am stupid because I do not understand the workings of his weird mind.

Still, it does achieve a couple of things. Firstly, it reassures me that it is not just me that has no idea what he is on about half the time and, secondly, it keeps all the shite he spouts in one place :-)

28 Aug 23 - 04:28 AM (#4180105)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's the deviation from the thread title that gets me. The opening post was addressed to me specifically and promised to simplify his arcane ramblings. It has failed to achieve that object quite spectacularly. It has become a platform for said ramblings and not only explains nothing but tries to imply that I am stupid because I do not understand the workings of his weird mind.

Still, it does achieve a couple of things. Firstly, it reassures me that it is not just me that has no idea what he is on about half the time and, secondly, it keeps all the shite he spouts in one place :-)

28 Aug 23 - 07:11 AM (#4180107)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Keeping things simple is an effort to dumb things down for understanding.
Dave getting your physics from movies like the Flash will be more entertaining for you.

28 Aug 23 - 07:11 AM (#4189206)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Keeping things simple is an effort to dumb things down for understanding.
Dave getting your physics from movies like the Flash will be more entertaining for you.

28 Aug 23 - 07:58 AM (#4189159)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

See what I mean?

Don, I understand physics and many other things at many levels. What I don't understand is your opinion on science. The 900+ posts in this thread seem to indicate that you are incapable of explaining what you think and why you come to those conclusions. Instead of rational explanation you either just cut and paste someone else's theories or resort to personal abuse. This became obvious after the first couple of hundred posts. The more you do it, the more you show yourself up to be a self aggrandising phoney.

28 Aug 23 - 07:58 AM (#4180111)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

See what I mean?

Don, I understand physics and many other things at many levels. What I don't understand is your opinion on science. The 900+ posts in this thread seem to indicate that you are incapable of explaining what you think and why you come to those conclusions. Instead of rational explanation you either just cut and paste someone else's theories or resort to personal abuse. This became obvious after the first couple of hundred posts. The more you do it, the more you show yourself up to be a self aggrandising phoney.

28 Aug 23 - 08:16 AM (#4180112)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs. Amos had his science thread and was piqued that I did not source everything. A new idea is hard to footnote. Having just two or three lucky speculations is not a lot but it shows anyone can successfully think. To be fair it's best to have started as a child be it golf, music, or science.

I started with the standard model and the symmetry theory which are reductionist and materialistic models of reality. I am up to the description of pan-psychic theories which include the nature of consciousness. Energy generation alternatives are a benefit to us all.
There may be something beyond fusion that is on our horizon.
I know a couple guys who won't find them.

28 Aug 23 - 08:16 AM (#4189207)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs. Amos had his science thread and was piqued that I did not source everything. A new idea is hard to footnote. Having just two or three lucky speculations is not a lot but it shows anyone can successfully think. To be fair it's best to have started as a child be it golf, music, or science.

I started with the standard model and the symmetry theory which are reductionist and materialistic models of reality. I am up to the description of pan-psychic theories which include the nature of consciousness. Energy generation alternatives are a benefit to us all.
There may be something beyond fusion that is on our horizon.
I know a couple guys who won't find them.

28 Aug 23 - 08:52 AM (#4189208)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Free thought is a deviation from a structured lining up of dominos. New ideas and invention has never been a linear process, read Connections.
I understand maybe 3 grand ideas of Einstein and how he simply arrived at those new notions. Even he did not see all the ramifications of his ideas nor did he do all the math to prove them.

If you are looking for a simple explanation of everything you too will be as disappointed as Dave. I have NEVER called anyone stupid although it is helpful to answer stupid questions because it takes prior knowledge to learn something new. The trolling of this thread has not helped the spirit of this thread or its potential but it has not defeated curiosity. The trolling is as natural as quantum variation.

Science be it accurate, false or general has affected civilization be it Evolution, Eugenics, or Relativity. It is critical to your present and future.

28 Aug 23 - 08:52 AM (#4180116)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Free thought is a deviation from a structured lining up of dominos. New ideas and invention has never been a linear process, read Connections.
I understand maybe 3 grand ideas of Einstein and how he simply arrived at those new notions. Even he did not see all the ramifications of his ideas nor did he do all the math to prove them.

If you are looking for a simple explanation of everything you too will be as disappointed as Dave. I have NEVER called anyone stupid although it is helpful to answer stupid questions because it takes prior knowledge to learn something new. The trolling of this thread has not helped the spirit of this thread or its potential but it has not defeated curiosity. The trolling is as natural as quantum variation.

Science be it accurate, false or general has affected civilization be it Evolution, Eugenics, or Relativity. It is critical to your present and future.

28 Aug 23 - 09:00 AM (#4180118)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Believe it or not, Don, that is a bit better. It shows us a little of how you think. We may disagree but at least you have tried to to explain that your theories started in amateur science and have gone on to pan-psychic theories, which are not science at all. What you still fail to do is acknowledge that many of your past proclamations are not science either but more related to the philosophy of conciousness. And, again, at least you say that something MAY be on the horizon. Theories are fine but not facts. The last personal attack does let you down somewhat though.

28 Aug 23 - 09:00 AM (#4189160)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Believe it or not, Don, that is a bit better. It shows us a little of how you think. We may disagree but at least you have tried to to explain that your theories started in amateur science and have gone on to pan-psychic theories, which are not science at all. What you still fail to do is acknowledge that many of your past proclamations are not science either but more related to the philosophy of conciousness. And, again, at least you say that something MAY be on the horizon. Theories are fine but not facts. The last personal attack does let you down somewhat though.

28 Aug 23 - 09:10 AM (#4189209)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Correction: "The trolling of this thread 'HAS' helped the spirit of this thread and its potential"

The pushback has required that I either make ideas more concise or relatable. We ALL have a measure of knowledge and ignorance. Get used to it.

28 Aug 23 - 09:10 AM (#4180119)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Correction: "The trolling of this thread 'HAS' helped the spirit of this thread and its potential"

The pushback has required that I either make ideas more concise or relatable. We ALL have a measure of knowledge and ignorance. Get used to it.

28 Aug 23 - 09:24 AM (#4180121)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy. By the time of Isaac Newton, there was a philosophy of physics. Panpsychism is a philosophy of science and is gaining more favor in the last decade.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but despite all our human discoveries and fact-finding, it is nearly zero compared to the unknown and potentially unknowable. we need everyone's input and imagination.
The accidental discoveries are numerous.

28 Aug 23 - 09:24 AM (#4189210)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy. By the time of Isaac Newton, there was a philosophy of physics. Panpsychism is a philosophy of science and is gaining more favor in the last decade.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but despite all our human discoveries and fact-finding, it is nearly zero compared to the unknown and potentially unknowable. we need everyone's input and imagination.
The accidental discoveries are numerous.

28 Aug 23 - 09:36 AM (#4189358)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs."

The unjustified outburst of ego there is simply staggering.

28 Aug 23 - 09:36 AM (#4180122)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs."

The unjustified outburst of ego there is simply staggering.

28 Aug 23 - 09:39 AM (#4180125)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I don't like when people say science is the new religion. While ancient religion does have some metaphorical truths that are shared with science, much of religion is nonsense or the obvious.

Nonintuitive conclusions in science may look like nonsense but there can be much more to it. Nonsense has the potential to lead to more concrete ideas but has a low success rate.

28 Aug 23 - 09:39 AM (#4189211)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I don't like when people say science is the new religion. While ancient religion does have some metaphorical truths that are shared with science, much of religion is nonsense or the obvious.

Nonintuitive conclusions in science may look like nonsense but there can be much more to it. Nonsense has the potential to lead to more concrete ideas but has a low success rate.

28 Aug 23 - 10:10 AM (#4189212)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You may have been led to believe that you are merely average.
I don't care who you are but you have the potential to be PHENOMENAL,
see something phenomenal or encounter something/someone phenomenal.
Its better to look for yourself than follow a crowd.
The Universe does play dice and sometimes gives a great notion.

28 Aug 23 - 10:10 AM (#4180128)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You may have been led to believe that you are merely average.
I don't care who you are but you have the potential to be PHENOMENAL,
see something phenomenal or encounter something/someone phenomenal.
Its better to look for yourself than follow a crowd.
The Universe does play dice and sometimes gives a great notion.

28 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM (#4180129)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy

And in between religion stepped in and screwed the lot. Only science is, well, scientific. A theory may start as imagination but it is hard work, fact checking, testing and peer reviews that make it more realistic. Explaining theories as being either philosophical or the work of god is the lazy persons way out.

28 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM (#4189161)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy

And in between religion stepped in and screwed the lot. Only science is, well, scientific. A theory may start as imagination but it is hard work, fact checking, testing and peer reviews that make it more realistic. Explaining theories as being either philosophical or the work of god is the lazy persons way out.

28 Aug 23 - 10:24 AM (#4189213)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS simple QUESTIONS
From: Donuel

Something anyone can do is join a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY !
answers are optional and not required.

For example why do many diverse plants have the specific aroma or taste of Lemon, Pineapple, or mint?

28 Aug 23 - 10:24 AM (#4180131)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS simple QUESTIONS
From: Donuel

Something anyone can do is join a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY !
answers are optional and not required.

For example why do many diverse plants have the specific aroma or taste of Lemon, Pineapple, or mint?

28 Aug 23 - 10:30 AM (#4180132)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Why do Lemon and Pineapple deserve capital letters at the front but mint does not? :-D

I have no idea what a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY is. I tried Googling it. Bad mistake...

28 Aug 23 - 10:30 AM (#4189162)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Why do Lemon and Pineapple deserve capital letters at the front but mint does not? :-D

I have no idea what a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY is. I tried Googling it. Bad mistake...

28 Aug 23 - 11:35 AM (#4189214)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What animal has more vertebrae than a giraffe?
A Felix Catus.

28 Aug 23 - 11:35 AM (#4180138)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What animal has more vertebrae than a giraffe?
A Felix Catus.

28 Aug 23 - 11:43 AM (#4180142)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If whales have 37 to 81 vertebrae how many do we have?

28 Aug 23 - 11:43 AM (#4189215)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If whales have 37 to 81 vertebrae how many do we have?

28 Aug 23 - 12:17 PM (#4180145)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion

Humans normally have 33 vertebrae, Donuel.

And the Latin name for the domestic cat is Felis catus -- note both spelling and capitalization. Normal people go with "house cat".

28 Aug 23 - 12:17 PM (#4189144)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion

Humans normally have 33 vertebrae, Donuel.

And the Latin name for the domestic cat is Felis catus -- note both spelling and capitalization. Normal people go with "house cat".

28 Aug 23 - 05:01 PM (#4180171)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I find cats have an amazing quality of empathy. They have adapted to be part of the human family with their protection of our grains against rodents.

28 Aug 23 - 05:01 PM (#4189216)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I find cats have an amazing quality of empathy. They have adapted to be part of the human family with their protection of our grains against rodents.

28 Aug 23 - 06:02 PM (#4189217)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More trivia; Turkey has the most sympathetic cat protection laws for their kitties in the world.
10,000 years ago immigrants to Cyprus brought their cats with them by boat.
Egypt had an unfortunate fad of mummifying their cats along with family members.
Cats have adapted differently in different countries to blend with different cultures.

28 Aug 23 - 06:02 PM (#4180181)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More trivia; Turkey has the most sympathetic cat protection laws for their kitties in the world.
10,000 years ago immigrants to Cyprus brought their cats with them by boat.
Egypt had an unfortunate fad of mummifying their cats along with family members.
Cats have adapted differently in different countries to blend with different cultures.

29 Aug 23 - 01:31 PM (#4180250)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/08/29/metallic-spheres-interstellar-origin-avi-loeb-finds/70699783007/

29 Aug 23 - 01:31 PM (#4189218)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/08/29/metallic-spheres-interstellar-origin-avi-loeb-finds/70699783007/

29 Aug 23 - 03:06 PM (#4189412)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Felis catus [...] Normal people go with house cat.

I prefer Moggus domesticus, so ner. More over in the proper thread.

29 Aug 23 - 03:06 PM (#4180257)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Felis catus [...] Normal people go with house cat.

I prefer Moggus domesticus, so ner. More over in the proper thread.

30 Aug 23 - 06:39 AM (#4180295)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What normal people say compared to Moggus and Felix casts an aspersion on the Abbynormal.

With 750 million Felis catus worldwide, by number they are the most successful predators.

30 Aug 23 - 06:39 AM (#4189219)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What normal people say compared to Moggus and Felix casts an aspersion on the Abbynormal.

With 750 million Felis catus worldwide, by number they are the most successful predators.

30 Aug 23 - 06:44 AM (#4189359)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There are plenty of insects that are predators that far outnumber cats. And there are probably hundreds of thousands of spiders in my garden alone.

30 Aug 23 - 06:44 AM (#4180296)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There are plenty of insects that are predators that far outnumber cats. And there are probably hundreds of thousands of spiders in my garden alone.

30 Aug 23 - 08:08 AM (#4180302)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

How could all 48 powerful telescopes, including the Vatican telescope and binocular telescope All in Arizona, not see the Phoenix lights?

30 Aug 23 - 08:08 AM (#4189220)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

How could all 48 powerful telescopes, including the Vatican telescope and binocular telescope All in Arizona, not see the Phoenix lights?

30 Aug 23 - 08:39 AM (#4189221)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speaking of spiders there was one year here that favored spiders above all. Everything was covered in webs and wolf spiders grew to three inches and could jump a meter at a time.

Of course, people outnumber cats.


Perhaps the Phoenix lights were lower in the atmosphere than telescopes could see at such an angle.

30 Aug 23 - 08:39 AM (#4180303)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Speaking of spiders there was one year here that favored spiders above all. Everything was covered in webs and wolf spiders grew to three inches and could jump a meter at a time.

Of course, people outnumber cats.


Perhaps the Phoenix lights were lower in the atmosphere than telescopes could see at such an angle.

30 Aug 23 - 09:12 AM (#4180306)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Governor saw it, many thousands of people saw it, hell even Kurt Russel saw it. What made this sighting odd was that this UFO was in excess of a mile across. It slowly and silently moved over the entire State.

Media and Governmental denialism quickly came into play. It now reminds me of the Trump denialism and big lie fanaticism.

30 Aug 23 - 09:12 AM (#4189222)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The Governor saw it, many thousands of people saw it, hell even Kurt Russel saw it. What made this sighting odd was that this UFO was in excess of a mile across. It slowly and silently moved over the entire State.

Media and Governmental denialism quickly came into play. It now reminds me of the Trump denialism and big lie fanaticism.

30 Aug 23 - 09:44 AM (#4180308)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Okay, so Kurt Russel (sic) saw it but I'm waiting until Dionne Warwick weighs in.

30 Aug 23 - 09:44 AM (#4189145)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Okay, so Kurt Russel (sic) saw it but I'm waiting until Dionne Warwick weighs in.

30 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM (#4180313)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dionne only played an alien in Men in Black
but Presidents have had sightings as well as these old guys

30 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM (#4189223)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dionne only played an alien in Men in Black
but Presidents have had sightings as well as these old guys

30 Aug 23 - 10:33 AM (#4189360)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So, after a moment's thought, you realised that you were wrong about cats. Could I suggest that from now on you have a moment's thought BEFORE you post?

30 Aug 23 - 10:33 AM (#4180317)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So, after a moment's thought, you realised that you were wrong about cats. Could I suggest that from now on you have a moment's thought BEFORE you post?

30 Aug 23 - 12:02 PM (#4180322)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It doesn't matter. In your mind, I am always wrong, evil, or lying.
It also doesn't matter because I don't reply to 1955 anymore.

We have a segment of cat DNA in our genome that is hard to explain how it got there. However you may have thought that dogs would be a little closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, but it turns out that cats actually have 90.2% of the DNA in common with us!
Compared to us cats also have one more vertebra.

30 Aug 23 - 12:02 PM (#4189224)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It doesn't matter. In your mind, I am always wrong, evil, or lying.
It also doesn't matter because I don't reply to 1955 anymore.

We have a segment of cat DNA in our genome that is hard to explain how it got there. However you may have thought that dogs would be a little closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, but it turns out that cats actually have 90.2% of the DNA in common with us!
Compared to us cats also have one more vertebra.

30 Aug 23 - 12:24 PM (#4189163)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

What does "I don't reply to 1955 anymore" mean?

30 Aug 23 - 12:24 PM (#4180324)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

What does "I don't reply to 1955 anymore" mean?

30 Aug 23 - 01:21 PM (#4180326)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes it matters. You constantly make assertions that need fact-checks first that you haven't carried out. This is not lying but it's exceptionally careless and untrustworthy behaviour. As for evil, deluded would be a better descriptor. The upshot is, for example, that while I haven't a clue as to how much DNA we share with cats or how many vertebrae they've got, you are the very last person I'd trust to give me the facts about it, or about anything else come to think of it.

30 Aug 23 - 01:21 PM (#4189361)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Yes it matters. You constantly make assertions that need fact-checks first that you haven't carried out. This is not lying but it's exceptionally careless and untrustworthy behaviour. As for evil, deluded would be a better descriptor. The upshot is, for example, that while I haven't a clue as to how much DNA we share with cats or how many vertebrae they've got, you are the very last person I'd trust to give me the facts about it, or about anything else come to think of it.

31 Aug 23 - 05:44 AM (#4189225)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Authoritarian wars in the USA think closing school libraries is the answer to what they call Wokeism. Libraries in Houston are now detention punishment centers.

An authoritarian takeover is an incremental process. People can judge for themselves who the enemy is.

31 Aug 23 - 05:44 AM (#4180370)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Authoritarian wars in the USA think closing school libraries is the answer to what they call Wokeism. Libraries in Houston are now detention punishment centers.

An authoritarian takeover is an incremental process. People can judge for themselves who the enemy is.

31 Aug 23 - 07:36 AM (#4180378)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I believe in a democratization of knowledge and free thought.
There are those who attack culture, books, and thought.
It's happened before. Previous attempts
We should talk about, hope about and bring about freedom even if it is between 2 or 3 people.

