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14 Feb 00 - 09:38 PM (#178414) Subject: Another "Black is the Color...Love's Hair" tune From: GUEST,jewell@acs.ucalgary.ca "The Golden Encyclopeadia of Folk Music" claims (and some web sites repeat it) that there is "another English ballad with somewhat similar tune (but with entirely different words)" to "Black is the Color of my True Love's Hair." However, I cannot find it, or any other reference to it, on the Web. Reason: a claimed Canadian Folksong tune seems to be similar and I wonder if they might have a common origin. |
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14 Feb 00 - 09:40 PM (#178416) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Sorcha (Wonder if that's 'cause it's a CROW?):) Seriously, no I don't know. |
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14 Feb 00 - 10:30 PM (#178449) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Crowhugger Hey, wot's that dumping on crows! ;-) |
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14 Feb 00 - 11:41 PM (#178513) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Harold W Are you sure it isn't "Black is the Color of my Love's True Hair?" |
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14 Feb 00 - 11:48 PM (#178522) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Mbo IS this a song about prizefighters? --Mbo |
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14 Feb 00 - 11:49 PM (#178523) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: alison I have heard this sung.. can't remember all fo it though
Black is the colour of my true love's eyes
yellow is the colour of my true love's teeth slainte alison |
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14 Feb 00 - 11:53 PM (#178530) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Mbo This is starting to sound a lot like "Colours" by Donovan! --Mbo |
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15 Feb 00 - 12:16 AM (#178541) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Sorcha Crowhugger--No, I would never really run down the Crow/Little Brother. I love them, I feed them, and an artificial one lives above my music table. |
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15 Feb 00 - 09:49 AM (#178721) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Crowhugger Sorcha, I feel so much better now. Thanks for clearing that up ;-) |
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15 Feb 00 - 06:49 PM (#178989) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Liz the Squeak It was the 'colours' by Donovan, but it was indeed a much older song before he mangled, sorry, recorded it.... basically is was a song of praise for how beautiful the lady looked before she got up and put her makeup on..... We always knew it as 'Red was the colour of my true loves' eyes, in the evening, when she's p***ed.....' Yellow is the colour of my true loves' face, in the morning, hungover bad...... LTS |
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15 Feb 00 - 06:53 PM (#178994) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: wysiwyg GUEST,jewell@acs.ucalgary.ca: From the tone of the replies already posted, I am wondering if you are already an active Mudcatter I just haven't met yet. In the event that it not the case, see the long note I am sending to your personal e-mail! |
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15 Feb 00 - 07:48 PM (#179036) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Mbo Oh, don't say mangled! I love Donovan and that song! --Mbo
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16 Feb 00 - 04:29 PM (#179573) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: paddymac Is Black the True Color of My Love's Hair? |
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26 Jul 02 - 04:17 PM (#755126) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: GUEST,scathy@peoplepc.com I would appreciate the lyrics of an Appalachian folk song by the name of Black is the color of my true love's hair. |
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26 Jul 02 - 04:38 PM (#755142) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dead Horse What's this about artificial Crows? Is it a wooden indian? |
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26 Jul 02 - 04:38 PM (#755143) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: MMario Click on this link for the lyrics from the Digital Tradition. url=http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=665
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26 Jul 02 - 06:09 PM (#755172) Subject: Lyr Add: THE SAILOR'S SWEETHEART (from V Randolph) From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) According to Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 1, p. 297, "Black is the Color...." is a version of "The Sailors' Sweetheart," aka "Moment's River Side," "The Lost Lover," etc., and is an English song. The first American mention is in Belden, 1910, Song-Ballads and other Popular Poetry. Here is version A of "The Sailor's Sweetheart" from Randolph (coll. 1928, perhaps contaminated by the John Jacob Niles-Jean Ritchie creation: Lyr. Add: THE SAILOR'S SWEETHEART Black is the color of my true love's hair, His cheeks are as red as th' roses fair. If he would return it would give me joy, For none will I have but my sweet sailor boy. Oh, mother, oh mother, go build me a boat, That over th' ocean I may float, An' ev'ry ship that I pass by Where I may