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21 Apr 25 - 09:10 AM (#4221348) Subject: BS: Pope Francis has died From: keberoxu The Pope died after midnight, so he lived long enough to experience his last Easter Sunday. After he left that clinic, his doctors ordered him to rest, and he didn't rest, so he pushed himself too far. I guess that is the way that he wanted to go, being before the people and working. |
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21 Apr 25 - 09:33 AM (#4221352) Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis has died From: keberoxu The press articles gave a brief description of camerlengo, and the duties that go with that temporary post. It sounded as though this person kept the Church running until the conclave that selected the next pope. Tellingly, the current camerlengo is the first American to hold the post. |
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21 Apr 25 - 10:40 AM (#4221355) Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis has died From: Stilly River Sage What a horrible last day, to have had to sit in the same room with the U.S VP Vance. That would take a toll on anyone. |
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21 Apr 25 - 11:25 AM (#4221357) Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis has died From: Mary G I was just in Italy and took a bus tour past the Vatican. I think it is time for new blood and the next conclave should be interesting. I, without knowing enough but that never stops me, am interested in Cardinal Taigle of the Philippines. He seems like a good candidate. I struggle to be a halfway OK catholic. don't quite succeed. I figure I am only half catholic because my mother was protestant but converted. Otherwise I probaby go back to st. patrick, and irish catholicism has a different route than other constantine based origins. Anyway, i want an option of a latin mass, better music, (the old kind), approval if not mandation of birth control, married and women and both priests, cardinals and popes. |
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21 Apr 25 - 11:39 AM (#4221360) Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis has died From: MaJoC the Filk The best bit of the UK TV coverage this afternoon has been seeing the interview from Westminster Cathedral with two top English Cardinals. It was a positive relief to hear interviewees sounding like *people* for once. |
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21 Apr 25 - 12:57 PM (#4221365) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: robomatic My respects. It was a sad surprise but really not a surprise. I've been moved many times by his particular acts and graciousness. I only leanred about it from this post which I've just read, so thank you, Keb. |
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21 Apr 25 - 03:22 PM (#4221380) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Mrrzy I rather liked this particular pope, as popes go. |
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21 Apr 25 - 03:50 PM (#4221388) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Stilly River Sage Cause of death was reported pretty quickly, a headline said it was a stroke followed by the circulatory system collapse. I suppose if there was much of a delay in the announcement rumors would arise. |
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21 Apr 25 - 05:28 PM (#4221396) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Beer He was a good man and representative of the Catholic Church. |
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21 Apr 25 - 08:40 PM (#4221407) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel He was a far better man than the Pope who resigned during the Vatican Bank scandal and continued to live at the Vatican while Pope Francis lived outside the Vatican at a nearby Basilica. |
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22 Apr 25 - 02:37 AM (#4221413) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: The Sandman stilly , I agree , anyone who has to sit in the same room as an ex member of the KKK HAD A SAD ENDING |
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22 Apr 25 - 04:42 AM (#4221419) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/04/21/jd-vance-pope-francis-meeting/ |
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22 Apr 25 - 05:27 AM (#4221423) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel Keb, are you suggesting that convert Vance and his wife poisoned the Pope and has a select American to influence the Conclave? |
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22 Apr 25 - 06:00 AM (#4221426) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Jack Campin There was a video on FB of Vance's audience. The Pope gave him a present for his kids - a package of Kinder Eggs. Which are illegal in the US. Francis was one of the good guys. |
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22 Apr 25 - 06:32 AM (#4221428) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: weerover Just a day after I finished reading "Conclave" by Robert Harris. |
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22 Apr 25 - 07:56 AM (#4221432) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel Conclave was very good. |
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26 Apr 25 - 09:18 AM (#4221628) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: keberoxu The funeral is over and Pope Francis has been laid to rest in the basilica, I think it is, of Santa Maria Maggiore, in Rome. |
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27 Apr 25 - 03:15 PM (#4221688) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: robomatic I watched the movie "Conclave" a month or so ago. Well cast, well acted, but emotionally I'm more of a "Shoes of the Fisherman" sort. Nevertheless, Pope Francis will exert posthumous influence which we'll understand more better through his selections to the College of Cardinals. |