31 Aug 23 - 07:36 AM (#4189226)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I believe in a democratization of knowledge and free thought.
There are those who attack culture, books, and thought.
It's happened before. Previous attempts
We should talk about, hope about and bring about freedom even if it is between 2 or 3 people.

31 Aug 23 - 06:15 PM (#4189227)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It was painful to watch the mental decline of John McCain and now Mitch McConnel and Diane Feinstein. Biden only has remnants of his lifelong battle with stuttering. Early signs of constantly repeating one point can progress to a total freezing of interaction or a confusing cry for help. Abusive ramblings often follow. The victim may not recognize their own failings.

31 Aug 23 - 06:15 PM (#4180407)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

It was painful to watch the mental decline of John McCain and now Mitch McConnel and Diane Feinstein. Biden only has remnants of his lifelong battle with stuttering. Early signs of constantly repeating one point can progress to a total freezing of interaction or a confusing cry for help. Abusive ramblings often follow. The victim may not recognize their own failings.

31 Aug 23 - 06:18 PM (#4180409)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So what's with the trend of posting the same post to more than one thread?

31 Aug 23 - 06:18 PM (#4189362)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

So what's with the trend of posting the same post to more than one thread?

01 Sep 23 - 05:25 AM (#4189164)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Is this thread about science or politics?

01 Sep 23 - 05:25 AM (#4180426)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Is this thread about science or politics?

01 Sep 23 - 05:28 AM (#4180427)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In China, a formalized social credit score can determine whether you're allowed to take out loans or even use public transit. The system is often held up as a particularly dystopian application of big data analytics — and now it seems as though a similar thing is happening in the U.S. and U.K.

It turns out that a number of companies are aggregating mind-boggling piles of financial records, internet activity, and other personal data, The New York Times reports — and using it to determine petty metrics like how long companies will make people wait on hold or whether we're allowed to make returns at a store.

Behind The Curtain
Some of these companies give people the opportunity to take a look at whatever records they have on them, like Sift, which had accumulated over 400 pages of notes on the NYT's Kashmir Hill, ranging from Airbnb reviews to delivery orders.

Technically anyone can request their records by emailing privacy@sift.com then filling out a form online. But the NYT noted that some companies, like consumer-tracking database Kustomer, refused to share data while repeatedly saying it would soon.

Secret Scores
These little-known companies aren't new, but they're only just getting attention for their unsettling data projects, which can have a major behind-the-scenes impact on people's lives. Law enforcement's use of data is secret and may determine a threat score that exposes innocent people to search and far more dangerous intrusions.

Even now, companies like Sift might share the piles of records they've accumulated on you — but won't tell you how other companies are using it.

READ MORE:

More on social credit: Report: America Has a Social Credit System Much Like China’s

01 Sep 23 - 05:28 AM (#4189228)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In China, a formalized social credit score can determine whether you're allowed to take out loans or even use public transit. The system is often held up as a particularly dystopian application of big data analytics — and now it seems as though a similar thing is happening in the U.S. and U.K.

It turns out that a number of companies are aggregating mind-boggling piles of financial records, internet activity, and other personal data, The New York Times reports — and using it to determine petty metrics like how long companies will make people wait on hold or whether we're allowed to make returns at a store.

Behind The Curtain
Some of these companies give people the opportunity to take a look at whatever records they have on them, like Sift, which had accumulated over 400 pages of notes on the NYT's Kashmir Hill, ranging from Airbnb reviews to delivery orders.

Technically anyone can request their records by emailing privacy@sift.com then filling out a form online. But the NYT noted that some companies, like consumer-tracking database Kustomer, refused to share data while repeatedly saying it would soon.

Secret Scores
These little-known companies aren't new, but they're only just getting attention for their unsettling data projects, which can have a major behind-the-scenes impact on people's lives. Law enforcement's use of data is secret and may determine a threat score that exposes innocent people to search and far more dangerous intrusions.

Even now, companies like Sift might share the piles of records they've accumulated on you — but won't tell you how other companies are using it.

READ MORE:

More on social credit: Report: America Has a Social Credit System Much Like China’s

01 Sep 23 - 05:47 AM (#4189413)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Is this thread about science or politics?

Yes.

01 Sep 23 - 05:47 AM (#4180428)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Is this thread about science or politics?

Yes.

01 Sep 23 - 12:39 PM (#4180447)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Just heard (on More Or Less, on Radio 4): The Grauniad lived down to its reputation the other day, du grosse. In an article about the Sun, they said it consists of about 1057 atoms; the number should have been 1057, which is 54 orders of magnitude larger. Moral: Make things (in this case, formatting) as simple as possible, *but no simpler*.

PS: If this is deemed to be better suited for the Jokes thread, please move it.

01 Sep 23 - 12:39 PM (#4189414)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Just heard (on More Or Less, on Radio 4): The Grauniad lived down to its reputation the other day, du grosse. In an article about the Sun, they said it consists of about 1057 atoms; the number should have been 1057, which is 54 orders of magnitude larger. Moral: Make things (in this case, formatting) as simple as possible, *but no simpler*.

PS: If this is deemed to be better suited for the Jokes thread, please move it.

01 Sep 23 - 03:38 PM (#4189363)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel's latest (of many) unattributed copy and paste is from futurism.com. Just in case you'd suddenly thought that he'd turned literate. Hope this helps.

01 Sep 23 - 03:38 PM (#4180450)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel's latest (of many) unattributed copy and paste is from futurism.com. Just in case you'd suddenly thought that he'd turned literate. Hope this helps.

01 Sep 23 - 06:21 PM (#4180457)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Amos admired links most but my personal experiences while true may be outside the possibility of most people. What has been my normal reality would seem impossible to others.
My friend Roger McCall one evening was seated next to his future wife Debbie and I was across from them both, Suddenly he was struck with a look of abject terror and shock. He was beyond speech and despite pleadings from Debbie "What's wrong??" Roger's mouth was gaping wider than I have ever seen while he stared at his own solar plexus as his hands spasmodically grasped air. The entire episode lasted nearly a minute and caused a full panic among us all. I can never forget the agonizing shape of his face and mouth I had never seen in anyone before.
When he recovered from this strange seizure he could not answer what had just happened. Ten years later I learned that he had been shot and killed from a close-range shotgun blast to his solar plexus while collecting rents.

01 Sep 23 - 06:21 PM (#4189229)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Amos admired links most but my personal experiences while true may be outside the possibility of most people. What has been my normal reality would seem impossible to others.
My friend Roger McCall one evening was seated next to his future wife Debbie and I was across from them both, Suddenly he was struck with a look of abject terror and shock. He was beyond speech and despite pleadings from Debbie "What's wrong??" Roger's mouth was gaping wider than I have ever seen while he stared at his own solar plexus as his hands spasmodically grasped air. The entire episode lasted nearly a minute and caused a full panic among us all. I can never forget the agonizing shape of his face and mouth I had never seen in anyone before.
When he recovered from this strange seizure he could not answer what had just happened. Ten years later I learned that he had been shot and killed from a close-range shotgun blast to his solar plexus while collecting rents.

01 Sep 23 - 06:26 PM (#4189230)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://rochestermusic.org/inductees/class-of-2017/uncle-roger-mccall/

01 Sep 23 - 06:26 PM (#4180458)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://rochestermusic.org/inductees/class-of-2017/uncle-roger-mccall/

03 Sep 23 - 07:56 AM (#4180552)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

03 Sep 23 - 07:56 AM (#4189231)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

03 Sep 23 - 08:00 AM (#4189232)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Several years ago I saw an unbelievable video of something I never expected to see. A pickup truck was being chased down a road by a band of tall trees going 30 mph. It was video of a California mudslide.

03 Sep 23 - 08:00 AM (#4180553)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Several years ago I saw an unbelievable video of something I never expected to see. A pickup truck was being chased down a road by a band of tall trees going 30 mph. It was video of a California mudslide.

05 Sep 23 - 03:34 PM (#4180709)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our computer models often have incomplete information.
Its bad news for global warming and methane. Methane is thirty times more dynamic than carbon dioxide when it comes to climate change.
We make half the methane release and the rest is from thawing permafrost. The thawing is rapidly increasing.

There is one point 3 trillion tons of methane trapped beneath the Arctic. It is less trapped every day. Some of the melting is irreversible.

05 Sep 23 - 03:34 PM (#4189233)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our computer models often have incomplete information.
Its bad news for global warming and methane. Methane is thirty times more dynamic than carbon dioxide when it comes to climate change.
We make half the methane release and the rest is from thawing permafrost. The thawing is rapidly increasing.

There is one point 3 trillion tons of methane trapped beneath the Arctic. It is less trapped every day. Some of the melting is irreversible.

06 Sep 23 - 04:38 AM (#4189165)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Methane is a terrible greenhouse gas when leaked into the atmosphere but when it is burnt it is much cleaner that many other fuels. Maybe we should be looking at capturing and using the Arctic reserves?

06 Sep 23 - 04:38 AM (#4180748)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Methane is a terrible greenhouse gas when leaked into the atmosphere but when it is burnt it is much cleaner that many other fuels. Maybe we should be looking at capturing and using the Arctic reserves?

07 Sep 23 - 05:56 AM (#4180853)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Since 1980 half of the Arctic ice has melted. The deep blue exposed sea captures heat melting more ice faster. Satellite measurements underestimated ice thickness.
The jet stream now brings a winter polar vortex south bringing extremes to us year-round.

These are examples of what happens when we go beyond a tipping point.

07 Sep 23 - 05:56 AM (#4189234)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Since 1980 half of the Arctic ice has melted. The deep blue exposed sea captures heat melting more ice faster. Satellite measurements underestimated ice thickness.
The jet stream now brings a winter polar vortex south bringing extremes to us year-round.

These are examples of what happens when we go beyond a tipping point.

07 Sep 23 - 09:28 AM (#4180868)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

Sentience is a funny thing. We assess sentience through communication. If we can't have or observe communication we assume no sentience. Could this be wrong?

A tree with a lifespan of hundreds of years might communicate at a far different rate and in a far different manner than us. A tree might be sentient and we are just too dumb to notice.

And if a tree could be sentient, what about the planet? What about the universe. If the planet is an aware being, are we like fleas or lice on us? Or perhaps more like bacteria or a virus. Maybe the planet is heating up like us having a fever to rid of an irritant.

Just a different take on global warming.

07 Sep 23 - 09:28 AM (#4189410)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

Sentience is a funny thing. We assess sentience through communication. If we can't have or observe communication we assume no sentience. Could this be wrong?

A tree with a lifespan of hundreds of years might communicate at a far different rate and in a far different manner than us. A tree might be sentient and we are just too dumb to notice.

And if a tree could be sentient, what about the planet? What about the universe. If the planet is an aware being, are we like fleas or lice on us? Or perhaps more like bacteria or a virus. Maybe the planet is heating up like us having a fever to rid of an irritant.

Just a different take on global warming.

07 Sep 23 - 10:50 AM (#4180877)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Jeeze that is a profound question finally.

It is not just the tree that is sentient but the ecosystem. For example, the roots of the tree symbiotically communicate via fungal mycelium underground and air-born chemicals with other trees and insects.

Joe and I agree on less than Steve and me BUT we do share an agreement on features of Gaia. Gaia is a simple form of pan-psychism.

The sentience of living systems is by far greater than inanimate matter but it too may have very basic 'urges' we can not know.

On a personal level I understand some of the vocalizations of cats, crows and many other animals but sound is only one part of the spectrum of communication.

07 Sep 23 - 10:50 AM (#4189235)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Jeeze that is a profound question finally.

It is not just the tree that is sentient but the ecosystem. For example, the roots of the tree symbiotically communicate via fungal mycelium underground and air-born chemicals with other trees and insects.

Joe and I agree on less than Steve and me BUT we do share an agreement on features of Gaia. Gaia is a simple form of pan-psychism.

The sentience of living systems is by far greater than inanimate matter but it too may have very basic 'urges' we can not know.

On a personal level I understand some of the vocalizations of cats, crows and many other animals but sound is only one part of the spectrum of communication.

07 Sep 23 - 11:14 AM (#4189236)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Materialist technocrats and AI advocates believe that we can master Nature. Domed cities etc.
Your fever idea is not an isolated thought although global warming is self-induced THIS TIME.
I think nature will have the last word because it can use time in such a way that we and our sentience can not. A do-over mass extinction is not unheard of.

07 Sep 23 - 11:14 AM (#4180880)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Materialist technocrats and AI advocates believe that we can master Nature. Domed cities etc.
Your fever idea is not an isolated thought although global warming is self-induced THIS TIME.
I think nature will have the last word because it can use time in such a way that we and our sentience can not. A do-over mass extinction is not unheard of.

07 Sep 23 - 11:30 AM (#4180881)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am as materialistic as many of you so I am part of the problem, but I can be enlightened at the same time and speak idealistically.
In America, the media crown jewels of materialism are game shows like Lets Make a Deal and The Price is Right. People display how crazy they are for stuff, Yes materialism is fun but at the cost of getting ZONKED.

07 Sep 23 - 11:30 AM (#4189237)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am as materialistic as many of you so I am part of the problem, but I can be enlightened at the same time and speak idealistically.
In America, the media crown jewels of materialism are game shows like Lets Make a Deal and The Price is Right. People display how crazy they are for stuff, Yes materialism is fun but at the cost of getting ZONKED.

07 Sep 23 - 12:14 PM (#4180883)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

"I am as materialistic as many of you so I am part of the problem, but I can be enlightened at the same time and speak idealistically"

Translation: Do as I say but not as I do.

Sounds like the very definition of hypocrisy.

07 Sep 23 - 12:14 PM (#4189146)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

"I am as materialistic as many of you so I am part of the problem, but I can be enlightened at the same time and speak idealistically"

Translation: Do as I say but not as I do.

Sounds like the very definition of hypocrisy.

07 Sep 23 - 02:34 PM (#4180891)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I admit I do not live the lifestyle of an 18th-century Native American.

07 Sep 23 - 02:34 PM (#4189238)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I admit I do not live the lifestyle of an 18th-century Native American.

07 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4189364)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't live in the real world, pal.

07 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4180905)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't live in the real world, pal.

07 Sep 23 - 05:53 PM (#4180910)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Your 2-dimensional pedantic Reality is not mine.
I will not abandon my euphemisms or allegories be they broad brush or not. True communication does not require being cruel. My nature is kind for the most part.

07 Sep 23 - 05:53 PM (#4189239)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Your 2-dimensional pedantic Reality is not mine.
I will not abandon my euphemisms or allegories be they broad brush or not. True communication does not require being cruel. My nature is kind for the most part.

07 Sep 23 - 06:08 PM (#4189365)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your nature is half-arsed, half-truth (or less), uninformed utter bullshit. I've told you before. Check your facts before you post. It's what the rest of us do and it's what you never do, and by so not doing you bring the forum into disrepute. I think you could be quite an old man. But that's no bloody excuse.

07 Sep 23 - 06:08 PM (#4180912)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Your nature is half-arsed, half-truth (or less), uninformed utter bullshit. I've told you before. Check your facts before you post. It's what the rest of us do and it's what you never do, and by so not doing you bring the forum into disrepute. I think you could be quite an old man. But that's no bloody excuse.

07 Sep 23 - 07:24 PM (#4180924)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You are only a frantic trans-Atlantic semantic pedantic
who spent too much time in a child's mindset.

07 Sep 23 - 07:24 PM (#4189240)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You are only a frantic trans-Atlantic semantic pedantic
who spent too much time in a child's mindset.

07 Sep 23 - 09:29 PM (#4189339)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

I think you could be quite an old man.

From what I can work out, Donuel seems to be around a year younger than me so - not old. Not old at all!

DC

07 Sep 23 - 09:29 PM (#4180930)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

I think you could be quite an old man.

From what I can work out, Donuel seems to be around a year younger than me so - not old. Not old at all!

DC

08 Sep 23 - 06:22 AM (#4180944)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Its probably just avoiding the sun for decades so I look 55 but feel 72. I have never had very much melanin.
I do not post at 5 AM most days to deliberately bring Mudcat into disrepute as claimed. It seems Steve posts about me more than any possible subject.!? However, it might be nferaious of me to give him smoothing to tlak about.

08 Sep 23 - 06:22 AM (#4189241)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Its probably just avoiding the sun for decades so I look 55 but feel 72. I have never had very much melanin.
I do not post at 5 AM most days to deliberately bring Mudcat into disrepute as claimed. It seems Steve posts about me more than any possible subject.!? However, it might be nferaious of me to give him smoothing to tlak about.

08 Sep 23 - 06:36 AM (#4189242)
Subject: RE: BS: Steve is in love
From: Donuel

Left a good job back in the eighties
Workin' for myself every night and day
And I never lost one minute of sleepin'
I was worryin' 'bout the way that things might've been
Big wheels keep on turnin'
Ooh, your keyboard keep on burnin'
And you're trollin' (trollin'), trollin', yeah (trollin')
trollin' on the puter (trollin' on your puter)
Cleaned a lot of plates in Memphis
And I pumped a lot of 'tane up in New York State
But I never saw the good side of the city
Until I hitched a ride on the mental health bus
You know the wheels keep on turnin'
Proud people keep on burnin'
And he's trollin' (trollin'), trollin', yeah (trollin')
Trollin' on the puter (trollin' on the puter)
Say he's trollin' (trollin'), all the way from UK.
Trollin' on his puter (trollin' on his puter)

08 Sep 23 - 06:36 AM (#4180945)
Subject: RE: BS: Steve is in love
From: Donuel

Left a good job back in the eighties
Workin' for myself every night and day
And I never lost one minute of sleepin'
I was worryin' 'bout the way that things might've been
Big wheels keep on turnin'
Ooh, your keyboard keep on burnin'
And you're trollin' (trollin'), trollin', yeah (trollin')
trollin' on the puter (trollin' on your puter)
Cleaned a lot of plates in Memphis
And I pumped a lot of 'tane up in New York State
But I never saw the good side of the city
Until I hitched a ride on the mental health bus
You know the wheels keep on turnin'
Proud people keep on burnin'
And he's trollin' (trollin'), trollin', yeah (trollin')
Trollin' on the puter (trollin' on the puter)
Say he's trollin' (trollin'), all the way from UK.
Trollin' on his puter (trollin' on his puter)

08 Sep 23 - 06:47 AM (#4180946)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I would rather learn more new things about Beethoven from Steven but he is obsessed instead with trolling me. Wierd.

