|
08 Oct 24 - 08:01 PM (#4209468) Subject: ADD: Old New Mexico From: Lighter In his book "Foot Loose in the West" (1932), the prolific writer (and adventurer) Charles J. Finger (1869-1941) mentions a song he'd heard while living in southwest Texas around 1899. The tune, he writes, was "curiously compounded of 'Auld Lang Syne' and 'Jock the Jolly Ploughboy." It was, Finger notes, "once very popular in the days when one could ride from San Antonio to Douglas, Arizona, without having to dismount to open gate." OLD NEW MEXICO “I found myself in Griffin in the spring of ’83 When a noted cow-driver one day came up to me. Says: ‘How d’ye do, young fellow, and how’d you like to go And spend the summer pleasantly out in New Mexico?’ “I being out of employment to the driver I did say, ‘Me going out to Mexico depends upon the pay; But if you pay good wages and transportation to and fro I guess I’ll go along of you to old New Mexico.’ “Of course I pay good wages, and transportation too, Provided that you stay with me the whole long summer through, And if e’er you get all homesick and want to Griffin go I’ll even lend a horse to go from old New Mexico.’ “With all this flattering talk the man enlisted quite a few, Some ten or twelve in number, and clever fellows too. Our trip was right smart pleasant and we were glad to go. Until we reached old Boggy Creek out in New Mexico. “Right there our pleasure ended, and troubles soon began. The first hail storm that hit us sent the cattle on the run. In riding through the cactus we had but little show, And Indians watched to shoot us on the hills of Mexico. “The summer season ended, the driver could not pay. The outfit cost so heavy, he was in debt, I’ll lay. We saw the game was bankrupt, and knew we wouldn’t go To leave our bones to whiten there in old New Mexico. “So now we’ll cross old Boggy Creek, and homeward we are bound, No more in this tough country we’ll evermore be found. We’re going to wives and sweethearts to tell them not to go To that god-forsaken country they call New Mexico.” A few other texts are worth giving: none were accompanied by tunes. 'Catters will recognize Woody Guthrie's use of "Griffin" in his version of "The Buffalo Skinners," this song's immediate progenitor. |
|
09 Oct 24 - 08:41 AM (#4209500) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: Lighter W. P. Webb heard it in Uvalde, Texas ( “Miscellany of Texas Folk-Lore,” in J. Frank Dobie, ed., Coffee in the Gourd (Austin: Texas Folk-Lore Society, 1923), p. 45. This is the earliest text in print: As I rode in the town of Fort Griffin in the spring of ’83, An old Texas cowman came riding up to me, Saying, “How do you do, young fellow. And how would you like to go And spend one summer season in the hills of Mexico?” “It’s being out of employment,” to the drover I did say, “For me to go to New Mexico depends upon the pay. But if you pay good wages and transportation too, I wouldn’t mind to go along and spend a month or two.” “Oh, yes, we pay good wages, free transportation too, But if you get homesick, Fort Griffin bound to go, [line missing I’ll never loan you a horse to ride from the hills of Mexico." “O listen to that old driver’s talk, O listen what a gag.” It’s ten or twenty cowboys, all stout able-bodied men. Our trip it was a pleasant one ------ Until we reached old Boggus Creek out in old Mexico. Now our pleasures have all ended and our troubles have begun. The first hailstorm we had on us, Gosh, how those cattle run. They run through thorns and thickets, our lives they had no show, For there’s no worse hell on earth than the hills of Mexico. [lines missing Go home to wives and sweethearts, tell others not to go To the God-forsaken country of old New Mexico. Fort Griffin, in north-central Texas, was established as a cavalry post in 1867. The town of that name sprang up nearby and gained an unusually violent reputation. It quickly began to fade after the fort was closed in 1881. |
|
09 Oct 24 - 09:11 AM (#4209501) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: GUEST The meter and internal rhyme reminds me of the song about THE BUFFALO !?? |
|
09 Oct 24 - 09:19 AM (#4209502) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: gillymor Sounds like a variation of "Hills of Mexico" (or vice versa) along with a theme from "Buffalo Skinners" thrown in. |
|
09 Oct 24 - 09:52 AM (#4209506) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: Lighter Roscoe Holcomb of Daisy, Ky., ca1960: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XsObAmEJQ A great trad performance of an unfortunately inferior text. Holcomb's tune isn't much like that of Lomax's "The Buffalo Skinners" (which is kin to "Joe Bowers"/ "Lily of the West"/ "I'm a Good Old Rebel.") |
|
09 Oct 24 - 02:04 PM (#4209524) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: Lighter I chose the title "Boggy Creek," because that's the title in Lomax & Lomax. "The Hills of Mexico," however, is more appropriate. J. Evetts Haley, “Cowboy Songs Again,” in J. Frank Dobie, ed., "Texas and Southwestern Lore" (1927): THE HILLS OF MEXICO I found myself in Griffin in the spring of ’83, When a noted cow driver one morning came to me. Says: ‘How do you do, young fellow? Say, how’d you like to go And spend one summer pleasantly out in New Mexico?’ I being out of employment, to the driver thus did say: “A-going out in New Mexico depends upon the pay. If you pay to me good wages, transportation to and fro, I believe I’ll go along with you out in New Mexico.” “Of course I’ll pay good wages, and transportation, too, Provided that you stay with me the summer season through. But if you do get homesick, and want to Griffin go, I will even loan you a horse to ride from the hills of Mexico.” With all this flattering talk he enlisted quite a train, Some ten or twelve in number, ‘strong, able-bodied men. Our trip was quite a pleasant one, over the road we had to go, Until we reached old Boggy Creek out in New Mexico. Right there our pleasures ended—our troubles then begun; The first hailstorm that came on us, Christ, how those cattle run! In running through thorns and stickers we had but little show, And the Indians watched to pick us off of the hills of Mexico. The summer season ended, the driver could not pay. The outfit was so extravagant he was in debt today. That’s bankrupt law among the cowboys. Christ, this will never do. That’s why we left his bones to bleach out in New Mexico. So, now, we’ll cross old Boggy Creek and homeward we are bound; No more in this cursed country will ever we be found. Go home to our wives and sweethearts—tell others not to go To that God-forsaken country they call New Mexico.” The Lomaxes (1938) print a very similar text, titled “Boggy Creek,” “from H. Knight, Sterling Texas.” Knight’s version includes a come-all-ye opening: Come all you old-time cowboys and listen to my song, But do not grow weary, I will not detain you long; It is concerning some cowboys who did agree to go To spend one summer pleasantly on the trail to Mexico. Haley adds: "Among the songs which found life along the Goodnight-Loving Trail worthy of perpetuation is one called ‘The Hills of Mexico.' No mention of the name of the trail is made in the song but there are two geographical references which make the route certain. The driver started his herd from Fort Griffin, and the cowboy tells of his troubles upon Boggy Creek, more generally known as the Delaware, which flows into the Pecos in southern New Mexico. And it was while driving over this Goodnight-Loving Trail with a cowman from Mason County, in the early eighties, that [Haley's source] James Mullens [of Roswell, N.M.] learned the ballad." |
|
12 Oct 24 - 02:32 PM (#4209694) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: Lighter This is the final independent text I've seen. Rose P. White, “Cowboy Humor,” New Mexico Folklore Record (1948): THE HILLS OF MEXICO “It was in the town of Griffin In the year of ’83, When an old cow-puncher stepped up, And this he said to me: ‘Howdy do, young feller, And how’d you like to go And spend a pleasant summer Out in New Mexico?’ “I being out of employment, To the puncher I did say: ‘Depends upon the wages, That you will have to pay; You pay to me good wages And transportation too, And I think that I will go with you One summer season through “We left the town of Griffin In the merry month of May. The flowers were all blooming, And everything seemed gay. Our trip it was a pleasure, The road we had to go, Until we reached old Boggy [sic] Out in New Mexico. “It was there our pleasures ended, And troubles then begun. The first hailstorm come on us, Oh, how those cattle run! Through mesquite, thorns, and thickets We cowboys had to go, While the Indians watched our picket Out in New Mexico. “And when the drive was over, The foreman wouldn’t pay. To all of you good people, This much I have to say: With guns and rifles in our hands, I’ll have you all to know, We left his bones to bleach upon The hills of Mexico. [sic] “And now the drive is over, And homeward we are bound. No more in this damned old country Will ever I be found. Back to friends and loved ones And tell them not to go To the God-forsaken country They call New Mexico.” |
|
12 Oct 24 - 04:58 PM (#4209697) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: gillymor Hills of Mexico by The Renegades, with some excellent fiddling by James Leva. From the lyrics it sounds like their version originated in Arkansas. |
|
12 Oct 24 - 07:41 PM (#4209705) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek From: Lighter Thanks much for that link. YouTube has several excellent-to-great neo-trad renditions, some with newly added lyrics. Most are called "The Hills of Mexico" but some are "Mexican Cowboy." By "neo-trad" I mean in an old-time style with occasional but tasteful modern riffs and with new lyrics phrased in a believable old-time idiom. Then there's the folk-rock version by Bob Dylan and the Band in 1967. All these versions were ultimately inspired by Roscoe Holcomb. Without him, the song would now be virtually unknown. Now I can't get the damn thing out of my head! |
|
14 Oct 24 - 09:08 AM (#4209790) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek NM (in Buffalo Skinners) From: Lighter Hey, Joe! They're cowboys, not buffalo hunters! Different song!
|
|
14 Oct 24 - 11:05 AM (#4209793) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek NM (in Buffalo Skinners) From: gillymor Mexican Cowboy by Willie Watson. The lyrics are similar to Holcomb's but he throws in a verse from Diamond Joe, with some kickass clawhammer banjo. |
|
14 Oct 24 - 11:50 AM (#4209798) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek NM (in Buffalo Skinners) From: cnd Gilly -- I had a chance to talk to Watson at Merlefest a couple years ago and he confirmed it is based off Holcomb's version, but that it needed another set of lines. (see link) -- Watson's Mexican Cowboy lyrics are also two posts upthread there. |
|
14 Oct 24 - 12:13 PM (#4209803) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek (Hills of Mexico) From: gillymor Thanks for sharing that. I'd forgotten about that conversation. |
|
14 Oct 24 - 05:21 PM (#4209830) Subject: RE: Boggy Creek (Hills of Mexico) From: Lighter I've just listened again to Guthrie's version of "Buffalo Skinners." It's a strange hybrid of that song and this one, with lines about the "buffalo range" as well as cowboys and cattle. It even includes "Griffin." Guthrie's tune is related to Holcomb's. He recorded "Buffalo Skinners" in 1945. |