To Thread - Forum Home

The Mudcat Café TM
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=18386
15 messages

Origins: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch

20 Feb 00 - 03:32 PM (#181750)
Subject: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: GUEST,InOBU -On wifes comp.

Anyone have the words and cords to Jack Orion as played by Bert Jansch - for my old pal Ralph - and any one know any good folk clubs near Devizes in Wiltshire?
All the best
Larry

Also see Jack O'Rian the Fiddler

20 Feb 00 - 04:26 PM (#181766)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Malcolm Douglas

If that's the same version that he recorded with Pentangle on Cruel Sister, then it's a bit long -26 verses- to type in at present, but I'll do it in a day or three if some brave soul doesn't get there first.  Jack Orion is the title given to the song by A.L. Lloyd, who partly re-wrote the old ballad Glasgerion and put a new tune to it.  Pentangle's recording uses Lloyd's tune (he isn't precise as to whether he wrote it or co-opted it from somewhere else) but they seem to have been unaware of his involvement.  Their text seems to have been worked up from versions of Glasgerion.  Meanwhile, there is a version -without a tune- on the DT, here, called Glenkindie, as recorded by McColl and Seeger.

Malcolm

20 Feb 00 - 10:08 PM (#181938)
Subject: Lyr Add: JACK ORION (Martin Carthy)
From: Garry Gillard

Here's my transcription (with errors) of what Martin Carthy sings.

JACK ORION

Sung by Martin Carthy on Martin Carthy & Dave Swarbrick's “But Two Came By” LP (and the CD re-release).

Jack Orion was as good fiddler
As ever fiddled on a string,
And he could drive young women mad
By the tune his wires would sing.

But he would fiddle the fish out of salt water,
Water from bare marble stone,
Or the milk from out of a maiden's breast,
Though baby she had none.

And there he played in the castle hall,
And there he played them fast asleep,
Except it was for the young countess
And for love she stayed awake.

And first he played them a slow slow air,
And then he played it brisk and gay,
And it's “O dear love, be kind ... (?)”
And the lady she did say.

And the day has dawned and the cocks have crown
And flapped their wings so wide.
“It's you must come up to my chamber there
And lie down by my side.”

So he lapped his fiddle in a cloth of green
And he stole out on mystic toe (??),
And he's off back to his young boy Tom
As fast as he could go.

“Ere the day has dawned and the cocks have crown
And flapped their wings so wide,
I'm bid to go up to that lady's door
And stretch out by her side.”

“Lie down, lie down, my good master.
And here's a blanket to your kind (?).
I'll waken you in as good a time
As any cock in the land.”

Oh, Tom took the fiddle into his hand,
And he fiddled and he sang for half an hour
Until he played him fast asleep
And he's off to the lady's bower.

And when he come to the countess' door
He twirled so softly at the pin,
And the lady true to her promise
Rose up and let him in.

He did not take that lady gay
To bolster nor to bed,
But down upon the hard cold bedroom floor
Right soon he had her laid.

And neither did he kiss her when he came
Nor when from her he did go,
But in at the lady's bedroom window
The moon like a coal did glow.

“Oh, ragged are your stockings, love,
And stubbly is your cheek and chin,
And tousled is that yellow hair
That I saw late yestre'en.”

“Me stockings belong to my boy Tom,
But they were the first came to my hand,
And the wind did tousle my yellow hair
As I road over the land.”

Tom took the fiddle into his hand
And he fiddled and he played so saucily,
And he's off back to his master's house
As fast as a ... could ... (?).

“When up? When up, my good master (?)
Why snore you there so loud?
For there is not a cock in all this land
But has flapped his wings and crowed.”

Jack Orion took the fiddle into his hand,
And he fiddled and he played so merrily,
And he's off away to the lady's house
As fast as a ... could ... (?).

And when he come to the lady's door,
He twirled so softly at the ring
“O my dear, it's your true love.
Rise up and let me in.”