08 Sep 23 - 06:47 AM (#4189243)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I would rather learn more new things about Beethoven from Steven but he is obsessed instead with trolling me. Wierd.

08 Sep 23 - 09:27 AM (#4189244)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our journey through space begins when our egg is inside a follicle-like spaceship and is released from the ovary to 'free float' to the fallopian tube which is not directly connected to the ovary.
The fallopian tube does get chemical signals to go closer to the ovary but there is that free-floating mysterious journey before the fallopian journey and fertlization begins. Perhaps there is that gap so sperm can not reach immature eggs at the ovary.

08 Sep 23 - 09:27 AM (#4180959)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our journey through space begins when our egg is inside a follicle-like spaceship and is released from the ovary to 'free float' to the fallopian tube which is not directly connected to the ovary.
The fallopian tube does get chemical signals to go closer to the ovary but there is that free-floating mysterious journey before the fallopian journey and fertlization begins. Perhaps there is that gap so sperm can not reach immature eggs at the ovary.

08 Sep 23 - 09:49 AM (#4180964)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just think before you post. I don't post at 5 am either. Depending on where you are, we are at least five hours ahead of you, you clown.

08 Sep 23 - 09:49 AM (#4189366)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just think before you post. I don't post at 5 am either. Depending on where you are, we are at least five hours ahead of you, you clown.

08 Sep 23 - 09:52 AM (#4189367)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And in the interests of accuracy, a concept alien to you, my first name is Stephen, as I've pointed out several times before. Get my name wrong again and I'll call you Donuel Duck for ever more. That would be quite appropriate in any case, you quackpot.

08 Sep 23 - 09:52 AM (#4180965)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And in the interests of accuracy, a concept alien to you, my first name is Stephen, as I've pointed out several times before. Get my name wrong again and I'll call you Donuel Duck for ever more. That would be quite appropriate in any case, you quackpot.

08 Sep 23 - 05:44 PM (#4181017)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Once again 'I' post right after 5 AM many mornings.
I'm not good with names Stephano.

A fertilized ovum travels in the fallopian tube it spins like a spiral galaxy while propelled by special cilia.

08 Sep 23 - 05:44 PM (#4189245)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Once again 'I' post right after 5 AM many mornings.
I'm not good with names Stephano.

A fertilized ovum travels in the fallopian tube it spins like a spiral galaxy while propelled by special cilia.

09 Sep 23 - 03:37 AM (#4189368)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Then it isn't "free floating," is it?

09 Sep 23 - 03:37 AM (#4181043)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Then it isn't "free floating," is it?

09 Sep 23 - 08:32 AM (#4181065)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Once fertilized, the egg becomes impervious to all sperm. The late coming sperm set up that spinning motion.

Once captured by the fallopian structure the free-floating stage of the follicle is over.

09 Sep 23 - 08:32 AM (#4189246)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Once fertilized, the egg becomes impervious to all sperm. The late coming sperm set up that spinning motion.

Once captured by the fallopian structure the free-floating stage of the follicle is over.

09 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM (#4189247)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What I am getting at is the virtual poetic similarity of our beginnings to the grand structures of the universe itself.
One need not call it pan psychism but there is more than meets the materialistic eye.

09 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM (#4181074)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What I am getting at is the virtual poetic similarity of our beginnings to the grand structures of the universe itself.
One need not call it pan psychism but there is more than meets the materialistic eye.

09 Sep 23 - 10:11 AM (#4181078)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There is no "free-floating." The fimbriae, finger-like processes at the ovary end of the fallopian tube, sweep over the ovary as the follicle breaks open and set up a current that directs the oocyte into the fallopian tube. Then peristaltic activity of the smooth muscle in the wall of the tube moves the oocyte in the direction of the uterus. This takes several days and fertilisation, if it happens, takes place in the fallopian tube. The wall of the tube does contain cilia but they perform a secondary role only in moving the egg and have been shown to be non-essential.

There's nothing like checking your facts before posting. Have I said that before, I ask myself?

09 Sep 23 - 10:11 AM (#4189369)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

There is no "free-floating." The fimbriae, finger-like processes at the ovary end of the fallopian tube, sweep over the ovary as the follicle breaks open and set up a current that directs the oocyte into the fallopian tube. Then peristaltic activity of the smooth muscle in the wall of the tube moves the oocyte in the direction of the uterus. This takes several days and fertilisation, if it happens, takes place in the fallopian tube. The wall of the tube does contain cilia but they perform a secondary role only in moving the egg and have been shown to be non-essential.

There's nothing like checking your facts before posting. Have I said that before, I ask myself?

09 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4189340)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Where do the gooseberry bushes come into all this?

DC

09 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4181104)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

Where do the gooseberry bushes come into all this?

DC

09 Sep 23 - 01:51 PM (#4181107)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"Where do the gooseberry bushes come into all this?"

Thats where the Storks nest !!

09 Sep 23 - 01:51 PM (#4189191)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"Where do the gooseberry bushes come into all this?"

Thats where the Storks nest !!

09 Sep 23 - 02:45 PM (#4189248)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You have repeated what I have said except you can not admit the free floating stage.

If you did a search they go so far as to say the vesicle free floats in the abdominal cavity.

The electric current comment however is part of the similarity of a larger universe thought.

09 Sep 23 - 02:45 PM (#4181114)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

You have repeated what I have said except you can not admit the free floating stage.

If you did a search they go so far as to say the vesicle free floats in the abdominal cavity.

The electric current comment however is part of the similarity of a larger universe thought.

09 Sep 23 - 03:11 PM (#4181120)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We are quibbling about distances as small as a cm.

09 Sep 23 - 03:11 PM (#4189249)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

We are quibbling about distances as small as a cm.

09 Sep 23 - 03:11 PM (#4189370)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Absolute rubbish, as ever.

09 Sep 23 - 03:11 PM (#4181121)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Absolute rubbish, as ever.

09 Sep 23 - 03:27 PM (#4181126)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

SOP. You never prove it do you?

The neurologic evolution to a true homo sapiens to me includes the fact we are artists compared to our predecessors.

WE ARE ALL ARTISTS. Maybe it is cooking, pottery or painting but we have a penchant to make artful things. We don't do much cave wall painting but look at all the murals everywhere.
I knew a woman who was an artist at sex. If your art is coding or welding or wielding a guitar we still are all artists.

09 Sep 23 - 03:27 PM (#4189250)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

SOP. You never prove it do you?

The neurologic evolution to a true homo sapiens to me includes the fact we are artists compared to our predecessors.

WE ARE ALL ARTISTS. Maybe it is cooking, pottery or painting but we have a penchant to make artful things. We don't do much cave wall painting but look at all the murals everywhere.
I knew a woman who was an artist at sex. If your art is coding or welding or wielding a guitar we still are all artists.

09 Sep 23 - 04:13 PM (#4189344)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

Too much spite. Here's an interesting video about the growth of SUV sales.

09 Sep 23 - 04:13 PM (#4181138)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

Too much spite. Here's an interesting video about the growth of SUV sales.

09 Sep 23 - 04:21 PM (#4181142)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I'm not "quibbling" about anything. I'm giving you the unalloyed facts. You were plain wrong, simple as that.

09 Sep 23 - 04:21 PM (#4189371)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I'm not "quibbling" about anything. I'm giving you the unalloyed facts. You were plain wrong, simple as that.

09 Sep 23 - 07:37 PM (#4189251)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The "Mudcat" Ameiurus natalis is relatively rare but lives in small ponds 2 or 3 feet deep to actual mud. The largest pond they inhabit is a max 50 across. A mudcat's whiskers can smell good water from bad hydrogen disulfide bad water.

09 Sep 23 - 07:37 PM (#4181167)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The "Mudcat" Ameiurus natalis is relatively rare but lives in small ponds 2 or 3 feet deep to actual mud. The largest pond they inhabit is a max 50 across. A mudcat's whiskers can smell good water from bad hydrogen disulfide bad water.

09 Sep 23 - 07:56 PM (#4181169)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Another way we mirror the Universe

09 Sep 23 - 07:56 PM (#4189252)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Another way we mirror the Universe

09 Sep 23 - 08:38 PM (#4189253)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most rare galaxy in the Universe is called a Hoag's object.
It is a single or a double-ringed galaxy around a luminous core.
There are no known forces that can form such a galaxy.

The 3 body or N body problem would only serve to tear such a galaxy into chaos.

09 Sep 23 - 08:38 PM (#4181172)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The most rare galaxy in the Universe is called a Hoag's object.
It is a single or a double-ringed galaxy around a luminous core.
There are no known forces that can form such a galaxy.

The 3 body or N body problem would only serve to tear such a galaxy into chaos.

09 Sep 23 - 11:00 PM (#4181174)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are surprises in this thread with some doozies to come.
It may not be your cup of tea but the better way to navigate is to just skip over the Steve comments. Minus the abusive and dangerous remarks, his attitude is basically a biblical "there is nothing new under the sun".
I am here to demonstrate that there is plenty that is NEW under the trillions upon trillions of suns.

The elephant in the room is that there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks.
This brings certain questions in our culture that can be addressed.
There is a medical bias that favors the young over the old.
There are other prejudices against older folks. I'll save those for another time, I just hope that people of any age can be timeless enough to explore new ideas.

09 Sep 23 - 11:00 PM (#4189254)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are surprises in this thread with some doozies to come.
It may not be your cup of tea but the better way to navigate is to just skip over the Steve comments. Minus the abusive and dangerous remarks, his attitude is basically a biblical "there is nothing new under the sun".
I am here to demonstrate that there is plenty that is NEW under the trillions upon trillions of suns.

The elephant in the room is that there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks.
This brings certain questions in our culture that can be addressed.
There is a medical bias that favors the young over the old.
There are other prejudices against older folks. I'll save those for another time, I just hope that people of any age can be timeless enough to explore new ideas.

10 Sep 23 - 02:24 AM (#4189166)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks"

Is there? Are you sure about that or is it another unsubstantiated Donism?

10 Sep 23 - 02:24 AM (#4181178)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks"

Is there? Are you sure about that or is it another unsubstantiated Donism?

10 Sep 23 - 04:20 AM (#4181185)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Once captured by the fallopian structure the free-floating stage of the follicle is over."

Well there's no free-floating, of course, and the thing that leaves the ovary is not a "follicle." The follicle stays put in the ovary.

"If you did a search they go so far as to say the vesicle free floats in the abdominal cavity."

The thing that leaves the ovary that's guided into the fallopian tube is not a "vesicle."

By all means skip over my posts, folks. If you do, pure fiction will prevail! :-)

10 Sep 23 - 04:20 AM (#4189372)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"Once captured by the fallopian structure the free-floating stage of the follicle is over."

Well there's no free-floating, of course, and the thing that leaves the ovary is not a "follicle." The follicle stays put in the ovary.

"If you did a search they go so far as to say the vesicle free floats in the abdominal cavity."

The thing that leaves the ovary that's guided into the fallopian tube is not a "vesicle."

By all means skip over my posts, folks. If you do, pure fiction will prevail! :-)

10 Sep 23 - 06:31 AM (#4189255)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Occam's razor or keeping it simple is a very human thing. If it turns out there are other bubble universes out there making a multiverse, we will have to change the definition of simple because anything that could happen would be happening. So it is not an insult to say we don't completely know reality.

Meanwhile back on the Earth, in the next 20 years we will be able to augment ourselves and any building project. It will be a new age of Augmentation using AI, Robots and new conceptual design.
Previous ages of hunter-gatherer, agricultural, industrial, and computer age are about to see a new age of augmentation which will happen faster than every preceding age.

10 Sep 23 - 06:31 AM (#4181191)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Occam's razor or keeping it simple is a very human thing. If it turns out there are other bubble universes out there making a multiverse, we will have to change the definition of simple because anything that could happen would be happening. So it is not an insult to say we don't completely know reality.

Meanwhile back on the Earth, in the next 20 years we will be able to augment ourselves and any building project. It will be a new age of Augmentation using AI, Robots and new conceptual design.
Previous ages of hunter-gatherer, agricultural, industrial, and computer age are about to see a new age of augmentation which will happen faster than every preceding age.

10 Sep 23 - 06:46 AM (#4181193)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Right now in the Netherlands, a bridge is being built designed by AI with its steel components made by digital printers and assembled by robot. In a similar vein new structural components for passenger planes are being made that are stronger yet weigh half as much.
The age of augmentation has begun.

10 Sep 23 - 06:46 AM (#4189256)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Right now in the Netherlands, a bridge is being built designed by AI with its steel components made by digital printers and assembled by robot. In a similar vein new structural components for passenger planes are being made that are stronger yet weigh half as much.
The age of augmentation has begun.

10 Sep 23 - 07:25 AM (#4189192)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

How about providing a link to your source.

10 Sep 23 - 07:25 AM (#4181196)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

How about providing a link to your source.

10 Sep 23 - 07:57 AM (#4181198)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

So what will be the new definition of the word simple? Oh wait, I've got it, complex.

10 Sep 23 - 07:57 AM (#4189147)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

So what will be the new definition of the word simple? Oh wait, I've got it, complex.

10 Sep 23 - 08:18 AM (#4181200)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More of my sources are countless hours of TED talks.
Some of you are not immune to Steve like dinosaurs in whatever career path you are on. The cure is immunity. The best immunity is compassion and even better, self-compassion. We are only human and can make mistakes as part of learning. Big or small forgive them all and you will grow faster and better day by day.

Make any experience as growing the texture of life more beautiful instead of less horrible. In life you will encounter horrible people but remember their suffering need not be yours. You will become more free with self compassion.

10 Sep 23 - 08:18 AM (#4189257)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

More of my sources are countless hours of TED talks.
Some of you are not immune to Steve like dinosaurs in whatever career path you are on. The cure is immunity. The best immunity is compassion and even better, self-compassion. We are only human and can make mistakes as part of learning. Big or small forgive them all and you will grow faster and better day by day.

Make any experience as growing the texture of life more beautiful instead of less horrible. In life you will encounter horrible people but remember their suffering need not be yours. You will become more free with self compassion.

10 Sep 23 - 08:30 AM (#4189258)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Not every person of discovery enjoyed the immunity of self-compassion.
If you are an imaginative creator of any kind there are difficulties of being before your time. Think how lucky you are to have that experience. It often leads to real advancement and help to others.
The greats share in being a help to others. The small people often do the opposite of help. Build up your immunity and you will be happier, more creative and perhaps luckier.

10 Sep 23 - 08:30 AM (#4181201)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Not every person of discovery enjoyed the immunity of self-compassion.
If you are an imaginative creator of any kind there are difficulties of being before your time. Think how lucky you are to have that experience. It often leads to real advancement and help to others.
The greats share in being a help to others. The small people often do the opposite of help. Build up your immunity and you will be happier, more creative and perhaps luckier.

10 Sep 23 - 08:43 AM (#4181202)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Ancient Greeks called this, 'know thyself'.
Self-knowledge is the sum total of who you truly are as a person.
This can lead to wisdom and surprise without the distraction of ego.

10 Sep 23 - 08:43 AM (#4189259)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Ancient Greeks called this, 'know thyself'.
Self-knowledge is the sum total of who you truly are as a person.
This can lead to wisdom and surprise without the distraction of ego.

10 Sep 23 - 08:56 AM (#4189260)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Your Amygdala in your brain is like a general fork in the road, one path to avoidance and the other to approach.
All avoidance and no approach make Jack a dull boy.
Too much approach may make Jack get eaten by a predator.
May your journey be a happy balance.

10 Sep 23 - 08:56 AM (#4181204)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Your Amygdala in your brain is like a general fork in the road, one path to avoidance and the other to approach.
All avoidance and no approach make Jack a dull boy.
Too much approach may make Jack get eaten by a predator.
May your journey be a happy balance.

10 Sep 23 - 10:00 AM (#4181211)
Subject: RE: BS: Orgasms
From: Donuel

Research shows that in masturbation there is NO DIFFERENCE between men and women in the time required or the capacity for pleasure.
That women have a hard or tricky time achieving orgasm is A TOTAL MYTH. If the standard of penis vagina sex is the standard then equality of time and pleasure goes down.
The structure of the clitoris is similar to the head of a penis but there is a clitoral structure on each side of the inner vulva similar to the shaft of the penis.

After the age of 60 there is a slow decline in the pleasure response and a time increase in both sexes.

The big takeaway from this research is that there is an inequality in the belief of different responses with orgasm which may cause some women to fake it and men to remain stupid with a myth.

10 Sep 23 - 10:00 AM (#4189261)
Subject: RE: BS: Orgasms
From: Donuel

Research shows that in masturbation there is NO DIFFERENCE between men and women in the time required or the capacity for pleasure.
That women have a hard or tricky time achieving orgasm is A TOTAL MYTH. If the standard of penis vagina sex is the standard then equality of time and pleasure goes down.
The structure of the clitoris is similar to the head of a penis but there is a clitoral structure on each side of the inner vulva similar to the shaft of the penis.

After the age of 60 there is a slow decline in the pleasure response and a time increase in both sexes.

The big takeaway from this research is that there is an inequality in the belief of different responses with orgasm which may cause some women to fake it and men to remain stupid with a myth.

10 Sep 23 - 10:14 AM (#4189262)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Zen Buddism teaches how to avoid binary thinking which traps people in a 'this or that paradox' that misses the point. The use of koans are a teaching tool to overcome binary thinking

For more varied topics go to https://ed.ted.com/

Choose Discover/Lessons

10 Sep 23 - 10:14 AM (#4181214)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Zen Buddism teaches how to avoid binary thinking which traps people in a 'this or that paradox' that misses the point. The use of koans are a teaching tool to overcome binary thinking

For more varied topics go to https://ed.ted.com/

Choose Discover/Lessons

10 Sep 23 - 10:22 AM (#4181215)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

The 3D printed stainless steel bridge in Amsterdam opened in 2021. It's actually quite beautiful. It reminds me of a highly-designed wooden footbridge installed in a creek park with the twists in the design. (The local bridge looks like a Pacific NW cedar canoe that washed up in the Texas prairie, but whatever).