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28 Apr 25 - 04:56 AM (#4221716) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Rapparee We were at Knock, a Marian shrine, when our tour leader found out. I’d picked it up on the web as we traveled along. My personal opinion is the Francis died of his allergy to pretentiousness. |
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30 Apr 25 - 06:09 PM (#4221883) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: keberoxu They have set the date for the conclave, I think it is a week from today. And the politicking is starting in the assemblies already, and there are cardinals making statements to the press even. |
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30 Apr 25 - 08:11 PM (#4221889) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Nigel Parsons requiscat in pace Generally, it seems, a good man! R.I.P. |
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03 May 25 - 08:56 AM (#4221961) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel Black smoke-no consensus, white smoke a Cardinal got a plurality of votes. Red smoke, a Cardinal was incinerated. |
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04 May 25 - 04:11 AM (#4222007) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Joe Offer I hope that whenever Donuel posts, he's posting misinformation. It's just not worth the energy to post fact checks on him. But it takes a 2/3 supermajority for white smoke to appear, not a mere plurality. |
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04 May 25 - 08:09 AM (#4222013) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Nigel Parsons Never mind supermajority'. 'Plurality' doesn't even (necessarily) mean a majority. It just means more than anyone else. If there are 5 people in the running a majority has to be 50%+. A plurality can be as low as 20%+. |
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07 May 25 - 08:35 AM (#4222167) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Sandra in Sydney schisms in the catholic church??? something to read while the world awaits for the the white smoke? Bad Faith by Kathryn Joyce, VAnity Fair, October 2024 From exiled actors to academics, influencers to intellectuals, VF gets under the hood of the Catholic rights celebrity conversion industrial complex. ... Since his election in 2013, Pope Francis—the first non-European pope in more than 1,200 years—has faced bitter opposition. His early calls for Catholics to lessen their “obsessive” focus on sexual issues marked him as a liberal to conservative critics; his emphasis on poverty and the environment proved him a “Marxist globalist” for the same crowd. Cardinals issued formal dubia (demands for clarification); clergy called for his resignation; some declared him an “antipope”; some prayed for his death. As the divisions reached a fever pitch in 2020, they mapped neatly onto American politics, pitting “bad Catholics” Joe Biden and Pope Francis against Trump (the non-Catholic) and the faithful remnant. Trump’s campaign recognized as much, bypassing Church bishops to court Catholics through non-establishment leaders, including many on the “radical traditionalist” fringe ... |
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07 May 25 - 07:23 PM (#4222215) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Stilly River Sage Only black smoke on the first puff from the portable chimney. |
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08 May 25 - 12:24 PM (#4222271) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Stilly River Sage The white smoke appeared this evening, we await the name of the new one. All I can say is that it will be a man. Probably a white man. |
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08 May 25 - 01:16 PM (#4222275) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Stilly River Sage Wow - a first - an American Pope. Cardinal Robert Prevost from Chicago. |
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08 May 25 - 01:30 PM (#4222277) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Backwoodsman He’s a Bigly Pope. How long before The Fat Orange Buffoon in the White House tries to claim credit for getting him elected? ;-) |
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08 May 25 - 02:29 PM (#4222281) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Donuel From: Donuel - PM Date: 22 Apr 25 - 05:27 AM Keb, are you suggesting that convert Vance and his wife poisoned the Pope and has a select American to influence the Conclave? Keb, you win the Grand Pope Prize, you should write the book. It should sell as well as Angels and Demons. |
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08 May 25 - 07:05 PM (#4222297) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis has died (1936-2025) From: Stilly River Sage I read an interesting account of the new pope being a jazz trombonist, but then in the remarks the author made the suggestion that it was something made up from Chat GPT and the guy was running a "social experiment." If it turns out to be accurate I'll undelete the new thread i originally put up (a Pope who fit into the Mudcat scene!), but in the meantime, lets see what turns up about the interests of the new Pope from Chicago. |
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08 May 25 - 09:19 PM (#4222304) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: robomatic i have been told he's a Cubs fan. |
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08 May 25 - 09:41 PM (#4222305) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: robomatic according to NBC, they texted the answer was his preference was White Sox. So at least He's a Chicago homie. |
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09 May 25 - 12:10 AM (#4222307) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Joe Offer Please take a listen to the Senior Gossip Columnist for the Vatican Enquirer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRVuB5exLM |
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09 May 25 - 02:20 AM (#4222308) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman He’s younger than me. Suddenly I feel very old… |