She said, “Surely you didn't leave behind
A golden brooch nor a velvet glove.
Or are you returned back again
To taste more of my love?”

Jack Orion he swore a bloody oath
By oak by ash by bitter thorn:
“Lady, I never was in this room
Since the day that I was born.”

“Oh, then it was your own boy Tom
That cruelly has beguiled me,
And woe that the blood of that ruffian boy
Should spring in my body.”

Jack Orion took off to his own house
Saying, “Tom, my boy, come here to me.”
And he hanged that boy from his own gatepost
As high as the willow tree.
^^
It's on the Web at

http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/~gillard/watersons/jack.html

Gaz

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 25-Jan-02.

21 Feb 00 - 06:00 PM (#182403)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Susanne (skw)

Some additions:

Verse 4: And it's oh dear love be kind be kind, the lady she did say

Verse 6: So he lapped his fiddle in a cloth of green and he stole out on his tiptoe

Verse 8: Lie down, lie down, my good master, and here's a blanket to your hand

Verse 15: And he's off back to his master's house as fast as the coal could gae

Verse 16: Then up, then up, my good master, why snore you there so loud for there

Verse 17: And he's off away to the lady's house as fast as the coal could gae

Susanne

21 Feb 00 - 11:38 PM (#182563)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Malcolm Douglas

It's actually, And "Oh, dear love," behind her hand/ The lady she did say -not at all easy to tell on Carthy's recording, but much clearer on Lloyd's.  "As fast as the coal could gae" is ingenious and a rather nice image, too, but it's really just as fast as go could he.  

Malcolm

22 Feb 00 - 07:55 AM (#182677)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: InOBU

You all are great. I prefer the Martin Carthy version, myself, but Ralph likes the slow ballads.
All the best
Larry

22 Feb 00 - 07:05 PM (#183019)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Susanne (skw)

Malcolm, maybe I'm wrong, of course, but I thought I heard that line quite clearly, and I took 'coal' as referring to a black horse. Who'll prove me wrong? :-) - Susanne

22 Feb 00 - 08:41 PM (#183052)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Malcolm Douglas

Hmmm...all I can say in defence of my reading of that line is that Carthy never uses Scots pronounciations (he feels that it's inappropriate unless it's your natural accent) and so would have sung "go" instead of "gae", and there's no mention of a "coal-black" horse anywhere in the song: I've never come across "coal" used on its own in reference to horse-colour.  And, of course, the fact that I sincerely believe myself to be right! ;-)

Malcolm

23 Feb 00 - 04:30 PM (#183647)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Susanne (skw)

So I've noticed! Anyway, I'll have to listen to it again - trouble is, the songs I HAVE to listen to are piling up ... Anyone ready to take over my job??? - Susanne

24 Feb 00 - 04:23 PM (#184225)
Subject: Lyr Add: JACK ORION (Bert Jansch)
From: Malcolm Douglas

Now, as promised, the LONG version that Bert Jansch recorded with Pentangle; it looks as if they have taken most of A.L. Lloyd's re-write and expanded it with modernised sections from Glasgerion:

Jack Orion was as good a fiddler
As ever fiddled on a string;
He could make young women mad
To the tune his fiddle would sing.

He could fiddle the fish out of salt water
Or water from a marble stone
Or the milk out of a maiden's breast
Though baby she'd got none.

He's taken his fiddle into his hand,
He's fiddled and he's sung;
And oft he's fiddled unto the King,
Who never thought it long.

As he sat fiddling in the castle hall,
He's played them all so sound asleep;
All but for the young princess,
And for love she stayed awake.

At first he played them a slow grave tune,
And then a gay one flew;
And many's the sigh and loving word
That passed between these two.

"Come to my bower, sweet Jack Orion
When all men are at rest;
As I am a lady true to my word,
Thou shalt be a welcome guest."

He's lapped his fiddle in a cloth of green
A glad man, Lord, was he;
Then he's run off to his own house
Says, "Tom come hither unto me.