10 Sep 23 - 10:22 AM (#4189338)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stilly River Sage

The 3D printed stainless steel bridge in Amsterdam opened in 2021. It's actually quite beautiful. It reminds me of a highly-designed wooden footbridge installed in a creek park with the twists in the design. (The local bridge looks like a Pacific NW cedar canoe that washed up in the Texas prairie, but whatever).

10 Sep 23 - 10:55 AM (#4181218)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

Thank you SRS, however I think that if a poster mentions a particular subject they should, as a matter of course, give a link to their source.

As we have seen on frequent occasions information that has been "quoted" has proved, even after a brief perusal of the Internet, to be patently untrue.

10 Sep 23 - 10:55 AM (#4189193)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

Thank you SRS, however I think that if a poster mentions a particular subject they should, as a matter of course, give a link to their source.

As we have seen on frequent occasions information that has been "quoted" has proved, even after a brief perusal of the Internet, to be patently untrue.

10 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM (#4189167)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Aye. I'm still waiting for proof that people who post below the line here are older than those who post above the line. As one who regularly posts on both I find that puzzling!

10 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM (#4181221)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Aye. I'm still waiting for proof that people who post below the line here are older than those who post above the line. As one who regularly posts on both I find that puzzling!

10 Sep 23 - 11:49 AM (#4181224)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Remember my determination was based on a probable percentage/per capita comparison of catters, not a total volume. It makes sense to me the actual doers and producers are younger above the line than below.
A troll will often misquote and then attack their own perversion of what is said. It's a variation of the good ol straw man attack.

It was said "facts are sacred" but some facts are so pithy as to be insignificant and other facts are so monumental we can not see them in their entirety. Truth is even more complex.

I could talk ideas or be mired in explaining every phrase, word, and comma. I prefer ideas.

10 Sep 23 - 11:49 AM (#4189263)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Remember my determination was based on a probable percentage/per capita comparison of catters, not a total volume. It makes sense to me the actual doers and producers are younger above the line than below.
A troll will often misquote and then attack their own perversion of what is said. It's a variation of the good ol straw man attack.

It was said "facts are sacred" but some facts are so pithy as to be insignificant and other facts are so monumental we can not see them in their entirety. Truth is even more complex.

I could talk ideas or be mired in explaining every phrase, word, and comma. I prefer ideas.

10 Sep 23 - 01:37 PM (#4189168)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

No misquotes on my part. Here is your exact quote, Don

"The elephant in the room is that there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks."

I am still waiting for proof of that statement. I doubt if it is true.

10 Sep 23 - 01:37 PM (#4181235)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

No misquotes on my part. Here is your exact quote, Don

"The elephant in the room is that there are more older people under the line than above, at least a higher percentage of older folks."

I am still waiting for proof of that statement. I doubt if it is true.

10 Sep 23 - 01:59 PM (#4181239)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

My impression would chime with Donuel's, that the codger factor is higher below the line. But it's only an impression from occasional visits.

10 Sep 23 - 01:59 PM (#4189345)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

My impression would chime with Donuel's, that the codger factor is higher below the line. But it's only an impression from occasional visits.

10 Sep 23 - 02:20 PM (#4189169)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Everyone has an opinion Thompson but facts are sacred. If someone proves that posts below the line are from older folk I will accept it but until then it is just speculation.

For instance, my impression is that Don makes many things up but I will not state that as a fact until I can prove it!

10 Sep 23 - 02:20 PM (#4181242)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Everyone has an opinion Thompson but facts are sacred. If someone proves that posts below the line are from older folk I will accept it but until then it is just speculation.

For instance, my impression is that Don makes many things up but I will not state that as a fact until I can prove it!

10 Sep 23 - 02:31 PM (#4181244)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If there is a global lying enemy lurking out there, I would say it is inequality in all its ugly forms.

10 Sep 23 - 02:31 PM (#4189264)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If there is a global lying enemy lurking out there, I would say it is inequality in all its ugly forms.

10 Sep 23 - 02:55 PM (#4189170)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm not even sure what that means!

10 Sep 23 - 02:55 PM (#4181246)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm not even sure what that means!

10 Sep 23 - 02:58 PM (#4181247)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

He doesn't actually make things up as such. He thinks he's read something somewhere, he issues us with a garbled and simplistic version of it and confidently asserts misinformation arising from his lack of comprehension. When he's found out he gives us a load of flannel about his imagination or ideas or his bogus prophetic skills or something. There's a very simple solution (isn't that supposed to be the spirit of the thread?): check your facts before posting. Almost everything he said about ovulation was incorrect. He hadn't checked. I did the checking and found out what he should have found out for himself, that his initial ideas were near-garbage. He's just posted some bollix about orgasms. I know it's bollix but I haven't got the energy to check. I've been up since the crack of doom, have travelled for four hours by road to and from airports and endured a hot, sweaty delayed flight from Málaga, including mucho hanging about standing up in boiling airports. I'm knackered, and that's a real fact!

10 Sep 23 - 02:58 PM (#4189373)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

He doesn't actually make things up as such. He thinks he's read something somewhere, he issues us with a garbled and simplistic version of it and confidently asserts misinformation arising from his lack of comprehension. When he's found out he gives us a load of flannel about his imagination or ideas or his bogus prophetic skills or something. There's a very simple solution (isn't that supposed to be the spirit of the thread?): check your facts before posting. Almost everything he said about ovulation was incorrect. He hadn't checked. I did the checking and found out what he should have found out for himself, that his initial ideas were near-garbage. He's just posted some bollix about orgasms. I know it's bollix but I haven't got the energy to check. I've been up since the crack of doom, have travelled for four hours by road to and from airports and endured a hot, sweaty delayed flight from Málaga, including mucho hanging about standing up in boiling airports. I'm knackered, and that's a real fact!

10 Sep 23 - 03:19 PM (#4189265)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our brain and the Universe share fractal principles but does the Universe share a consciousness?
https://www.facebook.com/SPACELover00/photos/a.100738889402683/105203365622902/?type=3

10 Sep 23 - 03:19 PM (#4181250)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our brain and the Universe share fractal principles but does the Universe share a consciousness?
https://www.facebook.com/SPACELover00/photos/a.100738889402683/105203365622902/?type=3

10 Sep 23 - 03:25 PM (#4181251)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Click left or right on the image for a nice tour,

10 Sep 23 - 03:25 PM (#4189266)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Click left or right on the image for a nice tour,

10 Sep 23 - 03:48 PM (#4189267)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

How good is the Webb telescope? If there was a bumblebee on the moon and the Webb was as far away as the Earth, the telescope could detect the bumblebee.

10 Sep 23 - 03:48 PM (#4181256)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

How good is the Webb telescope? If there was a bumblebee on the moon and the Webb was as far away as the Earth, the telescope could detect the bumblebee.

10 Sep 23 - 06:35 PM (#4181266)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I really do wish you were happier Steve, not the fake positivity kind of happiness. I'm having fun in my pursuits. shrug I'm not being flip.
Do get some rest. You have many unexamined assumptions then tell lies to support those assumptions. Ridgid denial doesn't help people or the planet.

10 Sep 23 - 06:35 PM (#4189268)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I really do wish you were happier Steve, not the fake positivity kind of happiness. I'm having fun in my pursuits. shrug I'm not being flip.
Do get some rest. You have many unexamined assumptions then tell lies to support those assumptions. Ridgid denial doesn't help people or the planet.

10 Sep 23 - 07:50 PM (#4189374)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I'm a very happy chap, as anyone who knows me would attest. It ill-behoves you to comment on my general demeanour as you have never met me in person. I wouldn't comment on yours for the same reason, though I would muse on the fact that some of the happiest people I know are also the stupidest. When I can be arsed to examine the assertions you make on this forum, I find that you peddle misinformation as a matter of routine. In a recent example I found that almost every assertion you made about ovulation was completely wrong, not just slightly in error, and I've done the donkey work in exposing that and correcting you. Much of what you post here is ostensibly about science. But, you see, science is there to advance human understanding of the world, the universe and the laws of nature. Almost all of what you post is either speculative, whimsical, half-baked, overly-simplistic, unchecked or just downright misunderstood. Well in science that simply won't do. When you post your abundant inaccuracies you claim that it doesn't matter because, variously, you claim to be a man of ideas, ultra-imaginative, some kind of free thinking visionary, when all the time we can see that you're just a bloody clot. In addition, you are completely useless when it comes to clearly communicating whatever it is you're trying to tell us. You appear to revel in whimsy and obscurantism, perhaps thinking that it marks you out as some kind of floating-over-the-rest-of-us guru. Well you're just not. Basically, you're a fraud, you've be been called out several times each at least by gilly, Raggytash, Backwoodsman, Dave, Ebbie, Joe and others, apart from yours truly. As we saw on the Trump thread, you have an arch-protector in high places. I'd say, don't let that go to your head. Instead, let's post to threads like this only after checking our facts first, and let's try to understand that science is there to wonderfully extend our understanding of the universe via baby steps, not via wild-west flights of whimsy.

10 Sep 23 - 07:50 PM (#4181272)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I'm a very happy chap, as anyone who knows me would attest. It ill-behoves you to comment on my general demeanour as you have never met me in person. I wouldn't comment on yours for the same reason, though I would muse on the fact that some of the happiest people I know are also the stupidest. When I can be arsed to examine the assertions you make on this forum, I find that you peddle misinformation as a matter of routine. In a recent example I found that almost every assertion you made about ovulation was completely wrong, not just slightly in error, and I've done the donkey work in exposing that and correcting you. Much of what you post here is ostensibly about science. But, you see, science is there to advance human understanding of the world, the universe and the laws of nature. Almost all of what you post is either speculative, whimsical, half-baked, overly-simplistic, unchecked or just downright misunderstood. Well in science that simply won't do. When you post your abundant inaccuracies you claim that it doesn't matter because, variously, you claim to be a man of ideas, ultra-imaginative, some kind of free thinking visionary, when all the time we can see that you're just a bloody clot. In addition, you are completely useless when it comes to clearly communicating whatever it is you're trying to tell us. You appear to revel in whimsy and obscurantism, perhaps thinking that it marks you out as some kind of floating-over-the-rest-of-us guru. Well you're just not. Basically, you're a fraud, you've be been called out several times each at least by gilly, Raggytash, Backwoodsman, Dave, Ebbie, Joe and others, apart from yours truly. As we saw on the Trump thread, you have an arch-protector in high places. I'd say, don't let that go to your head. Instead, let's post to threads like this only after checking our facts first, and let's try to understand that science is there to wonderfully extend our understanding of the universe via baby steps, not via wild-west flights of whimsy.

11 Sep 23 - 04:17 AM (#4181295)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I see that you were complicit another thread closure Don. I suggest that you keep your arcane ramblings to this thread and then others, including me, can keep our repudiation of your wilder ideas here too. The moderators will be happier if they are not having to police multiple threads

11 Sep 23 - 04:17 AM (#4189171)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I see that you were complicit another thread closure Don. I suggest that you keep your arcane ramblings to this thread and then others, including me, can keep our repudiation of your wilder ideas here too. The moderators will be happier if they are not having to police multiple threads

11 Sep 23 - 08:23 AM (#4189269)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I will remain predictive, up to date and sometimes whimsical in the nature of my interests. If you are not interested, change the channel.

With all of your misinformation that has been invented regarding myself, my observations, and opinions, I am reminded how Qanon and Trump operated. Granted you are glib.

I understand you want this thread closed.
Cancel a couple of sightseeing tours and please donate $10,000 to Mudcat.

11 Sep 23 - 08:23 AM (#4181319)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I will remain predictive, up to date and sometimes whimsical in the nature of my interests. If you are not interested, change the channel.

With all of your misinformation that has been invented regarding myself, my observations, and opinions, I am reminded how Qanon and Trump operated. Granted you are glib.

I understand you want this thread closed.
Cancel a couple of sightseeing tours and please donate $10,000 to Mudcat.

11 Sep 23 - 08:26 AM (#4181320)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Then you may get your wish.

11 Sep 23 - 08:26 AM (#4189270)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Then you may get your wish.

11 Sep 23 - 09:09 AM (#4189375)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"I will remain predictive, up to date and sometimes whimsical in the nature of my interests. And usually wrong." That's what your self-aggrandising statement should have gone on to say.

There is no virtue in being wrong all the time, then dressing up your wrongness in bogus claims of what a great imagination you have, etc. The virtue lies in spending a little time checking your facts before posting, and typing in clear, simple English. Good scientists don't just sit at home having a big think. They also endeavour to communicate their knowledge as clearly as possible to others. Apart from the facts that you are not a good scientist and that you're a useless communicator, you're fine.

11 Sep 23 - 09:09 AM (#4181322)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"I will remain predictive, up to date and sometimes whimsical in the nature of my interests. And usually wrong." That's what your self-aggrandising statement should have gone on to say.

There is no virtue in being wrong all the time, then dressing up your wrongness in bogus claims of what a great imagination you have, etc. The virtue lies in spending a little time checking your facts before posting, and typing in clear, simple English. Good scientists don't just sit at home having a big think. They also endeavour to communicate their knowledge as clearly as possible to others. Apart from the facts that you are not a good scientist and that you're a useless communicator, you're fine.

11 Sep 23 - 10:02 AM (#4181326)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Change the channel and donate to Modcat:

The Socratic method is still valuable in the area of the law and cosmology.

As I predicted the bogus Inflation theory hid a greater secret. That secret was that all the heavier elements were present 13.7 billion years ago. What that portends is that all the elements for life, and possibly life itself, were present at what appears at the 'let there be light moment'.

With our knowledge of evolution, an extra 13.7 billion years of evolution could have a profound effect on how advanced life can be elsewhere.



Another subject where centuries old myths have been exposed is regarding the myth that female virginity is always linked to a broken and bleeding hyman. Based on that myth there has been shame, false accusation, and honor killings. While the hymen is generally shaped like a scrunchie with a hole in the middle it varies. ONLY HALF OF WOMEN would experience bleeding upon initial intercourse.

11 Sep 23 - 10:02 AM (#4189271)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Change the channel and donate to Modcat:

The Socratic method is still valuable in the area of the law and cosmology.

As I predicted the bogus Inflation theory hid a greater secret. That secret was that all the heavier elements were present 13.7 billion years ago. What that portends is that all the elements for life, and possibly life itself, were present at what appears at the 'let there be light moment'.

With our knowledge of evolution, an extra 13.7 billion years of evolution could have a profound effect on how advanced life can be elsewhere.



Another subject where centuries old myths have been exposed is regarding the myth that female virginity is always linked to a broken and bleeding hyman. Based on that myth there has been shame, false accusation, and honor killings. While the hymen is generally shaped like a scrunchie with a hole in the middle it varies. ONLY HALF OF WOMEN would experience bleeding upon initial intercourse.

11 Sep 23 - 12:04 PM (#4189272)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Condensing information into an easily understandable format does leave out enormous amounts of data but I do not consider this wrong or nonsense or idiocy.

In Our Bodies Ourselves I initially condensed the following;

The follicle with the maturing egg inside moves toward the surface of the ovary. At ovulation, the follicle and the ovarian surface open, allowing the tiny egg to FLOAT out. About this time, you may feel a twinge or cramp in the lower abdomen or back (called mittelschmerz, German for “middle pain”).

Headaches, stomach pains, or sluggishness are not uncommon at the time of ovulation. But you might also feel fantastic and not even know you are ovulating.

The Egg After Ovulation
After ovulation, the fingerlike ends (fimbria) of the NEARBY fallopian tube sweep the released egg into the tube’s funnel-shaped end.

_____________

For my purposes I did not condense a more complete source like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441996/

The prevarication about my statements comes from a source I choose to ignore but expect me to condense in the future.

11 Sep 23 - 12:04 PM (#4181336)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Condensing information into an easily understandable format does leave out enormous amounts of data but I do not consider this wrong or nonsense or idiocy.

In Our Bodies Ourselves I initially condensed the following;

The follicle with the maturing egg inside moves toward the surface of the ovary. At ovulation, the follicle and the ovarian surface open, allowing the tiny egg to FLOAT out. About this time, you may feel a twinge or cramp in the lower abdomen or back (called mittelschmerz, German for “middle pain”).

Headaches, stomach pains, or sluggishness are not uncommon at the time of ovulation. But you might also feel fantastic and not even know you are ovulating.

The Egg After Ovulation
After ovulation, the fingerlike ends (fimbria) of the NEARBY fallopian tube sweep the released egg into the tube’s funnel-shaped end.

_____________

For my purposes I did not condense a more complete source like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441996/

The prevarication about my statements comes from a source I choose to ignore but expect me to condense in the future.

11 Sep 23 - 01:07 PM (#4181342)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

By mid century global warming will force more agriculture indoors.
CRISPR and AI will make some crops growable by conventional means but the end of the century will find supply failing demand worldwide.

We will of course be dead and not see the ravages of famine. Beans be it quinoa or soy may prove to save mankind.
Its not just crops under threat, it is the declining number of farmers. With luck and policy change, a farmer will not just be a cost to be minimized in the future. More than crops and farmers needing change to survive, bees will also need to be onboard.

11 Sep 23 - 01:07 PM (#4189273)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

By mid century global warming will force more agriculture indoors.
CRISPR and AI will make some crops growable by conventional means but the end of the century will find supply failing demand worldwide.

We will of course be dead and not see the ravages of famine. Beans be it quinoa or soy may prove to save mankind.
Its not just crops under threat, it is the declining number of farmers. With luck and policy change, a farmer will not just be a cost to be minimized in the future. More than crops and farmers needing change to survive, bees will also need to be onboard.

