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16 Mar 00 - 08:24 PM (#196425) Subject: Brogue Dictionary Required From: John in Brisbane I know that a lot of singers have trouble with older Irish and particularly Scottish songs because the version of the English language used is hard to decipher and/or pronounce. Is anyone aware of a concise book related to this, or a compendium within a publication? I'm not necessarily chasing a tome on this, but rather a folk-singers guide. While this may be heresy to some it would also enpower performers to communicate better with audiences - if they wish to modernise the lyrics that's their choice. Regards, John |
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16 Mar 00 - 08:34 PM (#196433) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: Malcolm Douglas For Scots, Chambers Scots Dictionary is very useful. Chambers 20th Century Dictionarycontains a lot of the same material. It's always better to "translate" into a form a person is comfortable with rather than attempt to sing a song in a language or dialect that they don't really understand. Malcolm |
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16 Mar 00 - 08:48 PM (#196440) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: Irish sergeant I agree Malcolm. That is very sound advice. Also you run the risk of offending Irish or Scottish members in your audience if they misunderstand your intent and believe you're making fun rather than music. The tomes Malcolm recommends should be more than adequate. However if you want to get a feel for it Robert Burns wrote in Highland dialect and his poetry should give you fair insight to the Scots dialect. For the irish side of things i recommend you listen to see what the Irish folk singers are doing. I particularily recommend Christy Moore's stuff It's available on Green Linnet Records or his earlier work when he sang with Planxty, Reguards Neil |
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16 Mar 00 - 10:29 PM (#196529) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: pastorpest The Wordsworth Poetry Library's "The Works of Robert Burns" has an excellent 17 page glossary which has been adequate for me. The book which is usually inexpensive, I paid $5 Canadian, about $3 US, is a good reference for checking Burns lyrics as well. |
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17 Mar 00 - 01:38 AM (#196621) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: John in Brisbane Thanks to Malcom, Neil and PP for the references. I haven't tried the dictionaries yet - I'm still having trouble locating the exact Burns boof as nominated by PP. Was the title you gave close enough to exact? Do you have an author/editor's name and/or publication date please. My serach through a couple of major libraries here has drawn a blank. Regards, John |
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17 Mar 00 - 08:18 AM (#196698) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: Scabby Douglas For more recent Scots songs I heartily recommend a Glasgow Glossary called "The Patter" by Michael Munro.. BTW... Burns wrote in the Scots language often known as "Lallans" - Lowlands - i.e. not Highlands... It is often said that the English spoken in the Highlands is less dialectical than most places in the UK, largely because English was such a late arrival to the region.. I agree on the need for a concise glossary. There are some words that are no longer used in Scots, or specific words used to describe farming tools, or occupations that no longer exist. If you need a specific word translated, try me... Cheers M'Dears... P.S. in recent Glasgow a Chanty is a chamberpot.. so a chantywrassler is someone who umm handles chamberpots a lot... StevenC
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17 Mar 00 - 05:33 PM (#196934) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: pastorpest Hi, John in Brisbane! Book Title: The Works of Robert Burns Published 1994 by Wordsworth Editions Ltd. Cumberland House, Crib Street, Ware, Hertfordshire SG12 9ET ISBN 1-85326-415-6 I purchased the book at Chapters which has a near strangle hold, unfortuneately, on book sales in Canada. Best of luck in finding a copy: it should not be difficult. |
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18 Mar 00 - 07:12 AM (#197140) Subject: RE: Help: Brogue Dictionary Required From: John in Brisbane Thanks PP. Regards, John |