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09 May 25 - 08:55 AM (#4222318) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: gillymor He's a Villanova grad which could mean the Nova Knicks in 4, if he so decrees. |
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09 May 25 - 09:13 AM (#4222319) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Doug Chadwick Please take a listen to the Senior Gossip Columnist for the Vatican Enquirer: Well, that's 8 minutes of my life I'll never get back. ;-( DC |
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09 May 25 - 11:53 AM (#4222321) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Stilly River Sage His family's life will change dramatically. His brother who lives in Illinois was interviewed by the New York Times; the only part that left a gap in the information was the line "In addition to John and Robert, now Leo, the Prevosts had one other son, who now lives in Florida." Hoping there isn't a rift or the odd one (like a Billy to Jimmy Carter). Does this make him a "Florida man?" (I just finished reading a long piece in The Atlantic about Carl Hiaasen, who writes Florida Man like no one else.) There will be pressure from the media to dish on the new pope, to share what friends and family think he thinks about all sorts of stuff. It probably won't be pretty to look at. (As noted above, he's a White Sox fan, not a Cubs fan.) For starters, Trump has already claimed credit for this pope's choice. Trump welcomes new American-born pope and says he can’t wait to meet him - despite Leo XIV previous criticism |
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09 May 25 - 11:55 AM (#4222322) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Beer That was a great laugh Joe. |
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09 May 25 - 11:58 AM (#4222323) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman ”Trump has already claimed credit for this pope's choice.” So my prediction (08 May 25 - 01:30 PM) came true! |
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09 May 25 - 12:37 PM (#4222326) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Donuel How exactly did the conspiracy to poison the previous Pope and pay off the conclave to pick Trump's inside man work? |
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09 May 25 - 04:54 PM (#4222331) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Helen Well, it might be the opposite of a Trump pick. This article suggests that Pope Leo XIV is following Pope Francis in working towards a more open church. It is worth reading the full article for a glimmer of hope. The Catholic Church had always resisted a North American pope. Is Leo XIV the anti-Trump? "In just a week, Donald Trump has gone from sharing the almost blasphemous image of himself as a pope to posting the uncharacteristically subdued message congratulating Chicago-born cardinal Robert Prevost on his election to the head of the Catholic Church. "Vice-President JD Vance has also been on his best behaviour, posting a message of congratulations, saying: 'I'm sure millions of American Catholics and other Christians will pray for his successful work leading the church.' "Trump is all about 'America First' and his supporters are self-described patriots. And the election of Pope Leo XIV has put one of their fellow citizens at the top of one of the world's oldest institutions for the first time. "But in these deeply fractious ideological times, it is not so simple to suggest all the America First faithful would be happy with this result." ... |
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09 May 25 - 07:58 PM (#4222341) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: JennieG Seen on facebook this morning: "Pope Leo must be one of the Blues Brothers, because he comes from Chicago and he's on a mission from God." |
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11 May 25 - 01:52 PM (#4222396) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: keberoxu The New York Times has articles every day about the conservative majority of United States Catholics, and how Leo XIV is a disappointment to them because he is not conservative enough for their taste. My last Catholic parish, which I loved, was staffed by Dominican friars who were deeply committed to Vatican II and to the Catholic Social Teaching espoused by Leo XIII. So Pope Leo is a pope after their hearts. His fellow cardinals say he is "no pushover" so hopefully he will build on what Pope Francis started. |
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12 May 25 - 11:09 AM (#4222425) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Donuel His friends call him Bob. Something is comforting about Pope Bob. |
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13 May 25 - 11:11 PM (#4222510) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Stilly River Sage So it turns out that the older brother in Florida is a MAGA follower. Not as hard core as some, apparently, but it has been in his Facebook feed, now set to private, and he has said he'll tone it down. The Pope’s Florida Brother, a MAGA Disciple, Plans to ‘Tone It Down’ Louis Prevost’s Facebook posts — no longer publicly viewable — suggest that he has embraced some of the most common complaints and conspiracy theories of the right. You can often find the eldest brother of the Successor of the Prince of the Apostles down at the Twisted Fork restaurant in Port Charlotte, Fla., where, on Honky-Tonk Thursdays, he is most likely boot-scooting along with the rest of the line dancers. There's a bit more to the article, follow the link. |