11 Sep 23 - 01:25 PM (#4181347)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You rattled on more than once about "free-floating," which doesn't happen. Your last attempt is the first time you mentioned the fimbriae guiding the oocyte into the fallopian tube, a crucial part of events and the opposite of "free-floating." You failed to mention the main mechanism by which the egg is transported along the tube. You stated in effect that it's the follicle that escapes from the ovary, which showed that you didn't know what the follicle is. You then referred to the oocyte as a "vesicle," which is simply risible. Your errors were nothing to do with "leaving out enormous amounts of data" and everything to do with your highly-imperfect understanding of the process you were pontificating about. About eight or ten minutes looking it up on wiki would have remedied all of it for you, but, as ever, you just fire proudly off as if you're the expert. You latest additions are entertaining if nothing else, and now you're moving into areas sexual such as masturbation, how pleasure declines with age, the tale of the hymen (note spelling...) and suspected non-virginity, etc. I can't wait for the next instalment. Maybe it will be your imperfectly-remembered chunks of the Kama Sutra that will be so badly-described that anyone trying them out will dislocate every joint in their body. Pass the mushrooms!

11 Sep 23 - 01:25 PM (#4189376)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You rattled on more than once about "free-floating," which doesn't happen. Your last attempt is the first time you mentioned the fimbriae guiding the oocyte into the fallopian tube, a crucial part of events and the opposite of "free-floating." You failed to mention the main mechanism by which the egg is transported along the tube. You stated in effect that it's the follicle that escapes from the ovary, which showed that you didn't know what the follicle is. You then referred to the oocyte as a "vesicle," which is simply risible. Your errors were nothing to do with "leaving out enormous amounts of data" and everything to do with your highly-imperfect understanding of the process you were pontificating about. About eight or ten minutes looking it up on wiki would have remedied all of it for you, but, as ever, you just fire proudly off as if you're the expert. You latest additions are entertaining if nothing else, and now you're moving into areas sexual such as masturbation, how pleasure declines with age, the tale of the hymen (note spelling...) and suspected non-virginity, etc. I can't wait for the next instalment. Maybe it will be your imperfectly-remembered chunks of the Kama Sutra that will be so badly-described that anyone trying them out will dislocate every joint in their body. Pass the mushrooms!

11 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4189377)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And quinoa is not "beans." Next...

11 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4181348)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And quinoa is not "beans." Next...

11 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4181349)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Quinoa is not a bean, it's a pseudo cereal or a pseudograin. It does go well with beans though, I make it with black beans.

11 Sep 23 - 01:28 PM (#4189148)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Quinoa is not a bean, it's a pseudo cereal or a pseudograin. It does go well with beans though, I make it with black beans.

11 Sep 23 - 02:10 PM (#4181358)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

And the secret of cooking quinoa just right? Equal amounts of water/stock and grain. That makes it fluffy with the right amount of bite.

11 Sep 23 - 02:10 PM (#4189346)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Thompson

And the secret of cooking quinoa just right? Equal amounts of water/stock and grain. That makes it fluffy with the right amount of bite.

11 Sep 23 - 03:17 PM (#4181364)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It would be a good idea to change channel, Don, but when you post your views on all kinds of subjects on many unrelated threads it is difficult to avoid you. Stick to this thread and everyone will know which channel to avoid or watch accordingly. There is only 1 UK politics thread. There is only 1 Trump thread. Let's make this the one and only Don thread eh?

Excellent suggestion. Duke it out over here. ---mudelf

11 Sep 23 - 03:17 PM (#4189172)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It would be a good idea to change channel, Don, but when you post your views on all kinds of subjects on many unrelated threads it is difficult to avoid you. Stick to this thread and everyone will know which channel to avoid or watch accordingly. There is only 1 UK politics thread. There is only 1 Trump thread. Let's make this the one and only Don thread eh?

Excellent suggestion. Duke it out over here. ---mudelf

11 Sep 23 - 09:01 PM (#4181372)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Donate to Maudcat.
As some are sports fans I am a science fan. It is too bad so few post science findings.

I used to be awed by Elon Musk but lately I am disillusioned.
Check out his new biography.

11 Sep 23 - 09:01 PM (#4189274)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Donate to Maudcat.
As some are sports fans I am a science fan. It is too bad so few post science findings.

I used to be awed by Elon Musk but lately I am disillusioned.
Check out his new biography.

11 Sep 23 - 09:25 PM (#4189275)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Meat without the animal could make it to market soon. cultured meat

11 Sep 23 - 09:25 PM (#4181373)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Meat without the animal could make it to market soon. cultured meat

12 Sep 23 - 02:43 AM (#4181379)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Not bad at all, Don. Just stick to this thread. Simple! (See what I did there!?)

Why do you keep saying "donate to Mudcat" when you cannot possibly know who donates or how much?

12 Sep 23 - 02:43 AM (#4189173)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Not bad at all, Don. Just stick to this thread. Simple! (See what I did there!?)

Why do you keep saying "donate to Mudcat" when you cannot possibly know who donates or how much?

12 Sep 23 - 05:02 AM (#4181388)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"I am a science fan"

This belongs in the joke thread, surely.

12 Sep 23 - 05:02 AM (#4189378)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

"I am a science fan"

This belongs in the joke thread, surely.

12 Sep 23 - 07:39 AM (#4181403)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Mudelf. Maybe Don's wacky posts on other threads can be moved here in futire?

12 Sep 23 - 07:39 AM (#4189174)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Mudelf. Maybe Don's wacky posts on other threads can be moved here in futire?

12 Sep 23 - 12:26 PM (#4189276)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The House opened an Impeachment inquiry of President Biden
HE IS GUILTY OF
being 82

Thats the same age my dad died on 9-11
Ruth Bader Ginsberg died at 87
Feinstien, McConnel and 15 others are over 80.

12 Sep 23 - 12:26 PM (#4181425)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The House opened an Impeachment inquiry of President Biden
HE IS GUILTY OF
being 82

Thats the same age my dad died on 9-11
Ruth Bader Ginsberg died at 87
Feinstien, McConnel and 15 others are over 80.

12 Sep 23 - 12:38 PM (#4181426)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Among the 15 are Pelosi and my Senator.

12 Sep 23 - 12:38 PM (#4189277)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Among the 15 are Pelosi and my Senator.

12 Sep 23 - 01:44 PM (#4181432)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It won't happen. It's a mere irritant.

12 Sep 23 - 01:44 PM (#4189379)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

It won't happen. It's a mere irritant.

12 Sep 23 - 07:49 PM (#4181449)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The inquiry will happen. The conviction won't.

This check list for a diagnosis of being a psychopath reminds me of Trump and someone else;

1 Glibness / superficial charm                        
2. Previous diagnosis as psychopath (or similar)                        
3. Egocentricity / grandiose sense of self-worth                        
4. Proneness to boredom / low frustration tolerance                        
5. Pathological lying and deception                        
6. Conning / lack of sincerity                        
7. Lack of remorse or guilt                        
8. Lack of affect and emotional depth                        
9. Callous / lack of empathy                        
10. Parasitic lifestyle                        
11. Short-tempered / poor behavioral controls

12 Sep 23 - 07:49 PM (#4189278)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The inquiry will happen. The conviction won't.

This check list for a diagnosis of being a psychopath reminds me of Trump and someone else;

1 Glibness / superficial charm                        
2. Previous diagnosis as psychopath (or similar)                        
3. Egocentricity / grandiose sense of self-worth                        
4. Proneness to boredom / low frustration tolerance                        
5. Pathological lying and deception                        
6. Conning / lack of sincerity                        
7. Lack of remorse or guilt                        
8. Lack of affect and emotional depth                        
9. Callous / lack of empathy                        
10. Parasitic lifestyle                        
11. Short-tempered / poor behavioral controls

12 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4181450)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Why not go for a nice lie down.

12 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4189380)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Why not go for a nice lie down.

12 Sep 23 - 08:04 PM (#4181452)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A pure 100% psychopath is rare. A semi psychopathic person is more common and is generally 1% of the population. This grey zone of psychopaths are your typical folks aka 'horrible bosses'.

12 Sep 23 - 08:04 PM (#4189279)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A pure 100% psychopath is rare. A semi psychopathic person is more common and is generally 1% of the population. This grey zone of psychopaths are your typical folks aka 'horrible bosses'.

12 Sep 23 - 08:18 PM (#4181454)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You're so utterly obsessed with Trump to the extent that you clearly love him. When you write the kind of garbage you wrote two posts ago you are taking sideswipes whilst lacking the courage to address your points directly to the person you're referring to, as if we didn't already know. That makes you a coward.

12 Sep 23 - 08:18 PM (#4189381)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You're so utterly obsessed with Trump to the extent that you clearly love him. When you write the kind of garbage you wrote two posts ago you are taking sideswipes whilst lacking the courage to address your points directly to the person you're referring to, as if we didn't already know. That makes you a coward.

12 Sep 23 - 10:48 PM (#4181459)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Another 1% statistic is the difference between people. We are 99% the same and what is left over are our ancestry, features, talents, personality etc.

I know it irks some but I do have a wacky talent for predictions like my Grandma.
Before the game yesterday I told my wife that with all the hoopla about Aron Rogers and the Jets that by the third play he will break his ankle and be out for the season.   10 minutes later on the 3rd play Rodgers blew out his Achilles tendon and will be out for the season.

My prediction of 9-11 started 7 years before the attack and even prompted me to report it in person to the FBI. Of course, they thought I was wacky to suggest anti-terrorist tech. I even did a 16 sq. ft. painting of a twin tower destruction. So be it minor or major events I am convinced that there are a few times I can't rationally explain.

Coincidence isn't a good enough explanation for me and I am unapologetic for the experiences.

12 Sep 23 - 10:48 PM (#4189280)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Another 1% statistic is the difference between people. We are 99% the same and what is left over are our ancestry, features, talents, personality etc.

I know it irks some but I do have a wacky talent for predictions like my Grandma.
Before the game yesterday I told my wife that with all the hoopla about Aron Rogers and the Jets that by the third play he will break his ankle and be out for the season.   10 minutes later on the 3rd play Rodgers blew out his Achilles tendon and will be out for the season.

My prediction of 9-11 started 7 years before the attack and even prompted me to report it in person to the FBI. Of course, they thought I was wacky to suggest anti-terrorist tech. I even did a 16 sq. ft. painting of a twin tower destruction. So be it minor or major events I am convinced that there are a few times I can't rationally explain.

Coincidence isn't a good enough explanation for me and I am unapologetic for the experiences.

12 Sep 23 - 10:55 PM (#4189281)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Correction: Rodgers was hurt on the 4th play.

12 Sep 23 - 10:55 PM (#4181460)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Correction: Rodgers was hurt on the 4th play.

13 Sep 23 - 03:34 AM (#4181463)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And the Achilles tendon is not your ankle bones. As for the rest of your predictive powers, o special one, go and have that lie down I suggested.

"Will this wind lay low the mountains of the earrrrrth?"

13 Sep 23 - 03:34 AM (#4189382)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

And the Achilles tendon is not your ankle bones. As for the rest of your predictive powers, o special one, go and have that lie down I suggested.

"Will this wind lay low the mountains of the earrrrrth?"

13 Sep 23 - 04:02 AM (#4189383)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Get your quote right, Shaw: "Will this wind be so mighty as to lay low the mountains of the earrrrth?"

13 Sep 23 - 04:02 AM (#4181467)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Get your quote right, Shaw: "Will this wind be so mighty as to lay low the mountains of the earrrrth?"

13 Sep 23 - 05:19 AM (#4181473)
Subject: RE: DECLUTTER * Health/Home Ecologic-Innovation *2023
From: Donuel

If my handle wasn't Donuel it would be Capt. Obvious. What is obvious to me are the historic threads on this forum that were most dear to people had 3 things in common. They were Health, Happiness and Love.
DECLUTTER is one of those threads. MOAB (now extinct) in the days of Amos and Catspaw was a thread of outrageous happiness. Then there was the thread for those who were suffering.

Above the line Identity, community and purpose is clear and vibrant.
Below the line, there is not so much happiness at times.
The KISS thread is about seed ideas that can grow, There are new things under the sun and a need for fundamental change. Since what is past has not passed, culture often falls back to 19th and 20th-century subjective stereotypes that, if left unchallenged, continue into our future.
Old ideas that nature or people are to be exploited, defeated or overcome suck but persist. What may seem like whacky ideas might grow into a mighty oak. NAH !

13 Sep 23 - 05:19 AM (#4189283)
Subject: RE: DECLUTTER * Health/Home Ecologic-Innovation *2023
From: Donuel

If my handle wasn't Donuel it would be Capt. Obvious. What is obvious to me are the historic threads on this forum that were most dear to people had 3 things in common. They were Health, Happiness and Love.
DECLUTTER is one of those threads. MOAB (now extinct) in the days of Amos and Catspaw was a thread of outrageous happiness. Then there was the thread for those who were suffering.

Above the line Identity, community and purpose is clear and vibrant.
Below the line, there is not so much happiness at times.
The KISS thread is about seed ideas that can grow, There are new things under the sun and a need for fundamental change. Since what is past has not passed, culture often falls back to 19th and 20th-century subjective stereotypes that, if left unchallenged, continue into our future.
Old ideas that nature or people are to be exploited, defeated or overcome suck but persist. What may seem like whacky ideas might grow into a mighty oak. NAH !

13 Sep 23 - 10:27 AM (#4189282)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are people who are taught they have to hide some kind of individuality from society. It used to be race, gay people or intersex people who were told to hide but whatever differences be it disability or ability I say viva la difference. The fear of being made fun of should not cage people in denial, whatever their differences.

Living in the open might mean there could be sacrifices or challenges but it is better than having stupid people dictate your worth or worthlessness. Being free needs courage not cowardice in lying and hiding. There is such a thing as too much information but too much honesty doesn't hurt anyone unless there is criminality.

Believe me I am happy to not be a steve.

13 Sep 23 - 10:27 AM (#4181493)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

There are people who are taught they have to hide some kind of individuality from society. It used to be race, gay people or intersex people who were told to hide but whatever differences be it disability or ability I say viva la difference. The fear of being made fun of should not cage people in denial, whatever their differences.

Living in the open might mean there could be sacrifices or challenges but it is better than having stupid people dictate your worth or worthlessness. Being free needs courage not cowardice in lying and hiding. There is such a thing as too much information but too much honesty doesn't hurt anyone unless there is criminality.

Believe me I am happy to not be a steve.

13 Sep 23 - 10:39 AM (#4181495)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

But some of us are already in the habit of not believing anything you say! Tricky...

13 Sep 23 - 10:39 AM (#4189384)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

But some of us are already in the habit of not believing anything you say! Tricky...

13 Sep 23 - 12:01 PM (#4181501)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I suppose thanks to you. As for Trump I was just the first to warn as did Bill Mahre. I was also the first to warn of Covid.

13 Sep 23 - 12:01 PM (#4189284)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I suppose thanks to you. As for Trump I was just the first to warn as did Bill Mahre. I was also the first to warn of Covid.

13 Sep 23 - 12:04 PM (#4181503)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

No you were not.

13 Sep 23 - 12:04 PM (#4189385)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

No you were not.

13 Sep 23 - 12:20 PM (#4181505)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

While predictions are not perfectly precise, they are uncanny and don't all fit in the deduction box

As for Covid there was inside info from the NIH. However biowar accidents have been an accident waiting to happen for decades.

You remind me of the argument employee from Monty Python. :^/.

13 Sep 23 - 12:20 PM (#4189285)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

While predictions are not perfectly precise, they are uncanny and don't all fit in the deduction box

As for Covid there was inside info from the NIH. However biowar accidents have been an accident waiting to happen for decades.

You remind me of the argument employee from Monty Python. :^/.

13 Sep 23 - 12:26 PM (#4181509)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Don, I need you to have a look at my wagers for next Sunday and to give me a future Injury Report.

13 Sep 23 - 12:26 PM (#4189149)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Don, I need you to have a look at my wagers for next Sunday and to give me a future Injury Report.

13 Sep 23 - 12:35 PM (#4181511)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Now for something entirely different...
The CDC calls isolation an epidemic

13 Sep 23 - 12:35 PM (#4189286)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Now for something entirely different...
The CDC calls isolation an epidemic

13 Sep 23 - 12:50 PM (#4189287)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dave, I do not drink or gamble. When Google first offered public shares I did not consider investing $400,000 gambling.

13 Sep 23 - 12:50 PM (#4181513)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Dave, I do not drink or gamble. When Google first offered public shares I did not consider investing $400,000 gambling.

13 Sep 23 - 01:09 PM (#4181516)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

I don't gamble either, I was just goofing with you.

13 Sep 23 - 01:09 PM (#4189150)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

I don't gamble either, I was just goofing with you.

13 Sep 23 - 01:20 PM (#4181517)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

Well gillymor, how about

win, win, win, watch out for that gate?

13 Sep 23 - 01:20 PM (#4189411)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Stanron

Well gillymor, how about

win, win, win, watch out for that gate?

13 Sep 23 - 01:58 PM (#4181522)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

no idea

13 Sep 23 - 01:58 PM (#4189151)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

no idea

13 Sep 23 - 03:13 PM (#4181530)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"The KISS thread is about seed ideas that can grow,'

I thought it was about keeping things simple?

Still, I am happy for it to mutate into a Don bollocks thread if that means the rest of the forum is free from said bollocks!

13 Sep 23 - 03:13 PM (#4189175)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

"The KISS thread is about seed ideas that can grow,'

I thought it was about keeping things simple?

Still, I am happy for it to mutate into a Don bollocks thread if that means the rest of the forum is free from said bollocks!

13 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM (#4189288)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Google has split twice 2 to 1 and is now 136 from 85 in 2004.
Its just about out of juice unless AI gives it a bump but if tech monopolies are broken up, SELL.

13 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM (#4181539)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Google has split twice 2 to 1 and is now 136 from 85 in 2004.
Its just about out of juice unless AI gives it a bump but if tech monopolies are broken up, SELL.