When day has dawned and the cocks have crown
And flapped their wings so wide,
I am bidden to that lady's door
To stretch out by her side."

"Lie down in your bed, dear master,
And sleep as long as you may;
I'll keep good watch and awaken you
Three hours before 'tis day."

But he rose up, that worthless lad
His master's clothes did don;
A collar he cast about his neck
He seemed a gentleman.

Well he didn't take that lady gay
To bolster nor to bed,
But down upon the bower floor
He quickly had her laid.

And he neither kissed her when he came,
Nor when from her he did go,
And in and out of her window,
The moon like a coal did glow.

"Ragged are your stockings, love,
Stubbly is your cheek and chin
And tangled is that yellow hair
That I saw yestere'en."

"The stockings belong to my boy Tom;
They're the first come to my hand.
The wind it tangled my yellow hair
As I rode o'er the land."

Tom took the fiddle into his hand,
So saucy there he sang;
Then he's off back to his master's house
As fast as he could run.

"Wake up, wake up, my good master;
I fear 'tis almost dawn.
Wake up, wake up, the cock has crowed;
'Tis time that you were gone."

Then quickly rose up Jack Orion,
Put on his cloak and shoon
And cast a collar about his neck;
He was a lord's true son.

And when he come to the lady's bower,
He lightly rattled the pin;
The lady was true to her word,
She rose and let him in.

"Or whether you have left with me
Your bracelet or your glove?
Or are you returned back again
To know more of my love?"

Jack Orion swore a bloody oath
By oak and ash and bitter thorn,
Saying, "Lady, I never was in your house
Since the day that I was born!"

"Oh then it was your young footpage
That has so cruelly beguiled me
And woe that the blood of the ruffian lad
Should spring in my body!"
Then she pulled forth a little sharp knife
That hung down at her knee.

O'er her white feet the red blood ran,
Or ever a hand could stay;
And dead she lay on her bower floor
At the dawning of the day.

Jack Orion ran to his own house,
Saying, "Tom, my boy, come here to me;
Come hither now and I'll pay your fee
And well paid you shall be.

If I had killed a man tonight,
Tom, I would tell it thee;
But if I have taken no life tonight,
Tom, thou hast taken three."

Then he pulled out his bright brown sword
And dried it on his sleeve,
And he smote off that vile lad's head,
And asked for no man's leave.

He set the sword's point to his breast,
The pommel to a stone;
Through the falseness of that lying lad
These three lives were all gone.

Malcolm

26 Feb 00 - 03:06 AM (#185192)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Garry Gillard

I've followed Malcolm (finally) on my webpage: thanks to both you and Susanne for that very helpful exchange!

http://hum2mac1.murdoch.edu.au/watersons/jack.html

cheers, Garry Gillard

26 Feb 00 - 09:03 AM (#185232)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: InOBU

I expect when Ralph gets back to Wiltshire, he is going to join the Cat. His thanks to all,
Larry

12 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM (#295593)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Garry Gillard

My version of Martin Carthy's version is now here.

Garry

23 Aug 04 - 03:40 PM (#1254691)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Phil Cooper

Was looking for words to Jack Orion for a ballad workshop we're doing in a couple weeks and came across this. In direct reference to Bert Jansch's version of Jack Orion vs Pentangle's: On Bert's solo album of the same title, the song doesn't end with the execution of Tom and a double suicide, but I believe ends with Tom hanging. It's been awhile since I listened to the Bert album. I prefer his solo (with John Renbourn playing second guitar) to what Pentangle does (though I like the electric guitar solo on that). I prefer the Carthy/Swarb version of all of them.

23 Aug 04 - 03:43 PM (#1254693)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Jack Orion - Bert Jansch
From: Phil Cooper

On the subject of what Jansch plays on guitar: I would speculate (but could be way wrong), that this is one of his DADGAD arrangements. He seems to be playing riffs around the melody rather than chords. I wouldn't have any idea what to say the chords would be. If noodling around in the tuning you could say, when if doubt play D, unless you want the modal C for that part of the melody.