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Folklore: Journeymen

12 Jul 25 - 11:02 PM (#4225555)
Subject: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Today I encountered the term "Journeyman."
It appears to apply to German trades.
Much like USA might view "apprentice."

A good friend, anglo, from South Africa, used the term regarding his time in Canada after arriving in Chicago at a relative's doorstep with $13 in his pocket.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle
He was a successful electrician. A kid from church used the same term for "masonary/bricklayer" ...but he had no "green card" and considered himself safe ... since white-folk that spoke English had no problems ... until his girlfriend, literally threw him down the stairs.

13 Jul 25 - 12:42 AM (#4225556)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST,PHJim

This is what I was expecting to be the topic of this thread.

The Journeymen

I wonder if you're intended discussion belongs in BS/General Discussion Threads.
    I'm going to call this a music thread for now. -Joe Offer-

13 Jul 25 - 03:35 AM (#4225559)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler

Anne Mcaffrey used the description in her Pern Sci-Fi series as a description of a trained artisan, above apprentice level but not yet qualified as a master of their trade. This would appear to be a "common knowledge" description from various sources that I have come across.

Robin

13 Jul 25 - 03:44 AM (#4225560)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST,Ray

Also the title of Ewan MacColl’s strange biography.

13 Jul 25 - 06:29 AM (#4225566)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: MaJoC the Filk

Not sure which sense Ian Anderson meant:

Journeyman night-tripping on the late fantasic
Too late to stop for tea at Gerard's Cross
and hear the soft shoes on the footbridge shuffle
as the wheels turn biting on the midnight frost.
    -- Jethro Tull: "Journeyman", from Heavy Horses

.... but it fits well with the idea of the loneliness of the long-distance commuter.

13 Jul 25 - 08:11 AM (#4225568)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: JennieG

Wasn't there a song recorded by The Corries - "The Roving Journeyman"? Sung to the tune "Red-haired boy", if memory serves me correctly.

13 Jul 25 - 09:37 AM (#4225570)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: Reinhard

1. DT The Roving Journeyman

2. THE ROVING JOURNEYMAN

I am a roaming journeyman, I roam from town to town,
And when I get a job of work I’m willing to sit down.
With my bundle on my shoulder, with my stick all in my hand,
And it’s round the country I will go, like a roaming journeyman.

Now when I get to Brighton Town, the girls they jump for joy,
Saying one unto the other, “There comes the roaming boy.”
One hands to me the bottle, and the other holds the glass,
And the toast goes round the table, “Here’s good luck to the journeyman.”

I cannot think the reason why my love she looks so sly,
I never had any false heart to any young female kind.
I never had a false heart to any young female kind,
But I always went a-roaming for to leave my girl behind.

sung by Tom Willett and Chris Willett on the Willett Family’s 1962 Topic album The Roving Journeymen.

13 Jul 25 - 10:14 AM (#4225574)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST

In Britain a journeyman was someone who had completed his apprenticeship, but was in employ rather than in business for himself.

13 Jul 25 - 12:08 PM (#4225584)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: Big Al Whittle

For several years The Journeymen were a duo who were residents at THe Jolly Porter in Exeter . One of them was a lecturer Exeter University, Ken Penny.
Tony Rose used to sing with them sometimes.

13 Jul 25 - 02:28 PM (#4225589)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: cnd

Journeyman is still used in the US a good deal in construction trades. Working in an adjacent industry, I hear the term fairly frequently. Seems to be especially prevalent among electricians, though plumbing has its fair share of journeymen too. Don't hear it as often for HVAC, though I'm not sure why.

14 Jul 25 - 01:46 AM (#4225597)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST

gargoyle, in Spanish, men who labor during the journey of the sun are called Jornaleros. They are paid at the end of the day.

14 Jul 25 - 06:18 AM (#4225606)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: Jack Campin

That's the same etymology as the English sense - skilled workers but paid by the day rather than having their own business or a permanent contract.

14 Jul 25 - 07:07 PM (#4225659)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: keberoxu

I thought this came from the guilds system.

15 Jul 25 - 02:33 AM (#4225666)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: DaveRo

keberoxu wrote: I thought this came from the guilds system.
I thought so too, probably the Hansa.

I was sceptical about the connection between 'journey' and 'day' but this
Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master: The Medieval Guild
suggests there is a common root:
An original meaning of the word “journey” was “a day” and a Journeyman was someone who performed work for a day and then moved on, as it were.
And I'm curious about most recent Guest's phrase "during the journey of the sun". Is it a literal translation of some Spanish idiom? A jornaleros could just be a 'day labourer'.

15 Jul 25 - 02:52 AM (#4225667)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: JennieG

'Jour' is the French word for 'day'.

15 Jul 25 - 10:05 AM (#4225693)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST

DaveRo - Poetic license

15 Jul 25 - 11:45 AM (#4225695)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch

The practice (as opposed to the glossary) is much older than the guild system. Older than the letter "J." Which is part of why "jornalero" sounds so very different from the English worker.

And the clerk's daily log of parts and labour was a "journal."

15 Jul 25 - 07:16 PM (#4225715)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GUEST,paperback

Or . . .

The root of apprentice is apprehed
When you get it you freely journey
--
gargoyle, American building trade Unions all have apprenticeship programs leading Journeyman status.

16 Jul 25 - 01:48 AM (#4225726)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: GerryM

In American baseball, a journeyman is a player who is good enough to get a job in the major leagues, but not good enough for any one team to keep him very long, so he goes from team to team to team. See, e.g., https://bleacherreport.com/articles/680524-mlb-journey-men-10-players-who-have-worn-many-many-hats

19 Jul 25 - 05:03 AM (#4225876)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Journeymen
From: Tattie Bogle

As PHJim suggested, I thought this thread was going to be about the American group, The Journeymen, who recorded “500 Miles” back in 1961. I sang the French version (Richard Anthony) just last night as it happens.