13 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4181542)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you can't do it in your head that's over 5 times the money.
Dave should invest in Marvel. Their new trans superhero 'Gnome Man' could be a hit.

13 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4189289)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you can't do it in your head that's over 5 times the money.
Dave should invest in Marvel. Their new trans superhero 'Gnome Man' could be a hit.

14 Sep 23 - 03:06 AM (#4189176)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's no dafter than some of your posts, Don.

14 Sep 23 - 03:06 AM (#4181562)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

It's no dafter than some of your posts, Don.

14 Sep 23 - 07:35 AM (#4181571)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Reality has no particles, reality is only probabilities based on information. why postive choices create happiness and reality

14 Sep 23 - 07:35 AM (#4189290)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Reality has no particles, reality is only probabilities based on information. why postive choices create happiness and reality

14 Sep 23 - 08:03 AM (#4181573)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This thread started with symmetry theory based on particles.
Now we arrive at a theory of EVERYTHING in which there are no particles unless there is a wave collapse.
A big Theory of Everthing (A big TOE) has a very real effect on your life more than anything 'discussed' so far.
It explains my experience and quandaries and more than trying to unite quantum theory with Relativity - it even explains consciousness.
If you are curious you would need to invest 40 minutes or you could deny everything and ignore this link. Reality

14 Sep 23 - 08:03 AM (#4189291)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

This thread started with symmetry theory based on particles.
Now we arrive at a theory of EVERYTHING in which there are no particles unless there is a wave collapse.
A big Theory of Everthing (A big TOE) has a very real effect on your life more than anything 'discussed' so far.
It explains my experience and quandaries and more than trying to unite quantum theory with Relativity - it even explains consciousness.
If you are curious you would need to invest 40 minutes or you could deny everything and ignore this link. Reality

14 Sep 23 - 08:14 AM (#4181575)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can see why you quote it, Don, but as a podcast by "Next Level Soul" that has the headline "NASA Quantum Physicist PROVES We LIVE in a CONSCIOUS SIMULATION", I don't think I shall be investing any more of time in it. I am denying nothing. Just not prepared to waste 2 hours - not 40 minutes BTW - on something which falls at the first hurdle.

14 Sep 23 - 08:14 AM (#4189177)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can see why you quote it, Don, but as a podcast by "Next Level Soul" that has the headline "NASA Quantum Physicist PROVES We LIVE in a CONSCIOUS SIMULATION", I don't think I shall be investing any more of time in it. I am denying nothing. Just not prepared to waste 2 hours - not 40 minutes BTW - on something which falls at the first hurdle.

14 Sep 23 - 09:22 AM (#4181583)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

.
A simulation universe is not the takeaway point of the big TOE.
The main point is that consciousness and intent shape the future in ways that may seem impossible but are real.
Those who are not curious are as good as dead
.

14 Sep 23 - 09:22 AM (#4189292)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

.
A simulation universe is not the takeaway point of the big TOE.
The main point is that consciousness and intent shape the future in ways that may seem impossible but are real.
Those who are not curious are as good as dead
.

14 Sep 23 - 10:14 AM (#4181586)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Don, you might be a little easier to take if you weren't so condescending and judgmental.

14 Sep 23 - 10:14 AM (#4189152)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Don, you might be a little easier to take if you weren't so condescending and judgmental.

14 Sep 23 - 10:26 AM (#4181589)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you are not curious you are as good as dead

is an Albert Einstien quote.

14 Sep 23 - 10:26 AM (#4189293)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you are not curious you are as good as dead

is an Albert Einstien quote.

14 Sep 23 - 10:50 AM (#4189294)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

14 Sep 23 - 10:50 AM (#4181591)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

14 Sep 23 - 10:51 AM (#4181592)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

He could be a pompous jackass at times, as well.

14 Sep 23 - 10:51 AM (#4189153)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

He could be a pompous jackass at times, as well.

14 Sep 23 - 11:00 AM (#4181593)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The way consciousness intertwines with physis, like a vine's tendril about a branch, is more real and relevant than String Theory which is still just materialistic and stupidly complex. As people we have free will but are very predictable. We obey the same fractal patterns as the fractal universe which is also very predictable but allows for the unlikely.

14 Sep 23 - 11:00 AM (#4189295)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The way consciousness intertwines with physis, like a vine's tendril about a branch, is more real and relevant than String Theory which is still just materialistic and stupidly complex. As people we have free will but are very predictable. We obey the same fractal patterns as the fractal universe which is also very predictable but allows for the unlikely.

14 Sep 23 - 11:07 AM (#4189296)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

He could be whimsical and funny at times as well. Aren't we all?

14 Sep 23 - 11:07 AM (#4181596)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

He could be whimsical and funny at times as well. Aren't we all?

14 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM (#4181599)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm extremely curious about many things. Just not about how to waste 2 hours of my life on your confirmation bias. It's like being interested enough to find out what it is like to stick pins in my eyes.

14 Sep 23 - 11:17 AM (#4189178)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm extremely curious about many things. Just not about how to waste 2 hours of my life on your confirmation bias. It's like being interested enough to find out what it is like to stick pins in my eyes.

14 Sep 23 - 11:38 AM (#4181604)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In response to the 99% of people's comments that are negative and abusive, I consider myself quite positive. But I always remember that this is social media and the people who post are mostly old lonely guys who sound more bitter than they may actually be.

14 Sep 23 - 11:38 AM (#4189297)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

In response to the 99% of people's comments that are negative and abusive, I consider myself quite positive. But I always remember that this is social media and the people who post are mostly old lonely guys who sound more bitter than they may actually be.

14 Sep 23 - 12:51 PM (#4181608)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I dunno how you arrive at these daft conclusions, Don. "the people who post are mostly old lonely guys"? Old. Yes, I'll give you that one. Lonely. I reckon that most of us who post on here are into folk music which, just by its nature, is a very social activity. Far from lonely. Guys. Surely there are as many gals?

For someone who often braggs of his mental prowess your powers of reasoning leave a lot to be desired.

14 Sep 23 - 12:51 PM (#4189179)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I dunno how you arrive at these daft conclusions, Don. "the people who post are mostly old lonely guys"? Old. Yes, I'll give you that one. Lonely. I reckon that most of us who post on here are into folk music which, just by its nature, is a very social activity. Far from lonely. Guys. Surely there are as many gals?

For someone who often braggs of his mental prowess your powers of reasoning leave a lot to be desired.

14 Sep 23 - 01:19 PM (#4189347)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Lonely? Not me - I have a lovely wife many years my junior, who loves me, as the saying goes, ‘to the moon and back’, a son and his partner and my grandson, my lovely dog, a wide circle of friends of both sexes from my schooldays, my sea-going days, my working days, my sporting activities, and my musical activities. I don’t have time to be lonely.

Bitter? Not me - I’m having too much fun to be bitter.

14 Sep 23 - 01:19 PM (#4181612)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Lonely? Not me - I have a lovely wife many years my junior, who loves me, as the saying goes, ‘to the moon and back’, a son and his partner and my grandson, my lovely dog, a wide circle of friends of both sexes from my schooldays, my sea-going days, my working days, my sporting activities, and my musical activities. I don’t have time to be lonely.

Bitter? Not me - I’m having too much fun to be bitter.

14 Sep 23 - 02:43 PM (#4181619)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

THIS IS AMAZING, using red light and a hologram we can get micron-sized resolution of our entire body or brain.
WARNING Gnome it will take time to click the link
the inventor of the better MRI

14 Sep 23 - 02:43 PM (#4189298)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

THIS IS AMAZING, using red light and a hologram we can get micron-sized resolution of our entire body or brain.
WARNING Gnome it will take time to click the link
the inventor of the better MRI

14 Sep 23 - 02:52 PM (#4189299)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Click on the link's TED talks

an entire MRI-like device is now no larger than a Santa Claus belt.

14 Sep 23 - 02:52 PM (#4181620)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Click on the link's TED talks

an entire MRI-like device is now no larger than a Santa Claus belt.

14 Sep 23 - 03:09 PM (#4181623)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Einstein did not make that quote. More made-up shite.

14 Sep 23 - 03:09 PM (#4189386)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Einstein did not make that quote. More made-up shite.

14 Sep 23 - 04:54 PM (#4181633)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Curiosity should begin at birth and never end until death
Quote Albert Einstien

the importence of curiosity

steve must have been constipated, he only comes here to take a shite

14 Sep 23 - 04:54 PM (#4189300)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Curiosity should begin at birth and never end until death
Quote Albert Einstien

the importence of curiosity

steve must have been constipated, he only comes here to take a shite

14 Sep 23 - 05:00 PM (#4189301)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The full quote

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed."

--"The World As I See It," originally published in FORUM AND CENTURY, 193

14 Sep 23 - 05:00 PM (#4181635)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The full quote

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed."

--"The World As I See It," originally published in FORUM AND CENTURY, 193

14 Sep 23 - 05:03 PM (#4181636)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Here's an Einstein QUOTE:

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed."

Any idea why I put the word QUOTE in capitals, Donuel? Any idea why your Einstein QUOTE is not a QUOTE at all? Shall I tell you why? Because when you QUOTE someone you use their exact words. And why is it that whenever I'm piqued to check up on something you've said, I find that it's wrong?

Busted, can't be trusted...

14 Sep 23 - 05:03 PM (#4189387)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Here's an Einstein QUOTE:

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed."

Any idea why I put the word QUOTE in capitals, Donuel? Any idea why your Einstein QUOTE is not a QUOTE at all? Shall I tell you why? Because when you QUOTE someone you use their exact words. And why is it that whenever I'm piqued to check up on something you've said, I find that it's wrong?

Busted, can't be trusted...

14 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4189388)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Full quote my arse. What you posted wasn't even a part of the quote. At least you've looked it up now. Pity you didn't do that before you posted your nonsense.

14 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM (#4181637)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Full quote my arse. What you posted wasn't even a part of the quote. At least you've looked it up now. Pity you didn't do that before you posted your nonsense.

14 Sep 23 - 05:14 PM (#4181638)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am not a medium. I do not speak to the dead.

14 Sep 23 - 05:14 PM (#4189302)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am not a medium. I do not speak to the dead.

14 Sep 23 - 06:02 PM (#4181641)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You lied. You made it up.

14 Sep 23 - 06:02 PM (#4189389)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You lied. You made it up.

14 Sep 23 - 06:07 PM (#4181645)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I don't give a ****

14 Sep 23 - 06:07 PM (#4189303)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I don't give a ****

14 Sep 23 - 06:56 PM (#4189304)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/14/nasa-to-americans-help-us-find-ufos-00115896

14 Sep 23 - 06:56 PM (#4181648)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/14/nasa-to-americans-help-us-find-ufos-00115896

14 Sep 23 - 07:31 PM (#4181651)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't give a **** for the truth, that's for sure. You are taking the piss out of everyone who reads your posts.

14 Sep 23 - 07:31 PM (#4189390)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You don't give a **** for the truth, that's for sure. You are taking the piss out of everyone who reads your posts.

14 Sep 23 - 07:35 PM (#4189391)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The UFO bullshit that you've been propagating so enthusiastically has been dissed by NASA, admittedly a bit more diplomatically than I've done here. Stick to science is NASA's story. Take the hint.

14 Sep 23 - 07:35 PM (#4181652)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

The UFO bullshit that you've been propagating so enthusiastically has been dissed by NASA, admittedly a bit more diplomatically than I've done here. Stick to science is NASA's story. Take the hint.

14 Sep 23 - 08:21 PM (#4181655)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Those who are as good as dead do not speak for everyone.
I speak for myself since I can only access my experiences and study.

A real-life tech GENIUS

14 Sep 23 - 08:21 PM (#4189305)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Those who are as good as dead do not speak for everyone.
I speak for myself since I can only access my experiences and study.

A real-life tech GENIUS

14 Sep 23 - 08:32 PM (#4181656)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel's "quote": "Curiosity should begin at birth and never end until death"
Quote Albert Einstien [sic]

The true quote: "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death."

There ya go, chaps and chapesses. His "quote" isn't actually a quote at all. It's half-remembered nonsense that he casually chucks at us. He is so full of his self-regard that he insults us by posting rubbish that he can't be bothered to check, thinking we won't notice. "Fan of science," eh?

14 Sep 23 - 08:32 PM (#4189392)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Donuel's "quote": "Curiosity should begin at birth and never end until death"
Quote Albert Einstien [sic]

The true quote: "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death."

There ya go, chaps and chapesses. His "quote" isn't actually a quote at all. It's half-remembered nonsense that he casually chucks at us. He is so full of his self-regard that he insults us by posting rubbish that he can't be bothered to check, thinking we won't notice. "Fan of science," eh?

14 Sep 23 - 08:41 PM (#4181658)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The last half inch of the genius link is golden

14 Sep 23 - 08:41 PM (#4189306)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The last half inch of the genius link is golden

14 Sep 23 - 08:54 PM (#4189307)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

UFO PHYSICS

14 Sep 23 - 08:54 PM (#4181661)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

UFO PHYSICS

15 Sep 23 - 05:47 AM (#4181681)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Sometimes, people who are "as good as dead" are curious enough to investigate things, make connections, look things up, check their facts and get things right. There's joy in all those endeavours that you have yet to find, old son. There's no joy in casually posting half-baked, half-remembered and downright inaccurate guff, especially coming from someone who makes the specious claim that he's "a fan of science."

15 Sep 23 - 05:47 AM (#4189393)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Sometimes, people who are "as good as dead" are curious enough to investigate things, make connections, look things up, check their facts and get things right. There's joy in all those endeavours that you have yet to find, old son. There's no joy in casually posting half-baked, half-remembered and downright inaccurate guff, especially coming from someone who makes the specious claim that he's "a fan of science."

15 Sep 23 - 07:12 AM (#4181685)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

A week or so ago, the ‘Trump’ thread was closed on the grounds that my pointing out to Donuel that an accusation of rape doesn’t automatically make the accused man a rapist amounted to ‘bickering’. Although that thread has now been opened again, several posts, including my two correcting Donuel’s error, have been deleted.

Yet you two, with occasional contributions from others, have been continually kicking lumps out of each other since post #3 on 5th January, without any action, or even comment, from ‘Da Management’.

Strange how my two posts on the Trump thread were viewed as ‘bickering’ and justified the closure of the thread, yet a nine-month-long running feud involving regular insults in this thread goes on unchecked.

Does anyone understand the reason(s) for the apparently-double moderational standards here?

15 Sep 23 - 07:12 AM (#4189348)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

A week or so ago, the ‘Trump’ thread was closed on the grounds that my pointing out to Donuel that an accusation of rape doesn’t automatically make the accused man a rapist amounted to ‘bickering’. Although that thread has now been opened again, several posts, including my two correcting Donuel’s error, have been deleted.

Yet you two, with occasional contributions from others, have been continually kicking lumps out of each other since post #3 on 5th January, without any action, or even comment, from ‘Da Management’.

Strange how my two posts on the Trump thread were viewed as ‘bickering’ and justified the closure of the thread, yet a nine-month-long running feud involving regular insults in this thread goes on unchecked.

Does anyone understand the reason(s) for the apparently-double moderational standards here?

15 Sep 23 - 07:17 AM (#4189194)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"But I always remember that this is social media and the people who post are mostly old lonely guys who sound more bitter than they may actually be."

More abject nonsense.

You have had many instances of Dave, Backwoodsman and Steve referring to their long standing partners, for myself I have enjoyed a happy and healthy relationship with my wife for almost 45 years.

15 Sep 23 - 07:17 AM (#4181686)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"But I always remember that this is social media and the people who post are mostly old lonely guys who sound more bitter than they may actually be."

More abject nonsense.

You have had many instances of Dave, Backwoodsman and Steve referring to their long standing partners, for myself I have enjoyed a happy and healthy relationship with my wife for almost 45 years.

15 Sep 23 - 07:36 AM (#4181688)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I do admit to being old, Raggy, but ‘lonely’, or ‘bitter’? Nah!

15 Sep 23 - 07:36 AM (#4189349)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I do admit to being old, Raggy, but ‘lonely’, or ‘bitter’? Nah!

15 Sep 23 - 08:26 AM (#4181692)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

i have nothing to do with moderation and will not bring disagreements from other threads into the bile battle.
I have never monetized my interest in the UI FO phenomenon. Nearly 50 years ago my role was that of a skeptic and held a scientific neutrality regarding a review of hypnosis sessions regarding sightings. The bottom line was that there was no direct evidence but there was indirect experiential evidence. There were signs something was up but when it came down to it there was no there there among MY GROUP of reports. I do not want nonsense to crowd out a rare but possible truth. There are banal branches on the decision tree regarding a genre of claims that are paranormal explanations that I FIND UNBELIEVABLE.

That bias should not enter into the research. Today the NASA chief has basically called an end to the stigma brought against witnesses, They now seek the public's help. There is still a sick and twisted notion that one must seek to destroy a witness as a person. That is ridiculous today but was a common stigmatization 40 years ago.

15 Sep 23 - 08:26 AM (#4189308)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

i have nothing to do with moderation and will not bring disagreements from other threads into the bile battle.
I have never monetized my interest in the UI FO phenomenon. Nearly 50 years ago my role was that of a skeptic and held a scientific neutrality regarding a review of hypnosis sessions regarding sightings. The bottom line was that there was no direct evidence but there was indirect experiential evidence. There were signs something was up but when it came down to it there was no there there among MY GROUP of reports. I do not want nonsense to crowd out a rare but possible truth. There are banal branches on the decision tree regarding a genre of claims that are paranormal explanations that I FIND UNBELIEVABLE.

That bias should not enter into the research. Today the NASA chief has basically called an end to the stigma brought against witnesses, They now seek the public's help. There is still a sick and twisted notion that one must seek to destroy a witness as a person. That is ridiculous today but was a common stigmatization 40 years ago.

15 Sep 23 - 08:39 AM (#4181693)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

What is the "UI FO phenomenon"? Serious question.

15 Sep 23 - 08:39 AM (#4189154)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

What is the "UI FO phenomenon"? Serious question.