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14 May 25 - 12:20 AM (#4222513) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Joe Offer I belonged to a parish in conservative Auburn CA for almost 25 years, after living in a less conservative situation in Sacramento for 20 years. But over the 25 years in Auburn, I worked hard to keep my parish from falling into the depths of this MAGA nonsense. The conservatives moved in during COVID, and turned the balance of power. They especially gained a stronghold in the religious education programs. I still taught, but I was more and more under scrutiny. It finally got too uncomfortable to stay, so I moved to a more progressive parish in the next town over. I'm the second Parish Council President who has left the Auburn parish in disgust in the last 5 years. Pope Francis was my Dream Pope, and I think Pope Leo will be almost as good. But the balance of power in the U.S. Catholic Church is conservative, except for a few progressive parishes here and there. |
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15 May 25 - 01:19 AM (#4222531) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Mary G My favorite was John Paul I, who took on the very corrupt and intertwined Vatican and Italian banks and oops he died after 33 days in office. He used to go jogging in a Minnie Mouse t-shirt it has been said. Pope Leo has a Creole ancestry. Maybe he can help us reduce some of the hatred in the world and the US in particular. And he had better go after the sex traffickers of children and others. I am a sucker for conspiracy theories but I think the church, holy mother the church, has been involved. |
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15 May 25 - 04:25 AM (#4222534) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Doug Chadwick I am a sucker for conspiracy theories but I think the church, holy mother the church, has been involved. When an organisation has managed to convince 1.3 to 1.4 billion people that a virgin can give birth, that someone can walk on water and come back from the dead, and that bread and wine changes substance when declarecd sacred by an approved official, conspiracy theories pale into insignificance. DC |
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15 May 25 - 05:36 AM (#4222538) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman The Ultimate Control System, Doug. |
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16 May 25 - 07:37 PM (#4222668) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Joe Offer Doug and Backwoodsman, some of us Catholics are reasonably well-educated. We may not be the literalists you take us to be. |
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16 May 25 - 09:11 PM (#4222672) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Donuel A positive side effect of Covid was a virtual stoppage of mass shootings. A million US deaths from disease was a poor trade off. At the beginning of January 2021, Pope Francis expressed the view that vaccination was a moral obligation because one's own health and life as well as the lives of others were at stake, and that rejecting vaccination was “suicidal denialism”. |
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17 May 25 - 05:48 AM (#4222685) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Doug Chadwick Even the reasonably well-educated, non-literalist Catholics must believe some of it or else they would be atheist/agnostic. It's my guess that if you subtracted all of those from the 1.3 billion figure, there would still be more than enough to outweigh any conspiracy theory. DC |
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17 May 25 - 06:16 AM (#4222687) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman ”Doug and Backwoodsman, some of us Catholics are reasonably well-educated. We may not be the literalists you take us to be.” Statements like that serve to convince me, even more than I already was, of the mind-control that religious systems - not just the Church of Rome - have amassed over the centuries. Doug expressed it much more eloquently than I could. |
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17 May 25 - 07:58 AM (#4222691) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Doug Chadwick Joe, I think you may be reading more into my post than I am trying to say. I am not attacking the Church or anybody's beliefs. Mary G's post of 15 May 25 - 01:19 AM referred to Pope John Paul I .... who took on the very corrupt and intertwined Vatican and Italian banks and oops he died after 33 days in office. ............................... I am a sucker for conspiracy theories but I think the church, holy mother the church, has been involved. I was pointing out that the control that the Church has, both in terms of the number of aherents and in its longevity, means that even the biggest potential scandal is nothing more than a blip, an itch that needs to be scratched. DC |
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18 May 25 - 06:30 PM (#4222815) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: keberoxu The inaugural mass was this enormous outdoor spectacle; I didn't see anything but the photos of it. I would think the pope would be exhausted afterwards. At least there was decent weather, with all those people. |
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18 May 25 - 07:34 PM (#4222819) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Stilly River Sage I heard that J.D. Vance was there in the crowd. Hopefully he got nowhere near the pope. |
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19 May 25 - 02:26 AM (#4222827) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman A less Christian man it’s hard to imagine. Apart from the Fat, Orange, Badly-coiffed Baboon, of course. |
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19 May 25 - 04:18 AM (#4222832) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: The Sandman Pope Francis should be judged by his record, according to Wiki Throughout his papacy, Francis was noted for his humility, emphasis on God's mercy, international visibility, commitment to interreligious dialogue, and concern for the poor, migrants, and refugees |
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19 May 25 - 07:34 AM (#4222843) Subject: RE: Obit: Pope Francis (1936-2025) /Pope Leo XIV From: Backwoodsman ”A less Christian man it’s hard to imagine.” My above comment was in response to SRS’s post and, of course, referred to Vance, not to His Holiness Pope Leo XIV. |