enquire for my sweet sailor boy. She built her a boat an' she floated on the main, She spied three ships just out of Spain, She ask of the captain as he drew nigh, Of him she did enquire of her sweet sailor boy. Fair lady, fair lady, that never can be, For he was drownded in the gulf sea, Near by Rock Isle as we pass by, There's where we lost your sweet sailor boy. She stove her vessel against the rock, An' I thought this lady's heart was broke, She wrung her hands an' tore her hair, Just like some lady in great dispair. Go bring me a chair an' set me down, An' a pen and ink to write it down, At the end of every line she dropped a tear, At the end of the verse cried oh my dear. There's only one thing that I crave, Is a marble tomp stone on my grave, And on my breast a mournin' dove To show the world I died for love. With music. Note resemblance at end to "A tavern in the town." @ballad @lost love, @traditional |
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26 Jul 02 - 06:22 PM (#755176) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) A version of the "Sailor's Sweetheart" was coll. by Campbell and Sharp, 1917, "English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians," and by Cox 1925, Folk Songs of the South." I will check the Cox later. |
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26 Jul 02 - 09:10 PM (#755252) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) This song has many names, including Sweet William, Sweet Willie, The Lost Lover, Down by the River Side, The Sailor Sweetheart, The Sailor and His Bride, Moment's River Side, The Forsaken Lover, The Sailor Boy, The Faithful Sailor Boy, etc. (Cox, Randolph,Brown). The song is difficult to look up because the titles overlap with those of other (unrelated and related) songs. There are others that speak of a lover's black curls, etc. They all seem to vary around "The Sailor's Sweetheart, given above. Scathy, I could give you other Appalachian-Ozark versions if you want them. |
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26 Jul 02 - 10:07 PM (#755266) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: michaelr WHITE is the colour of my true love's bum... |
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26 Jul 02 - 11:17 PM (#755292) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Version in the DT, "Black is the color of my true love's hair"- is this the Campbell-Sharp collected version of 1916, as stated, or is it the Niles-Ritchie arrangement? |
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26 Jul 02 - 11:30 PM (#755295) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) There are five versions in the Max Hunter Collection. I especially like "Willie Boy," as sung by Mrs. Lucy Quigley of Arkansas. (Also known as Down by the River Side). Willie Boy |
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26 Jul 02 - 11:37 PM (#755297) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) If you are not familiar with the Max Hunter Collection, Real Audio is given, along with sheet music. |
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27 Jul 02 - 07:17 AM (#755417) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Malcolm Douglas Re. the DT set; that's a good question; the notes are not exactly a model of clarity in this case. We discussed the song last year in this thread: black is the color?from where?; it's a pity, really, that "scathy" chose to revive this rather older thread instead. The DT file appears to be a transcription from a recording by Jean Ritchie. It isn't exactly the set that Sharp got from Mrs. Lizzie Roberts at Hot Springs, N.C., in 1916, but, according to Jean, is likely based on it. Of Mrs. Roberts' six verses, this has four; verses 1, 4, 6, 3 and 1 again. The tune has mutated but is recognisable. Niles' tune is recognisably based on it (or on a similar variant) but rather changed. Besides some background from Jean, there are various useful links in the other discussion, including a sound clip of Niles singing his melody, and an example at Hunter which is also recognisably a variant of the same tune. The original source of the song remains a mystery, though it was found twice in Ireland in the 1970s (Joe Heaney and Sean 'ac Donncha); it seems not unlikely that these are imports from America rather than traditional in Ireland; certainly the melody, Dark is the Colour of My True Love's Hair, nowadays regularly described as Irish, was actually learned by Willie Clancy from Jean Ritchie, at one or two removes. |
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27 Jul 02 - 02:49 PM (#755541) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Uncle_DaveO The "Black is the color" involving the girl distraught at the drowning of her lover is very closely echoed in "My Sweet Pinery Boy", a lumberman's song about a lumberjack drowned on the river, which I have in an old 10 inch LP from Folkways. Dave Oesterreich |
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28 Jul 02 - 01:13 PM (#755951) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: dick greenhaus There are two versions in DT- the second one is directly from Sharp, and is so attributed. I'll have to get around to putting in JJ Niles' version (I'm not sure why he's so violently excoriated for copyrighting it; Oscar Brand copyroghted Cindy, Oscar Brand copyrighted Yankee Doodle...a long standing, if dubious practice. |