15 Sep 23 - 08:44 AM (#4181694)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Today our top physicists are slowly willing to look into UAPs.
Avi Loeb and Weinstien

15 Sep 23 - 08:44 AM (#4189309)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Today our top physicists are slowly willing to look into UAPs.
Avi Loeb and Weinstien

15 Sep 23 - 11:28 AM (#4181702)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Side thought: Perhaps the older stigmatisation of UFO sightings was a cover. Some of those unidentified objects were spy planes or other secret craft .... and not all of them were from Our Side. (It's an old trick. I remember hearing that the persistent rumour that eating carrots helps you see at night was started in WW2 to cover the existence of plane-mounted radar.)

15 Sep 23 - 11:28 AM (#4189415)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

Side thought: Perhaps the older stigmatisation of UFO sightings was a cover. Some of those unidentified objects were spy planes or other secret craft .... and not all of them were from Our Side. (It's an old trick. I remember hearing that the persistent rumour that eating carrots helps you see at night was started in WW2 to cover the existence of plane-mounted radar.)

15 Sep 23 - 04:32 PM (#4181716)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Why are you whingeing about a couple of deleted posts, John? Hundreds of my posts get deleted but I generally whinge only when some other git's equally bad, or worse, posts are left in place. My whinge-to-delete quotient is tiny compared to yours. Suck it up.

And this cobblers:

"Yet you two, with occasional contributions from others, have been continually kicking lumps out of each other since post #3 on 5th January, without any action, or even comment, from ‘Da Management’."

So you want to equate me with that charlatan. With the bloke who posts total bollocks about anything and everything, who never checks his facts. How ironic that you sit back in judgement just like a bad mod, and, in the same post, whinge about a mod who's doing her best, right or wrong. You wouldn't like it if I equated you, a good dog owner, with the people who own XL bullies. So kindly do not equate me with him. I want him to stop posting bollocks all the time, that's all.

15 Sep 23 - 04:32 PM (#4189394)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Why are you whingeing about a couple of deleted posts, John? Hundreds of my posts get deleted but I generally whinge only when some other git's equally bad, or worse, posts are left in place. My whinge-to-delete quotient is tiny compared to yours. Suck it up.

And this cobblers:

"Yet you two, with occasional contributions from others, have been continually kicking lumps out of each other since post #3 on 5th January, without any action, or even comment, from ‘Da Management’."

So you want to equate me with that charlatan. With the bloke who posts total bollocks about anything and everything, who never checks his facts. How ironic that you sit back in judgement just like a bad mod, and, in the same post, whinge about a mod who's doing her best, right or wrong. You wouldn't like it if I equated you, a good dog owner, with the people who own XL bullies. So kindly do not equate me with him. I want him to stop posting bollocks all the time, that's all.

15 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM (#4181718)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I’m not ‘whingeing about a couple of deleted posts’, I’m asking why there are double standards in moderation. Why two posts of mine, which did exactly the same as you claim your many, many posts over a nine month period are doing - challenging Donuel’s garbage - are regarded as ‘bickering’ and used to justify the closing of a thread, whereas a nine-month-long bickering feud between you and Donuel is allowed to continue unabated and uncommented upon.

That’s all. I passed no comment on who’s right or wrong, there is no ‘sitting back in judgment’ in my post, I really don’t give a FF on that score - you’re both as bad as each other AFAIC. He won’t stop trolling you, and you can’t stop responding to it.

And stop bringing dogs and their owners up every time I post something you don’t like. Your cynophobic views are well-known, and you’re not going to succeed in provoking me on that subject.

15 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM (#4189350)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

I’m not ‘whingeing about a couple of deleted posts’, I’m asking why there are double standards in moderation. Why two posts of mine, which did exactly the same as you claim your many, many posts over a nine month period are doing - challenging Donuel’s garbage - are regarded as ‘bickering’ and used to justify the closing of a thread, whereas a nine-month-long bickering feud between you and Donuel is allowed to continue unabated and uncommented upon.

That’s all. I passed no comment on who’s right or wrong, there is no ‘sitting back in judgment’ in my post, I really don’t give a FF on that score - you’re both as bad as each other AFAIC. He won’t stop trolling you, and you can’t stop responding to it.

And stop bringing dogs and their owners up every time I post something you don’t like. Your cynophobic views are well-known, and you’re not going to succeed in provoking me on that subject.

15 Sep 23 - 05:11 PM (#4181720)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I knew you wouldn't like it. As far as I can glean here, the only active mod is Maggie. I have had many a spat with her, but at the end of the day it's not my gig. She has my respect and I think she knows it, in spite of everything. Yes you are whingeing about a couple of deleted posts. I could multiply that by a hundred times in my case if I wanted to play the victim. At the end of the day the best thing to do is to suck it up and the worst thing you can do is to accuse her of double standards when she has to deal with a troublesome bunch of buggers. It's not real life and it's not your gig. Move on.

15 Sep 23 - 05:11 PM (#4189395)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Well I knew you wouldn't like it. As far as I can glean here, the only active mod is Maggie. I have had many a spat with her, but at the end of the day it's not my gig. She has my respect and I think she knows it, in spite of everything. Yes you are whingeing about a couple of deleted posts. I could multiply that by a hundred times in my case if I wanted to play the victim. At the end of the day the best thing to do is to suck it up and the worst thing you can do is to accuse her of double standards when she has to deal with a troublesome bunch of buggers. It's not real life and it's not your gig. Move on.

15 Sep 23 - 06:46 PM (#4181729)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you are damn sure you are the victim here, you can explore legal redress. Or you can protest by boycott. You might even want to invest in a digital forum of your own. Administrator Steve sounds good.

I don't think getting along politely is an option.
If self-control were possible it would have happened by now.
Steve knows he has not been deleted here but he does not know I have repeatedly requested that he not be deleted for specific reasons. That reason is because self-control is unavailable for some people. It is also a record of his vile accusations and torrents of licentious lies.

15 Sep 23 - 06:46 PM (#4189310)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

If you are damn sure you are the victim here, you can explore legal redress. Or you can protest by boycott. You might even want to invest in a digital forum of your own. Administrator Steve sounds good.

I don't think getting along politely is an option.
If self-control were possible it would have happened by now.
Steve knows he has not been deleted here but he does not know I have repeatedly requested that he not be deleted for specific reasons. That reason is because self-control is unavailable for some people. It is also a record of his vile accusations and torrents of licentious lies.

15 Sep 23 - 06:57 PM (#4189311)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am equating self-control with goodwill and good intentions.

15 Sep 23 - 06:57 PM (#4181730)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I am equating self-control with goodwill and good intentions.

15 Sep 23 - 07:34 PM (#4181733)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You are lying and you are talking bollocks.

15 Sep 23 - 07:34 PM (#4189396)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You are lying and you are talking bollocks.

16 Sep 23 - 03:25 AM (#4181745)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I don't think you'll ever stop him posting Bollocks, Steve. The best we can hope for is to limit the nonsense to this thread alone. I keep dipping into it because if was, ostensibly, started for me. I now know that it was actually started as a platform for Don's ramblings. Worth a laugh but little else and, as long as he keeps to here, he isn't doing much damage. Just leave him to it and, when his stranger imaginings spread elsewhere, request that they be moved here.

16 Sep 23 - 03:25 AM (#4189180)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I don't think you'll ever stop him posting Bollocks, Steve. The best we can hope for is to limit the nonsense to this thread alone. I keep dipping into it because if was, ostensibly, started for me. I now know that it was actually started as a platform for Don's ramblings. Worth a laugh but little else and, as long as he keeps to here, he isn't doing much damage. Just leave him to it and, when his stranger imaginings spread elsewhere, request that they be moved here.

16 Sep 23 - 06:23 AM (#4189341)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

The text of the link    “the inventor of the better MRI”    (posted is 14 Sep 23 - 02:52 PM) is misleading as the subject of the TED talk was an optical alternative to MRI and had nothing to do with magnetic resonance.

The talk itself was very interesting although I would have liked more on how the hologram refocuses the light scattered by the body tissues.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 06:23 AM (#4181753)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

The text of the link    “the inventor of the better MRI”    (posted is 14 Sep 23 - 02:52 PM) is misleading as the subject of the TED talk was an optical alternative to MRI and had nothing to do with magnetic resonance.

The talk itself was very interesting although I would have liked more on how the hologram refocuses the light scattered by the body tissues.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 07:59 AM (#4181756)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Yes Doug she even won a Nobel prize for this unintuitive idea.
The hologram works like a filter that unscrambles and undiffuses light to its original beam. It sort of works like an opposite Plinko game.
This almost seems like magic at first look.

Years ago I was in Harvard Square when a young woman explained her work on a real time MRI. That seemed like magic back then, at least it sounded like a Star Trek scanner.

16 Sep 23 - 07:59 AM (#4189312)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Yes Doug she even won a Nobel prize for this unintuitive idea.
The hologram works like a filter that unscrambles and undiffuses light to its original beam. It sort of works like an opposite Plinko game.
This almost seems like magic at first look.

Years ago I was in Harvard Square when a young woman explained her work on a real time MRI. That seemed like magic back then, at least it sounded like a Star Trek scanner.

16 Sep 23 - 08:11 AM (#4181757)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

The hologram works like a filter that unscrambles and undiffuses light to its original beam. It sort of works like an opposite Plinko game.

Yes ... but how? That is what I would have liked to hear more about. I've never heard of Plinko, so it's not much help.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 08:11 AM (#4189342)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

The hologram works like a filter that unscrambles and undiffuses light to its original beam. It sort of works like an opposite Plinko game.

Yes ... but how? That is what I would have liked to hear more about. I've never heard of Plinko, so it's not much help.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 08:20 AM (#4181759)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Since the brain generates its own version of its perception, when a person goes blind, the brain's optical centers can become hyperexcitable and create hallucinations like a boring repetitive movie. Likewise, when a person goes deaf the brain's hearing centers do a similar thing and create hallucinatory music. These reactions occur in about 10% of people who go blind or deaf.
The man who first discovered this had a name that sounds like Bonay.

16 Sep 23 - 08:20 AM (#4189313)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Since the brain generates its own version of its perception, when a person goes blind, the brain's optical centers can become hyperexcitable and create hallucinations like a boring repetitive movie. Likewise, when a person goes deaf the brain's hearing centers do a similar thing and create hallucinatory music. These reactions occur in about 10% of people who go blind or deaf.
The man who first discovered this had a name that sounds like Bonay.

16 Sep 23 - 08:28 AM (#4181761)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

... she even won a Nobel prize for this unintuitive idea.

There's nothing in the Wikipedia page on her about a Nobel prize and she doesn't seem to appear in the list of Nobel laureates in Physics.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 08:28 AM (#4189343)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Doug Chadwick

... she even won a Nobel prize for this unintuitive idea.

There's nothing in the Wikipedia page on her about a Nobel prize and she doesn't seem to appear in the list of Nobel laureates in Physics.

DC

16 Sep 23 - 08:50 AM (#4181763)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

That info is in her TED talk.
PS I never use Wiki. But I have gone there a handful of times.

Since the brain generates its own version of reality, the line between visionary and bollocks depends upon the quality of that brain's generation and interpretation of perception. A curious brain will generate a better interpretation than a lazy brain.

16 Sep 23 - 08:50 AM (#4189314)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

That info is in her TED talk.
PS I never use Wiki. But I have gone there a handful of times.

Since the brain generates its own version of reality, the line between visionary and bollocks depends upon the quality of that brain's generation and interpretation of perception. A curious brain will generate a better interpretation than a lazy brain.

16 Sep 23 - 09:11 AM (#4181765)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

She didn't win a Nobel prize at all, Doug. In the talk, a couple of minutes in, she says

"A technology I spent the early part of my career on enables de-scattering. It's called holography. And it won the Nobel Prize in physics in the 70s, because of the fantastic things it enables you to do with light."

The reality is that (Quoting Britannica.com)

Dennis Gabor, (born June 5, 1900, Budapest, Hung.—died Feb. 8, 1979, London, Eng.), Hungarian-born electrical engineer who won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1971 for his invention of holography, a system of lensless, three-dimensional photography that has many applications.

So, onnce again, Don has half heard or seen something and made the rest up. A curious brain will look into the presented facts for confirmation. A lazy brain will make them up ;-)

16 Sep 23 - 09:11 AM (#4189181)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

She didn't win a Nobel prize at all, Doug. In the talk, a couple of minutes in, she says

"A technology I spent the early part of my career on enables de-scattering. It's called holography. And it won the Nobel Prize in physics in the 70s, because of the fantastic things it enables you to do with light."

The reality is that (Quoting Britannica.com)

Dennis Gabor, (born June 5, 1900, Budapest, Hung.—died Feb. 8, 1979, London, Eng.), Hungarian-born electrical engineer who won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1971 for his invention of holography, a system of lensless, three-dimensional photography that has many applications.

So, onnce again, Don has half heard or seen something and made the rest up. A curious brain will look into the presented facts for confirmation. A lazy brain will make them up ;-)

16 Sep 23 - 09:21 AM (#4181766)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Nailed it, Dave.
As a guy who's had 2 MRIs in the last 3 weeks for separate issues I hope Ms. Jepsen's technology comes online soon so I can do it myself, on my sofa while watching golf on TV.

16 Sep 23 - 09:21 AM (#4189155)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Nailed it, Dave.
As a guy who's had 2 MRIs in the last 3 weeks for separate issues I hope Ms. Jepsen's technology comes online soon so I can do it myself, on my sofa while watching golf on TV.

16 Sep 23 - 09:22 AM (#4181767)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

BTW - You are right in that it is not a 'Better MRI' at all. Even the description of the TED talk says -

"Taking us to the edge of optical physics, Jepsen unveils new technologies that utilize light and sound to track tumors, measure neural activity and could possibly replace the MRI machine with a cheaper, more efficient and wearable system."

So, rather than a 'better MRI' it 'could possibly' (note those words) replace the MRI machine. Does it come as any surprise that Don, once again, has got the wrong end of the stick? My prediction is that he is looking at it a better way than we can possibly understand and we are all idiots for not understanding that :-D

16 Sep 23 - 09:22 AM (#4189182)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

BTW - You are right in that it is not a 'Better MRI' at all. Even the description of the TED talk says -

"Taking us to the edge of optical physics, Jepsen unveils new technologies that utilize light and sound to track tumors, measure neural activity and could possibly replace the MRI machine with a cheaper, more efficient and wearable system."

So, rather than a 'better MRI' it 'could possibly' (note those words) replace the MRI machine. Does it come as any surprise that Don, once again, has got the wrong end of the stick? My prediction is that he is looking at it a better way than we can possibly understand and we are all idiots for not understanding that :-D

16 Sep 23 - 09:28 AM (#4189183)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I hope so too gillymor but, as my previous post says, to date (and bear in mind this talk was 5 years ago) it only 'could possibly' replace the MRI. A more recent article (Dec 2022) says it has not been achieved but it does seem close.

Developing 3D live hologram technology

16 Sep 23 - 09:28 AM (#4181768)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I hope so too gillymor but, as my previous post says, to date (and bear in mind this talk was 5 years ago) it only 'could possibly' replace the MRI. A more recent article (Dec 2022) says it has not been achieved but it does seem close.

Developing 3D live hologram technology

16 Sep 23 - 09:33 AM (#4181769)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

In a nutshell, the 'inventor a better MRI' that won a nobel prize for her work has not invented a better MRI, never won a nobel prize and such a device does not even exist.

Do you wonder why people cannot take you seriously, Don?

16 Sep 23 - 09:33 AM (#4189184)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

In a nutshell, the 'inventor a better MRI' that won a nobel prize for her work has not invented a better MRI, never won a nobel prize and such a device does not even exist.

Do you wonder why people cannot take you seriously, Don?

16 Sep 23 - 09:45 AM (#4181771)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Thanks for the update, Dave. It sounds like someday we may have a real version of Bones McCoy's pocket scanner.
I'm not exactly a Luddite but it seems like we need to do something about an overcrowded planet before we start developing tech that enables people to live longer and longer lives. I take no comfort in the phrase "Oh don't worry about it, technology will take care of it".

16 Sep 23 - 09:45 AM (#4189156)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Thanks for the update, Dave. It sounds like someday we may have a real version of Bones McCoy's pocket scanner.
I'm not exactly a Luddite but it seems like we need to do something about an overcrowded planet before we start developing tech that enables people to live longer and longer lives. I take no comfort in the phrase "Oh don't worry about it, technology will take care of it".

16 Sep 23 - 09:55 AM (#4189157)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Pulled the trigger too soon, I meant to add, look where technology has gotten us so far.

16 Sep 23 - 09:55 AM (#4181772)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor

Pulled the trigger too soon, I meant to add, look where technology has gotten us so far.

16 Sep 23 - 10:18 AM (#4181774)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The brain generates reality from perception. Yes I did mishear the 3 seconds when Nobel prize was mentioned. When people play the game telephone, it doesn't mean they are deliberately lying.
This is proof I am not AI. Unless AI is cleverly lying.

Chance favors the connected mind. Stay connected all.

16 Sep 23 - 10:18 AM (#4189315)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The brain generates reality from perception. Yes I did mishear the 3 seconds when Nobel prize was mentioned. When people play the game telephone, it doesn't mean they are deliberately lying.
This is proof I am not AI. Unless AI is cleverly lying.

Chance favors the connected mind. Stay connected all.

16 Sep 23 - 10:28 AM (#4181776)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

There is a transcript that you can either follow or simply read, Don. It would have made everything clear. Yes, people make mistakes. I often do and, when I find out, I try to correct them. Your cavalier attitude to facts is what is causing the problem here. Your statements, that she has invented a better MRI scanner and won a Nobel prize, are simply wrong. Check your 'facts' before posting is all that anyone is asking.

16 Sep 23 - 10:28 AM (#4189185)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

There is a transcript that you can either follow or simply read, Don. It would have made everything clear. Yes, people make mistakes. I often do and, when I find out, I try to correct them. Your cavalier attitude to facts is what is causing the problem here. Your statements, that she has invented a better MRI scanner and won a Nobel prize, are simply wrong. Check your 'facts' before posting is all that anyone is asking.

16 Sep 23 - 11:03 AM (#4181782)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Who says I can read?

16 Sep 23 - 11:03 AM (#4189316)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Who says I can read?

16 Sep 23 - 11:23 AM (#4189317)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

good guys win
16 Sep 23 - 11:23 AM (#4181788)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

good guys win
16 Sep 23 - 11:24 AM (#4181789)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

How do you get your information if you cannot read?

16 Sep 23 - 11:24 AM (#4189186)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

How do you get your information if you cannot read?

16 Sep 23 - 01:34 PM (#4181791)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Mostly I listen but gun powder rendered the left ear very weak.
Reading requires 2 pair of glasses at once but it can be done.

Billy Crystal enhanced Fernando Lamas paraphrase: "Its better to look good than to see good".

16 Sep 23 - 01:34 PM (#4189318)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Mostly I listen but gun powder rendered the left ear very weak.
Reading requires 2 pair of glasses at once but it can be done.

Billy Crystal enhanced Fernando Lamas paraphrase: "Its better to look good than to see good".

16 Sep 23 - 02:18 PM (#4181797)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You certainly don't listen. Especially when you are told to check your facts before posting.

16 Sep 23 - 02:18 PM (#4189397)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

You certainly don't listen. Especially when you are told to check your facts before posting.

16 Sep 23 - 04:45 PM (#4181806)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

So you can read and hear?

16 Sep 23 - 04:45 PM (#4189187)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

So you can read and hear?

16 Sep 23 - 04:58 PM (#4189188)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

...just not very well? Nothing wrong with that but it does make it even more important to check your facts in case you have misread or misheard something. When you do, as you obviously did with the MRI discussion, just accept that you got it wrong and accept any help you can get.

16 Sep 23 - 04:58 PM (#4181807)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

...just not very well? Nothing wrong with that but it does make it even more important to check your facts in case you have misread or misheard something. When you do, as you obviously did with the MRI discussion, just accept that you got it wrong and accept any help you can get.

16 Sep 23 - 07:06 PM (#4181812)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Hell will freeze over first.

16 Sep 23 - 07:06 PM (#4189398)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Hell will freeze over first.

17 Sep 23 - 07:17 PM (#4181852)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes.
There are many inverse relationships like Supply and demand and time versus distance traveled. Far from being purely theoretical, inverse relationships exist in most systems that affect our day to day lives. There is a well-described inverse relationship between trolls and their target.

17 Sep 23 - 07:17 PM (#4189319)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes.
There are many inverse relationships like Supply and demand and time versus distance traveled. Far from being purely theoretical, inverse relationships exist in most systems that affect our day to day lives. There is a well-described inverse relationship between trolls and their target.

17 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4181853)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Then do describe it for us.

17 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4189399)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Then do describe it for us.

17 Sep 23 - 08:55 PM (#4181857)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Trolls 101

17 Sep 23 - 08:55 PM (#4189320)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Trolls 101

17 Sep 23 - 08:58 PM (#4181859)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Absolutely not an answer to the question I asked.

17 Sep 23 - 08:58 PM (#4189400)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Absolutely not an answer to the question I asked.

17 Sep 23 - 09:34 PM (#4181861)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Light is weird. It does not interact with itself.
Illuminating light

what if dark matter has anti-photons that do not interact with baryonic matter?

17 Sep 23 - 09:34 PM (#4189322)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Light is weird. It does not interact with itself.
Illuminating light

what if dark matter has anti-photons that do not interact with baryonic matter?

17 Sep 23 - 10:23 PM (#4189323)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our living Einstien
He does not believe in inflation either.

17 Sep 23 - 10:23 PM (#4181862)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Our living Einstien
He does not believe in inflation either.

18 Sep 23 - 05:45 AM (#4181871)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes."

More abject nonsense.

Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it.

18 Sep 23 - 05:45 AM (#4189195)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

"Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes."

More abject nonsense.

Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it.

18 Sep 23 - 05:52 AM (#4181872)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What is the new Physics? String theory is a subset of quantum mechanics. There are attempts to reinvent space-time in hopes of a breakthrough. Then there is Twistor physics that sort of inverts our model of the universe giving a new perspective and a more simple mathematical approach. Finally the pan psychic consciousness model of the universe is gaining more respect.

18 Sep 23 - 05:52 AM (#4189324)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What is the new Physics? String theory is a subset of quantum mechanics. There are attempts to reinvent space-time in hopes of a breakthrough. Then there is Twistor physics that sort of inverts our model of the universe giving a new perspective and a more simple mathematical approach. Finally the pan psychic consciousness model of the universe is gaining more respect.

18 Sep 23 - 06:25 AM (#4189325)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A split second sprite caught on film

18 Sep 23 - 06:25 AM (#4181879)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

A split second sprite caught on film

18 Sep 23 - 07:53 AM (#4189416)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing
> temperatures there, if you can locate it.

* An article exists somewhere-or-other, and in various mutant forms, on a thermodynamics essay on "Deduce the temperature of Hell from first principles". The NSFW coda is a late addition.

* Satre: "Hell is other people." There's a related Asimov short story. Deducing the location and temperature is left as an exercise.

* My own contribution: it's the temperature of a barn dance at a hillbilly music festival on a summer's evening. The music I can tolerate, but I've got three left feet.

18 Sep 23 - 07:53 AM (#4181887)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk

> Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing
> temperatures there, if you can locate it.

* An article exists somewhere-or-other, and in various mutant forms, on a thermodynamics essay on "Deduce the temperature of Hell from first principles". The NSFW coda is a late addition.

* Satre: "Hell is other people." There's a related Asimov short story. Deducing the location and temperature is left as an exercise.

* My own contribution: it's the temperature of a barn dance at a hillbilly music festival on a summer's evening. The music I can tolerate, but I've got three left feet.

18 Sep 23 - 08:24 AM (#4181890)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I think Venus is hell. It's bright as hell and hot as Hades.
Besides it's cloudy ALL the time.

18 Sep 23 - 08:24 AM (#4189326)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I think Venus is hell. It's bright as hell and hot as Hades.
Besides it's cloudy ALL the time.

18 Sep 23 - 10:28 AM (#4181894)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

You think a lot of things Don, however if your recent form is anything to go by most of them are erroneous.

Now, perhaps you will answer my question "Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it."

18 Sep 23 - 10:28 AM (#4189196)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

You think a lot of things Don, however if your recent form is anything to go by most of them are erroneous.

Now, perhaps you will answer my question "Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it."

19 Sep 23 - 10:07 AM (#4181966)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Hell is inside malignant narcissists who think the world deserves their vengeance.

19 Sep 23 - 10:07 AM (#4189327)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Hell is inside malignant narcissists who think the world deserves their vengeance.

19 Sep 23 - 12:45 PM (#4181989)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Examples of such people, please, unless your courage has deserted you again...

19 Sep 23 - 12:45 PM (#4189402)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Examples of such people, please, unless your courage has deserted you again...

19 Sep 23 - 02:14 PM (#4182001)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can think of one, Steve. Self obsessed. Thinks he is God's gift to science. Posts misinformation all the time. Will never admit he is wrong. Inflicts his world view on everyone here and calls those who disagree idiots or narcissists. Can't name names of course ;-)

19 Sep 23 - 02:14 PM (#4189189)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

I can think of one, Steve. Self obsessed. Thinks he is God's gift to science. Posts misinformation all the time. Will never admit he is wrong. Inflicts his world view on everyone here and calls those who disagree idiots or narcissists. Can't name names of course ;-)

19 Sep 23 - 02:39 PM (#4182002)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Don... Don...

Donald Trump, Dave?

Mind you, don't know about Trump and the science bit....Let me think who else might fit the bill...

Oh, wait...

19 Sep 23 - 02:39 PM (#4189403)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Don... Don...

Donald Trump, Dave?

Mind you, don't know about Trump and the science bit....Let me think who else might fit the bill...

Oh, wait...

19 Sep 23 - 03:14 PM (#4182004)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

One of his favoUrite female aids called him a malignant narcissist.

19 Sep 23 - 03:14 PM (#4189328)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

One of his favoUrite female aids called him a malignant narcissist.

19 Sep 23 - 06:02 PM (#4189329)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The new microbe, a cyanobacterium, was discovered in September in volcanic seeps near the Italian island of Vulcano, where the water contains high levels of CO2. The researchers said the bug turned CO2 into biomass faster than any other known cyanobacteria.

19 Sep 23 - 06:02 PM (#4182018)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The new microbe, a cyanobacterium, was discovered in September in volcanic seeps near the Italian island of Vulcano, where the water contains high levels of CO2. The researchers said the bug turned CO2 into biomass faster than any other known cyanobacteria.

19 Sep 23 - 06:11 PM (#4182022)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Underground microbes can trap CO2. underground CO2 eating microbes

19 Sep 23 - 06:11 PM (#4189330)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Underground microbes can trap CO2. underground CO2 eating microbes

19 Sep 23 - 07:02 PM (#4182028)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I know Vulcano well. We've been to the summit (it's about 1600 feet) and we've relaxed by its famous, stinking mud pool, declining to enter it, unlike lots of other people there. There is much sulphurous effusion going on at the top. Fumaroles and stuff. Scary in several places. It's been out of bounds for several years due to increased volcanic activity. It's last eruption was in the late 1880s and it was quite devastating. Try to ascend it and you could be fined €500. There's a lot going on round there on land and at sea, most of it excitingly smelly. It doesn't have a great reputation as a good place for a holiday. You can see Stromboli from the summit and the view is glorious. We stayed on the next-door island of Lipari. Quite a lot of the film Il Postino was made on Salina, another close-by island, which produces the best capers in the world. Go and have a look, and don't let the microbes bite you. Another volcano famous for a microbe is La Solfatara at Pozzuoli, near Naples. Geysers, hot springs and hot mud pools are fertile ground for looking for thermophilic bacteria, and one was discovered new to science at Solfatara. I've been there too and it's mightily impressive with its bubbling mud, hot ground and fierce fumaroles. You can't go there any more either, following a tragic accident there in 2017 in which a young boy and his parents died after an unfenced part of the crater floor collapsed. Solfatara is in the large caldera called the Campi Flegrei, or the Fiery Fields, just a few miles from Naples and Vesuvius (been up there too!). It's a supervolcano that's been on high alert for several years following an increase in ground uplift and other seismic activity.

19 Sep 23 - 07:02 PM (#4189404)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I know Vulcano well. We've been to the summit (it's about 1600 feet) and we've relaxed by its famous, stinking mud pool, declining to enter it, unlike lots of other people there. There is much sulphurous effusion going on at the top. Fumaroles and stuff. Scary in several places. It's been out of bounds for several years due to increased volcanic activity. It's last eruption was in the late 1880s and it was quite devastating. Try to ascend it and you could be fined €500. There's a lot going on round there on land and at sea, most of it excitingly smelly. It doesn't have a great reputation as a good place for a holiday. You can see Stromboli from the summit and the view is glorious. We stayed on the next-door island of Lipari. Quite a lot of the film Il Postino was made on Salina, another close-by island, which produces the best capers in the world. Go and have a look, and don't let the microbes bite you. Another volcano famous for a microbe is La Solfatara at Pozzuoli, near Naples. Geysers, hot springs and hot mud pools are fertile ground for looking for thermophilic bacteria, and one was discovered new to science at Solfatara. I've been there too and it's mightily impressive with its bubbling mud, hot ground and fierce fumaroles. You can't go there any more either, following a tragic accident there in 2017 in which a young boy and his parents died after an unfenced part of the crater floor collapsed. Solfatara is in the large caldera called the Campi Flegrei, or the Fiery Fields, just a few miles from Naples and Vesuvius (been up there too!). It's a supervolcano that's been on high alert for several years following an increase in ground uplift and other seismic activity.

19 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4189405)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Grrr. Damned rogue apostrophe's...

19 Sep 23 - 07:57 PM (#4182033)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Grrr. Damned rogue apostrophe's...

19 Sep 23 - 08:40 PM (#4182035)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

OK Don, for the third time of asking can you please provide a sensible answer to my response to your post below.

"Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes."

More abject nonsense.

Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it.

19 Sep 23 - 08:40 PM (#4189197)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

OK Don, for the third time of asking can you please provide a sensible answer to my response to your post below.

"Strangely enough the hotter the Earth is, the colder Hell becomes."

More abject nonsense.

Can you locate hell for us, have you any evidence of the changing temperatures there, if you can locate it.

20 Sep 23 - 08:05 AM (#4182065)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Good post from Steve's 1st hand observation of Vulcano.

I can not even locate Raggytash's sense of humor.

20 Sep 23 - 08:05 AM (#4189331)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Good post from Steve's 1st hand observation of Vulcano.

I can not even locate Raggytash's sense of humor.

20 Sep 23 - 09:29 AM (#4182069)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

So, yet another example of you posting utter nonsense, another feeble attempt to try to baffle with bullshit.

No surprise really.

20 Sep 23 - 09:29 AM (#4189198)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Raggytash

So, yet another example of you posting utter nonsense, another feeble attempt to try to baffle with bullshit.

No surprise really.

20 Sep 23 - 07:12 PM (#4182107)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What's feeble about Steve's post other than no mention of the miracle microbes?

20 Sep 23 - 07:12 PM (#4189332)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

What's feeble about Steve's post other than no mention of the miracle microbes?

20 Sep 23 - 07:20 PM (#4182108)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just knock it off, you little shit, and answer Raggytash, why don't you.

20 Sep 23 - 07:20 PM (#4189406)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Just knock it off, you little shit, and answer Raggytash, why don't you.

21 Sep 23 - 06:03 AM (#4182121)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 07:06 PM

Hell will freeze over first.
============================

Perhaps your scatological remarks have more to do with old ethnic hatreds than science.https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

21 Sep 23 - 06:03 AM (#4189333)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 07:06 PM

Hell will freeze over first.
============================

Perhaps your scatological remarks have more to do with old ethnic hatreds than science.https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

21 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM (#4189334)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The psychology of hate: Moral concerns differentiate hate from dislike

21 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM (#4182122)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

The psychology of hate: Moral concerns differentiate hate from dislike

21 Sep 23 - 06:59 AM (#4182124)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I thought you were supposed to be a psychologist. That link is completely irrelevant. Now answer Raggytash or just promise us that you'll never post throwaway bullshit ever again, toe-rag. Speaking of irrelevance, there's nothing "scatalogical" about calling you a shit.

21 Sep 23 - 06:59 AM (#4189407)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

I thought you were supposed to be a psychologist. That link is completely irrelevant. Now answer Raggytash or just promise us that you'll never post throwaway bullshit ever again, toe-rag. Speaking of irrelevance, there's nothing "scatalogical" about calling you a shit.

21 Sep 23 - 07:28 AM (#4182126)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm not anything except curious, concerned, and contemporary.
You guys are ambassadors whether you know it or not. 70-year-old hooligans and trolls are not a good look for the UK. We also have our version of rednecks. Even worse we have Trump fanatics.

a brain mechanism for hate

21 Sep 23 - 07:28 AM (#4189335)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

I'm not anything except curious, concerned, and contemporary.
You guys are ambassadors whether you know it or not. 70-year-old hooligans and trolls are not a good look for the UK. We also have our version of rednecks. Even worse we have Trump fanatics.

a brain mechanism for hate

21 Sep 23 - 07:30 AM (#4182127)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Still bickering then…??

21 Sep 23 - 07:30 AM (#4189351)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Still bickering then…??

21 Sep 23 - 07:50 AM (#4182128)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Asking you to take responsibility for your posts is neither hooliganism nor trolling. The closest to trolling here, though not quite there, is someone with nothing to say accusing us of "bickering."

21 Sep 23 - 07:50 AM (#4189408)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw

Asking you to take responsibility for your posts is neither hooliganism nor trolling. The closest to trolling here, though not quite there, is someone with nothing to say accusing us of "bickering."

21 Sep 23 - 07:51 AM (#4182129)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

John, when someone comes to a place you like and starts to shit all over it, it is not bickering to a) ask them to clean it up and b) complain. I know you will say just ignore it but, like shit, it starts to stink after a while and someone has to do something.

21 Sep 23 - 07:51 AM (#4189190)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome

John, when someone comes to a place you like and starts to shit all over it, it is not bickering to a) ask them to clean it up and b) complain. I know you will say just ignore it but, like shit, it starts to stink after a while and someone has to do something.

21 Sep 23 - 08:12 AM (#4189352)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Dave - Cleaning it up is the Mods’ job. It’s you lot’s bickering that’s making the place stink. Why do you think so many former posters stay away nowadays? They haven’t all died, I suspect many are still around, but I also suspect that, like me, they’re sick to death of a small number of posters dominating threads with their ad nauseam bickering.

Steve - you’re one of the main bickerers. Know thyself. (Virtually no chance of that, I know).

21 Sep 23 - 08:12 AM (#4182130)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman

Dave - Cleaning it up is the Mods’ job. It’s you lot’s bickering that’s making the place stink. Why do you think so many former posters stay away nowadays? They haven’t all died, I suspect many are still around, but I also suspect that, like me, they’re sick to death of a small number of posters dominating threads with their ad nauseam bickering.

Steve - you’re one of the main bickerers. Know thyself. (Virtually no chance of that, I know).

21 Sep 23 - 08:32 AM (#4182132)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

See? Closure of this thread is the goal
of the indecent despite my including interesting links.
Good people could always include science links that are interesting to them.

Perhaps the most compelling link on Mudcat now is Sandra from Sydney's link to a half a million-year-old wooden structure.

Considering who started the thread and who keeps coming back to argue, there are no innocent parties in the demise of yet another thread. ---mudelf

21 Sep 23 - 08:32 AM (#4189337)
Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel

See? Closure of this thread is the goal
of the indecent despite my including interesting links.
Good people could always include science links that are interesting to them.

Perhaps the most compelling link on Mudcat now is Sandra from Sydney's link to a half a million-year-old wooden structure.

Considering who started the thread and who keeps coming back to argue, there are no innocent parties in the demise of yet another thread. ---mudelf