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28 Jul 02 - 03:13 PM (#755990) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Malcolm Douglas Ah, the color/colour distinction; I was forgetting. I've referred to both copies in other discussions, and should have remembered. After a while, though, when the same subjects come up time and again, it's hard to remember what I've said and what I haven't. If only the search engine were updated! The two DT files are: BLACK IS THE COLOUR The Lizzie Roberts set, correctly attributed as Dick says. BLACK IS THE COLOR OF MY TRUE LOVE'S HAIR The one Dicho was talking about, I think, to which MMario provided a link earlier on. The notes are not a little ambiguous. The relationship of the song to the Sailor's/Soldier's Life group is complex; the fact of shared verses in itself proves nothing, but variants in both groups have recognisably related tunes, which would suggest, perhaps, that Black is the Colo[u]r may derive from the other, having lost its narrative components and picked up floating verses from elsewhere to bulk it out again. Or, of course, it may not. The problem with Niles is not (from my point of view at least) that he copyrighted the song, but that he claimed to have written the tune; the implication being that he made it from scratch, which, on examination, he obviously didn't, though it's certainly fair to say that he modified it significantly and that, in that form, he had a perfect right to claim it. The lack of proper information muddies the waters with so much of traditional music (particularly where the tradition and the revival share boundaries) that I do find it hard to forgive an influential person like Niles who, not to put too fine a point on it, told lies about his material and -probably- sources. The result is that it's now risky to believe anything he said that can't be checked, and a valuable resource is rendered largely useless. He was far from being the first and he won't be the last, but he's certainly a case in point. |
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28 Jul 02 - 04:13 PM (#756007) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: dick greenhaus Of course, Woody Gutrhrie's copyrights are for Words and Music of all his songs. The subject of Fakelore is one ripe for investigation. |
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28 Jul 02 - 10:36 PM (#756159) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Little Hawk It's strange how many of the old trad songs have a hero named "Willie", considering the way that word is often used now in the U.K. Perhaps it did not have the same phallic connotations back then... - LH |
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28 Jul 02 - 10:45 PM (#756161) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: WKG How is it that nobody has yet mentioned the Smothers Brothers' (then) shocking foray into miscegenation: Black is the color of my true love. |
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29 Jul 02 - 05:03 PM (#756571) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Jacob B The Smothers Brothers version that I know is very different. It goes: Black, black, black is the color of my love's true hair Though her tresses are as red as a rose Black, black, black is the color of my love's true hair And only her hairdresser knows Does she or doesn't she Only her hairdresser knows! |
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02 Aug 02 - 04:54 PM (#758944) Subject: Lyr Add: DARK IS THE COLOR OF MY SWEETHEART'S HAIR From: John Minear I wasn't sure where to post this, but since this thread seemed to be focusing on "Black is the Color of My True Love's Hair" rather than "eye", perhaps this is as good a place as any. The version, which goes back at least to Lizzie Roberts of Hot Springs, is a favorite of mine. In the early 1950's Maud Karpeles made a return trip to the Southern Appalachians to see if she could find any of the singers that she and Cecil Sharp had visited earlier. This time she took a recording machine. She found Lizzie Roberts and recorded her singing "Black is the Color". Her collection is in the Library of Congress. Some of it was released commercially on cassette. If you can find them, Lizzie Roberts' song is on BLACK IS THE COLOUR, by Folktracks Cassettes (UK), 1980. I was able to obtain this through Interlibrary Loan. The second tape is CUMBERLAND GAP.
In August of 1929, Mellinger Henry collected a version of this song from Mary E. King, in Gatlinburg Tennessee. He published it in his FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN HIGHLANDS,p. 266. There is no tune.
Dark is the color of my sweetheart's hair;
My dear sweetheart, my harmless love,
I go to cry, to mourn, to weep;
Yes, you are all for this to blame;
Many an hour have I spent with you;
But if it be God's will, I'd rather
As you do pass me by so brave, This was also known, according to Henry, as "My Dear Sweetheart."
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11 May 13 - 03:21 AM (#3513792) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: GUEST,waslookingforthissongtoo Black is the color of my true love's eyes Darker than a starless night When I'm drowning and feeling blind My true love will hold me tight The song is "Black" by The Shroud |
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12 May 13 - 01:04 AM (#3514090) Subject: RE: Black is the Color of My True Love's Eye From: Stilly River Sage Interesting that what was old is new again. The Shroud, a gothic rock band. |